Protests

[Jockey]

I imagine Jockey may be speaking about this:

@DCGuard1802: DCNG Commanding General has directed an investigation into the actions of our rotary aviation assets June 1. Our priority is the safety of our Guardsmen who support civil authorities. We are dedicated to ensuring the safety of citizens and their right to protest.

Speaking of the Secretary of Defense, should we be happy that he now realizes what a clusterf*ck yesterday's photo op was, or concerned that this was the best excuse he could come up with?

@NBCNews: NEW: Defense Sec. Esper asserts to @NBCNews that he had no advance notice before Pres. Trump led him and other officials to St. John's Episcopal Church for a photo-op: "I thought I was going to do two things: to see some damage and to talk to the troops" https://nbcnews.to/2XW6unr

I was talking more about the prez wanting the military to get involved. Once that occurs, anything can happen. It is hard to control a fluid situation.

I was happy (and surprised) to see the Defense Secretary sort of Pooh-Pooh the idea today.

[pbiflyer]

I was talking more about the prez wanting the military to get involved. Once that occurs, anything can happen. It is hard to control a fluid situation.

I was happy (and surprised) to see the Defense Secretary sort of Pooh-Pooh the idea today.

This guy?

Defense Secretary Mark Esper says he 'didn't know' where he was going when he walked with Trump through a park aggressively cleared of protesters moments before

Esper now admits he knew where he was going after the press reminded him he was on tape telling people where they were going.

[GooooMarquette]

This guy?

Defense Secretary Mark Esper says he 'didn't know' where he was going when he walked with Trump through a park aggressively cleared of protesters moments before

Esper now admits he knew where he was going after the press reminded him he was on tape telling people where they were going.

If he had claimed it was just "locker room talk," a large segment of the base would have bought it.

[The Sultan]

I was talking more about the prez wanting the military to get involved. Once that occurs, anything can happen. It is hard to control a fluid situation.

I was happy (and surprised) to see the Defense Secretary sort of Pooh-Pooh the idea today.

Lots of rumors that senior military brass was upset what they saw the other night.

[Pakuni]

Lots of rumors that senior military brass was upset what they saw the other night.

Yes, and I can't imagine that many of the troops ordered to take part in that mess signed up for the military so they could tear gas and push around fellow Americans. I feel bad for them as well.

[jesmu84]

Who/what group were the armed security around DC/white house yesterday?

[JWags85]

Who/what group were the armed security around DC/white house yesterday?

Wouldn't be surprised if it was Blackwater or other similar private military-style security

[Pakuni]

Who/what group were the armed security around DC/white house yesterday?

Unless things have changed, it's been a combination of national guardsman and national parks police, with a smattering of secret service.

[Jockey]

This guy?

Defense Secretary Mark Esper says he 'didn't know' where he was going when he walked with Trump through a park aggressively cleared of protesters moments before

Esper now admits he knew where he was going after the press reminded him he was on tape telling people where they were going.

Yup. That's why I put "(and surprised)" in my post. He is just another Trump lackey.

I'm guessing he heard from other generals (probably mostly retired ones) warning him that what he was considering was wrong.

[Jockey]

Lots of rumors that senior military brass was upset what they saw the other night.

I just read this comment after my last post. That is what I was trying to say

[MU82]

Another lie-fest and shyte-show. Stunner.

How about Trump saying, "I am an ally of all peaceful protesters," about 10 seconds before he sent in the troops to smoke out the peaceful protesters?

And I guess that doesn't apply to NFL players taking a knee, whom he saved mercilessly -- and with repeated racist undertones -- for weeks and weeks and weeks.

Or maybe he just believed that "kneeling while black" is not peaceful.

[Pakuni]

Marquette connection ... Juan Toscano Anderson is leading a "Walk in Unity" march in Oakland today. Steph Curry, Klay Thompson and Kevon Looney marching with him.

