collapse

* Recent Posts

2024 Transfer Portal by Zog from Margo
[Today at 11:02:38 AM]


Dallas bars tonite by 5DollarPitcher
[Today at 10:58:06 AM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by Dr. Blackheart
[Today at 10:54:04 AM]


Kam Jones 1st Round Mock - The Ringer by PGsHeroes32
[Today at 10:50:38 AM]


2024 NCAA Tournament Thread by Uncle Rico
[Today at 10:40:35 AM]


Chicago bars for Fri game by Galway Eagle
[Today at 10:35:41 AM]


Katz has MU in Final Four by Scoop Snoop
[Today at 09:51:44 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations  (Read 11034 times)

WarriorDad

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1352
This was on Yahoo today.  Doctors out west presenting some information, and they also mention Wisconsin doctors several times.  They address a number of the various options and concerns people have mentioned here.  There is a bit for everyone here.  Several reporters in the room asking them questions.  Good exchanges with media and the doctors.

Takeaways

They are advocating for widespread testing, but we cannot test all of humanity and there are major tradeoffs in thinking that is possible
They are working with what they have today based on data now.  Discuss that double-blind full research will not be available until next year.
New York perfect setup for hot zone, but doesn't mean rest of the country is.
Models early on were wrong, but best that we had.  With more data now, need to adjust how we think.
Hospital administrations pressuring doctors on death certificates to list COVID as one of the causes (Wisconsin mention)
The vulnerable should shelter in place. If you have comorbidities, use a mask.  If you are healthy, you should not.
People have been scared to go to the doctor and other diseases are causing problems that need to be treated.
They believe quarantining the healthy is wrong. Quarantine the sick.
Increase in alcoholism, sexual assaults, depression, domestic violence because of shelter in place.  Financial ruin will ultimately be worse than the policies practiced.
Doctors furloughed, hospitals closing floors.
They touch on Sweden and Norway stats and in the USA
When shelter in place ends, illness will spike which they say is normal. The current plan, in their opinion, is hurting our immune systems because we are not out and about.  They want schools reopened, businesses.  Sports they believe should be slower.

https://youtu.be/xfLVxx_lBLU

https://youtu.be/zb6j7o1pLBw



“No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth.”
— Plato

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17383
This was on Yahoo today.  Doctors out west presenting some information, and they also mention Wisconsin doctors several times.  They address a number of the various options and concerns people have mentioned here.  There is a bit for everyone here.  Several reporters in the room asking them questions.  Good exchanges with media and the doctors.

Takeaways

They are advocating for widespread testing, but we cannot test all of humanity and there are major tradeoffs in thinking that is possible
They are working with what they have today based on data now.  Discuss that double-blind full research will not be available until next year.
New York perfect setup for hot zone, but doesn't mean rest of the country is.
Models early on were wrong, but best that we had.  With more data now, need to adjust how we think.
Hospital administrations pressuring doctors on death certificates to list COVID as one of the causes (Wisconsin mention)
The vulnerable should shelter in place. If you have comorbidities, use a mask.  If you are healthy, you should not.
People have been scared to go to the doctor and other diseases are causing problems that need to be treated.
They believe quarantining the healthy is wrong. Quarantine the sick.
Increase in alcoholism, sexual assaults, depression, domestic violence because of shelter in place.  Financial ruin will ultimately be worse than the policies practiced.
Doctors furloughed, hospitals closing floors.
They touch on Sweden and Norway stats and in the USA
When shelter in place ends, illness will spike which they say is normal. The current plan, in their opinion, is hurting our immune systems because we are not out and about.  They want schools reopened, businesses.  Sports they believe should be slower.

https://youtu.be/xfLVxx_lBLU

https://youtu.be/zb6j7o1pLBw

So we have medical doctors claiming people at risk should wear masks but people not at risk should not? I will stay away from those doctors. The masks are not preventing a person from getting the disease. They’re helping to prevent the spread of the disease.

