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Author Topic: OH for Crying Out Loud  (Read 5656 times)

Johnny B

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2020, 09:25:39 PM »
You’re lying. No one is “demanding perfection” from a basketball team.
You're lying. I said near perfection. Lies

WhiteTrash

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2020, 09:30:08 PM »
<yawn>

Yes I understand that. And the fact that MU fans can’t take someone leaving their beloved program outside the top 25 or calling it like it is (MU isn’t some elite program) the pitchforks come out.

What’s funny is they get all up in arms when those guys “slight” MU, but then come on MUScoop and cry about Wojo not getting it done. Very bipolar.

It’s embarrassing.
Change topics much? Have a point and stick to it.

manesworld

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2020, 09:32:22 PM »
Change topics much? Have a point and stick to it.

Point: the MU fan base is softer than the team they claim to root for. Clear enough for you?

MarquetteDano

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2020, 03:37:57 AM »
I think the OP point was do we need to make a coaching decision after every loss? The same tired arguments over and over and the season isn't complete.

Understand arguing over things like the terrible foul at the end of reg. vs Butler. That is ground for discussion.

He isn't getting fired mid season,  even the most ardent NoJos know that.   Plenty of time post season to have at it.

WhiteTrash

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2020, 05:12:33 AM »
Point: the MU fan base is softer than the team they claim to root for. Clear enough for you?
Not a fan of MU or MU fans. Got it.

willie warrior

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2020, 06:15:12 AM »
Amazing watching the lunatics after a loss.
Yes Cheeky, your deflections become amazing after those losses.

willie warrior

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2020, 06:18:54 AM »
C'mon folks. We lost a game yesterday. Maybe we should have won it. But geez, does this mean that everytime we lose, Scoop will be loaded with "Fire Wojo" Moments. Let's wait until the season is over and see what might/can happen.

I think back to Coach McGuire and can only imagine what would happen if Scoop were around then:

On 1977: "Good Lord, Al is mailing it in! We haven't lose this many games since 1966. Why don't we just fire him now and be over it."

On 1974: "Al should be burned at the stake for those two technicals against NC State. No self respecting Catholic school allows that to happen! What an embarrassment!"

In 1976: "Al can't beat Bob Knight to save his life. We lost in 1973 and we lost now. Maybe we need a new coach who can get us to the promised land!

On 1970: "What was Al thinking? Turning down an NCAA bid? Is he out of his mind? Time for somebody who understands what we're about!

And on and on and on. I could go on all night with this. But the fact is coaches and teams have their ups and downs. We're going to lose games we should win and win games we should lose. But when the former happens, we don't hang signs wanting to fire the coach and we down throw our team under the bus.

Two things stand out. First, how many of you never made a mistake at work? Or as parents? Or students? I'm sure everyone in here has let another down on a more than a few occasions. How would you feel if there were dozens of people wanting your head?

Secondly, there is a time and place for program progress evaluation. It's not now. Like it or not, this is the horse we're riding on until March (or April?). Then and only then do we call for action!
Amazing. Comparing Al's top 10 consistency to wojos teams after almost 6 years. Truly amazing. Yes we need to wait at least 5 to 10 more years to thoroughly examine Wojos development. He has a lifetime contract that very few others have.

willie warrior

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2020, 06:20:41 AM »
Entitled? Come on man. You’re happy with Marquette’s results? If you’re fine with also-ran status with occasional at-best conference championships and sporadic (If at all) tourney success because we’re not on probation and kids seem to graduate, good for you.

But people wanting more, that have seen more be done here (not in the 70s, but in the last decade) doesn’t make them miserable or entitled. It makes them fans. There are the few who will only appear when losses happen. But there are plenty like me who post here every damn day and celebrate when we win that are still like “WTF” when troubling trends and results continue. There is a realm between Pollyanna and miserable and it’s beyond insulting to continue broad brush those not perfectly aligned with you.
Perfect description of Cheeky.

real chili 83

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2020, 06:27:47 AM »
You’re lying. No one is “demanding perfection” from a basketball team.

It’s official. Sultan has a whopper of a crush on JB.

dgies9156

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2020, 06:43:51 AM »
I think the OP point was do we need to make a coaching decision after every loss? The same tired arguments over and over and the season isn't complete.

Understand arguing over things like the terrible foul at the end of reg. vs Butler. That is ground for discussion.

