Rafa wins classic U.S. Open Final

[MU82]

What an incredible, entertaining, edge-of-the-seat match between one of the 5 best (maybe No. 1?) tennis players ever and a young upstart.

The fact that Medvedev was seen as a Russian villain early in the tournament -- a skinny, racquet-wielding Drago, who actually welcomed playing the heel -- but that he won over the crowd through his effort and fearless play made Sunday's title match only more compelling.

In the end, Rafa Nadal had the skill and will to win his 19th major, only one fewer than Federer.

Another example why championship-level sports is the only "reality TV" anybody needs!

[shoothoops]

Medvedev has had a great season. He has had a history of somewhat disruptive behavior at tournaments over the years. 

You can’t really compare eras or all time stats in tennis, similar to other sports because all players can’t play in all eras. In the past there was much less emphasis on the majors/slams. A big reason is money. Now majors are big money and can make or break a fledgling player’s earnings in some cases. Counting slam titles wasn’t a thing until the most recent eras. Many past players never even bothered going to Australia for example. 

Rafa is in a small group of count on one hand players to win the U.S. Open this many times. He has certainly established himself as an all time great player and an elite clay court and hard court player. And of course he has won majors on all surfaces and many other events.

In women’s tennis, Serena Williams has now lost 8 of 10 semifinals or finals of majors. The good news for her is she is still competing at a top level. The bad is she once again needs another major to try for her goal of 24. No reason to believe she can’t get there. Andreescu was a difficult matchup for her. But Serena was a no show much of the match, C level for her ability. She has the best serve in women’s tennis going back a long time and struggled to reach 50% first serves Saturday. Poor footwork, technique, unforced errors, after playing well most of the tourney. Bianca is a big time player with a variety of assets and skills. And she once again Serena started slowly and poorly. She can still get there. She was definitely more fit at the U.S. Open than in a while. U.S. Open is always a great, fun, event.

[JWags85]

Rafa got very fortunate this tournament.  Until Medvedev, he managed to skirt any difficult matchups.  Zeverev, Djokovic, Federer, even a big guy like Isner, he missed them all.  Its not his fault, but things really worked out well for him.

Medvedev is really talented, and he hits some amazing shots, but he's very surly and frankly an ass.  Really was hoping Dimitrov would have taken him out cause he's one of the best guys in tennis with an awesome game who had a really rough 2018 with form and injury.  Hope he returns to his top 20 ability and game.  Medvedev has plenty of time to remake his image as a top pro, but flipping off fans, berating umps, and being a poor sport isn't the way to do it.  He's McEnroe without charisma right now.

In women’s tennis, Serena Williams has now lost 8 of 10 semifinals or finals of majors. The good news for her is she is still competing at a top level. The bad is she once again needs another major to try for her goal of 24. No reason to believe she can’t get there. Andreescu was a difficult matchup for her. But Serena was a no show much of the match, C level for her ability. She has the best serve in women’s tennis going back a long time and struggled to reach 50% first serves Saturday. Poor footwork, technique, unforced errors, after playing well most of the tourney. Bianca is a big time player with a variety of assets and skills. And she once again Serena started slowly and poorly. She can still get there. She was definitely more fit at the U.S. Open than in a while. U.S. Open is always a great, fun, event.

Serena is the greatest female player ever, her career and her continued ability at this stage is astounding, and she's easily in the argument for best individual athletes of all time.  That being said, my god is she ever an entitled brat at this point.  I had the match on my computer as I watched football and I couldn't believe her body language and general demeanor during the match.  Whiny, complaining, defeatist, which is honestly the way she behaves whenever anyone steps up and matches her the last few years.  It feels like she has 2 modes: supernova, freight train, world beater like most of the tournament, or surly poor sport like on Saturday.  You would think she would have learned after the Osaka embarrassment last year.

Part of the reason was probably the dumbass crowd.  You have a Canadian teen in her first time past the 2R in a major against the best of all time, and they are screaming during points, wildly celebrating not winners from Serena, but unforced errors.  We've talked about the partisan crowds in tennis before, but this was next level to me.  Incredible grit and fight from Andreescu to blow the double break and still claw back to win.  Full marks.  Hopefully she's a more enduring tennis force from up north than Bouchard.

