MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: dgies9156 on January 25, 2020, 08:00:06 PM
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C'mon folks. We lost a game yesterday. Maybe we should have won it. But geez, does this mean that everytime we lose, Scoop will be loaded with "Fire Wojo" Moments. Let's wait until the season is over and see what might/can happen.
I think back to Coach McGuire and can only imagine what would happen if Scoop were around then:
On 1977: "Good Lord, Al is mailing it in! We haven't lose this many games since 1966. Why don't we just fire him now and be over it."
On 1974: "Al should be burned at the stake for those two technicals against NC State. No self respecting Catholic school allows that to happen! What an embarrassment!"
In 1976: "Al can't beat Bob Knight to save his life. We lost in 1973 and we lost now. Maybe we need a new coach who can get us to the promised land!
On 1970: "What was Al thinking? Turning down an NCAA bid? Is he out of his mind? Time for somebody who understands what we're about!
And on and on and on. I could go on all night with this. But the fact is coaches and teams have their ups and downs. We're going to lose games we should win and win games we should lose. But when the former happens, we don't hang signs wanting to fire the coach and we down throw our team under the bus.
Two things stand out. First, how many of you never made a mistake at work? Or as parents? Or students? I'm sure everyone in here has let another down on a more than a few occasions. How would you feel if there were dozens of people wanting your head?
Secondly, there is a time and place for program progress evaluation. It's not now. Like it or not, this is the horse we're riding on until March (or April?). Then and only then do we call for action!
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Yes. Every loss will come with fire wojo posts and threads.
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C'mon folks. We lost a game yesterday. Maybe we should have won it. But geez, does this mean that everytime we lose, Scoop will be loaded with "Fire Wojo" Moments. Let's wait until the season is over and see what might/can happen.
I think back to Coach McGuire and can only imagine what would happen if Scoop were around then:
On 1977: "Good Lord, Al is mailing it in! We haven't lose this many games since 1966. Why don't we just fire him now and be over it."
On 1974: "Al should be burned at the stake for those two technicals against NC State. No self respecting Catholic school allows that to happen! What an embarrassment!"
In 1976: "Al can't beat Bob Knight to save his life. We lost in 1973 and we lost now. Maybe we need a new coach who can get us to the promised land!
On 1970: "What was Al thinking? Turning down an NCAA bid? Is he out of his mind? Time for somebody who understands what we're about!
And on and on and on. I could go on all night with this. But the fact is coaches and teams have their ups and downs. We're going to lose games we should win and win games we should lose. But when the former happens, we don't hang signs wanting to fire the coach and we down throw our team under the bus.
Two things stand out. First, how many of you never made a mistake at work? Or as parents? Or students? I'm sure everyone in here has let another down on a more than a few occasions. How would you feel if there were dozens of people wanting your head?
Secondly, there is a time and place for program progress evaluation. It's not now. Like it or not, this is the horse we're riding on until March (or April?). Then and only then do we call for action!
<yawn>
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C'mon folks. We lost a game yesterday. Maybe we should have won it. But geez, does this mean that everytime we lose, Scoop will be loaded with "Fire Wojo" Moments. Let's wait until the season is over and see what might/can happen.
Let's wait and see guy has entered the building.
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Look forward to the same post next year.
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Amazing watching the lunatics after a loss.
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C'mon folks. We lost a game yesterday. Maybe we should have won it. But geez, does this mean that everytime we lose, Scoop will be loaded with "Fire Wojo" Moments. Let's wait until the season is over and see what might/can happen.
I think back to Coach McGuire and can only imagine what would happen if Scoop were around then:
On 1977: "Good Lord, Al is mailing it in! We haven't lose this many games since 1966. Why don't we just fire him now and be over it."
On 1974: "Al should be burned at the stake for those two technicals against NC State. No self respecting Catholic school allows that to happen! What an embarrassment!"
In 1976: "Al can't beat Bob Knight to save his life. We lost in 1973 and we lost now. Maybe we need a new coach who can get us to the promised land!
On 1970: "What was Al thinking? Turning down an NCAA bid? Is he out of his mind? Time for somebody who understands what we're about!
And on and on and on. I could go on all night with this. But the fact is coaches and teams have their ups and downs. We're going to lose games we should win and win games we should lose. But when the former happens, we don't hang signs wanting to fire the coach and we down throw our team under the bus.
Two things stand out. First, how many of you never made a mistake at work? Or as parents? Or students? I'm sure everyone in here has let another down on a more than a few occasions. How would you feel if there were dozens of people wanting your head?
Secondly, there is a time and place for program progress evaluation. It's not now. Like it or not, this is the horse we're riding on until March (or April?). Then and only then do we call for action!
Wojo has lost more games in conference every year (assuming we don’t go 9-1 to end the year) than Al did all season in any of the years you mentioned other than 77. I get you’re trying to make a point but absolute absurdity isn’t a good method.
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Wojo has lost more games in conference every year (assuming we don’t go 9-1 to end the year) than Al did all season in any of the years you mentioned other than 77. I get you’re trying to make a point but absolute absurdity isn’t a good method.
His point was the lunatics here would bitch about winning the lottery having to pay taxes.
Some people are perpetually miserable and entitled.
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His point was the lunatics here would bitch about winning the lottery having to pay taxes.
Some people are perpetually miserable and entitled.
Entitled? Come on man. You’re happy with Marquette’s results? If you’re fine with also-ran status with occasional at-best conference championships and sporadic (If at all) tourney success because we’re not on probation and kids seem to graduate, good for you.
But people wanting more, that have seen more be done here (not in the 70s, but in the last decade) doesn’t make them miserable or entitled. It makes them fans. There are the few who will only appear when losses happen. But there are plenty like me who post here every damn day and celebrate when we win that are still like “WTF” when troubling trends and results continue. There is a realm between Pollyanna and miserable and it’s beyond insulting to continue broad brush those not perfectly aligned with you.
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Entitled? Come on man. You’re happy with Marquette’s results? If you’re fine with also-ran status with occasional conference championships and sporadic (If at all) tourney success because we’re not on probation and kids seem to graduate, good for you.
But people wanting more, that have seen more be done here (not in the 70s, but in the last decade) doesn’t make them miserable or entitled. It makes them fans. There are the few who will only appear when losses happen. But there are plenty like me who post here every damn day and celebrate when we win that are still like “WTF” when troubling trends and results continue. There is a realm between Pollyanna and miserable and it’s beyond insulting to continue broad brush those not perfectly aligned with you.
