COVID Economy

[forgetful]

For your first point, the checks were significantly smaller and had reductions. The check my wife was reduced from the $1200 amount by 2/3rds.

As for the idea that using it to pay debt is bad, how many people would use it to pay off debt that was accumulated during COVID due to income reductions or other hardships? The biggest issue I have is those who suffered financially due to COVID may not receive it because they were doing "well" in 2019.

For example, one of my friends is a soccer coach. He still has his job but lost all of his camp income this past summer (his primary source of income), but 2019 tax returns meant no check. Another friend is a HS basketball coach - no season and no camps/lessons resulted in a significant loss in income. But, 2019 says he was doing well, so no stimulus check.  I had a 26% decrease due to cuts/furlough. But, I don't qualify for the new stimulus because of 2019 returns.

Also, setting an income ceiling of $50K or $75K isn't equitable. $75K in Manitowoc is a hell of a lot more than $75K in San Jose. My condo is 1/3 the size of my parents' house, but cost $20K more, due to location. Telling someone in San Diego "you made $76K in 2019, you're doing just fine and don't need any help" is ignoring reality.

I don't like the income thresholds at all for the reasons you mention here, which is why I think they should make any new stimulus related to filing this years taxes (it is already tax season).

Have anyone who can demonstrate income losses on this years taxes get a stimulus check, either the difference to make up lost income or something like $3500, whichever is lesser.

That way the money is specifically going to people who were economically harmed by the pandemic. Previously given stimulus checks subtract from the $3500. So it would be essentially allowing up to an additional $1700 above previous stimulus checks.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't like the income thresholds at all for the reasons you mention here, which is why I think they should make any new stimulus related to filing this years taxes (it is already tax season).

Have anyone who can demonstrate income losses on this years taxes get a stimulus check, either the difference to make up lost income or something like $3500, whichever is lesser.

That way the money is specifically going to people who were economically harmed by the pandemic. Previously given stimulus checks subtract from the $3500. So it would be essentially allowing up to an additional $1700 above previous stimulus checks.

That is exactly what the first two are.  If someone didn't meet the income threshold based on their 2019 taxes, they can get $1,800 if their 2020 income was significantly impacted.

As I have mentioned earlier, the first two stimulus payments were immediate advances on a 2020 tax credit.

It doesn't work in reverse by the way.  If someone received both, but would not have qualified because their income rose above the threshold in 2020, they don't have to payback the credit.  It is based on 2019 OR 2020 income.

[forgetful]

That is exactly what the first two are.  If someone didn't meet the income threshold based on their 2019 taxes, they can get $1,800 if their 2020 income was significantly impacted.

As I have mentioned earlier, the first two stimulus payments were immediate advances on a 2020 tax credit.

It doesn't work in reverse by the way.  If someone received both, but would not have qualified because their income rose above the threshold in 2020, they don't have to payback the credit.  It is based on 2019 OR 2020 income.

I understand that. But there is no reason why the third one can't be a 2020 tax credit period. Where you only get additional funds if you can show an in come loss due to the pandemic (e.g. difference between 2020-2019).

If people need those funds now, they can file taxes tomorrow. If not, they get it when they file, or don't get it at all if their income wasn't affected, or if the first 2 stimuli already corrected for their net loss.

That way people can ensure it is only going to those that were impacted, and people who actually profited from the pandemic aren't getting extra funds.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I understand that. But there is no reason why the third one can't be a 2020 tax credit period. Where you only get additional funds if you can show an in come loss due to the pandemic (e.g. difference between 2020-2019).

If people need those funds now, they can file taxes tomorrow. If not, they get it when they file, or don't get it at all if their income wasn't affected, or if the first 2 stimuli already corrected for their net loss.

That way people can ensure it is only going to those that were impacted, and people who actually profited from the pandemic aren't getting extra funds.

There is a reason that can’t happen. The law hasn’t even passed and the IRS is slated to start receiving returns next week. I can see why people should be able to get it once their 2020 returns are processed. But it’s too late to include it on the 2020 forms.

[forgetful]

There is a reason that can’t happen. The law hasn’t even passed and the IRS is slated to start receiving returns next week. I can see why people should be able to get it once their 2020 returns are processed. But it’s too late to include it on the 2020 forms.

How is this different than what I proposed. You get your 3rd stimulus when you file your 2020 returns, if you can show a net loss in income between 2019-2020.

If you need the money sooner, file tomorrow.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

How is this different than what I proposed. You get your 3rd stimulus when you file your 2020 returns, if you can show a net loss in income between 2019-2020.

If you need the money sooner, file tomorrow.

Nevermind. Not worth the effort.

[jesmu84]

Means test universal checks to individuals.

No need to means test checks to corporations. No need to means test decisions by the Fed that benefit wall street/corporations.

[jesmu84]

Income levels currently being floated is based on really bad data.

https://youtu.be/jNVj60nheIk

[jesmu84]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/10/capitol-insurrectionists-jenna-ryan-financial-problems/

Hmmm...

[GooooMarquette]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/10/capitol-insurrectionists-jenna-ryan-financial-problems/

Hmmm...

Financial problems, bankruptcies...yet they have enough money to buy guns and gallows.

[jesmu84]

Financial problems, bankruptcies...yet they have enough money to buy guns and gallows.

I interpreted the story differently

[shoothoops]

Checking in on thst COVID-19 Economy. So many corporations with similar stories. Let's randomly pick Kroger to see how they are doing:

https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/status/1361773792020807680?s=19

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1362115362070929414?s=19

(Their CEO made $21.1 Million last year)

[JWags85]

CEO pay is such a dumb metric in these discussions. Especially since it’s a corporation that is very very profitable.  Kroger has roughly 2750 grocery stores (not including other stores in their portfolio). If you cut the CEO’s pay by $20MM, that’s less than $800 extra per store. It’s a drop in the bucket. It’s just scapegoating someone who’s seemingly quite good at their job for a rift in corporate versus store salaries.

