Real MLB Thread

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This is how I felt when Jim Edmonds became a Cub.

God, I hated that guy... until he got a few big hits as a Cub.

Half shirts.

[JWags85]

This is how I felt when Jim Edmonds became a Cub.

God, I hated that guy... until he got a few big hits as a Cub.

There is a quote from the West Wing I always use to describe the mercurial nature of fan perception of players

"They'll like us when we win"

You bring a player over from a hated rival.  There is some groans and bitter memories...until they start winning games in your colors.  We see it with players being terrible off the field, but excelling on the field to raucous cheers.  Not to be political, but Ive made the argument about the first player in the big 4 major sports to come out while still playing, it will be a hot button issue unless or until he's a star and most fans would completely forget about it. 

Different sport, but it was Dellavadova for me.  I absolutely hated the clown and how he played in Cleveland, but I was constantly screaming for him to get minutes in the 2018 playoffs and lauding how the team played better with him over Bledsoe.

[tower912]

Chelios as a Red Wing.  Jordan became a Rodman fan when Rodman wasn't with the Pistons guarding him.   

[Lennys Tap]

LOL.  OK.  You took a topic about AJ and made it about Cheeks and Crean. 

He's right when he says "It's funny how much space I occupy in your brain."

If you read my post you would know that the majority of it was about AJ - what a smart player he was, what an awesome leader of the 2005 World Champs he was, what an excellent baseball color man he is, etc., etc.,

A brief mention of Chico the Hypocrite because he was insisting to buck that being a douche is now a bad thing after writing volumes about how great some other douche was.

But by all means keep monitoring the situation - nobody better to judge than the guy who has been embroiled in more lengthy battles on Scoop than anyone not named Chico and who has left here for good twice only to return under a different nom de plume.

[Lennys Tap]

This is how I felt when Jim Edmonds became a Cub.

God, I hated that guy... until he got a few big hits as a Cub.

Of course. It's called being a fan. How many fans do you know that only root for the two or three guys that they know are the "good guys" on their team?

[MU82]

AJ was an interesting guy.

He was hated in San Fran his one year there. A couple pitchers refused to work with him. He went to Chicago the following season with that reputation ... but he actually was quite popular with the White Sox. They had a loosey-goosey clubhouse with "good guy" leaders like Konerko and Buehrle, and a manager who didn't give a crap about who had what kind of personality.

One of my favorite Ozzie Guillen quotes was: "If you play against him, you hate him. If you play with him, you hate him a little less." Fact is, though, Ozzie liked him quite a bit.

It helped that the White Sox won right away after he joined them, and he was a big reason why. He emerged as a leader on that team, which nobody would have expected. By and large, White Sox fans loved him.

A few Twins pitchers said they actually liked AJ a lot -- they felt he always had their backs. Michael Barrett ... he liked AJ quite a bit less. Barrett wasn't much of a catcher, but Cubs fans gave him a long leash because they loved that he clocked AJ.

As I said, an interesting guy.

Back when he was a Bad Boy, Dennis Rodman had physically tried to injure Scottie Pippen and other Bulls. In that regard, he was miles worse than AJ (or Edmunds, for that matter). And yet Bulls fans came to accept him and, for many, to love him.

Face it ... most of us cheer for the uniform shirt.

[TallTitan34]

Half shirts.

And playing too shallow to make the amazing play that otherwise would be routine.

[buckchuckler]

I'm gonna tip a cap to myself and say that even though I was a kid, I never rooted for Albert Belle when he was on the Sox.  In fact, I don't have a single memory of him on the Sox even though I know he had a monster year. 

[JWags85]

I'm gonna tip a cap to myself and say that even though I was a kid, I never rooted for Albert Belle when he was on the Sox.  In fact, I don't have a single memory of him on the Sox even though I know he had a monster year.

Ive always wondered if Albert Belle has/had undiagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder.  He's quite intelligent, a very good student, National Honor Society in HS, Eagle Scout, had an offer to go to the AF Academy.  I remember his contract with the White Sox was clever to keep him tracking with the top 3 highest paid players in baseball.  But he was just a jackass with a horrific temper and mood with no remorse for it.  Its no surprise that some of the traits carried on post-retirement.

[Lennys Tap]

AJ was an interesting guy.

He was hated in San Fran his one year there. A couple pitchers refused to work with him. He went to Chicago the following season with that reputation ... but he actually was quite popular with the White Sox. They had a loosey-goosey clubhouse with "good guy" leaders like Konerko and Buehrle, and a manager who didn't give a crap about who had what kind of personality.

One of my favorite Ozzie Guillen quotes was: "If you play against him, you hate him. If you play with him, you hate him a little less." Fact is, though, Ozzie liked him quite a bit.

It helped that the White Sox won right away after he joined them, and he was a big reason why. He emerged as a leader on that team, which nobody would have expected. By and large, White Sox fans loved him.

A few Twins pitchers said they actually liked AJ a lot -- they felt he always had their backs. Michael Barrett ... he liked AJ quite a bit less. Barrett wasn't much of a catcher, but Cubs fans gave him a long leash because they loved that he clocked AJ.

As I said, an interesting guy.

Back when he was a Bad Boy, Dennis Rodman had physically tried to injure Scottie Pippen and other Bulls. In that regard, he was miles worse than AJ (or Edmunds, for that matter). And yet Bulls fans came to accept him and, for many, to love him.

Face it ... most of us cheer for the uniform shirt.

All well said, Mike.

As for Barrett, my recollection is he was at fault - he blocked the plate, AJ bowled him over (both clean and legal then). Barrett dropped the ball (if he ever really had it), AJ stepped hard on home and Barrett (embarrassed?) sucker punched AJ. I think Barrett was on the downside of a mediocre career that fell off of a cliff after the incident.

[Cheeks]

This is how I felt when Jim Edmonds became a Cub.

God, I hated that guy... until he got a few big hits as a Cub.

There have been guys on my teams that I just absolutely refuse to cheer for, simply cannot do it....ever. 

[Cheeks]

Could we do a similar vote?

You said you had me on ignore a few weeks ago....what happened?

[Dr. Blackheart]

AJ's teams won wherever he went. I'd much rather have a winner like AJ than a head case like Milton Bradley

[Cheeks]

AJ's teams won wherever he went. I'd much rather have a winner like AJ than a head case like Milton Bradley

What?  In fact the Red Sox imploded when he went there and it was one of the reasons why the Red Sox teammates went to management to get him off the team.   He did not win wherever he went.  The Braves were terrible with him.  Nearly half of his career with the White Sox were on losing teams.  Let's not oversell this.  Look, he was a good player, crafty, and an epic douche, dirty.  He won that moniker from his fellow peers hands down.  And Milton Bradley, also a douche....and yes I would rather have Pyrzinski instead of Bradley, too.  I can think of 15 other catchers in the last 20 years I'd rather have than Pyrzinksi who weren't douches and more than capable players.

Now, back to the thread....I was a bit surprised so many of you had never heard of this unwritten rule, especially with Pyrzinski being one of the main jerks that violated it so often.

[MU82]

All well said, Mike.

As for Barrett, my recollection is he was at fault - he blocked the plate, AJ bowled him over (both clean and legal then). Barrett dropped the ball (if he ever really had it), AJ stepped hard on home and Barrett (embarrassed?) sucker punched AJ. I think Barrett was on the downside of a mediocre career that fell off of a cliff after the incident.

Your recollection is excellent, Lenny. AJ actually slapped the plate with his hand, and Barrett was definitely embarrassed, and he sucker-punched AJ.

Barrett went on to get into a fight with Zambrano, who basically kicked Barrett's arse in the Cubbie clubhouse after Barrett confronted him. The Cubs felt they had no choice but to trade Barrett, who was a lousy catcher but had a few OK years as a batter.

