If restaurants open in May (for dine-in), are you going/taking your family?

[Jockey]

I changed my wording to "encouraging" cause rooting was a wrongly intended word choice.  And without getting political, I absolutely do believe there are plenty of people, politicians or otherwise, who would sacrifice anything and everything business wise if it means 1 less life is lost.  Look at the reaction to the stimulus, instead of it being a tourniquet to prevent businesses or people from bleeding out, many look at it like "problem solved, now we just sit until this is 'over'".  The government may help me not have to lay off my staff this spring, but it certainly wont help or keep my business alive the longer this goes.

I respect people with an abundance of caution and the way they go about their personal lives.  But the take every precaution and risk nothing till absolutely certain route will bankrupt a lot of people, simple as that.

I wont address the rest cause Im trying to avoid the political pissing contest this place has become.  I have talked at length about embracing testing and "middle" strategies.  I just see the profound effect the "worst case scenario" mentality has on people's outlook, including my employees and extended family and friends.

I continue to find your arguments pretty reasonable. Since I quit working a few years ago, I am out of the loop and need to see opinions from guys in your position. I can't agree with all you say, but generally am on board.

I think back to Mid-February when I ran into the CEO of the company I worked for at a restaurant. Her big concern was China and the effects on sourcing. How times have changed in 8 weeks.

My big worry about fully buying in to your view is what happens if the virus flares up again? I just think that might be worse that waiting a little longer to open up. But I don't have to weigh the pros and cons like you do.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Tom Tomorrow is great.
He's a local artist here in New Haven.

[Pakuni]

You are flat out wrong that this goes against all scientific evidence to date. I provided a peer reviewed article from one of the premier journals in the world that says so. And I never said I feared getting the disease that way, I said the risk outweighs any benefit to me.

I'll make these points and drop it:

1. The studies you've linked don't say what you claimed they say, or what you said initially. In fact, you're not even arguing what you argued initially. It's gone from "food is a possible source of infection" to "there is an oral path to infection" (on the latter ..  of course, because what we inhale through our mouths can go into the respiratory system).

2. "The CDC wax wrong on X, therefore they're probably wrong on Y" is neither valid argument or data.

3. Conspiracy theories about the "nuanced" language of the studies you linked are neither helpful or data. conclusions. The language isn't nuanced. It's speculative, and not even speculative about what you're claiming.

[forgetful]

I'll make these points and drop it:

1. The studies you've linked don't say what you claimed they say, or what you said initially. In fact, you're not even arguing what you argued initially. It's gone from "food is a possible source of infection" to "there is an oral path to infection" (on the latter ..  of course, because what we inhale through our mouths can go into the respiratory system).

2. "The CDC wax wrong on X, therefore they're probably wrong on Y" is neither valid argument or data.

3. Conspiracy theories about the "nuanced" language of the studies you linked are neither helpful or data. conclusions. The language isn't nuanced. It's speculative, and not even speculative about what you're claiming.

On 1: this was my very first statement: "You can disinfect the outside containers, but not the food itself, allowing for an oral route of infection." So I guess you now agree with me that there is an oral route of infection.

On 2: Never said that. You were the one who said I was definitively wrong, because of the CDC. I pointed out they have been wrong before.

On 3: Not a conspiracy theory. That is how science messaging works at the politics level.

[Pakuni]

On 1: this was my very first statement: "You can disinfect the outside containers, but not the food itself, allowing for an oral route of infection." So I guess you now agree with me that there is an oral route of infection.

Dammit ... you're making a liar of me, because I have to respond to this. You're completely misstating what I've written. Nowhere have I written there isn't an oral route of infection. In fact, I've written the opposite. But that oral route is through the inhalation of infected respiratory droplets into the lungs through the mouth. It's not from eating food, as you seem to believe. Unless you're somehow inhaling  tacos and slices of pizza into your respiratory system (I'd generally recommend against that, pandemic or not), you're not catching the virus from food.
And nothing in any of the studies you link says otherwise. Which you seem to admit, judging by your theory that they're obscuring the truth here. (Side note: Is it ever a good argument when you suggest that the evidence you're relying upon is less than honest?)

Don't like the CDC? Fine. Here are experts from Vanderbilt, Rutgers, Villanova, the University of Washington who all say your worries are not supported by the evidence. Have they all missed the evidence you found on Google?
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/08/822903487/how-safe-is-it-to-eat-take-out

I'll leave it be now. (I think).

[JWags85]

I continue to find your arguments pretty reasonable. Since I quit working a few years ago, I am out of the loop and need to see opinions from guys in your position. I can't agree with all you say, but generally am on board.

I think back to Mid-February when I ran into the CEO of the company I worked for at a restaurant. Her big concern was China and the effects on sourcing. How times have changed in 8 weeks.

My big worry about fully buying in to your view is what happens if the virus flares up again? I just think that might be worse that waiting a little longer to open up. But I don't have to weigh the pros and cons like you do.

Appreciate the kind words, truly.

The bolded is the crux. "A little while longer" aka 4-6 weeks past what looks like a near term peak in some hot spots like NYC/CA makes sense. PPP grants going out this week would cover employers till the second week in June. The next month would function for a lot of international facing small-mid sized businesses like December or a late summer month in Europe, limited productivity, but eyes on your next orders and moves after the holidays. Personally, we've sort of laid out how to handle it, and as mentioned, it would allow for a pay period or 2 post-reopening, which would actually be fantastic and helpful to restarting.

But the "little while longer" I've seen from some, talking about August/early fall. Sheesh.  There is nothing you can do or plan for with a projected 3-4 month dead period.  Anywhere else globally, be it China or Asia or Europe that has needs, will fill them elsewhere.  You'll be out of business cycles. You're gonna have to start a cold motor, instead of rewarming one that's idling. That's my biggest fear and that's what worries me about the most cautious and safe-looking plans floating around.  And I know we've gotten sidetracked from the topic of the thread, but it's just my reaction from all variations of uber precaution. Whether it be not eating takeout as mentioned here, or people saying we should have no sports or concerts until late 2021. It's just a prevailing mentality and mindset that worries me greatly.

[keefe]

I've got a beard right now for the first time in my life.  I just decided, "what the heck."  Not a big fan.  My wife actually likes it...or likes the way it looks, anyway.

With all the Brazilian salons shuttered the Bearded Clam look is making a big comeback

[keefe]

I am a scientist by training but I am a co-founder and co-owner of a small business, that is not my area of expertise

Man, I mean, like, you know, the whole science thing just wasn't cool, you know. I mean, like, they didn't think, like, you know, playing the Dead at work was, like, intensely...uh...what was I saying...

[forgetful]

Man, I mean, like, you know, the whole science thing just wasn't cool, you know. I mean, like, they didn't think, like, you know, playing the Dead at work was, like, intensely...uh...what was I saying...

Unfortunately, you are incorrect on the line of business. Not the cannabis industry. But thank you for editing my quote to make it read like I was high when I wrote it.

One of my former trainees though is currently peripheral to that industry. He is founding a company involved in testing and validation of cannabinoids in commercial products. His timing was terrible though, was just starting to get it up and running before this coronavirus thing hit.

[rocky_warrior]

Don't like the CDC? Fine. Here are experts from Vanderbilt, Rutgers, Villanova, the University of Washington who all say your worries are not supported by the evidence. Have they all missed the evidence you found on Google?
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/08/822903487/how-safe-is-it-to-eat-take-out

I'll leave it be now. (I think).

Not trying to make you get back into the conversation... but here's my thoughts based on your link...

1) They all seem to be basing their opinions based off of previous Coronavirus research (i.e. every common cold ever). This one is novel...and seems to spread MUCH more easily
2) there's no current evidence to suggest... but we're dealing with something that was just "realized" about 4 months ago.  There's a lot to learn still, and it obviously spreads MUCH more easily than other Coronavirus'
3) As discussed in the conspiracy thread with people alone in their cars with masks on, I can't really fault anyone for being more cautious than "suggested" seeing how little is known about spread, and how little time has existed to study this.

FWIW, I'm a healthy guy, active, not overweight, hike/ski at elevation regularly. But I also suffer from allergy induced asthma.  My allergist tells me I have lung capacity that mere mortals can only dream of.  But I also know how it feels when you can barely breathe - and your lungs can't absorb enough O2.  Most people get disoriented and panic.  This thing scares the hell out of me. Not enough is known, and extra precautions - including avoiding take out - are not crazy if you're looking to avoid getting sick.

[MU82]

Went to an eatery today to grab something to go. Aside from the dine-in area being roped off, there were no signs a coronavirus pandemic was going on.

There were no floor markings or barriers in place to keep customers 6 feet apart. The employees were not wearing masks. Only the employee who handled the food wore gloves; the one handling transactions did not. I had to physically hand my credit card to an employee, who swiped it and handed it back; most establishments now let the customer insert cards themselves. That employee and I definitely were closer than 6 feet apart during the handling of the credit card. There was no plastic shield in place to protect either of us.

Pretty disappointed about how lackadaisically they are taking this, and I am likely to steer clear of it either until acceptable measures are put in place or until the pandemic threat has passed.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Pretty disappointed about how lackadaisically they are taking this, and I am likely to steer clear of it either until acceptable measures are put in place or until the pandemic threat has passed.

So did you eat the food?  If so, what is the point of this part.

[Warriors4ever]

Why would you go back?