+1,000,000
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<yawn>
(https://www.mysanfordherald.com/sites/newsplus-base.etypegoogle10.com/files/snarky_48.jpg)
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Entitled? Come on man. You’re happy with Marquette’s results? If you’re fine with also-ran status with occasional at-best conference championships and sporadic (If at all) tourney success because we’re not on probation and kids seem to graduate, good for you.
But people wanting more, that have seen more be done here (not in the 70s, but in the last decade) doesn’t make them miserable or entitled. It makes them fans. There are the few who will only appear when losses happen. But there are plenty like me who post here every damn day and celebrate when we win that are still like “WTF” when troubling trends and results continue. There is a realm between Pollyanna and miserable and it’s beyond insulting to continue broad brush those not perfectly aligned with you.
The fact is that three of the last four Marquette coaches accomplished more, at a younger age and in less time, than Wojo has had here. This version of MU basketball is exceedingly frustrating compared to the past 25 years plus.
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Entitled? Come on man. You’re happy with Marquette’s results? If you’re fine with also-ran status with occasional at-best conference championships and sporadic (If at all) tourney success because we’re not on probation and kids seem to graduate, good for you.
But people wanting more, that have seen more be done here (not in the 70s, but in the last decade) doesn’t make them miserable or entitled. It makes them fans. There are the few who will only appear when losses happen. But there are plenty like me who post here every damn day and celebrate when we win that are still like “WTF” when troubling trends and results continue. There is a realm between Pollyanna and miserable and it’s beyond insulting to continue broad brush those not perfectly aligned with you.
You're entitled weirdos that demand near perfection from a college basket ball team. 20 year olds throwing a ball through a hoop. you just bitch and moan if we dont have duke like seasons it seems. Every damn loss. This team has potential to have a great year. Awesome class coming in. Wtf you want. I'm a bucks fan but if they don't finish 850. And make the finals every year I'm gonna bitch and moan about the team and coaches. Gtfo
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Yeah anybody who doesn’t think Marquette fans are entitled are just blinded by their own entitlement.
There’s a reason Dauster, Norlander, and Parish all say some version of it and how annoying it is.
It’s kind of embarrassing really.
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That was strange and awkward.
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You're entitled weirdos that demand near perfection from a college basket ball team. 20 year olds throwing a ball through a hoop. you just bitch and moan if we dont have duke like seasons it seems. Every damn loss.
This is false. You are lying.
I fully expect Marquette to lose games. I don't really expect conference championships or Final Four appearances. However I do expect teams that play hard and to be well coached. Not coached by a guy who forgets the score and stands around when adjustments need to be made.
The fact is that in terms of conference and NCAA success, this is the LEAST successful stretch we have had in a long time. And no, this team does not have potential to have a great year.
Wags is a level-headed guy who doesn't just go off on every loss. I think he, like me, has just reached the end of his rope. I've lost faith in the guy. Recruiting victories don't mean much if the guy coaching them can't do the job.
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Yeah anybody who doesn’t think Marquette fans are entitled are just blinded by their own entitlement.
There’s a reason Dauster, Norlander, and Parish all say some version of it and how annoying it is.
It’s kind of embarrassing really.
What’s really embarrassing is when your coach forgets the score at the end of regulation.
We’re all so unreasonable and entitled. Spare me
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Yeah anybody who doesn’t think Marquette fans are entitled are just blinded by their own entitlement.
There’s a reason Dauster, Norlander, and Parish all say some version of it and how annoying it is.
It’s kind of embarrassing really.
Parish? Ha, haa, Haaaa, Haha,
When you look up embarrassing in the dictionary, Parish picture is there.
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Recruiting victories don't mean much if the guy coaching them can't do the job.
Precisely
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Parish? Ha, haa, Haaaa, Haha,
When you look up embarrassing in the dictionary, Parish picture is there.
You’re right. We should wear it like a badge of honor.
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I for one, don't give two craps what Dauster, Norlander or Parrish think about the Marquette fanbase. If they think we are "entitled," so be it. The idea that that label would "embarrass" anyone is laughable.
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Yeah anybody who doesn’t think Marquette fans are entitled are just blinded by their own entitlement.
There’s a reason Dauster, Norlander, and Parish all say some version of it and how annoying it is.
It’s kind of embarrassing really.
They say stuff about Marquette because any time a fact is wrong or there’s a perceived slight, MU fans let them know about it.
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I for one, don't give two craps what Dauster, Norlander or Parrish think about the Marquette fanbase. If they think we are "entitled," so be it. The idea that that label would "embarrass" anyone is laughable.
<yawn>
They say stuff about Marquette because any time a fact is wrong or there’s a perceived slight, MU fans let them know about it.
Yes I understand that. And the fact that MU fans can’t take someone leaving their beloved program outside the top 25 or calling it like it is (MU isn’t some elite program) the pitchforks come out.
What’s funny is they get all up in arms when those guys “slight” MU, but then come on MUScoop and cry about Wojo not getting it done. Very bipolar.
It’s embarrassing.
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This is false. You are lying.
I fully expect Marquette to lose games. I don't really expect conference championships or Final Four appearances. However I do expect teams that play hard and to be well coached. Not coached by a guy who forgets the score and stands around when adjustments need to be made.
The fact is that in terms of conference and NCAA success, this is the LEAST successful stretch we have had in a long time. And no, this team does not have potential to have a great year.
Wags is a level-headed guy who doesn't just go off on every loss. I think he, like me, has just reached the end of his rope. I've lost faith in the guy. Recruiting victories don't mean much if the guy coaching them can't do the job.
Lmao I am not lying. It's just the vibe IT SEEMS you and others are putting out there. And you're being disingenuous saying they have no potential to have a great year. What kind of fan is that? Well of course they could have a great year! Wtf are you talking about? they could also lose 75 percent of the remaining games. Well see
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Lmao I am not lying. It's just the vibe IT SEEMS you and others are putting out there. And you're being disingenuous saying they have no potential to have a great year. What kind of fan is that? Well of course they could have a great year! Wtf are you talking about? they could also lose 75 percent of the remaining games. Well see
You’re lying. No one is “demanding perfection” from a basketball team.
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You’re lying. No one is “demanding perfection” from a basketball team.
You're lying. I said near perfection. Lies
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<yawn>
Yes I understand that. And the fact that MU fans can’t take someone leaving their beloved program outside the top 25 or calling it like it is (MU isn’t some elite program) the pitchforks come out.
