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Author Topic: Jayce Johnson  (Read 5939 times)

Mr. Sand-Knit

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2019, 02:02:07 PM »
I'm on board for Jayce starting to get more minutes, but play Ed over Theo? We must be watching entirely different games. Like I legitimately don't understand how anyone can come to that conclusion by watching the same games I have.

Agree 110%
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muguru

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2019, 02:31:14 PM »
One of my biggest frustrations is that MU can never seem to find a REALLY good offensive big man. How nice would it be to have a guy they could dump it down to and it's almost guaranteed points?? The only two bigs in recent memory that I felt could give you 20/10 on any given night were Davante, and before him Robert Jackson. Two...in 16 years. I appreciate defensive bigs, but man oh man to have a really good offensive big(even if sacrificing some defense) would really make this offense hum.

As far as Jayce goes, this is what he did at Utah. Let's not forget he had top 10 and top 25 offensive and defensive rebounding rates. He is NOT offensively incompetent either. He WILL be the best big going forward. Heck, once they brought him in, I was certain then he was the best big they had.
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I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

BM1090

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2019, 02:33:49 PM »
One of my biggest frustrations is that MU can never seem to find a REALLY good offensive big man. How nice would it be to have a guy they could dump it down to and it's almost guaranteed points?? The only two bigs in recent memory that I felt could give you 20/10 on any given night were Davante, and before him Robert Jackson. Two...in 16 years. I appreciate defensive bigs, but man oh man to have a really good offensive big(even if sacrificing some defense) would really make this offense hum.

As far as Jayce goes, this is what he did at Utah. Let's not forget he had top 10 and top 25 offensive and defensive rebounding rates. He is NOT offensively incompetent either. He WILL be the best big going forward. Heck, once they brought him in, I was certain then he was the best big they had.

Agree on Jayce being the best big if he brings that effort every day. It was really nice to see. Should be a nice opportunity to build his conditioning back up in the 3 game stretch following KSU, and we'll need his size and rebounding @ KSU as well.
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Its DJOver

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2019, 02:43:22 PM »
20/10 guys are extremely rare in all of CBB, not just exclusive to MU.  Also worth noting that while not 20, Henry did average 17/10.  Similar to the complaint that often gets made about Markus, numbers without context can be misleading.

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2019, 02:44:26 PM »
One of my biggest frustrations is that MU can never seem to find a REALLY good offensive big man. How nice would it be to have a guy they could dump it down to and it's almost guaranteed points?? The only two bigs in recent memory that I felt could give you 20/10 on any given night were Davante, and before him Robert Jackson. Two...in 16 years. I appreciate defensive bigs, but man oh man to have a really good offensive big(even if sacrificing some defense) would really make this offense hum.

As far as Jayce goes, this is what he did at Utah. Let's not forget he had top 10 and top 25 offensive and defensive rebounding rates. He is NOT offensively incompetent either. He WILL be the best big going forward. Heck, once they brought him in, I was certain then he was the best big they had.

When you say never, I'm wondering if you missed Davante's career?

Goose

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2019, 02:46:51 PM »
82


My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. He has not changed his game, unless regressing counts, and our D is better. I do not think the play of Theo John is a big part of improved defense.

Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2019, 02:48:54 PM »
82


My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. He has not changed his game, unless regressing counts, and our D is better. I do not think the play of Theo John is a big part of improved defense.

Literally don't think we're watching the same games, this sealed it

brewcity77

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2019, 02:51:31 PM »
82


My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. He has not changed his game, unless regressing counts, and our D is better. I do not think the play of Theo John is a big part of improved defense.

Defense was top-50 last year and second in the league. It wasn't Virginia, but to say it "sucked" is false.

jonny09

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2019, 02:55:07 PM »
When you say never, I'm wondering if you missed Davante's career?

Please don’t tell me you think this guys offense is good.  He physically can’t jump!!   He’s right under the basket and he can’t even dunk. Not to mention the fact he is an awful foul shooter.  This man can never be on the floor late in a close game.  Having him on the floor immediately puts us at 4 offensive threats. 

BM1090

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2019, 02:56:42 PM »
Defense was 45th in the country last year and so far is 36th this year. It was good last year, it's better this year. It's better this year because Joey and Sam are gone and some guys have improved.
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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2019, 03:18:17 PM »
Please don’t tell me you think this guys offense is good.  He physically can’t jump!!   He’s right under the basket and he can’t even dunk. Not to mention the fact he is an awful foul shooter.  This man can never be on the floor late in a close game.  Having him on the floor immediately puts us at 4 offensive threats.

A claim was made that MU never gets good offensive bigs. I then recalled Davante's career, as he was an excellent offensive big, and he played for us for 40% of this decade. I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding Davante Gardner with this response.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2019, 03:42:33 PM »
When you say never, I'm wondering if you missed Davante's career?

I'm guessing you didn't read guru's whole post.  Never was still wrong.  But he mentioned Davante.

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2019, 03:43:22 PM »
Please don’t tell me you think this guys offense is good.  He physically can’t jump!!   He’s right under the basket and he can’t even dunk. Not to mention the fact he is an awful foul shooter.  This man can never be on the floor late in a close game.  Having him on the floor immediately puts us at 4 offensive threats.

