What are you watching in 2020 (or re-watching)???

[shoothoops]

So, you believe Rock told that joke intending to provoke a negative (violent?) response from Will Smith.
Huh. Personally, I think he was just going for laughs.
How has every Comedy Central Roast not devolved into a royal rumble?

He wasn't trying to get a laugh from Will Smith or his wife, which is to whom/about whom he said it.

He wasn't at a Comedy Roast. He was at the Oscars because his movie was nominated for best picture. And he was nominated for best actor. And again, not all words are and jokes are the same. Specifics matter.

[Pakuni]

One has an expectation of mean spirited jokes being the entire point.  It's a bad analogy.

Mean-spirited jokes aren't expected at awards shows, says person who's never watched an awards show.
What you've guys have done has set up a world where violence is a natural consequence of a comedian telling a joke that hurts the wrong person's feelings. That's bullsh*t. What Smith did last night was an aberration.

[Pakuni]

He wasn't trying to get a laugh from Will Smith or his wife, which is to whom/about whom he said it.

Maybe he was. Some people have a sense of humor about themselves, even their maladies.
But who cares? Must every joke appeal to every person in an audience, lest the comedian face the "consequence" of violence?

[Uncle Rico]

Team Chris Rock

[shoothoops]

Maybe he was. Some people have a sense of humor about themselves, even their maladies.
But who cares? Must every joke appeal to every person in an audience, lest the comedian face the "consequence" of violence?

Again, I have never condoned or justified violence in this discussion.

But someone would have to be pretty naive, sheltered, obtuse etc.. to not think there might be words you 'd initiate to someone that would result in a physical altercation.

You seem to be saying that anyone can say anything unlimited, anywhere, any time, without the expectation of a confrontation, even physical. Obviously in life that isn't true.

And again, any person that engages in any at fault physical behavior will also face consequences their actions too.

[Jockey]

Mean-spirited jokes aren't expected at awards shows, says person who's never watched an awards show.
What you've guys have done has set up a world where violence is a natural consequence of a comedian telling a joke that hurts the wrong person's feelings. That's bullsh*t. What Smith did last night was an aberration.

I agree with all of this. The joke was just standard Awards show fare. If you want some really biting stuff, listen to Ricky Gervais when he was host. Lots of people staring daggers at him - not one got up and slapped him like a little girl.

Rock has a new tour starting soon, so I'm not convinced the whole thing wasn't just a bit.

[Pakuni]

Again, I have never condoned or justified violence in this discussion.

But someone would have to be pretty naive, sheltered, obtuse etc.. to not think there might be words you 'd initiate to someone that would result in a physical altercation.

You seem to be saying that anyone can say anything unlimited, anywhere, any time, without the expectation of a confrontation, even physical. obviously in life that isn't true.

And again, any person that engages in any at fault physical behavior will also face consequences their actions too.

That obviously is not what I'm saying.
But a comedian, in a comedic setting, should be able to tell a joke - even a bad or offensive joke - without threat of physical assault. And while you keep saying you aren't justifying it, by insisting assault is a consequence of a bad joke, that's exactly what you're doing.

After engaging in at fault physical behavior, Will Smith won an award, received two standing ovations and danced the night away. Such hefty consequences.

[shoothoops]

That obviously is not what I'm saying.
But a comedian, in a comedic setting, should be able to tell a joke - even a bad or offensive joke - without threat of physical assault. And while you keep saying you aren't justifying it, by insisting assault is a consequence of a bad joke, that's exactly what you're doing.

After engaging in at fault physical behavior, Will Smith won an award, received two standing ovations and danced the night away. Such hefty consequences.

You have brought up many different examples. And each is unique.

Coming back to the Oscars, the reason for being there was his movie and its award nominations. He wasn't there for the Will Smith Comedy Roast. So if Chris Rock wants to take a chance and go there, he has to know their might be consequences to his specific words.

In this example, you didn't like that Will Smith wasn't held more accountable for his actions too. I believe that is more of your issue here. That's different.

