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Author Topic: Transfer Rule proposal  (Read 3295 times)

79Warrior

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2020, 10:01:04 AM »

Is that a record for whoever cheeks is.

dgies9156

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2020, 10:01:18 AM »
A school believes in a kid and gives them a 4 year scholarship and develops the kid....now the kid ups and leaves.  Companies have policies / contracts if they develop someone (pay for their MBA) and the employee leaves early the employee must pay back the company.  If the kid has to reimburse the school, I’m open to this.

There are going to be so many roster changes that some schools instead of losing 3 or 4 kids could lose 7+ with no fault of their own....all because they had the audacity to take chances on kids that then blew up.  If you don’t think that isn’t going to destroy programs and set fan bases in revolt you are kidding yourself.

Brother Cheeks:

I'm afraid you've mis-stated. Athletic scholarships are one-year terms that are annually renewed by the college.

If the student was given a guaranteed four-year scholarship, then OK, you're right. But they don't.

This is why I like the idea of a two-year agreement with an ability to move after the second year. Fair for the student -- particularly if he has been over-recruited -- and fair for the school because you know you have him for two years. You give a release if the coach leaves or the school gets NCAA probation.

Nukem2

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2020, 10:06:13 AM »
Brother Cheeks:

I'm afraid you've mis-stated. Athletic scholarships are one-year terms that are annually renewed by the college.

If the student was given a guaranteed four-year scholarship, then OK, you're right. But they don't.

This is why I like the idea of a two-year agreement with an ability to move after the second year. Fair for the student -- particularly if he has been over-recruited -- and fair for the school because you know you have him for two years. You give a release if the coach leaves or the school gets NCAA probation.
Wrong.  A lot of conferences now give 4 year scholies.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #103 on: February 22, 2020, 10:09:25 AM »
Is that a record for whoever cheeks is.

Some people believe volume is greater than being correct
Cooler.  20 Days.

guzica

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #104 on: February 22, 2020, 10:10:45 AM »
I think he was trying to fill  a whole page with just his posts ! ! !  8-)

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #105 on: February 22, 2020, 10:41:30 AM »
Brother Cheeks:

I'm afraid you've mis-stated. Athletic scholarships are one-year terms that are annually renewed by the college.

If the student was given a guaranteed four-year scholarship, then OK, you're right. But they don't.

This is why I like the idea of a two-year agreement with an ability to move after the second year. Fair for the student -- particularly if he has been over-recruited -- and fair for the school because you know you have him for two years. You give a release if the coach leaves or the school gets NCAA probation.

The P6 schools changed to 4 year scholarships a few years ago.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11666316/big-ten-guarantees-four-year-scholarships-student-athletes

Yes, there is wiggle room for things like fraud, etc.





"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #106 on: February 22, 2020, 10:43:09 AM »
I think he was trying to fill  a whole page with just his posts ! ! !  8-)

I take the time to answer each post, it’s the service and respect I deliver to each person.  My humility is your gain to not be treated as just a number with one post covering all.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #107 on: February 22, 2020, 10:45:06 AM »
It is in some part still should be about giving kids the opportunity to graduate from the school of their choice, so I do not like giving the school the opportunity to "cut" kids. A scholarship should be a 4 year guarantee, with 1 free transfer,  eliminate the grad transfer rule. If an athlete has already transferred once, no grad transfer.

And what are the protections for the school, counselor?

Scholarships are already 4 years by the way.  Sure looks like all the protections are one sided in your proposal.  Kid sucks or dogs it....he keeps scholarship.  Kid wants to leave, no renumeration for the school.  Etc, etc. 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 10:47:58 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #108 on: February 22, 2020, 10:48:47 AM »
A school believes in a kid and gives them a 4 year scholarship and develops the kid....now the kid ups and leaves.  Companies have policies / contracts if they develop someone (pay for their MBA) and the employee leaves early the employee must pay back the company.  If the kid has to reimburse the school, I’m open to this.

There are going to be so many roster changes that some schools instead of losing 3 or 4 kids could lose 7+ with no fault of their own....all because they had the audacity to take chances on kids that then blew up.  If you don’t think that isn’t going to destroy programs and set fan bases in revolt you are kidding yourself.

This is where the hypocrisy is glaring
When it suits your needs, you want athletes treated like employees - restricting their movement, binding them to contractual obligations, imposing non-compete constraints, demanding reimbursement, etc.

But when it comes to issues of compensation and labor rights? They're students!

It's like the late great John Matuszak's character in North Dallas Forty said of his team's management, "Every time I call it a game, you call it a business. And every time I call it a business, you call it a game."

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #109 on: February 22, 2020, 10:53:16 AM »
This is where the hypocrisy is glaring
When it suits your needs, you want athletes treated like employees - restricting their movement, binding them to contractual obligations, imposing non-compete constraints, demanding reimbursement, etc.

But when it comes to issues of compensation and labor rights? They're students!

It's like the late great John Matuszak's character in North Dallas Forty said of his team's management, "Every time I call it a game, you call it a business. And every time I call it a business, you call it a game."

And you hypocrisy doesn’t show....LOL.

I am not restricting their movement....but you have to sit out.  I am not saying you should be denied where you go.  School is making an investment in student and guaranteeing a four year ride.....where is protection for school?  Seriously, where is it?  There is NONE in your proposal.  No contract, nothing.  School is screwed and from there comes the domino effect of program destruction, etc.


Tell me where the protection of any kind exists for the school.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MU82

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #110 on: February 22, 2020, 11:02:32 AM »
Soccer players, wrestlers, lacrosse players, concert violinists are free to transfer without having to sit out a year.

Basketball players? Tough shyte ... you gotta sit!

Unless, of course, the NCAA feels like granting a waiver.

Quite a fair system for one and all!
“The advancement and diffusion of knowledge is the only guardian of true liberty.”

-- James Madison

lawdog77

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #111 on: February 22, 2020, 11:02:52 AM »
And what are the protections for the school, counselor?

Scholarships are already 4 years by the way.  Sure looks like all the protections are one sided in your proposal.  Kid sucks or dogs it....he keeps scholarship.  Kid wants to leave, no renumeration for the school.  Etc, etc.
The protection is all of the $$$ that individual brought to the school while he was playing. If a key member of a team decides to transfer, that will free up playing time for others (including potential transfers in).

Pakuni

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #112 on: February 22, 2020, 11:03:47 AM »
And you hypocrisy doesn’t show....LOL.

I am not restricting their movement....but you have to sit out.  I am not saying you should be denied where you go.  School is making an investment in student and guaranteeing a four year ride.....where is protection for school?  Seriously, where is it?  There is NONE in your proposal.  No contract, nothing.  School is screwed and from there comes the domino effect of program destruction, etc.


Tell me where the protection of any kind exists for the school.

1. What hypocrisy? My position is consistent and always has been. Your position is not. You want athletes treated as students when it suits the schools' best interests. You want them treated as employees when it suits the schools' best interests.
2. Why are the schools owed protection? They deserve none. They benefit greatly from the players' labors while the player is there. Now you want them to benefit from the player not being there?

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #113 on: February 22, 2020, 11:19:48 AM »
The protection is all of the $$$ that individual brought to the school while he was playing. If a key member of a team decides to transfer, that will free up playing time for others (including potential transfers in).

LOL....do you know how many schools lose money on their programs....but of course you don’t want to talk about those schools..

The top kids will get poached up, so when you lose a kid, you replace them with someone of lesser quality.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #114 on: February 22, 2020, 11:21:39 AM »
1. What hypocrisy? My position is consistent and always has been. Your position is not. You want athletes treated as students when it suits the schools' best interests. You want them treated as employees when it suits the schools' best interests.
2. Why are the schools owed protection? They deserve none. They benefit greatly from the players' labors while the player is there. Now you want them to benefit from the player not being there?

Thank you for admitting this is a one way street and schools are given the short end of the deal despite them being the ones that are cultivating, training, etc the talent of the kids.


“They didn’t build that....”. What a shocking disclosure by Pakuni....so shocked. ::)
Your hypocrisy is not acknowledging what the school invests and provides to the student.  Without the school and the platform, these kids would be doing what?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2020, 11:28:00 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #115 on: February 22, 2020, 11:34:33 AM »
Thank you for admitting this is a one way street and schools are given the short end of the deal despite them being the ones that are cultivating, training, etc the talent of the kids.

Your hypocrisy is not acknowledging what the school invests and provides to the student.  Without the school and the platform, these kids would be doing what?

