Rebuild Assumptions

[#UnleashSean]

I think we would be able to get a coach who is either a more accomplished assistant or mid major head coach.  Either would be preferable to the top assistant of a failed head coach.

I'd stay away from top assistants of a good coach. We got burned on that once.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Disagree with the 4-6 year requirement.  A quick review of Marquette's history and one notes that Kevin O'Neill had the Warriors in the tourney in year 3, and Sweet 16 in year 4. 

Marquette was beyond a dumpster fire when he arrived, someone had stolen the dumpster.

This is absolutely true. 

I keep bumping into Wojo's ceiling and it is bruising my shins.  I, for one, would welcome a dumpster fire at this point on the belief that the MU program's ceiling with another coach is far higher than the slop we have been seeing.

[Aircraftcarrier]

Fluffy MU went the Mid major route twice and both were disasters.Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane.Neither could recruit a lick.I will pass on that option.Accomplished assistants such as Dwayne Stephens, Norm Roberts, Kenny Payne, Bino Ransom,Sherman Dilliard and Jon Scheyer.I don't think I would hire any of those guys over Stan.

[f/k/a humanlung]

Fluffy MU went the Mid major route twice and both were disasters.Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane.Neither could recruit a lick.I will pass on that option.Accomplished assistants such as Dwayne Stephens, Norm Roberts, Kenny Payne, Bino Ransom,Sherman Dilliard and Jon Scheyer.I don't think I would hire any of those guys over Stan

This.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Wojo walked into a dumpster fire of a roster.

If wojo gets canned, his replacements walks into a similar dumpster fire (all recruits de-commit, a couple transfer out).

3-5 years from then and Marquette might be successful again.

yep.  And by then, all the same people will be turning on that coach.  Its a vicious cycle. 

[Aircraftcarrier]

All BS.KO walked into a dumpster fire after Dukiet was fired and turned it around pretty quickly even being in an inferior league which makes recruiting harder.Crean had a terrible roster when he was hired after Deane got fired and he turned it around quickly also.I just think Wojo  does not have it.I would hire Stan.I think he would do a good job.

[cheebs09]

People complain about Wojo only having recruiting assistants on the bench and want an experienced X's and O's Guy (which is Rob Judson). Why would we think Stan is any better of an Xs and Os coach than Wojo?

Maybe we get Beilein and he brings Yacklich along. I'd also be excited with TJO who has had success as a head coach.

[Aircraftcarrier]

Cheebs,sometimes you have to give a person a chance.You may hit the lottery.If MU does not give Buzz a chance where is he today?It is like the college graduate that can't get hired because of no experience.KO and Crean were pretty good for MU with no experience

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Cheebs,sometimes you have to give a person a chance.You may hit the lottery.If MU does not give Buzz a chance where is he today?It is like the college graduate that can't get hired because of no experience.KO and Crean were pretty good for MU with no experience

KO and Crean were both assistants for Final Four level programs.  I mean, under your logic, they could literally hire anyone because "you may hit the lottery" and "they just need a chance."

[Billy Hoyle]

Fluffy MU went the Mid major route twice and both were disasters.Bob Dukiet and Mike Deane.Neither could recruit a lick.I will pass on that option.Accomplished assistants such as Dwayne Stephens, Norm Roberts, Kenny Payne, Bino Ransom,Sherman Dilliard and Jon Scheyer.I don't think I would hire any of those guys over Stan.

the revisionist history about Deane is in full effect. Yeah, Deane had his share of misses (Polo, Miller, Hester) but he also brought in some solid to very good pieces in Wardle, Cordell, Jon Harris, Nnamaka, Mike Bargan, Jarod Lovette (before his personal issues took over). DeMarcus Minor had a nice career at Baylor after leaving. Deane just never could close on an alpha. Alton Mason was what killed Deane, the kid was ripping up Hutch in practice but couldn't handle the academics, so Deane stopped recruiting academic risk kids. He also had to recruit to the Old Gym and could not recruit JUCO's. I'd still take an accomplished mid-major head coach over the right-hand man to Wojo, the guy primarily responsible for the current roster.

[Aircraftcarrier]

Fluffy hate to tell you but Wojo was an assistant on Final Four teams also.How has that worked out.Has no relevance.Billy Hoyle KO had to recruit to Old Gym also.All excuses.Deane sucked at recruiting period.I don't think you want to go there between KO recruiting and Deane recruiting

[Markusquette]

Stan seems likable and an ideal recruiter, but what the heck makes anyone think he's some ideal candidate to take over for Wojo? If MU is going to move on I want them looking for the best of the best this time. Guys with a proven track record. The school has the money and resources to bring in big names. Even if they're older I'm fine with that. But I don't see Stan Johnson as the answer.

