MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Jockey on August 13, 2019, 12:40:26 AM
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Looking for opinions on Wild Card predictions.
As flawed as the Cubs are, I still think they win the Central. That leaves Nats, Mets, Phil’s, cards, and Brewers to battle for WC. I’m going with Nats and cards, even though it wouldn’t surprise me to see ant “contender” go on an 8 game losing bender.
In the AL, I think Boston is finished. The loser in the Central and TB are my picks.
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Looking for opinions on Wild Card predictions.
As flawed as the Cubs are, I still think they win the Central. That leaves Nats, Mets, Phil’s, cards, and Brewers to battle for WC. I’m going with Nats and cards, even though it wouldn’t surprise me to see ant “contender” go on an 8 game losing bender.
In the AL, I think Boston is finished. The loser in the Central and TB are my picks.
I agree on AL TB and As for that last spot I so admire how Billy B seems to always cobble together a late contender with relatively zero money But TB has more favorable schedule they made a few trade deadline tweaks and A’s just won’t get there. Of course I see my Astros in NLCS at a minimum If all stay healthy we are best on paper
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I agree on AL TB and As for that last spot I so admire how Billy B seems to always cobble together a late contender with relatively zero money But TB has more favorable schedule they made a few trade deadline tweaks and A’s just won’t get there. Of course I see my Astros in NLCS at a minimum If all stay healthy we are best on paper
Stros in the NLCS would be very impressive.
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The nl central is shaping up to have an exciting ending. Maybe the Cubs can petition the mlb to only play home games?
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Looking for opinions on Wild Card predictions.
As flawed as the Cubs are, I still think they win the Central. That leaves Nats, Mets, Phil’s, cards, and Brewers to battle for WC. I’m going with Nats and cards, even though it wouldn’t surprise me to see ant “contender” go on an 8 game losing bender.
In the AL, I think Boston is finished. The loser in the Central and TB are my picks.
I agree the Cubs are likely to carry the division. Even if the Brewers would somehow manage to pull off the wildcard, it feels like they just don't have the horses (or pitching) to do it this year.
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I agree on AL TB and As for that last spot I so admire how Billy B seems to always cobble together a late contender with relatively zero money But TB has more favorable schedule they made a few trade deadline tweaks and A’s just won’t get there. Of course I see my Astros in NLCS at a minimum If all stay healthy we are best on paper
I’m going to have to disagree with you on the Stros.....they have the pitching, enough hitting, but the league they just don’t have.
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The nl central is shaping up to have an exciting ending. Maybe the Cubs can petition the mlb to only play home games?
And only if the weather is just right.
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Maybe this will be Cleveland's year, with expectations low for them compared to the Astros and Yankees. They can really hit, and pitching isn't half-bad.
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I agree the Cubs are likely to carry the division. Even if the Brewers would somehow manage to pull off the wildcard, it feels like they just don't have the horses (or pitching) to do it this year.
'Bout how I see it.
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Stros in the NLCS would be very impressive.
Oops ....Sorry ...How about ALCS lol
Astro fans spent decades pursuing NL glory ...It is still hard at times to get used to this AL thing
We all live in Ned Flanders Hell:
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-trp-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=trp&p=simpson+episode+hell+astros+in+american+league#id=1&vid=be89432f1f1faf3709eac67a765d4441&action=click
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Oops ....Sorry ...How about ALCS lol
Astro fans spent decades pursuing NL glory ...It is still hard at times to get used to this AL thing
We all live in Ned Flanders Hell:
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-trp-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=trp&p=simpson+episode+hell+astros+in+american+league#id=1&vid=be89432f1f1faf3709eac67a765d4441&action=click
You get to gloat this year, Hou. Again. I think your 'Stros are clearly the best team in either league.
Doesn't mean they will win it all, but I wouldn't put my money elsewhere.
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The Cardinals are coming, tra la tra la!
Still think the Cardinals could win the division. Have the best pitching of three NL Central contenders. The bats are awakening and both Ozuma and Molina are back in the line-up. If Carpenter begins to hit as well, this team could be explosive.
Cardinals do suffer from the same problem the Cubs do -- unbeatable at home, practically winless on the road.
I like the Brewers a lot. Counsell has done a great job. Saw them Saturday and they looked like a disciplined, efficient team. But, that pitching... yuck!
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The Cardinals are coming, tra la tra la!
Still think the Cardinals could win the division. Have the best pitching of three NL Central contenders. The bats are awakening and both Ozuma and Molina are back in the line-up. If Carpenter begins to hit as well, this team could be explosive.
Cardinals do suffer from the same problem the Cubs do -- unbeatable at home, practically winless on the road.
I like the Brewers a lot. Counsell has done a great job. Saw them Saturday and they looked like a disciplined, efficient team. But, that pitching... yuck!
The Brewers are absolutely terrible. There’s very little to like about them. Average offense, average defense, bad starting pitching, terrible bullpen. The only thing to like about them is the division they play in is garbage.
You’ve claimed the Cardinals are coming twice now. It quickly turned bad for you. Maybe the third time’s a charm.
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Cards and Cubs are tied in loss column, though Cubs have a 1-game lead by virtue of having played 2 more games (which they won).
Cubs and Cardinals meet in 7 of the season's last 10 games, with the season ending on a 3-game series in St. Louis. Could come down to that, which would be fun.
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The Brewers are absolutely terrible. There’s very little to like about them. Average offense, average defense, bad starting pitching, terrible bullpen. The only thing to like about them is the division they play in is garbage.
You’ve claimed the Cardinals are coming twice now. It quickly turned bad for you. Maybe the third time’s a charm.
Last night was a gut punch. I would have kept Albers in (said it when they pulled him). He’s been one of our best relievers lately and Hader has been having trouble keeping it in the park. 7;homers in his last 15 innings I believe.
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Last night was a gut punch. I would have kept Albers in (said it when they pulled him). He’s been one of our best relievers lately and Hader has been having trouble keeping it in the park. 7;homers in his last 15 innings I believe.
Yep. A loss last night was fine. Win today and a split with the Twins gives you a 6-2 homestand. But to have a late inning rally and blow it is very painful. Unfortunately, not the first time that's happened this season.
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You’ve claimed the Cardinals are coming twice now. It quickly turned bad for you. Maybe the third time’s a charm.
I see the baseball world through glasses with a shadow image of a redbird on a baseball bat. I'm optimistic but as I noted, the team can't win on the road to save its life.
Third is a time charm Brother Wade.
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What the Cardinals do have as of this week is 19 of their final 46 games against teams with winning records. This includes a current stretch of 24 out of the next 33 games beginning this week vs below .500 teams. Those 9 games vs teams with a winning record? All of them are vs the Brewers. The Brewers meanwhile are playing 23 straight (beginning with the Twins this week) against teams with a winning record.
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If.....
Gleyber Torres hit HRs at the same rate against all teams as he does against Baltimore, he would end up with 182 HRs
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What the Cardinals do have as of this week is 19 of their final 46 games against teams with winning records. This includes a current stretch of 24 out of the next 33 games beginning this week vs below .500 teams. Those 9 games vs teams with a winning record? All of them are vs the Brewers. The Brewers meanwhile are playing 23 straight (beginning with the Twins this week) against teams with a winning record.
I made a similar post on the Brewers sub-reddit about a long stretch against under .500 teams in June. We went something like 10-17. I blame myself.
Don't assume a long stretch against mostly losing teams is a gimme.
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I think the Brewers just need to be in spitting distance as of September 15th. They close out with 4 series against teams that will have likely been eliminated already. Meanwhile, the Cubs and Cardinals play two series against each other, and the Cards play two series against other wild card teams.
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I made a similar post on the Brewers sub-reddit about a long stretch against under .500 teams in June. We went something like 10-17. I blame myself.
Don't assume a long stretch against mostly losing teams is a gimme.
I don’t. Things can and do change all of the time. None of the three top teams in the division are what I would call strong. The Cardinals biggest challenge is offense and scoring runs. Bullpen is a strength. This season they have been strong against bad teams and close to .500 against winning record teams. It’s not one of their stronger teams. But that doesn’t always guarantee success or no success. Their 2006 team won 83 games (many later in season too) and won the World Series. While, their 2004 and 2005 teams were 105 win type teams and didn’t win a title. Their 2011 title team had a mix.
Many of their fans wish they still had former team exec Jeff Luhnow (Houston) but St. Louis isn’t the kind of franchise that would tank seasons for picks like what happened in Houston and Chicago. They are big on trying to be competitive every year. They need a few big hitters this year. We’ll see what happens. I always felt turning down Francona to hire Matheny a few years back was a mistake as well. But they often find a way to be in the mix many seasons.
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I don’t. Things can and do change all of the time. None of the three top teams in the division are what I would call strong. The Cardinals biggest challenge is offense and scoring runs. Bullpen is a strength. This season they have been strong against bad teams and close to .500 against winning record teams. It’s not one of their stronger teams. But that doesn’t always guarantee success or no success. Their 2006 team won 83 games (many later in season too) and won the World Series. While, their 2004 and 2005 teams were 105 win type teams and didn’t win a title. Their 2011 title team had a mix.
Many of their fans wish they still had former team exec Jeff Luhnow (Houston) but St. Louis isn’t the kind of franchise that would tank seasons for picks like what happened in Houston and Chicago. They are big on trying to be competitive every year. They need a few big hitters this year. We’ll see what happens. I always felt turning down Francona to hire Matheny a few years back was a mistake as well. But they often find a way to be in the mix many seasons.
At least they got his spreadsheets.
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Cubbies asses being handed to 'im by Phils, hey?
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At least they got his spreadsheets.
Chris Correa. He worked closely with Luhnow in scouting. Luhnow has had his share of enemies and is at minimum polarizing. Luhnow’s been accused of stealing The Nix method among other proprietary baseball info by others, and long time other MLB team complaints from stealing signs to other things, going so far as the Red Sox having someone removed from the ALCS a few years back.
His first several Astro teams were winning 50 plus games per year, slashing payroll, building picks, farm system, etc...for down the road success. And in part because he is good they have had success. The Cubs did that as well. That strategy just wouldn’t go over in the St. Louis market.
Jeff Luhnow had zero baseball experience prior to St. Louis. He got the job due to being friends with the owner’s son-in-law. He learned a lot there under Walt Jocketty, John Mozeliak, others, and he did well. Walt Jocketty was a good GM but of a different era with different philosophies than Luhnow. The hybrid of both was John Mozeliak who was brought in by Jocketty 8 years prior to Luhnow and still sits as President after being long time GM. Mo did a lot of good things over the years. But when you are the 2nd winningest MLB franchise in history, patience only runs so long. The Cardinals’ team success at different levels, and Luhnow’s work earned him opportunities and he landed at Houston.
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I don’t. Things can and do change all of the time. None of the three top teams in the division are what I would call strong. The Cardinals biggest challenge is offense and scoring runs. Bullpen is a strength. This season they have been strong against bad teams and close to .500 against winning record teams. It’s not one of their stronger teams. But that doesn’t always guarantee success or no success. Their 2006 team won 83 games (many later in season too) and won the World Series. While, their 2004 and 2005 teams were 105 win type teams and didn’t win a title. Their 2011 title team had a mix.
Many of their fans wish they still had former team exec Jeff Luhnow (Houston) but St. Louis isn’t the kind of franchise that would tank seasons for picks like what happened in Houston and Chicago. They are big on trying to be competitive every year. They need a few big hitters this year. We’ll see what happens. I always felt turning down Francona to hire Matheny a few years back was a mistake as well. But they often find a way to be in the mix many seasons.
::)
"Best fans in baseball"
"Play the right way"
Yada yada yada
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"Best fans in baseball"
"Play the right way"
Yada yada yada
Those are not things that originated by the team nor its fans. Take it up with some National Media and opponents and their fans and media. That's where those types of things came from. Those bothered by it are often fans of divisional opponents. All teams have good, bad, indifferent fans. And there are many different ways to win. They've had a lot of success and those types of things come with the territory of any frequently successful team.
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Albert Pujols all time hits leader foreign born player achieved tonight.
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::)
"Best fans in baseball"
"Play the right way"
Yada yada yada
What'd he say that was incorrect?
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What'd he say that was incorrect?
Nothing.
St. Louis may not be the absolute best fans in baseball, but its one of the few towns in America where baseball reigns supreme. There's no NFL football (in no small measure because the NFL does not like to be second fiddle to anyone), there's no NBA and only the NHL with which to compete. College sports locally and Missouri? I guess that's what you call Mizzou. The Illini have, lucky them, Lovie!
Cardinal fans aren't like Cub fans. While they know their team won't win every year, they expect everyone from the President of the team to the batboy to try to win. Doing a dump like the Cubs, Marlins, Astros and lots of other teams have done would, as noted elsewhere in this post, be fatal in St. Louis. If any Cardinal general manager sold off the talent, there would not be 1,000 people per night at Busch. The Baltimore Orioles of 2019, with their proud tradition and now awful team, we are definitely not.
To be loveable losers and go 108 years without a World Championship is NOT in our DNA.
Cubs fans, who would turn out 30,000 strong if the team put the Jesse White Tumblers on the field, often diss Cardinal fans for being fair weather fans. "We're real fans who support our team year in and year out," Cub fans often say. "Bahhh," we say back. "We have expectations. Our ballpark used to be one of the seven great pre-cast wonders of the world. The summer heat in St.Louis is miserable. We go for the baseball. We expect good baseball because, candidly, that's most of the sports scene in St. Louis."
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Nothing.
St. Louis may not be the absolute best fans in baseball, but its one of the few towns in America where baseball reigns supreme. There's no NFL football (in no small measure because the NFL does not like to be second fiddle to anyone), there's no NBA and only the NHL with which to compete. College sports locally and Missouri? I guess that's what you call Mizzou. The Illini have, lucky them, Lovie!
Cardinal fans aren't like Cub fans. While they know their team won't win every year, they expect everyone from the President of the team to the batboy to try to win. Doing a dump like the Cubs, Marlins, Astros and lots of other teams have done would, as noted elsewhere in this post, be fatal in St. Louis. If any Cardinal general manager sold off the talent, there would not be 1,000 people per night at Busch. The Baltimore Orioles of 2019, with their proud tradition and now awful team, we are definitely not.
To be loveable losers and go 108 years without a World Championship is NOT in our DNA.
Cubs fans, who would turn out 30,000 strong if the team put the Jesse White Tumblers on the field, often diss Cardinal fans for being fair weather fans. "We're real fans who support our team year in and year out," Cub fans often say. "Bahhh," we say back. "We have expectations. Our ballpark used to be one of the seven great pre-cast wonders of the world. The summer heat in St.Louis is miserable. We go for the baseball. We expect good baseball because, candidly, that's most of the sports scene in St. Louis."
I feel like this is Webster’s definition of a fair weather fan.
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Nothing.
St. Louis may not be the absolute best fans in baseball, but its one of the few towns in America where baseball reigns supreme. There's no NFL football (in no small measure because the NFL does not like to be second fiddle to anyone), there's no NBA and only the NHL with which to compete. College sports locally and Missouri? I guess that's what you call Mizzou. The Illini have, lucky them, Lovie!
Cardinal fans aren't like Cub fans. While they know their team won't win every year, they expect everyone from the President of the team to the batboy to try to win. Doing a dump like the Cubs, Marlins, Astros and lots of other teams have done would, as noted elsewhere in this post, be fatal in St. Louis. If any Cardinal general manager sold off the talent, there would not be 1,000 people per night at Busch. The Baltimore Orioles of 2019, with their proud tradition and now awful team, we are definitely not.
To be loveable losers and go 108 years without a World Championship is NOT in our DNA.
Cubs fans, who would turn out 30,000 strong if the team put the Jesse White Tumblers on the field, often diss Cardinal fans for being fair weather fans. "We're real fans who support our team year in and year out," Cub fans often say. "Bahhh," we say back. "We have expectations. Our ballpark used to be one of the seven great pre-cast wonders of the world. The summer heat in St.Louis is miserable. We go for the baseball. We expect good baseball because, candidly, that's most of the sports scene in St. Louis."
Respectfully this isn’t accurate and I disagree.
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What'd he say that was incorrect?
I didn’t say he was or wasn’t. I merely mentioned the origin of those types of quotes.
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In the NL Central, if the Cards, Cubs or Brewers can put together 2 good weeks -- go 10-3 or the like -- will take total control. And a team that has 2 bad weeks ... probably time to stick a fork in them. Should be an interesting 6 weeks to the finish line.
Cubs would seem to be the pretty heavy favorites with that rotation (before they started giving up 10 runs every other game, anyway) and a solid everyday lineup that includes a former MVP and another near-MVP ... but there's something about the Cardinals that makes me want to pick them.
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In the NL Central, if the Cards, Cubs or Brewers can put together 2 good weeks -- go 10-3 or the like -- will take total control. And a team that has 2 bad weeks ... probably time to stick a fork in them. Should be an interesting 6 weeks to the finish line.
Cubs would seem to be the pretty heavy favorites with that rotation (before they started giving up 10 runs every other game, anyway) and a solid everyday lineup that includes a former MVP and another near-MVP ... but there's something about the Cardinals that makes me want to pick them.
It's the fans.
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It's the fans.
Re: your sig...TT said Devante. Don't think he was talking about Davante there.
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Re: your sig...TT said Devante. Don't think he was talking about Davante there.
Per usual, I'm lost.
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Respectfully this isn’t accurate and I disagree.
Respectfully, it's OK to disagree but I question what's inaccurate. Specifically:
1) To Cardinal Nation, there is baseball and then .... I guess Blues Hockey right now is really hot.
2) Do you really think Cardinal Nation would tolerate the level of mediocrity that Cub fans have tolerated since the 1940s? We had a couple of bad decades in the 1950s, 1970s and for parts of the 1980s and 1990s. At times in the late 1980s, the team was positively awful. The latter was because the Brewery didn't care after Gussie died. The natives were very restless. The result was new ownership and Tony LaRussa!
3) The Cubs record before 2016 was clear. They were marketed as lovable losers. Check it out. There were some better than average teams (1969, 1984, 1998, 2003, 2007, 2008) but there was a clear lack of sustained success. During the Tribune ownership, the Cubs were a $20 million investment in programming about 160 days a year on WGN-TV and radio. The record was only meaningful if it put more butts in seats, more eyes on WGN and new revenue that met an internal hurdle rate.
4) Cub fans over and over have told me that I was a fair weather fan. If having expectations is fair weather, I plead guilty. But like many Cardinal fans, I've lived and died with the team since my youth. I've been disappointed that the Cardinals have not been in the playoffs since 2015 and that awful divisional series, but I remain hopeful this year's team will break the spell -- and likely lose to the Dodgers! ;D
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Nothing.
St. Louis may not be the absolute best fans in baseball, but its one of the few towns in America where baseball reigns supreme. There's no NFL football (in no small measure because the NFL does not like to be second fiddle to anyone), there's no NBA and only the NHL with which to compete. College sports locally and Missouri? I guess that's what you call Mizzou. The Illini have, lucky them, Lovie!
Cardinal fans aren't like Cub fans. While they know their team won't win every year, they expect everyone from the President of the team to the batboy to try to win. Doing a dump like the Cubs, Marlins, Astros and lots of other teams have done would, as noted elsewhere in this post, be fatal in St. Louis. If any Cardinal general manager sold off the talent, there would not be 1,000 people per night at Busch. The Baltimore Orioles of 2019, with their proud tradition and now awful team, we are definitely not.
To be loveable losers and go 108 years without a World Championship is NOT in our DNA.
Cubs fans, who would turn out 30,000 strong if the team put the Jesse White Tumblers on the field, often diss Cardinal fans for being fair weather fans. "We're real fans who support our team year in and year out," Cub fans often say. "Bahhh," we say back. "We have expectations. Our ballpark used to be one of the seven great pre-cast wonders of the world. The summer heat in St.Louis is miserable. We go for the baseball. We expect good baseball because, candidly, that's most of the sports scene in St. Louis."
This is the very definition of fair weather fan. Yes, winning teams draw more butts in the seats, but if Cardinal Nation (TM) is as good of a fan base as you claim, they should be there through thick and thin.
Also made an edit to an incorrect sentence. 8-)
Any town that puts that fake-ass cheese on their pizza and claim it's good has no right to judge anyone or anything.
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This is the very definition of fair weather fan. Yes, winning teams draw more butts in the seats, but if Cardinal Nation (TM) is as good of a fan base as you claim, they should be there through thick and thin.
Also made an edit to an incorrect sentence. 8-)
Any town that puts that fake-ass cheese on their pizza and claim it's good has no right to judge anyone or anything.
Their toasted ravioli is pretty dang good though.
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This is the very definition of fair weather fan. Yes, winning teams draw more butts in the seats, but if Cardinal Nation (TM) is as good of a fan base as you claim, they should be there through thick and thin.
Also made an edit to an incorrect sentence. 8-)
Any town that puts that fake-ass cheese on their pizza and claim it's good has no right to judge anyone or anything.
Name me one team in any sport other than the NFL that draws the same number of fans regardless of whether the team is good or bad.
Perhaps we are misunderstanding something. If ownership takes fans for granted, they pay for it in St. Louis. They don't in Chicago, which is why there was a 108 year World Championship drought. If I'm going to plop $35.00 to $100.00 on a baseball seat and go to the trouble of traveling to the stadium and back, I want at least a reasonable chance my team will win. I know they won't always win -- that's baseball -- but geez, winning makes a fan feel good.
Let me take this away from the Cardinal/Cub rivalry for a moment. Look at Miami. Ostensibly, Miami should be one of the best baseball towns in America. New stadium. Population that has a baseball heritage behind it. Big metro area. But attendance is off-the-charts bad. In fact, the Marlins draw far worse than any other team in baseball. Why? Because every time the team gets good, there's a payroll dump. The fans can't get too excited because as soon as the players get good, they are sold. Derek Jeter et al are badly undercapitalized and that makes talent acquisition -- the raw material of baseball -- almost impossible.