That's reality. That's life. If you are going to bully someone else with words or actions, under the idea of poor humor, sometimes there are unfortunate consequences. I think we have all seen that all too often.

As I said before, if Chris Rock went after Will Smith by himself instead of his wife's condition, or anything to do with her, he probably doesn't go up there. 

[Pakuni]

Coming back to the Oscars, the reason for being there was his movie and its award nominations. He wasn't there for the Will Smith Comedy Roast. So if Chris Rock wants to take a chance and go there, he has to know their might be consequences to his specific words.

In this example, you didn't like that Will Smith wasn't held more accountable for his actions too. I believe that is more of your issue here. That's different.

I'll just drop it after this, but you're wrong about two things here.
1. Stars routinely get roasted at awards shows. Is this the first Oscars you've seen? Or Golden Globes? Or even the ESPYs? There is nothing unusual or shocking or surprising about Chris Rock telling a joke targeting a celebrity audience member. It wasn't even the first time a nominee had been roasted during the show (see: Amy Schumer's monologue, in which she implied an incestuous relationship between the Gyllenhaals and called DiCaprio a cradle robber ... neither of which led to her being slapped).
2. I'm not at all upset about whatever consequences Smith faces or doesn't face. I'm just befuddled that some people are trying to normalize his behavior.

[JWags85]

That's reality. That's life. If you are going to bully someone else with words or actions, under the idea of poor humor, sometimes there are unfortunate consequences. I think we have all seen that all too often.

As I said before, if Chris Rock went after Will Smith by himself instead of his wife's condition, or anything to do with her, he probably doesn't go up there.

Bullying? BULLYING?! He made A joke.  He didn't sit up there and ridicule the Smith family for 15 minutes.  Talk about a stretch.

And poor humor...that pretty much the entire crowd (including Will himself) laughed and smirked at. There was no uncomfortable murmurs like when Gervais hosted, or during earlier Schumer jokes like Pakuni mentioned.

If Will doesn't go up there, the joke barely gets a mention that day, much less the next, and nobody is horrified that he "went after her condition" cause he didn't.

I guess I missed where the Oscars is a stuffy dignified awards banquet from Victorian era England

[shoothoops]

I'll just drop it after this, but you're wrong about two things here.
1. Stars routinely get roasted at awards shows. Is this the first Oscars you've seen? Or Golden Globes? Or even the ESPYs? There is nothing unusual or shocking or surprising about Chris Rock telling a joke targeting a celebrity audience member. It wasn't even the first time a nominee had been roasted during the show (see: Amy Schumer's monologue, in which she implied an incestuous relationship between the Gyllenhaals and called DiCaprio a cradle robber ... neither of which led to her being slapped).
2. I'm not at all upset about whatever consequences Smith faces or doesn't face. I'm just befuddled that some people are trying to normalize his behavior.

You are trying to normalize that Chris Rock can say those specific words in that specific setting without a possible negative confrontation, even physical.

You are then trying to equate a joke about having young girlfriends to Chris Rock's words. They aren't the same.

I would say that you are trying to normalize that it's okay to say anything to anyone any time without possible consequences or confrontation. Or at the very least you are doing this with comedians.

Normalizing the behavior would be saying that the person who initiates the physical confrontation doesn't deserve consequences too if applicable in a given example. Had Will Smith injured Chris Rock, he would have had to answer for that too. But it doesn't mean it's surprising to me in any way what happened. Perhaps creating leas of these scenarios would result in less physical confrontations.

[shoothoops]

Bullying? BULLYING?! He made A joke.  He didn't sit up there and ridicule the Smith family for 15 minutes.  Talk about a stretch.

And poor humor...that pretty much the entire crowd (including Will himself) laughed and smirked at. There was no uncomfortable murmurs like when Gervais hosted, or during earlier Schumer jokes like Pakuni mentioned.

If Will doesn't go up there, the joke barely gets a mention that day, much less the next, and nobody is horrified that he "went after her condition" cause he didn't.

