Georgia

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Some day you're going to have to ask yourself uncomfortable questions

Will NEVER happen. Ever.

[dgies9156]

At the Board's indulgence, may I raise a few points for consideration:

1) Defunding the Police Departments -- Are you people nuts? Change the police, "yes!" Change hiring practices, "yes!" Change use of deadly force policies, "yes!" Define what you want from a police department: ABSOLUTELY! But if society defunds police departments, it is the neighborhoods most riddled by violence and crime that will hurt the most. Plus, this is not as easy as it sounds. Communities have agreements with police unions so defunding the police department may mean older squad cars more prone to breaking down (which means fewer officers on the streets), poorer equipment or inability to develop and implement the programs we want.

2) More social spending -- OK, we've spent trillions nationally to alleviate suffering. The 1965 War on Poverty promulgated by President Lyndon B. Johnson has mushroomed into massive spending on just about everything imaginable. Sure, we have billions in annual spending on social services, but we have seen President Johnson's noble efforts to contain poverty mushroom into massive federal and state bureaucracies. What do those who argue for this think will be different this time? Do you think federal and state bureaucracies will go away? How much of every federal social service dollar do you think would reach those really in need?

If I thought for one minute more government fiscal intervention to alleviate racism, uplift suffering folks and ensure equal opportunity for everyone truly would work, I'd support it in a minute. I truly would. But the fact that we're having these discussions 55 years after the enactment of landmark civil rights laws tells me we have to go in a very different direction.

The courts need to be there. People need to change. But we will not succeed in legislating a change in what's in people's hearts.

[The Sultan]

The War on Poverty worked. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/08/24/the-war-on-poverty-worked-the-real-us-poverty-rate-is-4-8/#4b2e5c981a38

"Bureaucracy" (in other words "decent paying jobs") is a small price to pay for that.  Furthermore your real, effective tax rate has hardly changed in the meantime.

[MU82]

At the Board's indulgence, may I raise a few points for consideration:

1) Defunding the Police Departments -- Are you people nuts? Change the police, "yes!" Change hiring practices, "yes!" Change use of deadly force policies, "yes!" Define what you want from a police department: ABSOLUTELY! But if society defunds police departments, it is the neighborhoods most riddled by violence and crime that will hurt the most. Plus, this is not as easy as it sounds. Communities have agreements with police unions so defunding the police department may mean older squad cars more prone to breaking down (which means fewer officers on the streets), poorer equipment or inability to develop and implement the programs we want.

2) More social spending -- OK, we've spent trillions nationally to alleviate suffering. The 1965 War on Poverty promulgated by President Lyndon B. Johnson has mushroomed into massive spending on just about everything imaginable. Sure, we have billions in annual spending on social services, but we have seen President Johnson's noble efforts to contain poverty mushroom into massive federal and state bureaucracies. What do those who argue for this think will be different this time? Do you think federal and state bureaucracies will go away? How much of every federal social service dollar do you think would reach those really in need?

If I thought for one minute more government fiscal intervention to alleviate racism, uplift suffering folks and ensure equal opportunity for everyone truly would work, I'd support it in a minute. I truly would. But the fact that we're having these discussions 55 years after the enactment of landmark civil rights laws tells me we have to go in a very different direction.

The courts need to be there. People need to change. But we will not succeed in legislating a change in what's in people's hearts.

1) I am not for defunding the police -- or at least what most on the right think of when they hear "defund." Nor is Biden. Nor are many Senate or House candidates or governors that I've read about. A few communities might try something extreme, the way Camden NJ did (and, so far at least, VERY SUCCESSFULLY), but it would be very few. For most folks who actually will be running things, the changes will be more akin to what you have talked about. "Defund" probably will end up being a more effective political rallying cry for Republicans than for Democrats.

2) I am not knowledgeable enough on this subject - nor are most Scoopers, I reckon - to come up with concrete dollar figures or exact programs on which to allocate them. I will throw this out there, though: Every time there is a mass murder by a domestic terrorist, the GOP says, "It's a mental health issue, not a gun issue" ... but not only have they avoided allocating more resources to mental health, they often have taken away resources to fund other stuff that matters more to them.

