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Author Topic: Vaccine/Antibody updates  (Read 262901 times)

MUfan12

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3200 on: July 29, 2021, 01:44:19 PM »
Is the position on that for Delta basically morphing to "we don't know so just wear a mask all the time"  ?

Delta, then every variant to follow.

The Lens

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3201 on: July 29, 2021, 01:59:50 PM »
If we have to wear a mask again, then let's wear a mask.

It's a once in a 100 year pandemic.  600K Americans are dead.  Beating it is going to require some sacrifice.  Sorry you're so put out. 
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MUfan12

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3202 on: July 29, 2021, 02:08:57 PM »
Beating it is going to require some sacrifice.

And what have the majority of people been doing since last March?

Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3203 on: July 29, 2021, 02:10:40 PM »
Yeah the issue isn't that wearing a mask is hard.  It's that we have to wear one because certain segments of our society won't take care of themselves.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Lens

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3204 on: July 29, 2021, 02:17:15 PM »
And what have the majority of people been doing since last March?

I’m talking to mouth breathers, not you
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Pakuni

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3205 on: July 29, 2021, 02:22:16 PM »
I agree, Zig. Peep the numbers in 53206. This is just as much, if not more of an issue, than the anti-vax right.

Now the CDC dropped this gem:

"UPDATED testing guidance: If a fully vaccinated person has a known exposure to someone with suspected or confirmed COVID-19,
@CDCgov recommends getting tested 3-5 days after exposure and wearing a mask in public indoor settings for 14 days or until they receive a negative result."

Right back at square one, giving fuel to the vaccine skeptics. JTFC.

Riiiiiggghhhtt ... this is why there are vaccine skeptics.

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3206 on: July 29, 2021, 03:04:40 PM »
If we have to wear a mask again, then let's wear a mask.

It's a once in a 100 year pandemic.  600K Americans are dead.  Beating it is going to require some sacrifice.  Sorry you're so put out.

If you are asking everyone to sacrifice, OK.

If only the people who have already sacrificed are being asked to do it again while those that are killing people continue to skate, no thanks.

We had many politicians and TV stations that pushed death, called for more death. Let them sacrifice now.

MUfan12

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3207 on: July 29, 2021, 03:34:26 PM »
Riiiiiggghhhtt ... this is why there are vaccine skeptics.

That's not what I said, and you know it.

It's another thing for the hesitant to point to and say "Why should I get it, then?"

I'm not defending that POV at all. But when there's this sharp reversal of course, it detracts from their pro-vaccine message.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 03:37:11 PM by MUfan12 »

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3208 on: July 29, 2021, 03:45:28 PM »
That's not what I said, and you know it.

It's another thing for the hesitant to point to and say "Why should I get it, then?"

I'm not defending that POV at all. But when there's this sharp reversal of course, it detracts from their pro-vaccine message.

I know what you mean, but the message has to be real.  If the virus mutates and vaccinated people transmit.  Then we need to change.  It doesnt change the fact that it greatly reduces severity and infections.

Scott Gottlieb made a good point that is dead on for Delta.  The CDC is a retroactive agency.  It studies outbreak and then publishes findings/recommendations.  We need something much more proactive so that we arent tacking mid outbreak when it is likely already too late. 

Conversely, the guidance will change again and we will learn more....people need to have that mindset and not be 'shocked or offended' when it happens. 

tower912

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3209 on: July 29, 2021, 03:52:25 PM »
The virus is relentless.    It will do whatever it takes to survive.    Mutate, adapt.     

Humans aren't relentless.     They won't do whatever it takes to beat the virus.     Whine, blame, look for shortcuts, choose ignorance. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Pakuni

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3210 on: July 29, 2021, 04:07:32 PM »
That's not what I said, and you know it.

It's another thing for the hesitant to point to and say "Why should I get it, then?"

I'm not defending that POV at all. But when there's this sharp reversal of course, it detracts from their pro-vaccine message.