What’s funny is they get all up in arms when those guys “slight” MU, but then come on MUScoop and cry about Wojo not getting it done. Very bipolar.
It’s embarrassing.
Change topics much? Have a point and stick to it.
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Change topics much? Have a point and stick to it.
Point: the MU fan base is softer than the team they claim to root for. Clear enough for you?
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I think the OP point was do we need to make a coaching decision after every loss? The same tired arguments over and over and the season isn't complete.
Understand arguing over things like the terrible foul at the end of reg. vs Butler. That is ground for discussion.
He isn't getting fired mid season, even the most ardent NoJos know that. Plenty of time post season to have at it.
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Point: the MU fan base is softer than the team they claim to root for. Clear enough for you?
Not a fan of MU or MU fans. Got it.
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Amazing watching the lunatics after a loss.
Yes Cheeky, your deflections become amazing after those losses.
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C'mon folks. We lost a game yesterday. Maybe we should have won it. But geez, does this mean that everytime we lose, Scoop will be loaded with "Fire Wojo" Moments. Let's wait until the season is over and see what might/can happen.
I think back to Coach McGuire and can only imagine what would happen if Scoop were around then:
On 1977: "Good Lord, Al is mailing it in! We haven't lose this many games since 1966. Why don't we just fire him now and be over it."
On 1974: "Al should be burned at the stake for those two technicals against NC State. No self respecting Catholic school allows that to happen! What an embarrassment!"
In 1976: "Al can't beat Bob Knight to save his life. We lost in 1973 and we lost now. Maybe we need a new coach who can get us to the promised land!
On 1970: "What was Al thinking? Turning down an NCAA bid? Is he out of his mind? Time for somebody who understands what we're about!
And on and on and on. I could go on all night with this. But the fact is coaches and teams have their ups and downs. We're going to lose games we should win and win games we should lose. But when the former happens, we don't hang signs wanting to fire the coach and we down throw our team under the bus.
Two things stand out. First, how many of you never made a mistake at work? Or as parents? Or students? I'm sure everyone in here has let another down on a more than a few occasions. How would you feel if there were dozens of people wanting your head?
Secondly, there is a time and place for program progress evaluation. It's not now. Like it or not, this is the horse we're riding on until March (or April?). Then and only then do we call for action!
Amazing. Comparing Al's top 10 consistency to wojos teams after almost 6 years. Truly amazing. Yes we need to wait at least 5 to 10 more years to thoroughly examine Wojos development. He has a lifetime contract that very few others have.
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Entitled? Come on man. You’re happy with Marquette’s results? If you’re fine with also-ran status with occasional at-best conference championships and sporadic (If at all) tourney success because we’re not on probation and kids seem to graduate, good for you.
But people wanting more, that have seen more be done here (not in the 70s, but in the last decade) doesn’t make them miserable or entitled. It makes them fans. There are the few who will only appear when losses happen. But there are plenty like me who post here every damn day and celebrate when we win that are still like “WTF” when troubling trends and results continue. There is a realm between Pollyanna and miserable and it’s beyond insulting to continue broad brush those not perfectly aligned with you.
Perfect description of Cheeky.
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You’re lying. No one is “demanding perfection” from a basketball team.
It’s official. Sultan has a whopper of a crush on JB.
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I think the OP point was do we need to make a coaching decision after every loss? The same tired arguments over and over and the season isn't complete.
Understand arguing over things like the terrible foul at the end of reg. vs Butler. That is ground for discussion.
He isn't getting fired mid season, even the most ardent NoJos know that. Plenty of time post season to have at it.
Exactly
The All comparison wasn’t abouta body of work. It was about using a single point in time reference to decide on someone.
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Wojo and Howard were tough to stomach Friday night.
Let’s see what the body of work is at the end of the year. Me, I’m pretty skeptical at this point.
Really torn at this point about losing a great recruiting class with turning the coaching staff. Maybe the answer is putting a Wainwright or a Keady or a Hank on the bench. Great leaders know their weaknesses and put people around them to compensate.
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Wojo and Howard were tough to stomach Friday night.
Let’s see what the body of work is at the end of the year. Me, I’m pretty skeptical at this point.
Really torn at this point about losing a great recruiting class with turning the coaching staff. Maybe the answer is putting a Wainwright or a Keady or a Hank on the bench. Great leaders know their weaknesses and put people around them to compensate.
How many times are we going to say this? He's older and has as much, or more coaching experience as KO, TC and BW had when they peaked at MU. He spent how many years as an assistant at Duke?
You don't have to worry about losing this class because I doubt there is anyone else coaching this team for the next couple of seasons. But the idea that a reincarnated Hank is going to fix his issues I think is little fanciful.
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I have said for last three years that I would be happy with a run like Xavier had for 15+ years. For the record, that is light years from MU ‘70’s success. Many on here think the Al crew is unrealistic, mainly because our posts are not read completely. I think most of us get the big picture quite well
There is no next Al era ever happening at MU again. 43 years has provided a lot of info to confirm that. I am 100% accepting and fine with that.
To me, as stated a couple of weeks ago, I would like us to be in the chased position and not the chaser. Countless posts of “what if’s” on how we get a better seed or move into fourth place in the BE. That is fine for a period of time, but not year in and year out.
Mock me if you want, but I do think the under 40 crew on here deserves to see a better program. I always stress the eye test and looking at computer analytics after every game is not for me. The program should be doing better on the court, regardless of computer stating our numbers.
I had little confidence going into this season and was focused on upcoming recruiting as a benchmark. That said, I have not seen much great basketball played by MU this season. There are countless posts touting individual play by the role players, which is merited, but seems to me it is always looking for a silver lining. My hope is that solid/good individual performances are the norm for the top 7 or do players, not reason for a four page thread.
I do not think what I am hoping for is unrealistic or based off of entitlement. Simply put, on court performance matters.
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I have said for last three years that I would be happy with a run like Xavier had for 15+ years. For the record, that is light years from MU ‘70’s success. Many on here think the Al crew is unrealistic, mainly because our posts are not read completely. I think most of us get the big picture quite well
There is no next Al era ever happening at MU again. 43 years has provided a lot of info to confirm that. I am 100% accepting and fine with that.
To me, as stated a couple of weeks ago, I would like us to be in the chased position and not the chaser. Countless posts of “what if’s” on how we get a better seed or move into fourth place in the BE. That is fine for a period of time, but not year in and year out.
