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Author Topic: infrared saunas  (Read 437 times)

rocket surgeon

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infrared saunas
« on: February 08, 2020, 08:09:07 AM »
has anyone heard, used or are using one of these types of saunas?

 my research seems to point me toward the jnh-lifestyles brand, 2-3 person size.  they get the best ratings.  recommendations are for a western hemlock or red cedar wood with carbon fiber heater panels and LED lights providing.  some differences between models however, include the wavelengths provided.  the far and mid wavelengths seem to provide most of what people are looking for while the full spectrum seems to be like the "go big or go home"

  "  Far Infrared vs. Mid vs. Near - The Health Benefits
As we mentioned above, each of the three wavelengths of infrared penetrates the body to a different degree, and as such provides unique benefits that the others do not.

Here is a general breakdown of health benefits and which wavelengths offer it:

Relaxation: Far, Mid and Near Infrared

Detoxification: Far and Mid Infrared

Pain Relief: Far, Mid and Near Infrared

Cardio: Far, Mid and Near Infrared

Anti-Aging: Far and Near Infrared

Weight Loss: Far and Mid Infrared

So as you can see, your best bet may be a full spectrum sauna where you can choose which infrared wavelengths you want depending on the desired results. 
my wife has known her massage therapist(a female) for many years.  she(her therapist) has recently teamed up with a facility where some fairly prominent pro athletes have come to train off season here in waukesha.  the big thing has been incorporating the infrared sauna into their heavy duty workouts providing all of the above.  i understand this type of thing may have been around for quite awhile for those who NEED their bodies at full efficiency for sporting events.  i'm sure this has trickled down to more the "mainstream"  populace figuring,,,well, why not?

as some of you may or may not know, my wife is on her last few months for her breast cancer treatment-a small, early diagnosis 4-7mm lumpectomy, negative node involvement, but HERS II protein +.  everything is going very well.  she has a great oncologist who treated her very aggressively because she is young, her body could tolerate it and to minimize or prevent recurrence.  she had 3 weeks of chemo followed by 4 weeks of radiation and now herceptin every 3 weeks thru may and then an anti-cancer drug for 5 years or something.  i do not mention this to garner sympathy but to provide a fuller picture of where i'm coming from with this newer or ressurgent type of therapy

  all in all, as i'm sure many of you have experienced in some form or another, a life challenging event, we tend to look for something that may "purify" or optimize our bodies health as naturally as possible

amazon offers the 2 person jnh lifestyles for around $1k.  there are tent style all the way up to 5 person or more
i'll take ape tit for $200 alex

jficke13

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2020, 02:49:55 PM »
I'm very skeptical that infrared wavelength has anything to do with the effectiveness of a sauna. Also the very existence of a reference to "detoxification" makes me skeptical of your sources.

BUT,

I do like saunas, and there seems to be some decent studies out of Finland that suggest that sauna has health benefits. From what I've read the benefits are largely thought to be linked to thermal stress. The Finns run their saunas at crazy high temperatures, so there's a bit of a question as to whether the home infrared saunas reach a high enough temp to elicit the same effects. I think Dr. Ronda Patrick (I know, not exactly a nobel laureate but she uses footnotes so at least you can check her sources) has written about saunas in a couple places that might be a good spot to look, follow the footnotes, and see where research on the infrared style saunas falls.

rocket surgeon

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2020, 03:24:53 PM »
I'm very skeptical that infrared wavelength has anything to do with the effectiveness of a sauna. Also the very existence of a reference to "detoxification" makes me skeptical of your sources.

BUT,

I do like saunas, and there seems to be some decent studies out of Finland that suggest that sauna has health benefits. From what I've read the benefits are largely thought to be linked to thermal stress. The Finns run their saunas at crazy high temperatures, so there's a bit of a question as to whether the home infrared saunas reach a high enough temp to elicit the same effects. I think Dr. Ronda Patrick (I know, not exactly a nobel laureate but she uses footnotes so at least you can check her sources) has written about saunas in a couple places that might be a good spot to look, follow the footnotes, and see where research on the infrared style saunas falls.