[MU82]

JWags and shoothoops: Agree mostly with y'all's take.

Agree about Medvedev's demeanor earlier in this tournament and in previous events, but he comported himself well yesterday and no doubt picked up lots of supporters. I am a huge Rafa fan, but I'm not sure I would have been as tolerant of Rafa's slow play as Medvedev was.

I do disagree that Medvedev lacks "charisma." His acceptance of the heel role was quite charismatic IMHO. As for his tennis, I was pretty damn impressed that he made a significant tactical change for the championship match -- coming to the net WAY more often than he ever had -- and it almost helped him pull off a monumental upset.

Obviously agree about Nadal's road to this title, but as was said, it wasn't his fault and he owes no apologies.

I mean, take away his 12 French Opens and Rafa still has won as many majors (7) as McEnroe, Newcombe and Wilander; more than Becker, Edberg and Budge; and only 1 fewer than Perry, Rosewall, Connors, Lendl and Agassi. That's pretty remarkable for a "clay-court guy"!

As is the case with golf, I don't think the emphasis on majors really is about money. I just think that's how it has evolved -- top players started caring more about them, the media made a far bigger deal of them, the major networks televised all or most of them, etc. Tiger is worth probably $1B; he wants to win majors because they are the "standard," not because the Masters has a bigger winner's share than the Deere does. Same with Rafa; he is worth hundreds of millions of dollars; I doubt the winner's check motivated him one iota yesterday. I doubt the money was even the driving force for Andreescu or Medvedev.

Those of us who are tennis fans have been so lucky these last 15 years to have gotten to watch three other-worldly talents like Nadal, Federer and Djokovic compete against each other on the biggest stages so often, and also to see them take on challengers from outside the Big 3 and teach the "young whippersnappers" who's boss. It will be a sad day when any one of them can no longer compete at this level, and sadder still when none of them can. That time is coming, especially for Federer, but it ain't here yet!

Agree with everything about Serena. I used to love watching her play, and I still appreciate her talent, but she is a total diva now and easier to root against than for IMHO. I was pulling for Andreescu, and in recent years I also have pulled for Stephens, Ostapenko, Osaka, etc.

Now that she is much less mobile and has become more inconsistent with her groundstrokes, her serve is what separates her from all the others. When it abandons her, as it did Saturday, she is extremely beatable.

Very impressed with Andreescu, and agree with the many experts (including Serena) who believe she has a great chance to ascend to No. 1.

[shoothoops]

With Rafa, yes he benefitted from the way the draw played out. Part of winning is luck. Also, he was healthy which he often isn’t. No knee issues, no wrist issues, and he was fit, even less top heavy physique compared tp some past years but solid fitness and strength. It’s a bit interesting he has won just the one Australian Open and two Wimbledon. Matchups and the above factor into that.

Serena’s worst game of the final was her first, on serve, zero zero, disastrous game. Bianca’s level was too high for that.

In the old days many players would get intimidated to play Serena before the match would even start. (See her semifinal match this past week) But now there is belief. I draw the comparison to Tiger Woods in golf. Many more golfers have the belief now than several years ago that they can defeat Tiger. Serena os respected highly, but the top players have the belief against her now.

Osaka was the better player last year in the final. Serena fell apart before this one even started but it was one of her better chances to get to 24.

Patrick Morotoglou her coach for many years now has helped her a great deal with being professional, pr, etc...vs when she was younger. Obviously he has also helped her game. He understands her strengths and weaknesses as well as opponents, and has solid strategies. He on the other hand has been able to coach an all time great. Serena’s story is one of the all time great stories in sports. Compton, CA to now.

The very top players play to count major titles. For many others that big tourney money is huge. Part of the reason it is about counting major titles is because the top players have so much money, it becomes about something else. This was not the case in the past. Also, technology, equipment, physio, training, dietary, coaching, etc scheduling strategically, are all very different in the modern era to the past. So I am more of a...this player is one of the better or best or even the best of his or her era, and an all time great. But I am not willing to go past that.

