Reimbursements?

[wadesworld]

So will colleges be giving reimbursements for room and board, meal plans, etc.? I’m guessing no, but they should.

[forgetful]

So will colleges be giving reimbursements for room and board, meal plans, etc.? I’m guessing no, but they should.

No, they will not. I agree with you that technically they should, but all that would cause is Universities to raise tuition and room and board next year to cover the lost revenue.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

No, they will not. I agree with you that technically they should, but all that would cause is Universities to raise tuition and room and board next year to cover the lost revenue.

That’s not the case at all. I know that many schools are considering it and trying to find a way to make it as fair as possible without breaking the financial model.

I also know the school where I work has set tuition and room and board for next year and not once have we had a discussion about changing it regardless of what is reimbursed to students.

[mu_hilltopper]

Not to mention .. the value of these online courses are far lower than face to face.  I mean, if you dropped $40k on tuition and a quarter of it was not well done .. ouch.

And .. how do they work around lab requirements?   What if you were in Dental or Med school, especially the final year?

What a mess.

[GooooMarquette]

Not to mention .. the value of these online courses are far lower than face to face.  I mean, if you dropped $40k on tuition and a quarter of it was not well done .. ouch.

And .. how do they work around lab requirements?   What if you were in Dental or Med school, especially the final year?

What a mess.

Or law school, where many of the classes are back and forth discussions, as opposed to didactic lectures. My daughter is a second year at U of MN, and is not happy with the online move. And they haven’t yet told her how they plan to manage the moot court class she’s in.

[forgetful]

That’s not the case at all. I know that many schools are considering it and trying to find a way to make it as fair as possible without breaking the financial model.

I also know the school where I work has set tuition and room and board for next year and not once have we had a discussion about changing it regardless of what is reimbursed to students.

I did speak too soon on that, and was wrong, it looks like many universities will give a prorated reimbursement for room and board.

But this will lead to one of two outcomes. 1) They raise tuition and room/board. It doesn't have to be immediately next year. 2) Faculty and staff get no raises (administrators will keep their raises).

[rocket surgeon]

So will colleges be giving reimbursements for room and board, meal plans, etc.? I’m guessing no, but they should.

might as well just start now by making everything free-so much simpler

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I did speak too soon on that, and was wrong, it looks like many universities will give a prorated reimbursement for room and board.

But this will lead to one of two outcomes. 1) They raise tuition and room/board. It doesn't have to be immediately next year. 2) Faculty and staff get no raises (administrators will keep their raises).

Now you’re just grinding axes. #1 can never be proven and wrt #2, I have never worked for an institution where the pay increases differed from one class of employees to another.

[muwarrior69]

Or law school, where many of the classes are back and forth discussions, as opposed to didactic lectures. My daughter is a second year at U of MN, and is not happy with the online move. And they haven’t yet told her how they plan to manage the moot court class she’s in.

Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year, less than 100 so far from the corona virus; complete  over reaction IMHO. Be prudent, but shut down completely? I'm in my 70s and more at risk than college age students, yet I still go to the gym with my wife, but practice good hygiene .

[wadesworld]

Now you’re just grinding axes. #1 can never be proven and wrt #2, I have never worked for an institution where the pay increases differed from one class of employees to another.

Yeah in my experience the bonuses for employees would be where the "hit" might come in, but usually the biggest hit (in terms of percentage/receiving their "max" bonus) would actually be the executive level (but the amount would still be substantially more than an entry level position's).

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year, less than 100 so far from the corona virus; complete  over reaction IMHO. Be prudent, but shut down completely? I'm in my 70s and more at risk than college age students, yet I still go to the gym with my wife, but practice good hygiene .

"Less than 100?"  WTF are you talking about?

And no one said you couldn't go to the gym.

[forgetful]

Yeah in my experience the bonuses for employees would be where the "hit" might come in, but usually the biggest hit (in terms of percentage/receiving their "max" bonus) would actually be the executive level (but the amount would still be substantially more than an entry level position's).

It's easy to show that this is not the case at Universities. You can look up the pay for the top administrators in the form 990's, or other public sites where you can look at their pay. Administrators pay always goes up faster than the rest of faculty and staff.

We might be using different terms, but I'm referring to annual raises as a percentage of their pay.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It's easy to show that this is not the case at Universities. You can look up the pay for the top administrators in the form 990's, or other public sites where you can look at their pay. Administrators pay always goes up faster than the rest of faculty and staff.

We might be using different terms, but I'm referring to annual raises as a percentage of their pay.

Most of the times it's a percentage yes.  But now you are moving the goalposts.  You said earlier that faculty and staff wouldn't get raises but administrators would.  I have never been at a school that has done anything of the sort.

[MUBurrow]

Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year, less than 100 so far from the corona virus; complete  over reaction IMHO. Be prudent, but shut down completely? I'm in my 70s and more at risk than college age students, yet I still go to the gym with my wife, but practice good hygiene .

https://twitter.com/david_j_roth/status/1238209009548775429

[StillAWarrior]

"Less than 100?"  WTF are you talking about?