thank you for your well respected thoughts.  i'm not blind with emotional ambition on them.  what i mean is the thing about "toxins" can be a real head nodder, both ways.  although i haven't read anything by dr. ronda yet, and i will, has anyone run tests on peoples sweat to see what "toxins" they've excreted?  we have to be careful of what we believe, when we believe it.  if these "toxins" things are all the big whoop, then why wouldn't these things be endorsed left and right to as a preventative measure?  i'm still doing a lot of research on them cuz the last thing i need is a couple of thousand dollar red cedar closet in my rec room that was supposed to keep us looking like teenagers, drop 20 lbs for me by sitting on my ass and keep us cancer free 

my understanding of infrared saunas are they are supposed to heat you from within, not at the surface, depending on the wavelength i guess
i'll take ape tit for $200 alex

jesmu84

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2020, 04:08:51 PM »
thank you for your well respected thoughts.  i'm not blind with emotional ambition on them.  what i mean is the thing about "toxins" can be a real head nodder, both ways.  although i haven't read anything by dr. ronda yet, and i will, has anyone run tests on peoples sweat to see what "toxins" they've excreted?  we have to be careful of what we believe, when we believe it.  if these "toxins" things are all the big whoop, then why wouldn't these things be endorsed left and right to as a preventative measure?  i'm still doing a lot of research on them cuz the last thing i need is a couple of thousand dollar red cedar closet in my rec room that was supposed to keep us looking like teenagers, drop 20 lbs for me by sitting on my ass and keep us cancer free 

my understanding of infrared saunas are they are supposed to heat you from within, not at the surface, depending on the wavelength i guess

IMO, you are cleaned by your liver. So, toxins are filtered from there. Any cleanse, medication, wrap, lotion, etc that claims to eliminate toxins is BS.

I truly don't believe there is any physiological mechanism/process for eliminating "toxins" any other way in the body except the liver. And that includes sweating them out.

rocket surgeon

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2020, 04:16:03 PM »
kelly conaboy from the atlantic has some fun talking about the infrred sauna hype-

  https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/infrared-saunas-will-not-detoxify-you-toxins-sweat/528813/


while "mindbodygreen" not surprisingly is all in

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/infrared-saunas-will-not-detoxify-you-toxins-sweat/528813/

a few of the pro-infrared sauna articles claim we do sweat out some amounts of heavy metals and BPA's

all in all, unless one has some underlying health issues, just like everything else-MODERATION
i'll take ape tit for $200 alex

rocket surgeon

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2020, 04:23:14 PM »
IMO, you are cleaned by your liver. So, toxins are filtered from there. Any cleanse, medication, wrap, lotion, etc that claims to eliminate toxins is BS.

I truly don't believe there is any physiological mechanism/process for eliminating "toxins" any other way in the body except the liver. And that includes sweating them out.

the kidneys also plays a role in ridding our bodies of toxins-we pee out broken down alcohol from the liver which de-activates it and converts it to a water-soluble by product to the kidneys.   
i'll take ape tit for $200 alex

jficke13

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2020, 06:01:00 PM »
eh, I guess I was a bit more flippant in my post than I wanted to be. Sorry about that.

I kinda wanted to draw a distinction between thinking the benefit is as wideranging, or narrowly calibrated, as that quote you posted made it seem. I'm not a sauna scholar, but I fell down the rabbit hole reading about them about a year ago. I don't recall anything seriously differentiating between the near vs far infrared spectrum. The takeaway I got from my reading was that the spectrum business was mostly marketing and the temperature/duration were the operative inputs.

However, I do feel great coming out of a sauna (especially after a hard workout). I do think there's some science that shows that sauna use seems to associate with with positive health benefits (associates with, because there's probably a huge healthy-user bias in these studies, and I can't imagine how you'd control to determine causation in a study like this). Honestly, I'd say that if even thinking that one piece of the spectrum causes relaxation, and sitting in the sauna does relax you, then it's a net positive. I think we as a culture underestimate the negative impacts of stress, so a means of destressing that doesn't otherwise harm you seems like a great idea. If there's a sauna that checks this box, I'd say go for it.

You've got more walking physiology knowledge than I do even if its dusty from dental school, so you can probably check this science more rigorously than I ever could dream of doing. But here's a long, detailed post about sauna science: https://www.foundmyfitness.com/topics/sauna

Again, disclaimer, it's been a while since I've read it, she may have updated since I did, and I could be very, very wrong about everything I've said. I am, afterall, just some random guy on the internet.

houwarrior

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2020, 06:17:52 PM »
For me....From age 3 to 10 almost every Saturday night was Sauna night at Finnish Grandpa Parkkomaki's farm in Finlayson Mn. Built in the late 1800s the sauna was true to Finnish tradition. No one heard of infrared, except as a skin shade after sitting on the upper shelf too long- lol. No commercial sauna I have tried since beat the simple efficacy of the Finlayson health heaven.

