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[forgetful]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SharriMarkson/status/1398252182609154056

You want to charge someone with reckless homicide?!?!?  Start with this guy and his other scientist buddies who knew all along they were playing with fire.

Gain of function research is going to be conducted somewhere, even more likely that someone does it for nefarious purposes.

So do we ban it in the US, out of fear of an accident. Or do we allow it under stringent rules?

Remember, gain of function research led to the identification of Remdesivir as a potential potent therapy against Coronaviruses (like COVID) back in 2017. Without that gain of function research, we may not have had such a therapy.

[forgetful]

  completely agree tower, but WHO and china are hooked at the wallet.  unless we get full transparency(don't hold our breath)we will never learn from this and it will happen again. the world needs to unite against china and make them pay. china has #46 by the short hairs and can't even come clean on his biness dealings with hunter inc.  speakin of impeachable offenses

    maybe le'bron and the NBA can help? 

Regarding the bolded. Let's say it was a result of a lab accident. You say make them pay.

Should we make all the countries that had crappy responses, leading to it spreading more widely pay also? China's response was actually infinitely better than that of the rest of the world. If countries had tested all people returning from China (remember the CDC under Trump refused to do so, because invasion of privacy), it would have most likely been contained.

Do we make the US pay for helping fund the research that led the accident?

The fact of the matter is that regardless of origin, even a lab accident, the fault doesn't lie in the accident alone, but rather a culmination of absurdly poor handling by people and nations around the world. We need to find the origin of this, but not for blame/punishment purposes. There is tons of blame to go around everywhere. The purpose of investigations should be to determine what everyone should have done different and/or better, so that this doesn't happen at this severity again.

[JWags85]

Regarding the bolded. Let's say it was a result of a lab accident. You say make them pay.

Should we make all the countries that had crappy responses, leading to it spreading more widely pay also? China's response was actually infinitely better than that of the rest of the world. If countries had tested all people returning from China (remember the CDC under Trump refused to do so, because invasion of privacy), it would have most likely been contained.

Do we make the US pay for helping fund the research that led the accident?

The fact of the matter is that regardless of origin, even a lab accident, the fault doesn't lie in the accident alone, but rather a culmination of absurdly poor handling by people and nations around the world. We need to find the origin of this, but not for blame/punishment purposes. There is tons of blame to go around everywhere. The purpose of investigations should be to determine what everyone should have done different and/or better, so that this doesn't happen at this severity again.

I have no issue with the majority of your post but the bolded is laughable because it takes China directly and literally for their word.  Wuhan was a disaster for weeks but we’re supposed to believe a city of over 10MM at the epicenter of the pandemic had cases in less than 1% of their population, much less the rest of China? The fact that they literally stopped counting last March makes me doubtful of anything they say.  90K cases and 4K deaths in all of China isn’t just massaging the numbers, it’s outright lies.

[forgetful]

I have no issue with the majority of your post but the bolded is laughable because it takes China directly and literally for their word.  Wuhan was a disaster for weeks but we’re supposed to believe a city of over 10MM at the epicenter of the pandemic had cases in less than 1% of their population, much less the rest of China? The fact that they literally stopped counting last March makes me doubtful of anything they say.  90K cases and 4K deaths in all of China isn’t just massaging the numbers, it’s outright lies.

I agree that their official numbers are lies, but I know enough people in China and even Wuhan to be aware that their overall response was more successful in squashing spread and deaths.

That is one of the advantages of being an oppressive regime.

[Lennys Tap]

An investigation is being started.  It can only go so far if the Chinese don't cooperate.    As we learned when the WHO conducted an investigation.   Truth and honesty would be the ideal so that all the necessary lessons can be learned and shared.   I am not optimistic.

I put the chances of China “cooperating” with a legitimate investigation at slightly less than 0%. First, it’s just not their style. Second, very likely they already know the answer to “WTF happened?”. Pretty sure they’re not eager for the rest of the world to know.