He isn't getting fired mid season,  even the most ardent NoJos know that.   Plenty of time post season to have at it.

Exactly

The All comparison wasn’t abouta body of work. It was about using a single point in time reference to decide on someone.


real chili 83

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2020, 07:49:48 AM »
Wojo and Howard were tough to stomach Friday night.

Let’s see what the body of work is at the end of the year.  Me, I’m pretty skeptical at this point.

Really torn at this point about losing a great recruiting class with turning the coaching staff.  Maybe the answer is putting a Wainwright or a Keady or a Hank on the bench. Great leaders know their weaknesses and put people around them to compensate.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2020, 07:57:42 AM »
Wojo and Howard were tough to stomach Friday night.

Let’s see what the body of work is at the end of the year.  Me, I’m pretty skeptical at this point.

Really torn at this point about losing a great recruiting class with turning the coaching staff.  Maybe the answer is putting a Wainwright or a Keady or a Hank on the bench. Great leaders know their weaknesses and put people around them to compensate.


How many times are we going to say this?  He's older and has as much, or more coaching experience as KO, TC and BW had when they peaked at MU.  He spent how many years as an assistant at Duke?

You don't have to worry about losing this class because I doubt there is anyone else coaching this team for the next couple of seasons.  But the idea that a reincarnated Hank is going to fix his issues I think is little fanciful. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Goose

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2020, 08:20:05 AM »
I have said for last three years that I would be happy with a run like Xavier had for 15+ years. For the record, that is light years from MU ‘70’s success. Many on here think the Al crew is unrealistic, mainly because our posts are not read completely. I think most of us get the big picture quite well

There is no next Al era ever happening at MU again. 43 years has provided a lot of info to confirm that. I am 100% accepting and fine with that.

To me, as stated a couple of weeks ago, I would like us to be in the chased position and not the chaser. Countless posts of “what if’s” on how we get a better seed or move into fourth place in the BE. That is fine for a period of time, but not year in and year out.

Mock me if you want, but I do think the under 40 crew on here deserves to see a better program. I always stress the eye test and looking at computer analytics after every game is not for me. The program should be doing better on the court, regardless of computer stating our numbers.

I had little confidence going into this season and was focused on upcoming recruiting as a benchmark. That said, I have not seen much great basketball played by MU this season. There are countless posts touting individual play by the role players, which is merited, but seems to me it is always looking for a silver lining. My hope is that solid/good individual performances are the norm for the top 7 or do players, not reason for a four page thread.

I do not think what I am hoping for is unrealistic or based off of entitlement. Simply put, on court performance matters.

hairy worthen

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2020, 08:55:08 AM »
I have said for last three years that I would be happy with a run like Xavier had for 15+ years. For the record, that is light years from MU ‘70’s success. Many on here think the Al crew is unrealistic, mainly because our posts are not read completely. I think most of us get the big picture quite well

There is no next Al era ever happening at MU again. 43 years has provided a lot of info to confirm that. I am 100% accepting and fine with that.

To me, as stated a couple of weeks ago, I would like us to be in the chased position and not the chaser. Countless posts of “what if’s” on how we get a better seed or move into fourth place in the BE. That is fine for a period of time, but not year in and year out.

Mock me if you want, but I do think the under 40 crew on here deserves to see a better program. I always stress the eye test and looking at computer analytics after every game is not for me. The program should be doing better on the court, regardless of computer stating our numbers.

I had little confidence going into this season and was focused on upcoming recruiting as a benchmark. That said, I have not seen much great basketball played by MU this season. There are countless posts touting individual play by the role players, which is merited, but seems to me it is always looking for a silver lining. My hope is that solid/good individual performances are the norm for the top 7 or do players, not reason for a four page thread.

I do not think what I am hoping for is unrealistic or based off of entitlement. Simply put, on court performance matters.