Also, there are a ton of people who aren’t “sick” that have it and can spread it. By not quarantining them we will just continue the spread of it.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

injuryBug

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
i agree with what they are saying.
I still think sports and the movies can go on with preassigned seating to space out the crowd. obviously a limit on the people that can attend and slowly build it up

GooooMarquette

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9489
  • We got this.
Interesting takes. There are always outlier opinions.

injuryBug

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
So we have medical doctors claiming people at risk should wear masks but people not at risk should not? I will stay away from those doctors. The masks are not preventing a person from getting the disease. They’re helping to prevent the spread of the disease.

Also, there are a ton of people who aren’t “sick” that have it and can spread it. By not quarantining them we will just continue the spread of it.

the big thing to figure out say i am diabetic and the 5 others in my house are fine, what happens then.  Do I hide in the basement until a vaccine? 

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17383
the big thing to figure out say i am diabetic and the 5 others in my house are fine, what happens then.  Do I hide in the basement until a vaccine?

Exactly. What people still don’t understand is that sometimes the world isn’t always all about you. Yes, if I went about my life as if it was normal the chances are I would get covid 19 and the chances are I would come out of it just fine. Great! The problem is the chances are I would also be spreading it to other people, who would then go and spread it to more people, and eventually it would get to someone who would not come out of it just fine.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12220
the big thing to figure out say i am diabetic and the 5 others in my house are fine, what happens then.  Do I hide in the basement until a vaccine?

Three choices, none optimal:
1.You hide in your basement for as long as it takes - until there’s a vaccine, herd immunity, whatever it is that gives you the confidence to leave.
2. You and your family quarantine for as long as it takes - until...
3. Everybody quarantines.

#1 or #2 make more sense to me than #3.

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11512
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Here we go again.

Chicos has found some videos from two ER doctors in Bakersfiled, California who agree with him and therefore are given full authority on this topic.  Even though that county's and state's public health officials, who are, you know, experts in public health, don't agree with them.

So so Chicos....
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 07:03:14 AM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11512
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Three choices, none optimal:
1.You hide in your basement for as long as it takes - until there’s a vaccine, herd immunity, whatever it is that gives you the confidence to leave.
2. You and your family quarantine for as long as it takes - until...
3. Everybody quarantines.

#1 or #2 make more sense to me than #3.



Lennys, I am having trouble understanding what your world would look like.  Keeping restaurants and bars open with no social distancing?  Social distancing in place?  Because the first option seems very dangerous given what we know.  The second sounds about as economically feasible as the current situation. 

I think the biggest problem is going to be people's willingness to engage in activities that they used to engage in.  If the economy "opened up" tomorrow, are people going to want to sit in a packed bar?  Go to a sporting event?  Fly to a crowded destination to go on vacation?

I think we are blaming the government's response to the pandemic for the economic problems way more than the actual culprit.  The pandemic.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12220

Lennys, I am having trouble understanding what your world would look like.  Keeping restaurants and bars open with no social distancing?  Social distancing in place?  Because the first option seems very dangerous given what we know.  The second sounds about as economically feasible as the current situation. 

I think the biggest problem is going to be people's willingness to engage in activities that they used to engage in.  If the economy "opened up" tomorrow, are people going to want to sit in a packed bar?  Go to a sporting event?  Fly to a crowded destination to go on vacation?

I think we are blaming the government's response to the pandemic for the economic problems way more than the actual culprit.  The pandemic.

Fluff - even when we “open up” I think that some people should practice strict social distancing for as long as it takes. Others will choose it. Some businesses will be affected for a long time.

🏀

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8467
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2020, 07:41:55 AM »

I think we are blaming the government's response to the pandemic for the economic problems way more than the actual culprit.  The pandemic.

For the first couple weeks no one was blaming the government. Once the pandemic was politicized...

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23345
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2020, 07:55:16 AM »
To go along with the 'some' who are and are advocating for drinking bleach.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Hards Alumni

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6583
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2020, 11:12:12 AM »
Here we go again.

Chicos has found some videos from two ER doctors in Bakersfiled, California who agree with him and therefore are given full authority on this topic.  Even though that county's and state's public health officials, who are, you know, experts in public health, don't agree with them.