Oh, stop. You cannot possibly be this naive.
College athletic departments are not charity organizations. They aren't "cultivating, training, etc." athletes out of the kindness of their hearts or because it makes the world a better place.
They're doing it for one reason and only one reason: because it benefits the institution. And it does that in many ways, from financial to public exposure to student recruitment to alumni relations and more.
A one-way street? Good God.

As for complaint about schools that lose money ... well, if they're losing money, maybe they should get out of major college athletics. Of course, they won't do that, because they've decided the other benefits (see above) outweigh whatever financial losses they may claim.
And before you whine about "lost opportunities" schools could solve that by giving out scholarship money previously awarded to athletes to deserving low-income students. They'd still save a fortune by not funding a major athletic department staff, coaches, facility costs, travel costs, etc.
Problem solved. No lost opportunities.

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #116 on: February 22, 2020, 11:40:07 AM »
Oh, stop. You cannot possibly be this naive.
College athletic departments are not charity organizations. They aren't "cultivating, training, etc." athletes out of the kindness of their hearts or because it makes the world a better place.
They're doing it for one reason and only one reason: because it benefits the institution. And it does that in many ways, from financial to public exposure to student recruitment to alumni relations and more.
A one-way street? Good God.

As for complaint about schools that lose money ... well, if they're losing money, maybe they should get out of major college athletics. Of course, they won't do that, because they've decided the other benefits (see above) outweigh whatever financial losses they may claim.
And before you whine about "lost opportunities" schools could solve that by giving out scholarship money previously awarded to athletes to deserving low-income students. They'd still save a fortune by not funding a major athletic department staff, coaches, facility costs, travel costs, etc.
Problem solved. No lost opportunities.

And you can’t possibly be so naive to say “free labor” either.  MU spends a crap ton of money on student athletes to train them, make them better....who benefits from that....only the school?  Give me a break.  How many players who had very little prospects to make the pros did so after that cultivation and training....plenty.

And free labor is an interesting statement by you...with a college degree you make more than $2million over your life because of that piece of paper.  Hardly free labor

You just want to make this as if the school should have no protections....your words!!!  I thought a partnership was a two way street and when you have a one sided approach like you are proposing, it doesn’t end well.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #117 on: February 22, 2020, 11:47:52 AM »
And you can’t possibly be so naive to say “free labor” either.  MU spends a crap ton of money on student athletes to train them, make them better....who benefits from that....only the school?  Give me a break.  How many players who had very little prospects to make the pros did so after that cultivation and training....plenty.

And free labor is an interesting statement by you...with a college degree you make more than $2million over your life because of that piece of paper.  Hardly free labor

You just want to make this as if the school should have no protections....your words!!!  I thought a partnership was a two way street and when you have a one sided approach like you are proposing, it doesn’t end well.

You're arguing here against a bunch of straw men and things I didn't write. Cool. Guess that's what happens when you have no argument.

Cheeks

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #118 on: February 23, 2020, 02:34:14 PM »
You're arguing here against a bunch of straw men and things I didn't write. Cool. Guess that's what happens when you have no argument.

You wrote free labor in this very thread....good Lord
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #119 on: February 23, 2020, 04:03:41 PM »
You wrote free labor in this very thread....good Lord

Nope.

Cheeks

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"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #121 on: February 23, 2020, 04:51:05 PM »

Free labor.   https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59187.msg1165612#msg1165612

That's a post from October in which I didn't write free labor.
Your willingness to lie to avoid admitting you're wrong knows no bounds. 


jesmu84

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #122 on: February 23, 2020, 05:01:24 PM »
That's a post from October in which I didn't write free labor.
Your willingness to lie to avoid admitting you're wrong knows no bounds. 



It also wasn't in this thread

Jay Bee

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2020, 06:07:10 PM »
As do coaches, dg, and for a helluva lot more benefits. Let's hold them all to the contracts they sign

They are held to the contracts they sign. Buyouts get paid, buddy. Maybe schools need to not be such wusses and demand larger buyouts that actually serve as a deterrent.

nvm, not sure why I’m trying to explain contracts to a guy that’s been out of work for decades

#UnleashJayce

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Re: Transfer Rule proposal
« Reply #124 on: February 23, 2020, 06:08:33 PM »
Could I get another couple of pages of Cheeks talking to himself