No, my brother, you can't legislate change in people's hearts. And I'd be very interested in hearing about the "different direction" you think we should go.

However, I do think you can make policy that will, at least in small ways, chip away at systemic racism. The First Step Act, which passed in a bipartisan vote and which the Kardashians got Trump to sign, was a good piece of legislation. In NC, laws are being worked on that would change the outrageously unfair bail system now used just about everywhere. (People with money walk, but get those without money get incarcerated, even though they were arrested for the exact same offense.) Many states are trying to change voting laws so that voters of color will not be disenfranchised. And now there is considerable support for the very kind of police reforms you seem to be in favor of.

Stuff like that. One step at a time. Chip away at it.

Haters will always hate. Right here on Scoop, there are those who think "reverse racism" is worse than actual racism, who think Obama's election "proves" there is no systemic racism, who want to avoid even learning about what systemic racism means, etc.

But I do believe there are things we can do as Americans, working together, to help.

[dgies9156]

1) I am not for defunding the police -- or at least what most on the right think of when they hear "defund." Nor is Biden. Nor are many Senate or House candidates or governors that I've read about. A few communities might try something extreme, the way Camden NJ did (and, so far at least, VERY SUCCESSFULLY), but it would be very few. For most folks who actually will be running things, the changes will be more akin to what you have talked about. "Defund" probably will end up being a more effective political rallying cry for Republicans than for Democrats.

2) I am not knowledgeable enough on this subject - nor are most Scoopers, I reckon - to come up with concrete dollar figures or exact programs on which to allocate them. I will throw this out there, though: Every time there is a mass murder by a domestic terrorist, the GOP says, "It's a mental health issue, not a gun issue" ... but not only have they avoided allocating more resources to mental health, they often have taken away resources to fund other stuff that matters more to them.

No, my brother, you can't legislate change in people's hearts. And I'd be very interested in hearing about the "different direction" you think we should go.

However, I do think you can make policy that will, at least in small ways, chip away at systemic racism. The First Step Act, which passed in a bipartisan vote and which the Kardashians got Trump to sign, was a good piece of legislation. In NC, laws are being worked on that would change the outrageously unfair bail system now used just about everywhere. (People with money walk, but get those without money get incarcerated, even though they were arrested for the exact same offense.) Many states are trying to change voting laws so that voters of color will not be disenfranchised. And now there is considerable support for the very kind of police reforms you seem to be in favor of.

Stuff like that. One step at a time. Chip away at it.

Haters will always hate. Right here on Scoop, there are those who think "reverse racism" is worse than actual racism, who think Obama's election "proves" there is no systemic racism, who want to avoid even learning about what systemic racism means, etc.

But I do believe there are things we can do as Americans, working together, to help.

Brother MU, you and I are at different points in the political spectrum, but we are not far apart on this. Small moves can make big differences. For example, even in our home, my wife and I one evening after this started raised a series of "what if" questions about race that basically allowed us in our private conversations to explore where we need to change (and both of us are pretty liberal on how we think we should treat each other)

Sample question we discussed: "What if a couple of a different race with teenagers moved into the house next door?" Would we (a) Embrace them, bring them into a close-knit group of friends, have them over for dinner and welcome them into our lives; (b) Be friendly but distant; or, (c) Ignore them and even look for faults. Real question, real life example for some people in our community. Possibly for us in the future.

Another point, here in Chicago (I'm back for the summer and fall) what is our television news saying about the local African American Community? In our house, NBC5 tends to be the news choice (the "Lovely Allison News") at 6 p.m., and 10 p.m. In a 13-14 minute news hole, about 11-12 minutes are shootings, violence, fires, car accidents, robberies and thefts. The Lovely Allison makes her faces and talks about how tragic it is, but here you have a Caucasian woman and her Caucasian partner bringing you the nightly crime report. The vast majority of what they report comes from either the West Side or South Side or the inner-ring suburbs that are often predominantly African-American.

We're addicted to crime news here and our TV producers know it generates viewers. It's also got great visuals and someone can stand out in front of a squad car or nasty crime scene and talk to Police. "It's sooooo sad," says the Lovely Allison as she moves to the next crime story. Maybe we need to rethink TV news as one means of changing the feeling too many people have.