Stock buybacks however is a very valid discussion and a disproportionate usage of profits. I’m all for the distaste towards that.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I’m not debating your points but your math is off.

[jesmu84]

CEO pay is such a dumb metric in these discussions. Especially since it’s a corporation that is very very profitable.  Kroger has roughly 2750 grocery stores (not including other stores in their portfolio). If you cut the CEO’s pay by $20MM, that’s less than $800 extra per store. It’s a drop in the bucket. It’s just scapegoating someone who’s seemingly quite good at their job for a rift in corporate versus store salaries.

Stock buybacks however is a very valid discussion and a disproportionate usage of profits. I’m all for the distaste towards that.

You're correct, kinda. I personally think the CEO pay thing is representative of a bigger problem. Ya, one person's salary, if cut, would be a drop in the bucket. But cut every executive, every VP, etc etc. Then you have a lot of coin.

[shoothoops]

CEO pay matters, as does Executive pay.

According to the Economic Policy Institute, CEO pay has risen 940% since 1978, while average worker pay has risen just 12% in the same time frame. (The Stock Market grew 700% in that time frame)

Wage growth for the bottom 90% would have grown twice as fast, if not for redistribution of wages to the top 1.0%. from the bottom 90%.

Share of wages from the bottom 90% fell from 70% to 60% during the time period since 1978 through 2019. Share of wages for the top 1% nearly doubled from 7 percent to just under 14%.

44% of the growth of the 0.1% category came from non financial sector "Executives". 36% of the 1.0% income share growth also came from non financial sector executives. And 23% of income share growth from both 1.0% and 0.1 percent came from financial sector workers, some of whom were executives.

[JWags85]

I’m not debating your points but your math is off.

Yea I left out a zero when I typed it.  But points remains.

I used to work at a Fortune 100 company.  People raise hell about CEO or VP pay but mention nothing of the legions of middle managers who make 200-300K with job security that is really only at risk if the company does wholesale layoffs.  Those people don’t get the heave if companies miss earnings, usually don’t have heavily performance driven comp, etc...

But I dont need to get further deeper into a very opinionated topic

[MUBurrow]

Are executives members of labor or kapital, comrades?

[jesmu84]

OT (but it needs to be broadcast everywhere) -

According to a groundbreaking new working paper by Carter C. Price and Kathryn Edwards of the RAND Corporation, had the more equitable income distributions of the three decades following World War II (1945 through 1974) merely held steady, the aggregate annual income of Americans earning below the 90th percentile would have been $2.5 trillion higher in the year 2018 alone. That is an amount equal to nearly 12 percent of GDP—enough to more than double median income—enough to pay every single working American in the bottom nine deciles an additional $1,144 a month. Every month. Every single year.

[rocket surgeon]

I interpreted the story differently

 me too!  just a continuation of the the big "MSM" disinformation campaign to maintain control of the "unwashed".   if the orange dude had a 10' razor wired wall around our house with 10's of thousands of the military and police(they want to re imagine btw)i can predict the vitriol flying.  we continue to get one story which stokes the masses only to be slowly walked down at best, forgotten but not corrected at worst and  i call this "boiling the frog"  who's the dicktator now?  oh, and it's 2 masks please and don't bother doing any Christmas shopping just yet.  maybe a new apple for junior to keep up with the indoctrination classes.  hey, this was too easy.  what will the next "crisis" be?   

[TSmith34, Inc.]

me too!  just a continuation of the the big "MSM" disinformation campaign to maintain control of the "unwashed".   if the orange dude had a 10' razor wired wall around our house with 10's of thousands of the military and police(they want to re imagine btw)i can predict the vitriol flying.  we continue to get one story which stokes the masses only to be slowly walked down at best, forgotten but not corrected at worst and  i call this "boiling the frog"  who's the dicktator now?  oh, and it's 2 masks please and don't bother doing any Christmas shopping just yet.  maybe a new apple for junior to keep up with the indoctrination classes.  hey, this was too easy.  what will the next "crisis" be?

How drunk were you when you put this masterpiece together?

[MU82]

Wut?

[jesmu84]

me too!  just a continuation of the the big "MSM" disinformation campaign to maintain control of the "unwashed".   if the orange dude had a 10' razor wired wall around our house with 10's of thousands of the military and police(they want to re imagine btw)i can predict the vitriol flying.  we continue to get one story which stokes the masses only to be slowly walked down at best, forgotten but not corrected at worst and  i call this "boiling the frog"  who's the dicktator now?  oh, and it's 2 masks please and don't bother doing any Christmas shopping just yet.  maybe a new apple for junior to keep up with the indoctrination classes.  hey, this was too easy.  what will the next "crisis" be?

This was also not my interpretation

[ATL MU Warrior]

This was also not my interpretation

LOL.  That is likely because you are not totally insane.

[GooooMarquette]

 me too!  just a continuation of the the big "MSM" disinformation campaign to maintain control of the "unwashed".   if the orange dude had a 10' razor wired wall around our house with 10's of thousands of the military and police(they want to re imagine btw)i can predict the vitriol flying.  we continue to get one story which stokes the masses only to be slowly walked down at best, forgotten but not corrected at worst and  i call this "boiling the frog"  who's the dicktator now?  oh, and it's 2 masks please and don't bother doing any Christmas shopping just yet.  maybe a new apple for junior to keep up with the indoctrination classes.  hey, this was too easy.  what will the next "crisis" be?

I didn't know Big Orange and his comrades had walked back the stolen election story. Do you have a link?