Warriors social media live-tweeting it
https://twitter.com/warriors/status/1268263243010543623

[The Sultan]

Well this is something.

https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1268268724693467136?s=20

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Well this is something.

https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1268268724693467136?s=20

Remember when asking for Dijon mustard and wearing a tan suit were scandals? The good ol' days.

[GooooMarquette]

Charges against Chauvin upgraded to Second Degree Murder, and three others charged as accessories to murder.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/us/live-george-floyd-protests-today.html

I kind of doubt that happens without the marches.

[Galway Eagle]

Charges against Chauvin upgraded to Second Degree Murder, and three others charged as accessories to murder.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/us/live-george-floyd-protests-today.html

I kind of doubt that happens without the marches.

I think Lane gets off or gets some deal with a lesser charge due to his suggestion to change the position. The others I think will have a tough time.

[wadesworld]

Well this is something.

https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1268268724693467136?s=20

The White House spreading fake news? No way!

[mu03eng]

https://www.gq.com/story/deray-mckesson-interview-8-cant-wait

Potentially a place to start, a data driven analysis of reforms that have shown to be effective in reducing use of force outcomes in police forces (team is led by DeRay Mckesson who I only recently became aware of, but I find to have a very compelling concept). Basically, it is 8 key reforms that A) mayors/police chiefs can do on their own and/or negotiate into their next union contract B) is proven to reduce police violence and C) actually has fiscal benefit.

    Ban chokeholds and strangleholds

    Require de-escalation

    Require warning before shooting

    Exhaust all other means before shooting

    Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers

    Ban shooting at moving vehicles

    Require use-of-force continuum

    Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so

[GooooMarquette]

https://www.gq.com/story/deray-mckesson-interview-8-cant-wait

Potentially a place to start, a data driven analysis of reforms that have shown to be effective in reducing use of force outcomes in police forces (team is led by DeRay Mckesson who I only recently became aware of, but I find to have a very compelling concept). Basically, it is 8 key reforms that A) mayors/police chiefs can do on their own and/or negotiate into their next union contract B) is proven to reduce police violence and C) actually has fiscal benefit.

    Ban chokeholds and strangleholds

    Require de-escalation

    Require warning before shooting

    Exhaust all other means before shooting

    Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers

    Ban shooting at moving vehicles

    Require use-of-force continuum

    Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so

I haven't seen this before, but B and C alone should make this a no-brainer. The only plausible objection I can see - and one I didn't see addressed in the article - is that the changes could make officers so tentative that it puts them or bystanders in jeopardy. Given that Tucson and SF have already implemented the eight reforms, they should be able to find data on that.

Loved this quote: " Here's the thing: At the minimum, the rules by which officers can kill you should be public." Yep.

[Jockey]

Well this is something.

https://twitter.com/ariehkovler/status/1268268724693467136?s=20

No. "Something" would be if Trump went one day without lying.

I guarantee "something" will never, ever happen.

[MU82]

https://www.gq.com/story/deray-mckesson-interview-8-cant-wait

Potentially a place to start, a data driven analysis of reforms that have shown to be effective in reducing use of force outcomes in police forces (team is led by DeRay Mckesson who I only recently became aware of, but I find to have a very compelling concept). Basically, it is 8 key reforms that A) mayors/police chiefs can do on their own and/or negotiate into their next union contract B) is proven to reduce police violence and C) actually has fiscal benefit.

    Ban chokeholds and strangleholds

    Require de-escalation

    Require warning before shooting

    Exhaust all other means before shooting

    Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers

    Ban shooting at moving vehicles

    Require use-of-force continuum

    Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so

This is excellent. As Gooooooooooooooooo said, it will be interesting to see how things work where they're trying to implement it.