It was published recently that of the highest 10 plus paid female athletes today, 100% are tennis players.  Tennis is getting better, but still needs to close the gap with $ for bottom tour players. I believe the top 100 PGA golfers make 7 figures in playing money alone. That is not the case with ATP. Oracle has been putting a lot of money into the challenger (minor league) events and developing many more of the them in the U.S. which is great. CBS This Morning television did a recent story on former U.S. junior star and current tour player Noah Rubin. Worth a look about life as a top 200 player ad the grind and expenses and earnings.

19 different women have won a Grand Slam singles title this decade. I believe 6 different men have done it. I need to double check that but I believe those are the numbers.

Lots of really good up and coming American female players, much more so than the men.

Also, in dubs the Bryan Brothers failed again to get Bob closer to 18 like his brother Mike. (Mike broke the all time previous record the past couple of years of 17) He has 16 then he had hip surgery. Mike tacked on two more with Jack Sock.

The Asian swing is next on tour with good money and appearances fees for the top players and big names.

[MU82]

Lots of good info in there, shoot.

I can tell you're a big tennis fan.

Of course it's hard to compare between eras -- that's true of all sports. Doesn't mean we can't have fun trying!

Take care.

[Not A Serious Person]

What is the point of the serve clock if you do not enforce it?  I know they called Rafa a few times but they could have called him on half his serves.  He is one of the slowest players on the tour and is allowed to get away with violating the clock time and again because he is Rafa.

Also, you play to the server's pace.  How many times did Rafa put his racquet up to slow down Medvedev? He should have just served it anyway.

I hate the way Rafa is allowed to manipulate the game and he is not called on it.

----

One guy that has had it with Rafa's antics is Kyrigos.  Their matches are old school 1970s Ilie "Nasty" Nastase complete with trash-talking each other (and worse).  And I love when Kyrigos under-hand servers to Rafa (because Rafa stands 20 feet behind the baseline) and then Rafa whines like a 10-year old about it.

More players should start pushing back against Rafa on the court.

[Not A Serious Person]

It was published recently that of the highest 10 plus paid female athletes today, 100% are tennis players.  Tennis is getting better, but still needs to close the gap with $ for bottom tour players. I believe the top 100 PGA golfers make 7 figures in playing money alone. That is not the case with ATP. Oracle has been putting a lot of money into the challenger (minor league) events and developing many more of the them in the U.S. which is great. CBS This Morning television did a recent story on former U.S. junior star and current tour player Noah Rubin. Worth a look about life as a top 200 player ad the grind and expenses and earnings.

The lack of money is a real problem in tennis.  In Asia betting on tennis is a big deal.  Tennis has a long history of matches being fixed. More money would help.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jan/10/police-spain-break-up-tennis-match-fixing-ring-28-pros

American tennis is terrible.  This week Americans in the top 100 number just 16 women and only 9 men.  Europe, about the same size as the US, has over 60 in each category.

The college system is not structured to help develop payers into pros. The USTA developmental programs are a joke, especially at the junior level. The sport does not think creatively (like troll the G-League, it is full of 6'6" world-class athletes making no money.  See if any of them are interested in picking up a racquet.)

Noah Rubin should have stayed at Wake Forest another year or maybe two.

[Not A Serious Person]

Serena is the greatest female player ever, her career and her continued ability at this stage is astounding, and she's easily in the argument for best individual athletes of all time.  That being said, my god is she ever an entitled brat at this point.  I had the match on my computer as I watched football and I couldn't believe her body language and general demeanor during the match.  Whiny, complaining, defeatist, which is honestly the way she behaves whenever anyone steps up and matches her the last few years. 

This is because she is losing the big matches and has a confidence problem.

If the "good guys" like Rafa, Roger or Novak went through a spell-like she has the last two years, they would be every bit as "difficult" as Serena. 

It's easy to be magnanimous and a "good guy" when you hoist trophies every month.  Much harder when you lose.

