Lance Armstrong

[wadesworld]

This 30 For 30 series is great. ESPN is killing it going from The Last Dance to this. Lance is a total jag.

[Heisenberg]

How is he different from Jordan?

[warriorchick]

How is he different from Jordan?

Fewer testicles. But that's about it.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

How is he different from Jordan?

As far as we know Jordan did not become the best at what he was through chemical means - then hide that practice & actively deny it.

[Galway Eagle]

As far as we know Jordan did not become the best at what he was through chemical means - then hide that practice & actively deny it.

Does coccaine Not count?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Does coccaine Not count?

I guess you can make an argument that it makes you a better basketball player, but there are more examples of it taking athletes down than lifting them up.

[Galway Eagle]

I guess you can make an argument that it makes you a better basketball player, but there are more examples of it taking athletes down than lifting them up.

I was just joking around

[wadesworld]

As far as we know Jordan did not become the best at what he was through chemical means - then hide that practice & actively deny it.

Yup.  And it seems like outside of the arena/athletic competition Michael is a little bit less of a prick?  I could be totally wrong about that though.

[thebigjake]

Yup.  And it seems like outside of the arena/athletic competition Michael is a little bit less of a prick?  I could be totally wrong about that though.

Well, if you won money against Jordan playing golf, then actually tried to collect it you may have a different view....

[The Sultan]

Yup.  And it seems like outside of the arena/athletic competition Michael is a little bit less of a prick?  I could be totally wrong about that though.

He might be.  He might not be.  Since I interact with neither of them, it really doesn't impact me either way.  Nor do I particularly care other than I want people to be nice to one another in general.

[warriorchick]

Well, if you won money against Jordan playing golf, then actually tried to collect it you may have a different view....

Or if you were his wife and expected him to be monogamous...

[Billy Hoyle]

This 30 For 30 series is great. ESPN is killing it going from The Last Dance to this. Lance is a total jag.

Have just seen the first since my wife and I were preoccupied watching the rioting going on in our city after word leaked our neighborhood was being targeted by the anarchist white kids who consider us "gentrifiers." He came off as a tremendous douche from the first thirty seconds. Jordan probably was too (didn't watch Last Dance) but Jordan wasn't a disgraced cheater who accused others of doing what he was doing as Armstrong did. I read that the ratings were significantly lower for "Lance" and that was attributed to him being so unlikeable due to his cheating.  People legitimately felt betrayed by him.

[wadesworld]

Have just seen the first since my wife and I were preoccupied watching the rioting going on in our city after word leaked our neighborhood was being targeted by the anarchist white kids who consider us "gentrifiers." He came off as a tremendous douche from the first thirty seconds. Jordan probably was too (didn't watch Last Dance) but Jordan wasn't a disgraced cheater who accused others of doing what he was doing as Armstrong did. I read that the ratings were significantly lower for "Lance" and that was attributed to him being so unlikeable due to his cheating.  People legitimately felt betrayed by him.

The ratings are also probably lower because it's biking vs. basketball and, while Armstrong was a global figure, he was not Michael Jordan.

[GooooMarquette]

The ratings are also probably lower because it's biking vs. basketball and, while Armstrong was a global figure, he was not Michael Jordan.

Yep. If they air this in Europe, I'd bet the Armstrong documentary gets higher ratings than the Jordan one.

[Heisenberg]

As far as we know Jordan did not become the best at what he was through chemical means - then hide that practice & actively deny it.

So Jordan, by not cheating, can get away with being just a big a Jag.

Do the ends justify the means?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

So Jordan, by not cheating, can get away with being just a big a Jag.

Do the ends justify the means?

I didn't know you were a feelings guy?

[NorthernDancerColt]

Well, if you won money against Jordan playing golf, then actually tried to collect it you may have a different view....

MJ must not like you. He only wants a shot to win it back.

If he doesn't succeed at the double-or-nothing, he pays on the spot. Just ask my buddy who insisted I exit the restaurant and walk out to the OTB parking lot to see the $25K stuffed into his golf bag after a couple holed 40 footers vs his Airness at GlenFlora.

I wouldn't let him walk back into OTB with any more than 2K for a few races bc I knew MJ would win it back (and then some) by the end of the summer. Yep. When the shoe was on the other foot, let's just say my buddy didn't have to change his phone three times when he couldn't come up with the cash to pay MJ  after months had gone by. It was mutually understood it's a bit easier for one party to settle up.

[The Sultan]

So Jordan, by not cheating, can get away with being just a big a Jag.

Do the ends justify the means?

What do you mean "gets away with it?"  Lots of people are "a big Jag." 

[wadesworld]

So Jordan, by not cheating, can get away with being just a big a Jag.

Do the ends justify the means?

You asked what the difference was between Jordan and Armstrong. Nobody said he can get away with anything.

[Billy Hoyle]

The ratings are also probably lower because it's biking vs. basketball and, while Armstrong was a global figure, he was not Michael Jordan.

Maybe. But Lance Armstrong was probably the biggest crossover celebrity in the country for at least 5 years. He was more than a cyclist.

People felt betrayed by Armstrong. There is deep anger towards him.

[Heisenberg]

Maybe. But Lance Armstrong was probably the biggest crossover celebrity in the country for at least 5 years. He was more than a cyclist.

People felt betrayed by Armstrong. There is deep anger towards him.

I agree about the anger toward Armstrong.

Why not A-Rod?  He essentially did the same thing, in baseball.  But now A-Rod is as big a star as ever, and the color man of Sunday Night Baseball on ESPN.

What is the difference?

[🏀]

I agree about the anger toward Armstrong.

Why not A-Rod?  He essentially did the same thing, in baseball.  But now A-Rod is as big a star as ever, and the color man of Sunday Night Baseball on ESPN.

What is the difference?

Lance was an American hero. Dominated in a sport the US sucked in as a cancer survivor.

His story marked all the boxes of great All-American. He ended up being a cheating, lying, hypocrite; just a regular American.

[Its DJOver]

Lance was an American hero. Dominated in a sport the US sucked in as a cancer survivor.

His story marked all the boxes of great All-American. He ended up being a cheating, lying, hypocrite; just a regular American.

Lance was also the biggest face of cycling in American history.  A-Rod was big, but there were, at the time, and certainly more now that he's retired, bigger names is baseball.  I'd be curious to learn how many posters here can even name a current Professional American Cyclist.  I can only name 1.

[🏀]

Lance was also the biggest face of cycling in American history.  A-Rod was big, but there were, at the time, and certainly more now that he's retired, bigger names is baseball.  I'd be curious to learn how many posters here can even name a current Professional American Cyclist.  I can only name 1.

Floyd Landis still clicking in the shoes?

Lance transcended the sport at the time with dominance. Cycling is a niche sport and the guy was approaching Tiger level. Crazy how high he got, high enough to be a top-shelf penis.

[Its DJOver]

Floyd Landis still clicking in the shoes?

Believe it or not, he's been out of the (cycling) game for almost a decade.  Only one I know if is Tejay Van Garderen.