[Hards Alumni]

Brother MU, you and I are at different points in the political spectrum, but we are not far apart on this. Small moves can make big differences. For example, even in our home, my wife and I one evening after this started raised a series of "what if" questions about race that basically allowed us in our private conversations to explore where we need to change (and both of us are pretty liberal on how we think we should treat each other)

Sample question we discussed: "What if a couple of a different race with teenagers moved into the house next door?" Would we (a) Embrace them, bring them into a close-knit group of friends, have them over for dinner and welcome them into our lives; (b) Be friendly but distant; or, (c) Ignore them and even look for faults. Real question, real life example for some people in our community. Possibly for us in the future.

Another point, here in Chicago (I'm back for the summer and fall) what is our television news saying about the local African American Community? In our house, NBC5 tends to be the news choice (the "Lovely Allison News") at 6 p.m., and 10 p.m. In a 13-14 minute news hole, about 11-12 minutes are shootings, violence, fires, car accidents, robberies and thefts. The Lovely Allison makes her faces and talks about how tragic it is, but here you have a Caucasian woman and her Caucasian partner bringing you the nightly crime report. The vast majority of what they report comes from either the West Side or South Side or the inner-ring suburbs that are often predominantly African-American.

We're addicted to crime news here and our TV producers know it generates viewers. It's also got great visuals and someone can stand out in front of a squad car or nasty crime scene and talk to Police. "It's sooooo sad," says the Lovely Allison as she moves to the next crime story. Maybe we need to rethink TV news as one means of changing the feeling too many people have.

I think most Americans agree that something is wrong and that change comes from our youth.  Where a lot of us are different is how we get there, and that is a discussion that I'm willing to have with anyone.  I'm glad that more people are becoming aware of what is going on outside of their 'world'. 

Also, I can't stand to watch the news.  I feel like the crime news angle that many Americans are accustomed to is abhorrent.  I don't find violence on its own very newsworthy.  Unfortunately, I think a lot of people enjoy seeing or hearing about someone who is worse off than they are... and this makes them feel better about their own situation.

"Well, at least I don't live there!"  "Wow, I'm sure glad that I don't hang out with those people!"

It's the same reason people enjoy reality TV.  Tabloid television is alive and well in the ol' US of A.

[MU82]

dg:

Regardless of where I have lived - be it Minneapolis, Chicago or now Charlotte - I have not watched the local news in so long that I can't remember the last time I did. Maybe 1990-something? And it's just for the reasons you state. I don't need to see every fire, every murder and every fluff piece about a cat who whistles. I think there have been surveys that show the main reason people watch local news is for the weather; I guess they've never heard of The Weather Channel. Or the weather app on their smartphone.

Just as we can't legislate people to have good hearts, we can't legislate away all that sucks about local news. First Amendment, and all that. What we can do as consumers is stop watching it. If their ratings get low enough, they either will change or disappear. I've been doing that (or not doing that) for as long as I can remember.

As for the discussion you and your wife had, that's a great idea. Everybody should do it.

Peace, my friend.

[tower912]

I am an imperfect soul.    I strive, I fail.    I have for most of my adult life attempted to do what Reverend King challenged us to do.   To not judge someone based on their skin tone, but instead by the content of their character, their words, and their actions.   

I don't care if you are white, black, Hispanic, Asian, male, female, straight, gay, trans.   

Just don't be an pretty boy.

  ( I have been saying this for years.   My laughing wife shows it to me as a Facebook meme today.   Glad Facebook is catching up to me.)


Don't act entitled.
Remember we are all in this together.  We need each other.
Sitting around complaining when there is work to be done doesn't cut it any more.   
Mythical good old days?    Gone.   And a myth.   Something to be learned from, not worshiped.   We are here now. 
What are you going to do going forward?


Put on a mask.    I am wearing one for your benefit.    Show the same courtesy.   

[Billy Hoyle]

On a related, the SEC just told Mississippi it won't hold conference championships in the state until it finds itself a new flag.