So so Chicos....



Exactly.  Another appeal to authority... except they're not authoritative... but you know, they're doctors, so we should give them the same authority as epidemiologists...  because... reasons.


The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11512
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2020, 11:15:23 AM »
Fluff - even when we “open up” I think that some people should practice strict social distancing for as long as it takes. Others will choose it. Some businesses will be affected for a long time.

So then it seems to me the economy is f*cked either way.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

pbiflyer

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1737
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2020, 12:18:20 PM »
These docs have an interesting perspective, but they make an immense error in assuming that the % positive COVID-19 tests among the tested population equals the percentage of the total population that has been infected by the virus. Indeed, because testing to date has been limited almost entirely to symptomatic persons throughout the USA, the percentage of positive results should be orders of magnitude higher than in the general population. This is an almost inexplicable error on their part, which places the remainder of their discussion in question.

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2020, 12:44:14 PM »
This is the equivalent of a couple of Pop Warner football coaches holding a press conference to argue that Bill Belichick and Nick Saban don't understand defensive game planning as well as they do. And using faulty data to support their claims.

Hards Alumni

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6583
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2020, 01:36:33 PM »
This is the equivalent of a couple of Pop Warner football coaches holding a press conference to argue that Bill Belichick and Nick Saban don't understand defensive game planning as well as they do. And using faulty data to support their claims.

Now that's what I call fascinating!

jesmu84

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6029
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2020, 03:07:46 PM »
Appeal to authority.

500 economists...

jesmu84

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6029

lostpassword

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2020, 04:54:10 PM »
These docs have an interesting perspective, but they make an immense error in assuming that the % positive COVID-19 tests among the tested population equals the percentage of the total population that has been infected by the virus. Indeed, because testing to date has been limited almost entirely to symptomatic persons throughout the USA, the percentage of positive results should be orders of magnitude higher than in the general population. This is an almost inexplicable error on their part, which places the remainder of their discussion in question.

You mean if 2 people go to the doctor and 1 is infected it doesn't mean that 50% of the general population is infected?  I watched 30 minute of the video last night and turned it off after the same logic was used multiple times.

I'm pretty torn on how to think about risk vs. benefit in regards to reopening (so much we are still learning) but arguments like that presented in the video aren't helping.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 04:56:02 PM by lostpassword »

lostpassword

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2020, 04:55:04 PM »
double post

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4726
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2020, 05:40:50 PM »
https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1254481543759683584?s=19

TLDR: that video is totally bogus

Agreed. Barely got through 1 minute of it, before there were glaring inaccuracies.

So some owners of predatory urgent care (fake ER's that profit off labeling themselves as an ER), want people to reopen. I can come up with at least a dozen reasons why they may be motivated to go that route that have nothing to do with health of patients.

Also, this being about the same as a regular flu is provably false.

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12220
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2020, 05:46:31 PM »
So then it seems to me the economy is f*cked either way.

F*cked for sure. It already is. But not totally, depression type f*cked. Yet.

Frenns Liquor Depot

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3167
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2020, 06:11:02 PM »
F*cked for sure. It already is. But not totally, depression type f*cked. Yet.


Lenny I’ve been thinking a lot about this from a curiosity standpoint.  Here is one guys opinion.

1. A significant amount of consumer demand is going to be lost not matter what the govt decides or doesn’t decide to do as it related to shutdowns. 

2. Controlling the virus is paramount to any business recovery

3. The next ‘wave’ of economic/wage driven loss is just started and that likely precedes the next wave of virus driven loss (balanced by fiscal/monetary support).


So in my mind we need to find out how to keep a factory or business open and running.  The only way I see that happening is testing with an intrusive level of tracing that the US citizens haven’t faced before or a vaccine. 

Somehow we need to find a quick way to identify sick people and keep them out of circulation. 

🏀

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8467
Re: Fascinating video from some doctors on COVID stats and recommendations
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2020, 08:38:53 PM »
These guys also don’t believe in vaccines, so there’s that.

 

feedback