The well sealed building was about 12 x 16, with a small ante room and firewood rack. In the Sauna, There was a heavy gauge steel square bin 4 ft cubed, with the bottom perforated to circulate flames and heat . The bin bottom had layers of big round rocks, then topped with many layers of flat sandstone rocks common to Pine County lakes. The concrete floor below was bowled below the bin allowing room for an open birchwood fire started about an hour before ...by then the heat flow was drawing all the smoke up and out the flue. Nude, we sat on...Slat shelves (lower for kids, middle for mom, top one for the men) that cooked us pretty good in about ten to twenty minutes. Buckets of pure lake water were for ladling on to the bin and rinsing off. No soap no gadgets, no birch branch self mutilation....just sit ladle, then pow/heat ,sweat, and rinse. No one in my moms family ever had a zit in their life. The pure sauna is not duplicated by commercial heaters. Get some Finns to build you one near pure lake water and a birchwood forest.




I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.    Evelyn Beatrice Hall

forgetful

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2020, 06:44:05 PM »
has anyone heard, used or are using one of these types of saunas?

 my research seems to point me toward the jnh-lifestyles brand, 2-3 person size.  they get the best ratings.  recommendations are for a western hemlock or red cedar wood with carbon fiber heater panels and LED lights providing.  some differences between models however, include the wavelengths provided.  the far and mid wavelengths seem to provide most of what people are looking for while the full spectrum seems to be like the "go big or go home"

  "  Far Infrared vs. Mid vs. Near - The Health Benefits
As we mentioned above, each of the three wavelengths of infrared penetrates the body to a different degree, and as such provides unique benefits that the others do not.

Here is a general breakdown of health benefits and which wavelengths offer it:

Relaxation: Far, Mid and Near Infrared

Detoxification: Far and Mid Infrared

Pain Relief: Far, Mid and Near Infrared

Cardio: Far, Mid and Near Infrared

Anti-Aging: Far and Near Infrared

Weight Loss: Far and Mid Infrared

So as you can see, your best bet may be a full spectrum sauna where you can choose which infrared wavelengths you want depending on the desired results. 
my wife has known her massage therapist(a female) for many years.  she(her therapist) has recently teamed up with a facility where some fairly prominent pro athletes have come to train off season here in waukesha.  the big thing has been incorporating the infrared sauna into their heavy duty workouts providing all of the above.  i understand this type of thing may have been around for quite awhile for those who NEED their bodies at full efficiency for sporting events.  i'm sure this has trickled down to more the "mainstream"  populace figuring,,,well, why not?

as some of you may or may not know, my wife is on her last few months for her breast cancer treatment-a small, early diagnosis 4-7mm lumpectomy, negative node involvement, but HERS II protein +.  everything is going very well.  she has a great oncologist who treated her very aggressively because she is young, her body could tolerate it and to minimize or prevent recurrence.  she had 3 weeks of chemo followed by 4 weeks of radiation and now herceptin every 3 weeks thru may and then an anti-cancer drug for 5 years or something.  i do not mention this to garner sympathy but to provide a fuller picture of where i'm coming from with this newer or ressurgent type of therapy

  all in all, as i'm sure many of you have experienced in some form or another, a life challenging event, we tend to look for something that may "purify" or optimize our bodies health as naturally as possible

amazon offers the 2 person jnh lifestyles for around $1k.  there are tent style all the way up to 5 person or more

First, let me say I'm glad your wife is responding well to treatment and they have caught it early. I'll remember to keep your family in my prayers.

Second, regarding the sauna aspects. I know you have medical training so you are able to dive through materials to gauge whether claims have reasonable merit. I'd caution to be careful here, especially claims by companies producing the saunas. Often companies market off legitimate health claims, that stem from carefully controlled and constructed medical devices with specific applications, whereas their devices deviate substantially, and they make far broader claims than the original studies.

In regards to the benefits/risks of IR radiation in medicine and health, you could look at some scholarly review articles that are peer reviewed. Here is a link to once such review.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5505738/

The advantage of the reviews is you are provided links to the original research studies, so you can decide for yourself whether the claims are valid. Also, the pubmed links have recommendations for related and similar studies. As you will see, there are clear beneficial uses of IR in medicine, but usually for specific instances (that may or may not apply to you and your wife). There are also some risks.

rocket surgeon

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2020, 07:45:31 PM »
eh, I guess I was a bit more flippant in my post than I wanted to be. Sorry about that.

I kinda wanted to draw a distinction between thinking the benefit is as wideranging, or narrowly calibrated, as that quote you posted made it seem. I'm not a sauna scholar, but I fell down the rabbit hole reading about them about a year ago. I don't recall anything seriously differentiating between the near vs far infrared spectrum. The takeaway I got from my reading was that the spectrum business was mostly marketing and the temperature/duration were the operative inputs.

However, I do feel great coming out of a sauna (especially after a hard workout). I do think there's some science that shows that sauna use seems to associate with with positive health benefits (associates with, because there's probably a huge healthy-user bias in these studies, and I can't imagine how you'd control to determine causation in a study like this). Honestly, I'd say that if even thinking that one piece of the spectrum causes relaxation, and sitting in the sauna does relax you, then it's a net positive. I think we as a culture underestimate the negative impacts of stress, so a means of destressing that doesn't otherwise harm you seems like a great idea. If there's a sauna that checks this box, I'd say go for it.

You've got more walking physiology knowledge than I do even if its dusty from dental school, so you can probably check this science more rigorously than I ever could dream of doing. But here's a long, detailed post about sauna science: https://www.foundmyfitness.com/topics/sauna

Again, disclaimer, it's been a while since I've read it, she may have updated since I did, and I could be very, very wrong about everything I've said. I am, afterall, just some random guy on the internet.


 no, all good jf-the article you cited is incredible!  incredibly good!  it gets right down to the nitty gritty cellular function, repair, immunology, physiology, etc etc...now i know one cannot expect all of these things to be some sort of magic elixir for everyone, but if you can expect even a good few of these physiological activities, including the stress relief-win-win. 

houwarrior-what an amazing story-thank you!  while the finnish people weren't privy to the aforementioned studies,  they inherently knew whatever they were doing was of a great benefit. what a cool reminiscence that needs to be passed on

forgetful-thank you for your kind words.  the article you cited is another excellent read.  thank you!  i am also a big proponent of antioxidant metabolism and through increased circulation with the proper diet and exercise keeps our bodies refreshed.  infrared may just be a more refined source of energy than houwarrior's fire.   

anyway, all good stuff.  now i'm back to leaning toward that fancy closet in the rec room.  they make them with glass doors and windows to the front.   so i'll either be able to watch the golf channel thru it, or see the clothes i have hanging in it.   the former is the goal.   


thanks guys!
 
i'll take ape tit for $200 alex

jficke13

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2020, 08:10:45 PM »
If you find a home solution with the horespower necessary to make it work, share with the class. My basement needs a Master Plan after all.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2020, 12:12:01 AM »
has anyone heard, used or are using one of these types of saunas?

 my research seems to point me toward the jnh-lifestyles brand, 2-3 person size.  they get the best ratings.  recommendations are for a western hemlock or red cedar wood with carbon fiber heater panels and LED lights providing.  some differences between models however, include the wavelengths provided.  the far and mid wavelengths seem to provide most of what people are looking for while the full spectrum seems to be like the "go big or go home"

  "  Far Infrared vs. Mid vs. Near - The Health Benefits
As we mentioned above, each of the three wavelengths of infrared penetrates the body to a different degree, and as such provides unique benefits that the others do not.

Here is a general breakdown of health benefits and which wavelengths offer it:

Relaxation: Far, Mid and Near Infrared

Detoxification: Far and Mid Infrared

Pain Relief: Far, Mid and Near Infrared

Cardio: Far, Mid and Near Infrared

Anti-Aging: Far and Near Infrared

Weight Loss: Far and Mid Infrared

So as you can see, your best bet may be a full spectrum sauna where you can choose which infrared wavelengths you want depending on the desired results. 
my wife has known her massage therapist(a female) for many years.  she(her therapist) has recently teamed up with a facility where some fairly prominent pro athletes have come to train off season here in waukesha.  the big thing has been incorporating the infrared sauna into their heavy duty workouts providing all of the above.  i understand this type of thing may have been around for quite awhile for those who NEED their bodies at full efficiency for sporting events.  i'm sure this has trickled down to more the "mainstream"  populace figuring,,,well, why not?

as some of you may or may not know, my wife is on her last few months for her breast cancer treatment-a small, early diagnosis 4-7mm lumpectomy, negative node involvement, but HERS II protein +.  everything is going very well.  she has a great oncologist who treated her very aggressively because she is young, her body could tolerate it and to minimize or prevent recurrence.  she had 3 weeks of chemo followed by 4 weeks of radiation and now herceptin every 3 weeks thru may and then an anti-cancer drug for 5 years or something.  i do not mention this to garner sympathy but to provide a fuller picture of where i'm coming from with this newer or ressurgent type of therapy

  all in all, as i'm sure many of you have experienced in some form or another, a life challenging event, we tend to look for something that may "purify" or optimize our bodies health as naturally as possible

amazon offers the 2 person jnh lifestyles for around $1k.  there are tent style all the way up to 5 person or more

Yo, kin, you tryin to make code words for goin to da red lite district or what?
Unless Sultan says differently that is, then we’d obviously have to go with that....

