Our Fans Suck

[hairy worthen]

Goose, I am surprised you are in lockstep with a guy who believes Markus is a "cancer" - his word - but is now saying, "I'm sure he is a wonderful guy." The latter is something he clearly does not believe, given that "a cancer," by definition, is not a "wonderful guy."

Here, the Scooper you are saying is "spot on" is trying to have it both ways. He knows that if he came out and called Markus a cancer again, his entire post would be summarily dismissed by anybody with an ounce of decency.

Markus is not a perfect basketball player. Like every other player ever, he has flaws. And Wojo certainly could have done a better job coaching him - and every other Warrior under his charge. Although I generally have supported Wojo and have truly appreciated Markus, there have been many times over these past couple of seasons that I have shouted at the TV: "So-and-so is open - pass the ball, Markus!" It's similar to what many folks said about a 25-year-old Michael Jordan. (Note: I am NOT comparing Markus to Michael, except for the fact that both had/have the "gunner gene.")

Having said all that ...

Markus has been nothing but a tremendous representative of our university. For 4 years now, I have been watching him, reading articles about him, hearing coaches and other professional basketball observers talk about him, and reading about him on this board, and nobody has provided a shred of evidence to the contrary.

Anybody who booed him on Senior Day or hassled his family last night is not just a loser; he or she is the lowest scum on the earth.

Finally, I'm not a fan of threads like this because I don't like generalizations. Obviously, all of our fans don't "suck." I also dislike the generalizations many Projos make about Nojos, and vice versa.

Have a nice day, my friend. We are Marquette!

It is important to make the distinction between MH the basketball player and MH the human. Criticizing his play, the way he was used and the impact to the team is fair game. PRN is dead on in that respect. Booing a kid like MH is despicable to me because it hurts MH the human. I never Boo the teams I support, I hate it when people do.

My blame goes on Wojo. He did MH and the team a disservice. Giving full reign to a talent like Howard is not good coaching. Using him in a team concept would have been better. That has played out this year. The team and Howard look so much better when Howard doesn't force it and gets others involved.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

A "true PG" wouldn't make a difference on this team.

By the way, the concept of a "great representative of Marquette" is absolute garbage nonsense. What the hell does it mean? Doc Rivers is a good guy. Dwyane Wade, Wesley, Matt Heldt, Mcilvaine, Bob Jackson, Davante...whoever....all seem like good guys. That has zero to do with Marquette. It's bizarre to even discuss this crap.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Goose, I am surprised you are in lockstep with a guy who believes Markus is a "cancer" - his word - but is now saying, "I'm sure he is a wonderful guy." The latter is something he clearly does not believe, given that "a cancer," by definition, is not a "wonderful guy."

Here, the Scooper you are saying is "spot on" is trying to have it both ways. He knows that if he came out and called Markus a cancer again, his entire post would be summarily dismissed by anybody with an ounce of decency.

Markus is not a perfect basketball player. Like every other player ever, he has flaws. And Wojo certainly could have done a better job coaching him - and every other Warrior under his charge. Although I generally have supported Wojo and have truly appreciated Markus, there have been many times over these past couple of seasons that I have shouted at the TV: "So-and-so is open - pass the ball, Markus!" It's similar to what many folks said about a 25-year-old Michael Jordan. (Note: I am NOT comparing Markus to Michael, except for the fact that both had/have the "gunner gene.")

Having said all that ...

Markus has been nothing but a tremendous representative of our university. For 4 years now, I have been watching him, reading articles about him, hearing coaches and other professional basketball observers talk about him, and reading about him on this board, and nobody has provided a shred of evidence to the contrary.

Anybody who booed him on Senior Day or hassled his family last night is not just a loser; he or she is the lowest scum on the earth.

Finally, I'm not a fan of threads like this because I don't like generalizations. Obviously, all of our fans don't "suck." I also dislike the generalizations many Projos make about Nojos, and vice versa.

Have a nice day, my friend. We are Marquette!

