MU's guards, status quo edition

[tower912]

I am not as bearish (I rarely am) as some about MU's guard situation for 20-21 if they fail to land an immediately eligible transfer.    Sure, it would be nice to bring in a guard talented enough to start or take the lead, but failing that, some act as if things will be as bad as when Crean had to have Marcus Jackson bring the ball up against Western Michigan.    Of course, my optimism is predicated on the pie-in-the-sky notion of good health for all 4.     
    All have size, all have played the point.     I foresee Symir and Koby starting and playing 25 each.    Greg 20.  Dexter 10.   Symir will play all of his minutes at the point.   Either Greg or Koby will play the point when Symir sits.    If, as I envision, the forwards are Bailey and Garcia, I am not worried about pressure as both handle the ball well and it is rare to have 4 defenders on the floor at the same time who can play man-to-man for 94 feet. 
   I won't hazard a guess yet what their record will be.   Hell, I won't hazard a guess that there will be a season.   But, if MU rides with the 10 already in the fold, I am more worried about defense than offense.   

[MU82]

Reasonable, optimistic (but not overly so), logical take.

Shame on you, man. This is Scoop!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm guessing NIT.  If there is an NIT.  If there is a season.

[The Lens]

I'm guessing NIT.  If there is an NIT.  If there is a season.

If there is a world (JayBee'd)

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

The in-house guard situation is scary bad.  Can't convince me otherwise.  Symir may be a dude as an upperclassman, and I expect him to be better next season than he was this past, but he's certainly not going to be a go-to player next season.   

Greg and Koby are best suited as bench players.  No one knows what we have with Dexter.

That's it.  That's the guard picture as we stand right now.

We BADLY need Carton (and a subsequent waiver).

[tower912]

The in-house guard situation is scary bad.  Can't convince me otherwise.  Symir may be a dude as an upperclassman, and I expect him to be better next season than he was this past, but he's certainly not going to be a go-to player next season.   

Greg and Koby are best suited as bench players.  No one knows what we have with Dexter.

That's it.  That's the guard picture as we stand right now.

We BADLY need Carton (and a subsequent waiver).

Scary bad is starting a season with 3 guards and one of them is Chartouny.   Or having Joe Chapman as the only healthy guard and therefore having Marcus Jackson bring the ball up.

This is a lot of unknowns and injury history.  There is upside here.

[panda]

The upside is that we haven't seen three of the four play significant minutes yet.

This is a classic glass half full vs. glass half empty debate.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Scary bad is starting a season with 3 guards and one of them is Chartouny.   Or having Joe Chapman as the only healthy guard and therefore having Marcus Jackson bring the ball up.

This is a lot of unknowns and injury history.  There is upside here.

Meh.  I don't really see it.  I see a guy that looked over matched against higher level competition (Koby), and guy who has struggled to stay healthy and has been nothing more than an energy guy when he plays (Greg), an interesting PG project who is probably at least another year away from being a focal point of high major team (Sy), and an unhearalded recruit none of us have seen play (Dex). 

I don't see the upside.  I think Sy and maybe even Greg could be high very good CBB players down the road, just not counting on it for next season. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Scary bad is starting a season with 3 guards and one of them is Chartouny.   

Yeah.  Who's the Markus with this bunch?

[MU82]

Meh.  I don't really see it.  I see a guy that looked over matched against higher level competition (Koby), and guy who has struggled to stay healthy and has been nothing more than an energy guy when he plays (Greg), an interesting PG project who is probably at least another year away from being a focal point of high major team (Sy), and an unhearalded recruit none of us have seen play (Dex). 

I don't see the upside.  I think Sy and maybe even Greg could be high very good CBB players down the road, just not counting on it for next season.

I agree that it's smart to temper expectations of this quartet.

Still, when I think of "scary bad" Marquette backcourts of relatively recent vintage, I think of the one Buzz trotted out game after game after effen game his final season.

I mean, none of those 4 will shoot .071 from 3 and .442 from the line while averaging 30.8 mpg next season.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I agree that it's smart to temper expectations of this quartet.