Not sure how many conference events actually take place in Mississippi, but it's something.

in 2019 Mississippi State hosted Baseball and Women's Basketball tourney games. Southern Miss has hosted baseball tourney games as well.

Mississippi isn't getting neutral site games but it will hurt schools who earn the right to host tourney games.

[Billy Hoyle]

At the Board's indulgence, may I raise a few points for consideration:

1) Defunding the Police Departments -- Are you people nuts? Change the police, "yes!" Change hiring practices, "yes!" Change use of deadly force policies, "yes!" Define what you want from a police department: ABSOLUTELY! But if society defunds police departments, it is the neighborhoods most riddled by violence and crime that will hurt the most. Plus, this is not as easy as it sounds. Communities have agreements with police unions so defunding the police department may mean older squad cars more prone to breaking down (which means fewer officers on the streets), poorer equipment or inability to develop and implement the programs we want.

"Defund the police" is one of the worst slogans the movement could have come up with. Two weeks ago I went to a rally and listened to the leaders chant "defund the police" (and saw it on signs and spray-painted around downtown) and said to my wife "are they crazy? They want to get rid of the police?" My wife, as a minority, is a little more tuned into the movement and said: "they don't want to completely take away funding, just reallocate funding" and I read up on what it meant. The fact it had to be explained to someone highly educated (law) and supportive of the overall cause shows how bad the slogan is and that it's red meat for the right.  Defund literally means to eliminate funding. But then again, the generation of individuals who are using "defund" and saying "it doesn't actually mean to fully defund" are the same people who have changed the definition of the word "literally."

Reform or demilitarize are the correct terms to use. No more military weaponry. Do small towns really need tanks (https://twitter.com/i/status/1273655533510242308)?  More training on de-escalation. My wife's friend is an African-American and former cop who said there is simply not enough de-escalation emphasis for on-duty officers. Eliminate police immunity and break the police unions. Finally, let's get some real background checks. The FBI warned that white supremacist groups were infiltrating the police and military over a decade ago and it's only getting worse.

[Galway Eagle]

Brother MU, you and I are at different points in the political spectrum, but we are not far apart on this. Small moves can make big differences. For example, even in our home, my wife and I one evening after this started raised a series of "what if" questions about race that basically allowed us in our private conversations to explore where we need to change (and both of us are pretty liberal on how we think we should treat each other)

Sample question we discussed: "What if a couple of a different race with teenagers moved into the house next door?" Would we (a) Embrace them, bring them into a close-knit group of friends, have them over for dinner and welcome them into our lives; (b) Be friendly but distant; or, (c) Ignore them and even look for faults. Real question, real life example for some people in our community. Possibly for us in the future.

Another point, here in Chicago (I'm back for the summer and fall) what is our television news saying about the local African American Community? In our house, NBC5 tends to be the news choice (the "Lovely Allison News") at 6 p.m., and 10 p.m. In a 13-14 minute news hole, about 11-12 minutes are shootings, violence, fires, car accidents, robberies and thefts. The Lovely Allison makes her faces and talks about how tragic it is, but here you have a Caucasian woman and her Caucasian partner bringing you the nightly crime report. The vast majority of what they report comes from either the West Side or South Side or the inner-ring suburbs that are often predominantly African-American.

We're addicted to crime news here and our TV producers know it generates viewers. It's also got great visuals and someone can stand out in front of a squad car or nasty crime scene and talk to Police. "It's sooooo sad," says the Lovely Allison as she moves to the next crime story. Maybe we need to rethink TV news as one means of changing the feeling too many people have.

Which inner ring suburb is predominantly African American? 

Cicero: Latinx
Oak Park: White
Elmwood Park: White
Evanston: White
Stickney: White
Evergreen Park: White
Niles: White
Franklin Park: White
Norridge: White
Schiller Park: White


If you're referring to the south ones like Dolton riverdale calumet etc that makes sense but if the inner ring means touching the city I think they aren't as African American as you think. They're definitely more diverse in race and class but not majority African American imo

[dgies9156]

Which inner ring suburb is predominantly African American? 