This is all true, yet I am glad to move on to the Post- Markus Howard era of Marquette basketball. I have had enough of watching one guy dominate the ball so much to (I believe) the detriment of the overall team. He has been a blast to watch most of the time, but the team success just isn't there.

[NickelDimer]

82

My point on Howard has always gone back to Wojo. I think if Howard was 20 ppg guy on a successful team he would have been loved by all. Sadly, he has become the whipping boy due to a flawed system. Wojo has build his program based off on having a gunner and it has not worked in my opinion.

It started with Carlino, who was bashed on here early and hard, and has continued Year in year out. I think that more and more folks are tired of watching that type of ball and I am in the camp.

As for Howard, I am happy he played at MU and wish he would have had more team success. You are correct, he has been an outstanding representative for MU. Anyone that booed him or his family are jag offs. While, I have not enjoyed every moment of his career, I would have given him a standing ovation for a career well done.

This is a sure fire sign of a coach who doesn't know how to effectively design an offense. I really do believe Wojo's "great offensive mind" has been vastly overrated due to his ability (to his credit) of landing great shooters.

[PointWarrior]

Wow - I forgot they were 2nd last year, what a year - they must have had a real good run to end the year and strong ncaa showing - did I forget that too?

Coming off of a 2nd place finish in a 10 team conference. What's your point?

[Aircraftcarrier]

In my opinion a point guard would make a big difference.Koby is shooting 32% from the floor and 29% from three.He dribbles way to much.Can not get by his man because his shot is not honored and he is not quick enough to get by defender which in turn never breaks the defense down to get better shots.The ball sticks way to much when he is in game and does not know how to feed the post very well.So Yes I feel it would make a big difference.Plus when offense is really clicking defense seems to be more energized.

[ATL MU Warrior]

In my opinion a point guard would make a big difference.Koby is shooting 32% from the floor and 29% from three.He dribbles way to much.Can not get by his man because his shot is not honored and he is not quick enough to get by defender which in turn never breaks the defense down to get better shots.The ball sticks way to much when he is in game and does not know how to feed the post very well.So Yes I feel it would make a big difference.Plus when offense is really clicking defense seems to be more energized.

I don't think this matters that much when options 1-5 on each possession are to get the ball to Markus.

[21Jumpstreet]

I was a season ticket holder for many years. 18 or so times a year I drove 150 miles round trip to support the team. When seniors were honored  before the game I made sure to arrive early. When the ceremony was post game I stayed late. My preference. My choice. Never once did I sit in judgement of my fellow Marquette fans who couldn't arrive early/stay late or just didn't want to. These internecine battles over who is and who isn't a "good fan" are pathetic and pointless. It's "We are Marquette" not "We are Marquette and you're not". Talk about entitled. Pot meet kettle.

Yessir

[The Sultan]

Do you believe in the concept of a team cancer? If so, how would you define it?

Here are my answers:  Yes  and  Not Markus

[Aircraftcarrier]

Does not make a difference.Lol.Look at the stats.Koby has played 784 minutes with 89  assists and 74 turnovers. Symir has played 242 minutes with 40 assists and 17 turnovers.The offense runs poorly with Koby in the game.I would have liked to see Markus play along side  a Tony Miller ,Sam Worthen or Travis Diener.Yes it would make a difference and not just for Markus

[The Sultan]

Does not make a difference.Lol.Look at the stats.Koby has played 784 minutes with 89  assists and 74 turnovers. Symir has played 242 minutes with 40 assists and 17 turnovers.The offense runs poorly with Koby in the game.I would have liked to see Markus play along side  a Tony Miller ,Sam Worthen or Travis Diener.Yes it would make a difference and not just for Markus

Yeah I'm not sure about that.  Symir isn't a threat to score and gets lost defensively.  I certainly hope that he will improve, but the idea that this team would have been better with more Symir and less Koby is a poor one.