[MU82]

What is the point of the serve clock if you do not enforce it?  I know they called Rafa a few times but they could have called him on half his serves.  He is one of the slowest players on the tour and is allowed to get away with violating the clock time and again because he is Rafa.

Also, you play to the server's pace.  How many times did Rafa put his racquet up to slow down Medvedev? He should have just served it anyway.

I hate the way Rafa is allowed to manipulate the game and he is not called on it.

----

One guy that has had it with Rafa's antics is Kyrigos.  Their matches are old school 1970s Ilie "Nasty" Nastase complete with trash-talking each other (and worse).  And I love when Kyrigos under-hand servers to Rafa (because Rafa stands 20 feet behind the baseline) and then Rafa whines like a 10-year old about it.

More players should start pushing back against Rafa on the court.

They enforced it at the U.S. Open. Previous tournaments, not so much. Each has its own rule. I agree they should enforce it uniformly. I'm a big Rafa fan, but he shouldn't be above the rules. I thought it was great that he had the mental strength to pull out that match even though he was penalized a few times; weaker players (like Kyrgios) would have totally lost their shyte.

Kyrgios is a boor and a clown who will never realize his true potential because he's in it only for the money and admittedly doesn't work hard enough to be a champion. He is an irritant and agitator, kind of a Dennis Rodman of tennis. Except Rodman actually cared about winning and worked like a demon to become the best at what he did.

When Kyrgios wins anything that matters, you let us know, OK?

This is because she is losing the big matches and has a confidence problem.

If the "good guys" like Rafa, Roger or Novak went through a spell-like she has the last two years, they would be every bit as "difficult" as Serena. 

It's easy to be magnanimous and a "good guy" when you hoist trophies every month.  Much harder when you lose.

Just your opinion, nothing more.

And who here claimed that any of the big 3 men were "good guys"? None of us know them. But we certainly can see Serena when she's being a diva ... and she was one well before she started "going through a spell." Swearing at umpires, threatening line judges, etc. Every time something doesn't go her way, it's the umpire's fault or the line judge's fault or her opponent's fault. And that's my opinion, based on years of observation.  If any of the big 3 men acted like that, I'd be happy to call them out on it.

[shoothoops]

What is the point of the serve clock if you do not enforce it?  I know they called Rafa a few times but they could have called him on half his serves.  He is one of the slowest players on the tour and is allowed to get away with violating the clock time and again because he is Rafa.

Also, you play to the server's pace.  How many times did Rafa put his racquet up to slow down Medvedev? He should have just served it anyway.

I hate the way Rafa is allowed to manipulate the game and he is not called on it.

----

One guy that has had it with Rafa's antics is Kyrigos.  Their matches are old school 1970s Ilie "Nasty" Nastase complete with trash-talking each other (and worse).  And I love when Kyrigos under-hand servers to Rafa (because Rafa stands 20 feet behind the baseline) and then Rafa whines like a 10-year old about it.

More players should start pushing back against Rafa on the court.

I do agree about Rafa's slow pace. It was called as early as the first game. Once it becomes more mainstream, calling faults for violations, that will improve. At least there is more transparency now with the clock, which is a start. Only Federer had a bigger fan base following than Nadal. Plus the stage, etc...but the rule needs more enforcement. As for returns, it's actually in the rule book that the server must be reasonable with pace, meaning can't speed pitch so to speak the opponent, so it's not just server dictating pace. But yes Nadal had his hand up often. .....Nadal came in to net significantly more vs Medvedev, 28 of 36 success in first 3 sets alone. Several serve and volleys too. This is way outside his norm to try it and he was successful. He also unsurprisingly returned well. Medvedev previously had a 40% non return rate first serves. That was 13% during match v Nadal.

Just this past year there were 25 American men in the ATP top 200. It's the most since 2002. American women have a similar amount in WTA top 200. The biggest difference is there are many more women capable of being top 10 players, winning slams. The men take hits because anything short of winning slams or being in top 10 is not considered good or great. Isner has long been the best American male, top 20 player for literally ten years. That's really difficult to do. There are many sports choices in the U.S......Europe may be smaller but look at how many pro tourneys they have. They also have two slams of four.  Golf has PGA tour mostly in the USA. 3 of 4 majors in USA. Tennis is more International based.  improving coverage also helps.

