MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 01, 2019, 02:06:01 PM

Title: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 01, 2019, 02:06:01 PM
The difference between the abilities of Ed Morrow and Theo and those of Jayce Johnson could not have been more clearly illustrated than they were today.  We have two guys that struggle to catch, struggle to not travel, struggle to not get blocked, and dont rebound.  Jayce can get a shot off, creates space, can catch and knows how to rebound.  He is exactly what this team needs at the 5.
I will have to question wojo if he is not starting and playing as many minutes as possible.  Our second best player today.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: manesworld on December 01, 2019, 02:08:36 PM
Sacar was clearly better than Jayce, and I didn’t see Jayce getting many shots off, not do I sang him to. He does know that’s not his role though. Rebound, set good screens, be big on defense, and put the ball back up if you get an offensive rebound at the rim.

Fine with him not starting. He fouls even more than Theo does.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on December 01, 2019, 02:09:06 PM
Jayce looked fantastic today.  First time this season I had been impressed with him, but he looked like an important piece today.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: CTWarrior on December 01, 2019, 02:09:23 PM
The difference between the abilities of Ed Morrow and Theo and those of Jayce Johnson could not have been clearly illustrated than they were today.  We have two guys that struggle to catch, struggle to not travel, struggle to not get blocked, and dont rebound.  Jayce can get a shot off, creates space, can catch and knows how to rebound.  He is exactly what this team needs at the 5.
I will have to question wojo if he is not starting and playing as many minutes as possible.  Our second best player today.
Well, it looked that way today, but not before today.  I hope it is just because he's getting healthier.  If that is the case you may be correct.  Theo just needed to reverse and use the rim as a shield to avoid the shot blocker.  Jayce played very well today.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 01, 2019, 02:09:32 PM
Jayce looks to be getting healthier and more comfortable in his role, just like how Katin turned around towards the end of the non conference season.

Ed has just not been good. Don’t know what’s going on but hopefully he turns it around. Now that being said, his sister who is a junior in high school right now is pretty incredible. Would love to see the MU women’s team recruit her.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: skianth16 on December 01, 2019, 02:12:32 PM
We may not know where Jayce is at physically yet. He might still need some time before he's ready to take on this many minutes every game.

It does seem pretty clear that his fundamentals and basketball IQ are noticeably better than Ed's or Theo's. He does the little things right consistently. And his defense is pretty good too. He's not going to get as many blocks as Theo, but he'll alter enough shots to be effective.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Cheeks on December 01, 2019, 02:12:55 PM
Big Johnson plays with a lot of desire and plays physically.  Theo and Ed don't always do that.  Matchups will dictate when Big Johnson plays bs the others in my opinion.  Big doesn't have the lateral quickness as the others, so there will be times when Big is not playing as much.


Shame that some of our fans thought he was "putrid" and stinks considering he is coming off an injury, especially since some people have seen him play for years on another network.  I like his grit.  He's an average player in my opinion, but played above average today.  There will be games he is going to be an important player for us.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: tower912 on December 01, 2019, 02:16:37 PM
He was the best big today.  And apparently no longer has a minutes restriction.  Is going to contribute this year.  To argue otherwise shows wilful ignorance. 
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: warriorstrack on December 01, 2019, 02:22:15 PM
I’m looking forward to Jayce going forward, he played with heart and a motor, something we will need going forward.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: skianth16 on December 01, 2019, 02:23:25 PM
It's just a one game sample, but one thing I liked from Jayce today was the way he used his fouls. I don't think any baskets were made on his shooting fouls today. Knowing when to foul hard enough to prevent a decent shot is an underappreciated skill in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 01, 2019, 02:31:09 PM
It's just a one game sample, but one thing I liked from Jayce today was the way he used his fouls. I don't think any baskets were made on his shooting fouls today. Knowing when to foul hard enough to prevent a decent shot is an underappreciated skill in my opinion.

Agreed. I'm all aboard the John/Johnson train. Two headed monster at the 5, play whoever is hot that day more minutes.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 01, 2019, 02:33:27 PM
Sacar was clearly better than Jayce, and I didn’t see Jayce getting many shots off, not do I sang him to. He does know that’s not his role though. Rebound, set good screens, be big on defense, and put the ball back up if you get an offensive rebound at the rim.

Fine with him not starting. He fouls even more than Theo does.

For every good play Sacar made he made a Sacar head scratcher.  Marylands last run started on two successive plays where Sacar was the closest on to a loose ball and chose to stand there.  His effort is mercurial and that will never be supported, his decision making is even worse.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Shooter McGavin on December 01, 2019, 02:38:49 PM
Well, it looked that way today, but not before today.  I hope it is just because he's getting healthier.  If that is the case you may be correct.  Theo just needed to reverse and use the rim as a shield to avoid the shot blocker.  Jayce played very well today.

Theo needs to learn to get his shot up quicker like Davante did.  He is a below the rim player who can’t dunk in traffic.  Too easy to block. 
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: skianth16 on December 01, 2019, 02:42:24 PM
Theo needs to learn to get his shot up quicker like Davante did.  He is a below the rim player who can’t dunk in traffic.  Too easy to block.

I noticed that more today then ever before. All 3 shots he had blocked were a foot away but below the rim. When he's in close like that, he's got to go up stronger. I don't get why he's so tentative with the ball in his hands. It's like his athleticism drops by 50% when he's got the ball vs. when he's going after it on D.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Cheeks on December 01, 2019, 02:46:09 PM
I noticed that more today then ever before. All 3 shots he had blocked were a foot away but below the rim. When he's in close like that, he's got to go up stronger. I don't get why he's so tentative with the ball in his hands. It's like his athleticism drops by 50% when he's got the ball vs. when he's going after it on D.

I wish he would put it on the glass.  If they are going to block it, then it's a goaltend.  Feels to me that each time just get it up on the glass.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: MU82 on December 01, 2019, 02:52:01 PM
Big Johnson plays with a lot of desire and plays physically.  Theo and Ed don't always do that.  Matchups will dictate when Big Johnson plays bs the others in my opinion.  Big doesn't have the lateral quickness as the others, so there will be times when Big is not playing as much.


Shame that some of our fans thought he was "putrid" and stinks considering he is coming off an injury, especially since some people have seen him play for years on another network.  I like his grit.  He's an average player in my opinion, but played above average today.  There will be games he is going to be an important player for us.

Although I disagree that neither Theo nor Morrow lack desire, I do agree with the rest of this comment.

Jayce was very good today, and the morons who dismissed him after just a couple of games undoubtedly were the same folks who shat on Katin and Lockett early on.

I was especially encouraged that he came back strong after being kicked in the head. Was worried for a second that he might have been concussed.

Three players excelled for the Warriors today: Bailey, Sacar and Jayce. Good to see going forward.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Johnny B on December 01, 2019, 02:53:24 PM
Yeah on his first shot he caught the ball then took to much time winding up for the dunk and got stuffed. Just to slow and easy to project. A catch and quick layup would be much more effective. And I'm guessing on using effective over affective because idk the difference
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 01, 2019, 02:55:35 PM
Loved the hustle and his willingness to fight for any unsecured ball.  Great to see.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: StillWarriors on December 01, 2019, 03:21:17 PM
I noticed that more today then ever before. All 3 shots he had blocked were a foot away but below the rim. When he's in close like that, he's got to go up stronger. I don't get why he's so tentative with the ball in his hands. It's like his athleticism drops by 50% when he's got the ball vs. when he's going after it on D.

I love Theo, but yesterday's game started the same way. He got blocked at the rim twice. Frustrating watching Theo and Ed turn interior possessions into empty ones repeatedly.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: muhoops1 on December 01, 2019, 03:24:18 PM
Ed struggles with offense.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Nukem2 on December 01, 2019, 03:26:09 PM
I love Theo, but yesterday's game started the same way. He got blocked at the rim twice. Frustrating watching Theo and Ed repeatedly turn interior possessions into empty ones time and time again.
But, many keep calling to feed the post more.  Results have not been rewarding.  Guys need to kick it out rather than forcing a shot.  That’s effective as well.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 01, 2019, 03:31:52 PM
I noticed that more today then ever before. All 3 shots he had blocked were a foot away but below the rim. When he's in close like that, he's got to go up stronger. I don't get why he's so tentative with the ball in his hands. It's like his athleticism drops by 50% when he's got the ball vs. when he's going after it on D.

The dribble to no where except to allow the defender to recover needs to be thrown in the trash
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Markusquette on December 01, 2019, 03:33:05 PM
The dribble to no where except to allow the defender to recover needs to be thrown in the trash

Too many players try to put the ball on the floor and gather under the hoop. Ersan on the Bucks is a great example of rebounding while keeping his hands up to make quicker shots more easily.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Cheeks on December 01, 2019, 03:42:48 PM
Although I disagree that neither Theo nor Morrow lack desire, I do agree with the rest of this comment.

Jayce was very good today, and the morons who dismissed him after just a couple of games undoubtedly were the same folks who shat on Katin and Lockett early on.

I was especially encouraged that he came back strong after being kicked in the head. Was worried for a second that he might have been concussed.

Three players excelled for the Warriors today: Bailey, Sacar and Jayce. Good to see going forward.

You are correct.  My apologies to both of them. Poor choice of words.  Desire isn’t the right word.  Defensively they absorb a lot of contact and are physical.  Offensively, however, they seem to duck contact more than they do defensively.  Or it feels that way.    So it’s not a matter of toughness in my opinion, but for whatever reason they don’t seem to want to get as physical on the offensive end. 
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: skianth16 on December 01, 2019, 03:43:31 PM
Ed struggles with offense.

He's undersized but not quite quick enough to make up for it with athletic moves to the hoop, which has led to some offensive foul issues. Then you add in the turnovers from footwork issues, and you have a pretty rough offensive stretch for Ed to start the year.

I'm hoping he can improve, but some of the things that need to be fixed should have been fixed by now. As a fifth year guy, it may be tough to re-teach some of these things.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: TAMU Garcia on December 01, 2019, 06:13:47 PM
It's just a one game sample, but one thing I liked from Jayce today was the way he used his fouls. I don't think any baskets were made on his shooting fouls today. Knowing when to foul hard enough to prevent a decent shot is an underappreciated skill in my opinion.

Great point. I thought the same thing watching him today.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 01, 2019, 06:49:47 PM
Theo needs to learn to get his shot up quicker like Davante did.  He is a below the rim player who can’t dunk in traffic.  Too easy to block.

Smoove was a near elite offensive post player. Theo isn't even remotely in his class. Getting his shot up quicker (to the extent that he has a shot) might just make him hurry and miss even more.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: We R Final Four on December 01, 2019, 09:02:42 PM
When I saw Jayce in the open practices prior to his injury....he played just like he did today. An absolute beast on both ends of the glass. Very good positioning. Fighting each position.
Hope to see more of JJ and less of Ed.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Elonsmusk on December 01, 2019, 09:08:17 PM
When I saw Jayce in the open practices prior to his injury....he played just like he did today. An absolute beast on both ends of the glass. Very good positioning. Fighting each position.
Hope to see more of JJ and less of Ed.

Did Jayce resemble Brett "The Beast" Roseboro in open practices?  What could have been if the original beast didn't transfer out on Brent "Buzz" Williams.

That aside, Jayce played hard today and was quite effective.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: We R Final Four on December 01, 2019, 09:12:27 PM
.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Shooter McGavin on December 01, 2019, 09:17:18 PM
Smoove was a near elite offensive post player. Theo isn't even remotely in his class. Getting his shot up quicker (to the extent that he has a shot) might just make him hurry and miss even more.

There’s truth in what you are saying.  No easy answers.  Just thought if he didn’t gather to dunk off two feet and instead laid it immediately off the glass he may have had a chance.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: We R Final Four on December 01, 2019, 09:26:13 PM
Did Jayce resemble Brett "The Beast" Roseboro in open practices?  What could have been if the original beast didn't transfer out on Brent "Buzz" Williams.

That aside, Jayce played hard today and was quite effective.
Are you drunk?
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: manesworld on December 01, 2019, 09:37:37 PM
Are you drunk?

No.  He's Ners, the professional Rec Center dunker.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Elonsmusk on December 01, 2019, 10:12:18 PM
Are you drunk?

Yes.  TOTALLY wasted. I'll see what I can do to sober up and never again bring up Brett "The Beast" Roseboro.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: MU82 on December 01, 2019, 10:47:10 PM
No.  He's Ners, the professional Rec Center dunker.

Wait ... Ners dunked? I wish he would have told us!!
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Cheeks on December 01, 2019, 11:24:48 PM
Yes.  TOTALLY wasted. I'll see what I can do to sober up and never again bring up Brett "The Beast" Roseboro.

You still enjoying Texas?  Heading down in February, we should catch a game.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: frozena pizza on December 02, 2019, 09:29:58 AM
Jayce had excellent positioning and timing on both ends.  He is able to get into position wall up on defense to contest without fouling and then anticipate where a rebound will go and control that area.  Offensively he only shoots when he has a positional advantage and uses fakes and his length to avoid getting blocked.  Davante was an absolute master at this (although not nearly as good on defense).  Luke also had very good technique and footwork.

Some of these things are not easily taught but it's so frustrating that Theo and Ed still can't seem to grasp these concepts.  They lean into the body when contesting a shot to commit weak fouls, Ed seems rely on obvious arm hooks in the post, Theo's indecisiveness with the ball creates travels and poor timing to let the defender gain an advantage even when Theo has a superior position.  In theory it's nice that Markus tries to share the ball and get them involved, but honestly we're better off having him create for himself or going into the post just to get the defense to sag enough to get an open shot from the perimeter.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 02, 2019, 12:35:27 PM
Ed pivots and the travels an amazingly high percentage if the time.  He is giving up 7” to Jayce.
Clearly only one game but in that one game Jayce demonstrated abilities that Theo and Ed never have.  Thing i prolly like the most about Jayce is his hands, he envelopes and squeezes the ball with his hands.  Ed and theo bobble n fumble a maddening percentage of the few rebounds they actually get.  Theo looks big and bad, but give me someone who looks like a choir boy and can give us more than 2-3 rebounds a game.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Goose on December 02, 2019, 12:57:47 PM
The kid is an old school rebounder and I like that. While still early in the year, I am afraid that he is going to be a foul machine if he gets more minutes. That said, I would play him more minutes than I would give Ed/Theo combined. He looks like he may be the guy to give MU more chances to be competitive against better competition. The other two big guys do not bring much to the table. I expected little from John, but Ed is disappointment to me.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 02, 2019, 01:00:23 PM
The kid is an old school rebounder and I like that. While still early in the year, I am afraid that he is going to be a foul machine if he gets more minutes. That said, I would play him more minutes than I would give Ed/Theo combined. He looks like he may be the guy to give MU more chances to be competitive against better competition. The other two big guys do not bring much to the table. I expected little from John, but Ed is disappointment to me.

So because Theo isn't a prolific scorer he "doesn't bring much to the table"?
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Goose on December 02, 2019, 01:14:41 PM
EFR

I do not think Theo has a great deal of basketball skills and is a marginal contributor. At this point, I would play Johnson until he got in foul trouble, followed by Ed and then Theo. Lack of scoring is far from top of list of things Theo would need to work on.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2019, 01:17:22 PM
So because Theo isn't a prolific scorer he "doesn't bring much to the table"?

Don't let the fact that he was the leading shot-blocker in the entire conference last year, that his mere presence changed countless shots above and beyond his blocks, that he is on a similar shot-blocking pace this season, and that he averaged 10 reb/40 mins last season fool you. Some Scoopers have deemed him useless, so that's the final word.

Doesn't matter that folks beyotched about our defense for 3+ years and now Theo is part of the reason it's significantly better. He's useless.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Goose on December 02, 2019, 01:23:59 PM
82

He is averaging 3.9 rebounds a game this season and not on pace for 10 reb/40 mins. He averages half as many turnovers as blocked shots and cannot finish a basket within two feet from the hoop against tough competition. As for helping make our D better, give me a break. He is the same player, at best, as last year. What role is he filling this year over last year? Likely, only more minutes on the bench.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 02, 2019, 01:24:36 PM
EFR

I do not think Theo has a great deal of basketball skills and is a marginal contributor. At this point, I would play Johnson until he got in foul trouble, followed by Ed and then Theo. Lack of scoring is far from top of list of things Theo would need to work on.

I'm on board for Jayce starting to get more minutes, but play Ed over Theo? We must be watching entirely different games. Like I legitimately don't understand how anyone can come to that conclusion by watching the same games I have.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 02, 2019, 01:25:23 PM
Don't let the fact that he was the leading shot-blocker in the entire conference last year, that his mere presence changed countless shots above and beyond his blocks, that he is on a similar shot-blocking pace this season, and that he averaged 10 reb/40 mins last season fool you. Some Scoopers have deemed him useless, so that's the final word.

Doesn't matter that folks beyotched about our defense for 3+ years and now Theo is part of the reason it's significantly better. He's useless.

What he said
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: BM1090 on December 02, 2019, 01:32:09 PM
Limited stat, but Theo has the best +/- on the team as well. Ed has the worst.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: brewcity77 on December 02, 2019, 01:37:42 PM
I'm on board for Jayce starting to get more minutes, but play Ed over Theo? We must be watching entirely different games. Like I legitimately don't understand how anyone can come to that conclusion by watching the same games I have.

This. Ed has more turnovers than made field goals on the season. That’s almost unbelievable.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: GoldenEagles32 on December 02, 2019, 01:53:42 PM
One thing i notice with ed when he gets the ball in the post is that he never has good position, he's always too far out, if he got good position he wouldn't have to put the ball on the ground to travel
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2019, 01:56:11 PM
82

He is averaging 3.9 rebounds a game this season and not on pace for 10 reb/40 mins. He averages half as many turnovers as blocked shots and cannot finish a basket within two feet from the hoop against tough competition. As for helping make our D better, give me a break. He is the same player, at best, as last year. What role is he filling this year over last year? Likely, only more minutes on the bench.

Goose

I said, "he averaged 10 reb/40 mins last season." His pace is not as good this season, only 8 reb/40 min, and I didn't claim otherwise.

Every other stat I gave was correct, too, including that he led an entire Power-6 conference in shot-blocking as a sophomore and has the same average so far this year.

He is a poor offensive player. I wish he would have improved at that part of the game. It hurts our offense that he hasn't. And Ed is no better.

But if you don't think having the Big East's leading shot-blocker on the floor is helpful for our defense ... well, to quote a wise man ... give me a break.

As for Jayce, I have said many times that I am encouraged by what he did yesterday. It's nonetheless been interesting to see so many folks who caution against jumping to conclusions based on one or two games are now 100% certain that he is the best big we have. After one 20-minute performance!

I hope that was a sampling of what we'll get from Jayce every game. If so, I agree that he soon will unquestionably be our best big and will deserve the lion's share of the minutes.

Given that Wojo has shown that he's willing to make major moves at the position -- for example, starting Heldt over Luke a couple years back, and then just about never playing Heldt (a kid he obviously loved) the following season -- I have no doubt he would do the same in 2019-20.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 02, 2019, 02:00:12 PM
So because Theo isn't a prolific scorer he "doesn't bring much to the table"?

Apart from blocked shots, which i consider to be fools gold, id say the answer is no.  Bad hands, foul prone, very little offensively, doesnt rebound.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 02, 2019, 02:02:07 PM
I'm on board for Jayce starting to get more minutes, but play Ed over Theo? We must be watching entirely different games. Like I legitimately don't understand how anyone can come to that conclusion by watching the same games I have.

Agree 110%
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: muguru on December 02, 2019, 02:31:14 PM
One of my biggest frustrations is that MU can never seem to find a REALLY good offensive big man. How nice would it be to have a guy they could dump it down to and it's almost guaranteed points?? The only two bigs in recent memory that I felt could give you 20/10 on any given night were Davante, and before him Robert Jackson. Two...in 16 years. I appreciate defensive bigs, but man oh man to have a really good offensive big(even if sacrificing some defense) would really make this offense hum.

As far as Jayce goes, this is what he did at Utah. Let's not forget he had top 10 and top 25 offensive and defensive rebounding rates. He is NOT offensively incompetent either. He WILL be the best big going forward. Heck, once they brought him in, I was certain then he was the best big they had.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: BM1090 on December 02, 2019, 02:33:49 PM
One of my biggest frustrations is that MU can never seem to find a REALLY good offensive big man. How nice would it be to have a guy they could dump it down to and it's almost guaranteed points?? The only two bigs in recent memory that I felt could give you 20/10 on any given night were Davante, and before him Robert Jackson. Two...in 16 years. I appreciate defensive bigs, but man oh man to have a really good offensive big(even if sacrificing some defense) would really make this offense hum.

As far as Jayce goes, this is what he did at Utah. Let's not forget he had top 10 and top 25 offensive and defensive rebounding rates. He is NOT offensively incompetent either. He WILL be the best big going forward. Heck, once they brought him in, I was certain then he was the best big they had.

Agree on Jayce being the best big if he brings that effort every day. It was really nice to see. Should be a nice opportunity to build his conditioning back up in the 3 game stretch following KSU, and we'll need his size and rebounding @ KSU as well.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Its DJOver on December 02, 2019, 02:43:22 PM
20/10 guys are extremely rare in all of CBB, not just exclusive to MU.  Also worth noting that while not 20, Henry did average 17/10.  Similar to the complaint that often gets made about Markus, numbers without context can be misleading.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 02, 2019, 02:44:26 PM
One of my biggest frustrations is that MU can never seem to find a REALLY good offensive big man. How nice would it be to have a guy they could dump it down to and it's almost guaranteed points?? The only two bigs in recent memory that I felt could give you 20/10 on any given night were Davante, and before him Robert Jackson. Two...in 16 years. I appreciate defensive bigs, but man oh man to have a really good offensive big(even if sacrificing some defense) would really make this offense hum.

As far as Jayce goes, this is what he did at Utah. Let's not forget he had top 10 and top 25 offensive and defensive rebounding rates. He is NOT offensively incompetent either. He WILL be the best big going forward. Heck, once they brought him in, I was certain then he was the best big they had.

When you say never, I'm wondering if you missed Davante's career?
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Goose on December 02, 2019, 02:46:51 PM
82


My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. He has not changed his game, unless regressing counts, and our D is better. I do not think the play of Theo John is a big part of improved defense.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 02, 2019, 02:48:54 PM
82


My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. He has not changed his game, unless regressing counts, and our D is better. I do not think the play of Theo John is a big part of improved defense.

Literally don't think we're watching the same games, this sealed it
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: brewcity77 on December 02, 2019, 02:51:31 PM
82


My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. He has not changed his game, unless regressing counts, and our D is better. I do not think the play of Theo John is a big part of improved defense.

Defense was top-50 last year and second in the league. It wasn't Virginia, but to say it "sucked" is false.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: jonny09 on December 02, 2019, 02:55:07 PM
When you say never, I'm wondering if you missed Davante's career?

Please don’t tell me you think this guys offense is good.  He physically can’t jump!!   He’s right under the basket and he can’t even dunk. Not to mention the fact he is an awful foul shooter.  This man can never be on the floor late in a close game.  Having him on the floor immediately puts us at 4 offensive threats. 
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: BM1090 on December 02, 2019, 02:56:42 PM
Defense was 45th in the country last year and so far is 36th this year. It was good last year, it's better this year. It's better this year because Joey and Sam are gone and some guys have improved.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 02, 2019, 03:18:17 PM
Please don’t tell me you think this guys offense is good.  He physically can’t jump!!   He’s right under the basket and he can’t even dunk. Not to mention the fact he is an awful foul shooter.  This man can never be on the floor late in a close game.  Having him on the floor immediately puts us at 4 offensive threats.

A claim was made that MU never gets good offensive bigs. I then recalled Davante's career, as he was an excellent offensive big, and he played for us for 40% of this decade. I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding Davante Gardner with this response.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 02, 2019, 03:42:33 PM
When you say never, I'm wondering if you missed Davante's career?

I'm guessing you didn't read guru's whole post.  Never was still wrong.  But he mentioned Davante.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Vander Blue Man Group on December 02, 2019, 03:43:22 PM
Please don’t tell me you think this guys offense is good.  He physically can’t jump!!   He’s right under the basket and he can’t even dunk. Not to mention the fact he is an awful foul shooter.  This man can never be on the floor late in a close game.  Having him on the floor immediately puts us at 4 offensive threats.

Theo and Ed aren't offensive threats either.  Johnson looked like a different player yesterday and if you didn't think so you weren't paying attention.  Obviously too small of a sample size to make any determination going forward yet.  All three bigs need to do a MUCH better job finishing at the rim. 
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: jonny09 on December 02, 2019, 04:19:47 PM
A claim was made that MU never gets good offensive bigs. I then recalled Davante's career, as he was an excellent offensive big, and he played for us for 40% of this decade. I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding Davante Gardner with this response.

Sorry. All I was saying is that Jayce is not skilled offensively.  Nothing about Davante.  My bad.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Stretchdeltsig on December 02, 2019, 06:24:12 PM
The difference between the abilities of Ed Morrow and Theo and those of Jayce Johnson could not have been more clearly illustrated than they were today.  We have two guys that struggle to catch, struggle to not travel, struggle to not get blocked, and dont rebound.  Jayce can get a shot off, creates space, can catch and knows how to rebound.  He is exactly what this team needs at the 5.
I will have to question wojo if he is not starting and playing as many minutes as possible.  Our second best player today.