[GooooMarquette]

FWIW, I'm a healthy guy, active, not overweight, hike/ski at elevation regularly. But I also suffer from allergy induced asthma.  My allergist tells me I have lung capacity that mere mortals can only dream of.  But I also know how it feels when you can barely breathe - and your lungs can't absorb enough O2.  Most people get disoriented and panic.  This thing scares the hell out of me. Not enough is known, and extra precautions - including avoiding take out - are not crazy if you're looking to avoid getting sick.

I'm pretty much in the same boat...except that my occasional asthma is triggered by vigorous exercise in cold weather. I have spent a lifetime running marathons, cycling long distances, and hiking challenging trails. Living in MN, much of that occurs in cold weather.

So like you, even though I don't consider myself "sick" and my pre-existing respiratory condition is a very limited one, it is scary as hell to think it might land me on a ventilator if I get COVID. As a result, even when they open more places, I am still going to wait until we have truly comprehensive testing and contact tracing, and perhaps even better treatment options, before I go back to anything resembling a normal social life.

[MU82]

So did you eat the food?  If so, what is the point of this part.

You know ... we did. So I guess we're the dopes.

[keefe]

Went to an eatery today to grab something to go. Aside from the dine-in area being roped off, there were no signs a coronavirus pandemic was going on.

There were no floor markings or barriers in place to keep customers 6 feet apart. The employees were not wearing masks. Only the employee who handled the food wore gloves; the one handling transactions did not. I had to physically hand my credit card to an employee, who swiped it and handed it back; most establishments now let the customer insert cards themselves. That employee and I definitely were closer than 6 feet apart during the handling of the credit card. There was no plastic shield in place to protect either of us.

Pretty disappointed about how lackadaisically they are taking this, and I am likely to steer clear of it either until acceptable measures are put in place or until the pandemic threat has passed.

Reminds me of a chance encounter I had with an F 18 Driver I knew who also had a less than appetizing dining experience:

Warthog Driver: "Hornet Man. Was that you I saw with a Sea Monster the other night?"

Naval Aviator: (Hangs his head in shame) "Yea, that was me. Not only did she look like a river pig but she smelled like a Hyderabad sewer during a cholera outbreak and her snatch was hairier than the Mekong Delta during the Tet Offensive."

Warthog Driver: "Wow. But hey, did you bone her?"

Naval Aviator:" Well, yea, of course I did!"

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

There seems to be a study for everything. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/health/airflow-coronavirus-restaurants.html

[Warriors4ever]

https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/restaurants-air-conditioning-tied-to-9-covid-19-cases-among-diners-who-sat-near-single-infected-person/

Story from China.

[pbiflyer]

Given the local idiots behavior and seemingly intent on going against every social distancing recommendation, I will not for quite a while.
Read posts where people say they can't wait to go out and rub their hands on everything, a la the NBA idiot.

[rocky_warrior]

Given the local idiots behavior and seemingly intent on going against every social distancing recommendation, I will not for quite a while.
Read posts where people say they can't wait to go out and rub their hands on everything, a la the NBA idiot.

Yeah  - In the next few weeks I'm going to have to start getting on planes and flying/traveling again.  But I'll still try to be super vigilant, and avoid all unnecessary social situation.

[tower912]

Last night marked the 10th different locally owned restaurant we have gotten carry out from in the last 5 weeks.   Spreading it around.

[Skatastrophy]

Last night marked the 10th different locally owned restaurant we have gotten carry out from in the last 5 weeks.   Spreading it around.

I've been focusing my efforts. I picked Harolds Chicken #88 as the restaurant I'm going to try to keep open. I'm doing everything I can, including a lot of exercising...

[Galway Eagle]

Food poisoning from carry out yesterday. Made me think that restaurants are probably pushing dates on food and focusing on getting rid of old inventory. Stock up on Probiotics, charcoal, pedialyte and ginger if you're going to get carry out sea food.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Food poisoning from carry out yesterday. Made me think that restaurants are probably pushing dates on food and focusing on getting rid of old inventory. Stock up on Probiotics, charcoal, pedialyte and ginger if you're going to get carry out sea food.

Galway,
Funny you say this.  Over the weekend we got takeout from our neighborhood pizza and Italian place.  One of the side salads that came with a meal just did not look fresh (unusual for this restaurant) and my wife ended up just dumping in our backyard compost pit.

[pbiflyer]

Last night marked the 10th different locally owned restaurant we have gotten carry out from in the last 5 weeks.   Spreading it around.

We were trying to do this, but then noticed some were not themselves practicing safety measures. Place we got lunches decided they didn't need to use masks when interacting with customers. Bye.  Won't be visiting after this is over either.
There are a couple that were irresponsible with distancing until forced to close their dining areas. Bye. Won't be visiting after this is over either.
We are now, as others, focusing on a few to support, ones we know and know they are practicing good safety measures. Oh, and the staff gets really generous tips.