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Author Topic: Joey applied for waiver  (Read 30667 times)

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #300 on: November 24, 2019, 10:28:28 AM »

Good Lord, are you really denying this stuff happens?  How the hell do you think it is so easy for kids to get adderral legitimately....or hey....heard of the opioid crisis?  Plenty of doctors out there that will do lots of things for people at the right price.


No sh*t.

Show me a case where someone was granted a transfer waiver based on a false doctors report. Just one.

This is a classic case of you globalizing something that hasn’t shown to be a problem. At all. Just because you don’t like the idea of granting waivers.

Just ridiculous.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

connie

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #301 on: November 24, 2019, 10:51:35 AM »
I doubt you are going to find a published example.  I also have no doubt that it has happened in the past.  You can't win by calling him out, because he doesn't care.  He is getting the attention he craves.

Pakuni

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #302 on: November 24, 2019, 11:21:20 AM »
As someone that works with students daily, you are wrong.

They all know lists of doctors that are willing to do it provided you pay in cash. For ACT/SAT/MCAT/LSAT, regular exams/courses, to get out of class requirements, etc.

But like I said, finding an example specific to what Chicos was claiming is largely impossible. But I guarantee you if you wanted to go down that route you wouldn't have a problem finding the doctor, and if you go around any college campus and ask kids about shady doctors that would do so, they will refer you to one.

Nobody here is denying that there aren't some shady doctors that won't do unethical/illegal things for a buck.

But that is not what was being discussed here. Cheeks specifically said he would be "happy to provide many links to doctors caught" writing scripts or doing other illegal/unethical things to help a kid get an NCAA transfer waiver. The discussion was never about the existence of unethical doctors until you rushed in to Cheeks' aid and teleported the goalposts to a different area code.

And I guarantee you're wrong (I mean, as long as we're tossing around worthless guarantees).

p.s. Here we are 2+ days later and Cheeks has yet to provide any of those many links he promised.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 11:25:26 AM by Pakuni »

Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #303 on: November 24, 2019, 11:41:48 AM »
The trajectory of this thread:


harryp

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #304 on: November 24, 2019, 12:15:20 PM »
His request was denied

Cheeks

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #305 on: November 24, 2019, 03:38:34 PM »
Nobody here is denying that there aren't some shady doctors that won't do unethical/illegal things for a buck.

But that is not what was being discussed here. Cheeks specifically said he would be "happy to provide many links to doctors caught" writing scripts or doing other illegal/unethical things to help a kid get an NCAA transfer waiver. The discussion was never about the existence of unethical doctors until you rushed in to Cheeks' aid and teleported the goalposts to a different area code.

And I guarantee you're wrong (I mean, as long as we're tossing around worthless guarantees).

p.s. Here we are 2+ days later and Cheeks has yet to provide any of those many links he promised.

Bulls hat.

I said I can happily provide links to doctors writing illegal scripts...and fraud, etc.  show me where I said specifically about doctors and student athletes.  Talk about moving the goalposts...classic.  Go to the original post where I said it...come on Chuckles, this is bad even for you.

As I said, can do this all day with doctor fraud

https://www.statnews.com/2019/04/17/doctors-charged-illegal-prescription-opioid-crackdown/


https://www.fox10tv.com/news/mobile-doctor-charged-with-writing-illegal-prescriptions/article_04bd1726-d8d3-11e9-9ab0-5f07ecc1e4c9.html


100’s of these...if it can happen there, it can happen in the situation I described.  More importantly the ease to do it with depression diagnosis wouldn’t even require a doctor putting themselves at risk.  But unlike what Wadesworld said, doctors have, indeed, written illegal scripts many times...above examples are just the ones actually caught.  How many are not?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 03:42:51 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

wadesworld

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #306 on: November 24, 2019, 03:58:25 PM »
Until a year ago I could never find any celebrities paying huge sums of money so that their kids were on rowing teams to get into college....therefore it never happened, right?  LOL

My point was then and now, depression is one area that is more easily “misdiagnosed” and without too much effort could be used by finding the right doctor to do so.  The amount of fraud we have by people in all walks of life is insane, why would this be any different?

You said you would provide a number of articles showing proof of these college athletes getting doctors to lie about their health to give them immediate eligibility.  Now you're claiming that because you don't have the articles that you promised to prove it it happens anyway?

Nice.

Pakuni

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #307 on: November 24, 2019, 05:10:37 PM »

Benny B

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #308 on: November 24, 2019, 08:41:07 PM »

Good Lord, are you really denying this stuff happens?  How the hell do you think it is so easy for kids to get adderral legitimately....or hey....heard of the opioid crisis?  Plenty of doctors out there that will do lots of things for people at the right price.

Dumbass. 

Adderall isn’t an opioid. 
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

panda

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #309 on: November 24, 2019, 08:52:39 PM »
Bulls hat.

I said I can happily provide links to doctors writing illegal scripts...and fraud, etc.  show me where I said specifically about doctors and student athletes.  Talk about moving the goalposts...classic.  Go to the original post where I said it...come on Chuckles, this is bad even for you.

As I said, can do this all day with doctor fraud

https://www.statnews.com/2019/04/17/doctors-charged-illegal-prescription-opioid-crackdown/


https://www.fox10tv.com/news/mobile-doctor-charged-with-writing-illegal-prescriptions/article_04bd1726-d8d3-11e9-9ab0-5f07ecc1e4c9.html


100’s of these...if it can happen there, it can happen in the situation I described.  More importantly the ease to do it with depression diagnosis wouldn’t even require a doctor putting themselves at risk.  But unlike what Wadesworld said, doctors have, indeed, written illegal scripts many times...above examples are just the ones actually caught.  How many are not?

You’re a joke

MU82

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #310 on: November 24, 2019, 10:25:53 PM »
One link about a doctor providing a false report to ensure that a college athlete has immediate eligibility, hoopaloop.

Provide it, and I'll tip my hat to you. Don't, and all you are doing is talkin' out your bunghole as usual.

And a legit link about a legit case of it ... not like the pretend poll you tried to pass off as "proof" that most Americans are against athletes profiting off their NIL when the exact opposite is true (and decisively so).
"I can't breathe." -- George Floyd

Cheeks

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #311 on: November 25, 2019, 09:34:57 AM »

No sh*t.

Show me a case where someone was granted a transfer waiver based on a false doctors report. Just one.

This is a classic case of you globalizing something that hasn’t shown to be a problem. At all. Just because you don’t like the idea of granting waivers.

Just ridiculous.

I can absolutely tell you of cases where the ncaa is highly skeptical of the reasons...talk to the ncaa.  They know the sh*t people pull all the time in every walk of life and this is no different.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #312 on: November 25, 2019, 09:35:58 AM »
You said you would provide a number of articles showing proof of these college athletes getting doctors to lie about their health to give them immediate eligibility.  Now you're claiming that because you don't have the articles that you promised to prove it it happens anyway?

Nice.

I said I would provide a number of articles about doctor shopping, which I did.  But sure, let's be naive and say it never happens with college athletes.  Hilarious.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 09:56:36 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #313 on: November 25, 2019, 09:37:05 AM »
Dumbass. 

Adderall isn’t an opioid.

Who said it is?  I didn’t.  There's a reason I said "OR HEY" in my sentence...new idea, not linking Adderall with opioids, but showing another example of prescriptions being given out like candy by doctors. My point is you can doctor shop for adderall like crazy and students do it.  The best one is claiming ADHD.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 09:55:40 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #314 on: November 25, 2019, 09:44:19 AM »
Who said it is?  I didn’t.  My point is you can doctor shop for adderall like crazy and students do it.  The best one is claiming ADHD.

Has an NCAA athlete ever been granted a transfer waiver because of ADHD?

Cheeks

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #315 on: November 25, 2019, 09:53:23 AM »
Has an NCAA athlete ever been granted a transfer waiver because of ADHD?

I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope.  I said doctor shopping goes on in this country all the time.  Whether it is for opioids, or Adderall, or Viagra.  Whether it is firemen or police officers in California, New York, etc to get extra disability (tons of articles on this), whether it is Joe blow or Sally blow...people scam the system....for insurance, for workman's comp, for "slipping" on the floor, or pretending to be mugged going to Subway in Chicago at 2:00am...whatever...people do this.  ALL THE TIME.  This is why companies have fraud units.  This is why the gov't does.  This is why the NCAA has processes to make sure this crap isn't happening...because it is.

Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MU82

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #316 on: November 25, 2019, 09:56:36 AM »
Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.

Harbaugh backs your unproveable doctor-shopping theory = Harbaugh good.

Harbaugh goes against you wanting to punish athletes who transfer = Harbaugh bad.
"I can't breathe." -- George Floyd

Cheeks

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #317 on: November 25, 2019, 10:01:01 AM »
Harbaugh backs your unproveable doctor-shopping theory = Harbaugh good.

Harbaugh goes against you wanting to punish athletes who transfer = Harbaugh bad.

LOL.  We can play this game all day if you wish.  Maybe you should post a Thomas Jefferson quote about the media supporting you, and I post a Thomas Jefferson quote trashing the media for what they do.

Jefferson backs your idea of journalism = Jefferson good

Jefferson goes against your idea of journalism = Jefferson bad

LOL.  Next thing Pakuni will tell me 10,000 economists agree and when 10,000 other economists don't agree...the crickets start chirping.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #318 on: November 25, 2019, 10:14:04 AM »
I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope. 

If there are no known cases of a kid getting a transfer waiver over ADHD (legit or not) then why are you bringing up ADHD in a discussion about transfer waivers?

(It's a rhetorical question, btw. We all know why.)

Lennys Tap

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #319 on: November 25, 2019, 10:18:24 AM »
I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope.  I said doctor shopping goes on in this country all the time.  Whether it is for opioids, or Adderall, or Viagra.  Whether it is firemen or police officers in California, New York, etc to get extra disability (tons of articles on this), whether it is Joe blow or Sally blow...people scam the system....for insurance, for workman's comp, for "slipping" on the floor, or pretending to be mugged going to Subway in Chicago at 2:00am...whatever...people do this.  ALL THE TIME.  This is why companies have fraud units.  This is why the gov't does.  This is why the NCAA has processes to make sure this crap isn't happening...because it is.

Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.

I think everyone would agree that human nature is such that whatever the system SOME people will try to game it. And some will succeed. I'm all for trying to catch the "abusers" but why punish those with legitimate claims because of the bad guys? Some people abuse alcohol. Should it be banned for all? You're on a legitimately slippery slope with your argument.

Cheeks

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #320 on: November 25, 2019, 10:20:39 AM »
If there are no known cases of a kid getting a transfer waiver over ADHD (legit or not) then why are you bringing up ADHD in a discussion about transfer waivers?

(It's a rhetorical question, btw. We all know why.)

It was an example of how easy it is to doctor shop for prescription drugs....very simple, not sure why you missed it.  I could use any number of other examples, that's the one I chose.  Just as it would not be hard to find a mental health professional to say, "yup, you are suffering from _____ and here's your note so you can transfer".  It's exactly why Harbaugh and others brought it up.  Already happening, and the NCAA is now put into a position of questioning one doctor vs another.  Of course, this is exactly what the anti-NCAA folks want anyway...that way they can say the NCAA shouldn't be involved in these decisions at all....LET EVERYONE TRANSFER WHENEVER.  This is right out of the playbook and the end game here.  Sultan, Rico and others can have a celebration as it totally annihilates lower and mid level schools, and the haves become even more of the beneficiaries. 

CUE the "most kids transfer down" stats....which of course almost no one gives a damn about.  It's the raiding of talent from other schools to move up that destroys the system.  But hey...some of you all love that stuff.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MUDPT

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #321 on: November 25, 2019, 10:31:24 AM »
I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope.  I said doctor shopping goes on in this country all the time.  Whether it is for opioids, or Adderall, or Viagra.  Whether it is firemen or police officers in California, New York, etc to get extra disability (tons of articles on this), whether it is Joe blow or Sally blow...people scam the system....for insurance, for workman's comp, for "slipping" on the floor, or pretending to be mugged going to Subway in Chicago at 2:00am...whatever...people do this.  ALL THE TIME.  This is why companies have fraud units.  This is why the gov't does.  This is why the NCAA has processes to make sure this crap isn't happening...because it is.

Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.

I’m guessing you’ve never had to give a medical deposition in court or in front of lawyers before.

Cheeks

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #322 on: November 25, 2019, 10:41:34 AM »
I’m guessing you’ve never had to give a medical deposition in court or in front of lawyers before.

I've had to give multiple depositions over the years, but not on medical. 


Let me ask you, why are so many mental health care cases misdiagnosed?  Could it be because that discipline is not an exact science?  It is based on opinion and two highly qualified mental health care professionals can have different viewpoints about the same case?  Thus, if you agree with this statement (and the literature supports how often people are misdiagnosed) how hard would it be for someone to visit multiple doctors until they get the diagnosis they want, especially when it is largely opinion based?  It's not binary where you have cancer or you don't.  Mental health diagnosis are nto always that clear cut.

Look how often ADHD is misdiagnosed instead of depression as just one example. Anxiety, bipolar, OCD...misdiagnosed per the literature at a pretty good clip.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

wadesworld

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #323 on: November 25, 2019, 12:01:39 PM »
I have no idea...did I say that?  Nope.  I said doctor shopping goes on in this country all the time.  Whether it is for opioids, or Adderall, or Viagra.  Whether it is firemen or police officers in California, New York, etc to get extra disability (tons of articles on this), whether it is Joe blow or Sally blow...people scam the system....for insurance, for workman's comp, for "slipping" on the floor, or pretending to be mugged going to Subway in Chicago at 2:00am...whatever...people do this.  ALL THE TIME.  This is why companies have fraud units.  This is why the gov't does.  This is why the NCAA has processes to make sure this crap isn't happening...because it is.

Harbaugh identified it last year saying forcing justification of transfers will cause players to make up fake reasons to transfer, be it medical or otherwise.    He thinks kids should be able to transfer once, of course, anyone at the highest echelon of schools wants this, because other schools become their feeder / minor leagues, but he is exactly right that they will fake reasons when justification is needed.  It's what humans do all the time.

People doctor shop so they can pretend to be mugged going to the subway at 2:00 AM? What?

I think we have our own doctor shopper on MUScoop!

Anyways, I’ll take those multiple articles on doctors making up diagnoses or writing unnecessary prescriptions to get a transfer waiver anytime now. M

Tha Hound

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Re: Joey applied for waiver
« Reply #324 on: November 25, 2019, 12:10:41 PM »
Lock this crap already