[rocket surgeon]

  " the fault doesn't lie in the accident alone, but rather a culmination of absurdly poor handling by people and nations around the world. We need to find the origin of this, but not for blame/punishment purposes"


  go re-read what the "experts" were saying early on.  like january-february.  pelosi, deblasio, et.al. were saying come to our place, china town all good, 45 is a xenophobe, fauci-masks are only for show and do no good...china wasn't helping while they continued while disallowing domestic travel from wuhan to other major cities within, they urged international carriers to maintain their schedules.

the world did not really know what we were dealing with, but someone(umm, the chinese, doc tony etc) knew.  dr li and a few others
 did know, but their health prevented them from disclosing too much, eyn'a? .  so, according to your thinking forget, because of china's control over it's servants, they prevented the virus from spreading so around their own country?  they also prevented the rest of the world from knowing what the hell we were dealing with

[pacearrow02]

Gain of function research is going to be conducted somewhere, even more likely that someone does it for nefarious purposes.

So do we ban it in the US, out of fear of an accident. Or do we allow it under stringent rules?

Remember, gain of function research led to the identification of Remdesivir as a potential potent therapy against Coronaviruses (like COVID) back in 2017. Without that gain of function research, we may not have had such a therapy.

So you’re arguing if this pandemic was the result of a lab leak related to gain of function research it’s worth it cause without gain of function research we wouldn’t have remdesivir?

Millions of lives lost, global economies turned on their head but don’t worry guys.  We have flipping remdesivir!!!!

Goodness.

[Jockey]

I agree that their official numbers are lies, but I know enough people in China and even Wuhan to be aware that their overall response was more successful in squashing spread and deaths.

That is one of the advantages of being an oppressive regime.

You’re right, Forgetful. Of course China isn’t going to be honest, but we were just as much at fault. We knew China locked down a city of 10,000,000. We knew they were quick building multiple 1,000+ bed hospitals. We knew thousands of people had flown from Wuhan all around the globe. We had people in January sounding the alarm in the US that a pandemic was imminent.

But the people from government that could have saved us had been fired by trump. Pandemic plans created over the previous 15 years had been thrown in the garbage.

The CDC is not a quick reaction force. They are a government agency who mainly investigates and reports. They are not on the leading edge fighting new diseases.

We knew what was happening. We ignored the advice of experts. Instead we were told to follow the advice of a fool who just wanted to ignore it and have it go away. We paid the price. 600,000 people are dead - the majority unnecessarily.

[rocket surgeon]

You’re right, Forgetful. Of course China isn’t going to be honest, but we were just as much at fault. We knew China locked down a city of 10,000,000. We knew they were quick building multiple 1,000+ bed hospitals. We knew thousands of people had flown from Wuhan all around the globe. We had people in January sounding the alarm in the US that a pandemic was imminent.

But the people from government that could have saved us had been fired by trump. Pandemic plans created over the previous 15 years had been thrown in the garbage.

The CDC is not a quick reaction force. They are a government agency who mainly investigates and reports. They are not on the leading edge fighting new diseases.

We knew what was happening. We ignored the advice of experts. Instead we were told to follow the advice of a fool who just wanted to ignore it and have it go away. We paid the price. 600,000 people are dead - the majority unnecessarily.

so people were sounding the alarm in january?  didn't nance get the message?  don't remember trump firing pelosi.  so should we sometimes listen to the CDC and sometimes not? 

february 24. 2020

"That’s what we’re trying to do today is to say everything is fine here," Pelosi said. "Come because precautions have been taken. The city is on top of the situation."

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/nancy-pelosi-visits-san-franciscos-chinatown/2240247/

don't recall deblasio getting fired either-this article from march 30, 2020. 

cuomo and witmer released thousands back into the nursing homes

  https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/30/de-blasio-nyc-officials-downplayed-covid-19-threat-after-trump-restricted-travel-to-china-here-are-5-examples/

"
"Instead we were told to follow the advice of a FOOL who just wanted to ignore it and have it go away. We paid the price. 600,000 people are dead - the majority unnecessarily."

   so pelosi, deblasio and others were ignoring 45's warnings cuz he was a xenophobe and stuff

this is so emblematic of the left's view of what really happened, but when all you are tuned into is cnn, msnbc, cbs, abc, the view...nevermind

[pacearrow02]

You’re right, Forgetful. Of course China isn’t going to be honest, but we were just as much at fault. We knew China locked down a city of 10,000,000. We knew they were quick building multiple 1,000+ bed hospitals. We knew thousands of people had flown from Wuhan all around the globe. We had people in January sounding the alarm in the US that a pandemic was imminent.

But the people from government that could have saved us had been fired by trump. Pandemic plans created over the previous 15 years had been thrown in the garbage.

The CDC is not a quick reaction force. They are a government agency who mainly investigates and reports. They are not on the leading edge fighting new diseases.

We knew what was happening. We ignored the advice of experts. Instead we were told to follow the advice of a fool who just wanted to ignore it and have it go away. We paid the price. 600,000 people are dead - the majority unnecessarily.

I believe before a single death happened here we put in travel restrictions against the advice of our leading medical expert on infectious diseases.  I’ve asked 100x’s what is it that we didn’t do in those early days that we were advised to do. 

Every time I ask for a specific example I get crickets or something Trump said well into the pandemic that was indeed moronic (Liberate, bleach etc) but while stupid no policy to inject bleach was imposed so aside from a dumb comment it had no effect.

[Jockey]

I believe before a single death happened here we put in travel restrictions against the advice of our leading medical expert on infectious diseases.  I’ve asked 100x’s what is it that we didn’t do in those early days that we were advised to do. 

Every time I ask for a specific example I get crickets or something Trump said well into the pandemic that was indeed moronic (Liberate, bleach etc) but while stupid no policy to inject bleach was imposed so aside from a dumb comment it had no effect.

#1.  Travel restrictions after the virus was already here - and probably fairly widespread - were useless. They did absolutely nothing to stop the spread.

I could write an MU82 length dissertation here, but to keep it short, I’ll just say what they should have done first and second:

1) Once China shut down Wuhan, they should have done a data study on how many people flew out of Wuhan to the US. We knew it was probably in the 1000s and we needed to know where they landed.

2) in the cities where flights from Wuhan landed, there should have been hospital studies. The number of people who came in with flu-like symptoms with the percentage that tested negative. All those who tested negative could then be assumed to have Covid and could be isolated.

3) Shutdown immediately and fully. Isolation and social distancing are the 2 most effective tools in the box.

4) Take the threat seriously. The experts were all saying what was going to happen.

Many, many people were telling us what to do, but most of them had been removed from government service already by trump. 

[rocket surgeon]

#1.  Travel restrictions after the virus was already here - and probably fairly widespread - were useless. They did absolutely nothing to stop the spread.

I could write an MU82 length dissertation here, but to keep it short, I’ll just say what they should have done first and second:

1) Once China shut down Wuhan, they should have done a data study on how many people flew out of Wuhan to the US. We knew it was probably in the 1000s and we needed to know where they landed.

2) in the cities where flights from Wuhan landed, there should have been hospital studies. The number of people who came in with flu-like symptoms with the percentage that tested negative. All those who tested negative could then be assumed to have Covid and could be isolated.

3) Shutdown immediately and fully. Isolation and social distancing are the 2 most effective tools in the box.

4) Take the threat seriously. The experts were all saying what was going to happen.

Many, many people were telling us what to do, but most of them had been removed from government service already by trump.

everybody's a monday morning QB.  what his "leaders" and "experts" said was ok though.  45, despite all the partisan hate and constant msm spew, he did many things right.  as pace said however, mistakes were made.  this was so politicized at our expense.  we needed to work together as a country to overcome this, but as we saw...yeah right

[pacearrow02]

#1.  Travel restrictions after the virus was already here - and probably fairly widespread - were useless. They did absolutely nothing to stop the spread.