Theo and Ed aren't offensive threats either.  Johnson looked like a different player yesterday and if you didn't think so you weren't paying attention.  Obviously too small of a sample size to make any determination going forward yet.  All three bigs need to do a MUCH better job finishing at the rim. 

jonny09

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2019, 04:19:47 PM »
A claim was made that MU never gets good offensive bigs. I then recalled Davante's career, as he was an excellent offensive big, and he played for us for 40% of this decade. I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding Davante Gardner with this response.

Sorry. All I was saying is that Jayce is not skilled offensively.  Nothing about Davante.  My bad.

Stretchdeltsig

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2019, 06:24:12 PM »
The difference between the abilities of Ed Morrow and Theo and those of Jayce Johnson could not have been more clearly illustrated than they were today.  We have two guys that struggle to catch, struggle to not travel, struggle to not get blocked, and dont rebound.  Jayce can get a shot off, creates space, can catch and knows how to rebound.  He is exactly what this team needs at the 5.
I will have to question wojo if he is not starting and playing as many minutes as possible.  Our second best player today.

Agree. It seems that John and Morrow have regressed instead of playing better. It's disappointing to see their fumbling and bumbling. Let the best big man play who gives us the best chance to win.

We R Final Four

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2019, 06:36:06 PM »
Sorry. All I was saying is that Jayce is not skilled offensively.  Nothing about Davante.  My bad.
Jayce has said so himself. He’s a garbage man on both ends of the glass. He gets the rebound and either puts it back or looks for the outlet pass.
His goal is to be a beast on the glass..both ends. Everything else is secondary.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 07:35:06 PM by We R Final Four »

Cheeks

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #66 on: December 02, 2019, 06:54:42 PM »
A claim was made that MU never gets good offensive bigs. I then recalled Davante's career, as he was an excellent offensive big, and he played for us for 40% of this decade. I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding Davante Gardner with this response.

He’s talking about Big Johnson because Jonny hates Big Johnson, called his game putrid.  He watched Big Johnson a lot playing at Utah on the PAC 12 network. 
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real chili 83

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #67 on: December 02, 2019, 06:59:26 PM »
Jayce played great. He’s competing for PT.  This will raise the play of our bigs.

Cheeks

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #68 on: December 02, 2019, 07:02:34 PM »
Jayce played great. He’s competing for PT.  This will raise the play of our bigs.

This.

 All three have something to offer.  Some days they will struggle, and other days they won’t.  Definitely not givi Ng up on any of them as they should all play.  This idea of sitting any of them I don’t get.
”Bob Knight said never to coach brothers, and never coach twins....they will make you crazy.  When one is sad, the other is sad.”

79Warrior

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #69 on: December 02, 2019, 08:00:55 PM »
Theo and Ed aren't offensive threats either.  Johnson looked like a different player yesterday and if you didn't think so you weren't paying attention.  Obviously too small of a sample size to make any determination going forward yet.  All three bigs need to do a MUCH better job finishing at the rim.

I agree. I think JJ is going to have a nice year. Theo and Ed are another story. Zero points is pretty disappointing.

MU82

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #70 on: December 02, 2019, 10:08:31 PM »
82


My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. He has not changed his game, unless regressing counts, and our D is better. I do not think the play of Theo John is a big part of improved defense.

I was busy so I'm just now here to refute your point. Although I don't really have to because a couple of our fellow Scoopers did.

Both the eye test and the stats say that our defense has been pretty darn good since the start of last season and that Theo has been a part of that. He led a P6 conference in blocks, and probably altered twice as many shots as he blocked. There were several games last season that he absolutely dominated on defense.

He is far from a perfect defensive player. He leaves his feet too easily and he fouls too much. But to say that his defense has been bad since the start of last season and that our defense has been bad as a result ... sorry, Goose, but the data suggests the opposite.
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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #71 on: December 02, 2019, 11:32:59 PM »
I'm guessing you didn't read guru's whole post.  Never was still wrong.  But he mentioned Davante.

Haha I did not! I wasn't expecting someone to give an exact example to refute his own point in the next sentence.

Goose

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2019, 01:25:33 AM »
82

I did not say Theo’s D is bad. I said his D play is not a higher level than last year. I think our  D is better this year, but Theo is not a big part of that improvement. More athletic guys are making our D better and they are making life more difficult for opponents.

MU82

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Re: Jayce Johnson
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2019, 08:58:02 AM »
82

I did not say Theo’s D is bad. I said his D play is not a higher level than last year. I think our  D is better this year, but Theo is not a big part of that improvement. More athletic guys are making our D better and they are making life more difficult for opponents.

Goose

One of your points -- I know, because it started with "my point is" was: My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. As other Scoopers have pointed out, statistically that simply is not true about our defense sucking last year.

Otherwise, I believe I misunderstood until now your expanded point about the defense continuing to improve this season even though Theo does not appear to have improved. Thanks for expounding here.

Theo had dominant games last season against Buffalo, Creighton, Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, Butler, etc. Just about every game he was able to stay on the court for 20+ minutes, he helped the defense a lot. I guess I was so hung up on your casual dismissal of his role last season that I didn't pay enough attention to the other point you were trying to make.

Theo is a role player. He unfortunately has not become a reliable offensive player, and he likely never will. But he can continue to be a valuable player, giving the team blocked shots, rebounds, fouls and minutes at a three-headed position. If you disagree, that's A-OK; we all have opinions.

If Jayce ends up earning more minutes than the alternatives, Wojo will play him more minutes. Wojo has proven that over the years, especially with his center position. He had no problem in our last game giving Jayce more minutes than his other alternatives.
"Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary."

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