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Author Topic: Crowder & Hayward to HOF  (Read 20980 times)

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #300 on: August 24, 2019, 09:40:41 PM »

Of course we should have regulations and rules.  The NCAA's are unreasonable.

The membership disagrees because they know the rampant cheating that will happen.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #301 on: August 24, 2019, 09:42:21 PM »
Umm, that’s a huge huge stretch..... >:(

MU82 isn’t wrong when one thinks about the quote in context of the world which is what he was responding to.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #302 on: August 24, 2019, 09:54:33 PM »
The membership disagrees because they know the rampant cheating that will happen.

The membership disagrees because they want the $$. It’s painfully obvious they don’t care all that much about cheating.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #303 on: August 24, 2019, 09:56:45 PM »
The membership disagrees because they want the $$. It’s painfully obvious they don’t care all that much about cheating.

I think if you were to ask some people here that do that for a living, Billy being one, he would disagree.  That is my guess anyway.

"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #304 on: August 24, 2019, 11:34:30 PM »
The membership disagrees because they want the $$. It’s painfully obvious they don’t care all that much about cheating.

This times a thousand. If they cared about cheating, players being paid wouldn't be a tradition that stretched back to the days of Al. The NCAA members just don't want to actually allow the people that make them money to earn any of that money, because it would have to come out of their cut.

Jay Bee

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #305 on: August 24, 2019, 11:38:27 PM »
This times a thousand. If they cared about cheating, players being paid wouldn't be a tradition that stretched back to the days of Al. The NCAA members just don't want to actually allow the people that make them money to earn any of that money, because it would have to come out of their cut.

Left wing Billy disagrees, and he's in the mix.

Easy to be a blowhard that whines about the 'big bag NCAA'...

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #306 on: August 25, 2019, 01:41:13 AM »
Every student should get to go on an all expenses paid trip to Spain and France and bring their Trombones to play at small gyms......isn’t also a fair question?  Why does the basketball team get so much?

Because the basketball team generates more revenue than most (probably all) students. They should be entitled to more compensation.

This has nothing to do with the question of athletes profiting off their likenesses.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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And the wisdom to know the difference.

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Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #307 on: August 25, 2019, 09:08:18 AM »
Because the basketball team generates more revenue than most (probably all) students. They should be entitled to more compensation.

This has nothing to do with the question of athletes profiting off their likenesses.

BUT IT ISN’T FAIR!!!!   

The women’s soccer team works just as hard.  The women’s cross country team.  The men’s lacrosse team.

Life isn’t fair, and yes the revenue sports carry the weight for the others which is also why the whole thing implodes with this continued unicorn thinking of taking care of the 1%’ers.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #308 on: August 25, 2019, 09:10:27 AM »
BUT IT ISN’T FAIR!!!!   

The women’s soccer team works just as hard.  The women’s cross country team.  The men’s lacrosse team.

Life isn’t fair, and yes the revenue sports carry the weight for the others which is also why the whole thing implodes with this continued unicorn thinking of taking care of the 1%’ers.

That's why all of them would also be able to profit off their likenesses. Frankly, anyone who remotely supports capitalism as even a marginally good idea should support this.

Jay Bee

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #309 on: August 25, 2019, 09:55:55 AM »
That's why all of them would also be able to profit off their likenesses. Frankly, anyone who remotely supports capitalism as even a marginally good idea should support this.

Nah. I support a person's ability to chose to skip college and get paid, if the market will pay them.

That's the current model. It's great.

brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #310 on: August 25, 2019, 10:02:41 AM »
Nah. I support a person's ability to chose to skip college and get paid, if the market will pay them.

That's the current model. It's great.

The current model also allows 98% of students to go to college and get paid. No reason to discriminate against those that are involved in certain extracurriculars.

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #311 on: August 25, 2019, 10:16:55 AM »
That's why all of them would also be able to profit off their likenesses. Frankly, anyone who remotely supports capitalism as even a marginally good idea should support this.