I could write an MU82 length dissertation here, but to keep it short, I’ll just say what they should have done first and second:

1) Once China shut down Wuhan, they should have done a data study on how many people flew out of Wuhan to the US. We knew it was probably in the 1000s and we needed to know where they landed.

2) in the cities where flights from Wuhan landed, there should have been hospital studies. The number of people who came in with flu-like symptoms with the percentage that tested negative. All those who tested negative could then be assumed to have Covid and could be isolated.

3) Shutdown immediately and fully. Isolation and social distancing are the 2 most effective tools in the box.

4) Take the threat seriously. The experts were all saying what was going to happen.

Many, many people were telling us what to do, but most of them had been removed from government service already by trump.

Would love to see a source showing one “expert” saying any of the above things early on. 

You said experts weren’t listened to early on.  Listing out things you would have done differently (with the benefit of hindsight) doesn’t quite hit the mark.  You’re a lot of things jockey but an expert on infectious disease control isn’t one I’d put at the top of the list.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

everybody's a monday morning QB.  what his "leaders" and "experts" said was ok though.  45, despite all the partisan hate and constant msm spew, he did many things right.  as pace said however, mistakes were made.  this was so politicized at our expense.  we needed to work together as a country to overcome this, but as we saw...yeah right

I mean, who do you think politicized this? Who ignored medical advice?  Who encouraged people to “liberate” state governments?  Who actually caught Covid because he held events that openly flaunted best practices?

[MU82]

I believe before a single death happened here we put in travel restrictions against the advice of our leading medical expert on infectious diseases.  I’ve asked 100x’s what is it that we didn’t do in those early days that we were advised to do. 

Every time I ask for a specific example I get crickets or something Trump said well into the pandemic that was indeed moronic (Liberate, bleach etc) but while stupid no policy to inject bleach was imposed so aside from a dumb comment it had no effect.

Awhile back in another thread, at the request of a Trump supporter, several Scoopers listed numerous horrific mistakes that Trump and his cohorts made regarding Covid. Those were met mostly with crickets. Not gonna waste time again, because you don’t really want to hear them.

But I do like the way you casually dismiss your hero’s LIBERATE rant. 18 hours earlier, he had laid out specific guidelines with specific benchmarks for states to be able to reopen the economy. Then he undid all that with a series of tweets telling his armed terrorists that it was ok for them to LIBERATE their states by force, even though those states were nowhere near having met his own guidelines.

That WAS policy.

Even if people totally give Trump a pass on everything from the early hours of the pandemic to April 16 - not saying we should, but even if we did - just about everything he did from April 17 on was a total disaster. His acts, words and policies led to hundreds of thousands of dead Americans on his watch. It led to economic ruin for hundreds of thousands more. And it led to him getting rejected by more voters than any politician in the history of our democratic republic.

[forgetful]

So you’re arguing if this pandemic was the result of a lab leak related to gain of function research it’s worth it cause without gain of function research we wouldn’t have remdesivir?

Millions of lives lost, global economies turned on their head but don’t worry guys.  We have flipping remdesivir!!!!

Goodness.

Way to read into what I posted in the way that serves your argument best.

Read the very first line of my post. The most important thing is that gain of function research is going to be done by others...period. And very likely would be done by bad actors looking to cause catastrophes. Not to mention it is being done through natural mechanisms in every one of these bat caves.

So us banning gain of function research just blocks our ability to find treatments and cures from otherwise incurable diseases. It doesn't block the risk.

[Jockey]

Would love to see a source showing one “expert” saying any of the above things early on. 

You said experts weren’t listened to early on.  Listing out things you would have done differently (with the benefit of hindsight) doesn’t quite hit the mark.  You’re a lot of things jockey but an expert on infectious disease control isn’t one I’d put at the top of the list.

You are not smart enough to discuss this. Those were not my ideas. They were suggestions from government experts who had been fired.

[rocket surgeon]

I mean, who do you think politicized this? Who ignored medical advice?  Who encouraged people to “liberate” state governments?  Who actually caught Covid because he held events that openly flaunted best practices?

both sides dude.  as i said, this was politicized by all sides at OUR expense.  both sides could have done better for the benefit of OUR country and the world.  big power struggle going on yet today.  history will repeat itself unless the real truth comes out-what was the origin of the virus and how can steps be taken so this never happens again. 

   pace made a great point-is gain of function worth the risks?  world wide pandemic, millions of lives lost, lives affected forever(no pun intended), economical disasters...

whenever gain of function is being undertaken, absolute transparency, supervision and safety precautions are obviously of utmost urgency and of eminent importance.   we cannot rely on WHO as a purveyor of world health. 

[rocket surgeon]

You are not smart enough to discuss this. Those were not my ideas. They were suggestions from government experts who had been fired.

name them...source?

[pacearrow02]

both sides dude.  as i said, this was politicized by all sides at OUR expense.  both sides could have done better for the benefit of OUR country and the world.  big power struggle going on yet today.  history will repeat itself unless the real truth comes out-what was the origin of the virus and how can steps be taken so this never happens again. 

   pace made a great point-is gain of function worth the risks?  world wide pandemic, millions of lives lost, lives affected forever(no pun intended), economical disasters...

whenever gain of function is being undertaken, absolute transparency, supervision and safety precautions are obviously of utmost urgency and of eminent importance.   we cannot rely on WHO as a purveyor of world health.

And if a lab leak happens while doing this gain of function people need to be put in jail for a long time not allowed to hide under the #keepsciencing bs

[Skatastrophy]

name them...source?

Yo, this is rich. You wouldn't know a good source if you were, say, at Marquette University trying to resubmit a paper that got sent back to you because your sources sucked.

And if a lab leak happens while doing this gain of function people need to be put in jail for a long time not allowed to hide under the #keepsciencing bs

I swear to god you two didn't go to college.

[🏀]

The AP and Reuters are no longer reputable sources?

You guys are completely in the woods. Build a bunker and stay in there until another Trump is in office for your own sake.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

both sides dude.  as i said, this was politicized by all sides at OUR expense.  both sides could have done better for the benefit of OUR country and the world.  big power struggle going on yet today.  history will repeat itself unless the real truth comes out-what was the origin of the virus and how can steps be taken so this never happens again. 

   pace made a great point-is gain of function worth the risks?  world wide pandemic, millions of lives lost, lives affected forever(no pun intended), economical disasters...

whenever gain of function is being undertaken, absolute transparency, supervision and safety precautions are obviously of utmost urgency and of eminent importance.   we cannot rely on WHO as a purveyor of world health. 

Blah blah blah..."both sides."

Be smarter please.

[jesmu84]

both sides dude.  as i said, this was politicized by all sides at OUR expense.  both sides could have done better for the benefit of OUR country and the world.  big power struggle going on yet today.  history will repeat itself unless the real truth comes out-what was the origin of the virus and how can steps be taken so this never happens again. 

   pace made a great point-is gain of function worth the risks?  world wide pandemic, millions of lives lost, lives affected forever(no pun intended), economical disasters...

whenever gain of function is being undertaken, absolute transparency, supervision and safety precautions are obviously of utmost urgency and of eminent importance.   we cannot rely on WHO as a purveyor of world health.

If it is ultimately determined that this indeed jumped from an animal to a human, how would it be prevented in the future? There are humans all around the world that interact with and eat animals in dirty conditions because that's life.

You seem to be implying that there is only one possible true origin - the lab leak.

[pacearrow02]

Yo, this is rich. You wouldn't know a good source if you were, say, at Marquette University trying to resubmit a paper that got sent back to you because your sources sucked.

I swear to god you two didn't go to college.

Yo, instead of being a prick.....just find an article, interview, anything suggesting what jockey posted was being said by experts in January, Feb, March of 2020.