Reimbursements?

[wadesworld]

So will colleges be giving reimbursements for room and board, meal plans, etc.? I'm guessing no, but they should.

[forgetful]

So will colleges be giving reimbursements for room and board, meal plans, etc.? I'm guessing no, but they should.

No, they will not. I agree with you that technically they should, but all that would cause is Universities to raise tuition and room and board next year to cover the lost revenue.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

No, they will not. I agree with you that technically they should, but all that would cause is Universities to raise tuition and room and board next year to cover the lost revenue.

That's not the case at all. I know that many schools are considering it and trying to find a way to make it as fair as possible without breaking the financial model.

I also know the school where I work has set tuition and room and board for next year and not once have we had a discussion about changing it regardless of what is reimbursed to students.

[mu_hilltopper]

Not to mention .. the value of these online courses are far lower than face to face.  I mean, if you dropped $40k on tuition and a quarter of it was not well done .. ouch.

And .. how do they work around lab requirements?   What if you were in Dental or Med school, especially the final year?

What a mess.

[GooooMarquette]

Not to mention .. the value of these online courses are far lower than face to face.  I mean, if you dropped $40k on tuition and a quarter of it was not well done .. ouch.

And .. how do they work around lab requirements?   What if you were in Dental or Med school, especially the final year?

What a mess.

Or law school, where many of the classes are back and forth discussions, as opposed to didactic lectures. My daughter is a second year at U of MN, and is not happy with the online move. And they haven't yet told her how they plan to manage the moot court class she's in.

[forgetful]

That's not the case at all. I know that many schools are considering it and trying to find a way to make it as fair as possible without breaking the financial model.

I also know the school where I work has set tuition and room and board for next year and not once have we had a discussion about changing it regardless of what is reimbursed to students.

I did speak too soon on that, and was wrong, it looks like many universities will give a prorated reimbursement for room and board.

But this will lead to one of two outcomes. 1) They raise tuition and room/board. It doesn't have to be immediately next year. 2) Faculty and staff get no raises (administrators will keep their raises).

[rocket surgeon]

So will colleges be giving reimbursements for room and board, meal plans, etc.? I'm guessing no, but they should.

might as well just start now by making everything free-so much simpler

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I did speak too soon on that, and was wrong, it looks like many universities will give a prorated reimbursement for room and board.

But this will lead to one of two outcomes. 1) They raise tuition and room/board. It doesn't have to be immediately next year. 2) Faculty and staff get no raises (administrators will keep their raises).

Now you're just grinding axes. #1 can never be proven and wrt #2, I have never worked for an institution where the pay increases differed from one class of employees to another.

[muwarrior69]

Or law school, where many of the classes are back and forth discussions, as opposed to didactic lectures. My daughter is a second year at U of MN, and is not happy with the online move. And they haven't yet told her how they plan to manage the moot court class she's in.

Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year, less than 100 so far from the corona virus; complete  over reaction IMHO. Be prudent, but shut down completely? I'm in my 70s and more at risk than college age students, yet I still go to the gym with my wife, but practice good hygiene .

[wadesworld]

Now you're just grinding axes. #1 can never be proven and wrt #2, I have never worked for an institution where the pay increases differed from one class of employees to another.

Yeah in my experience the bonuses for employees would be where the "hit" might come in, but usually the biggest hit (in terms of percentage/receiving their "max" bonus) would actually be the executive level (but the amount would still be substantially more than an entry level position's).

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year, less than 100 so far from the corona virus; complete  over reaction IMHO. Be prudent, but shut down completely? I'm in my 70s and more at risk than college age students, yet I still go to the gym with my wife, but practice good hygiene .

"Less than 100?"  WTF are you talking about?

And no one said you couldn't go to the gym.

[forgetful]

Yeah in my experience the bonuses for employees would be where the "hit" might come in, but usually the biggest hit (in terms of percentage/receiving their "max" bonus) would actually be the executive level (but the amount would still be substantially more than an entry level position's).

It's easy to show that this is not the case at Universities. You can look up the pay for the top administrators in the form 990's, or other public sites where you can look at their pay. Administrators pay always goes up faster than the rest of faculty and staff.

We might be using different terms, but I'm referring to annual raises as a percentage of their pay.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It's easy to show that this is not the case at Universities. You can look up the pay for the top administrators in the form 990's, or other public sites where you can look at their pay. Administrators pay always goes up faster than the rest of faculty and staff.

We might be using different terms, but I'm referring to annual raises as a percentage of their pay.

Most of the times it's a percentage yes.  But now you are moving the goalposts.  You said earlier that faculty and staff wouldn't get raises but administrators would.  I have never been at a school that has done anything of the sort.

[MUBurrow]

Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year, less than 100 so far from the corona virus; complete  over reaction IMHO. Be prudent, but shut down completely? I'm in my 70s and more at risk than college age students, yet I still go to the gym with my wife, but practice good hygiene .

https://twitter.com/david_j_roth/status/1238209009548775429

[StillAWarrior]

"Less than 100?"  WTF are you talking about?