Are the fans in Kansas City fair weather fans? Or are they simply tired of losing 20 out of 24 years?
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Name me one team in any sport other than the NFL that draws the same number of fans regardless of whether the team is good or bad.
Perhaps we are misunderstanding something. If ownership takes fans for granted, they pay for it in St. Louis. They don't in Chicago, which is why there was a 108 year World Championship drought. If I'm going to plop $35.00 to $100.00 on a baseball seat and go to the trouble of traveling to the stadium and back, I want at least a reasonable chance my team will win. I know they won't always win -- that's baseball -- but geez, winning makes a fan feel good.
Let me take this away from the Cardinal/Cub rivalry for a moment. Look at Miami. Ostensibly, Miami should be one of the best baseball towns in America. New stadium. Population that has a baseball heritage behind it. Big metro area. But attendance is off-the-charts bad. In fact, the Marlins draw far worse than any other team in baseball. Why? Because every time the team gets good, there's a payroll dump. The fans can't get too excited because as soon as the players get good, they are sold. Derek Jeter et al are badly undercapitalized and that makes talent acquisition -- the raw material of baseball -- almost impossible.
Are the fans in Kansas City fair weather fans? Or are they simply tired of losing 20 out of 24 years?
The Packers. A ton of college sports teams. Etc.
Miami has terrible ticket sales because you could go sit inside a baseball stadium 81 times a year or you could go to the beach. For most people the choice is the beach. It's the same as sports in LA. There have been some great pro (Rams) and college (UCLA) teams that have terrible attendance relative to the product on the field.
It's not about the winning as much as it is about the city. What is there to do in St. Louis in August? Go see the Cardinals or go see a giant piece of medal. What is there to do in Green Bay on a Sunday in December? Go watch the Packers or sit on your couch and watch the Packers.
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Name me one team in any sport other than the NFL that draws the same number of fans regardless of whether the team is good or bad.
Perhaps we are misunderstanding something. If ownership takes fans for granted, they pay for it in St. Louis. They don't in Chicago, which is why there was a 108 year World Championship drought. If I'm going to plop $35.00 to $100.00 on a baseball seat and go to the trouble of traveling to the stadium and back, I want at least a reasonable chance my team will win. I know they won't always win -- that's baseball -- but geez, winning makes a fan feel good.
Let me take this away from the Cardinal/Cub rivalry for a moment. Look at Miami. Ostensibly, Miami should be one of the best baseball towns in America. New stadium. Population that has a baseball heritage behind it. Big metro area. But attendance is off-the-charts bad. In fact, the Marlins draw far worse than any other team in baseball. Why? Because every time the team gets good, there's a payroll dump. The fans can't get too excited because as soon as the players get good, they are sold. Derek Jeter et al are badly undercapitalized and that makes talent acquisition -- the raw material of baseball -- almost impossible.
Are the fans in Kansas City fair weather fans? Or are they simply tired of losing 20 out of 24 years?
Ok. Lots going on in multiple posts. I will start with this one.
Quickly, as I’m sure and some know, the Cardinals have a big following over a long period of time. They have at minimum won every other decade since the 1800’s. The Cardinals were the first team West of the Mississippi. In the days of radio they had a a home station that could reach most states in the country. When you combine these things you get more than just a local following. Some other teams have it in other markets/sports.
1) The Cardinals had the highest local television ratings in MLB this past year. They are frequently strong.
2) They’ve had at least 3 million fans (many 3.5) in 20 of the last 21 seasons (2.9).
3) Many of the fans in attendance weekend summers, are from all over the country and beyond, including but not limited to the 8 states bordering Missouri.
Modern day Cardinal fans have not held the team accountable very much in person or on tv during mediocre seasons. The team knows as long as it is competitive, in the mix, even if that means mediocre, people will go to games, people will watch. I wouldn’t blame anyone for not paying the extra money to watch on tv, or in person, concessions, travel, all kinds of costs of today’s game, with 81 home games. If your team stinks, it doesn’t make you a fair weather fan for not going to some games. If the Cardinals keep missing the playoffs over time, their numbers will change. that won’t change as fast and as much as some other markets because of their long history, recent and distant. But it would change. The money era of sports means every fan market wants to see a winner on the field to justify costs.
The biggest reason the Cardinals and Cubs are rivals, is repeated competitive play over a long period of time. That’s how rivalries develop regardless of geography. So despite St. Louis having far greater historical team success, the teams play often, and over thousands of games, the all tome head to head record is pretty close to even. The Cubs of course get big numbers of out of town fans for their weekend summer games. WGN brought them a generation of added non-local fans from around the country as well.
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The Packers. A ton of college sports teams. Etc.
Miami has terrible ticket sales because you could go sit inside a baseball stadium 81 times a year or you could go to the beach. For most people the choice is the beach. It's the same as sports in LA. There have been some great pro (Rams) and college (UCLA) teams that have terrible attendance relative to the product on the field.
It's not about the winning as much as it is about the city. What is there to do in St. Louis in August? Go see the Cardinals or go see a giant piece of medal. What is there to do in Green Bay on a Sunday in December? Go watch the Packers or sit on your couch and watch the Packers.
The L.A. Dodgers have long been a popular draw. Big numbers, ever since relocating to Southern California. They’ve drawn 3 million plus annually 18 out of the past 20 years and have drawn 3 million often since the late 1970’s. The Lakers have had great historical attendance and viewers. The teams are good often among other things.
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Miami has terrible ticket sales because you could go sit inside a baseball stadium 81 times a year or you could go to the beach. For most people the choice is the beach. It's the same as sports in LA. There have been some great pro (Rams) and college (UCLA) teams that have terrible attendance relative to the product on the field.
Brother Wades, have you ever been to Miami in July? Or August?
It is not an either/or choice. Baseball in South Florida generally is played at night. Around 7:00 p.m., the beach is not a popular recreational choice. The sun is slowly sinking into the Everglades and the humidity is only slightly less than in a highly pressurized sauna. And if you've ever been to South Florida, you'd also know about the "no-seeums."
The baseball stadium is a retractable dome with high-powered air conditioning. It's in the Little Havana neighborhood on the site of the old Orange Bowl.
Build a good team and Marlins Stadium will rock. Build a consistently good team and Miami will be the capital of baseball!
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Build a good team and Marlins Stadium will rock. Build a consistently good team and Miami will be the capital of baseball!
I don’t think I agree. Every year, their attendance is below league average - even when winning the WS.
Maybe it would change if they put 2 or 3 goods years together, but I think it might take longer to build a tradition in a non-baseball town.
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Angels have drawn 3million per year 16 straight seasons, including last few with losing records (albeit very close to .500).
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Brother Wades, have you ever been to Miami in July? Or August?
It is not an either/or choice. Baseball in South Florida generally is played at night. Around 7:00 p.m., the beach is not a popular recreational choice. The sun is slowly sinking into the Everglades and the humidity is only slightly less than in a highly pressurized sauna. And if you've ever been to South Florida, you'd also know about the "no-seeums."
The baseball stadium is a retractable dome with high-powered air conditioning. It's in the Little Havana neighborhood on the site of the old Orange Bowl.
Build a good team and Marlins Stadium will rock. Build a consistently good team and Miami will be the capital of baseball!
I’ll take August in Miami over August in the St Louis.
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That was a bomb by Harper.
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Uhhhhhh wow
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Has that ball landed yet?
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Has that ball landed yet?
I think it hit the moon.
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Those are some of the best uniforms in baseball history too.
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While in Cooperstown, I saw a t-shirt. 'I guess there was no curse. (Chicago just sucked for 108 years)' I almost bought it.
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Respectfully, it's OK to disagree but I question what's inaccurate. Specifically:
1) To Cardinal Nation, there is baseball and then .... I guess Blues Hockey right now is really hot.
2) Do you really think Cardinal Nation would tolerate the level of mediocrity that Cub fans have tolerated since the 1940s? We had a couple of bad decades in the 1950s, 1970s and for parts of the 1980s and 1990s. At times in the late 1980s, the team was positively awful. The latter was because the Brewery didn't care after Gussie died. The natives were very restless. The result was new ownership and Tony LaRussa!
3) The Cubs record before 2016 was clear. They were marketed as lovable losers. Check it out. There were some better than average teams (1969, 1984, 1998, 2003, 2007, 2008) but there was a clear lack of sustained success. During the Tribune ownership, the Cubs were a $20 million investment in programming about 160 days a year on WGN-TV and radio. The record was only meaningful if it put more butts in seats, more eyes on WGN and new revenue that met an internal hurdle rate.
4) Cub fans over and over have told me that I was a fair weather fan. If having expectations is fair weather, I plead guilty. But like many Cardinal fans, I've lived and died with the team since my youth. I've been disappointed that the Cardinals have not been in the playoffs since 2015 and that awful divisional series, but I remain hopeful this year's team will break the spell -- and likely lose to the Dodgers! ;D
I appreciate your positivity and enthusiasm.
I just think you may be confusing that market's pro and college sports fandoms vs what yours might be.
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Brutal week for the Cubs. Their starters last 3 games: 20 IP, 2 ER/25 K/2 BB.
Loss, loss, loss. That’s tough right there.
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For some reason Bill Walton is helping to call the Sox game.
It is... well... something different. I am honestly not sure if he has ever seen a baseball game before this.
EDIT: HAHAHAH Benetti just had to explain that a play was a replay as Walton was getting excited. WTF is going on.
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For some reason Bill Walton is helping to call the Sox game.
It is... well... something different. I am honestly not sure if he has ever seen a baseball game before this.
EDIT: HAHAHAH Benetti just had to explain that a play was a replay as Walton was getting excited. WTF is going on.
Last time he did this, he asked how many innings were in a game. MLB is utterly shameless.
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Last time he did this, he asked how many innings were in a game. MLB is utterly shameless.
I have to say, it was as entertaining as could possibly be. I was cracking up the whole game.
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Brutal week for the Cubs. Their starters last 3 games: 20 IP, 2 ER/25 K/2 BB.
Loss, loss, loss. That’s tough right there.
It will be a good test of their mental fortitude.
These kinds of crushing, late-inning defeats can crush the collective soul of a team. On the flip side, those that emerge from such adversity and start winning again can be steeled against future challenges and go on to have great success.
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I have to say, it was as entertaining as could possibly be. I was cracking up the whole game.
Yeah, Walton was pure gold. A second game might be grating, but as a one off it was fantastic
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Yeah, Walton was pure gold. A second game might be grating, but as a one off it was fantastic
Another feather in Benetti’s cap. He handled Walton beautifully and was a great straight man to his absurdity
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Another feather in Benetti’s cap. He handled Walton beautifully and was a great straight man to his absurdity
Benetti is the best. I’ve been lucky to loosely befriend him since he started calling Sox games, he is the nicest person you will ever meet.
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I have to say, it was as entertaining as could possibly be. I was cracking up the whole game.
I have MLB Extra Innings, and would've fallen asleep last night watching a random West Coast game. With Walton in the booth, I watched the Sox/Angels game. He was thoroughly entertaining, (and Bennetti is a treasure).
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I have MLB Extra Innings, and would've fallen asleep last night watching a random West Coast game. With Walton in the booth, I watched the Sox/Angels game. He was thoroughly entertaining, (and Bennetti is a treasure).
So basically baseball is unwatchable unless the game’s being called by a terrible basketball announcer.
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Hader has now blown 4 out of his last 5 save opportunities.
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Benetti is the best. I’ve been lucky to loosely befriend him since he started calling Sox games, he is the nicest person you will ever meet.
You might enjoy this then
https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20190817/how-sox-broadcasters-benettis-awkward-moments-promotes-understanding-of-disabilities
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You might enjoy this then
https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20190817/how-sox-broadcasters-benettis-awkward-moments-promotes-understanding-of-disabilities
I don’t know if anyone finds this interesting or not, but I get to see Benetti a few times a year and we email each other maybe a handful of times a year. I saw him over the winter at a charity event, and was talking to him about the Awkward Moments videos, and mentioned to him that my son (now 9) was asked by his school to give a talk on living with leukemia, and I was coaching my son on public speaking with the help of Jason’s videos. My son’s talk was the second week of the baseball season, but Benetti called to wish him good luck, and asked me to video my son’s talk so I could email it to him. After I sent it to him, maybe an hour later, he sent an awesome email that I shared with my son.
He’s invited our family up to the booth before a couple games, he routinely does that for families with special needs. I don’t say any of this to name drop or anything like that, I want people to know he is legit an awesome guy.
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I don’t know if anyone finds this interesting or not, but I get to see Benetti a few times a year and we email each other maybe a handful of times a year. I saw him over the winter at a charity event, and was talking to him about the Awkward Moments videos, and mentioned to him that my son (now 9) was asked by his school to give a talk on living with leukemia, and I was coaching my son on public speaking with the help of Jason’s videos. My son’s talk was the second week of the baseball season, but Benetti called to wish him good luck, and asked me to video my son’s talk so I could email it to him. After I sent it to him, maybe an hour later, he sent an awesome email that I shared with my son.
He’s invited our family up to the booth before a couple games, he routinely does that for families with special needs. I don’t say any of this to name drop or anything like that, I want people to know he is legit an awesome guy.
Nice story, Dish.
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I don’t know if anyone finds this interesting or not, but I get to see Benetti a few times a year and we email each other maybe a handful of times a year. I saw him over the winter at a charity event, and was talking to him about the Awkward Moments videos, and mentioned to him that my son (now 9) was asked by his school to give a talk on living with leukemia, and I was coaching my son on public speaking with the help of Jason’s videos. My son’s talk was the second week of the baseball season, but Benetti called to wish him good luck, and asked me to video my son’s talk so I could email it to him. After I sent it to him, maybe an hour later, he sent an awesome email that I shared with my son.
He’s invited our family up to the booth before a couple games, he routinely does that for families with special needs. I don’t say any of this to name drop or anything like that, I want people to know he is legit an awesome guy.
That’s fantastic. His on-air delivery and cadence/approach reminds me a lot of Sean McDonoagh, which is a tremendous compliment as I think he’s in the Al Michaels pantheon of PBP greatness, but who I’ve always heard a number of great stories about. Seems like the good PBP guys are often very personable, down to earth, and great guys, which is what allows them to mesh seamlessly with “big” personalities you often get with color guys, as well as an appeal and relatability to the viewer.
As for his approach to disabilities, I couldn’t love it more. It reminds me of 2 contrasting interactions I had in my early 20s. My friend dated a girl who had an underdeveloped hand and it was a constant source of embarrassment and insecurity for her, and as a result was kind of difficult for those of us in her periphery. Despite knowing us well, she’d be reticent and self conscious, very cautious about it all (until she drank and loosened up unfortunately.) Conversely, I interviewed a young lady for a student organization I helped lead my final year of university. She had a similar condition, and she led off her interview making a joke about it, inviting any questions, and completely disarmed the group. In my experience, no matter the condition or quality that differentiates the person from the “norm”, openness, candor, and comfort is the most powerful bridge builder and educator.
What an awesome experience for your son (and he’s had many!)
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Hader has now blown 4 out of his last 5 save opportunities.
Mayger leegers kan hit da fastball. Unless Hater develops sum movement on his balls ;D and lerns how ta throw an off speed pitch, he'll continue ta get hammered. The loss of Knebel and pitching coach from last season is killin' dem, aina?
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Luckily the Nats bullpen is just as bad. What a wild game last night
/this morning
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Last night’s game was so long that Jack White left in the 3rd to go perform and still made it back to see the finish.
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Luckily the Nats bullpen is just as bad. What a wild game last night
/this morning
The Brewers sure find a way to shoot themselves in the foot over and over and over again. When Hiura threw wide in the 14th, it felt consistent with everything else I've witnessed from this team this season.
And yet, one game back. Speaks more to the fact that the NL Central should be barred from the postseason, but still...
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The Brewers sure find a way to shoot themselves in the foot over and over and over again. When Hiura threw wide in the 14th, it felt consistent with everything else I've witnessed from this team this season.
And yet, one game back. Speaks more to the fact that the NL Central should be barred from the postseason, but still...
And it makes the pissing thread a swollen prostrated trickle. No fun and it sure can be painful.
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That’s fantastic. His on-air delivery and cadence/approach reminds me a lot of Sean McDonoagh, which is a tremendous compliment as I think he’s in the Al Michaels pantheon of PBP greatness, but who I’ve always heard a number of great stories about. Seems like the good PBP guys are often very personable, down to earth, and great guys, which is what allows them to mesh seamlessly with “big” personalities you often get with color guys, as well as an appeal and relatability to the viewer.
As for his approach to disabilities, I couldn’t love it more. It reminds me of 2 contrasting interactions I had in my early 20s. My friend dated a girl who had an underdeveloped hand and it was a constant source of embarrassment and insecurity for her, and as a result was kind of difficult for those of us in her periphery. Despite knowing us well, she’d be reticent and self conscious, very cautious about it all (until she drank and loosened up unfortunately.) Conversely, I interviewed a young lady for a student organization I helped lead my final year of university. She had a similar condition, and she led off her interview making a joke about it, inviting any questions, and completely disarmed the group. In my experience, no matter the condition or quality that differentiates the person from the “norm”, openness, candor, and comfort is the most powerful bridge builder and educator.
What an awesome experience for your son (and he’s had many!)
I watched the game on Saturday because he did the game with Michael Schur, who I really like. It was a weird broadcast in that they were basically just having a conversation while the game went on, but I enjoyed it immensely. They told you the important stuff that was happening, of course. Watching a game with two interesting guys talking about the game here, about baseball in general, about the things they are doing, is much more enjoyable than listening to the color guy describe for the millionth time why a pitch was low or describe in detail what we saw with our own eyes and know already, IMO.
I read Phil Mushnick in the New York Post who basically hates every announcer since Bob Costas, but he says something repeatedly that makes sense. If you were sitting at a game with someone, would you go into the minutia of every detail? Do you think the person next to you would want to hear that? Then why say it on a broadcast?
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I watched the game on Saturday because he did the game with Michael Schur, who I really like. It was a weird broadcast in that they were basically just having a conversation while the game went on, but I enjoyed it immensely. They told you the important stuff that was happening, of course. Watching a game with two interesting guys talking about the game here, about baseball in general, about the things they are doing, is much more enjoyable than listening to the color guy describe for the millionth time why a pitch was low or describe in detail what we saw with our own eyes and know already, IMO.
I read Phil Mushnick in the New York Post who basically hates every announcer since Bob Costas, but he says something repeatedly that makes sense. If you were sitting at a game with someone, would you go into the minutia of every detail? Do you think the person next to you would want to hear that? Then why say it on a broadcast?
That Walton broadcast was obviously “out there” and fun as a one off, but I enjoyed all three Sox broadcasts this weekend because of what you described. It was two guys just having a conversation, and Benetti is really good at multitasking play by play with conversational talk. I thought Schur got more comfortable as the game went on, and I was actually disappointed when the game was over because I felt like I wanted more.
I think this kind of broadcast needs the right play by play guy (Kasper is really good at this style too), and baseball is certainly the sport that can and should experiment with this.
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The kids have spoken.
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/javier-baez-is-the-most-popular-player-at-the-little-league-world-series/c-291423462 (https://www.mlb.com/cut4/javier-baez-is-the-most-popular-player-at-the-little-league-world-series/c-291423462)
(http://www.mlb.com/assets/images/9/9/8/291604998/raw.png)
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The kids have spoken.
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/javier-baez-is-the-most-popular-player-at-the-little-league-world-series/c-291423462 (https://www.mlb.com/cut4/javier-baez-is-the-most-popular-player-at-the-little-league-world-series/c-291423462)
(http://www.mlb.com/assets/images/9/9/8/291604998/raw.png)
Most exciting player in baseball history. The tags!
I know I find guys who swing out of their shoes at 58 foot breaking balls to be incredibly fun to watch.
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Most exciting player in baseball history. The tags!
I know I find guys who swing out of their shoes at 58 foot breaking balls to be incredibly fun to watch.
If you don't find Baez fun and exciting to watch, you're a hater, plain and simple (but then again, consider the source I guess, you'd hate on Trout as being a bum if he was a Cub). I don't think he's anywhere near the player Trout is, but he has an incredible baseball mind and a fearlessness to his game, plus flair and charisma thats fun to watch and something kids are drawn to. He's like an MLB Vince Carter, except a comparatively better player in his sport. Hell, the fact that he has almost a .900 OPS despite still having a frustrating lack of plate discipline is remarkable.
And its become a running joke, I get it, but the no look tags are absolutely absurd.
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If you don't find Baez fun and exciting to watch, you're a hater, plain and simple (but then again, consider the source I guess, you'd hate on Trout as being a bum if he was a Cub). I don't think he's anywhere near the player Trout is, but he has an incredible baseball mind and a fearlessness to his game, plus flair and charisma thats fun to watch and something kids are drawn to. He's MLB Vince Carter, except a comparatively better player. Hell, the fact that he has almost a .900 OPS despite still having a frustrating lack of plate discipline is remarkable.
And its become a running joke, I get it, but the no look tags are absolutely absurd.
He's a comparatively better player than prime Vince Carter?
Other than that, agreed. Javy is fun.
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If you don't find Baez fun and exciting to watch, you're a hater, plain and simple (but then again, consider the source I guess, you'd hate on Trout as being a bum if he was a Cub). I don't think he's anywhere near the player Trout is, but he has an incredible baseball mind and a fearlessness to his game, plus flair and charisma thats fun to watch and something kids are drawn to. He's MLB Vince Carter, except a comparatively better player. Hell, the fact that he has almost a .900 OPS despite still having a frustrating lack of plate discipline is remarkable.