Cicero: Latinx
Oak Park: White
Elmwood Park: White
Evanston: White
Stickney: White
Evergreen Park: White
Niles: White
Franklin Park: White
Norridge: White
Schiller Park: White


If you're referring to the south ones like Dolton riverdale calumet etc that makes sense but if the inner ring means touching the city I think they aren't as African American as you think. They're definitely more diverse in race and class but not majority African American imo

Let's also consider Maywood, Bellwood and Broadview. Maybe it's because I live in Lake County but I tend to think of anything within about five miles of the city limits as inner ring (as opposed to Naperville, Wheaton, Chicago Heights etc., which are outer edge suburbs.

[dgies9156]

dg:

Regardless of where I have lived - be it Minneapolis, Chicago or now Charlotte - I have not watched the local news in so long that I can't remember the last time I did. Maybe 1990-something? And it's just for the reasons you state. I don't need to see every fire, every murder and every fluff piece about a cat who whistles. I think there have been surveys that show the main reason people watch local news is for the weather; I guess they've never heard of The Weather Channel. Or the weather app on their smartphone.

In Chicago, they just want to watch Cheryl Scott do the weather on ABC7. She's a size three body slammed into a size 0 dress. It has the desired effect.

[Lennys Tap]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5kk4b5vBCL3lcGDIem1wWS?si=Zlzx4p4HSXuOWB8rXMl7cQ

This is a very long podcast by Sam Harris, noted liberal, atheist, philosopher and neuroscientist. He is very much anti Trump, but fears our dishonesty about how we approach racism, the police, BLM, etc., may provide him with a path to victory. Lots of data that challenges common perceptions and indicates most (especially in the media and positions of power) are fearful of honest conversation on the subject. Informative and worthwhile if one takes the time to listen.

[Billy Hoyle]

In Chicago, they just want to watch Cheryl Scott do the weather on ABC7. She's a size three body slammed into a size 0 dress. It has the desired effect.

that's par for the course for Chicago newscasts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82LSFob0b3U

[rocket surgeon]

Ah so rocket is going with being distracted and not focusing on the main issues at hand.

I should have suspected he didn't have the intellectual curiosity to look outside his Fox News / OAN bubble.  He's safe where he is.  It's comfortable there.

I should have suspected he didn't have the intellectual curiosity to look outside his Fox News / OAN bubble.  He's safe where he is.  It's comfortable there.
[/quote]

you guys are so predictable.  if someone disagrees with you or has an opposing point of view, claim they are too stupid and unaware of what's going on.  good one.  safe where i am?  how about you here on scoop?  us few conservatives are the ones who are constantly challenged.  real courage(out of your safety bubble)would be to challenge some of your liberal brethren here on scoop.  question the stuff that has continued to fail in our major cities.  that would be uncomfortable for you university types?  careful to stray from the "group think du jour"?  "safe bubble"??  the irony and the projection is special   

[Galway Eagle]

Let's also consider Maywood, Bellwood and Broadview. Maybe it's because I live in Lake County but I tend to think of anything within about five miles of the city limits as inner ring (as opposed to Naperville, Wheaton, Chicago Heights etc., which are outer edge suburbs.

fair enough if that's your definition. But I just wanted to point out that the perception of far out suburban individuals thinking the city is all big and bad once you get out of downtown all the way to the far suburbs was only made worse by your statement that inner ring suburbs are often all African American and on the nightly news for crimes.

Maywoods a hole. There's some more in the two proviso districts and the south ones are rough too but outside of that the inner ring are decent diverse places with slightly more crime just due to the proximity. 

[Pakuni]

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5kk4b5vBCL3lcGDIem1wWS?si=Zlzx4p4HSXuOWB8rXMl7cQ

This is a very long podcast by Sam Harris, noted liberal, atheist, philosopher and neuroscientist. He is very much anti Trump, but fears our dishonesty about how we approach racism, the police, BLM, etc., may provide him with a path to victory. Lots of data that challenges common perceptions and indicates most (especially in the media and positions of power) are fearful of honest conversation on the subject. Informative and worthwhile if one takes the time to listen.

Did he discuss his views on how black people are inherently less intelligent than whites?
It's always interesting how those who hold such views always present themselves as just "being honest" and as settled science, which is far from the truth.
Anyhow, maybe I'll give it a listen. Who better to lead an honest discussion of black America than a wealthy white guy?