It's pretty obvious what he's talking about from context, and he's correct: "Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year [in the US], less than 100 [have died] so far from the corona virus [in the US]..." In light of much of what I've read, I don't think that fact sheds much light on whether recent precautions are advisable, but what he said is factually correct.

[muwarrior69]

"Less than 100?"  WTF are you talking about?

And no one said you couldn't go to the gym.

In the US there are only 41 deaths so far due to the corona virus. GoMarquette's daughter is wondering how she is going to complete her law school course work for moot court. The university shut down for the entire rest of the semester which in my opinion is a complete over reaction, and I understand her frustration.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It's pretty obvious what he's talking about from context, and he's correct: "Tens of thousands so far die from the flu this year [in the US], less than 100 [have died] so far from the corona virus [in the US]..." In light of much of what I've read, I don't think that fact sheds much light on whether recent precautions are advisable, but what he said is factually correct.

In the US is quite the qualifier though since this disease has hardly peaked here.  Where it has peaked, it has been more deadly than the flu.

[forgetful]

Most of the times it's a percentage yes.  But now you are moving the goalposts.  You said earlier that faculty and staff wouldn't get raises but administrators would.  I have never been at a school that has done anything of the sort.

I didn't move any goalposts. I just defined what I was referring to by raises, as percent, to avoid confusion between total dollar amounts, or bonuses.

I don't know what schools you worked at, but this is common everywhere. Administrators are not part of the regular wage pool, where raises are allocated. They are generally decided directly by the president and/or the board of trustees. In that regard they are usually not subject to the same "wage freezes" seen across the board.

The argument for why is that if they don't compensate them properly they can't have the best administrators. Same reason why coaches and AD's are not treated the same way as the faculty/staff.

I admitted I was wrong on the reimbursement, and spoke too soon. I know the numbers on the 2nd part, and I'm not wrong. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

But done with this discussion. You disagree that's fine, maybe your school is an outlier.

[StillAWarrior]

In the US is quite the qualifier though since this disease has hardly peaked here.  Where it has peaked, it has been more deadly than the flu.

I understand completely. My point was only that you asked what he was talking about and I explained...I took your post at face value. If you were just expressing disagreement with him, you should have just said so.

[drewm88]

Not to mention .. the value of these online courses are far lower than face to face.  I mean, if you dropped $40k on tuition and a quarter of it was not well done .. ouch.

And .. how do they work around lab requirements?   What if you were in Dental or Med school, especially the final year?

What a mess.

Don't necessarily agree that the value of online is much lower. There are a LOT of people who are teaching online in ways that far outstrip the average face-to-face. There will definitely be some struggles this spring because to do it well you need to do a lot of prep and hone your skills, not throw it together in a week. But I don't think people will suffer as much as you imply. And it's a global pandemic, we're all going to suffer in some ways and have to adjust.

Labs are an exception. No idea how that will work.

Or law school, where many of the classes are back and forth discussions, as opposed to didactic lectures. My daughter is a second year at U of MN, and is not happy with the online move. And they haven’t yet told her how they plan to manage the moot court class she’s in.

Quality back and forth discussion in an online class is not a very big hurdle. I don't know much about the operations of moot court, but I imagine that could also be transitioned without too much trouble.

My biggest concern in all this is that Zoom's servers are ready for this.

[StillAWarrior]

My biggest concern in all this is that Zoom's servers are ready for this.

We were discussing that yesterday evening. How many 10s of thousands of college students are going to be using Zoom starting next Monday morning? I really wonder if all of these colleges who are simultaneously moving to a "virtual learning environment" in the coming weeks are going to completely crash that system.

[mu_hilltopper]

Everyone has a google account, yes?  Use this instead:

https://hangouts.google.com/

Free video conferencing, etc.  Works great.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So a complicating problem when it comes to reimbursements is the financial aid aspect.  If refunds are issued, the cost to attend goes down.  This means they may have to give back what they are reimbursed to a loan or grant program so the net will be zero.  This will disproportionately impact those who are on the lower end of the income scale.  (Because they have the most unmet need.)

This is a reason why schools are looking at credits for the next year instead.  (Except obviously in the case of seniors.)

[skianth16]

So a complicating problem when it comes to reimbursements is the financial aid aspect.  If refunds are issued, the cost to attend goes down.  This means they may have to give back what they are reimbursed to a loan or grant program so the net will be zero.  This will disproportionately impact those who are on the lower end of the income scale.  (Because they have the most unmet need.)

This is a reason why schools are looking at credits for the next year instead.  (Except obviously in the case of seniors.)

I don't follow. Student A has $100 in their checking account. Student A receives a $2,500 refund for housing they are not using due to closures. Checking account is now at $2,600. Then Student A writes a check for $2,500 to the entity that issued it in the first place. Checking account balance is back to $100. Where is the negative impact?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't follow. Student A has $100 in their checking account. Student A receives a $2,500 refund for housing they are not using due to closures. Checking account is now at $2,600. Then Student A writes a check for $2,500 to the entity that issued it in the first place. Checking account balance is back to $100. Where is the negative impact?