Still, when I think of "scary bad" Marquette backcourts of relatively recent vintage, I think of the one Buzz trotted out game after game after effen game his final season.

I mean, none of those 4 will shoot .071 from 3 and .442 from the line while averaging 30.8 mpg next season.

Maybe "scary bad" wasn't the right wording.  How about "under .500 bad"? 

[MU82]

Maybe "scary bad" wasn't the right wording.  How about "under .500 bad"?

Could happen, sure.

Or not.

[tower912]

I don't see them competing with a healthy Golden State backcourt.   I think all have an upside.

[zcg2013]

Does anyone else believe so much of the slump from Koby is due to the injury he suffered? I saw some mention that his hand injury never fully healed but I have to think he has to spend his offseason just figuring out emotional control.

That being said, the wide unknown is terrifying for next year (in all worldly facets) but we need to look for some optimism.

[Uncle Rico]

Does anyone else believe so much of the slump from Koby is due to the injury he suffered? I saw some mention that his hand injury never fully healed but I have to think he has to spend his offseason just figuring out emotional control.

That being said, the wide unknown is terrifying for next year (in all worldly facets) but we need to look for some optimism.

I think skepticism is more than warranted.  I don't think optimism is crazy, either.  I think Sy has the tools to be a Golden Eagle.  But whether he puts it together or not, I don't know.  It's a great unknown

[tower912]

Does anyone else believe so much of the slump from Koby is due to the injury he suffered? I saw some mention that his hand injury never fully healed but I have to think he has to spend his offseason just figuring out emotional control.

That being said, the wide unknown is terrifying for next year (in all worldly facets) but we need to look for some optimism.

You could see him flinch from time to time.  I think he went through a slump, injured the hand, and was never able to really regain his form.

And yes, all 4 are unknowns.   So wariness is justified.

[Lennys Tap]

You could see him flinch from time to time.  I think he went through a slump, injured the hand, and was never able to really regain his form.

And yes, all 4 are unknowns.   So wariness is justified.

All 4 are not "unknowns". Greg has been here for 3 years. He has big trouble staying healthy and when he can play Wojo has decided he's a back up, even to a player struggling as much as Koby. Koby started 31 games for us and played big minutes. He was great in a few games, OK in a few others and bad to awful in a bunch. Symir shows some potential as a floor general but was so bad on D he played very little. Dexter wasn't rated highly out of high school and was redshirted.

A more honest assessment is we know quite a bit and most of what we know isn't encouraging. Wojo agrees - if he didn't we wouldn't be "teaching out" to pretty much every guard in the transfer portal.

[wadesworld]

All 4 are not "unknowns". Greg has been here for 3 years. He has big trouble staying healthy and when he can play Wojo has decided he's a back up, even to a player struggling as much as Koby. Koby started 31 games for us and played big minutes. He was great in a few games, OK in a few others and bad to awful in a bunch. Symir shows some potential as a floor general but was so bad on D he played very little. Dexter wasn't rated highly out of high school and was redshirted.

A more honest assessment is we know quite a bit and most of what we know isn't encouraging. Wojo agrees - if he didn't we wouldn't be "teaching out" to pretty much every guard in the transfer portal.

We probably would be "reaching (I assume) out" to pretty much every guard in the portal even if it was Symir and Greg who graduated and we returned Markus and Sacar. We have 4 guards. Even if we play 2 forwards and a center for 40 minutes for every game, you're still filling 2 spots with 4 total players and have 3 scholarships available. Injury to one guy while foul trouble to one or two in a game and you are in big trouble. Why would you not reach out to every guard out there and see if there's interest?

[WarriorFan]

I was looking for a thread like this... thanks Tower for starting it. 

Symir passes the eye test, has natural PG skills, and the best thing about Freshmen is they become sophomores.
Kobe struggled but also showed incredible bright spots.  Whether he improves remains to be seen, but he was PG on a team that was headed for the NCAA tournament, was good against the press, has good size, and plays good D.  Maybe he's a full sized Derrek Wilson in the end... who knows
Greg has great upside, can make the 3 and get to the rim.  if he can somehow stay healthy would be a major contributor.
Dexter has had a year to develop... let's see.