My point isn't that you're defending their POV. My point is that it's asinine to blame CDC messaging for encouraging or entrenching their POV.
If these people listened to what CDC says or took its messaging seriously, they'd have been vaccinated long ago. But they haven't been vaccinated, because they ignore the CDC.
You can't blame CDC messaging for the behavior of people who we know ignore CDC messaging.
It's just a false rationalization and feeble excuse for their anti-science stupidity, which in the vast majority of instances is born out of belief in conspiracy theories and junk science, not any legitimate concern about the CDC or its messaging.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2021, 04:11:28 PM by Pakuni »

Uncle Rico

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3211 on: July 29, 2021, 04:13:07 PM »
My point isn't that you're defending their POV. My point is that it's asinine to blame CDC messaging for encouraging or entrenching their POV.
If these people listened to what CDC says or took its messaging seriously, they'd have been vaccinated long ago. But they haven't been vaccinated, because they ignore the CDC.
You can't blame CDC messaging for the behavior of people who we know ignore CDC messaging.
It's just a false rationalization and feeble excuse for their anti-science stupidity, which in the vast majority of instances is born out of belief in conspiracy theories and junk science.
And you know it.

The CDC has opened themselves to being vilified.  They’ve been a disaster from the beginning of the pandemic up to now.  A lot of it is political and a lot of it is institutional fear of being over cautious.  This began at the CDC a long time ago when it went from an independent entity to a government controlled agency. 

That doesn’t excuse the anti-science, anti-vax backlash, however.  All these things mixed in a cauldron brew a toxic potion
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Jockey

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3212 on: July 29, 2021, 04:16:30 PM »
That's not what I said, and you know it.

It's another thing for the hesitant to point to and say "Why should I get it, then?"

I'm not defending that POV at all. But when there's this sharp reversal of course, it detracts from their pro-vaccine message.

No it doesn’t.

Pakuni

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3213 on: July 29, 2021, 04:50:22 PM »
The CDC has opened themselves to being vilified.  They’ve been a disaster from the beginning of the pandemic up to now.  A lot of it is political and a lot of it is institutional fear of being over cautious.  This began at the CDC a long time ago when it went from an independent entity to a government controlled agency. 

That doesn’t excuse the anti-science, anti-vax backlash, however.  All these things mixed in a cauldron brew a toxic potion

You're not wrong. But it doesn't matter. Anti-vaxxers aren't anti-vaxxers because of anything the CDC has done or failed to do.
People have this mistaken (IMO) idea that if only the CDC had said "X" instead of "Y,"these people would have taken the shot. Maybe in a handful of instances that's true, but the vast, vast majority aren't taking their cues the CDC and never have. Their listening to Facebook or Reddit or OANN, etc.
By and large, these people are well beyond being persuaded by fact and reason. The only thing that might change their minds at this point is they or someone they love ends up in a hospital bed or a coffin.

 

forgetful

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3214 on: July 29, 2021, 10:11:01 PM »
Yeah the messaging on this has really gone sideways.  My understanding pre-Delta was that it was virtually impossible for a vaccinated person with a breakthrough case to infect another vaccinated person.  And the chances are low, but not non-existent that a vaccinated person with a breakthrough case could infect an unvaccinated person - most importantly, kids.

Is the position on that for Delta basically morphing to "we don't know so just wear a mask all the time"  ?

I think there was widespread misunderstanding of the concept that a vaccinated person with a breakthrough case could not infect others. That was never true.

Breakthrough cases in vaccinated people can most certainly infect others, and has infected others. For symptomatic breakthrough cases the viral load was slightly lower, but most definitely sufficient for being infectious.

The question was whether an asymptomatic breakthrough case could infect others. The early studies of these cases suggested that the viral loads were low enough that the risk of infecting others would be minimal, but non-zero.

For Delta, the viral loads in general are substantially higher. And there is a much higher likelihood of symptomatic breakthrough cases. In these instances, like regular COVID, vaccinated breakthrough cases will be infectious prior to becoming symptomatic. Which means it is essential for people with known exposure to quarantine whether they are vaccinated or not.

It is not a "we don't know." We do know, but definitive confirmation of these things requires a lot of data, and review. Things are now to the point where there is enough internal data to verify how much worse Delta was. The larger datasets essentially confirmed what was being observed in smaller datasets around the world.

jesmu84

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3215 on: July 30, 2021, 08:10:11 AM »
How about we come to a compromise:

Vaccine passports that double as voter ID.

Who says no?

The Lens

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3216 on: July 30, 2021, 08:28:34 AM »
How about we come to a compromise:

Vaccine passports that double as voter ID.

Who says no?