And its become a running joke, I get it, but the no look tags are absolutely absurd.
I'm a White Sox fan, despise the Cubs.
Anyone who doesn't think Javy Baez is an exciting and outstanding player is baseball illiterate. Period.
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He's a comparatively better player than prime Vince Carter?
Other than that, agreed. Javy is fun.
I probably phrased that bad. Javy is a better baseball player at his "prime" now, than Vince Carter was as a basketball player in his prime. Carter never made 1st team All NBA or finished top 10 in the MVP voting.
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If you don't find Baez fun and exciting to watch, you're a hater, plain and simple (but then again, consider the source I guess, you'd hate on Trout as being a bum if he was a Cub). I don't think he's anywhere near the player Trout is, but he has an incredible baseball mind and a fearlessness to his game, plus flair and charisma thats fun to watch and something kids are drawn to. He's like an MLB Vince Carter, except a comparatively better player in his sport. Hell, the fact that he has almost a .900 OPS despite still having a frustrating lack of plate discipline is remarkable.
And its become a running joke, I get it, but the no look tags are absolutely absurd.
Isn't Vince Carter a sure fire HOFer?
Late to the party and I see you addressed it, but still, that seems like sketchy logic to me.
It also may be nit picky, but an OPS of .859 is not almost .900 in my estimation. But that doesn't take too much away from your point.
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Most exciting player in baseball history. The tags!
I know I find guys who swing out of their shoes at 58 foot breaking balls to be incredibly fun to watch.
(http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Will-Ferrell-Thats-dumb.gif)
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That Walton broadcast was obviously “out there” and fun as a one off, but I enjoyed all three Sox broadcasts this weekend because of what you described. It was two guys just having a conversation, and Benetti is really good at multitasking play by play with conversational talk. I thought Schur got more comfortable as the game went on, and I was actually disappointed when the game was over because I felt like I wanted more.
I think this kind of broadcast needs the right play by play guy (Kasper is really good at this style too), and baseball is certainly the sport that can and should experiment with this.
I enjoyed the outcomes of most of the games this past weekend with PaleHoes and Halos. Walton...I watched the highlights and it was good for a bit, but not sure how 9 innings would have made that go down.
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I enjoyed the outcomes of most of the games this past weekend with PaleHoes and Halos. Walton...I watched the highlights and it was good for a bit, but not sure how 9 innings would have made that go down.
It was awesome. You wouldn't have liked it.
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Isn't Vince Carter a sure fire HOFer?
Late to the party and I see you addressed it, but still, that seems like sketchy logic to me.
It also may be nit picky, but an OPS of .859 is not almost .900 in my estimation. But that doesn't take too much away from your point.
He will be because of longevity, not because of his peak. If he retired in 2011 or so, when he stopped being a go-to guy, he wouldn't be in the convo. But he's carved out that secondary role later in his career and broke that 20,000 pt mark and is top 20 all time I believe, so he will be.
MLB is odd though. Baez is amazing and just reaching his peak, but he could easily be a guy like Morneau or Caminiti who won MVPs, Gold Gloves, strung a couple straight ASG appearances, but fell off quickly and won't sniff the HOF. Hope I'm wrong
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The kids have spoken.
https://www.mlb.com/cut4/javier-baez-is-the-most-popular-player-at-the-little-league-world-series/c-291423462 (https://www.mlb.com/cut4/javier-baez-is-the-most-popular-player-at-the-little-league-world-series/c-291423462)
Gosh, I hate the Little League World Series. I wish it would just get up and go away.
It's everything that's wrong with sports!
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It was awesome. You wouldn't have liked it.
I can see how some people are easily amused, like going to the big city for the first time and seeing tall buildings.
Walton’s thing is so old to the locals here that it just isn’t all that fresh, but I do find him mildly amusing. It was awesome...based on these clips your definition of awesome and mine are a lot different.
https://apple.news/Ahq4ZihBHQvqCBq2K40ZVtg
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Gosh, I hate the Little League World Series. I wish it would just get up and go away.
It's everything that's wrong with sports!
My oldest son participated and the boys went pretty far. Another Orange County team won the whole thing that year in Williamsport. We loved every minute of it. Not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic.
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MLB is odd though. Baez is amazing and just reaching his peak, but he could easily be a guy like Morneau or Caminiti who won MVPs, Gold Gloves, strung a couple straight ASG appearances, but fell off quickly and won't sniff the HOF. Hope I'm wrong
Well you certainty wouldn't wish debilitating concussions or death on anyone. But those are some solid reasons for careers to fall apart.
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Speaking of Mike Trout, last weekend he tied Derek Jeter in career WAR at 72.4 for 57th (for position players) all-time.
Everyone in front of him is in the Hall-of-Fame except Jeter, A-Rod, and Beltre who haven’t been on the ballot yet.
He’s 28.
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Speaking of Mike Trout, last weekend he tied Derek Jeter in career WAR at 72.4 for 57th (for position players) all-time.
Everyone in front of him is in the Hall-of-Fame except Jeter, A-Rod, and Beltre who haven’t been on the ballot yet.
He’s 28.
Almost. Larry Walker is at 72.7, not in HOF and his last year of eligibility coming up.
Just hoping we can get this guy some pitching and stop the insane path to Tommy John surgery by this club.
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Gosh, I hate the Little League World Series. I wish it would just get up and go away.
It's everything that's wrong with sports!
Agreed with one modification. It's everything that is wrong with *youth* sports.
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What are everyone's thoughts on Dan Plesac doing more Brewers games? I've heard some very polarizing takes. On the one hand, I love BA and the Brewers fans are lucky to enjoy him as long as he stays below national. But Plesac brings some Bob Uecker energy to the box.
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What are everyone's thoughts on Dan Plesac doing more Brewers games? I've heard some very polarizing takes. On the one hand, I love BA and the Brewers fans are lucky to enjoy him as long as he stays below national. But Plesac brings some Bob Uecker energy to the box.
He was terrible. Talked way too much. Made the same points over and over and over again. Said way too many brainless, "jock like" things. The problem could have been with Craig Coshun, who is a good pre and post game host, but not really that great of a play by play guy. You have to be able to fill time with conversation as a baseball announcer, and Coshun just didn't do that. I never thought I would say this but Matt Lepay really has gotten better as a substitute, but I'm sure he was taking a break before his UW duties start up in a couple of weeks.
Bill Schroeder is pretty good. He's gotten better and his chemistry with BA is wonderful.
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Old timers being old, or do they have a point?
Baseball unwatchable now?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2019/08/19/mlb-baseballs-old-timers-decry-state-modern-game/2047025001/
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Old timers being old, or do they have a point?
Baseball unwatchable now?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2019/08/19/mlb-baseballs-old-timers-decry-state-modern-game/2047025001/
I think they have a point that the game is less interesting. Besides all of the home runs and strikeouts, the pitching changes, time between pitches, etc. It's just takes too much time with little action.
But when Gossage complains about this current era of GMs and managers, the fact is that teams are winning when they go heavy analytics. So spare me the "Harvard rotisserie league" crap. And it's hard to respect old coaches like Pinella when he brags about never putting on a shift. By refusing to do that, he is sacrificing a greater chance of winning the game for the sake of...pride?? Tradition???
So I think it's fair to say some of these guys just haven't evolved with the game. But OTOH, it's OK to not like how the game has evolved.
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I think they have a point that the game is less interesting. Besides all of the home runs and strikeouts, the pitching changes, time between pitches, etc. It's just takes too much time with little action.
But when Gossage complains about this current era of GMs and managers, the fact is that teams are winning when they go heavy analytics. So spare me the "Harvard rotisserie league" crap. And it's hard to respect old coaches like Pinella when he brags about never putting on a shift. By refusing to do that, he is sacrificing a greater chance of winning the game for the sake of...pride?? Tradition???
So I think it's fair to say some of these guys just haven't evolved with the game. But OTOH, it's OK to not like how the game has evolved.
That whole article read like "old man yells at clouds". Smaller ballparks, potentially juiced ball, I get that complaint. And pace of the game is still bad. But complaining about launch angle is like all the old timers who complain about NBA players shooting too many 3s. Its been shown clearly by analytics that "small ball" is less effective in baseball, but these guys will b**ch and moan cause its different than what they grew up with.
The attendance issue is interesting, but I don't think its cause people are shifting or using less hit and runs. Its cause baseball is super regional (people dont watch many out of market teams), baseball isn't great TV for the casual fan (due to stoppages and runtime), and because MLB is draconian in the social media policy, so they don't bring in casual fans through highlights.
The last one is just baffling to me. A policy that would make Dollar Bill Wirtz beam with pride. A great play happens in the NBA and it spreads through my Twitter in minutes and everyone is talking about it. Trout does something incredible, as he often does, MAYBE I see it the next day from an official source.
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I think they have a point that the game is less interesting. Besides all of the home runs and strikeouts, the pitching changes, time between pitches, etc. It's just takes too much time with little action.
But when Gossage complains about this current era of GMs and managers, the fact is that teams are winning when they go heavy analytics. So spare me the "Harvard rotisserie league" crap. And it's hard to respect old coaches like Pinella when he brags about never putting on a shift. By refusing to do that, he is sacrificing a greater chance of winning the game for the sake of...pride?? Tradition???
So I think it's fair to say some of these guys just haven't evolved with the game. But OTOH, it's OK to not like how the game has evolved.
I understand there's nuance here, but if that was the Crux of the argument, I'd be very interested to hear the take on football.
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And as for Gossage's comment that they don't hire people with experience, you will be SHOCKED to know that by and large the age of managers has hardly changed if you compare 2019 with the four decades preceeding.
In fact, MLB had younger managers, at a younger median age in 1979 and 1989 than they do now.
2019
Oldest: Riggleman (66), Youngest: Cash (41), Median: Cash (57)
2009
Oldest: Cox (68), Youngest: Hinch (35), Median: Black (52)
1999
Oldest: McKeon (68), Youngest: Francona (40), Median: Lamont (52)
1989
Oldest: Lasorda (61), Youngest: Leyva (35), Median: Torborg (47)
1979
Oldest: Franks (65), Youngest: LaRussa (34), Median: Weaver (48)
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I understand there's nuance here, but if that was the Crux of the argument, I'd be very interested to hear the take on football.
I basically do not watch football besides my favorite team because of this. Red Zone channel on occasion, but I am bored out of my mind watching football without a real rooting interest. I suppose I need to start gambling to enjoy it.
Unfortunately for baseball, the ideal strategy (many pitchers per game, lots of strikeouts, counteracted by going for home runs) is not near the most entertaining way to play baseball.
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College football to me is way more interesting than the NFL. Much more of a variety on how teams play on both sides of the ball.
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I basically do not watch football besides my favorite team because of this. Red Zone channel on occasion, but I am bored out of my mind watching football without a real rooting interest. I suppose I need to start gambling to enjoy it.
Unfortunately for baseball, the ideal strategy (many pitchers per game, lots of strikeouts, counteracted by going for home runs) is not near the most entertaining way to play baseball.
Coming from someone who is a recovering football gambling junkie, that doesn't improve it. You still end up watching Red Zone or bouncing between multiple games. Gambling greatly broadened my knowledge of teams, how they were playing, and random games I was "aware" of how they were going in progress, but I definitely didn't sit down and watch full games that much more than I do now.
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He was terrible. Talked way too much. Made the same points over and over and over again. Said way too many brainless, "jock like" things. The problem could have been with Craig Coshun, who is a good pre and post game host, but not really that great of a play by play guy. You have to be able to fill time with conversation as a baseball announcer, and Coshun just didn't do that. I never thought I would say this but Matt Lepay really has gotten better as a substitute, but I'm sure he was taking a break before his UW duties start up in a couple of weeks.
Bill Schroeder is pretty good. He's gotten better and his chemistry with BA is wonderful.
Lepay is much better this year. Still miss BA when he's going NBA.
Would like to see MU alum Sophia Minneart get some PxP run. Think she'd be great with Rock.
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Lepay is much better this year. Still miss BA when he's going NBA.
Would like to see MU alum Sophia Minneart get some PxP run. Think she'd be great with Rock.
Based on what? Shes an on-air host and a sideline reporter. Thats like asking the drummer in the band to become the rhythm guitarist and lead singer without them ever playing either role.
I think she's very good at what she does, but PxP is an entirely different animal that takes years to master.
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Lepay is much better this year. Still miss BA when he's going NBA.
Would like to see MU alum Sophia Minneart get some PxP run. Think she'd be great with Rock.
I'm gonna be bummed when Sophia Minneart gets a national gig. She's a great on field reporter, and she's excellent with the Latino players because she can do her own translating.
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F*ckin' just wants to see more of Sophia. Just goin' 'bout it in a round 'bout wey, aina?
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F*ckin' just wants to see more of Sophia. Just goin' 'bout it in a round 'bout wey, aina?
I wouldnt disagree with your statement.
Don't want her getting too big time though. Someone might write an article about her clothes.
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I'm gonna be bummed when Sophia Minneart gets a national gig. She's a great on field reporter, and she's excellent with the Latino players because she can do her own translating.
She has really improved. I thought she was awful when she started, but has become very good at her job. Experience matters.
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Is she tight with Ma, hey?
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Time for this stupid Brewer season to be done.
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Time for this stupid Brewer season to be done.
It looks like your wish will be granted very soon.
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For as much genius as they had last year, Stearns and Counsell took a step back this season.
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I blame Mark. His season has been extremely successful.
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I blame Mark. His season has been extremely successful.
i believe mark had a pretty good season...i'm sure his bank account did pretty well this season, not to mention his "business expenses. craig didn't fair too badly either as his batting average and ERA did not waver much...his players did however. counsell is a solid manager and does very well with what he has
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The Brewers did score 4 last night. The Cardinals are 2nd in the league in games giving up 3 runs or less. (57) (Dodgers first) By contrast, The Cardinals are 13th in runs scored. Brewers are in a stretch of playing more teams with a winning record more often. The Cubs are beginning a stretch of 11 of 14 at home where they have played well this year. Still 3 division contending teams and many more in wild card contention.
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For as much genius as they had last year, Stearns and Counsell took a step back this season.
I think Counsell has done the best he could with a pitching staff and bullpen that has been a load of crap. So for that I do blame Stearns, but I also wonder about this pitching coach. Jeffress, Hader, Guerra, Peralta, Burns, etc. are significantly worse this year. Knebel and Nelson are hurt. And they couldn't keep guys like Miley who is having a really good year in Houston.
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I understand there's nuance here, but if that was the Crux of the argument, I'd be very interested to hear the take on football.
The difference is that even when there is action in baseball ( a sport I love), there is no action. A guy throwing a strike or a ball is action, but nothing really happening other than with three players.
In football, even the down 40 seconds between plays, when a play is run even if it is a no gain play, plenty of stuff is going on with every player on the field. Baseball you have 7 guys on a pitch often doing nothing other than in the ready position.
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The difference is that even when there is action in baseball ( a sport I love), there is no action. A guy throwing a strike or a ball is action, but nothing really happening other than with three players.
In football, even the down 40 seconds between plays, when a play is run even if it is a no gain play, plenty of stuff is going on with every player on the field. Baseball you have 7 guys on a pitch often doing nothing other than in the ready position.
Right. Not only that but there is usually a replay of the previous play and some sort of momentum building for the next. There are times that happens in baseball but it is much less often.
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I think Counsell has done the best he could with a pitching staff and bullpen that has been a load of crap. So for that I do blame Stearns, but I also wonder about this pitching coach. Jeffress, Hader, Guerra, Peralta, Burns, etc. are significantly worse this year. Knebel and Nelson are hurt. And they couldn't keep guys like Miley who is having a really good year in Houston.
I'm not a Brewers fan and I don't follow them closely. Are big-time fans of the Crew concerned about Hader? A year ago, there was talk that he deserved MVP votes and a lot of credit for the team being as good as it was. Now, he can't get anybody out.
Is it a blip, and he'll be great again next year? Could he be hurt? Is it overuse, not only from this season but from a full workload (including postseason) last year? Is it simply that hitters are smart and well-paid, too, and they have figured him out?
I'd be very concerned if a stud like that -- a guy who figured to be a big part of contending Brewers teams for years to come -- suddenly was getting knocked around by everybody.
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I'm not a Brewers fan and I don't follow them closely. Are big-time fans of the Crew concerned about Hader? A year ago, there was talk that he deserved MVP votes and a lot of credit for the team being as good as it was. Now, he can't get anybody out.
Is it a blip, and he'll be great again next year? Could he be hurt? Is it overuse, not only from this season but from a full workload (including postseason) last year? Is it simply that hitters are smart and well-paid, too, and they have figured him out?
I'd be very concerned if a stud like that -- a guy who figured to be a big part of contending Brewers teams for years to come -- suddenly was getting knocked around by everybody.
The fact that we’re talking about a guy who has a 3.02 ERA and a WHIP of 0.865 as someone who “can’t get anyone out” says everything about how concerned I am as a Brewers fan about him.
He’s being asked to be strictly a closer and that’s not how he should be used. And he’s often being asked to get 6-9 out saves because the Brewers have nobody in the bullpen that can get the Brewers to him with the lead. So long as Knebel comes back as the true closer and the Brewers address their bullpen next year I’m not worried at all.
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The fact that we’re talking about a guy who has a 3.02 ERA and a WHIP of 0.865 as someone who “can’t get anyone out” says everything about how concerned I am as a Brewers fan about him.
He’s being asked to be strictly a closer and that’s not how he should be used. And he’s often being asked to get 6-9 out saves because the Brewers have nobody in the bullpen that can get the Brewers to him with the lead. So long as Knebel comes back as the true closer and the Brewers address their bullpen next year I’m not worried at all.
I should have said he can't get anybody out lately.
Thanks for the answer. Clarifies it a lot.
As I said, I don't really follow your team, though I was rooting for them in the playoffs last year. Going to Brewers games was one of my favorite things to do during my MU daze -- Cooper, Molitor, Yount, Oglivie, Thomas, Lezcano, Simmons, Gantner, Money, etc ... they hit tons of HRs before anybody had ever heard of launch angle!
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Agree with wades in that now Hader is THE guy, and pretty much the only guy. Big difference from having Knebel and Jeffress and him being a three-headed monster that Counsel could mix and match. And as we all know, relievers are prone to be up and down anyway, with those few exceptions like Rivera being really, really rare.
No doubt he needs to adjust to the league which is adjusting to him, but I don't think he is another Derrick Turnbow. God, I hope not at least.
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My oldest son participated and the boys went pretty far. Another Orange County team won the whole thing that year in Williamsport. We loved every minute of it. Not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic.
Serious, Brother Cheeks.
I'm happy that your children learned an appreciation of baseball through Little League and I'm glad you and your wife enjoyed them. There's a portion of Little League that builds character, teaches children about the value of teamwork and helps them recognize what they can and cannot do! My own children played soccer and football and I saw both the best and the worst of society in those experiences.
That said, the only television programs 12 and 13 year old children should be on is Bozo's Circus in Chicago or eating an ice cream cone on the Big Screen at Miller (soon to be AmFam) Park. I find the whole notion of putting on a "world series" for 12 or 13 year olds preposterous and designed to make money for self-important adults.
My concern is that baseball, at that competitive level, stops being recreation and exercise. The pressure all too many parents put on their children -- many of whom are living their own broken dreams through their children -- is something that's way beyond expectations for a person of that young age. Winning may be important later in life, but at that age, finding yourself and your ability is far more important. I do not see how having a global baseball tournament on national television espousing virtues that, at that level, are more of a facade than a creed, fosters healthy child development. Gosh, look at everything from the use of ineligible players to recruiting players from outside an established zone in Chicago and you've got Peoples Exhibit Number 1 for my point.
Where do you think the Dave Hausers and Tim Maymons come from?
Oh, and for the record, I feel the same way about high school football and nationally competitive youth basketball. While I recognize my hard-core support for Marquette as well as other sports may be hypocritical, I'm of the belief youth sports in this country has gone way overboard.
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So are we going to have 1000+ posts on how the Cardinals should also have a retractable roof?
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Serious, Brother Cheeks.
I'm happy that your children learned an appreciation of baseball through Little League and I'm glad you and your wife enjoyed them. There's a portion of Little League that builds character, teaches children about the value of teamwork and helps them recognize what they can and cannot do! My own children played soccer and football and I saw both the best and the worst of society in those experiences.
That said, the only television programs 12 and 13 year old children should be on is Bozo's Circus in Chicago or eating an ice cream cone on the Big Screen at Miller (soon to be AmFam) Park. I find the whole notion of putting on a "world series" for 12 or 13 year olds preposterous and designed to make money for self-important adults.
My concern is that baseball, at that competitive level, stops being recreation and exercise. The pressure all too many parents put on their children -- many of whom are living their own broken dreams through their children -- is something that's way beyond expectations for a person of that young age. Winning may be important later in life, but at that age, finding yourself and your ability is far more important. I do not see how having a global baseball tournament on national television espousing virtues that, at that level, are more of a facade than a creed, fosters healthy child development. Gosh, look at everything from the use of ineligible players to recruiting players from outside an established zone in Chicago and you've got Peoples Exhibit Number 1 for my point.
Where do you think the Dave Hausers and Tim Maymons come from?
Oh, and for the record, I feel the same way about high school football and nationally competitive youth basketball. While I recognize my hard-core support for Marquette as well as other sports may be hypocritical, I'm of the belief youth sports in this country has gone way overboard.
Amen. The LLWS and Little League in general is exactly what is wrong with youth sports these days. For multiple reasons. The biggest of which is leaving late bloomers behind. It shuts out sports at too young an age for too many children.
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Serious, Brother Cheeks.
