Dawson

[BCHoopster]

So for the people who have seen Dawson play, how does Wojo use him?  He sure does not look like a post up player?

[tower912]

He doesn't need to be.  One of the 4 out.  Secondary basket defender, probably from the weak side.   

[wadesworld]

Similar to how he used Hank, but hopefully with more help around him.

[Silent Verbal]

Similar to how he used Hank, but hopefully with more help around him.

Henry’s team had five players average double figures.  I’d be surprised if Dawson has that much help consistently next year.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Henry’s team had five players average double figures.  I’d be surprised if Dawson has that much help consistently next year.

Gotta understand what you are looking at. Marquette only ran a 7 man rotation that season with a top 100 tempo. Someone has to put points on the board, doesn't mean that the help is good.

[Lennys Tap]

Similar to how he used Hank, but hopefully with more help around him.

If he's used like Henry I hope Dawson makes more than 28.8% of his 3s.

[Shooter McGavin]

Amen, to that.^^^^

[wadesworld]

If he's used like Henry I hope Dawson makes more than 28.8% of his 3s.

Regardless of how he’s used I hope he makes more than 28.8% of his 3s.

But if he’s only taking 3 three point attempts per game, shooting it at a 28.8% clip won’t be the end of the world.

[Lennys Tap]

Regardless of how he’s used I hope he makes more than 28.8% of his 3s.

But if he’s only taking 3 three point attempts per game, shooting it at a 28.8% clip won’t be the end of the world.

IIRC, 6 players took 70 or more 3s that year. Henry took the second most on the team (102, or 3.2 per game) and shot the lowest % (not close) on the team. It may not be "the end of the world" to have your worst shooter/best rebounder on the perimeter jacking at that rate, but how it makes sense (other than sacrificing team success to showcase Henry) is beyond me.

[Galway Eagle]

IIRC, 6 players took 70 or more 3s that year. Henry took the second most on the team (102, or 3.2 per game) and shot the lowest % (not close) on the team. It may not be "the end of the world" to have your worst shooter/best rebounder on the perimeter jacking at that rate, but how it makes sense (other than sacrificing team success to showcase Henry) is beyond me.

This. I get Henry probably hates MU to side with his brother but man he needs to step back and realize he was giving free reign the likes of which Markus doesn't even get.

[Warrior1969]

Henry had more freedom then Markus??????

[wadesworld]

Anybody who considers 3.2 three point attempts per game as somebody "on the perimeter jacking" doesn't understand how modern basketball works.

The options were Luke sits on the bench while Henry sits in the post so that he can get...14? rebounds instead of 10?  And Luke can get 0 rebounds sitting on the bench.  Or Luke "jacks" perimeter jumpers (at the rate of 3 per game) while Henry gets 14? rebounds per game instead of 10.  Or Henry "jacks" 3 three point attempts per game while getting 10 rebounds per game and Luke works in the post.

I know which one I'd take given the roster.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Henry's problem wasn't that he took 3.2 thee pointers per game.  His problem is that he took 15.7 overall shots per game while having an EFG under .500.  He wasn't efficient.  He shot the ball too often with too many bad shots.  Which is something eerily similar to Markus last year. 

[Lennys Tap]

Anybody who considers 3.2 three point attempts per game as somebody "on the perimeter jacking" doesn't understand how modern basketball works.

You're right, I guess I don't understand "modern basketball", at least your version. If I have a 6'10" guy who is a great rebounder, efficient offensive player from 15' on in, draws fouls, makes free throws but is my worst outside shooter he's not taking the second most 3 point shots for my team.

[Herman Cain]

You're right, I guess I don't understand "modern basketball", at least your version. If I have a 6'10" guy who is a great rebounder, efficient offensive player from 15' on in, draws fouls, makes free throws but is my worst outside shooter he's not taking the second most 3 point shots for my team.

The Quid Pro Quo, was that Henry agreed to a one/two year rental provided MU allowed him to use the team to showcase his potential as a stretch 4. Both sides lived up to the deal. Henry became a first rounder in the NBA and MU got 20 wins so it all worked out.

I think if Henry played a more conventional role for the skills you describe above , he would have been a 22 and 12 type player and we might have won a couple more games.  But that wasn't the deal going in.

Henry led to Markus which has now led to Dawson. Wojo is selling not only playing time, but also ball dominance.  Not a bad recruiting strategy for MU and top level players . We signed Dawson this year and got nosed out at the finish line by UNC for RJ.  We are now in a position to tell Karim, come here work on your passing skills for a year feeding Dawson .

The secret sauce, of course, is taking these players and getting NCAA tournament success. That requires a different set of coaching skills.

[Cheeks]

The Quid Pro Quo, was that Henry agreed to a one/two year rental provided MU allowed him to use the team to showcase his potential as a stretch 4. Both sides lived up to the deal. Henry became a first rounder in the NBA and MU got 20 wins so it all worked out.

I think if Henry played a more conventional role for the skills you describe above , he would have been a 22 and 12 type player and we might have won a couple more games.  But that wasn't the deal going in.

Henry led to Markus which has now led to Dawson. Wojo is selling not only playing time, but also ball dominance.  Not a bad recruiting strategy for MU and top level players . We signed Dawson this year and got nosed out at the finish line by UNC for RJ.  We are now in a position to tell Karim, come here work on your passing skills for a year feeding Dawson .

The secret sauce, of course, is taking these players and getting NCAA tournament success. That requires a different set of coaching skills.

Careful, latin got another thread shut down. Penny Hardaway's Quid Pro Quo to pay for a kid to come play for him in high school knowing full well behind the scenes he was also likely to replace Tubby Smith.  But for some reason the Quid Pro Quo comments got a thread shut down because some people panic and don't understand latin apparently.

[wadesworld]

You're right, I guess I don't understand "modern basketball", at least your version. If I have a 6'10" guy who is a great rebounder, efficient offensive player from 15' on in, draws fouls, makes free throws but is my worst outside shooter he's not taking the second most 3 point shots for my team.

Giannis shot 3 three pointers per game last season at a 25.6% three point clip.  Why would the Bucks want their 7 footer who is a great rebounder, efficient offensive player from 15' on in, draws fouls, makes free throws (at least he did last year), and worst outside shooter jacking up 3 three pointers a game?  (Fine, second worst.  Bonzie Colson played 8 games and had a worse 3 point shooting percentage.)  I mean, the guy must suck.

Wait, he was the MVP.

3 three point attempts per game is not "jacking up bad shots."  It's just not.

[lawdog77]

Henry's problem wasn't that he took 3.2 thee pointers per game.  His problem is that he took 15.7 overall shots per game while having an EFG under .500.  He wasn't efficient.  He shot the ball too often with too many bad shots.  Which is something eerily similar to Markus last year.

Markus efg% was 52% last year.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Markus efg% was 52% last year.

Which isn't great.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Which isn't great.

I beg to differ. Markus' 2020 eFG% Prior to wrist injury + Hauser mutiny: 54.7%

This was excellent / highly efficient for his Shot% (36.7%). Closest 2019 high major comps (eFG% / Shot%):

RJ Barrett: 50.6% / 33%
Jarrett Culver: 50.5% / 32.4%
Ethan Happ: 53% / 31%
Myles Powell: 54.2% / 31.4%

Post wrist injury + Hauser mutiny: 43.2% eFG%

Basically the Hausers were salty that they had a guy shooting at a more efficient clip than 2 lotto picks, a 2nd team AA, and a 1st team all-BE, and they tanked a 23-4 season + left him to twist in the wind for his senior year they were building several years towards.

Eff 'em.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I beg to differ. Markus' 2020 eFG% Prior to wrist injury + Hauser mutiny: 54.7%

This was excellent / highly efficient for his Shot% (36.7%). Closest 2019 high major comps (eFG% / Shot%):

RJ Barrett: 50.6% / 33%
Jarrett Culver: 50.5% / 32.4%
Ethan Happ: 53% / 31%
Myles Powell: 54.2% / 31.4%

Post wrist injury + Hauser mutiny: 43.2% eFG%

Basically the Hausers were salty that they had a guy shooting at a more efficient clip than 2 lotto picks, a 2nd team AA, and a 1st team all-BE, and they tanked a 23-4 season + left him to twist in the wind for his senior year they were building several years towards.

Eff 'em.

This is good context.  Thank you.

[skianth16]

The Quid Pro Quo, was that Henry agreed to a one/two year rental provided MU allowed him to use the team to showcase his potential as a stretch 4. Both sides lived up to the deal. Henry became a first rounder in the NBA and MU got 20 wins so it all worked out.

I think if Henry played a more conventional role for the skills you describe above , he would have been a 22 and 12 type player and we might have won a couple more games.  But that wasn't the deal going in.

Henry led to Markus which has now led to Dawson. Wojo is selling not only playing time, but also ball dominance.  Not a bad recruiting strategy for MU and top level players . We signed Dawson this year and got nosed out at the finish line by UNC for RJ.  We are now in a position to tell Karim, come here work on your passing skills for a year feeding Dawson .

The secret sauce, of course, is taking these players and getting NCAA tournament success. That requires a different set of coaching skills.

So you see Garcia as a one and done? I know he's a highly ranked guy, but I haven't seen much about him as an NBA prospect yet. Is he getting attention from NBA scouts already?

[Litehouse]

So you see Garcia as a one and done? I know he's a highly ranked guy, but I haven't seen much about him as an NBA prospect yet. Is he getting attention from NBA scouts already?

I read that as Mane being one and done.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I read that as Mane being one and done.

Yep

[Lennys Tap]

Giannis shot 3 three pointers per game last season at a 25.6% three point clip.  Why would the Bucks want their 7 footer who is a great rebounder, efficient offensive player from 15' on in, draws fouls, makes free throws (at least he did last year), and worst outside shooter jacking up 3 three pointers a game?  (Fine, second worst.  Bonzie Colson played 8 games and had a worse 3 point shooting percentage.)  I mean, the guy must suck.

Wait, he was the MVP.

3 three point attempts per game is not "jacking up bad shots."  It's just not.

The Bucks shot 3,134 3s last year. Giannis shot 203 of them (2.8 per game). That's 6.5% of the team's 3s

MU shot 571 3s in Henry's year. He shot 104 of them (3.2 per game). That's 18.4% of the team's 3s.

If Henry had shot 6.5% of the team's 3s (like Giannis) he would have shot 37 all season (and other, better shooters would have shot an additional 67).

I think the Bucks had the ratio about right for a poor shooting stretch 4. Ours was almost 3x too high.