It's pretty obvious what he's talking about from context, and he's correct: "Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year [in the US], less than 100 [have died] so far from the corona virus [in the US]..." In light of much of what I've read, I don't think that fact sheds much light on whether recent precautions are advisable, but what he said is factually correct.

[muwarrior69]

"Less than 100?"  WTF are you talking about?

And no one said you couldn't go to the gym.

In the US there are only 41 deaths so far due to the corona virus. GoMarquette's daughter is wondering how she is going to complete her law school course work for moot court. The university shut down for the entire rest of the semester which in my opinion is a complete over reaction, and I understand her frustration.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It's pretty obvious what he's talking about from context, and he's correct: "Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year [in the US], less than 100 [have died] so far from the corona virus [in the US]..." In light of much of what I've read, I don't think that fact sheds much light on whether recent precautions are advisable, but what he said is factually correct.

In the US is quite the qualifier though since this disease has hardly peaked here.  Where it has peaked, it has been more deadly than the flu.

[forgetful]

Most of the times it's a percentage yes.  But now you are moving the goalposts.  You said earlier that faculty and staff wouldn't get raises but administrators would.  I have never been at a school that has done anything of the sort.

I didn't move any goalposts. I just defined what I was referring to by raises, as percent, to avoid confusion between total dollar amounts, or bonuses.

I don't know what schools you worked at, but this is common everywhere. Administrators are not part of the regular wage pool, where raises are allocated. They are generally decided directly by the president and/or the board of trustees. In that regard they are usually not subject to the same "wage freezes" seen across the board.

The argument for why is that if they don't compensate them properly they can't have the best administrators. Same reason why coaches and AD's are not treated the same way as the faculty/staff.

I admitted I was wrong on the reimbursement, and spoke too soon. I know the numbers on the 2nd part, and I'm not wrong. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

But done with this discussion. You disagree that's fine, maybe your school is an outlier.

[StillAWarrior]

In the US is quite the qualifier though since this disease has hardly peaked here.  Where it has peaked, it has been more deadly than the flu.

I understand completely. My point was only that you asked what he was talking about and I explained...I took your post at face value. If you were just expressing disagreement with him, you should have just said so.

[drewm88]

Not to mention .. the value of these online courses are far lower than face to face.  I mean, if you dropped $40k on tuition and a quarter of it was not well done .. ouch.

And .. how do they work around lab requirements?   What if you were in Dental or Med school, especially the final year?

What a mess.

Don't necessarily agree that the value of online is much lower. There are a LOT of people who are teaching online in ways that far outstrip the average face-to-face. There will definitely be some struggles this spring because to do it well you need to do a lot of prep and hone your skills, not throw it together in a week. But I don't think people will suffer as much as you imply. And it's a global pandemic, we're all going to suffer in some ways and have to adjust.

Labs are an exception. No idea how that will work.

Or law school, where many of the classes are back and forth discussions, as opposed to didactic lectures. My daughter is a second year at U of MN, and is not happy with the online move. And they haven't yet told her how they plan to manage the moot court class she's in.

Quality back and forth discussion in an online class is not a very big hurdle. I don't know much about the operations of moot court, but I imagine that could also be transitioned without too much trouble.

My biggest concern in all this is that Zoom's servers are ready for this.

[StillAWarrior]

My biggest concern in all this is that Zoom's servers are ready for this.

We were discussing that yesterday evening. How many 10s of thousands of college students are going to be using Zoom starting next Monday morning? I really wonder if all of these colleges who are simultaneously moving to a "virtual learning environment" in the coming weeks are going to completely crash that system.

[mu_hilltopper]

Everyone has a google account, yes?  Use this instead:

https://hangouts.google.com/

Free video conferencing, etc.  Works great.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So a complicating problem when it comes to reimbursements is the financial aid aspect.  If refunds are issued, the cost to attend goes down.  This means they may have to give back what they are reimbursed to a loan or grant program so the net will be zero.  This will disproportionately impact those who are on the lower end of the income scale.  (Because they have the most unmet need.)

This is a reason why schools are looking at credits for the next year instead.  (Except obviously in the case of seniors.)

[skianth16]

So a complicating problem when it comes to reimbursements is the financial aid aspect.  If refunds are issued, the cost to attend goes down.  This means they may have to give back what they are reimbursed to a loan or grant program so the net will be zero.  This will disproportionately impact those who are on the lower end of the income scale.  (Because they have the most unmet need.)

This is a reason why schools are looking at credits for the next year instead.  (Except obviously in the case of seniors.)

I don't follow. Student A has $100 in their checking account. Student A receives a $2,500 refund for housing they are not using due to closures. Checking account is now at $2,600. Then Student A writes a check for $2,500 to the entity that issued it in the first place. Checking account balance is back to $100. Where is the negative impact?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't follow. Student A has $100 in their checking account. Student A receives a $2,500 refund for housing they are not using due to closures. Checking account is now at $2,600. Then Student A writes a check for $2,500 to the entity that issued it in the first place. Checking account balance is back to $100. Where is the negative impact?

Right. So why go though the effort at all? 

A credit for next year may give students a higher impact.