And I think the stats support this.  While Koby is slightly behind Symir in terms of assist rate, Symir's turnover rate is the worst on the team.  He's just not careful enough with the ball.

[Aircraftcarrier]

Not saying Symir would have been the answer just showing how bad Koby  stats are compared to someone that has played  a third less minutes that has no college experience.I don't think anyone can debate Koby has been bad at the point guard position and when you have bad point guard play long term success is not coming.just look at Washington after Quade Green was ruled ineligible.

[The Sultan]

Not saying Symir would have been the answer just showing how bad Koby  stats are compared to someone that has played  a third less minutes that has no college experience.I don't think anyone can debate Koby has been bad at the point guard position and when you have bad point guard play long term success is not coming.just look at Washington after Quade Green was ruled ineligible.

Koby hasn't been good.  Symir would have been worse. 

[Aircraftcarrier]

That is not the point.So you agree that point guard is a problem.Thank you

[MU82]

Do you believe in the concept of a team cancer? If so, how would you define it?

I believe that uninformed people who use incendiary terms to describe outstanding 20-year-old student/athletes - young men who have done nothing but represent a university with class - have revealed their lack of character.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Here are two Senior Day moments that maybe only a few saw.  After staying around shaking as many fans' hands as possible, Markus kissed the FF floor goodbye.  At Real Chili, two seniors were celebrating their just new engagement, only to be showered with a crescendo of oyster crackers.

If you look hard enough, you can see special moments even in defeat. I had a great day with family and friends to celebrate these players.

[wadesworld]

Manes

I have never said anything about my financial support of the program or university. Not exactly sure why you and others feel a need to group people on here.

Read Keefers posts. I'm taking him for a very honorable, trustworthy, honest man because, well, frankly, he's told us he's nothing short of the second coming of Jesus Christ himself. Sorry if he got it wrong and/or lied and I shouldn't have believed him.

[wadesworld]

The problem with all this nonsense about the fan base is that people are leaving out an important aspect...that, for the most part, our fan base knows what a well coached team looks like. Under Wojo, we have yet to see it.

For as accomplished Howard is as a scorer, he's not well coached. He's a scoring novelty act to the detriment of team success. Go ahead and cite our record when he scores 30 points, blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is and has been for two years, that the rest of the team suffers as he dominates the ball, shot attempts and attention. Don't @ me with some sabermetric bullsh*t either. It's why the Hausers left. When a guy is taking 25
Shots a game and you find yourself  with the basketball, if affects your decision making. It has affected the development of guys like Bailey, Cain, Elliott. I think it was beginning to affect Sam's decision making and Joey, obviously, was sick and tired of it.

Say what you want about Howard as a person. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy. He is not and never has been a team basketball player. It's not his game. For all you Howard defenders, I found it interesting that you thought his game vs Georgetown was his "masterpiece." Maybe so. But why not his 50+ vs USC at Thanksgiving? Is it because he exploded for 7 assists? If that's the case, shouldn't you be mentioning that he had exactly zero assists at halftime yesterday?

When the university is practically begging people to appreciate a kid who scores like he does there is something rotten in Denmark.

Marquette has a proud tradition and for him to be as polarizing as he clearly is speaks volumes.

Don't believe me? Listen to the FS1 studio analysts. They're beating us over the head with it every game. "Get teammates involved" seems to be a recurring theme.

For whatever reason, Wojo refuses to see the issue with this team. It is glaring and that's why the "note" was written. Those boys were begging for him to coach the team. Letting Howard run wild has been the easy way out and Wojo has chosen that path.

I will also say student booing of the coach seems a little unusual. Has it occurred to anybody that the students doing the booing may actually be booing as a result of conversations with players...their fellow students? Who interacts with the team more than the students? Wagging your fingers at these kids is ridiculous.

If we took a step or two back if Wojo left, I'd be fine with it. What we are watching isn't an enjoyable product. Like I said, it's a novelty act. NCAA or not, give me a team that works together over what we are watching.