Barrett was another interesting guy. Actually, quite soft-spoken and mellow ... but he could go bonkers at a moment's notice.

Back to AJ ... he was mostly accepted by the Twins and the White Sox despite his occasional arseholery, and both teams won a lot with him playing a pretty key role. The other teams he was on were not as tolerant of his shtick and he became a pariah in those clubhouses.

All in all, it was a lot easier to believe that the White Sox accepted Pierzynski than the Bulls accepting Rodman.

[Cheeks]

Top 5 in MLB in RBIs since 2012.

4th is Pujols.....I was rather shocked to see that.  Guy is on a tear of late and looks relaxed for first time in a long time.

[🏀]

Top 5 in MLB in RBIs since 2012.

4th is Pujols.....I was rather shocked to see that.  Guy is on a tear of late and looks relaxed for first time in a long time.

Worthless stat.

[Cheeks]

Worthless stat.

If so, they wouldn't keep it....thus would not be worth keeping....considering they still keep it, I'm going to go against your opinion on this one.  It's not the end all be all stat, and I am not arguing that anyway.

I realize people don't love it like they used to, but if so worthless, please end the Triple Crown talk forever since 1/3 of it is based on a "worthless" stat.

[cheebs09]

If so, they wouldn't keep it....thus would not be worth keeping....considering they still keep it, I'm going to go against your opinion on this one.  It's not the end all be all stat, and I am not arguing that anyway.

I realize people don't love it like they used to, but if so worthless, please end the Triple Crown talk forever since 1/3 of it is based on a "worthless" stat.

You could argue 2/3's is a worthless stat. Nostalgia plays a big part in these things being relevant.

[CTWarrior]

Worthless stat.

It is not a completely worthless stat, but it certainly is too context driven to have the worth that is generally accorded it.  I suspect that with Trout and his .420+ OBP and speed in front of him, Albert gets a lot more RBI opportunities than your average guy, just like guys who batted behind Rickey Henderson tended to get a lot of RBIs.  Pujols is an all time great, but he is a replacement level guy now, no matter how many RBIs he gets.

[MU82]

There are a lot of "stats" that are pretty comical, especially the "combo stats" that teams love to tout in their press notes and ESPN likes to parrot.

So-And-So is only the fourth player in MLB history to record three months of 12 HR, 24 RBIs and 12 steals in a single season.

Dis Guy is the first NBA player in 40 years to average 25 ppg, 8 rpg and 7 apg.

Dat Guy is just the fifth college football player since World War II to rush for 1,200 yards and catch passes for 600 yards while averaging 5.5 yards per carry.

Those aren't "milestones." They are just numbers that some PR person thought sounded cool together.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

There are a lot of "stats" that are pretty comical, especially the "combo stats" that teams love to tout in their press notes and ESPN likes to parrot.

So-And-So is only the fourth player in MLB history to record three months of 12 HR, 24 RBIs and 12 steals in a single season.

Dis Guy is the first NBA player in 40 years to average 25 ppg, 8 rpg and 7 apg.

Dat Guy is just the fifth college football player since World War II to rush for 1,200 yards and catch passes for 600 yards while averaging 5.5 yards per carry.

Those aren't "milestones." They are just numbers that some PR person thought sounded cool together.

I thought he was banned?

[buckchuckler]

Why didn't the brewers make this an afternoon game?

[Lennys Tap]

You could argue 2/3's is a worthless stat. Nostalgia plays a big part in these things being relevant.

Yep - BA and RBIs are borderline worthless and can be very misleading as to a player's worth.

Albert Pujols was once a great player, one of the best right hand hitters in the games' history. But he's pretty much a joke now. He hasn't had a positive combined WAR since 2015 and may be the slowest man in baseball (love to see a race between him and Yadi Molina - they could time it with a sun dial). Should be kickin' back at the pool and playing 12" softball one night a week.

[WarriorDad]

Counsel did not impress me during the NLCS last year.  Pitching changes and use of Hader were overthought.