I worked for years with the student athletes that are supported by the current system, most of them women, minorities.  I support their ability to get an education and perform for their school with their athletic talents.  You haven't worked with those people and the opportunities that would be extinguished in your quest to help the 1%.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #312 on: August 25, 2019, 10:18:11 AM »
Nah. I support a person's ability to chose to skip college and get paid, if the market will pay them.

That's the current model. It's great.

Exactly, the options are already there, but these guys want to force an option that already exists into a different construct all the while destroying massive opportunities that currently exist for 100's of thousands of student athletes.  Not the least of which is the legal, Title IX issue they seem to always want to duck.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MU82

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #313 on: August 25, 2019, 10:41:29 AM »
Umm, that’s a huge huge stretch..... >:(

I seriously doubt a minimum wage worker could come anywhere close to funding the four-year cost of a full scholarship.

Y'all really don't think that, "in the great scheme of the world as a whole," an American minimum wage worker has "far less to complain about than billions of others"?
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brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #314 on: August 25, 2019, 10:45:00 AM »
I worked for years with the student athletes that are supported by the current system, most of them women, minorities.  I support their ability to get an education and perform for their school with their athletic talents.  You haven't worked with those people and the opportunities that would be extinguished in your quest to help the 1%.

Oh yes, the current system is perfect and should never be changed or improved because of what you used to do years and years and years ago. Whoopty freaking doo.

I'm not one to cry for executives worried that their billion dollar business model might be dented, and think it's fair to afford everyone the same opportunities. Shocking that you support a system that takes away the economic self-determination from the labor force and puts it in the pocket of the entities taking in billions of dollars in donations and endowments.

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #315 on: August 25, 2019, 11:53:10 AM »
BUT IT ISN’T FAIR!!!!   

The women’s soccer team works just as hard.  The women’s cross country team.  The men’s lacrosse team.

Life isn’t fair, and yes the revenue sports carry the weight for the others which is also why the whole thing implodes with this continued unicorn thinking of taking care of the 1%’ers.

You quoted me but I have no idea how this relates to my post. Basketball players generate more revenue, they get more compensation. That's 100% fair.

That has nothing to do with students profitting off their likeness.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #316 on: August 25, 2019, 11:57:14 AM »
You quoted me but I have no idea how this relates to my post. Basketball players generate more revenue, they get more compensation. That's 100% fair.

That has nothing to do with students profitting off their likeness.

Basketball players are already getting MORE than the other student athletes.....playing in front of thousands, auditioning each day for a job that will pay them in their careers after college (99% of other student athletes don't get to be paid to play sports overseas or at home after they are done), foreign trips, first class locker rooms and training, etc, etc, etc, etc.  That's what they get for generating more revenue....better digs, better circumstances, better end results after school.

If they don't like it, go pro....there are other alternatives.  Don't destroy the entire thing to appease the 1%.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Uncle Rico

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #317 on: August 25, 2019, 12:05:46 PM »
The NCAA is trash.  Let the players earn every penny they can get.  Amateurism is a sham
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brewcity77

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #318 on: August 25, 2019, 12:07:43 PM »
Players being able to profit off their likenesses won't stop the NCAA Tournament from bringing in billions that can fund other sports. Stop with the Chicken Little fear mongering.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #319 on: August 25, 2019, 12:14:22 PM »
Oh yes, the current system is perfect and should never be changed or improved because of what you used to do years and years and years ago. Whoopty freaking doo.

I'm not one to cry for executives worried that their billion dollar business model might be dented, and think it's fair to afford everyone the same opportunities. Shocking that you support a system that takes away the economic self-determination from the labor force and puts it in the pocket of the entities taking in billions of dollars in donations and endowments.

I guess I’ll chime in one more time because the “billion dollar” business argument is a little disingenuous.  Because it is a billion dollars divided by x number of years divided by X number of teams/schools divided by X number of scholarship athletes and  the hundreds of thousands of dollars being spent on them already divided by the millions spent on non basketball and football athletes.   If you are assuming this then your not feeling sorry for a “billion dollar business” can continue.

Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #320 on: August 25, 2019, 12:24:12 PM »
I guess I’ll chime in one more time because the “billion dollar” business argument is a little disingenuous.  Because it is a billion dollars divided by x number of years divided by X number of teams/schools divided by X number of scholarship athletes and  the hundreds of thousands of dollars being spent on them already divided by the millions spent on non basketball and football athletes.   If you are assuming this then your not feeling sorry for a “billion dollar business” can continue.

Yup, it so massively disingenuous to suggest people are getting rich off this.  Oh sure, coaches can make a ton of money, and of course the vast majority do not....but people focus only on the coaches from two sports and only the elite coaches....they aren’t asking how much the coaches at Prairie View are making because it doesn’t serve their argument. 

And you are also correct, the money coming is in redistributed (some of these guys normally get stimulated by that word) to schools in D1, D2, etc....lots of schools, lots of scholarships, lots of championships....but again they don’t want to mention the women’s field hockey beneficiary or the men’s water polo championships, etc, etc....let alone Howard University, Fordham, Cal State Los Angeles, and hundreds of other schools.  It is the the 1%, which already those guys are getting a massively great deal and a decent chunk of them get a lot of money when they leave.

If those guys think it is so bad, then these athletes can enroll in school like most normal people.  They can pay for their room and board, pay for their books, practice their “craft” at the rec center.  Or just go pro and get paid to play in front of 10’s of people but avoid the “exploitation” they are encountering in the current system which sets many of them up after school is done.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Nukem2

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #321 on: August 25, 2019, 12:36:05 PM »
Yup, it so massively disingenuous to suggest people are getting rich off this.  Oh sure, coaches can make a ton of money, and of course the vast majority do not....but people focus only on the coaches from two sports and only the elite coaches....they aren’t asking how much the coaches at Prairie View are making because it doesn’t serve their argument. 

And you are also correct, the money coming is in redistributed (some of these guys normally get stimulated by that word) to schools in D1, D2, etc....lots of schools, lots of scholarships, lots of championships....but again they don’t want to mention the women’s field hockey beneficiary or the men’s water polo championships, etc, etc....let alone Howard University, Fordham, Cal State Los Angeles, and hundreds of other schools.  It is the the 1%, which already those guys are getting a massively great deal and a decent chunk of them get a lot of money when they leave.

If those guys think it is so bad, then these athletes can enroll in school like most normal people.  They can pay for their room and board, pay for their books, practice their “craft” at the rec center.  Or just go pro and get paid to play in front of 10’s of people but avoid the “exploitation” they are encountering in the current system which sets many of them up after school is done.
Agreed.  So much fuss and ado about a tiny minority of elite athletes and high paid coaches who are obviously are/have been/will be doing rather well.  Just more eyes on college basketball than track and field or whatever. 
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 12:39:26 PM by Nukem2 »

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #322 on: August 25, 2019, 12:41:05 PM »
Basketball players are already getting MORE than the other student athletes.....playing in front of thousands, auditioning each day for a job that will pay them in their careers after college (99% of other student athletes don't get to be paid to play sports overseas or at home after they are done), foreign trips, first class locker rooms and training, etc, etc, etc, etc.  That's what they get for generating more revenue....better digs, better circumstances, better end results after school.

If they don't like it, go pro....there are other alternatives.  Don't destroy the entire thing to appease the 1%.

Again, what does this have to do who players profiting off their likenesses? You keep saying words without connecting them to the topic.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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And the wisdom to know the difference.

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Cheeks

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #323 on: August 25, 2019, 12:43:31 PM »
I’m all for capitalism.....school isn’t where that happens....post school it does.  Or don’t go to school at all and earn as much money as you can get...knock your socks off.  School is about learning, training, preparing.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

TAMU Garcia

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Re: Crowder & Hayward to HOF
« Reply #324 on: August 25, 2019, 01:18:58 PM »
I’m all for capitalism.....school isn’t where that happens....post school it does.  Or don’t go to school at all and earn as much money as you can get...knock your socks off.  School is about learning, training, preparing.

What does that has to do with players profiting off their likeness?
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper