Duke, MSU, Marquette

[tower912]

I had the pleasure of sitting in the nosebleed seats at the MSU Duke elite eight game last spring.
      Duke fans around me were mad at K for not working harder to get the ball to Zion.
    Spartan fans despaired when Cassius was out of the game and implored Izzo to put the ball in his hands and let him work.
   A significant portion of MU fans on this board want the ball taken out of Markus's hands as much as plausible.  A cancer.  Should have adapted his game to the departed.

Why do fans of other schools want the ball in the hands of their best players whereas MU fans disparage their all time leading scorer, model citizen, reigning BEPOY, and preseason first team all American?

Do Seton Hall fans want Powell to have the ball in his hands less?

[Johnny B]

Nobody on here is saying he shouldn't have the ball in his hands alot.

[brewcity77]

I think it's a small portion of Scoop that wants this. I do think there are some analytics that support a lower usage, but when Markus is on, he is like no other player in the sport right now. He is a special player and aside from a vocal minority, I believe most of us are appreciating what he is capable of and enjoying the moment.

Much of this likely stems from Wojo and those that never wanted him at the program in the first place. If Markus fails, Wojo fails, and maybe then the anti-Wojo crowd gets their dream of seeing him leave, whether by choice or force. I suspect there is a reasonable correlation between the two.

[Uncle Rico]

Nobody on here is saying he shouldn't have the ball in his hands alot.

That's exactly what some are saying

[fjm]

I am definitely not saying take the ball out of MarKus hands. Dudes a stud. And is amazing. And an amazing human!

Having said that, my concern is, where will the scoring come from when Markus goes 2-10 from 3, and 5-19 total against seton hall in February.

He will have cold nights. And that's OK! We just need people to step up. And I didn't see anything too encouraging during last night. (But it was only 1 game).

[real chili 83]

That's exactly what some are saying

Let's keep it in perspective. It is "some".  That's all.

Someone doesn't win an argument because they scream the loudest.

[tower912]

Nobody on here is saying he shouldn't have the ball in his hands alot.

ROFL.

Or I would if it weren't so sad.    Brew, you are probably right.   It is a small, vocal minority.   

[Uncle Rico]

Let's keep it in perspective. It is "some".  That's all.

Someone doesn't win an argument because they scream the loudest.

Agree, it is a small, loud minority.  Each win will cause a "sure they won, but" and each loss a "I told you".

[muwarrior69]

Our go to guy, yes; but not our only scoring option. Teams will double even triple team him while the rest of the team struggles to score.

[MuMark]

I am definitely not saying take the ball out of MarKus hands. Dudes a stud. And is amazing. And an amazing human!

Having said that, my concern is, where will the scoring come from when Markus goes 2-10 from 3, and 5-19 total against seton hall in February.

He will have cold nights. And that's OK! We just need people to step up. And I didn't see anything too encouraging during last night. (But it was only 1 game).

When your best player has a horrible night and you are playing against good teams you are probably going to lose.......unless your defense can hold down the other team and you can win a rock fight.

Stars have to shine to win big games (usually).......we don't have Nova talent with Brunson, Bridges, Spellman, Donte etc.......or Kentucky or Duke.....etc.....

Markus needs help but if plays horribly we are probably going to lose against quality opponents.......this shouldn't be news.

[Herman Cain]

I had the pleasure of sitting in the nosebleed seats at the MSU Duke elite eight game last spring.
      Duke fans around me were mad at K for not working harder to get the ball to Zion.
    Spartan fans despaired when Cassius was out of the game and implored Izzo to put the ball in his hands and let him work.
   A significant portion of MU fans on this board want the ball taken out of Markus's hands as much as plausible.  A cancer.  Should have adapted his game to the departed.

Why do fans of other schools want the ball in the hands of their best players whereas MU fans disparage their all time leading scorer, model citizen, reigning BEPOY, and preseason first team all American?

Do Seton Hall fans want Powell to have the ball in his hands less?

I am in the camp that wants the ball in Markus hands as much as possible. My theory going into the season, is we would have better chemistry ,  and because of our athleticism ,Markus would get more and cleaner looks . I much prefer Markus shooting the ball than any one else on this team. Hope he has a season for the ages.