I guess I missed where the Oscars is a stuffy dignified awards banquet from Victorian era England

George Carlin used to talk about punching up as a comedian instead of punching down. A guy jokes about a Woman's alopecia condition is punching down, not up.

[Pakuni]

George Carlin used to talk about punching up as a comedian instead of punching down. A guy jokes about a Woman's alopecia condition is punching down, not up.

You sucked me back in, because ...that wasn't the joke.

[shoothoops]

You sucked me back in, because ...that wasn't the joke.

He made a poor taste joke about someone's physical appearance. That someone has a condition that contributes to that appearance. I am not willing to normalize a man making fun of a Woman's physical appearance.

[Babybluejeans]

Yea...the idea that a throwaway GI Jane/alopecia joke could foreseeably provoke violence at an awards show? No. Move on, guy.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There are definitely possible consequences for telling a joke like that. But they should be reasonable consequences. What happened was not reasonable

[rocket surgeon]

Bullying? BULLYING?! He made A joke.  He didn't sit up there and ridicule the Smith family for 15 minutes.  Talk about a stretch.

And poor humor...that pretty much the entire crowd (including Will himself) laughed and smirked at. There was no uncomfortable murmurs like when Gervais hosted, or during earlier Schumer jokes like Pakuni mentioned.

If Will doesn't go up there, the joke barely gets a mention that day, much less the next, and nobody is horrified that he "went after her condition" cause he didn't.

I guess I missed where the Oscars is a stuffy dignified awards banquet from Victorian era England

  i also heard that rock was genuinely unaware of jada's alopecia

[rocket surgeon]

speaking of "what are you watching"  "gotham" on netflix and jada is fantastic as the character fish

[CreightonWarrior]

Ricky Gervais' monologues were the absolute best.

[cheebs09]

There are definitely possible consequences for telling a joke like that. But they should be reasonable consequences. What happened was not reasonable

This. Smith could have pulled Rock aside after the show and said that wasn't acceptable. He could have issued a statement and promoted alopecia research. Heck, he could have made a dig at him in his acceptance speech.

The joke can be too far and not be an invitation to violence.

[StillAWarrior]

But it doesn't mean it's surprising to me in any way what happened.

Seriously? This wasn't surprising to you at all? This completely unprecedented occurrence where a celebrity went on stage at a televised awards show and hit a comedian didn't surprise you? I don't believe you. The reason everyone is talking about this today is that it is very surprising. You might be the only person on the planet that wasn't surprised.

[Jockey]

Bullying? BULLYING?! He made A joke.  He didn't sit up there and ridicule the Smith family for 15 minutes.  Talk about a stretch.

And poor humor...that pretty much the entire crowd (including Will himself) laughed and smirked at. There was no uncomfortable murmurs like when Gervais hosted, or during earlier Schumer jokes like Pakuni mentioned.

If Will doesn't go up there, the joke barely gets a mention that day, much less the next, and nobody is horrified that he "went after her condition" cause he didn't.

I guess I missed where the Oscars is a stuffy dignified awards banquet from Victorian era England

I agree with every statement in your post. At the rate we're going, comedians will be banned in 10 more years.

[lawdog77]

I agree with every statement in your post. At the rate we're going, comedians will be banned in 10 more years.

And every poster who made fun of Chico's height (or lack thereof).

[Hards Alumni]

Mean-spirited jokes aren't expected at awards shows, says person who's never watched an awards show.
What you've guys have done has set up a world where violence is a natural consequence of a comedian telling a joke that hurts the wrong person's feelings. That's bullsh*t. What Smith did last night was an aberration.

Are you intentionally misreading?  Neither of us condone the violence nor do we think it is acceptable.

[Pakuni]

Are you intentionally misreading?  Neither of us condone the violence nor do we think it is acceptable.

If you think I've suggested you condone violence, then I've worded my posts poorly, or you're misreading them.
I don't believe you or shoot are condoning violence. But I do think when you suggest violence is a natural consequence of telling a joke - even an offensive one - in a comedic setting, then you're normalizing that behavior.
Normalize and condone are not synonyms.