[jesmu84]

https://www.gq.com/story/deray-mckesson-interview-8-cant-wait

Potentially a place to start, a data driven analysis of reforms that have shown to be effective in reducing use of force outcomes in police forces (team is led by DeRay Mckesson who I only recently became aware of, but I find to have a very compelling concept). Basically, it is 8 key reforms that A) mayors/police chiefs can do on their own and/or negotiate into their next union contract B) is proven to reduce police violence and C) actually has fiscal benefit.

    Ban chokeholds and strangleholds

    Require de-escalation

    Require warning before shooting

    Exhaust all other means before shooting

    Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers

    Ban shooting at moving vehicles

    Require use-of-force continuum

    Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so

More here:
https://twitter.com/samswey/status/1180655701271732224?s=19

For those who are interested in research-based solutions to stop police violence, here's what you need to know - based on the facts and data. A thread. (1/x)

This is a lengthy thread on research-based solutions. It is comprehensive.

[muwarrior69]

I found this article interesting. It is written from a conservative point of view, but I think it brings up valid concerns we all should have. I do take issue that we don't have a racism problem, we do; but it is just not blacks that are victims of police abuse.

https://pjmedia.com/columns/megan-fox/2020/06/02/we-dont-have-a-racism-problem-we-have-a-deep-state-problem-the-hideous-police-killing-of-duncan-lemp-n484233

[muwarrior69]

https://www.gq.com/story/deray-mckesson-interview-8-cant-wait

Potentially a place to start, a data driven analysis of reforms that have shown to be effective in reducing use of force outcomes in police forces (team is led by DeRay Mckesson who I only recently became aware of, but I find to have a very compelling concept). Basically, it is 8 key reforms that A) mayors/police chiefs can do on their own and/or negotiate into their next union contract B) is proven to reduce police violence and C) actually has fiscal benefit.

    Ban chokeholds and strangleholds

    Require de-escalation

    Require warning before shooting

    Exhaust all other means before shooting

    Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers

    Ban shooting at moving vehicles

    Require use-of-force continuum

    Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so

I get it, but reforms will only make a difference if they are followed and only if the bad actors that don't follow them are held accountable. Have the 3 other officers been charged with any mis conduct yet?

I don't know too many police officers who would agree to those. Would an armed suspect also be required to give a warning before they shoot at a police officer?

[Pakuni]

https://www.gq.com/story/deray-mckesson-interview-8-cant-wait

Potentially a place to start, a data driven analysis of reforms that have shown to be effective in reducing use of force outcomes in police forces (team is led by DeRay Mckesson who I only recently became aware of, but I find to have a very compelling concept). Basically, it is 8 key reforms that A) mayors/police chiefs can do on their own and/or negotiate into their next union contract B) is proven to reduce police violence and C) actually has fiscal benefit.

    Ban chokeholds and strangleholds

    Require de-escalation

    Require warning before shooting

    Exhaust all other means before shooting

    Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers

    Ban shooting at moving vehicles

    Require use-of-force continuum

    Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so

This is a good list, and a lot of these policies do exist at a lot of departments ... specifically a ban on chokeholds, the duty to intervene and use-of-force continuum.
The bigger problem isn't so much the existence of such polices, but the training and enforcement of them. Eric Garner, for example, was killed by a chokehold maneuver that had been banned by the NYPD more than 20 years earlier. Yet NYPD records showed that up until Garner's death, officers rarely were disciplined for using chokeholds and when they were, it was not severe.

Policies are necessary, but if there's no training or teeth behind them, then they do little good. The training shouldn't be too hard, but I don't know how you change the discipline part but through a long, difficult culture change. Easier said than done.

There's also now a renewed push on Capitol Hill to remove or reduce qualified immunity from police, which essentially protects them from civil penalties/lawsuits when they violate citizens' rights. The reasoning behind such policies has some merit - none of us want police out on the job making difficult, split-second decisions while fearing a lawsuit. But the near-total immunity they have now makes them practically unaccountable. There needs to be a way to find a balance between protecting cops from frivolous lawsuits over routine actions and giving citizens a chance for redress over violations of their rights.