I said CBS this morning. i meant CBS Sunday Morning for Noah's piece. Noah is carving a niche with his behind the racquet publication and other behind the scenes tennis in addition to playing.

Kyrgios is what he is for now, talented, gets up to play big players, prefers team sports, doesn't put in the work, has impulse control issues. Andy Murray is friendly with him and could be a good mentor for him.

[🏀]

I wish the PGA would call a slow play penalty on a Sunday, on the leader.

[Not A Serious Person]

And who here claimed that any of the big 3 men were "good guys"? None of us know them. But we certainly can see Serena when she's being a diva ... and she was one well before she started "going through a spell." Swearing at umpires, threatening line judges, etc. Every time something doesn't go her way, it's the umpire's fault or the line judge's fault or her opponent's fault. And that's my opinion, based on years of observation.  If any of the big 3 men acted like that, I'd be happy to call them out on it.

Good comments above, I agree with a lot of them. 

Regarding Serena, if she was not like this, would she have won 23 majors and be in the conversation fo the greatest female athlete ever? 

People that act like the really nice neighbors down the street do not have this kind of success.  It takes a "demanding" personality.

[MU82]

Good comments above, I agree with a lot of them. 

Regarding Serena, if she was not like this, would she have won 23 majors and be in the conversation fo the greatest female athlete ever? 

People that act like the really nice neighbors down the street do not have this kind of success.  It takes a "demanding" personality.

It certainly seems as if it has worked for her.

Then again, maybe if she didn't let stuff get to her so easily she would have won another major or two. We'll never know!

[MU82]

One of the more interesting things about the Nadal-Medvedev match IMHO:

It was 2-2 in the fifth set and Medvedev served his way to a 40-0 lead. Nadal rarely concedes anything, but as many players do in such a situation, he had decided to conserve energy by not getting into any long rallies once he fell behind in that game. He was willing to let Medvedev hold so he could get on with winning his next service game.

But Medvedev missed a wide-open court to make it 40-15 and then when he also mis-hit to give away the next point, all of a sudden Rafa decided he was no longer going to concede the game. Rafa won the next point to send it to deuce and eventually broke Medvedev for a 3-2 lead. Nadal then held serve and broke Medvedev again to make it 5-2. Medvedev fought gamely after that but to no avail.

Nadal literally was willing to give that game to Medvedev, but the Russian was too tired or too lackadaisical or too whatever to take it. One could argue it ended up being the most important game of the match.

[JWags85]

This is because she is losing the big matches and has a confidence problem.

If the "good guys" like Rafa, Roger or Novak went through a spell-like she has the last two years, they would be every bit as "difficult" as Serena. 

It's easy to be magnanimous and a "good guy" when you hoist trophies every month.  Much harder when you lose.

And who here claimed that any of the big 3 men were "good guys"? None of us know them. But we certainly can see Serena when she's being a diva ... and she was one well before she started "going through a spell." Swearing at umpires, threatening line judges, etc. Every time something doesn't go her way, it's the umpire's fault or the line judge's fault or her opponent's fault. And that's my opinion, based on years of observation.  If any of the big 3 men acted like that, I'd be happy to call them out on it.

Agree with Mike here.  Nobody was talking about good guys (though Fed is wildly thought of as one of the nicest, kindest guys in sports), but all of those big 3 have had adversity.  Novak had gaps in winning majors.  Fed won 1 major between 2010 and 2017 and people thought he was done.  Nadal has had limited success at both Wimbledon and the Australian.  But none of them act like she does.  Shes not used to losing and can't handle it, so she's a poor sport.  Could you see Federer (her closest comp in both age and success) pulling what she did against Osaka last year?  Every player complains about calls or gets exasperated/frustrated, but those guys aren't berating officials and blaming anyone and everyone for their failings.

There is a difference between "demanding" and being entitled and disrespectful.