I'm happy that your children learned an appreciation of baseball through Little League and I'm glad you and your wife enjoyed them. There's a portion of Little League that builds character, teaches children about the value of teamwork and helps them recognize what they can and cannot do! My own children played soccer and football and I saw both the best and the worst of society in those experiences.
That said, the only television programs 12 and 13 year old children should be on is Bozo's Circus in Chicago or eating an ice cream cone on the Big Screen at Miller (soon to be AmFam) Park. I find the whole notion of putting on a "world series" for 12 or 13 year olds preposterous and designed to make money for self-important adults.
My concern is that baseball, at that competitive level, stops being recreation and exercise. The pressure all too many parents put on their children -- many of whom are living their own broken dreams through their children -- is something that's way beyond expectations for a person of that young age. Winning may be important later in life, but at that age, finding yourself and your ability is far more important. I do not see how having a global baseball tournament on national television espousing virtues that, at that level, are more of a facade than a creed, fosters healthy child development. Gosh, look at everything from the use of ineligible players to recruiting players from outside an established zone in Chicago and you've got Peoples Exhibit Number 1 for my point.
Where do you think the Dave Hausers and Tim Maymons come from?
Oh, and for the record, I feel the same way about high school football and nationally competitive youth basketball. While I recognize my hard-core support for Marquette as well as other sports may be hypocritical, I'm of the belief youth sports in this country has gone way overboard.
I will agree with you that the pressure was intense. Derek Deese, former offensive lineman for the 49ers was one of our coaches and as an ex Pro athlete he pushed those kids hard. It’s how he was pushed as an athlete, not all kids respond well to that. We were fortunate that the players and families got along, everyone knew their place on the team, but you are right that the dynamic gets crazy on a number of teams.
The expansion of televised youth sports is going to only get broader. New automated cameras that do s not require an operator are in use now at some high schools and the NFHS is streaming the games. Schools being added to that list along with AAU events, etc. Technology making it cost efficient to do it.
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So are we going to have 1000+ posts on how the Cardinals should also have a retractable roof?
Don't think so.
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This Castellanos guy has had a nice Opening Day the last few weeks.
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This Castellanos guy has had a nice Opening Day the last few weeks.
Amazing the motivation a good player can find playing in the thick of a playoff race instead of for a team 38 games back and on pace to lose 110 games
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He has also pointed out Wrigley has much more favorable conditions for a batter than Comerica.
I hope the +$70 million coming off the books this offseason plus TV money will allow the Cubs to resign him. He's a Boras guy though.
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Fellow Cubs fans, what are your thoughts on the Cubs managerial situation?
I'd prefer they keep Maddon. He's certainly not without his flaws, but I'd rather have him than Girardi, DeRosa, Ross, etc.
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Fellow Cubs fans, what are your thoughts on the Cubs managerial situation?
I'd prefer they keep Maddon. He's certainly not without his flaws, but I'd rather have him than Girardi, DeRosa, Ross, etc.
Indifferent. I like Joe, but I wonder if his shtick (although it seems to have been dialed back of late) has gotten old with some players. I'm also not sure a manager makes that much difference, especially as baseball gets more and more analytical. Give me whatever manager leaves enough room in the budget for better players.
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Fellow Cubs fans, what are your thoughts on the Cubs managerial situation?
I'd prefer they keep Maddon. He's certainly not without his flaws, but I'd rather have him than Girardi, DeRosa, Ross, etc.
If we're talking about firing a manager who's been to 3 nlcs's in the 4 years he's managed the team, then I think you know all you need to about this new Cubs team.
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If we're talking about firing a manager who's been to 3 nlcs's in the 4 years he's managed the team, then I think you know all you need to about this new Cubs team.
I think you mean all we know about new cubs fans.
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If we're talking about firing a manager who's been to 3 nlcs's in the 4 years he's managed the team, then I think you know all you need to about this new Cubs team.
Brewer fan snark aside ::). They wouldn't be firing him, his contract is up and they wouldn't extend him. You're not cutting a QB or sending down a CF if their contract expires and you don't resign them, you're just moving in a different direction. Especially when he's making like $6-7MM and another manager would likely be closer to $1.5-2MM.
He's a chemistry and clubhouse guy, not a strategic genius. He is particularly effective with young and inexperienced teams. He was the absolute perfect fit for a young Cubs franchise. We've seen his deficiencies, happened in 2015, was on display in infuriating fashion last year. This is an experienced team with lots of leaders now. And windows close quickly. They have big salary decisions coming up. You saw how fast the Tigers window slammed shut.
I agree that he's been toned down a bit this year. I think his decision making and handle of the team down the stretch, and hopefully into the playoffs will dictate his extension or lack thereof. And I'm fine with that. Baseball managing is like soccer managing to me. There is a lot less direct Xs and Os like basketball or football, so its a flow and chemistry thing. Thats easier to move on when its broken than deciding if a good coach just had a bad team or year.
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Amen. The LLWS and Little League in general is exactly what is wrong with youth sports these days. For multiple reasons. The biggest of which is leaving late bloomers behind. It shuts out sports at too young an age for too many children.
Have you read Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers"? Specifically, the chapter on youth hockey in Canada.
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Have you read Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers"? Specifically, the chapter on youth hockey in Canada.
I haven't but I understand the concept. People complain about kids not being involved in sports, but those complainers are often the ones who had the timing and resources to have their kids involved early. And the rest self-select out, or never had the chance to begin with.
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I think it was really smart of Epstein to not extend Maddon.
One mistake pro teams make all the time is extending the contract of a coach or manager too early. Let the season play out.
I know that on a few very rare occasions, a coach or manager might be so good and in such high demand that a team owner or GM might feel they have to extend to keep the guy. But that's hardly ever the case. And it's not college, where you need to extend the coach's contract for the sake of recruiting.
I remember when the Bears extended Dick Jauron after the smoke-and-mirrors 2001 Bears went 13-3. He had won 6 and 5 games his first two seasons, and he was under contract for 2002. Would it have killed them to see if he could follow up on his 2001 success before they committed to him? Were a dozen other franchises ready to swoop in and steal Jauron away? But the Bears couldn't help themselves; they extended his contract. And after the team predictably went 4-12 the next year, they had to hang onto Jauron for yet another hopeless, horribly coached season. Just one of many examples.
So I respect the way Epstein is dealing with Maddon.
If some team swoops in and "steals" Maddon, oh well, it probably was time for a change for all parties concerned. Phil Jackson used to say that after X number of years, athletes tune out coaches and it's time for a change.
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Fellow Cubs fans, what are your thoughts on the Cubs managerial situation?
I'd prefer they keep Maddon. He's certainly not without his flaws, but I'd rather have him than Girardi, DeRosa, Ross, etc.
I think Joe Maddon and the retiring Bruce Bochy make close to twice as much as any other manager in MLB; their contracts are inflated and out-dated. I think it would be strange to re-sign Joe at a fraction of his current salary, given his success. For that reason, I can see the Cubs going in a different direction.
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I think Maddon handles the clubhouse as well as any manager and his bullpen as badly as any manager. The road record is ridiculous with all the one run and blown losses. You can maybe blame injuries, but why don’t the injuries impact them at home? That said, it all depends on how the Cubs close.
Also, it won’t happen, but why do the Cubs need Hoyer? Redundant yes man.
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I think Madden handles the clubhouse as well as any manager and his bullpen as badly as any manager. The road record is ridiculous with all the one run and blown losses. You can maybe blame injuries, but why don’t the injuries impact them at home? That said, it all depends on how the Cubs close.
Also, it won’t happen, but why do the Cubs need Hoyer? Redundant yes man.
Cubs hit very well at home.
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Cubs hit very well at home.
This says it’s the pitching to blame.
https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2019/8/15/20807494/cubs-weird-home-road-splits-120-games
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This says it’s the pitching to blame.
https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2019/8/15/20807494/cubs-weird-home-road-splits-120-games
I'd have to look through the schedule but Im guessing there are quite a few blowout wins away that are really skewing those numbers. Sometimes stats don't tell the real story
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I think Maddon will be gone if for no other reason than his salary is too high in comparison to what baseball has become, and the Ricketts financial struggles in paying off Cubs debt will be an easy place for them to find cost savings.
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I think Maddon handles the clubhouse as well as any manager and his bullpen as badly as any manager. The road record is ridiculous with all the one run and blown losses. You can maybe blame injuries, but why don’t the injuries impact them at home? That said, it all depends on how the Cubs close.
Also, it won’t happen, but why do the Cubs need Hoyer? Redundant yes man.
I think there's a good chance Theo moves on when his contract is up in a couple years. He has said before he believes around ten years at one place is the right amount of time. I'd guess Jed becomes the president and Jason McLeod becomes the GM if Theo leaves.
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I'd have to look through the schedule but Im guessing there are quite a few blowout wins away that are really skewing those numbers. Sometimes stats don't tell the real story
Eight walk-off losses (road). 19-20 in one run games, with 12 of those losses on the road.
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Not that we’re at this weekend I’m going to stand on my original thoughts on the players weekend jerseys. Not great.
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Not that we’re at this weekend I’m going to stand on my original thoughts on the players weekend jerseys. Not great.
Anytime you have to have the pitcher wear a different hat cause the jerseys FOR EVERY HOME TEAM can mess with hitters, you probably f***ed up the design
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If the Cubs make the postseason, what do you do with Lester?
The guy's a gamer from way back, but he is pitching as poorly as any starter in baseball.
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If the Cubs make the postseason, what do you do with Lester?
The guy's a gamer from way back, but he is pitching as poorly as any starter in baseball.
Your 3 right now are Hendricks, Hamels and then either Q or Darvish. Over his last 8, Darvish has 3 electric starts, 2 that were very good, and 3 that were bad. If you can get the 0-2 ER and consistent Darvish, he’s the easy choice. But who knows with him. Still think he’s the guy cause his upside seems higher than Q right now.
As for Lester, you put him in the pen. Ideal guy for 4 innings if your starter gets shaky early on. He’s absolutely a gamer and a playoff legend for 2 clubs, but he’s just been awful
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Your 3 right now are Hendricks, Hamels and then either Q or Darvish. Over his last 8, Darvish has 3 electric starts, 2 that were very good, and 3 that were bad. If you can get the 0-2 ER and consistent Darvish, he’s the easy choice. But who knows with him. Still think he’s the guy cause his upside seems higher than Q right now.
As for Lester, you put him in the pen. Ideal guy for 4 innings if your starter gets shaky early on. He’s absolutely a gamer and a playoff legend for 2 clubs, but he’s just been awful
Very reasonable. Would love to chat Maddon up and see if he feels the same.
That was quite a series against the Nats. Outscored 23-10 in an important home series. Certainly crushes the perception that the Cubbies are borderline unbeatable at home.
While Brewers and Cardinals will be going at it the next few days, Cubs have to play the Mets on the road ... and face Stroman, Syndergaard and deGrom.
The Cardinals have a chance to all but sew up the division by the end of the week.
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My vote is do not repeat the all white and all black uniforms again as done this weekend. Drab.
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The Cardinals have a chance to all but sew up the division by the end of the week.
Mmmmmmm!
Music to my ears. Of course, as wacky as this season has been, they’ll get swept by the Brewers and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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A couple of thoughts about this weekend:
1) The Cubs are a good baseball team. Not a great one and certainly not as great as most Cub fans think they are. The team proved Sunday against Washington they can come back from almost anything and they're almost never out of any game they play. I really was impressed about how, after a really nasty pitching duel, they battled back to tie Washington. As I listened to the game, they could have folded numerous times. They didn't and I give Maddon credit for that.
2) Now, about that bullpen......
3) The Cardinals were playing a decidedly mediocre team at home. They won the games good teams are supposed to win. And then some. The key for this team is that Ozuna and Goldschmidt are starting to show something and Dexter Fowler (remember him, Cub fans?) is finally starting to show that the contract he was given was not for naught.
4) The difference between the Cubs and Cardinals is pitching. The Cub veteran pitchers are old and crafty, but their arms wear down later in the season. The Cardinals arms are young and in many cases livelier (Adam Wainwright excepted), but they lack the experience and knowledge of the Cub staff. Also wonder if things are tight in late September how the lack of experience will manifest itself in Jack Flaherty, Dakota Hudson and Michael Mikonis?
5) Milwaukee's season is on the line this week. Get swept by the Cardinals and the season is over. Lose two of three and, hey Milwaukee, you're on life support! I like Counsell and there's a lot of things to like about the Brewers, but their pitching makes the Cubs staff look like world beaters.
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A couple of thoughts about this weekend:
1) The Cubs are a good baseball team. Not a great one and certainly not as great as most Cub fans think they are. The team proved Sunday against Washington they can come back from almost anything and they're almost never out of any game they play. I really was impressed about how, after a really nasty pitching duel, they battled back to tie Washington. As I listened to the game, they could have folded numerous times. They didn't and I give Maddon credit for that.
2) Now, about that bullpen......
3) The Cardinals were playing a decidedly mediocre team at home. They won the games good teams are supposed to win. And then some. The key for this team is that Ozuna and Goldschmidt are starting to show something and Dexter Fowler (remember him, Cub fans?) is finally starting to show that the contract he was given was not for naught.
4) The difference between the Cubs and Cardinals is pitching. The Cub veteran pitchers are old and crafty, but their arms wear down later in the season. The Cardinals arms are young and in many cases livelier (Adam Wainwright excepted), but they lack the experience and knowledge of the Cub staff. Also wonder if things are tight in late September how the lack of experience will manifest itself in Jack Flaherty, Dakota Hudson and Michael Mikonis?
5) Milwaukee's season is on the line this week. Get swept by the Cardinals and the season is over. Lose two of three and, hey Milwaukee, you're on life support! I like Counsell and there's a lot of things to like about the Brewers, but their pitching makes the Cubs staff look like world beaters.
I agree with all of that.
Winning games a team is "supposed to win" is not as easy as it sounds -- especially in baseball, where any good pitcher can have an off day and a bad pitcher can have a career outing.
Just yesterday, the Phillies lost a game they desperately needed to win to the Marlins.
I remember back in the final week of the 2004 season, the Cubs lost 3 straight games at home to a bad Cinci team as part of an epic choke job. Greg Maddux, signed before the season to give the Cubs "the best pitching staff ever," was routed in the first of those 3 losses. In many ways, that game started his decline into relative mediocrity after so many stellar seasons.
So I give the Cardinals -- or any team -- credit for winning the ones they're supposed to. It's never easy to sweep a 4-game series, no matter the opponent.
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Brew Crew shot der load, aina?
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As previously mentioned, the Cardinals entered a long stretch of playing losing record teams except for Milwaukee. They have so far gone 13-3 in their last 16 after losing 5 straight to strong winning teams. Results aren't always automatic but they have been taking advantage of the opportunity thus far.
Their bullpen leads the league in at least a half dozen categories and Jack Flaherty has been arguably the best starting pitcher in the league since the all star break. This is what people expected from him. It's still a mediocre at best offense but it's been scoring against the bad teams in this stretch.
Cubs finish 17 of final 32 on the road where they have struggled.
Things can and do change.
Any of 3 teams can win the division.
Washington won 5 in a row and gets a sweep in Chicago, playing well. Then you look up at Atlanta who has won 8 in a row. At the least it has positioned Washington well in the Wild Card race.
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We can pretty much put a fork in the Crew.
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We can pretty much put a fork in the Crew.
Nah. Not after tonight. After Wednesday? Maybe. Let's see how the next two go.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/christian-yelich-comes-out-to-roxanne-as-his-walkup-song-to-troll-the-concerned-mother-who-came-at-him-on-twitter-this-morning
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And now Miller Park just had a rain delay.
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And now Miller Park just had a rain delay.
The 2019 Brewers season in a nutshell.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/christian-yelich-comes-out-to-roxanne-as-his-walkup-song-to-troll-the-concerned-mother-who-came-at-him-on-twitter-this-morning
Her Twitter profile says it all.
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Her Twitter profile says it all.
Totally. Engineers, Amirite?
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Washington lost at home to Baltimore ... Philly lost at home to Pittsburgh ... Tuesday was perfect example of supposedly good teams not taking care of business against bad teams.
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Washington lost at home to Baltimore ... Philly lost at home to Pittsburgh ... Tuesday was perfect example of supposedly good teams not taking care of business against bad teams.
Just baseball things. Winning 6/10 games usually gets you into playoffs.
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Washington lost at home to Baltimore ... Philly lost at home to Pittsburgh ... Tuesday was perfect example of supposedly good teams not taking care of business against bad teams.
That's baseball.
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Just baseball things. Winning 6/10 games usually gets you into playoffs.
Has there ever been a 97-98 win team that didn't make the Playoffs?
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Has there ever been a 97-98 win team that didn't make the Playoffs?
There are several 100 win teams to not make the playoffs. Before the wildcard era though.
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There are several 100 win teams to not make the playoffs. Before the wildcard era though.
I'm a believer in a 3 game wild card. That 98 win pirate VS 97 win cub game is still in my mind.
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There are several 100 win teams to not make the playoffs. Before the wildcard era though.
Wild, would've guessed never in my lifetime. Looks like the last time it happened was to the Giants in 1993. 103 wins and no postseason.
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Wild, would've guessed never in my lifetime. Looks like the last time it happened was to the Giants in 1993. 103 wins and no postseason.
I could see it with the 2 division era
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Yeah in the late 1970s / early 80s, there were numerous teams in the AL East that didn't make the playoffs with 90+ wins. In 1978, the year Bucky Dent hit the HR in the one game playoff v. the Red Sox, the Baltimore Orioles had 90 wins but finished *fourth* in the division behind the Yankees, Red Sox and Brewers. Between 1977 and 1980, the AL East runner up had 95+ wins.
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Has there ever been a 97-98 win team that didn't make the Playoffs?
Many
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I'm a believer in a 3 game wild card. That 98 win pirate VS 97 win cub game is still in my mind.
The problem is then the division winners are waiting, what 5-6 days to play?
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Yeah in the late 1970s / early 80s, there were numerous teams in the AL East that didn't make the playoffs with 90+ wins. In 1978, the year Bucky Dent hit the HR in the one game playoff v. the Red Sox, the Baltimore Orioles had 90 wins but finished *fourth* in the division behind the Yankees, Red Sox and Brewers. Between 1977 and 1980, the AL East runner up had 95+ wins.
Most wins and not in playoffs since introduction of division play. Average wins for best record missing the playoffs is 87 since introduction of second wild card, 90 when there was one wild card, and 94 when there were two divisions and no wild card.
Yr Wins Teams Comment
1961 101 Tigers ^
1962 102 Dodgers *
1963 94 White Sox
1964 98 White Sox
1965 95 White Sox, Giants
1966 93 Giants
1967 91 Tigers, Twins, Giants
1968 91 Orioles
1969 92 Cubs
1970 93 Yankees
1971 91 Tigers
1972 92 White Sox **
1973 95 Dodgers
1974 98 Reds
1975 91 Royals
1976 92 Pirates, Dodgers
1977 97 Orioles, Red Sox
1978 99 Red Sox *
1979 95 Brewers, Expos
1980 100 Orioles
1981 99 Reds **
1982 94 Orioles
1983 92 Tigers
1984 90 Mets
1985 98 Mets
1986 90 Yankees
1987 96 Blue Jays
1988 91 Twins
1989 92 Royals
1990 94 White Sox
1991 93 Dodgers
1992 92 Brewers
1993 103 Giants
1994 N/A *** ^^
1995 78 Angels **
1996 88 Expos
1997 88 Mets, Dodgers
1998 89 Giants
1999 96 Reds *
2000 90 Indians
2001 90 Giants
2002 93 Red Sox, Mariners
2003 93 Mariners
2004 91 A's, Giants
2005 93 Indians
2006 89 Angels
2007 89 Padres
2008 89 Yankees, Mets
2009 87 Rangers, Marlins
2010 90 Padres
2011 90 Red Sox
2012 90 Rays
2013 86 Royals, Nats ^^^
2014 87 Mariners
2015 85 Angels
2016 86 Tigers, Mariners, Cards
2017 86 Brewers
2018 90 Rays
^ - NL plays 154 game schedule
^^ - MLB moves to three divisions, wild card introduced
^^^ - Second wild card added
* - Lost playoff
** - Strike season, win total prorated to 162 games
***-Strike season, no postseason
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Most wins and not in playoffs since introduction of division play. Average wins for best record missing the playoffs is 87 since introduction of second wild card, 90 when there was one wild card, and 94 when there were two divisions and no wild card.
Yr Wins Teams Comment
1961 101 Tigers ^
1962 102 Dodgers *
1963 94 White Sox
1964 98 White Sox
1965 95 White Sox, Giants
1966 93 Giants
1967 91 Tigers, Twins, Giants
1968 91 Orioles
1969 92 Cubs
1970 93 Yankees
1971 91 Tigers
1972 92 White Sox **
1973 95 Dodgers
1974 98 Reds
1975 91 Royals
1976 92 Pirates, Dodgers
1977 97 Orioles, Red Sox
1978 99 Red Sox *
1979 95 Brewers, Expos
1980 100 Orioles
1981 99 Reds **
1982 94 Orioles
1983 92 Tigers
1984 90 Mets
1985 98 Mets
1986 90 Yankees
1987 96 Blue Jays
1988 91 Twins
1989 92 Royals
1990 94 White Sox
1991 93 Dodgers
1992 92 Brewers
1993 103 Giants
1994 N/A *** ^^^
1995 78 Angels **
1996 88 Expos
1997 88 Mets, Dodgers
1998 89 Giants
1999 96 Reds *
2000 90 Indians
2001 90 Giants
2002 93 Red Sox, Mariners
2003 93 Mariners
2004 91 A's, Giants
2005 93 Indians
2006 89 Angels
2007 89 Padres
2008 89 Yankees, Mets
2009 87 Rangers, Marlins
2010 90 Padres
2011 90 Red Sox
2012 90 Rays
2013 86 Royals, Nats ^^^
2014 87 Mariners
2015 85 Angels
2016 86 Tigers, Mariners, Cards
2017 86 Brewers
2018 90 Rays
^ - NL plays 154 game schedule
^^ - MLB moves to three divisions, wild card introduced
^^^ - Second wild card added
* - Lost playoff
** - Strike season, win total prorated to 162 games
***-Strike season, no postseason
^^ Very cool. Thank you!