Mock me if you want, but I do think the under 40 crew on here deserves to see a better program. I always stress the eye test and looking at computer analytics after every game is not for me. The program should be doing better on the court, regardless of computer stating our numbers.
I had little confidence going into this season and was focused on upcoming recruiting as a benchmark. That said, I have not seen much great basketball played by MU this season. There are countless posts touting individual play by the role players, which is merited, but seems to me it is always looking for a silver lining. My hope is that solid/good individual performances are the norm for the top 7 or do players, not reason for a four page thread.
I do not think what I am hoping for is unrealistic or based off of entitlement. Simply put, on court performance matters.
Nice post. Sums up how I feel except my expectations are a little higher. The program should be at a point where we shouldn't need to pore over computer models just to see if we have a chance to get in the tournament or move from a 9 to 7 seed. What makes us inferior to say Villanova, Syracuse, Louisville, gonzaga. To me those are the programs we should strive to be like. I do not think we are a top 5 program that can compete for a final four every year, but we should be a top 10 to 25 type program that competes for a final four occasionally. I don't think thats too much to ask. Settling for what we have been the last half decade is concerning to me
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Hairy
I want better than X, but realistic expectations. Nova and Zags are great goals, but light years away from that the moment.
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Hairy
I want better than X, but realistic expectations. Nova and Zags are great goals, but light years away from that the moment.
Unfortunately you are correct. I think in terms of resources, city, conference, history, facilities, nba arena, we are comparable to those programs I mention or better. Yet some people feel we should settle for less, I am not sure why
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Unfortunately you are correct. I think in terms of resources, city, conference, history, facilities, nba arena, we are comparable to those programs I mention or better. Yet some people feel we should settle for less, I am not sure why
All that is wanted is an uptick in an ability to coach and develop players really. It's not a huge jump.... nor much to ask for.
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hairy
This how the older guys get in trouble. We actually saw a great program firsthand and remember how it feels. I would challenge every younger fan to remember the Wade FF or Buzz’s run and use that as a pint of reference. It was a helluva lot of fun playing at that level.
For those that think it is a personal thing they are flat out wrong, at least in regards to me. I strongly disliked Crean, but actually cried tears of joy when they beat Kentucky to advance to FF. I thought it would never happen again and I embraced the moment to the fullest.
Winning is awfully fun, and to me, hoping Cain has a big game or Purdue beats Michigan is not fun. That is hoping for Easter Bunny to stop by my house. The program should be doing better than that after six years.
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Winning a game in the Tourney isn't too much to ask, hey?
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Winning a game in the Tourney isn't too much to ask, hey?
It would certainly be a good start.
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How many times are we going to say this? He's older and has as much, or more coaching experience as KO, TC and BW had when they peaked at MU. He spent how many years as an assistant at Duke?
You don't have to worry about losing this class because I doubt there is anyone else coaching this team for the next couple of seasons. But the idea that a reincarnated Hank is going to fix his issues I think is little fanciful.
You may be right, but doing nothing different and expecting different results is a bit fanciful too.
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Wojo and Howard were tough to stomach Friday night.
Let’s see what the body of work is at the end of the year. Me, I’m pretty skeptical at this point.
Really torn at this point about losing a great recruiting class with turning the coaching staff. Maybe the answer is putting a Wainwright or a Keady or a Hank on the bench. Great leaders know their weaknesses and put people around them to compensate.
I understand your frustration, chili, and I share much of it. The last few minutes of regulation and then OT were especially difficult to watch.
As for your second paragraph, I'm not sure what you mean by "really torn." You have to know that Wojo is not going to get fired and, as a result, we will not be losing this great recruiting class. Or maybe you have joined those who are hoping that Wojo simply tires of the growing criticism from some fans and will move on to what he perceives as greener pastures? I do agree that a veteran coach would be a good addition to our staff.
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Not a fan of MU or MU fans. Got it.
Big fan of MU. I’m not the one who thinks the team is soft, that’s what a number of people here claim, despite the facts showing MU is basically anything but soft.
I am starting to definitely understand why more than one media person thinks MU fans are the worst.
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I understand your frustration, chili, and I share much of it. The last few minutes of regulation and then OT were especially difficult to watch.
As for your second paragraph, I'm not sure what you mean by "really torn." You have to know that Wojo is not going to get fired and, as a result, we will not be losing this great recruiting class. Or maybe you have joined those who are hoping that Wojo simply tires of the growing criticism from some fans and will move on to what he perceives as greener pastures? I do agree that a veteran coach would be a good addition to our staff.
My point is that we need to do something, or nothing likely changes.
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Big fan of MU. I’m not the one who thinks the team is soft, that’s what a number of people here claim, despite the facts showing MU is basically anything but soft.
I am starting to definitely understand why more than one media person thinks MU fans are the worst.
Agree
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Winning a game in the Tourney isn't too much to ask, hey?
It all comes down to this. What happens in the regular season only matters because it makes it more or less likely to win games in mid-March. We've waited 5 years. This breakthrough needs to happen this year.
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My point is that we need to do something, or nothing likely changes.
"We" -- meaning you and me -- can't do anything.
But sure, again, bringing in a "seasoned coach" would be great.
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I have said for last three years that I would be happy with a run like Xavier had for 15+ years. For the record, that is light years from MU ‘70’s success. Many on here think the Al crew is unrealistic, mainly because our posts are not read completely. I think most of us get the big picture quite well
There is no next Al era ever happening at MU again. 43 years has provided a lot of info to confirm that. I am 100% accepting and fine with that.
To me, as stated a couple of weeks ago, I would like us to be in the chased position and not the chaser. Countless posts of “what if’s” on how we get a better seed or move into fourth place in the BE. That is fine for a period of time, but not year in and year out.
Mock me if you want, but I do think the under 40 crew on here deserves to see a better program. I always stress the eye test and looking at computer analytics after every game is not for me. The program should be doing better on the court, regardless of computer stating our numbers.
I had little confidence going into this season and was focused on upcoming recruiting as a benchmark. That said, I have not seen much great basketball played by MU this season. There are countless posts touting individual play by the role players, which is merited, but seems to me it is always looking for a silver lining. My hope is that solid/good individual performances are the norm for the top 7 or do players, not reason for a four page thread.
I do not think what I am hoping for is unrealistic or based off of entitlement. Simply put, on court performance matters.
Goose, I think that's the best post I've ever seen from you.
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Big fan of MU. I’m not the one who thinks the team is soft, that’s what a number of people here claim, despite the facts showing MU is basically anything but soft.
I am starting to definitely understand why more than one media person thinks MU fans are the worst.
agreed
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It’s official. Sultan has a whopper of a crush on JB.
Ha....not sure the feeling is mutual however.
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hairy
This how the older guys get in trouble. We actually saw a great program firsthand and remember how it feels. I would challenge every younger fan to remember the Wade FF or Buzz’s run and use that as a pint of reference. It was a helluva lot of fun playing at that level.
For those that think it is a personal thing they are flat out wrong, at least in regards to me. I strongly disliked Crean, but actually cried tears of joy when they beat Kentucky to advance to FF. I thought it would never happen again and I embraced the moment to the fullest.
Winning is awfully fun, and to me, hoping Cain has a big game or Purdue beats Michigan is not fun. That is hoping for Easter Bunny to stop by my house. The program should be doing better than that after six years.
I think all of us want to get back to being a winning program with consistent top 10-25 rankings and occasional final fours but over the last two years, at least, there have been multiple opinions on how to get to that point.
Many thought Wojo should have been fired after year four and many more after year five. Some of us wanted a longer leash for Wojo (myself included) because we saw steady growth and felt like a coach that stayed for longer than 5 or 6 years was a blueprint to get to where we all want to go especially if the recruiting remained strong.
Don’t dismiss the projos as having no desire to succeed at the highest levels. We will start dropping like flies if the trend of the program starts going down or simply plateaus (which may already be happening). But some of us will keep from being overly negative until at least the end of the season.
This season could still finish the way we all want it too with a couple of tournament wins. Then with the strong class for next year the arrow would still be pointing up just not as steeply as some would like. Consistency in coaching may get us to the promised land sooner than you might think and then we can all be happy.
I hope so anyway. Go MU!
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I have said for last three years that I would be happy with a run like Xavier had for 15+ years. For the record, that is light years from MU ‘70’s success. Many on here think the Al crew is unrealistic, mainly because our posts are not read completely. I think most of us get the big picture quite well
There is no next Al era ever happening at MU again. 43 years has provided a lot of info to confirm that. I am 100% accepting and fine with that.
To me, as stated a couple of weeks ago, I would like us to be in the chased position and not the chaser. Countless posts of “what if’s” on how we get a better seed or move into fourth place in the BE. That is fine for a period of time, but not year in and year out.
Mock me if you want, but I do think the under 40 crew on here deserves to see a better program. I always stress the eye test and looking at computer analytics after every game is not for me. The program should be doing better on the court, regardless of computer stating our numbers.
I had little confidence going into this season and was focused on upcoming recruiting as a benchmark. That said, I have not seen much great basketball played by MU this season. There are countless posts touting individual play by the role players, which is merited, but seems to me it is always looking for a silver lining. My hope is that solid/good individual performances are the norm for the top 7 or do players, not reason for a four page thread.
I do not think what I am hoping for is unrealistic or based off of entitlement. Simply put, on court performance matters.
Solid and spot on, hey?
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shooter
Us old Nojo's don't drop like flies. We watch, we comment and try to bring "our" perspective to the conversation. From my perspective, five years without a win in March was a pretty long leash. As I noted in another post, I feel that many of the folks on here are looking for silver linings in every game, lost recruit or a transfer.
If you check my posts I am not always doom and gloom. I threw praise to Howard after St. John's game, I have stated I believe Wojo may end up being a top recruiter and I said John was my player of the game a couple of games ago. My premise in most of my posts in based off experience. I have seen programs slide and have seen them thrive, and currently this one is stuck in quick sand. There are countless of programs stuck in quick sand, but they do not pay their coach $2.2m, have private jet at their access and play in a city with one of the world's most popular basketball players.
I have been told countless times to go follow another program or asked why do I bother to follow MU and the answer is simple, I want to see it get done. Would have (possibly might) been great to see Wojo be the guy to get it done, but unless silver linings are spun there is no real success. This idiot will be following MU ball until I am off the air and hoping for better results. Have said it a million times, if MU brass is happy with the entire package of results I can live with that. If they are not, do something about it. You cannot say you want to have a great program on the court and accept an average program on the court.
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shooter
Us old Nojo's don't drop like flies. We watch, we comment and try to bring "our" perspective to the conversation. From my perspective, five years without a win in March was a pretty long leash. As I noted in another post, I feel that many of the folks on here are looking for silver linings in every game, lost recruit or a transfer.
If you check my posts I am not always doom and gloom. I threw praise to Howard after St. John's game, I have stated I believe Wojo may end up being a top recruiter and I said John was my player of the game a couple of games ago. My premise in most of my posts in based off experience. I have seen programs slide and have seen them thrive, and currently this one is stuck in quick sand. There are countless of programs stuck in quick sand, but they do not pay their coach $2.2m, have private jet at their access and play in a city with one of the world's most popular basketball players.
I have been told countless times to go follow another program or asked why do I bother to follow MU and the answer is simple, I want to see it get done. Would have (possibly might) been great to see Wojo be the guy to get it done, but unless silver linings are spun there is no real success. This idiot will be following MU ball until I am off the air and hoping for better results. Have said it a million times, if MU brass is happy with the entire package of results I can live with that. If they are not, do something about it. You cannot say you want to have a great program on the court and accept an average program on the court.
reading goose posts are like listening to mr miyagi- sweep'in the scoop leg again goose! 8-)
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I can't wait for Marquette to get a couple NCAA wins this year. If only to see what the next excuse to fire Wojo is...
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I can't wait for Marquette to get a couple NCAA wins this year. If only to see what the next excuse to fire Wojo is...
This post will either age very well, or very badly. I need to bookmark it.
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As an old-time Warrior who goes back as far as Brother Goose, I’ve conceded that it is unlikely we will have anything like the Al era. Heck, the talent in college basketball is so disbursed relative to what it was in those days (and better too, candidly), that I question whether 95%-plus of the teams in the NCAA could do what we did, along with UCLA and North Carolina back in the days.
Heck UNC probably won’t make the NCAA this year.
The goal should be to consistently be among the Top 10 percent of all Division 1 basketball playing universities, which would mean that we consistently are 30th or better. That means that once in awhile, we’ll have an off year and periodically, we’ll be a Top 5 team. While I think we have made progress toward this goal, we’re not there yet.
What I suspect has triggered the ire of most of us is that awful post-tournament poll which ranked us 5th in the nation in April. It was before the Hauser boys left but after the Murray State debacle. We’re comparing this year’s team to that expectation. With the exception of Purdue and Villanova, nothing we have done this year measures up to that level of expectation.
The university has three options. It can ride this horse for another year or two (likely scenario) and see if this incoming class is what we think it will be. Particularly if Mr. Mane comes, expectations for next year may be even higher than this year (erroneously, since the core of next year’s team, absent a grad transfer will be freshmen).
We can adjust and bring a new assistant like, say, Steve Lavin, who is on the beach and could help strategize the game-day preparation. They are out there and may be able to help. Maybe.
The third is to start over. We’d be 12-20 next year, at best, and we won’t reach the Top 10 percent goal for at least three years. We would lose the incomings and probably lose momentum elsewhere unless we went out and hired a very dynamic coach — an Al-like personality. That’s not going to fly in the button down world MU is today.
I expect we’ll ride this horse for another two years. Accept it and move on! Cheer our guys on!
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rocky
We agree!!! I can't wait for MU to get a couple of wins in the NCAA as well.
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We agree!!! I can't wait for MU to get a couple of wins in the NCAA as well.
I think all (well, most) agree that would be a good outcome to the season.
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Would you rather:
End the season on a 10 game win streak, finish Second in the Big East, win a couple in NYC, get a 4 seed, and lose first round. or
Finish 8-10 in the league, get an 11 seed, win the first game, lose the second
Too lazy for or a poll, or its not poll worthy
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Would you rather:
End the season on a 10 game win streak, finish Second in the Big East, win a couple in NYC, get a 4 seed, and lose first round. or
Finish 8-10 in the league, get an 11 seed, win the first game, lose the second
Too lazy for or a poll, or its not poll worthy
The first would make me more confident in Wojo going forward.
If the second option was a Sweet Sixteen, I’d maybe lean that way. I think having some real success in March would do wonders to re-energize the program.
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Would you rather:
End the season on a 10 game win streak, finish Second in the Big East, win a couple in NYC, get a 4 seed, and lose first round. or
Finish 8-10 in the league, get an 11 seed, win the first game, lose the second
Too lazy for or a poll, or its not poll worthy
First one, no question. Honestly I'd take the first one over a Sweet 16 or Elite Eight appearance too.
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Would you rather:
End the season on a 10 game win streak, finish Second in the Big East, win a couple in NYC, get a 4 seed, and lose first round. or
Finish 8-10 in the league, get an 11 seed, win the first game, lose the second
Too lazy for or a poll, or its not poll worthy
Option A. And, for me, that's an easy call.
I understand and agree with the angst on the lack of tourney wins. However, showing a period of sustained success in conference would give me a great deal more confidence in Wojo moving forward.
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First one, no question. Honestly I'd take the first one over a Sweet 16 or Elite Eight appearance too.
Over an elite 8 run? Really? The tournament is what teams play for. An elite 8 appearance makes MU more relevant than a good conference run and win or two in the conference tournament.
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Over an elite 8 run? Really? The tournament is what teams play for. An elite 8 appearance makes MU more relevant than a good conference run and win or two in the conference tournament.
Yeah, that's too far for me. Give me that Elite 8 all day.
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Over an elite 8 run? Really? The tournament is what teams play for. An elite 8 appearance makes MU more relevant than a good conference run and win or two in the conference tournament.
Undeserving Elite 8 (or similar) runs are what convince people bad coaches are good. An undeserved Final 4 convinced everyone Shaka was the wunderkind.
I prefer a consistent winner that can do it all season long. Give me a Tony Bennett over a Shaka Smart any day, but to each their own, I guess.
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Over an elite 8 run? Really? The tournament is what teams play for. An elite 8 appearance makes MU more relevant than a good conference run and win or two in the conference tournament.
Can you name all the elite 8 participants from last season? The season before? The season before that? I can't. I can name all the Final Four participants since I was in high school. Elite Eights are fun when they are happening, but they don't really move the need in my opinion. First round loss and elite eight loss doesn't make much difference to me other than a couple of weeks of fun.
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Can you name all the elite 8 participants from last season? The season before? The season before that? I can't. I can name all the Final Four participants since I was in high school. Elite Eights are fun when they are happening, but they don't really move the need in my opinion. First round loss and elite eight loss doesn't make much difference to me other than a couple of weeks of fun.
Good point. But, I would take the fun. It's been awhile.
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Can you name all the elite 8 participants from last season? The season before? The season before that? I can't. I can name all the Final Four participants since I was in high school. Elite Eights are fun when they are happening, but they don't really move the need in my opinion. First round loss and elite eight loss doesn't make much difference to me other than a couple of weeks of fun.
I couldn't even tell you the winner, but maybe that another problem.
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rocky
We agree!!! I can't wait for MU to get a couple of wins in the NCAA as well.
Eye might toilet paper Woj's crib if dat happens, hey?
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Every sports team has a percentage of entitled fans. This is just a fact. Determining level of entitlement is all relative. Compared to similar programs that had a set of "glory days" decades ago (UCLA, I4), I think we have a mostly reasonable set of fans and the entitlement that goes with it. Compared to our "current peers" i.e. the Big East, the only set of more entitled fans is Georgetown, partly due to the extremely strong connection to their "'glory days" the last decade plus. I know that someone is going to respond with a comment about how much money we spend, but until Universities can start (legally) bribing recruits, that should not be a large contributor to the fan-bases expectations IMO.
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Goose,
I know you are a great fan. My drop like flies comment was for projos dropping off the Wojo band wagon. Not the program band wagon. I guess what I am saying is we too will reach the end of our rope with him as you have already done. Definitely not questioning your fandom or love for MU.
I also think that we all have had several teams in our lifetime that we root for succeed at the highest (championship) level. 70s MU fans are not the only ones who have witnessed this. I and everyone in here gets what striving for championships looks like, despite being a little too young to have seen the 70s teams first hand. I was seven in 77. I don’t think witnessing this in person in your teens qualifies you or anyone else as more of an expert on building championship programs.
I have always been open to the fact that you may be right on Wojo not being the correct man for the job. I just need a few more data points to reach the same conclusion.
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Can you name all the elite 8 participants from last season? The season before? The season before that? I can't. I can name all the Final Four participants since I was in high school. Elite Eights are fun when they are happening, but they don't really move the need in my opinion. First round loss and elite eight loss doesn't make much difference to me other than a couple of weeks of fun.
In recent memory the run to the elite 8 vs. Syracuse sticks out a lot more than any old regular season game or run.
And I don't care about other teams so no I don't memorize elite eight or final four contestants each year. But I'd like to think recruits make more of a note on tournament success than regular season wins when looking at schools. Which is why I'd love to see a tournament run with average regular season success.
I see both sides but it's just kind of funny because the majority of people bashing the coach use the lack of tournament success as one of the biggest factors for the dissatisfaction. If there's one thing to boost morale for the average MU fan it's a deep tournament run. Not a regular season winning streak. Last season's 12-1 stretch was spoiled by a tournament loss. I'd easily take a handful of additional losses in there to get a win in the tournament.
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shooter
I agree on not being an expert on building a program. I respect anyone that wants more data points on Wojo before making a call on they feel about him. I would say that those who have enough data points to make a call should receive the same level of respect.
FYI--If you were seven in '77 you are too old to be in the young guns of scoop camp:)
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Agreed on both points. I feel older every day.
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Would you rather:
End the season on a 10 game win streak, finish Second in the Big East, win a couple in NYC, get a 4 seed, and lose first round. or
Finish 8-10 in the league, get an 11 seed, win the first game, lose the second
Too lazy for or a poll, or its not poll worthy
Easy answer for me.
I'd take the elite 8 all day every day.
The benefit of the national spotlight for recruiting alone makes it the easy choice.
The fun and excitement of making a decent run is another reason the choice seems obvious.
It can also be taken as an indication that the players have developed over the course of the season, and the experience they gather from a decent run could carry over to the next season for the returning players.
Barring injuries, tournament success or failure can be a good measuring stick of a programs progress. It definitely deserves to be considered.
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Easy answer for me.
I'd take the elite 8 all day every day.
The benefit of the national spotlight for recruiting alone makes it the easy choice.
The fun and excitement of making a decent run is another reason the choice seems obvious.
It can also be taken as an indication that the players have developed over the course of the season, and the experience they gather from a decent run could carry over to the next season for the returning players.
Barring injuries, tournament success or failure can be a good measuring stick of a programs progress. It definitely deserves to be considered.
ok, but my hypo didnt have Elite 8
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Maybe the title of these threads should be OH the CRYING ! ! ! 8-)
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ok, but my hypo didnt have Elite 8
Sorry, I meant to respond to another poster.
In your hypo I would go with B just so the Wojo can't win in the tourney trope would be put to rest.
I know another one would take its place but at least it would be new.
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Option 1 every time.
It's 5 months of entertainment for me. I'd rather have a successful, entertaining 5 months that ends in a disappointing loss in March than a frustrating 5 months that ends in one successful week.
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It’s official. Sultan has a whopper of a crush on JB.
Chili Man
I actually appreciate the "New and Improved" Sultan.
He is spot on saying that no one is "demanding perfection" and that also-ran mediocrity is unacceptable.
We all care passionately about Marquette basketball. Frankly, the program is of strategic importance to the University and its relevance in the national conversation. Anything less than sustained excellence harms the Marquette brand. And given the significant investment the University makes in the basketball program it deserves better results.
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Chili Man
I actually appreciate the "New and Improved" Sultan.
He is spot on saying that no one is "demanding perfection" and that also-ran mediocrity is unacceptable.
We all care passionately about Marquette basketball. Frankly, the program is of strategic importance to the University and its relevance in the national conversation. Anything less than sustained excellence harms the Marquette brand. And given the significant investment the University makes in the basketball program it deserves better results.
Just gigging Sultan.
The university should demand more for its investment.
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Just gigging Sultan.
The university should demand more for its investment.
How much more?
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Crash
The new Sultan is taking no prisoners. He wants better results and not making excuses.
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How much more?
At least Wojos first born.
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Eye'm down wit Fluffy BM, hey?
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Eye'm down wit Fluffy BM, hey?
Me too, but I got to eat some grains to get that.
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How much more?
More than zero tournament wins in a 6 year period. The opportunity to deliver is there for the taking! Let's cash in.
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Titus and Tate talked about how annoying Marquette fans are on their podcast on Friday as well. We are *that* fanbase. Sad.
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Titus and Tate talked about how annoying Marquette fans are on their podcast on Friday as well. We are *that* fanbase. Sad.
Are we supposed to care about Titus and Tate, and their tiny-ass audience?
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Who is Titus and Tate??? Why would/should we care what they say??? 8-)
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Titus and Tate talked about how annoying Marquette fans are on their podcast on Friday as well. We are *that* fanbase. Sad.
Titus decided to die on a hill that was not based on any facts and had our #MUBB statisticians tear him a new one.
To be fair, at some point him dying on that hill definitely turned from "he legit believed what he was saying" to "let me see what I can continue to say to rile up these nerds". And the nerds took the bait hook line and sinker.
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Titus and Tate talked about how annoying Marquette fans are on their podcast on Friday as well. We are *that* fanbase. Sad.
Rob Dauster said the same thing over the summer. Honestly though I haven't seen a lot of interactions from MU fans with national personalities that is crazy or out of bounds (we reserve that for blue on blue engagements I guess). I've found a lot of the sports media types like to talk a big game but when MU folks come at them with info/data they fold
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Rob Dauster said the same thing over the summer. Honestly though I haven't seen a lot of interactions from MU fans with national personalities that is crazy or out of bounds (we reserve that for blue on blue engagements I guess). I've found a lot of the sports media types like to talk a big game but when MU folks come at them with info/data they fold
Yep. All about the views/listens.
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We're a great fanbase, nice and calm and rational ... and I'll break the effen neck of anybody who disagrees.
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Titus decided to die on a hill that was not based on any facts and had our #MUBB statisticians tear him a new one.
People who don't like numbers get really defensive when presented with numbers, even in a calm and rational way.
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Are we supposed to care about Titus and Tate, and their tiny-ass audience?
I don't necessarily care about their opinions, but it's frustrating that the only discussion on Howard for POY races is to be brushed aside like he's not a serious candidate. The Powell over Howard argument, is especially irritating.
The most they've talked about Marquette all year is the discussion of Titus's argument with Brew and other fans.
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I don't necessarily care about their opinions, but it's frustrating that the only discussion on Howard for POY races is to be brushed aside like he's not a serious candidate. The Powell over Howard argument, is especially irritating.
The most they've talked about Marquette all year is the discussion of Titus's argument with Brew and other fans.
I'm good with that. Even if it's dismissive initially, if they are talking about Howard and NPOY in the same sentence, it will get the voters that listen to investigate the case. I was pleased to see one of the AP voters start following me on Twitter today. Only brings the grand total to 2 (Ben Steele) but I am going to try to put this on their timelines.