Nice post. Sums up how I feel except my expectations are a little higher. The program should be at a point where we shouldn't need to pore over computer models just to see if we have a chance to get in the tournament or move from a 9 to 7 seed. What makes us inferior to say Villanova, Syracuse, Louisville, gonzaga. To me those are the programs we should strive to be like. I do not think we are a top 5 program that can compete for a final four every year, but we should be a top 10 to 25 type program that competes for a final four occasionally. I don't think thats too much to ask. Settling for what we have been the last half decade is concerning to me

Goose

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2020, 08:57:49 AM »
Hairy
I want better than X, but realistic expectations. Nova and Zags are great goals, but light years away from that the moment.

hairy worthen

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2020, 09:06:38 AM »
Hairy
I want better than X, but realistic expectations. Nova and Zags are great goals, but light years away from that the moment.
Unfortunately you are correct. I think in terms of resources, city, conference, history, facilities, nba arena, we are comparable to those programs I mention or better. Yet some people feel we should settle for less, I am not sure why

MikeDeanesDarkGlasses

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2020, 09:10:09 AM »
Unfortunately you are correct. I think in terms of resources, city, conference, history, facilities, nba arena, we are comparable to those programs I mention or better. Yet some people feel we should settle for less, I am not sure why

All that is wanted is an uptick in an ability to coach and develop players really.  It's not a huge jump.... nor much to ask for. 

Goose

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2020, 09:16:34 AM »
hairy
This how the older guys get in trouble. We actually saw a great program firsthand and remember how it feels. I would challenge every younger fan to remember the Wade FF or Buzz’s run and use that as a pint of reference. It was a helluva lot of fun playing at that level.

For those that think it is a personal thing they are flat out wrong, at least in regards to me. I strongly disliked Crean, but actually cried tears of joy when they beat Kentucky to advance to FF. I thought it would never happen again and I embraced the moment to the fullest.

Winning is awfully fun, and to me, hoping Cain has a big game or Purdue beats Michigan is not fun. That is hoping for Easter Bunny to stop by my house. The program should be doing better than that after six years.

4everwarriors

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2020, 09:35:30 AM »
Winning a game in the Tourney isn't too much to ask, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

79Warrior

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2020, 09:39:38 AM »
Winning a game in the Tourney isn't too much to ask, hey?

It would certainly be a good start.

real chili 83

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2020, 09:41:11 AM »

How many times are we going to say this?  He's older and has as much, or more coaching experience as KO, TC and BW had when they peaked at MU.  He spent how many years as an assistant at Duke?

You don't have to worry about losing this class because I doubt there is anyone else coaching this team for the next couple of seasons.  But the idea that a reincarnated Hank is going to fix his issues I think is little fanciful.

You may be right, but doing nothing different and expecting different results is a bit fanciful too.

MU82

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2020, 10:01:32 AM »
Wojo and Howard were tough to stomach Friday night.

Let’s see what the body of work is at the end of the year.  Me, I’m pretty skeptical at this point.

Really torn at this point about losing a great recruiting class with turning the coaching staff.  Maybe the answer is putting a Wainwright or a Keady or a Hank on the bench. Great leaders know their weaknesses and put people around them to compensate.

I understand your frustration, chili, and I share much of it. The last few minutes of regulation and then OT were especially difficult to watch.

As for your second paragraph, I'm not sure what you mean by "really torn." You have to know that Wojo is not going to get fired and, as a result, we will not be losing this great recruiting class. Or maybe you have joined those who are hoping that Wojo simply tires of the growing criticism from some fans and will move on to what he perceives as greener pastures? I do agree that a veteran coach would be a good addition to our staff.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than Scoop game threads."

-- Obi-wan Kenobi

manesworld

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2020, 10:12:02 AM »
Not a fan of MU or MU fans. Got it.

Big fan of MU. I’m not the one who thinks the team is soft, that’s what a number of people here claim, despite the facts showing MU is basically anything but soft.

I am starting to definitely understand why more than one media person thinks MU fans are the worst.

real chili 83

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2020, 10:13:27 AM »
I understand your frustration, chili, and I share much of it. The last few minutes of regulation and then OT were especially difficult to watch.

As for your second paragraph, I'm not sure what you mean by "really torn." You have to know that Wojo is not going to get fired and, as a result, we will not be losing this great recruiting class. Or maybe you have joined those who are hoping that Wojo simply tires of the growing criticism from some fans and will move on to what he perceives as greener pastures? I do agree that a veteran coach would be a good addition to our staff.

My point is that we need to do something, or nothing likely changes.

Cheeks

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Re: OH for Crying Out Loud
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2020, 10:31:04 AM »
Big fan of MU. I’m not the one who thinks the team is soft, that’s what a number of people here claim, despite the facts showing MU is basically anything but soft.

I am starting to definitely understand why more than one media person thinks MU fans are the worst.

Agree
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire