Pro-Jos V. No-Jos

[Small Orange Soda]

If he can continue to reel in recruits like Ellenson, Howard, Hauser, Torrence, & Garcia, he may not have to. If you can develop a roster that is among the most talented in the country, underachieving can still mean good results, and even only occasionally meeting expectations can be a season for the ages.

I don't disagree with that.  I have much more confidence in Wojo reeling in talented players than I do in him improving his coaching.  If you can't make a team better than the sum of its parts, then upgrade the parts.

My only concern is that the one season where he had a roster of top talent he failed to manage egos and the final month was a disaster.  Hopefully he's learned from that.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't disagree with that.  I have much more confidence in Wojo reeling in talented players than I do in him improving his coaching.  If you can't make a team better than the sum of its parts, then upgrade the parts.

My only concern is that the one season where he had a roster of top talent he failed to manage egos and the final month was a disaster.  Hopefully he's learned from that.

I think he'll learn and also we won't be seeing brothers again

[Dr. Blackheart]

Do you really think MU fans are harder on coaches than most fans are on their team's coach?

To me, MU fans seem to be pretty forgiving to coaches while they're here. I think college fans in general tend to be pretty forgiving when compared to pro sports. And basketball fans tend to be more forgiving than football fans. And MU basketball doesn't seem to be an exception to that in my experience.

This. I always get a laugh on here after a win or loss and posters are critical and bloviate in numerous posts (myself included). Then, turn on Wojo's pressers and he says the same things. Crean and Buzz used to deflect all the time with coach speak or oh goshisms which drove me crazy over time. Wojo is pretty darn honest and straightforward, which gives me confidence actually, despite being so vanilla.

[Cheeks]

I don't disagree with that.  I have much more confidence in Wojo reeling in talented players than I do in him improving his coaching.  If you can't make a team better than the sum of its parts, then upgrade the parts.

My only concern is that the one season where he had a roster of top talent he failed to manage egos and the final month was a disaster.  Hopefully he's learned from that.

And sometimes no matter who you are, those egos cannot be managed.  You do accept this, or is it always on the coach?  He can learn all day long, but some people simply don't want to be part of certain organizations, marriages, teams, etc and they leave....regardless of what is done to try and save it.  In other words, sometimes nothing can be done.  I realize the need for a scapegoat by some, but there are situations where it doesn't matter who is trying to hold things together.

[Cheeks]

Do you really think MU fans are harder on coaches than most fans are on their team's coach?

To me, MU fans seem to be pretty forgiving to coaches while they're here. I think college fans in general tend to be pretty forgiving when compared to pro sports. And basketball fans tend to be more forgiving than football fans. And MU basketball doesn't seem to be an exception to that in my experience.

Yes.   I've seen some fan cohorts that worship the ground of their coach and he/she can do NOTHING wrong.  I find that equally wrong, but yes some fan bases react much differently.

Look, I worked in MU's athletic department for 5 years, at Indiana's for a year.  I've been around college athletics since then for the last 20 years in various capacities.  I am fortunate to have dealt with AD's, Commissioners of conferences, coaches, etc over the years.  We get to talk.  And yes, some of these guys will tell you how ridiculously unhinged some fan bases are and are more than happy to consider something else.  Some coaches, of course, play the conservative card and don't open up at all.  In the end, they are human and looking for affirmation like most humans do...we can deny this or say "it's part of the job" all you wish.  John Calipari told me once that fans think head coaches are bullet proof...they're not...they're emotional like any other human being.  Mike Deane, Tom Crean and I used to talk about the fans all the time.  Mostly from the perspective of what can we do to get them together, what are the things that unify everyone, but they spoke of the frustration, too, in having to deal with it.  AT a place like MU, it is easier to just get out and take those lumps elsewhere. 

Quite frankly, it was the main reason I got out of college athletics and went a different direction in sports.  So many factions, so many politics and a lot of people with emotional and financial leverage to make life not worth it as an Athletics Administrator or coach.  Boosters like to throw their weight around, tell you how what they did in their business should be done in an Athletic Department as if one simply cuts and pastes. 

[Small Orange Soda]

And sometimes no matter who you are, those egos cannot be managed.  You do accept this, or is it always on the coach?  He can learn all day long, but some people simply don't want to be part of certain organizations, marriages, teams, etc and they leave....regardless of what is done to try and save it.  In other words, sometimes nothing can be done.  I realize the need for a scapegoat by some, but there are situations where it doesn't matter who is trying to hold things together.

I feel comfortable in my stance.  Wojo screwed up.

[Cheeks]

I feel comfortable in my stance.  Wojo screwed up.

I feel comfortable in mine.  Joey never wanted to be at MU in the first place and he essentially admitted that in his interview two months ago at MSU.  MU was not the school he was looking for, not the environment, etc....never a good fit.  It's a shame we lost Sam out of it, but Joey is where he wanted to be all along and his own words and body language seal that for me. 

[Small Orange Soda]

I feel comfortable in mine.  Joey never wanted to be at MU in the first place and he essentially admitted that in his interview two months ago at MSU.  MU was not the school he was looking for, not the environment, etc....never a good fit.  It's a shame we lost Sam out of it, but Joey is where he wanted to be all along and his own words and body language seal that for me.

Sam leaving is on Wojo poorly managing the situation.

[Silkk the Shaka]

False.  I even said he should be coach of the year endlessly.  I can provide you with 100's of examples, but of course you would ignore them as usual.  Six years...totally false.  Did I bash him a lot...yup.  For some things that were not basketball related....absolutely.

Guess what I NEVER did.  Search it until your hearts content.  NOT ONE TIME did I say he should be fired. NOT ONE DAMN TIME.

Fragile

[tower912]

Sam leaving is choosing blood over team.

[Nukem2]

Sam leaving is choosing blood over team.

Yup. 

[WhoaJoe2020]

I don't disagree with that.  I have much more confidence in Wojo reeling in talented players than I do in him improving his coaching.  If you can't make a team better than the sum of its parts, then upgrade the parts.

My only concern is that the one season where he had a roster of top talent he failed to manage egos and the final month was a disaster.  Hopefully he's learned from that.

I know you don't want to here it but I'll say it anyway..... The whole ego management factor has been blown waaaaay out of proportion. Sams hip was shot, Markus was beat the eff up, Joey ran out of gas, and Gregs thumb injury meant we didn't have a serviceable second ball handler. Yes, Wojo whiffed on Cartoony. Those factors had a far greater impact on the late season meltdown than Wojos ignorance of child psychology......
IMHO of course.

[Cheeks]

Fragile

Soft as vanilla ice cream

[Cheeks]

Sam leaving is on Wojo poorly managing the situation.

Do you come from a family.....family blood and bond often trumps all....I get it feeds into your narrative and agenda conclusion but doesn't make it so.

[Lennys Tap]

Do you really think MU fans are harder on coaches than most fans are on their team's coach?

To me, MU fans seem to be pretty forgiving to coaches while they're here. I think college fans in general tend to be pretty forgiving when compared to pro sports. And basketball fans tend to be more forgiving than football fans. And MU basketball doesn't seem to be an exception to that in my experience.

+1 The MU fan base is no tougher than any fan base that gives a sh!t. So, tougher than Grambling St., sure, and tougher than DePaul. Big deal.

[muguru]

If he can continue to reel in recruits like Ellenson, Howard, Hauser, Torrence, & Garcia, he may not have to. If you can develop a roster that is among the most talented in the country, underachieving can still mean good results, and even only occasionally meeting expectations can be a season for the ages.

This is 1000% spot on Brew..this has always been my theory/philosophy. Get enough REALLY good players to the point where you can just essentially roll the ball out and go play and it can hide some of your coaching warts, this is the way it should go. I'm 1000% fine with Wojo as Coach if he can keep his recruiting momentum going(and even raise it more) to the point where he doesn't even really need to Coach that much. Just take his five and beat your 5 anytime, anywhere. This is why he has gotten a bit of a reprieve from me, landing Garcia was absolutely HUGE as far as how I view him and how long my leash is. That's the kind of talent I expected him to reel in fairly regularly. Now if he lands Mane as well...even more leash from me.

[Small Orange Soda]

Do you come from a family.....family blood and bond often trumps all....I get it feeds into your narrative and agenda conclusion but doesn't make it so.

So what exactly did the letter say?  "I wish we had a football team?"