I've been making a point to put a TL;DR (too long, didn't read) section at the bottom of each article and plan to create a full TL;DR version that sums up all the posts once I'm done. If I can get that in front of some of the voters eyes, I think there's a shot at actually making the case.
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Still nobody has said who Titus and Tate are?
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+1 Thank you ! ! ! 8-)
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Still nobody has said who Titus and Tate are?
Mark Titus played for OSU and basically never got in, but had a social media following with ClubTrillion blog. I think he was a walk on. He ripped on Crean which made Titus a big hit for some here. He later changed his tune.
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Mark Titus played for OSU and basically never got in, but had a social media following with ClubTrillion blog. I think he was a walk on. He ripped on Crean which made Titus a big hit for some here. He later changed his tune.
Yea, he’s only known here because of bashing Crean ::) He makes fun of everyone.
I believe Titus and Tate were on the Ringer and got a decent following there. His Club Trillion blog was big when he played. He also wrote a book that I enjoyed.
I’ve always chuckled at his characterization of the Badgers as the Wisconsin Buzzcuts.
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So where did they say something anti Howard and got called out
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Yea, he’s only known here because of bashing Crean ::) He makes fun of everyone.
I believe Titus and Tate were on the Ringer and got a decent following there. His Club Trillion blog was big when he played. He also wrote a book that I enjoyed.
I’ve always chuckled at his characterization of the Badgers as the Wisconsin Buzzcuts.
Probably why I said “some” here. I realize his schtick of making fun of many and I am not wrong in why he is popular with SOME here.
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Still nobody has said who Titus and Tate are?
At this point, one of the bigger college basketball podcasts, up there with the CBS Eye on College Basketball (Parrish & Norlander), NBC Sports College Basketball Podcast (Dauster & now apparently Bobby Reagan), Three Man Weave, and Scrambled Eggs.
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At this point, one of the bigger college basketball podcasts, up there with the CBS Eye on College Basketball (Parrish & Norlander), NBC Sports College Basketball Podcast (Dauster & now apparently Bobby Reagan), Three Man Weave, and Scrambled Eggs.
Wow. The fifth largest podcast on college basketball. Clearly very influential people with a broad reach. However will the Marquette fan base recover from such a stinging statement?
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Here is a list of college basketball podcasts.
https://player.fm/podcasts/College-Basketball
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Brew, do you have a link(s) to the debate between you and them?
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I scrolled for at least 10 minutes and still didn't see Phil and Joe. Guess you boys can still go grocery shopping without being inundated by autograph seekers! ;D
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Well said.
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Yea, he’s only known here because of bashing Crean ::) He makes fun of everyone.
I believe Titus and Tate were on the Ringer and got a decent following there. His Club Trillion blog was big when he played. He also wrote a book that I enjoyed.
I’ve always chuckled at his characterization of the Badgers as the Wisconsin Buzzcuts.
His book had me feeling like a fool trying to fight laughing out loud while sitting on the train. A great read. His Club Trillion blog was great when he was at OSU. He became somewhat of a cult hero among other Big Ten team's student sections. For those that don't know, Club Trillion stands for his version of the ideal stat line for a walk-on; one minute played without registering a stat of any kind. That would mean you didn't screw up and didn't do anything positive that would have the crowd going crazy like you're a circus act. Pretty funny.
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Wow. The fifth largest podcast on college basketball. Clearly very influential people with a broad reach. However will the Marquette fan base recover from such a stinging statement?
They had a pretty big following when they were with the Ringer, and Titus still has a fanbase coming from his Grantland days. Since they left the Ringer to go out on their own, they've dropped off a little bit and even when through a period without producing content this season. Titus is a pretty big name, but Tate isn't nearly as well known.
I like these guys a lot. They know their stuff, and their pods are usually pretty fun, even if they are overly focused on Big Ten and ACC basketball. They usually like underdog types, and they've been pretty complimentary of Markus in the past. I didn't hear the pod or see the tweets, but I'm surprised to hear they had anything negative to say about MU or Howard. Now, if it's just them complaining that a guy on twitter was bugging them, that's a little different.
Edit: I listened to the podcast now, and Titus just said there were some MU fans arguing with him on Twitter. Not much else there. In the words of Mr. Wonderful, it was a big ol' nothing-burger.
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Rob Dauster said the same thing over the summer. Honestly though I haven't seen a lot of interactions from MU fans with national personalities that is crazy or out of bounds (we reserve that for blue on blue engagements I guess). I've found a lot of the sports media types like to talk a big game but when MU folks come at them with info/data they fold
I would assume most of these guys have a fact or two given to them by some intern that has to find interesting data points for a couple hundred players and dozens of teams each month. They just don't have the time to do a ton of in-depth research for all the teams they cover. Correcting an obvious mistake is one thing, but bickering over a talking point that doesn't really matter can come across as whiny. (then again, what else is Twitter for if not bickering?)
It's not fair to expect these guys to be perfect. Can you imagine how many times they must have to deal with nitpicking from fans? And what does it even mean that national media types "talk a big game?" Of course they're never going to know as much as the guys who spend countless hours reading about a specific team or conference. It's impossible for them to do that for every game they cover or every team they mention. Do you expect them to caveat every stat they cite?
I know this kind of stuff really rile some people up, but I try to give a lot of these guys the benefit of the doubt. They're usually not trying to mislead anyone or paint a coach or player in a bad light. They have a lot of ground to cover, and it's hard to get 100% of it right.
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Brew, do you have a link(s) to the debate between you and them?
Here's the thread, I was a small part of it: https://twitter.com/nolanjon/status/1224779434508668929?s=21
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I didn't hear the pod or see the tweets, but I'm surprised to hear they had anything negative to say about MU or Howard. Now, if it's just them complaining that a guy on twitter was bugging them, that's a little different.
You need the POD before to hear the origin, and it was actually Tate that made the comment. Essentially what started it was this:
-There are no clearly dominant runaway POY candidates this year.
-So no one player is garnering all the attention.
-If Carsen Edwards was playing this year, he would be a lock POY and all anyone talked about.
-MUBB fans then tried to explain to Titus that Howard is essentially having a better year this year than Carsen last year, so we isn't he getting that love. Then Mark trotted out the same lame crap, in back and forth tweets with Brew (IIRC), we've been hearing all year. With the cherry on top that Howard isn't even Big East POY.