[brewcity77]

Our go to guy, yes; but not our only scoring option. Teams will double even triple team him while the rest of the team struggles to score.

If people want to double or triple Markus and leave Koby, Elliott, or Anim wide open on the perimeter, more power to them. We have proven shot-makers. They may not have the dynamism of Markus, but if opponents double or triple off them, they are going to make hay.

[Cheeks]

Nobody on here is saying he shouldn't have the ball in his hands alot.

Some say cancerous

[Johnny B]

Ok by nobody I mean a tiny fraction that should be irrelevant.

[Silent Verbal]

If people want to double or triple Markus and leave Koby, Elliott, or Anim wide open on the perimeter, more power to them. We have proven shot-makers. They may not have the dynamism of Markus, but if opponents double or triple off them, they are going to make hay.

I don't know if I'd call them "proven" shot-makers.  If the guys you mentioned along with Cain and Bailey can all hit 30% or better from beyond the arc this season while not having the Hausers or Rowsey around to distract defenses, I'd call them proven.

[MuMark]

I'm not worried about Elliott or Koby shooting better then 30% from 3...... that's a low bar.....no matter who is on the court with them.

Sacar shot 23% as a Sophmore......and 39% as a junior......he probably won't take a ton of them which is fine.

Bailey and Cain are the 2 unknowns .......Cain hit at a high level as frosh so we know he has it in him.

The bigger question is how many attempts guys other then Markus take...... .it will be interesting to find out.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Based on the book Scorecasting, a superstar usage rate around 30 is ideal to win...but the team also needed two NBA All-Stars to go with it. On the college level, that would be a Big East HM or higher or future NBA players. 2003, MU had Wade, Diener and Novak. 1977 had Butch, Bo, Whitehead with a little Toone. The formula worked for Jordan whose teams started winning when his usage dropped from 38%. Wade's usage was about 34% in his F4 year, maybe because Travis and Steve were young yet.

Nevertheless, when usage is high for one player, you get the "Jordan Rules", the "Wade Rules" by Kansas, and the "Howard Rules" the second time around the Big East last year. It isn't about taking the ball out your AA's hands, it's about creating space in your offense so he and others have room to operate.

Last season, MU had three All BE players. The Hausers either hung on the perimeter or crab dribbled slowly into the paint (predictably) for a slow-developing post up. And Markus was the primary ball handler  (or only as Joe was a dud). The bigs were brought out on the perimeter to wedge for space the three perimeter players but were no threat in the paint. Sacar could occasionally find some dribble drive space in certain match-ups, but he was mostly playing as 2 guard out of position. Opposing teams figured out how clog the offense up. The Hausers transferred to a different system (Swing and PG led B1G style slog). In many ways, MU tried to trey shoot it's way out of trouble. The transition game was non-existent other than three on the run.

Yesterday's issue was not Markus' usage but, other than him, Jamal and Ed, the ridiculously high (>20% plus) turnover rates by the rest of the team. Hard to get higher personal usage when you are turning it over that much. This team's depth and skill set is more balanced. But, the team needs to step up and not rely on your superstar to always have to bail you out.

And that's the rub. Easy to blame the superstar who is trying to win, but it is on the coach and team to step up and find the balance. Having Jayce as a threat in the paint offensively really changes things I believe space wise in the offense. Not having him leads to a rerun.

[Uncle Rico]

Based on the book Scorecasting, a superstar usage rate around 30 is ideal to win...but the team also needed two NBA All-Stars to go with it. On the college level, that would be a Big East HM or higher or future NBA players. 2003, MU had Wade, Diener and Novak. 1977 had Butch, Bo, Whitehead with a little Toone. The formula worked for Jordan whose teams started winning when his usage dropped from 38%. Wade's usage was about 34% in his F4 year, maybe because Travis and Steve were young yet.

Nevertheless, when usage is high for one player, you get the "Jordan Rules", the "Wade Rules" by Kansas, and the "Howard Rules" the second type around the Big East last year. It isn't about taking the ball out your AA's hands, it's about creating space in your offense so he and others have room to operate.