Right. So why go though the effort at all? 

A credit for next year may give students a higher impact.

[skianth16]

Right. So why go though the effort at all? 

A credit for next year may give students a higher impact.

I get it for simplifying the process. That makes sense. I just didn't follow the negative effect for lower income students piece. Why would next year's credits offer a higher impact? Are you saying next year's credits are worth more, so by offering a credit for next year, the dollar value would go up?

ie- I get a 6 credit refund at a value of $500 per credit, so a $3,000 refund check. But if the next year's credits are $525 each, then providing me with 6 free credits next year would be worth $3,150? In effect saving me $150 next year?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I get it for simplifying the process. That makes sense. I just didn't follow the negative effect for lower income students piece. Why would next year's credits offer a higher impact? Are you saying next year's credits are worth more, so by offering a credit for next year, the dollar value would go up?

I’m saying those with less need are going to get more cash back with reimbursements.

Next year, assuming financial circumstances don’t change, it won’t really matter in the end with a credit. It will just be less hassle.

[GooooMarquette]

Everyone has a google account, yes?  Use this instead:

https://hangouts.google.com/

Free video conferencing, etc.  Works great.

But just like Zoom, I'd wonder if they have the capacity to handle virtually every college student in America using it at once. And then you add foreign college students, business meetings, perhaps eventually high schools, etc. Google is huge and I'm sure they have a lot of capacity, but that might put them over the top.

[StillAWarrior]

But just like Zoom, I'd wonder if they have the capacity to handle virtually every college student in America using it at once. And then you add foreign college students, business meetings, perhaps eventually high schools, etc. Google is huge and I'm sure they have a lot of capacity, but that might put them over the top.

My daughter from Purdue said it was up to each professor to decide which platform to use. She’ll be using several. That might help. Not sure if that was by design, or just everyone scrambling at the last minute.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Still gotta pay the administrators to post on Scoop all day, eh?

[StillAWarrior]

Georgetown is reimbursing. My daughter is driving to DC tomorrow to move out of her dorm. Crazy, crazy times.

[WarriorFan]

My son is at New York university which has panicked and told all the students to go away.  In that case there must be a refund.

Interestingly, my other son's high school switched to online learning last week and seems far more organized than the University.  They have a parent feedback process, a student feedback process, a mix of videos, notes, quizzes, tests, and physical assignments that the student must do at home (with video) and send the video back to the teacher.  Very impressive.  They're using zoom and google classroom.  Makes me not even consider asking them for a refund because they are so organized.

By the way, I'm paying 50% for the H.S. compared to the university.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My son is at New York university which has panicked and told all the students to go away.  In that case there must be a refund.

Interestingly, my other son's high school switched to online learning last week and seems far more organized than the University.  They have a parent feedback process, a student feedback process, a mix of videos, notes, quizzes, tests, and physical assignments that the student must do at home (with video) and send the video back to the teacher.  Very impressive.  They're using zoom and google classroom.  Makes me not even consider asking them for a refund because they are so organized.

By the way, I'm paying 50% for the H.S. compared to the university.

This doesn't surprise me.  The high school may have the online material already built in to the modules that they teach.  College professors have a much wider latittude, some of which is very difficult to put online.

[Eldon]

This doesn't surprise me.  The high school may have the online material already built in to the modules that they teach.  College professors have a much wider latittude, some of which is very difficult to put online.

I would also add that at many universities, teaching makes up a small fraction of what college professors do. 

At a premiere research university like NYU, it's probably not an exaggeration to say that the average professor spends only about 5% of their time teaching.  The other 95% is focused squarely on research.

NYU's tuition is steep, not because they have the best teachers, but because of its other benefits: being educated alongside very bright peers; tapping into its network of noteworthy alumni; access to top researchers; and, of course, the experience of being in New York City for the most formative years of your life.

[forgetful]

My son is at New York university which has panicked and told all the students to go away.  In that case there must be a refund.

Interestingly, my other son's high school switched to online learning last week and seems far more organized than the University.  They have a parent feedback process, a student feedback process, a mix of videos, notes, quizzes, tests, and physical assignments that the student must do at home (with video) and send the video back to the teacher.  Very impressive.  They're using zoom and google classroom.  Makes me not even consider asking them for a refund because they are so organized.

By the way, I'm paying 50% for the H.S. compared to the university.

Another aspect, beyond those listed by others above, is the rigor of the class. An entry level college class often will cover 3-4x the amount of material in a semester that a high school does. There are also more concerns that the rigor of the class is maintained in entry level classes so students aren't behind in classes that require it as a prerequisite.

In high school, they don't worry about those things, they just need to have contact hours, which is why so many high school kids are woefully unprepared for entry level college courses.

For upper level classes, there are often no books, nothing commercial, for the class. It is all professor generated, so you can't lean on some company for online materials in a pinch. Everything in high school courses is essentially a canned program, lots of easily available materials from commercial sources, so converting to online only just requires a google search.