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rocket surgeon

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2020, 06:08:21 AM »
damn zig, ya got me-"group" therapy is supposed to be the best, therapeutically speaking of course.  everyone knows a good workout followed by massage and 3-way, i mean person sauna does wonders
i'll take ape tit for $200 alex

DiaperDandy

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2020, 07:13:34 AM »

 no, all good jf-the article you cited is incredible!  incredibly good!  it gets right down to the nitty gritty cellular function, repair, immunology, physiology, etc etc...now i know one cannot expect all of these things to be some sort of magic elixir for everyone, but if you can expect even a good few of these physiological activities, including the stress relief-win-win. 

houwarrior-what an amazing story-thank you!  while the finnish people weren't privy to the aforementioned studies,  they inherently knew whatever they were doing was of a great benefit. what a cool reminiscence that needs to be passed on

forgetful-thank you for your kind words.  the article you cited is another excellent read.  thank you!  i am also a big proponent of antioxidant metabolism and through increased circulation with the proper diet and exercise keeps our bodies refreshed.  infrared may just be a more refined source of energy than houwarrior's fire.   

anyway, all good stuff.  now i'm back to leaning toward that fancy closet in the rec room.  they make them with glass doors and windows to the front.   so i'll either be able to watch the golf channel thru it, or see the clothes i have hanging in it.   the former is the goal.   


thanks guys!

My mother in law has an infrared cedar sauna in her spare bedroom.  She swears by it.  It has a glass door and a tv mounted on a swivel arm so you can watch your favorite shows while sitting in it.

With regards to the actual health benefits, I cannot specifically speak to whether or not it is any more affective than a traditional sauna, however, if you are looking for a good sweat, an infrared sauna will produce the results you are looking for.

I always found a good sweat after a heavy night of drinking did wonders for me...whether it was hitting the gym or lacing up the old skates and hitting a pickup game at the local rink, I always came out feeling better after getting in a good sweat.

Good luck in your search and I wish your wife a speedy recovery.

4everwarriors

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2020, 07:58:47 AM »
Yo, kin, you tryin to make code words for goin to da red lite district or what?





Maybee Mark Chmura wood bee a bedder reference. Hot tubs, saunas, it don't matta, aina?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 08:01:17 AM by 4everwarriors »
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

rocket surgeon

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2020, 04:28:32 PM »
My mother in law has an infrared cedar sauna in her spare bedroom.  She swears by it.  It has a glass door and a tv mounted on a swivel arm so you can watch your favorite shows while sitting in it.

With regards to the actual health benefits, I cannot specifically speak to whether or not it is any more affective than a traditional sauna, however, if you are looking for a good sweat, an infrared sauna will produce the results you are looking for.

I always found a good sweat after a heavy night of drinking did wonders for me...whether it was hitting the gym or lacing up the old skates and hitting a pickup game at the local rink, I always came out feeling better after getting in a good sweat.

Good luck in your search and I wish your wife a speedy recovery.

thanks DD-the one your ma has sounds very similar to the ones by jnh that i'm looking at.  glass doors and windows etc, good ratings.  as for infrared, my understanding is that it heats more from within and is just another form of energy to basically achieve the same results as houwarriors grandparents back in the 1800's(fire)  the articles sent by jf and forgetful, although pretty bland unless you have a bio background are fascinating
i'll take ape tit for $200 alex

Benny B

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Re: infrared saunas
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2020, 10:11:00 AM »
IMO, you are cleaned by your liver. So, toxins are filtered from there. Any cleanse, medication, wrap, lotion, etc that claims to eliminate toxins is BS.

This, Full Stop.  Every single "cleanse" product on the market is nothing more than an expensive placebo.


And unless the FDA, JAMA, NIH, etc. have reliable studies that they're deliberately suppressing, all this BS about "wavelengths," etc. is exactly that: BS.  Anyone who refuses to come out of the moron bucket on this one at the very least needs to look up what "FDA Cleared" actually designates (and how easy it is to get something FDA Cleared).

Benny's Guidelines to Wisdom #22: If something is advertised as "FDA Cleared," it's garbage.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 10:16:41 AM by Benny B »
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

 

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