Agree. It seems that John and Morrow have regressed instead of playing better. It's disappointing to see their fumbling and bumbling. Let the best big man play who gives us the best chance to win.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: We R Final Four on December 02, 2019, 06:36:06 PM
Sorry. All I was saying is that Jayce is not skilled offensively.  Nothing about Davante.  My bad.
Jayce has said so himself. He’s a garbage man on both ends of the glass. He gets the rebound and either puts it back or looks for the outlet pass.
His goal is to be a beast on the glass..both ends. Everything else is secondary.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Cheeks on December 02, 2019, 06:54:42 PM
A claim was made that MU never gets good offensive bigs. I then recalled Davante's career, as he was an excellent offensive big, and he played for us for 40% of this decade. I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding Davante Gardner with this response.

He’s talking about Big Johnson because Jonny hates Big Johnson, called his game putrid.  He watched Big Johnson a lot playing at Utah on the PAC 12 network. 
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: real chili 83 on December 02, 2019, 06:59:26 PM
Jayce played great. He’s competing for PT.  This will raise the play of our bigs.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Cheeks on December 02, 2019, 07:02:34 PM
Jayce played great. He’s competing for PT.  This will raise the play of our bigs.

This.

 All three have something to offer.  Some days they will struggle, and other days they won’t.  Definitely not givi Ng up on any of them as they should all play.  This idea of sitting any of them I don’t get.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: 79Warrior on December 02, 2019, 08:00:55 PM
Theo and Ed aren't offensive threats either.  Johnson looked like a different player yesterday and if you didn't think so you weren't paying attention.  Obviously too small of a sample size to make any determination going forward yet.  All three bigs need to do a MUCH better job finishing at the rim.

I agree. I think JJ is going to have a nice year. Theo and Ed are another story. Zero points is pretty disappointing.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2019, 10:08:31 PM
82


My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. He has not changed his game, unless regressing counts, and our D is better. I do not think the play of Theo John is a big part of improved defense.

I was busy so I'm just now here to refute your point. Although I don't really have to because a couple of our fellow Scoopers did.

Both the eye test and the stats say that our defense has been pretty darn good since the start of last season and that Theo has been a part of that. He led a P6 conference in blocks, and probably altered twice as many shots as he blocked. There were several games last season that he absolutely dominated on defense.

He is far from a perfect defensive player. He leaves his feet too easily and he fouls too much. But to say that his defense has been bad since the start of last season and that our defense has been bad as a result ... sorry, Goose, but the data suggests the opposite.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on December 02, 2019, 11:32:59 PM
I'm guessing you didn't read guru's whole post.  Never was still wrong.  But he mentioned Davante.

Haha I did not! I wasn't expecting someone to give an exact example to refute his own point in the next sentence.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: Goose on December 03, 2019, 01:25:33 AM
82

I did not say Theo’s D is bad. I said his D play is not a higher level than last year. I think our  D is better this year, but Theo is not a big part of that improvement. More athletic guys are making our D better and they are making life more difficult for opponents.
Title: Re: Jayce Johnson
Post by: MU82 on December 03, 2019, 08:58:02 AM
82

I did not say Theo’s D is bad. I said his D play is not a higher level than last year. I think our  D is better this year, but Theo is not a big part of that improvement. More athletic guys are making our D better and they are making life more difficult for opponents.

Goose

One of your points -- I know, because it started with "my point is" was: My point is Theo was on the court last year and the D sucked. As other Scoopers have pointed out, statistically that simply is not true about our defense sucking last year.

Otherwise, I believe I misunderstood until now your expanded point about the defense continuing to improve this season even though Theo does not appear to have improved. Thanks for expounding here.

Theo had dominant games last season against Buffalo, Creighton, Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, Butler, etc. Just about every game he was able to stay on the court for 20+ minutes, he helped the defense a lot. I guess I was so hung up on your casual dismissal of his role last season that I didn't pay enough attention to the other point you were trying to make.

Theo is a role player. He unfortunately has not become a reliable offensive player, and he likely never will. But he can continue to be a valuable player, giving the team blocked shots, rebounds, fouls and minutes at a three-headed position. If you disagree, that's A-OK; we all have opinions.

If Jayce ends up earning more minutes than the alternatives, Wojo will play him more minutes. Wojo has proven that over the years, especially with his center position. He had no problem in our last game giving Jayce more minutes than his other alternatives.