Proposed 2nd round of stimulus

[jesmu84]

This is an absolutely horrible idea brought forth from some of the original idiots on the left. Let's mortgage the entire future for a quick fix now. WTF, why would anyone want to work? The soundest and quickest way to restore the economy is to get people working again, not to make them totally dependent on Uncle Sugar. Unless, of course, Socialism and total dependence on government is what you are looking for as an easy way out.

1. I think you're intelligent.

But you either don't know what this word means and therefore are using it incorrectly or you are intentionally saying the wrong thing.

2. All of the proposed stimulus measures are short-term. So, ya, people are gonna have to go back to work whether they want to or not.

[forgetful]

The shotgun blast nature of this has been so frustrating.  IMHO the three prong approach should have directed funding to (1) keep all payrolls at the prior 12 mo averages for all employees making under $100k, (2) support all states to make it easier to get unemployment and boost those benefits for people who are laid off or furloughed despite the substantial covering of payrolls and (3) testing and medical point of care expansion to actually beat the damn virus.

Help offset the costs (remember when that mattered? how quaint) with a one time, significant rate hike on the corporate income tax rate, pass through income for high earners, capital gains and dividends.  None of the policy rationales for those rates being low apply in the middle of a pandemic if the government is covering payrolls.  Its like a massive version of when we bailed out the banks - you'll take this money and like it, because it means you can go back to making money when this passes.

Of course would never happen, because there's unacceptable things there for both parties (too many benefits going to business vs individuals for dems, tax hike for gop).  But all this value projecting about the rent being too damn high, and trading off who gets what has lead to an underfunded nonsense patchwork that isn't doing enough to matter.

Regarding the bolded. The stimulus plan actually granted pass through entities close to $100B in additional tax breaks. Phase 4 wants to expand those cuts, and add more cuts to capital gains and dividends, along with other tax breaks earmarked for the rich.

That is one of the reasons individuals want to hold state funding and hospital funding for phase 4, so they can ram through massive tax breaks for the 1%.

[Jay Bee]

I've seen stories that people who don't "need" their stimulus money are spending it, donating it or just straight up giving the cash to someone who does need it.

That is always an option. Especially in a situation where the money needs to come out quickly, I'd rather everyone get it and then go from there.

Charity has long been an often used action. Doesn’t take govt handouts to cause it.

[jesmu84]

Regarding the bolded. The stimulus plan actually granted pass through entities close to $100B in additional tax breaks. Phase 4 wants to expand those cuts, and add more cuts to capital gains and dividends, along with other tax breaks earmarked for the rich.

That is one of the reasons individuals want to hold state funding and hospital funding for phase 4, so they can ram through massive tax breaks for the 1%.

Of course. I'm personally still waiting for the trickle down from the last tax cuts.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Charity has long been an often used action. Doesn’t take govt handouts to cause it.

Libs dont do donations to charity.  They believe that the government should take care of all social needs.

[reinko]

Libs dont do donations to charity.  They believe that the government should take care of all social needs.

C’mon Z.

[jesmu84]

Charity has long been an often used action. Doesn’t take govt handouts to cause it.

That's not at all what I said or implied.

Look beyond your biases

[Jay Bee]

That's not at all what I said or implied.

What did you say? Better change dem words boi

[Jockey]

Did you remind her that you haven’t worked in years?

I do think there are a lot of people who don’t NEED the money (now, at least) who are receiving it... but I do recognize there’s not a great way to differentiate when you’re dealing with the situation at hand.

Ahhh well

Retired early several years back. I ain’t rich - we are about as middle class as possible. But we want for nothing. Other people aren’t as lucky as we are and food pantries are as busy as I have ever seen them. They can use the money.

I encourage others who are able, to contribute in which ever way you choose.

[Jay Bee]

Retired early several years back. I ain’t rich - we are about as middle class as possible. But we want for nothing. Other people aren’t as lucky as we are and food pantries are as busy as I have ever seen them. They can use the money.

I encourage others who are able, to contribute in which ever way you choose.

Not interested in sharing my history of charity & volunteerism other than to say (for MU82) that it has been perfect. It seems that you may get surprised that there are actually caring, giving INDIVIDUALS out there. Without getting undeserved checks from the govt (Re-distribution, ultimately).

I am curious, however, about your claim of being “as middle class as possible”... what does that mean? Please define. Also, curious why you “retired early”?

For me, I hope to retire early if I’m OK with not working and have the financial stability to do so.

[reinko]

Not interested in sharing my history of charity & volunteerism other than to say (for MU82) that it has been perfect. It seems that you may get surprised that there are actually caring, giving INDIVIDUALS out there. Without getting undeserved checks from the govt (Re-distribution, ultimately).

I am curious, however, about your claim of being “as middle class as possible”... what does that mean? Please define. Also, curious why you “retired early”?

For me, I hope to retire early if I’m OK with not working and have the financial stability to do so.

TRIGGGGGGEEEEERRRREDDDDD

[tower912]

Back on point.    Get the science, testing, etc lined up and universal.    Take care of the small businesses, the stockboys, the truck drivers, the Amazon, Fed Ex, UPS, USPS personnel.   Take care of the nurses.     Take care of the medical students being pressed into service for testing and treatment.       Extend and enhance unemployment.   Make it possible to reopen and have revenue in the pipeline to spend to speed up the recovery.   

But most of all, have a freaking plan.     For testing.    For research.    For the reopening.     

[GooooMarquette]

Back on point.    Get the science, testing, etc lined up and universal.    Take care of the small businesses, the stockboys, the truck drivers, the Amazon, Fed Ex, UPS, USPS personnel.   Take care of the nurses.     Take care of the medical students being pressed into service for testing and treatment.       Extend and enhance unemployment.   Make it possible to reopen and have revenue in the pipeline to spend to speed up the recovery.   

But most of all, have a freaking plan.     For testing.    For research.    For the reopening.   

Yes, but I don’t see it happening.

Science doesn’t do well under the current administration. “Instinct” rules the day.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Not interested in sharing my history of charity & volunteerism other than to say (for MU82) that it has been perfect. It seems that you may get surprised that there are actually caring, giving INDIVIDUALS out there. Without getting undeserved checks from the govt (Re-distribution, ultimately).

I am curious, however, about your claim of being “as middle class as possible”... what does that mean? Please define. Also, curious why you “retired early”?

For me, I hope to retire early if I’m OK with not working and have the financial stability to do so.

I'm not that concerned about what people "deserve," because that's a rabbit hole where no one will ever emerge from.  I'm more concerned about what people need.

[shoothoops]

The money needs to get directly to the people that need it.

Whether it is Ruth's Chris or Shake Shack getting small business loans, spoiler alert, they are not small businesses, or stock buy backs and dividends and executive bonuses, instead of paying employees salary and healthcare...like the Marriott example here...or Amazon not taking care of its workers despite a 1.2% tax rate on $13 billion in profits last year and a Bezos $24 billion net worth increase in a matter of recent weeks...and so it goes....the disconnect rolls on....

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/business/business-roundtable-coronavirus.html#click=https://t.co/NaaPymz6VT

[4everwarriors]

1. I think you're intelligent.

But you either don't know what this word means and therefore are using it incorrectly or you are intentionally saying the wrong thing.

2. All of the proposed stimulus measures are short-term. So, ya, people are gonna have to go back to work whether they want to or not.

Oh, you're right. I'll correct that to Marxist-Leninist.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Oh, you're right. I'll correct that to Marxist-Leninist.

That's not accurate either.

[#UnleashSean]

If not, I see complaints, because you essentially get to live for free if you are renting, but just get delayed payments if you own. I bet a bunch of people would not be ok with that.

Hold up now, I made the same argument about working while others got paychecks bigger then their normal ones while sitting at home.

All I got waa "lifes not fair bruh be glad your risking your life"

[tower912]

  I feel ya.   Going out and risking my life every day only to be told in non-cataclysmic times that I am an overpaid underachiever who doesn't deserve a pension and am contributing to the bankrupting of America.    You'll get used to it.   

 Lay out your principles for the next round of stimulus and reopening.   I know that we do not have aligned viewpoints, but I am 100% interested in hearing how a thoughtful person with a different viewpoint wants to handle the stimulus and the re-opening.    And BTW, your work should have been more appreciated all along.   

[forgetful]

Hold up now, I made the same argument about working while others got paychecks bigger then their normal ones while sitting at home.

All I got waa "lifes not fair bruh be glad your risking your life"

1. I never said "lifes not fair bruh be glad your risking your life"

2. I didn't say I have a problem with some getting to live rent free. I said that would be the complaint by a significant number of people that may make that proposal politically untenable.

[jesmu84]

Hold up now, I made the same argument about working while others got paychecks bigger then their normal ones while sitting at home.

All I got waa "lifes not fair bruh be glad your risking your life"

Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I don't think anyone is getting a bigger paycheck off unemployment compared to what they were getting while working.

As I understand it, people can earn up to $75k on unemployment to match what they were earning at their job. "Match" not "you will get $75k even if you were only making $50k at your job."

[Hards Alumni]

Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I don't think anyone is getting a bigger paycheck off unemployment compared to what they were getting while working.

As I understand it, people can earn up to $75k on unemployment to match what they were earning at their job. "Match" not "you will get $75k even if you were only making $50k at your job."

I have employees that want to stay on unemployment because they get that and then $600 more... amounts to $22/hr.  Can someone explain this?  Why would my employees want to take the PPP money we applied for to keep them employed?  Makes no financial sense for them.

I hope I did the math wrong, but I'm not sure I did.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I have employees that want to stay on unemployment because they get that and then $600 more... amounts to $22/hr.  Can someone explain this?  Why would my employees want to take the PPP money we applied for to keep them employed?  Makes no financial sense for them.

I hope I did the math wrong, but I'm not sure I did.

I found out about this through a younger family member.  I think what you report is accurate. 

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I have employees that want to stay on unemployment because they get that and then $600 more... amounts to $22/hr.  Can someone explain this?  Why would my employees want to take the PPP money we applied for to keep them employed?  Makes no financial sense for them.

I hope I did the math wrong, but I'm not sure I did.

They would have had to been laid off or furloughed to get unemployment.  Did you lay them off or furlough them?  There's your answer.

[Hards Alumni]

They would have had to been laid off or furloughed to get unemployment.  Did you lay them off or furlough them?  There's your answer.

Well, obviously.  You don't just get to choose to be on unemployment.  lol

They were furloughed.  But you see the problem, right?

As their employer I'm put in an impossible situation.  Either I say they have to come back at full time (even though they get to stay home) as a much reduced wage, or they remain on unemployment at $22/hr... And I have to tell them to come back because the PPP isn't free money.  I have to use it and pay interest on it.

So I'm going to have a lot of pissed employees.