[Hards Alumni]

I should have suspected he didn't have the intellectual curiosity to look outside his Fox News / OAN bubble.  He's safe where he is.  It's comfortable there.


you guys are so predictable.  if someone disagrees with you or has an opposing point of view, claim they are too stupid and unaware of what's going on.  good one.  safe where i am?  how about you here on scoop?  us few conservatives are the ones who are constantly challenged.  real courage(out of your safety bubble)would be to challenge some of your liberal brethren here on scoop.  question the stuff that has continued to fail in our major cities.  that would be uncomfortable for you university types?  careful to stray from the "group think du jour"?  "safe bubble"??  the irony and the projection is special   

You're not even trying.

The problem is conservatives typically are cool with status quo.  By definition, "holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion."  That's why you're constantly challenged, because your ethos is tells you that change is anathema. 

Also, I'm not sure why you are attempting to lump everyone here as liberals involved in some sort of circle jerk.  It's far from that.  Many of us agree and disagree with each other regularly.  But I guess you see what you want to see as long as it fits your narrow world view.  I'm only asking you to step outside it for once.  You don't have to agree with anyone here, but at least make an attempt at reading things that make you feel uncomfortable instead of dismissing them outright.

[rocket surgeon]

Why are people talking more about systemic racism today? Because video evidence caught white cops murdering innocent black people in cold blood, prompting fed-up black folks to take part in protests, some of which turned violent. All of which got everybody talking about all things relating to race, and even got some people in power trying to do something about it. There's more media, especially social media, than ever before, too, so it amplifies the conversation. Today, every man, woman and child with a smartphone is a "reporter." That's why there's more discussion of systemic racism today than, say, the previous 11 years.

As for your apparent disdain or inability to understand what systemic racism is ...

I think most would say it is when the majority race in a society uses discrimination in criminal justice, housing, health care, political policy-setting, employment, education, etc, to keep minority races down. Many (most?) black people in America have been subject to all of that, and it simply doesn't happen in White America. For example, by and large, a white person who is stopped with a broken tail-light is not likely to be told by a white cop to get out of the car, searched illegally, forced to spread-eagle against the car, and beaten if he says a word. Hence, the racism is built into the system, and it's certainly built into policing.

The matter-of-fact brutality in the Floyd case has made even people like you go, "Whoa, that was bad." Of course, had it not been caught on video, you would have believed Chauvin if he had said Floyd tried to kill him; after all, his 3 buddies would have been eyewitnesses and backed up whatever account was necessary to let their pal get away with murder. You wouldn't have even given a 1% possibility to the notion that Floyd was the victim and the cops were bad. That casual dismissal of the black man's rights also would be an example of systemic racism. I wonder how many cops have gotten away with dozens ... hundreds ... thousands of similar situations over the last few decades because there was no video evidence to hold the cops accountable. Another example of systemic racism. Chauvin had a history of racism and violence, yet he kept his job, which made it possible for him to murder Floyd. More systemic racism.

You don't like the term "systemic racism"? Cool. You don't have to use it. But if you don't understand why the conversation is advancing now, why black people and those who believe black lives matter have gotten so fed up that they are doing what they are doing, you are even more blind than your posts on the subject suggest.

Unfortunately, it took a near race riot to get us white folks out of our comfortable, suburban, gated bubbles ... even if it's mostly to say, "Chauvin was bad, but rioting is just as bad if not worse," like some Scoopers have done.