Last season, MU had three All BE players. The Hausers either hung on the perimeter or crab dribbled slowly into the paint (predictably) for a slow-developing post up. And Markus was the primary ball handler  (or only as Joe was a dud). The bigs were brought out on the perimeter to wedge for space the three perimeter players but were no threat in the paint. Sacar could occasionally find some dribble drive space in certain match-ups, but he was mostly playing as 2 guard out of position. Opposing teams figured out how clog the offense up. The Hausers transferred to a different system (Swing and PG led B1G style slog). In many ways, MU tried to trey shoot it's way out of trouble. The transition game was non-existent other than three on the run.

Yesterday's issue was not Markus' usage but, other than him, Jamal and Ed, the ridiculously high (>20% plus) turnover rates by the rest of the team. Hard to get higher personal usage when you are turning it over that much. This team's depth and skill set is more balanced. But, the team needs to step up and not rely on your superstar to always have to bail you out.

And that's the rub. Easy to blame the superstar who is trying to win, but it is on the coach and team to step up and find the balance. Having Jayce as a threat in the paint offensively really changes things I believe space wise in the offense. Not having him leads to a rerun.

Nicely done.  A good post to bookmark as the season moves forward

[Marcus92]

Great post, Doctor.

[MU82]

Super interesting, Doc.

[Class71]

Have we not beat this subject to death yet?

I think as the season goes by it will become clear why we can not rely only on Markus's great shooting ability. Given his height there are taller, fast defenders who will shut him down. If the pros did not feel that way he would already be in the NBA.

At times, when we play a top tier team with a top defender and Markus keeps chucking and missing we need other options. Also there will be times when, like all humans, he will have a bad day. It will be these times when we need a confident second and third scoring option.

I do not blame Markus or Wojo for him taking a lot of shots when he is on. We all can see the obvious talent. Who I do blame is Wojo for not having a Plan B when Markus is not hitting. In the second half last night Wojo had an opportunity to try other options to develop a Plan B after Markus broke the record. Instead Wojo ran up the score and it appeared the Team development was secondary. We already know Markus can score 38, 40 or 50 or more. What we do not know is who is going to score when the shots simply are not dropping for him.

Do we have a team who can win at times when Markus is unable to deliver? What if Markus gets hurt, what if he is sick, what if he stubs his toe, or a thousand other issues what is our plan then? The answer is simple, we don't have one. Wojo has hung the teams success and failure on one player. Wojo is not developing a Team. He is developing a brand called Markus Howard.

Last, I find Wojo's comments that, he hopes Marquette fans appreciate Markus, misleading. Most Marquette fans do very much appreciate his shooting ability. Being the best scorer of all time is very, very special to any reasonable fan. He is appreciated.

What Wojo is missing is some fans are frustrated with Wojo. That is, his strategy last year and so far this year is appears to over rely on Markus.

Wake up Wojo, the objective is to win more games and it takes more than a national player of the year to do that. Markus needs a strong supporting cast that is battle proven. The Team ex-Markus needs to develop confidence that they can carry the load too. I expect they can but playing Markus, the one-man-show routine, does not develop anything. In fact, it makes the Team more reliant on Markus's scoring and could causes doubts about their own skills. How about we give this team a chance to prove themselves without Markus against cupcakes? How about developing a team, not just a player.

[copious1218]

In the second half last night Wojo had an opportunity to try other options to develop a Plan B after Markus broke the record. Instead Wojo ran up the score and it appeared the Team development was secondary.

Say what now?  You and i were watching different games

[Jay Bee]

Some very dumb comments in a couple of posts above. Demonstrating ignorance of stats and b-ball

Curse u!!

[Benny B]

As I mentioned to my wife at the FiFo last night (as a record was set, mind you) the primary problem last year was with one person on the team who didn't like the Markus Howard show... fortunately, that one person is no longer on the team.

Go team 19-20.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In the second half last night Wojo had an opportunity to try other options to develop a Plan B after Markus broke the record. Instead Wojo ran up the score and it appeared the Team development was secondary.

What game were you watching? Markus only played 7 minutes in the second half and only scored 8/44 points in the second half.