The whole thing was a case of mismanaged egos due to there being one ball and thirteen guys.  It's a problem every coach has to manage, and Wojo didn't.

And your narrative and agenda is to excuse every criticism of Wojo.  If it's not Buzz and the administration, it's bad matchups and crapshoots.  Let's add 'it was an impossible situation Wojo had no responsibility for creating' to the ProJo list then.

[Pakuni]

The whole thing was a case of mismanaged egos due to there being one ball and thirteen guys.  It's a problem every coach has to manage, and Wojo didn't.

Crazy thought, but just stick with me for a moment ... but what if there were no one to blame for the Hausers' decision transfer, and it simply came down to conflicting agendas that couldn't be resolved?

I know, I know ... it's not nearly as fun as pointing fingers, casting villains and picking sides, but maybe?

[Small Orange Soda]

Crazy thought, but just stick with me for a moment ... but what if there were no one to blame for the Hausers' decision transfer, and it simply came down to conflicting agendas that couldn't be resolved?

I know, I know ... it's not nearly as fun as pointing fingers, casting villains and picking sides, but maybe?

Crazy thought: the guy in charge ultimately bears responsibility.

[Pakuni]

Crazy thought: the guy in charge ultimately bears responsibility.

Not really. Adults have agency.

[Small Orange Soda]

Not really. Adults have agency.

I doubt that flew on his job performance review.

[Pakuni]

I doubt that flew on his job performance review.

I'm sure you would know.

[Small Orange Soda]

I'm sure you would know.

It's a crazy thought for sure.

[Cheeks]

So what exactly did the letter say?  "I wish we had a football team?"

The whole thing was a case of mismanaged egos due to there being one ball and thirteen guys.  It's a problem every coach has to manage, and Wojo didn't.

And your narrative and agenda is to excuse every criticism of Wojo.  If it's not Buzz and the administration, it's bad matchups and crapshoots.  Let's add 'it was an impossible situation Wojo had no responsibility for creating' to the ProJo list then.

I'm not talking about a letter....feel free to watch him in his own words describe what he wants, his comfort level, etc. 

I don't excuse every criticism of Wojo.  From the very first notion that we hired him (go back and read it) my biggest worry was he had great athletes at Duke, would he be able to coach up kids that don't come in already great.  I've said here on a number of occasions that he sticks too long, at times, with a philosophy that isn't working in a game...but that is purely my opinion in not spending countless hours with a team, knowing what they are capable of. 

I have also said there is plenty of blame to go around with the Hausers...they are gone.  From what I have heard, from my contacts still there....really not a damn thing he or MU could do about it.  Sometimes we can wish it so, doesn't make it so.  Wojo, as the head coach, is going to have a role in developing opinions.  That's a fact of life.  Markus, coming back, had a role.  The Hausers with their own ambitions, had a role.  They were not going to be aligned.

THERE WAS NO SITUATION IN THE END THAT THE ENTIRE TEAM STAYS TOGETHER. PERIOD.  NONE.

[Small Orange Soda]

I'm not talking about a letter....feel free to watch him in his own words describe what he wants, his comfort level, etc. 

I don't excuse every criticism of Wojo.  From the very first notion that we hired him (go back and read it) my biggest worry was he had great athletes at Duke, would he be able to coach up kids that don't come in already great.  I've said here on a number of occasions that he sticks too long, at times, with a philosophy that isn't working in a game...but that is purely my opinion in not spending countless hours with a team, knowing what they are capable of. 

I have also said there is plenty of blame to go around with the Hausers...they are gone.  From what I have heard, from my contacts still there....really not a damn thing he or MU could do about it.  Sometimes we can wish it so, doesn't make it so.  Wojo, as the head coach, is going to have a role in developing opinions.  That's a fact of life.  Markus, coming back, had a role.  The Hausers with their own ambitions, had a role.  They were not going to be aligned.

THERE WAS NO SITUATION IN THE END THAT THE ENTIRE TEAM STAYS TOGETHER. PERIOD.  NONE.

I'm talking about the letter though.  Do you think it said "I'd be more comfortable at a big state school," or that it took issue with Wojo's coaching instead?

I agree with you that the entire team wasn't staying together.  That's on Wojo.