[Aircraftcarrier]

Markusquette is MU going to pay $4 million?

[brewcity77]

Stan seems likable and an ideal recruiter, but what the heck makes anyone think he's some ideal candidate to take over for Wojo? If MU is going to move on I want them looking for the best of the best this time. Guys with a proven track record. The school has the money and resources to bring in big names. Even if they're older I'm fine with that. But I don't see Stan Johnson as the answer.

If Wojo left (say Wake) then maybe you think about Stan. Otherwise, you don't fire a guy to hire his second in charge. You fire to make real change, not more of the same.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Fluffy hate to tell you but Wojo was an assistant on Final Four teams also.How has that worked out.Has no relevance.Billy Hoyle KO had to recruit to Old Gym also.All excuses.Deane sucked at recruiting period.I don't think you want to go there between KO recruiting and Deane recruiting

Of course its relevent.  It just doesn't always work out.  How many currently successful head coaches were one time assistants for a P6 coach who never won an NCAA tournament game?

Now give me the list of currently successful head coaches who were the one time assistant for a P6 coach who made the Final Four?

My guess is the latter dwarfs the former significantly.

[muguru]

Stan seems likable and an ideal recruiter, but what the heck makes anyone think he's some ideal candidate to take over for Wojo? If MU is going to move on I want them looking for the best of the best this time. Guys with a proven track record. The school has the money and resources to bring in big names. Even if they're older I'm fine with that. But I don't see Stan Johnson as the answer.

Exactly...I'm so tired of people thinking they can't land an established name coach. They can..if they try hard enough.

[GrimmReaper33]

I'm to the point where I don't really give a crap about the recruiting class anymore.  Wojo has had 5 stars, 4 stars, top 100 guys, top 50 guys, McDonalds All Americans, College All American, proven grad transfers and traditional transfers- and he hasn't accomplished crap.  Why should we worry so much about possibly losing a recruit?  Why would this go round be any different?

The raw talent the program has had in the Wojo years has not been the problem, there are coaches out there that could have done a hell of a lot more with some of these rosters. 

[muguru]

Markusquette is MU going to pay $4 million?

MU COULD pay whatever it took...for example, and this is JUST an example...if Brad Stevens said he'd take the job for 10Mill a year...MU without question could find $10 mill a year to pay him.

[Aircraftcarrier]

Sometimes it doesn't work out.LOL

[brewcity77]

MU COULD pay whatever it took...for example, and this is JUST an example...if Brad Stevens said he'd take the job for 10Mill a year...MU without question could find $10 mill a year to pay him.

Uhh...yeah....I think that would throw the budget off just a bit.

[muguru]

I'm to the point where I don't really give a crap about the recruiting class anymore.  Wojo has had 5 stars, 4 stars, top 100 guys, top 50 guys, McDonalds All Americans, College All American, proven grad transfers and traditional transfers- and he hasn't accomplished crap.  Why should we worry so much about possibly losing a recruit?  Why would this go round be any different?

The raw talent the program has had in the Wojo years has not been the problem, there are coaches out there that could have done a hell of a lot more with some of these rosters.

This is EXACTLY right...I've watched these MU teams under Wojo and thought, man a different Coach and this season would have been so much better. A different coach and MU wins the BE last year. No doubt in my mind.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sometimes it doesn't work out.LOL

It doesn't.  Clearly.  But the chances of it working out are better if the assistant was an assistant for a successful coach. 

That's a much more logical point than "we might hit the lottery."

[Aircraftcarrier]

muguru let's get one then.You can get a lot of good coaches for $5 million.Why hasn't it been done already?

[muguru]

Uhh...yeah....I think that would throw the budget off just a bit.

Without knowing any of them personally, I'd be willing to bet that if Scholl called the biggest donors and said "I can get us Brad Stevens for 10 million a year", there would be checks on his desk to cover it before he even hung up the phone.

[muguru]

muguru let's get one then.You can get a lot of good coaches for $5 million.Why hasn't it been done already?

Honestly because as much as MU spends on their program, they always want to go as cheap as possible with a coach. No clue why, that's just the sense I get. It's maddening.

Also, I am 100% convinced that for this admin, winning at the highest levels isn't as important to them as it was to Wild/Cords. I think for this admin, graduating the kids, and them staying out of trouble is the main thing, and whatever results they get on the court are a bonus.