I've definitely drifted left politically in the past 5 years but this is still one that I can't wrap my head around. You need an ID for everything.  Make them free and create a 4 year clock to requirement.  Shouldn't be that hard.
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

forgetful

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3217 on: July 30, 2021, 09:16:57 AM »
I've definitely drifted left politically in the past 5 years but this is still one that I can't wrap my head around. You need an ID for everything.  Make them free and create a 4 year clock to requirement.  Shouldn't be that hard.

The problem is in many rural African American communities, child births were often done at home in the past, and birth certificates weren't exactly obtained. For these individuals, getting an ID is nearly impossible, especially with their income levels.

So do they get excluded? If so it is likely a constitutional violation.

Pakuni

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3218 on: July 30, 2021, 11:51:14 AM »
I've definitely drifted left politically in the past 5 years but this is still one that I can't wrap my head around. You need an ID for everything.  Make them free and create a 4 year clock to requirement.  Shouldn't be that hard.

You can legally buy a gun in dozens of states (at gun shows, online, in private transactions) without an ID.
If you thought the Venn diagram between these states and the states pushing hardest for voter ID laws looks an awful lot like a circle, you'd be correct.

jesmu84

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3219 on: July 30, 2021, 06:04:54 PM »
Biden authorizing $100 for anyone getting vaccinated.

There's the "carrot".

When will the "stick" come out?

rocket surgeon

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3220 on: July 30, 2021, 07:46:28 PM »
The problem is in many rural African American communities, child births were often done at home in the past, and birth certificates weren't exactly obtained. For these individuals, getting an ID is nearly impossible, especially with their income levels.

So do they get excluded? If so it is likely a constitutional violation.

is this a problem?  i hear about it being thrown out there a lot, but haven't seen many documented cases to put it into the category of being a "problem".  they mandate an ID for cigarettes for God's sake even when one is clearly over 21.  most polls i see show a majority of people in agreement for voter ID.  if one can get gubmint assistance, they must have some sort of ID...please
"I got hairy legs that turn blonde in the sun. The kids used to come up and reach in the pool & rub my leg down so it was straight ..i learned about kids jumping on my lap and i've loved kids jumping on my lap"

jesmu84

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3221 on: July 30, 2021, 07:58:35 PM »
is this a problem?  i hear about it being thrown out there a lot, but haven't seen many documented cases to put it into the category of being a "problem".  they mandate an ID for cigarettes for God's sake even when one is clearly over 21.  most polls i see show a majority of people in agreement for voter ID.  if one can get gubmint assistance, they must have some sort of ID...please

So, does this mean you support any populist stance? Or are you merely using this as a data point in your support for voter ID?

rocket surgeon

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3222 on: July 30, 2021, 08:02:46 PM »
You can legally buy a gun in dozens of states (at gun shows, online, in private transactions) without an ID.
If you thought the Venn diagram between these states and the states pushing hardest for voter ID laws looks an awful lot like a circle, you'd be correct.

people love to make this argument, but purchases of a gun without an ID amounts to only a "SMALL fraction".  unfortunately, the people who use guns to carry out illegal activities probably make up a  majority of these. 


https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/feb/22/viral-image/fact-checking-meme-id-requirements-buying-guns-vot/

if you distinguish between licensed and UN-licensed sellers-

"While it is possible in many states to buy a firearm without an ID by seeking out an unlicensed seller, such purchases account for a fraction of all sales. Gun shops and other types of brick-and-mortar stores — where background checks are required — account for a majority of purchases."
"I got hairy legs that turn blonde in the sun. The kids used to come up and reach in the pool & rub my leg down so it was straight ..i learned about kids jumping on my lap and i've loved kids jumping on my lap"

rocket surgeon

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3223 on: July 30, 2021, 08:04:04 PM »
So, does this mean you support any populist stance? Or are you merely using this as a data point in your support for voter ID?

not going to step into that steamer, but fwiw, just sayin
"I got hairy legs that turn blonde in the sun. The kids used to come up and reach in the pool & rub my leg down so it was straight ..i learned about kids jumping on my lap and i've loved kids jumping on my lap"

Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: Vaccine/Antibody updates
« Reply #3224 on: July 30, 2021, 08:21:42 PM »
not going to step into that steamer, but fwiw, just sayin

So so weak.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

 

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