The best arguments are always the ones that go along the lines of, "I already know the facts prove the opposite, so ignore those!"

[Goose]

Manes

Keefe is a real stand up guy and have a lot respect for him. You can feel anyway you want about anyone on here and I respect that. My point was not to say things I have not said. My financial support to the university had been paying tuition for my last children, at a financial sacrifice to our family. That said, I am very happy we did it and proud of my kids. Currently my financial interests are geared towards saying for grandchildren's education.

My post on those who have financially supported the program and university was a general statement. There are many, likely some on here, that fall into that camp and I appreciate their support. My frustration with you stems from a need on personal attacks. I disagree with many in here but try not to make things personal to other scoopers.

[wadesworld]

Manes

Keefe is a real stand up guy and have a lot respect for him. You can feel anyway you want about anyone on here and I respect that. My point was not to say things I have not said. My financial support to the university had been paying tuition for my last children, at a financial sacrifice to our family. That said, I am very happy we did it and proud of my kids. Currently my financial interests are geared towards saying for grandchildren's education.

My post on those who have financially supported the program and university was a general statement. There are many, likely some on here, that fall into that camp and I appreciate their support. My frustration with you stems from a need on personal attacks. I disagree with many in here but try not to make things personal to other scoopers.

This may help you understand why your name was included and why I felt the need to "group people." I "grouped people" because I was using the "group" Keefer provided and was replying to Keefer. My apologies if you did not want to be included in that "group."

Mother Goose,

You and I have given Marquette a significant amount of money over the years. I dare say that frames what constitutes a definitive supporter of the program.

Sadly, our financial support is on hold until we see better results which is, of course, our right.

I would hazard to say many questioning loyalty to the program have not given so much as a six pack's worth of cash to Marquette. I find the irony in that is rather delicious.

[NYWarrior]

FoxSports guys say something like 'spread the ball around' ... yet MU has an elite offense, #2 in Big East play. In the last 85 mins of game action, Markus has 86 points on 61% shooting (27-44). High usage can break your mind a bit because it is so odd to see it within a major conference but it is hardly the foremost reason for the program's ceiling.

You're looking on the wrong side of the court. MU is struggling to make the leap as a program because of defense, where MU is one of the worst two defensive teams in the Big East. MU has been one of the worst two defensive teams in the league for 3 of the last 4 seasons. MU has only finished in the top of half (which is a very low bar, btw) of Big East defensive teams in 1 of Wojo's 6 seasons. Moreover, questionable lineup construction exacerbates the the problem.

[WarriorDad]

We returned this morning from a nice day with our daughter, taking in senior day and spending the evening in Milwaukee. 

We have attended numerous senior days and the showing yesterday was not that different than others.  Coach Williams lost his first three senior days, the turnout was roughly the same except for the three amigos.  His last year we lost and the turnout was worse than yesterday.  Coach Crean and Wojo senior days felt similar in fan appearance.  Doesn't make it right in my opinion.

Markus was terrific yesterday.  Sacar and Jayce struggled. 

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The best arguments are always the ones that go along the lines of, "I already know the facts prove the opposite, so ignore those!"

Not sure what this means.

Here is a fact: Three of our top 7 or 8 rotation guys from a year ago walked off the team. Everything I've heard suggests they were "great representatives of Marquette University."

[Goose]

Manes

Proud member of the meat summit guys, all men I respect a great deal. But, like many groups in life, not everyone is the same. I have plenty of friends that march to a different drummer and all are different. Older I get the less I try to make assumptions or judgement. Who knows, maybe I would have different opinion if you if in a real life conversation vs. a "ball" forum.

[keefe]

Not sure what this means.

Here is a fact: Three of our top 7 or 8 rotation guys from a year ago walked off the team. Everything I've heard suggests they were "great representatives of Marquette University."

Nightmare

You nailed it: The fact that 40% of any organization's best talent walks away is disturbing.

Don't try to reason with the intellectually challenged. It's a fool's game.