Hell, even your emperor - who 2 weeks ago used his militia to attack peaceful protesters so he could stage a photo-op - is actually trying to listen to black people. What he's proposing is window dressing, and it's hard to take him seriously given his decades of racist words and deeds, but at least he's pretending to try. You might do at least that much.

this is what i mean...how can one even respond to this.  so many false premises which of course come from your bias.  hard to have an honest dialogue with this,  once again, i'll have to hang up and let you guys circle jerk each other

[muwarrior69]

I should have suspected he didn't have the intellectual curiosity to look outside his Fox News / OAN bubble.  He's safe where he is.  It's comfortable there.


you guys are so predictable.  if someone disagrees with you or has an opposing point of view, claim they are too stupid and unaware of what's going on.  good one.  safe where i am?  how about you here on scoop?  us few conservatives are the ones who are constantly challenged.  real courage(out of your safety bubble)would be to challenge some of your liberal brethren here on scoop.  question the stuff that has continued to fail in our major cities.  that would be uncomfortable for you university types?  careful to stray from the "group think du jour"?  "safe bubble"??  the irony and the projection is special   

Could not of said it better. I wonder how many here agree with Hards_alum that there should be no jail time for non-volient crimes like B&Es, embezzlement, perjury and I guess as long you don't harm the kid, kidnapping. I think I was the only one who disagreed with him.

I do agree with most here that there is systemic racism it just runs both ways. Until that stops there will be no end to it.

[shoothoops]

Brother MU, you and I are at different points in the political spectrum, but we are not far apart on this. Small moves can make big differences. For example, even in our home, my wife and I one evening after this started raised a series of "what if" questions about race that basically allowed us in our private conversations to explore where we need to change (and both of us are pretty liberal on how we think we should treat each other)

Sample question we discussed: "What if a couple of a different race with teenagers moved into the house next door?" Would we (a) Embrace them, bring them into a close-knit group of friends, have them over for dinner and welcome them into our lives; (b) Be friendly but distant; or, (c) Ignore them and even look for faults. Real question, real life example for some people in our community. Possibly for us in the future.

Another point, here in Chicago (I'm back for the summer and fall) what is our television news saying about the local African American Community? In our house, NBC5 tends to be the news choice (the "Lovely Allison News") at 6 p.m., and 10 p.m. In a 13-14 minute news hole, about 11-12 minutes are shootings, violence, fires, car accidents, robberies and thefts. The Lovely Allison makes her faces and talks about how tragic it is, but here you have a Caucasian woman and her Caucasian partner bringing you the nightly crime report. The vast majority of what they report comes from either the West Side or South Side or the inner-ring suburbs that are often predominantly African-American.

We're addicted to crime news here and our TV producers know it generates viewers. It's also got great visuals and someone can stand out in front of a squad car or nasty crime scene and talk to Police. "It's sooooo sad," says the Lovely Allison as she moves to the next crime story. Maybe we need to rethink TV news as one means of changing the feeling too many people have.

This is the big disconnect right here  for some people here and elsewhere in my opinion. It isn't good enough to wait for the black family to move in next door or down the street. You have to physically go spend time with black people in black neighborhoods if you want to learn and understand. Many have no desire to do this.

Too many white people in their white neighborhoods who don't intentionally do this. Experience is a cure for ignorance. Either that is something that matters to you or it doesn't. Your choice. I am using you as the example here but that goes the same for anyone else.

[dgies9156]

fair enough if that's your definition. But I just wanted to point out that the perception of far out suburban individuals thinking the city is all big and bad once you get out of downtown all the way to the far suburbs was only made worse by your statement that inner ring suburbs are often all African American and on the nightly news for crimes.

Maywoods a hole. There's some more in the two proviso districts and the south ones are rough too but outside of that the inner ring are decent diverse places with slightly more crime just due to the proximity.

I agree. Oak Park is fantastic, as is Evanston. There are neighborhoods, even on the far west side of Chicago that are incredible. I lived in the area for 40 years and love the city — just not its government!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Could not of said it better.

LOL. If rocket's barely-English is the best it can be said...

I do agree with most here that there is systemic racism it just runs both ways.

There are no words.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I agree. Oak Park is fantastic, as is Evanston. There are neighborhoods, even on the far west side of Chicago that are incredible. I lived in the area for 40 years and love the city — just not its government!

Even though I lived in Chicago for far less time than I lived in several other places, somehow I still identify that has sort of "home", even though I was born in Wisconsin. Yup, the government has been a mess sever since I've known it, but I still love the city...which I guess I'm not supposed to as a Wisconsinite, but you can't beat the Chicago neighborhoods IMO.

I'm sure I am biased from living there after right after Marquette--lots of friends, enough money to have fun, and no responsibilities.