Lots of posters are saying this team has "no" guards.  I count 4, all with excellent upside. 

The challenge is, will Wojo run an offense that doesn't rely on one guy taking (and making) all the shots?  Can he develop something that gets people open?  If the offense doesn't change, MU will really suck next year because giving any of these guys more than 10 shots per game is more than they can contribute... unless they are wide open layups, dunks etc.

[GB Warrior]

Keys to the season:

1. Finx the fairy godmother who cast a spell on Koby for end of regulation and OT1 @ Xavier and get her on staff

[Lennys Tap]

We probably would be "reaching (I assume) out" to pretty much every guard in the portal even if it was Symir and Greg who graduated and we returned Markus and Sacar. We have 4 guards. Even if we play 2 forwards and a center for 40 minutes for every game, you're still filling 2 spots with 4 total players and have 3 scholarships available. Injury to one guy while foul trouble to one or two in a game and you are in big trouble. Why would you not reach out to every guard out there and see if there's interest?

Do you honestly think Burton, Turner, DeJulius, Carton and Mane were/are being recruited as back ups? Wojo is looking for a starting PG and a starting SG because he doesn't think he'll win much with what he has. A preseason #77 ranking agrees. So do I.

[wadesworld]

Do you honestly think Burton, Turner, DeJulius, Carton and Mane were/are being recruited as back ups? Wojo is looking for a starting PG and a starting SG because he doesn't think he'll win much with what he has. A preseason #77 ranking agrees. So do I.

Who said that? You like to try to put words in people's mouths. You implied Wojo wouldn't be offering those guys if he thought Greg, Symir, Koby, and Dexter were studs. I'm fairly confident, though I can't be certain, that no matter how good those four are, four guards aren't enough when you have three scholarships to fill.

But hey, maybe if he thought those four were studs he'd just go after some scrub guards to keep a bench seat warm.

[Lennys Tap]

Who said that? You like to try to put words in people's mouths. You implied Wojo wouldn't be offering those guys if he thought Greg, Symir, Koby, and Dexter were studs. I'm fairly confident, though I can't be certain, that no matter how good those four are, four guards aren't enough when you have three scholarships to fill.

But hey, maybe if he thought those four were studs he'd just go after some scrub guards to keep a bench seat warm.

If the 4 guards we had were studs Wojo would be recruiting a back up guard or two, not looking for an entirely new starting backcourt. And "those guys" would have had zero interest in coming in to play behind our "studs".

We have 4 back up level guards. If we get two more back up level guards we'll have 6 back up level guards. That will move the needle not at all.

We need back court guys who are BE quality starters. Right now we have no one who has proven he fits that description.

[wadesworld]

If the 4 guards we had were studs Wojo would be recruiting a back up guard or two, not looking for an entirely new starting backcourt. And "those guys" would have had zero interest in coming in to play behind our "studs".

We have 4 back up level guards. If we get two more back up level guards we'll have 6 back up level guards. That will move the needle not at all.

We need back court guys who are BE quality starters. Right now we have no one who has proven he fits that description.

So why would Wojo bother going after Michael Foster or Kendall Brown?  Does he already not consider Osa or Garcia to be studs/starting caliber BE wings/forwards?

Regardless of how good Wojo feels about the players he already has on the roster, I'd hope he'd go after the best players he could.

[Lennys Tap]

So why would Wojo bother going after Michael Foster or Kendall Brown?  Does he already not consider Osa or Garcia to be studs/starting caliber BE wings/forwards?

Regardless of how good Wojo feels about the players he already has on the roster, I'd hope he'd go after the best players he could.

Well, if you think Greg, Koby, Symir and Dexter are proven studs, no big deal. Odd opinions are the life blood of the internet.

If Wojo thinks they're studs, though, we've got a real problem. I'm comforted by the fact that he seems to want a starting backcourt different from the one he has now and is doing everything he can to insure it. Two "noes" today, hopefully a couple of "yeses" in the future. If not, it'll be a long, cold winter in Beertown next year.