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Just baseball things. Winning 6/10 games usually gets you into playoffs.
Agreed.
That's baseball.
Agreed.
Folks simply were talking earlier about so-and-so's "easy" schedule. A team still has to win the games. The 2004 Cubs lost 3 straight at home to a bad Cinci team in the final week to miss the playoffs.
Indeed, that's baseball.
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^^ Very cool. Thank you!
You're Welcome.
Pre-1969, the best records to not make the World Series are:
1909 Cubs 104-49 .680 (translates to 110-52 in 162)
1942 Dodgers 104-50 .675 (translates to 109-53 in 162)
1954 Yankees 103-51 .669 (translates to 108-54 in 162)
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The problem is then the division winners are waiting, what 5-6 days to play?
Is that a legitimate concern for them after a 162 game slog?
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Is that a legitimate concern for them after a 162 game slog?
Yeah baseball is about timing. Players largely don't want that much time off in between games.
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In a complete 180, the Cubs now have a four game road winning streak and a three game home losing streak.
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It's ridiculous that the Cubs have a night game in NY today and a day game in Chicago tomorrow.
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Is that a legitimate concern for them after a 162 game slog?
The 2006 and 2013 Tigers say yes.
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It's ridiculous that the Cubs have a night game in NY today and a day game in Chicago tomorrow.
Home team are in charge of game times. They could start at 7, like every other team does on Friday nights
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Home team are in charge of game times. They could start at 7, like every other team does on Friday nights
They could. It could be completely the Cubs fault. I'm also not a fan of night games on getaway days.
It's just a tough ask for the players to get into town 10-12 hours before their next game.
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Rest (pun) assured Cubs fans, this is not last years Brewers team. You do not need to make excuses before the series start for why your team might lose a game or the series. The Brewers stink this year. You'll be fine.
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Fo, on dis wee agree, hey?
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Home team are in charge of game times. They could start at 7, like every other team does on Friday nights
Cubs legally cannot play nights on Fridays
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Interesting schedule quirk this year. The Brewers have an off-day the day before every Cubs/Brewers series this season.
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Good thing that wasn’t Bryant’s throw in 2016...
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Cubs legally cannot play nights on Fridays
So all of MLB must compensate huh?
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Cubs legally cannot play nights on Fridays
Well, they did get that waiver against the Brewers last year.
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Well, they did get that waiver against the Brewers last year.
Did they? Weird that I never heard anything about it on Scoop.
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Well, they did get that waiver against the Brewers last year.
Only because they really needed the makeup game after the sun-out
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Tyler Skaggs death ruled an accidental overdose of drugs/alcohol.
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Tyler Skaggs death ruled an accidental overdose of drugs/alcohol.
Family has engaged Rusty Hardin of Houston as their atty...maybe angling to prove Angels personnel helped supply his drugs (fentanyl and oxycodone) and ...then they sue organization for responsibility.
Rusty repr Rogers Clemens before congress...Arthur Anderson in post Enron suit...mildly, neither came out well...IMHO Rusty is better at self promotion PR than he is in his work...I wish they had chosen someone else.
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Oxy, fentanyl, and booze will do it. Thoughts and prayers for the family.
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Feel for the family, obviously a sad situation, but to go out and seek to sue some locker room jockey is going to bring out some information about their son that they probably didn’t know (their denial and naivety on a likely drug addiction or at least interest).
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Feel for the family, obviously a sad situation, but to go out and seek to sue some locker room jockey is going to bring out some information about their son that they probably didn’t know (their denial and naivety on a likely drug addiction or at least interest).
You're right. The problem isn't that someone supplied the pills - it is that Skaggs wanted the pills.
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A little off topic, but.....
Next month, ESPN has an E:60 about the first live broadcast of a game that they televised. It was a Semi-pro 12” game between Milwaukee and a team from Kentucky at Lannan Field.
I’m looking forward to it cause there are several guys I played with and against on the Milwaukee team - guys from Kenosha and Racine.
Will be fun to see this doc.
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Very nice Saturday for the Cardinals.
A repeat today would give them a 4-game lead.
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Very nice Saturday for the Cardinals.
A repeat today would give them a 4-game lead.
They essentially are playing 5 games in 48 hours including tomorrow’s day game.
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A little off topic, but.....
Next month, ESPN has an E:60 about the first live broadcast of a game that they televised. It was a Semi-pro 12” game between Milwaukee and a team from Kentucky at Lannan Field.
I’m looking forward to it cause there are several guys I played with and against on the Milwaukee team - guys from Kenosha and Racine.
Will be fun to see this doc.
Phil Higgins was the man.
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They essentially are playing 5 games in 48 hours including tomorrow’s day game.
A win tonight and they're up 4 on the little cubbie bear. Cardinals are playing really well and even Harrison Bader -- Mr. Clutch -- is hitting
Ya'll know what that white stuff running down the little cubbie bear's face is right now? It's either beer foam or bird crap.
Best thing about baseball -- here today gone tomorrow.
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Phil Higgins was the man.
no doubt.
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A win tonight and they're up 4 on the little cubbie bear. Cardinals are playing really well and even Harrison Bader -- Mr. Clutch -- is hitting
Ya'll know what that white stuff running down the little cubbie bear's face is right now? It's either beer foam or bird crap.
Best thing about baseball -- here today gone tomorrow.
https://sports.yahoo.com/cardinals-fired-up-over-unwritten-rules-again-freddy-galvis-201635425.html
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https://sports.yahoo.com/cardinals-fired-up-over-unwritten-rules-again-freddy-galvis-201635425.html
Thank goodness we have the Cardinals to keep track of all these unwritten rules for us.
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Thank goodness we have the Cardinals to keep track of all these unwritten rules for us.
Of course.
They have the best fans in baseball. And they play the game the right way
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Thank goodness we have the Cardinals to keep track of all these unwritten rules for us.
Were they always this insufferable or is this a residual effect from the Tony LaRussa era?
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Thank goodness we have the Cardinals to keep track of all these unwritten rules for us.
This has been known for a long time. Braden took on A Rod. Bert Blyleven, Jamie Quirk, Dave Roberts, Steve Carlton, Bob Gibson,
You guys don’t remember this from the last decade?
https://thebaseballcodes.com/category/dont-cross-the-pitchers-mound/
https://thebaseballcodes.com/2010/04/24/point-counterpoint-on-the-a-rodbraden-affair/
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Every individual situation is different depending on the topic, but any pitcher in their league would not like it if opposing player jogged over the mound where they pitch.
Brewers vs Astros this week.....even after all of these years I still see the Astros as a National League team and Brewers as an American League team.
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Were they always this insufferable or is this a residual effect from the Tony LaRussa era?
Not shocking that one of baseball’s all time pricks, AJ Pierzynski was guilty of this constantly. And he got plunked often as a result.
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Not shocking that one of baseball’s all time pricks, AJ Pierzynski was guilty of this constantly. And he got plunked often as a result.
AJ is the unnatural carnal knowledgeing man.
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You have 40 players to work with and you send up Travis Shaw in a 2-2 game with 2 outs and a runner on second in the bottom of the 9th? Counsel hasn’t had anything to work with so not much to blame him for this year, but that alone might be fireable. I’d take Tebow over Shaw. Heck I’d take current day Michael Jordan over Shaw.
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AJ is the unnatural carnal knowledgeing man.
All time douche
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You have 40 players to work with and you send up Travis Shaw in a 2-2 game with 2 outs and a runner on second in the bottom of the 9th? Counsel hasn’t had anything to work with so not much to blame him for this year, but that alone might be fireable. I’d take Tebow over Shaw. Heck I’d take current day Michael Jordan over Shaw.
Did I miss something or could they have just had Arcia bat?
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Did I miss something or could they have just had Arcia bat?
You’re right. Didn’t even notice that.
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You’re right. Didn’t even notice that.
And because of that you had Perez to end the game instead of Moose.
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MVPs shouldn’t be getting screwed over that bad on the strike zone. Two backward Ks where the ball never came close to the strike zone.
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MVPs shouldn’t be getting screwed over that bad on the strike zone. Two backward Ks where the ball never came close to the strike zone.
It was being called all game. He should have known that.
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BTW even Astros TV crew thought Yelich got jobbed on those calls, too.
Only in recent years have they been able to throw up the strike zone graphic...giving all of us an idea of what should be called.
Its weird tho...there are clearly umps who are consistent and others that go off the rails...I now more fully understand why players/pitchers just want call consistency
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The one in the ninth was pretty brutal. The pitch was at the level of his elbow pad.
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All time douche
And yet, no drunk driving, spousal abuse, drug trafficking, drug use, steroid allegations, fraudulent business dealings, or attempted murder.
Cool story though.
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Athletics are 20 games over .500 yet sit outside of the Wildcard. Mike Fiers is 13-3.
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And yet, no drunk driving, spousal abuse, drug trafficking, drug use, steroid allegations, fraudulent business dealings, or attempted murder.
Cool story though.
One can be a criminal and a douche, one can also be a douche of a player between the lines. AJ is that personified. It is why so many classified him that way as a player.
https://popculturehasaids.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/the-20-biggest-douchebags-in-baseball/
https://flavadave10mlb.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/mlb-all-douchebag-team/
https://www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-20-douchiest-people-in-sports/
Voted in 2012 by his fellow players as the most hated in the league....he won with handily from his peers.
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One can be a criminal and a douche, one can also be a douche of a player between the lines. AJ is that personified. It is why so many classified him that way as a player.
https://popculturehasaids.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/the-20-biggest-douchebags-in-baseball/
https://flavadave10mlb.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/mlb-all-douchebag-team/
https://www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-20-douchiest-people-in-sports/
Voted in 2012 by his fellow players as the most hated in the league....he won with handily from his peers.
I wonder where you would fall is a scoop poll.
Really though, who cares. I hated him as a Twin and loved him on the Sox. His Sox teammates didn't seem to have any real problems with him.
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I wonder where you would fall is a scoop poll.
Really though, who cares. I hated him as a Twin and loved him on the Sox. His Sox teammates didn't seem to have any real problems with him.
Oh I am guessing I would come out pretty hated by some, but that’s ok. Feel free to start the poll. I don’t give two chits and those on the board that really know me, really know me...met me...broke bread with me...etc, those are the peeps I care about much more.
Now, AJ’s peers voted him that way, they worked with him daily, far different than people on a message board that few have met. AJ also got called out for lying to umps, essentially being an agitator and taking advantage of situations when he clearly knew he was in the wrong, but sometime he could get a gullible u p to go for it. If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying. Nothing noble about AJ. I am not surprised by your response, reminds me of Bulls fans with Rodman and others. He’s a douche, but when he plays for us he is our beloved douche....right?
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Oh I am guessing I would come out pretty hated by some, but that’s ok. Feel free to start the poll. I don’t give two chits and those on the board that really know me, really know me...met me...broke bread with me...etc, those are the peeps I care about much more.
Now, AJ’s peers voted him that way, they worked with him daily, far different than people on a message board that few have met. AJ also got called out for lying to umps, essentially being an agitator and taking advantage of situations when he clearly knew he was in the wrong, but sometime he could get a gullible u p to go for it. If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying. Nothing noble about AJ. I am not surprised by your response, reminds me of Bulls fans with Rodman and others. He’s a douche, but when he plays for us he is our beloved douche....right?
I smell ALCS tears. That's all this is about right?
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Trout 200 stolen bases and 250 HRs before age 28. Fastest ever to do it by nearly a year. Need some pitching badly.
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I smell ALCS tears. That's all this is about right?
Uhm, did I vote him a douche like his fellow players? Did that have anything to do with the ALCS? He earned those honors all by his big boy self for many years.
Fans were asking if AJ was the biggest cheater in baseball for a long time. Years before the ALCS or the NLCS for which he was accused in both. He is what he is, a douche.
https://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/3212/pierzynski-cheats-romero-loses-no-no
https://landofdavecorzine.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/is-aj-pierzynski-the-greatest-cheater-in-mlb-history/
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Uhm, did I vote him a douche like his fellow players? Did that have anything to do with the ALCS? He earned those honors all by his big boy self for many years.
Fans were asking if AJ was the biggest cheater in baseball for a long time. Years before the ALCS or the NLCS for which he was accused in both. He is what he is, a douche.
https://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/3212/pierzynski-cheats-romero-loses-no-no
https://landofdavecorzine.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/is-aj-pierzynski-the-greatest-cheater-in-mlb-history/
(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/12/25/04/2707743/8/920x920.jpg)
;D
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Yeah. Not clicking on any of your links. His competitors don't like him. Big deal. Would Gibson or Feller have been widely liked?
You shouldn't believe everything you read in the media.
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Yeah. Not clicking on any of your links. His competitors don't like him. Big deal. Would Gibson or Feller have been widely liked?
You shouldn't believe everything you read in the media.
+1. As you previously stated, lots of hate due to the pounding the Sox gave the Halos in 2005. Cheeks can't hate him just because he's a douche. After all, he acknowledges that Crean is the quintessential douche, a douche among men, the Douche for All Seasons, - and yet he worships at his altar.
Douche or not, I'd want him on my side. Smart, got under opponents skin, kept his cool while others lost theirs. And (in a bar in Detroit out drinking with all those teammates Chico claims hated him, LOL) he picked Journey's "Don't Stop Believin" as the soon to be World Champion's anthem. And now he's as good as it gets in the booth. Love that guy!!!
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Yeah. Not clicking on any of your links. His competitors don't like him. Big deal. Would Gibson or Feller have been widely liked?
You shouldn't believe everything you read in the media.
His Red Sox teammates asked the club to get rid of him, widely known. Not the only club he played for in which that happened.
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+1. As you previously stated, lots of hate due to the pounding the Sox gave the Halos in 2005. Cheeks can't hate him just because he's a douche. After all, he acknowledges that Crean is the quintessential douche, a douche among men, the Douche for All Seasons, - and yet he worships at his altar.
Douche or not, I'd want him on my side. Smart, got under opponents skin, kept his cool while others lost theirs. And (in a bar in Detroit out drinking with all those teammates Chico claims hated him, LOL) he picked Journey's "Don't Stop Believin" as the soon to be World Champion's anthem. And now he's as good as it gets in the booth. Love that guy!!!
It’s funny how much space I occupy in your brain.
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It’s funny how much space I occupy in your brain.
You’re going to have 5,000 posts in the first year if having this username. That’s a lot of reading for any scoop poster. You take up a lot of space in all our brains.
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+1. As you previously stated, lots of hate due to the pounding the Sox gave the Halos in 2005. Cheeks can't hate him just because he's a douche. After all, he acknowledges that Crean is the quintessential douche, a douche among men, the Douche for All Seasons, - and yet he worships at his altar.
Douche or not, I'd want him on my side. Smart, got under opponents skin, kept his cool while others lost theirs. And (in a bar in Detroit out drinking with all those teammates Chico claims hated him, LOL) he picked Journey's "Don't Stop Believin" as the soon to be World Champion's anthem. And now he's as good as it gets in the booth. Love that guy!!!
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58988.msg1151472#msg1151472
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Were they always this insufferable or is this a residual effect from the Tony LaRussa era?
Naah, it goes back to the 1920s. We have been the best fans in baseball since the advent of the radio.
Don’t believe we are the best fans in baseball? Just ask us!
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https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58988.msg1151472#msg1151472
Where did I say I was buckchuckler free? Cheeks has had literally scores of posts I could have ripped in the last week but I refrained. Because I won't talk to him. But he's omnipresent here - in the middle of almost everything. So he will likely come up in conversations with others. Sorry, Mom.
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Where did I say I was buckchuckler free? Cheeks has had literally scores of posts I could have ripped in the last week but I refrained. Because I won't talk to him. But he's omnipresent here - in the middle of almost everything. So he will likely come up in conversations with others. Sorry, Mom.
LOL. OK. You took a topic about AJ and made it about Cheeks and Crean.
He's right when he says "It’s funny how much space I occupy in your brain."
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His Red Sox teammates asked the club to get rid of him, widely known. Not the only club he played for in which that happened.
Could we do a similar vote?
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You’re going to have 5,000 posts in the first year if having this username. That’s a lot of reading for any scoop poster. You take up a lot of space in all our brains.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/12W37klNpwdOgw/giphy.gif)
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If one is put in the unenviable position to defend A.J.’s antics, he has the losing hand.
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He’s a douche, but when he plays for us he is our beloved douche....right?
Sports fandom is new to you, I see.
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As a former little league umpire (impressive I know), I'd actually blame the umpires for the AJ controversy against the Angels.
Before this play even happened, they were teaching us that the home plate umpire can't always tell if the catcher catches the ball in the dirt from his viewpoint. As a result the first base umpire (for a righty batter) or the third base umpire (for a lefty batter) should signal either a closed fist (if caught) or a open palm (if not caught) to help the home plate umpire make the call.
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He’s a douche, but when he plays for us he is our beloved douche....right?
This is how I felt when Jim Edmonds became a Cub.
God, I hated that guy... until he got a few big hits as a Cub.
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This is how I felt when Jim Edmonds became a Cub.
God, I hated that guy... until he got a few big hits as a Cub.
Half shirts.
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This is how I felt when Jim Edmonds became a Cub.
God, I hated that guy... until he got a few big hits as a Cub.
There is a quote from the West Wing I always use to describe the mercurial nature of fan perception of players
"They'll like us when we win"
You bring a player over from a hated rival. There is some groans and bitter memories...until they start winning games in your colors. We see it with players being terrible off the field, but excelling on the field to raucous cheers. Not to be political, but Ive made the argument about the first player in the big 4 major sports to come out while still playing, it will be a hot button issue unless or until he's a star and most fans would completely forget about it.
Different sport, but it was Dellavadova for me. I absolutely hated the clown and how he played in Cleveland, but I was constantly screaming for him to get minutes in the 2018 playoffs and lauding how the team played better with him over Bledsoe.
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Chelios as a Red Wing. Jordan became a Rodman fan when Rodman wasn't with the Pistons guarding him.
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LOL. OK. You took a topic about AJ and made it about Cheeks and Crean.
He's right when he says "It’s funny how much space I occupy in your brain."
If you read my post you would know that the majority of it was about AJ - what a smart player he was, what an awesome leader of the 2005 World Champs he was, what an excellent baseball color man he is, etc., etc.,
A brief mention of Chico the Hypocrite because he was insisting to buck that being a douche is now a bad thing after writing volumes about how great some other douche was.
But by all means keep monitoring the situation - nobody better to judge than the guy who has been embroiled in more lengthy battles on Scoop than anyone not named Chico and who has left here for good twice only to return under a different nom de plume.
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This is how I felt when Jim Edmonds became a Cub.
God, I hated that guy... until he got a few big hits as a Cub.
Of course. It's called being a fan. How many fans do you know that only root for the two or three guys that they know are the "good guys" on their team?
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AJ was an interesting guy.
He was hated in San Fran his one year there. A couple pitchers refused to work with him. He went to Chicago the following season with that reputation ... but he actually was quite popular with the White Sox. They had a loosey-goosey clubhouse with "good guy" leaders like Konerko and Buehrle, and a manager who didn't give a crap about who had what kind of personality.
One of my favorite Ozzie Guillen quotes was: "If you play against him, you hate him. If you play with him, you hate him a little less." Fact is, though, Ozzie liked him quite a bit.
It helped that the White Sox won right away after he joined them, and he was a big reason why. He emerged as a leader on that team, which nobody would have expected. By and large, White Sox fans loved him.
A few Twins pitchers said they actually liked AJ a lot -- they felt he always had their backs. Michael Barrett ... he liked AJ quite a bit less. Barrett wasn't much of a catcher, but Cubs fans gave him a long leash because they loved that he clocked AJ.
As I said, an interesting guy.
Back when he was a Bad Boy, Dennis Rodman had physically tried to injure Scottie Pippen and other Bulls. In that regard, he was miles worse than AJ (or Edmunds, for that matter). And yet Bulls fans came to accept him and, for many, to love him.
Face it ... most of us cheer for the uniform shirt.
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Half shirts.
And playing too shallow to make the amazing play that otherwise would be routine.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b0/85/2c/b0852cfa2272c91734b85bdb7ff02162.jpg)
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I'm gonna tip a cap to myself and say that even though I was a kid, I never rooted for Albert Belle when he was on the Sox. In fact, I don't have a single memory of him on the Sox even though I know he had a monster year.
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I'm gonna tip a cap to myself and say that even though I was a kid, I never rooted for Albert Belle when he was on the Sox. In fact, I don't have a single memory of him on the Sox even though I know he had a monster year.
Ive always wondered if Albert Belle has/had undiagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder. He's quite intelligent, a very good student, National Honor Society in HS, Eagle Scout, had an offer to go to the AF Academy. I remember his contract with the White Sox was clever to keep him tracking with the top 3 highest paid players in baseball. But he was just a jackass with a horrific temper and mood with no remorse for it. Its no surprise that some of the traits carried on post-retirement.
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AJ was an interesting guy.
He was hated in San Fran his one year there. A couple pitchers refused to work with him. He went to Chicago the following season with that reputation ... but he actually was quite popular with the White Sox. They had a loosey-goosey clubhouse with "good guy" leaders like Konerko and Buehrle, and a manager who didn't give a crap about who had what kind of personality.
One of my favorite Ozzie Guillen quotes was: "If you play against him, you hate him. If you play with him, you hate him a little less." Fact is, though, Ozzie liked him quite a bit.
It helped that the White Sox won right away after he joined them, and he was a big reason why. He emerged as a leader on that team, which nobody would have expected. By and large, White Sox fans loved him.
A few Twins pitchers said they actually liked AJ a lot -- they felt he always had their backs. Michael Barrett ... he liked AJ quite a bit less. Barrett wasn't much of a catcher, but Cubs fans gave him a long leash because they loved that he clocked AJ.
As I said, an interesting guy.
Back when he was a Bad Boy, Dennis Rodman had physically tried to injure Scottie Pippen and other Bulls. In that regard, he was miles worse than AJ (or Edmunds, for that matter). And yet Bulls fans came to accept him and, for many, to love him.
Face it ... most of us cheer for the uniform shirt.
All well said, Mike.
As for Barrett, my recollection is he was at fault - he blocked the plate, AJ bowled him over (both clean and legal then). Barrett dropped the ball (if he ever really had it), AJ stepped hard on home and Barrett (embarrassed?) sucker punched AJ. I think Barrett was on the downside of a mediocre career that fell off of a cliff after the incident.
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This is how I felt when Jim Edmonds became a Cub.
God, I hated that guy... until he got a few big hits as a Cub.
There have been guys on my teams that I just absolutely refuse to cheer for, simply cannot do it....ever.
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Could we do a similar vote?
You said you had me on ignore a few weeks ago....what happened?
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AJ's teams won wherever he went. I'd much rather have a winner like AJ than a head case like Milton Bradley
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AJ's teams won wherever he went. I'd much rather have a winner like AJ than a head case like Milton Bradley
What? In fact the Red Sox imploded when he went there and it was one of the reasons why the Red Sox teammates went to management to get him off the team. He did not win wherever he went. The Braves were terrible with him. Nearly half of his career with the White Sox were on losing teams. Let's not oversell this. Look, he was a good player, crafty, and an epic douche, dirty. He won that moniker from his fellow peers hands down. And Milton Bradley, also a douche....and yes I would rather have Pyrzinski instead of Bradley, too. I can think of 15 other catchers in the last 20 years I'd rather have than Pyrzinksi who weren't douches and more than capable players.
Now, back to the thread....I was a bit surprised so many of you had never heard of this unwritten rule, especially with Pyrzinski being one of the main jerks that violated it so often.
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All well said, Mike.
As for Barrett, my recollection is he was at fault - he blocked the plate, AJ bowled him over (both clean and legal then). Barrett dropped the ball (if he ever really had it), AJ stepped hard on home and Barrett (embarrassed?) sucker punched AJ. I think Barrett was on the downside of a mediocre career that fell off of a cliff after the incident.
Your recollection is excellent, Lenny. AJ actually slapped the plate with his hand, and Barrett was definitely embarrassed, and he sucker-punched AJ.
Barrett went on to get into a fight with Zambrano, who basically kicked Barrett's arse in the Cubbie clubhouse after Barrett confronted him. The Cubs felt they had no choice but to trade Barrett, who was a lousy catcher but had a few OK years as a batter.
Barrett was another interesting guy. Actually, quite soft-spoken and mellow ... but he could go bonkers at a moment's notice.
Back to AJ ... he was mostly accepted by the Twins and the White Sox despite his occasional arseholery, and both teams won a lot with him playing a pretty key role. The other teams he was on were not as tolerant of his shtick and he became a pariah in those clubhouses.
All in all, it was a lot easier to believe that the White Sox accepted Pierzynski than the Bulls accepting Rodman.
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Top 5 in MLB in RBIs since 2012.
4th is Pujols.....I was rather shocked to see that. Guy is on a tear of late and looks relaxed for first time in a long time.
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Top 5 in MLB in RBIs since 2012.
4th is Pujols.....I was rather shocked to see that. Guy is on a tear of late and looks relaxed for first time in a long time.
Worthless stat.
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Worthless stat.
If so, they wouldn’t keep it....thus would not be worth keeping....considering they still keep it, I’m going to go against your opinion on this one. It’s not the end all be all stat, and I am not arguing that anyway.
I realize people don’t love it like they used to, but if so worthless, please end the Triple Crown talk forever since 1/3 of it is based on a “worthless” stat.
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If so, they wouldn’t keep it....thus would not be worth keeping....considering they still keep it, I’m going to go against your opinion on this one. It’s not the end all be all stat, and I am not arguing that anyway.
I realize people don’t love it like they used to, but if so worthless, please end the Triple Crown talk forever since 1/3 of it is based on a “worthless” stat.
You could argue 2/3’s is a worthless stat. Nostalgia plays a big part in these things being relevant.
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Worthless stat.
It is not a completely worthless stat, but it certainly is too context driven to have the worth that is generally accorded it. I suspect that with Trout and his .420+ OBP and speed in front of him, Albert gets a lot more RBI opportunities than your average guy, just like guys who batted behind Rickey Henderson tended to get a lot of RBIs. Pujols is an all time great, but he is a replacement level guy now, no matter how many RBIs he gets.
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There are a lot of "stats" that are pretty comical, especially the "combo stats" that teams love to tout in their press notes and ESPN likes to parrot.
So-And-So is only the fourth player in MLB history to record three months of 12 HR, 24 RBIs and 12 steals in a single season.
Dis Guy is the first NBA player in 40 years to average 25 ppg, 8 rpg and 7 apg.
Dat Guy is just the fifth college football player since World War II to rush for 1,200 yards and catch passes for 600 yards while averaging 5.5 yards per carry.
Those aren't "milestones." They are just numbers that some PR person thought sounded cool together.
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There are a lot of "stats" that are pretty comical, especially the "combo stats" that teams love to tout in their press notes and ESPN likes to parrot.
So-And-So is only the fourth player in MLB history to record three months of 12 HR, 24 RBIs and 12 steals in a single season.
Dis Guy is the first NBA player in 40 years to average 25 ppg, 8 rpg and 7 apg.
Dat Guy is just the fifth college football player since World War II to rush for 1,200 yards and catch passes for 600 yards while averaging 5.5 yards per carry.
Those aren't "milestones." They are just numbers that some PR person thought sounded cool together.
I thought he was banned?
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Why didn't the brewers make this an afternoon game?
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You could argue 2/3’s is a worthless stat. Nostalgia plays a big part in these things being relevant.
Yep - BA and RBIs are borderline worthless and can be very misleading as to a player's worth.
Albert Pujols was once a great player, one of the best right hand hitters in the games' history. But he's pretty much a joke now. He hasn't had a positive combined WAR since 2015 and may be the slowest man in baseball (love to see a race between him and Yadi Molina - they could time it with a sun dial). Should be kickin' back at the pool and playing 12" softball one night a week.
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Counsel did not impress me during the NLCS last year. Pitching changes and use of Hader were overthought.
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Counsel did not impress me during the NLCS last year. Pitching changes and use of Hader were overthought.
Cool.
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Counsel did not impress me during the NLCS last year. Pitching changes and use of Hader were overthought.
I feel like this should have been in last year's MLB thread?
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Counsel did not impress me during the NLCS last year. Pitching changes and use of Hader were overthought.
You left no doubt about that last year Chicos.
He had the Brewers one win away from a World Series starting Chacin, Miley, and Gonzalez. Counsel’s handling of the staff last year was borderline immaculate.
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You left no doubt about that last year Chicos.
He had the Brewers one win away from a World Series starting Chacin, Miley, and Gonzalez. Counsel’s handling of the staff last year was borderline immaculate.
LOL. I didn’t say a damn thing about Counsel, but keep on going with the conspiracy.
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Why didn't the brewers make this an afternoon game?
Was offered like 10 pairs of tickets. no one wanted to go lol.
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I've been offered so many tickets to this series, it's insane.
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Nice outing Cole “Not a Rivalry” Hamels.
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Brewers record in last...
10 games: 5-5
20 games: 10-10
30 games: 15-15
40 games: 20-20
50 games: 25-25
60 games: 30-30
That is consistency right there. And amazing.
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Consistency keeps ya outta da playoffs every tyme, aina?
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Brewers record in last...
10 games: 5-5
20 games: 10-10
30 games: 15-15
40 games: 20-20
50 games: 25-25
60 games: 30-30
That is consistency right there. And amazing.
That is pretty amazing indeed.
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Brewers record in last...
10 games: 5-5
20 games: 10-10
30 games: 15-15
40 games: 20-20
50 games: 25-25
60 games: 30-30
That is consistency right there. And amazing.
What's their magic number?
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What's their magic number?
.500 apparently.
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Brewers record in last...
10 games: 5-5
20 games: 10-10
30 games: 15-15
40 games: 20-20
50 games: 25-25
60 games: 30-30
That is consistency right there. And amazing.
The very definition of mediocrity. Thanks for providing that amazing stat.
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I literally texted a couple friends saying, “they have Schwarber literally a step and a half off the warning track to Yelich’s opposite field.” Average at best runner on first only way Yeli walks it off is a perfect gapper or a homer...or if Schwarber goes tumbling around on a ball he has no chance to catch. That was terrible. Pull up and play it off the wall and you’re 2nd and 3rd 2 outs.
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I feel like this should have been in last year's MLB thread?
Ha. Forgot to quote in my response.
You have 40 players to work with and you send up Travis Shaw in a 2-2 game with 2 outs and a runner on second in the bottom of the 9th? Counsel hasn’t had anything to work with so not much to blame him for this year, but that alone might be fireable. I’d take Tebow over Shaw. Heck I’d take current day Michael Jordan over Shaw.
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Consider the following.... at the game today, after Russell gets HBP and is laying on the ground for a minute, some lady down the row makes a comment like “now he knows how it feels,” obviously in reference to his domestic violence allegations. Another lady in a Cubs shirt two rows in front turns around and says to the lady in the Brewer jersey “maybe your husband should beat your big mouth shut.” Lady in the Brewer jersey is stunned, doesn’t know how to react, especially since she wasn’t the one who said anything.
The first comment came from someone in a group of Cubs fans sitting together. The lady stuck in the middle of the group wearing the Brewers jersey, sitting with her son, takes every bit of it, pleading “I didn’t say anything” more than once, yet apparently nobody around her bothers to point out she wasn’t the culprit.
So what is one supposed to do after witnessing all this? Stand up and yell something in defense of an innocent from 25’ away, or simply mind your own business?
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Dombrowski fired in Boston. I imagine a back story will come out.
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Dombrowski fired in Boston. I imagine a back story will come out.
He did what Dombrowski does. Trade away the farm system and sign big contracts. It worked in Boston and almost worked in Detroit. But look at Detroit now. Boston likley knows they need to rebuild so they may as well start now.
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Dombrowski fired in Boston. I imagine a back story will come out.
IMO, there is no back story other than they need to clean up the mess he's made of the future. The Red Sox project to spend $80M a year for the next three years for three starters who are oft-injured and on the downside of their careers. JD Martinez will likely opt out and they won't be able to afford him because of those expenditures, and the horror of all horrors, after next season they will have trouble finding the money to sign Mookie Betts, who is in the discussion with a few other guys as the best baseball player this side of Mike Trout. The Red Sox went from one of the two or three best farm systems in baseball to one of the two or three worst under his stewardship.
The Red Sox knew what they're getting when they hired Dombrowski. This is what he does, he sells out the future to win today. Not bad if you win the World Series, but now you need a guy to straighten out the budget while staying competitive and that is not in his wheelhouse.
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Consider the following.... at the game today, after Russell gets HBP and is laying on the ground for a minute, some lady down the row makes a comment like “now he knows how it feels,” obviously in reference to his domestic violence allegations. Another lady in a Cubs shirt two rows in front turns around and says to the lady in the Brewer jersey “maybe your husband should beat your big mouth shut.” Lady in the Brewer jersey is stunned, doesn’t know how to react, especially since she wasn’t the one who said anything.
The first comment came from someone in a group of Cubs fans sitting together. The lady stuck in the middle of the group wearing the Brewers jersey, sitting with her son, takes every bit of it, pleading “I didn’t say anything” more than once, yet apparently nobody around her bothers to point out she wasn’t the culprit.
So what is one supposed to do after witnessing all this? Stand up and yell something in defense of an innocent from 25’ away, or simply mind your own business?
Given the behavior you see in the stands of a lot of baseball games recently, I'd mind my business. Especially if you're the kind of loser who not only defends Russell, but does so by wishing domestic violence on someone else. Last thing you need is someone wailing on you or accosting you. I got sucker punched resulting in stitches standing outside of a football game 7-8 years cause someone called a girl in our group a pretty disgusting word cause she rolled her eyes at a cat-call. I said "come on man, wtf, thats over the line" as we kept walking...and his buddy came flying in from behind and clocked me. That ended my sporting event verbal defenses.
I'm continually annoyed by Russell's continued presence on the team, even more now that he's stepping in with Javy's injury. I actually said "karma is a b****" to myself while he sat dazed on the ground.
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One month ago today, the Cubbies were 2.5 games up on Milwaukee and 3 up on St. Louis.
Now, they are three times closer to missing the playoffs (1.5 games up for 2nd wild-card spot) than they are to winning the division (4.5 games behind Cardinals).
One of the fun things about sports is the way this kind of thing can happen. Cubs and Cardinals still play each other 7x in the season's final 10 games, so who knows?
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One month ago today, the Cubbies were 2.5 games up on Milwaukee and 3 up on St. Louis.
Now, they are three times closer to missing the playoffs (1.5 games up for 2nd wild-card spot) than they are to winning the division (4.5 games behind Cardinals).
One of the fun things about sports is the way this kind of thing can happen. Cubs and Cardinals still play each other 7x in the season's final 10 games, so who knows?
Redbird flying high.
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I'm continually annoyed by Russell's continued presence on the team, even more now that he's stepping in with Javy's injury. I actually said "karma is a b****" to myself while he sat dazed on the ground.
Nico got called up today. Russell may be on the way to the pine.
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IMO, there is no back story other than they need to clean up the mess he's made of the future. The Red Sox project to spend $80M a year for the next three years for three starters who are oft-injured and on the downside of their careers. JD Martinez will likely opt out and they won't be able to afford him because of those expenditures, and the horror of all horrors, after next season they will have trouble finding the money to sign Mookie Betts, who is in the discussion with a few other guys as the best baseball player this side of Mike Trout. The Red Sox went from one of the two or three best farm systems in baseball to one of the two or three worst under his stewardship.
The Red Sox knew what they're getting when they hired Dombrowski. This is what he does, he sells out the future to win today. Not bad if you win the World Series, but now you need a guy to straighten out the budget while staying competitive and that is not in his wheelhouse.
I'm largely on board with this, but ownership has a cross to bear here, too.
It doesn't make sense to bring in Dombrowski if you see the luxury tax as a hard salary cap - especially if you're the Red Sox. He's always going to spend money and Boston is always going to have it. And its not like he's totally screwed them over, Boston's luxury tax bill this year is $13,000. The farm system drop is more due to promotions than wasteful trades - Benintendi, Devers, Sam Travis, Marco Hernandez, and Michael Chavis were all in the top 10 in their system in 2017 and are all on the big league roster now.
I think this is as much an organizational turn/scapegoat for having misread how teams would - ahem - implicitly agree not to spend money after the new CBA. Sure, paying $60M to Price and Sale isn't great, but its also not fatal to paying Betts - unless you're straight up unwilling to live in the tax (the Eovaldi deal will always be bad).
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One month ago today, the Cubbies were 2.5 games up on Milwaukee and 3 up on St. Louis.
Now, they are three times closer to missing the playoffs (1.5 games up for 2nd wild-card spot) than they are to winning the division (4.5 games behind Cardinals).
One of the fun things about sports is the way this kind of thing can happen. Cubs and Cardinals still play each other 7x in the season's final 10 games, so who knows?
I sense that someone will pass the Cubs for the last spot. Not playing great and .500 ball down the stretch will not do it.
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I'm largely on board with this, but ownership has a cross to bear here, too.
It doesn't make sense to bring in Dombrowski if you see the luxury tax as a hard salary cap - especially if you're the Red Sox. He's always going to spend money and Boston is always going to have it. And its not like he's totally screwed them over, Boston's luxury tax bill this year is $13,000. The farm system drop is more due to promotions than wasteful trades - Benintendi, Devers, Sam Travis, Marco Hernandez, and Michael Chavis were all in the top 10 in their system in 2017 and are all on the big league roster now.
I think this is as much an organizational turn/scapegoat for having misread how teams would - ahem - implicitly agree not to spend money after the new CBA. Sure, paying $60M to Price and Sale isn't great, but its also not fatal to paying Betts - unless you're straight up unwilling to live in the tax (the Eovaldi deal will always be bad).
I agree with you, for the most part. You always have to blame upper management because they have to agree to the deals, too. They brought in a guy who does a specific thing, and he did that specific thing well, leaving the issues he always leaves. Not to mention that he can't unilaterally decide to pay whatever he wants to whoever he wants.
I don't think Dombrowski failed at all. But what he does best is not what the Sox need now, so they are moving on. Frankly, I think they would be more consistently good if they never hired him, given that the good core gathered by Cherington before they showed him the door, but he gave them a shorter window with a better shot at a World Series championship and fortunately they got it.
One other smart thing he did when trading all the prospects was making sure the Red Sox held on to Devers at all costs. That kid is special.
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I sense that someone will pass the Cubs for the last spot. Not playing great and .500 ball down the stretch will not do it.
Hard to believe that could happen to a team with so much high-priced talent, but it wouldn't be stunning. Lots of injuries, slumps and other bad juju going on now.
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Hard to believe that could happen to a team with so much high-priced talent, but it wouldn't be stunning. Lots of injuries, slumps and other bad juju going on now.
The talent isnt totally that high priced, most of their key position players outside of Heyward are from within the organization and reasonably priced. Its the pitching that was pricey and has been disastrous.
People mocked Cubs fans for not being pro-Maddon but this is a second straight year in their window that they are fading down the stretch. He's a chemistry, clubhouse, good juju guy and they just don't have it any more. Time to give him a special advisor role in the FO, get a cheaper manager, and move on.
The front office messed up with pitching. Paying $12MM to Chatwood who is a bum and now a reliever, I never like Darvish (hes been better but still is wildly inconsistent), and you knew Lester would get old and he did what he was brought in to do, but you don't expect a guy making $30MM to fall off as hard and as fast as he has.
They aren't out of it, but no Baez, the ghost of Lester every 5 days, and no closer....its not promising
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The talent isnt totally that high priced, most of their key position players outside of Heyward are from within the organization and reasonably priced. Its the pitching that was pricey and has been disastrous.
People mocked Cubs fans for not being pro-Maddon but this is a second straight year in their window that they are fading down the stretch. He's a chemistry, clubhouse, good juju guy and they just don't have it any more. Time to give him a special advisor role in the FO, get a cheaper manager, and move on.
The front office messed up with pitching. Paying $12MM to Chatwood who is a bum and now a reliever, I never like Darvish (hes been better but still is wildly inconsistent), and you knew Lester would get old and he did what he was brought in to do, but you don't expect a guy making $30MM to fall off as hard and as fast as he has.
They aren't out of it, but no Baez, the ghost of Lester every 5 days, and no closer....its not promising
Well, the Cubs did open the season with the second-highest payroll in the majors, only a few million behind the Red Sox and actually ahead of the Yankees and Dodgers. And they since have committed big money to their injured closer.
So whether pitchers, position players or whatever, they have a lot of high-priced players. If you want to say their high-priced players aren't "talent," that's up to you.
Otherwise, I agree with your post.
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After that performance Russell may be worried about being shown the door at seasons end
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Well, the Cubs did open the season with the second-highest payroll in the majors, only a few million behind the Red Sox and actually ahead of the Yankees and Dodgers. And they since have committed big money to their injured closer.
So whether pitchers, position players or whatever, they have a lot of high-priced players. If you want to say their high-priced players aren't "talent," that's up to you.
Otherwise, I agree with your post.
I think it was more my frustration with how the season is playing out. Javy, Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, Hendricks, Contreras. A lot of the key guys that have fueled the success that people associate with the Cubs are all on reasonable deals. The irony is they have this inflated huge payroll, and the ones fueling that aren't producing. There is no denying their payroll is huge
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As we talk about the Red Sox and Cubs somewhat similar positions, I wonder if we'll ever see an amnesty provision floated for future baseball CBAs. That was a big item for the NBA, where teams each had the ability to simply wipe away a bad contract from their cap hit. Its popular for the PA because it wipes each team's worst contract off its books thereby ramping free agency back up for a few years. And its popular among ownership because it limits the damage of increasing payrolls to just one contract, as opposed to wholesale changes to cap, luxury tax, etc. Its also been floated at the 30,000 foot level for the NFL, particularly QBs, to combat the "sign the QB and be in salary cap hell or win with a QB on a rookie deal" conundrum.
As appealing as amnestying contracts is in the NBA and NFL, it would seem absolutely best suited for MLB pitchers. We can go round and round about position player spending, but ultimately Harper and Machado got theirs, as will Betts and any other position players with four + tools. The pitchers are who are getting killed by ownership treating the tax as a hard cap, and a big part of that is injury fears. A structure that would allow each team to waive/amnesty one player every, idk, 3-5 years would really help counter the push against signing pitchers, and it might even have a slight competitive balance benefit to boot.
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I think it was more my frustration with how the season is playing out. Javy, Bryant, Rizzo, Schwarber, Hendricks, Contreras. A lot of the key guys that have fueled the success that people associate with the Cubs are all on reasonable deals. The irony is they have this inflated huge payroll, and the ones fueling that aren't producing. There is no denying their payroll is huge
Understood. Thanks.
As we talk about the Red Sox and Cubs somewhat similar positions, I wonder if we'll ever see an amnesty provision floated for future baseball CBAs. That was a big item for the NBA, where teams each had the ability to simply wipe away a bad contract from their cap hit. Its popular for the PA because it wipes each team's worst contract off its books thereby ramping free agency back up for a few years. And its popular among ownership because it limits the damage of increasing payrolls to just one contract, as opposed to wholesale changes to cap, luxury tax, etc. Its also been floated at the 30,000 foot level for the NFL, particularly QBs, to combat the "sign the QB and be in salary cap hell or win with a QB on a rookie deal" conundrum.
As appealing as amnestying contracts is in the NBA and NFL, it would seem absolutely best suited for MLB pitchers. We can go round and round about position player spending, but ultimately Harper and Machado got theirs, as will Betts and any other position players with four + tools. The pitchers are who are getting killed by ownership treating the tax as a hard cap, and a big part of that is injury fears. A structure that would allow each team to waive/amnesty one player every, idk, 3-5 years would really help counter the push against signing pitchers, and it might even have a slight competitive balance benefit to boot.
So, MUB, the idea is that this amnesty would help teams stay under the luxury-tax threshold?
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Wasn't the amnesty deal in the NBA a one time thing as they transitioned to a new CBA structure?
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There was a round table discussion over the weekend on ESPN about NOT even including QB salaries in the NFL salary cap.
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Wasn't the amnesty deal in the NBA a one time thing as they transitioned to a new CBA structure?
I believe that's right. I think each team had like 3 years to use it or lose it once the most recent CBA was signed. And I might be wrong on this, but I think all amnestied contracts had to be in force as of the date of the CBA. So you couldn't sign a reckless deal after the CBA knowing you had an ace up your sleeve.
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So, MUB, the idea is that this amnesty would help teams stay under the luxury-tax threshold?
That's right. I'm sure there are a bunch of ways to write it, but in my mind once every 5 years you would be able to waive a player and his salary would no longer count in your luxury tax number. The team would still be obligated to pay him, but the AAV of the contract would be nonexistent from a tax calculation standpoint.
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Understood. Thanks.
So, MUB, the idea is that this amnesty would help teams stay under the luxury-tax threshold?
So it would help the four or five teams that hit the luxury tax threshold? Great. Let's make it even easier for the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Astros, and Cubs while doing nothing for the mid-to-small market teams.
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That's right. I'm sure there are a bunch of ways to write it, but in my mind once every 5 years you would be able to waive a player and his salary would no longer count in your luxury tax number. The team would still be obligated to pay him, but the AAV of the contract would be nonexistent from a tax calculation standpoint.
Understood.
Not sure it's necessary for the good of the game, but it's an interesting idea.
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So it would help the four or five teams that hit the luxury tax threshold? Great. Let's make it even easier for the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Astros, and Cubs while doing nothing for the mid-to-small market teams.
Every team in MLB can afford to reach the luxury tax. Their owners just chose not to.
If anything the luxury tax threshold hurts the big teams who have the resources to surpass it.
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Every team in MLB can afford to reach the luxury tax. Their owners just chose not to.
That's kind of like saying, "Every Scooper can afford to buy a Lamborghini. Everyone (except Rocky) just choses not to."
IOW, to say that every team can hit the luxury tax is way outside the venn overlap between 'possible' and 'reasonable.'
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That's kind of like saying, "Every Scooper can afford to buy a Lamborghini. Everyone (except Rocky) just choses not to."
IOW, to say that every team can hit the luxury tax is way outside the venn overlap between 'possible' and 'reasonable.'
Alright maybe reaching the luxury tax was an exaggeration but every team can afford to spend a lot more than they do.
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That's kind of like saying, "Every Scooper can afford to buy a Lamborghini. Everyone (except Rocky) just choses not to."
IOW, to say that every team can hit the luxury tax is way outside the venn overlap between 'possible' and 'reasonable.'
I agree that every team is a stretch, but in 2018, only two teams in the lower 1/2 of MLB revenues spent more than one-half of total revenues on luxury tax payroll, and that was the Reds (who traded to take on a ton of salary) and the Brewers who qualify by $1M. You may be right that a bunch of teams couldn't hit the $206M payroll number, but you could multiply the payrolls of the bottom half of baseball by 1.5 and the owners of those teams would be fine. Only exceptions would be the Rays (worst revenue generating setup in baseball), Marlins (that undercapitalized group should never have been allowed to buy in the first place) and the A's (second worst revenue generating setup in baseball).
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Yelich out for the year. What a punch in the gut.
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Yelich out for the year. What a punch in the gut.
Fractured knee cap.
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No Baez and no Yelich for the stretch run is cruel for baseball fans. But Yelich’s relative impact is obviously far greater and more profound.
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Would’ve been the first outfielder since Barry Bonds to win back to back MVPs. Brutal.
Open up the checkbook Mark. Bring back Yas and Moose and run the offense back with a full year of Keston instead of continuing to trot Shaw out there.
Then go out and bring Wade Miley back and add a bullpen arm or two.
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Could have been the first member of the 50-30 club.
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He was having a season for the ages. What a brutal way for it to end.
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Would’ve been the first outfielder since Barry Bonds to win back to back MVPs. Brutal.
Open up the checkbook Mark. Bring back Yas and Moose and run the offense back with a full year of Keston instead of continuing to trot Shaw out there.
Then go out and bring Wade Miley back and add a bullpen arm or two.
Trout was robbed, or he would have accomplished that already
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Trout was robbed, or he would have accomplished that already
So...Yelich would’ve been the first outfielder since Barry Bonds to win back to back MVPs.
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So...Yelich would’ve been the first outfielder since Barry Bonds to win back to back MVPs.
You don’t know that either. But if it makes you feel better, sure. It’s as if Cody Bellinger isn’t playing.
Article from yesterday, Bellinger likely leading 2:1 NL MVP race before this injury to Yellich
https://www.mlb.com/news/cody-bellinger-mike-trout-ahead-in-mvp-races
Not sure why you are so certain he was going to win....great guy, great player, great season, but no way certain.
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No Baez and no Yelich for the stretch run is cruel for baseball fans. But Yelich’s relative impact is obviously far greater and more profound.
It makes the pissing match thread joyless.
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If the Brewers miss the playoff, the MVP would go to Bellinger assuming a healthy Yelich.
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You don’t know that either. But if it makes you feel better, sure. It’s as if Cody Bellinger isn’t playing.
Article from yesterday, Bellinger likely leading 2:1 NL MVP race before this injury to Yellich
https://www.mlb.com/news/cody-bellinger-mike-trout-ahead-in-mvp-races
Not sure why you are so certain he was going to win....great guy, great player, great season, but no way certain.
Yelich was going to go 5-5 in each of the remaining 19 games, and finish the season batting .438. There is no way they wouldn't have given him the MVP.
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Or Yelich was just going to continue to be the best offensive player in the NL and the MVP goes to the best offensive player in the league like it has 95% of the time? Not that hard of a concept.
You can find articles for anything you want. Also an article from yesterday.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27578279/mlb-awards-watch-nl-mvp-cy-young-races-going-wire
Standings don't mean nearly as much in baseball MVP voting as they do in basketball or football. Giancarlo Stanton won the NL MVP 2 years ago on a team that won 77 games.
Not to mention how valuable can Bellinger really be to the Dodgers? With him they win the NL West by 20 games? Without him they win the NL West by maybe 15 games? With Yelich it looks like there was a pretty good chance the Brewers make a second straight September run to make the Post Season (1 game back in the Wild Card, 2 games left with the Marlins, 3 games left with the Cards, 4 games left with the Padres, 3 games left with the Pirates, Reds, and Rockies). Without him I'm not sure they finish above fourth place in their division.
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You don’t know that either. But if it makes you feel better, sure. It’s as if Cody Bellinger isn’t playing.
Article from yesterday, Bellinger likely leading 2:1 NL MVP race before this injury to Yellich
https://www.mlb.com/news/cody-bellinger-mike-trout-ahead-in-mvp-races
Not sure why you are so certain he was going to win....great guy, great player, great season, but no way certain.
Please keep your liberal, west-coast biases away from Scoop. This is a politics-free zone.
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The Mariners have a 1995-2019 record since 1995. Or from 1995-2019.
Yesterday Bruce Boche had a 1995-2019 managerial record over his time as a manager from 1995-2019.
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Yelich was hands down the leader for MVP. Done deal until he got hurt, quite the bummer as baseball is better with Yelich.
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Yelich was hands down the leader for MVP. Done deal until he got hurt, quite the bummer as baseball is better with Yelich.
Yelich had the better numbers - not by a lot, but clearly better.
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Both Yelich and Bellinger were putting up MVP numbers. Bellinger's remarkable start ended the NL West race early and Yelich has kept the Brewers from falling off the map. My vote goes to Yelich because A) he doesn't get to take off games defensively at 1B, B) stolen bases and C) I prefer the Brewers to the Dodgers. But any edge is razor thin, not a slam dunk by any means.
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The Mariners have a 1995-2019 record since 1995. Or from 1995-2019.
Yesterday Bruce Boche had a 1995-2019 managerial record over his time as a manager from 1995-2019.
That's hilarious. Where'd you see that?
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That's hilarious. Where'd you see that?
Reddit and then ultimately it made the broadcast.
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6 in a row for the Crew.
Yelich dodges a bullet and won’t need surgery. That’s a positive.
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Yelich was hands down the leader for MVP. Done deal until he got hurt, quite the bummer as baseball is better with Yelich.
Hands down except at MLB.com and their voters...got it...hands down.
CBS....Bellinger one to beat. https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-awards-nl-mvp-race-still-looks-like-cody-bellinger-vs-christian-yelich-will-anyone-else-make-a-late-push/
Hands down....LOL
Look, he may win it, in fact he might even get some sympathy votes now, but almost everyone that does this stuff is saying two man race and too close to call. But hands down...
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Yelich had the better numbers - not by a lot, but clearly better.
Bellinger has higher WAR, by quite a bit....defense also matters, it isn’t just about hitting.
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Bellinger has higher WAR, by quite a bit....defense also matters, it isn’t just about hitting.
The MVP is very rarely about defense. Almost never. Almost never even a consideration.
Between Brooks Robinson, Ozzie Smith, Nolan Arenado and Omar Vizquel they have 1 MVP, and something like a million gold gloves.
The list of defensive butchers with MVPs is too numerous to mention.
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If the Brewers go on to make the playoffs without Yelich, I guess that will "prove" that he wasn't really most valuable.
I'm just kidding, of course, but there are so many ways to define "value." It's one reason the MVP awards are always such great fodder for debate.
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Bellinger has higher WAR, by quite a bit....defense also matters, it isn’t just about hitting.
Except that it's almost always about only hitting.
And winning the MVP when he misses the last 20 games? If you believe he actually could do that then PTM is 100% correct, he was hands down, far and away, the NL MVP when he got hurt if that's the case.
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The MVP is very rarely about defense. Almost never. Almost never even a consideration.
Between Brooks Robinson, Ozzie Smith, Nolan Arenado and Omar Vizquel they have 1 MVP, and something like a million gold gloves.
The list of defensive butchers with MVPs is too numerous to mention.
That’s fine, but for some voters it is the complete player. That’s one of the reason’s a DH, to my knowledge, has never won the MVP with DH being the primary role on the team. There have been 3 or 4 that DH was a role, but not the primary role of the player. Baylor and Rice being two I can recall. Defense does matter to some voters in the overall evaluation and they have said as much. With today’s more advanced stats like WAR that include defense, it will be even more common.
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Except that it's almost always about only hitting.
And winning the MVP when he misses the last 20 games? If you believe he actually could do that then PTM is 100% correct, he was hands down, far and away, the NL MVP when he got hurt if that's the case.
I said sympathy vote....again, hands down is comical, but sure he could win because he has had a great year. Just about everyone worth a damn saying razor thin race with more than enough legit actual voters saying each has the lead before the injury. It all depends how voters decide to weigh the injury. Hands down and your statement are just homerism.
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Odds on mvp prior to injury....... Bellinger
https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/mlb/nl-al-mvp-odds/
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I said sympathy vote....again, hands down is comical, but sure he could win because he has had a great year. Just about everyone worth a damn saying razor thin race with more than enough legit actual voters saying each has the lead before the injury. It all depends how voters decide to weigh the injury. Hands down and your statement are just homerism.
Homerism by a Cubs fan pushing Yelich. Interesting.
I’ll say it again. If you think Yelich has a chance to win the MVP, knowing he’s going to miss the last 20 games of the season, or 1/8 of a season, then when he got injured (when we started discussing it) Yelich was hands down, far and away the runaway to win the MVP.
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We're tied gentlemen. I'll take Couns every day and twice on Sunday against Maddon down the stretch. Now let's see if the boys can pull it out. #Crew
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We're tied gentlemen. I'll take Couns every day and twice on Sunday against Maddon down the stretch. Now let's see if the boys can pull it out. #Crew
Still gotta win the games, but Brew Crew schedule is so much easier down the stretch.
Heck, they could put all kinds of pressure on not just the Cubs but also the Cards if they can sweep the series that starts tomorrow in St. Louis. Cardinals have by far the most difficult remaining sked of the three.
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Still gotta win the games, but Brew Crew schedule is so much easier down the stretch.
Heck, they could put all kinds of pressure on not just the Cubs but also the Cards if they can sweep the series that starts tomorrow in St. Louis. Cardinals have by far the most difficult remaining sked of the three.
Ironically 82, where the Crew has faltered all year is against the sub .500 teams. 17 to go. I think most fans would be pretty happy about a WC game. This year has been a real struggle at times.
BTW, the unconfirmed reports about Yeli are 6 weeks. That would just be enough time to be activated for the WS. Yeah, I know, I know. :)
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Ironically 82, where the Crew has faltered all year is against the sub .500 teams. 17 to go. I think most fans would be pretty happy about a WC game. This year has been a real struggle at times.
BTW, the unconfirmed reports about Yeli are 6 weeks. That would just be enough time to be activated for the WS. Yeah, I know, I know. :)
Yelich is real easy to root for. I'm hoping for a speedy, full recovery.
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Would’ve been the first outfielder since Barry Bonds to win back to back MVPs. Brutal.
Open up the checkbook Mark. Bring back Yas and Moose and run the offense back with a full year of Keston instead of continuing to trot Shaw out there.
Then go out and bring Wade Miley back and add a bullpen arm or two.
Mark open his checkbook... yeah, that won’t ever happen. It’s amazing the brewers do as well as they do with such a tight owner.
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Mark open his checkbook... yeah, that won’t ever happen. It’s amazing the brewers do as well as they do with such a tight owner.
::)
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::)
Not just my words. Other brewer management tell me the same.
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[...] It’s amazing the brewers do as well as they do with such a tight owner.
lol serious internet man wants to be taken seriously.
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Mark open his checkbook... yeah, that won’t ever happen. It’s amazing the brewers do as well as they do with such a tight owner.
Lol what? Milwaukee is the smallest market in Major League Baseball and has the 15th highest payroll in the MLB. Their payroll is a record high for the organization this year.
Attanasio has been incredible for the Brewers and Milwaukee.
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Lol what? Milwaukee is the smallest market in Major League Baseball and has the 15th highest payroll in the MLB. Their payroll is a record high for the organization this year.
Attanasio has been incredible for the Brewers and Milwaukee.
Word.
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Lol what? Milwaukee is the smallest market in Major League Baseball and has the 15th highest payroll in the MLB. Their payroll is a record high for the organization this year.
Attanasio has been incredible for the Brewers and Milwaukee.
When the Brewers were considering bringing in Craig Kimbrel, mark made it very clear if he signs him, “don’t expect to get anyone else the rest of the year”
If not for Yelich, where would the Brewers be?
Yes the brewers have the 15th highest payroll in the mlb, but also have fans to back why mark should be spending.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance
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Not just my words. Other brewer management tell me the same.
You're as tied in to the Brewers as TinyDickTim is at MU, I see. ::)
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When the Brewers were considering bringing in Craig Kimbrel, mark made it very clear if he signs him, “don’t expect to get anyone else the rest of the year”
If not for Yelich, where would the Brewers be?
Yes the brewers have the 15th highest payroll in the mlb, but also have fans to back why mark should be spending.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance
I'm completely fine with Mark not paying Craig Kimbrel $15M for the next 3 years.
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Not just my words. Other brewer management tell me the same.
Dude... wearing an orange shirt with a button that says 'Supervisor' on it doesn't qualify you as "Brewer management." I don't care how many raffle tickets you sold last week.
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Dude... wearing an orange shirt with a button that says 'Supervisor' on it doesn't qualify you as "Brewer management." I don't care how many raffle tickets you sold last week.
He flies them on their private jets. Because I'm certain the rest of the Brewers front office is really anxious to air all their issues about the owners with their pilot, who then goes and shares it on MUScoop. ::)
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When the Brewers were considering bringing in Craig Kimbrel, mark made it very clear if he signs him, “don’t expect to get anyone else the rest of the year”
If not for Yelich, where would the Brewers be?
Yes the brewers have the 15th highest payroll in the mlb, but also have fans to back why mark should be spending.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance
Yeah but Milwaukee's local television revenue is near the bottom of the league. According to this estimation, only Colorado, KC, Miami and Tampa earns less.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/estimated-tv-revenues-for-all-30-mlb-teams/
If you look at this list of 2018 team revenue, the Brewers are 16th.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/193645/revenue-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/
So right about where their payroll is located.
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He flies them on their private jets. Because I'm certain the rest of the Brewers front office is really anxious to air all their issues about the owners with their pilot, who then goes and shares it on MUScoop. ::)
Called networking, you wouldn’t know a thing about it in your office cubical.
If you want my credentials let me know when you’re at the park, I’ll meet you behind home plate and can introduce you.
Same offer goes to everyone else. There’s about 10 home games left, let me know when you’re all going and I’ll meet you there.
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Called networking, you wouldn’t know a thing about it in your office cubical.
If you want my credentials let me know when you’re at the park, I’ll meet you behind home plate and can introduce you.
Same offer goes to everyone else. There’s about 10 home games left, let me know when you’re all going and I’ll meet you there.
Are you Front Row Amy?
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Called networking, you wouldn’t know a thing about it in your office cubical.
If you want my credentials let me know when you’re at the park, I’ll meet you behind home plate and can introduce you.
Same offer goes to everyone else. There’s about 10 home games left, let me know when you’re all going and I’ll meet you there.
Lol. I'm starting to see a theme amongst the pilots of MUScoop...
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Lol. I'm starting to see a theme amongst the pilots of MUScoop...
My offer stands, anyone is welcome to meet me at the park.
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Are you Front Row Amy?
Nah, its Marlins Man!
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My offer stands, anyone is welcome to meet me at the park.
Congratulations. I'm quite confident that any Brewers fan on Scoop has sat within the first 5 rows behind home plate at some point. We aren't talking about Fenway Park here. Those tickets aren't that hard to get.
But you da man.
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Congratulations. I'm quite confident that any Brewers fan on Scoop has sat within the first 5 rows behind home plate at some point. We aren't talking about Fenway Park here. Those tickets aren't that hard to get.
But you da man.
Well considering Brewers family sits in rows 20 and further back, I wouldn’t be in the first 5 rows big Chief.
Again, I have an open invitation to anyone who wants to meet, see some of the players after the game, and go on the field.
You da man for talking sh*t, but refusing to accept. Tell you what, I’ll get you some tickets too. How many? 1?
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When we were talking luxury tax earlier in the thread, I started to look at team payroll spends as a % of total revenue. I gave up because you could spend all day on that, but I'd be curious to see year over year how the Brewers stack up. The one year I looked at (2017) they were one of two teams in the league's bottom half of revenue whose payroll was > 50% of total revenues. I'd bet they stack up pretty favorably on that score year over year.
(Disclaimer - that measurement obviously starts to fall apart when you look at the upper echelon, who make a magnitude more money than everyone else - NYY, Bos, LAD make so much money that % of revenues isn't a useful measurement for payroll, though their revenues do suggest they shouldn't have a problem paying some tax most years, with maybe a year off here and there to get rid of the repeater penalties)
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When we were talking luxury tax earlier in the thread, I started to look at team payroll spends as a % of total revenue. I gave up because you could spend all day on that, but I'd be curious to see year over year how the Brewers stack up. The one year I looked at (2017) they were one of two teams in the league's bottom half of revenue whose payroll was > 50% of total revenues. I'd bet they stack up pretty favorably on that score year over year.
(Disclaimer - that measurement obviously starts to fall apart when you look at the upper echelon, who make a magnitude more money than everyone else - NYY, Bos, LAD make so much money that % of revenues isn't a useful measurement for payroll, though their revenues do suggest they shouldn't have a problem paying some tax most years, with maybe a year off here and there to get rid of the repeater penalties)
Curious, st.Louis is a small market, yet is post season contenders every year. They have no problems gathering talent, paying top dollar for free agents, etc. how do the brewers get to that?
Obviously the cardinals have a rich history, and a great fan base, so how can the brewers get to that level?
Similar to the Packers, except there is no single owner.
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Bellinger has higher WAR, by quite a bit....defense also matters, it isn’t just about hitting.
Depends on the source. Fangraphs has Yelich 7.7 vs. Beli 7.1. B/R has Beli 8.1 vs. Yeli 7.1
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Well considering Brewers family sits in rows 20 and further back, I wouldn’t be in the first 5 rows big Chief.
Again, I have an open invitation to anyone who wants to meet, see some of the players after the game, and go on the field.
You da man for talking sh*t, but refusing to accept. Tell you what, I’ll get you some tickets too. How many? 1?
I'm roughly 12-15 years beyond caring about meeting the players and their families. If I happen to run into one on a street? It's very cool. Am I going to go out of my way to try to make sure I meet them? Not really interested in that. I appreciate the offer though.
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Nah, its Marlins Man!
Wait a second....Bad Reporter as a user name. This must be Jeff Poytrukus!
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Depends on the source. Fangraphs has Yelich 7.7 vs. Beli 7.1. B/R has Beli 8.1 vs. Yeli 7.1
True. Point remains it was toss up depending on POV.
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Curious, st.Louis is a small market, yet is post season contenders every year. They have no problems gathering talent, paying top dollar for free agents, etc. how do the brewers get to that?
Obviously the cardinals have a rich history, and a great fan base, so how can the brewers get to that level?
Similar to the Packers, except there is no single owner.
My thought is they are a very well run organization. They always seem to have some good pitching that they’ve developed and their players are fundamentally sound. They don’t beat themselves. It’s very cliche but I think they have always been good at doing the little things.
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Curious, st.Louis is a small market, yet is post season contenders every year. They have no problems gathering talent, paying top dollar for free agents, etc. how do the brewers get to that?
Obviously the cardinals have a rich history, and a great fan base, so how can the brewers get to that level?
Similar to the Packers, except there is no single owner.
1. St. Louis has more revenue due to their television contract. So their overall payroll is higher
2. They actually don't pay "top dollar for free agents." Their highest paid player (Molina) is tied for the 35th largest salary in baseball. Their second highest paid (Fowler) is 59th. (Tied with Khris Davis and Ian Kennedy)
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My thought is they are a very well run organization. They always seem to have some good pitching that they’ve developed and their players are fundamentally sound. They don’t beat themselves. It’s very cliche but I think they have always been good at doing the little things.
They have been great under John Mozeliak. And before that under Walt Jocketty. They find value in the draft and on the "next tier" of free agents. It really isn't about opening the checkbook and buying the best guys out there.
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1. St. Louis has more revenue due to their television contract. So their overall payroll is higher
2. They actually don't pay "top dollar for free agents." Their highest paid player (Molina) is tied for the 35th largest salary in baseball. Their second highest paid (Fowler) is 59th. (Tied with Khris Davis and Ian Kennedy)
Think you forgot Goldschmidt.
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Think you forgot Goldschmidt.
His extension doesn't kick in until next year. And it will be the 15th largest as of now.
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My thought is they are a very well run organization. They always seem to have some good pitching that they’ve developed and their players are fundamentally sound. They don’t beat themselves. It’s very cliche but I think they have always been good at doing the little things.
They hack other teams to find proprietary data to help better themselves. I mean, they have superior advanced analytics. 8-)
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Depends on the source. Fangraphs has Yelich 7.7 vs. Beli 7.1. B/R has Beli 8.1 vs. Yeli 7.1
I think the moral of the story here is they were both having tremendous seasons. Either would have been a great candidate to win the MVP. They both have been putting up great numbers. Now, with the injury to Yelich, it seems like Bellinger is the odds on favorite to win.
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The Cardinals?
Large fan base. First team West of Mississippi. Back in the day their flagship radio station reached almost all 50 states. Some people became fans from far away places. They win. They’ve been winning at a high level every other decade since the 1800’s. Missouri borders 8 states. Minor league systems over the years have been in several of those states plus Florida. In the summer many of their weekend crowds arguably have more out of town Cards fans on a road trip than locals (of which are many as well)
3 million fans annually for over 20 plus straight seasons. Many of those were 3.5 million.They first drew 3 million in a season in the 1980’s.
Their current television deal is $1 billion over 15 years. They have been in the top 3 or better in MLB local tv ratings for over a few decades.
When the current owners bought the team in 1996, they paid $150 million. The deal included the nearby parking garages. They immediately sold the garages back for $75 million. Current team valuation has been listed by Forbes as $2.1 billion (2018), which comes in at 7th. They are also currently finishing phase 2 of a multiple phase several hundred million dollar development project in the neighborhood around the stadium. The Cardinals are able to compete larger than their top 20 National market size. They are top 10-ish spenders. They are not going to outspend the Biggest Market teams, but they will be competitive in the next tier after that.
I thought they needed a couple of more big hitters in the off season this year. Still think so. But their pitching has been so good to make up the difference to this point. It isn’t a lock by any means for them to win the division or make the playoffs this season. They are in a good position. But they’ll have to win games against the Brewers, Cubs, Nationals, etc..down the stretch. Expectations are always high there. It is a more forgive-able media and fan base than NYC or Boston but expectations are always high. It is not an organization that will tank seasons to rebuild. And doing it that way is challenging to be competitive almost annually.
Fun fact: The Cardinals tried to acquire Yelich from the Marlins but Miami would not make him available for a trade. The Cardinals then traded for Ozuna instead.
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Channeling their inner Yeli. On to SLU. #Crew
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Fun fact: The Cardinals tried to acquire Yelich from the Marlins but Miami would not make him available for a trade. The Cardinals then traded for Ozuna instead.
They tried to acquire that whole outfield of Stanton, Ozuna, and Yelich.
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They tried to acquire that whole outfield of Stanton, Ozuna, and Yelich.
This is true.
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Well considering Brewers family sits in rows 20 and further back, I wouldn’t be in the first 5 rows big Chief.
Again, I have an open invitation to anyone who wants to meet, see some of the players after the game, and go on the field.
You da man for talking sh*t, but refusing to accept. Tell you what, I’ll get you some tickets too. How many? 1?
Ha! My seats are better than yours!
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They hack other teams to find proprietary data to help better themselves. I mean, they have superior advanced analytics. 8-)
I know this is teal, but really, what else could it be?
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His extension doesn't kick in until next year. And it will be the 15th largest as of now.
Ah. Got it. Thanks.
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Depends on the source. Fangraphs has Yelich 7.7 vs. Beli 7.1. B/R has Beli 8.1 vs. Yeli 7.1
Fair point. I think it proves out that it is razor thin and anyone saying hands down or certain to win is nothing but a homer.
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I've been a Cardinal fan since the 1960s and I think there are a couple of reasons why the Cardinals are so good for so long.
1) As other posters illustrated, the Cardinals have a very loyal fan base. Before 1957, they were it west of the Mississippi. That's a long time ago but baseball traditions are generational. Father to son. Mother to daughter. Heck, Kansas City should own a good part of Missouri and everything in the Great Plains. They don't. The Cardinals do.
2) For years, the Cardinals had Anheuser-Busch as an owner. Sometimes the Brewery invested more, sometimes less. But the Cardinals for a generation were directly associated with Budweiser and Busch Beers. The corporate strength of AB helped make the team a national team.
3) Sorry, but Cardinal fans are demanding fans. I've been critical of Cub fans before as putting up with crap. Cardinal fans will tolerate a bad team for a short time it if the team is trying to win. But if the team is a bunch of losers, as it was in the late 1970s, the fans will find something else to do. Boating in the Ozarks, gambling on the Mississippi or growing grass in Chesterfield. Cardinal fans are hard-working fans and they're not going to spend their money wastefully. Plus, the team's success has spoiled them. Ownership knows this.
4) Cub fans will put up with crap because Wrigley Field is the eighth wonder of the world. Brewer fans will tolerate it because they're ever hopeful goodness is just around the corner and if, we get lucky, they'll be there when it started!
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Fair point. I think it proves out that it is razor thin and anyone saying hands down or certain to win is nothing but a homer.
Honest question, do you know what it means to be a homer?
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dgies,
I think a lot of what you write about the Cards is correct. There's one other important factor in play and that's the simple reality that they are really the only game in town. Sure St. Louis has had its occasional 'rental' football team but they have a weak history in that regard. Sure they have hockey but little success until just now and zero national relevance. And their last foray into basketball was an unknown ABA team if I'm recalling correctly. On top of that, St. Louis (and Missouri for that matter) have no presence in any major college sport with the pinnacle probably being Mizzou football, now a complete after though misplaced in the SEC. That means that essentially ALL the sports dollars flow into the Cards. St. Louis is a baseball town because it very much has to be a baseball town.
I'm not being critical. It's one of the great franchises. Upper quartile in MLB, for sure. Probably the only non-coastal team in that regard save the Cubs and perhaps the Braves.
I guess the one thing that I also reflect on is how wonderful we really have it in Wisconsin. The Big 3 sports played at a good to great level with outstanding history plus championships (mostly in football) and MVPs galore. GREAT college sports including football, basketball and hockey. World class venues. It's all good. We're truly blessed.
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Yeah but Milwaukee's local television revenue is near the bottom of the league. According to this estimation, only Colorado, KC, Miami and Tampa earns less.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/estimated-tv-revenues-for-all-30-mlb-teams/
If you look at this list of 2018 team revenue, the Brewers are 16th.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/193645/revenue-of-major-league-baseball-teams-in-2010/
So right about where their payroll is located.
But, a third of the Brewers revenue is from Cubs fans.
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SportsLine's postseason odds: Brewers, 55.1 percent; Cubs, 37.1 percent
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-wild-card-standings-magic-numbers-mlb-playoff-odds-as-cubs-and-brewers-neck-and-neck-down-the-stretch/amp/
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I'm not being critical. It's one of the great franchises. Upper quartile in MLB, for sure. Probably the only non-coastal team in that regard save the Cubs and perhaps the Braves.
I think saying they are upper quartile is way to conservative. They are likely the 2nd most successful franchise ever (Yankees, obviously). Maybe you could make arguments for teams like the Dodgers or Giants being there with them. But I don't think there are any other teams that can stack up to what the Cardinals have accomplished in the history of their franchise. They have had consistent success since the 20's. Heck their longest WS drought since the 20s is from 82-2006. Oh and that is just for wins. They made 3 World Series appearances in that span.
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I think saying they are upper quartile is way to conservative. They are likely the 2nd most successful franchise ever (Yankees, obviously). Maybe you could make arguments for teams like the Dodgers or Giants being there with them. But I don't think there are any other teams that can stack up to what the Cardinals have accomplished in the history of their franchise. They have had consistent success since the 20's. Heck their longest WS drought since the 20s is from 82-2006. Oh and that is just for wins. They made 3 World Series appearances in that span.
I wasn't trying to do the math buck. I think 2nd is a huge stretch. No way in heck they are more significant than the Dodgers because I'm talking about more than on field success. But there's no reason to argue. They're way up there; top 10%. There, better? :)
My point was more about why that is. It's great for St. Louis. Because before last year's Blues run, there really wasn't much else. It's the same logic my BIL always used about SEC football living in Nashville. Then they got the Titans. Again, Wisconsin is truly blessed.
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I've been a Cardinal fan since the 1960s and I think there are a couple of reasons why the Cardinals are so good for so long.
1) As other posters illustrated, the Cardinals have a very loyal fan base. Before 1957, they were it west of the Mississippi. That's a long time ago but baseball traditions are generational. Father to son. Mother to daughter. Heck, Kansas City should own a good part of Missouri and everything in the Great Plains. They don't. The Cardinals do.
2) For years, the Cardinals had Anheuser-Busch as an owner. Sometimes the Brewery invested more, sometimes less. But the Cardinals for a generation were directly associated with Budweiser and Busch Beers. The corporate strength of AB helped make the team a national team.
3) Sorry, but Cardinal fans are demanding fans. I've been critical of Cub fans before as putting up with crap. Cardinal fans will tolerate a bad team for a short time it if the team is trying to win. But if the team is a bunch of losers, as it was in the late 1970s, the fans will find something else to do. Boating in the Ozarks, gambling on the Mississippi or growing grass in Chesterfield. Cardinal fans are hard-working fans and they're not going to spend their money wastefully. Plus, the team's success has spoiled them. Ownership knows this.
4) Cub fans will put up with crap because Wrigley Field is the eighth wonder of the world. Brewer fans will tolerate it because they're ever hopeful goodness is just around the corner and if, we get lucky, they'll be there when it started!
Literally, three of your points are that you have the best fans in baseball.
This is why the joke exists.
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Literally, three of your points are that you have the best fans in baseball.
This is why the joke exists.
But Titan, they actually do. I think I pointed out why. Are they the Yankees, Dodgers, Giants? Perhaps not. But great fans and a great historic franchise? Absolutely.
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But Titan, they actually do. I think I pointed out why. Are they the Yankees, Dodgers, Giants? Perhaps not. But great fans and a great historic franchise? Absolutely.
The Cardinals should try to trademark "great" and "greatest"
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I've been a Cardinal fan since the 1960s and I think there are a couple of reasons why the Cardinals are so good for so long.
1) As other posters illustrated, the Cardinals have a very loyal fan base. Before 1957, they were it west of the Mississippi. That's a long time ago but baseball traditions are generational. Father to son. Mother to daughter. Heck, Kansas City should own a good part of Missouri and everything in the Great Plains. They don't. The Cardinals do.
2) For years, the Cardinals had Anheuser-Busch as an owner. Sometimes the Brewery invested more, sometimes less. But the Cardinals for a generation were directly associated with Budweiser and Busch Beers. The corporate strength of AB helped make the team a national team.
3) Sorry, but Cardinal fans are demanding fans. I've been critical of Cub fans before as putting up with crap. Cardinal fans will tolerate a bad team for a short time it if the team is trying to win. But if the team is a bunch of losers, as it was in the late 1970s, the fans will find something else to do. Boating in the Ozarks, gambling on the Mississippi or growing grass in Chesterfield. Cardinal fans are hard-working fans and they're not going to spend their money wastefully. Plus, the team's success has spoiled them. Ownership knows this.
4) Cub fans will put up with crap because Wrigley Field is the eighth wonder of the world. Brewer fans will tolerate it because they're ever hopeful goodness is just around the corner and if, we get lucky, they'll be there when it started!
?-(
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dgies,
I think a lot of what you write about the Cards is correct. There's one other important factor in play and that's the simple reality that they are really the only game in town. Sure St. Louis has had its occasional 'rental' football team but they have a weak history in that regard. Sure they have hockey but little success until just now and zero national relevance. And their last foray into basketball was an unknown ABA team if I'm recalling correctly. On top of that, St. Louis (and Missouri for that matter) have no presence in any major college sport with the pinnacle probably being Mizzou football, now a complete after though misplaced in the SEC. That means that essentially ALL the sports dollars flow into the Cards. St. Louis is a baseball town because it very much has to be a baseball town.
I'm not being critical. It's one of the great franchises. Upper quartile in MLB, for sure. Probably the only non-coastal team in that regard save the Cubs and perhaps the Braves.
I guess the one thing that I also reflect on is how wonderful we really have it in Wisconsin. The Big 3 sports played at a good to great level with outstanding history plus championships (mostly in football) and MVPs galore. GREAT college sports including football, basketball and hockey. World class venues. It's all good. We're truly blessed.
Respectfully, this is highly inaccurate. I can reply to dgies directly where I disagree with his assessments.
I don’t think either of you understand the St. Louis market.
As Nick Bakay used to say, “The numbers never lie.”
You seem to try to equate success with following, fandom, etc...
You are aware the Rams sold out 95% of their games while in St. Louis? You are aware their television ratings are still higher in St. Louis than Los Angeles four years after relocating? The Rams and professional football have been extremely popular in St. Louis. It isn’t their fans fault that Bill Bidwell and Stan Kroenke were the owners. It’s actually pretty remarkable the local support there despite inept ownership, multiple teams, periodic elite Super Bowl success combined with some of the worst losing stretches in the league.
The Blues have been wildly popular for several decades. Annual attendance and television ratings show that. The Blues are in the top handful of local tv ratings in years they are not strong or elite, to of course go along with record breaking local tv ratings during the Championship run. Getting almost a million people at a parade doesn’t happen for bandwagons. They had a stretch of 25 straight playoff seasons.
“All of the sports dollars flow into the Cards” “Only game in town” are factually incorrect statements by a wide margin.
They just announced an MLS expansion Franchise. That sport obviously has a big following and long history there. From U.S. men’s and women’s teams filling up big stadiums, to SLU’s 10 National Titles and their 6k in their first few games to start their season. College sports there are roughly similar there as Marquette fans would know. Larger state school has more alums, fans, media coverage than the local Jesuit private school.
As for pro sports both Kansas City and St. Louis have had teams in NFL, MLB, soon MLS, etc at the same time, in the same state. Wisconsin doesn’t have that with two cities in the state being home to various same major pro sports teams at the same time.
College sports have a big following as well. Mizzou has played in the SEC title football game twice in the past 5 seasons.m by the way, not exactly an after thought. They were competitive in the Big 12 and Big 8 prior. But more importantly, they get attendance and ratings. The same can be said for basketball. The Mizzou v Illinois basketball and football games do well when played in St. Louis, with the hoops having decades of sell outs annually. SLU had 6,000 for both of its first two soccer games with a rebuilding team. When SLU played in a league with Marquette, it would get 17k a game. And when they are competitive even in less desirable leagues during Majerus era, it was event viewing.
It goes on and on, whether its local professional, college teams, whether its the very frequent National College and Olympic Sports events hosted their and their attendance and ratings, .....or United States National team frequent stops in various sports. it’s not the most informed take to say the Cardinals are the only game in town
It’s an all sports town with regard to support, ratings, $$. Again, respectfully, you just notice the baseball team more because they play in a division with Milwaukee as opposed to other sports, and, they have been successful often. That doesn’t mean the other things don’t exist. People who may not follow hockey, wouldn’t necessarily know the long history of attendance, ratings, $, and fandom there. The Blues were not a Stanley Cup contender last season. They had a long history of making the playoffs and early or mid tier exits with exceptions. How does that explain having the top couple of tv ratings in the league?...as has been the case often in their history. How do you explain the Rams attendance in St. Louis and television ratings? It’s a big sports market. Lots of games in town.
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Sorry shoothoops, you're trying to hard.
Not in any way trying to insult what is presumably your hometown. The reality is that it is now a city with 300,000 folks, roughly 1/3 of its heyday in the 1950s and soon to be surpassed by KC as the dominant metro area in the state. It's got a great historic baseball team. It had a very nice run capturing the Stanley Cup where I think we all cheered for them to get their first ever. But let's not pretend that it's the center of the athletic universe or that anybody in the SEC has ever even heard of their college football team. It's Memphis; just a bit nicer.
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?-(
Don't waste your time or mental energy. Dgies is a good dude, but he's the complete embodiment of all the absurd Cardinal fan stereotypes, minus the nasty bits of racism. They are the best, most loyal, most knowledgeable fans...until they aren't. And when they aren't? Well, they have a reason for it and that reason makes them superior to other fans as well. Its precious :o
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Sorry shoothoops, you're trying to hard.
Not in any way trying to insult what is presumably your hometown. The reality is that it is now a city with 300,000 folks, roughly 1/3 of its heyday in the 1950s and soon to be surpassed by KC as the dominant metro area in the state. It's got a great historic baseball team. It had a very nice run capturing the Stanley Cup where I think we all cheered for them to get their first ever. But let's not pretend that it's the center of the athletic universe or that anybody in the SEC has ever even heard of their college football team. It's Memphis; just a bit nicer.
So is this what people do when they don’t want to discuss the numbers and facts? The topic was and is sports $, popularity, fandom, attendance, ratings other than baseball in that market. Clearly something about that market has gotten under your skin. Your previous post said you were not trying to be critical, but...proceeded to be just that. ...then again in this one you strangely did the same thing about its population, or saying another city has surpassed it in the state or comparing it to yet another smaller metro. I don’t know who hurt you in your past in St. Louis or from St. Louis, and that really doesn’t matter. I can always discuss misinformed metro areas in other pm’s aside from the baseball topic.
If anything you don’t realize you keep accidentally making the case for it as an all sports market. Multiple Universities spread out their followings. Multiple professional teams spread put their followings. Yet there they are, the numbers in various sports despite all of those factors.
One thing you seem to have a little bit in common with Cardinal fan poster is that you seem to think what you know, like, follow, is descriptive of an entire market. If it isn’t something you know, heard of like or follow, it somehow to you is not popular in that other market. Just because you may not follow insert sports team here, doesn’t mean that team doesn’t have a big following elsewhere. And that’s the topic. If you don’t to believe me, look at the numbers, speak to the people who cover these things.
Take football as a random example:
The Rams arrived in St. Louis. At the time there were many other teams with large followings within the region and nationally. Kansas City, Chicago, Green Bay, etc..and of course the National followings of teams such as Pittsburgh, Dallas, etc..not within the region. That’s what makes their economic, ticket, television ratings etc support all the more impressive. The Cardinals would of course be different from that as they have been there since the 1800’s. It doesn’t mean other things don’t have high popularity relative to other places. It isn’t that difficult to understand.
It is what it is, a top 20 tv market, 3 million metro area. (unlike many other metros, the city and county are considered separate entities, and the city is only defined as less than 60 square miles) It’s a strong baseball market. But it’s also a strong sports market in variety of other sports. You don’t seem to want to discuss attendance, television ratings, money specifically. So I can move on from the topic.
I never said it was the center of the athletic universe. You said the baseball team was the only game in town which isn’t true. The numbers show otherwise. You somehow seemed to use that to explain their success. And you seemed to equate on field success with local following, popularity, and support. If anything it is often more telling when support is shown when teams are not as successful. And of course follow the numbers when they are as well.
Notice how I didn’t and don’t have to change the subject to take shots at Milwaukee, the state of Wisconsin or any of its Universities there. I understand the Wisconsin market quite well past and present, both its changes and constants.
Pick a different place for example. Nashville Tennessee, as I do Milwaukee, Chicago, St. Louis, many other places. But I don’t personally care to spend too much time near Broadway downtown scene. I’d rather spend time in the West End, Hillsboro Village, Germantown, Midtown, maybe The Gulch, 12 South, East Nashville, etc...wherever. But I can recognize it's a nice place, the huge popularity of the Broadway scene, and its $.
I'm a Marquette grad/fan that doesn't have to hate Notre Dame (this group is getting smaller since the late 80's early 90's) or Wisconsin sports to be a Marquette fan. There are a lot of us.
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I wish we all could be like St. Louis
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Don't waste your time or mental energy. Dgies is a good dude, but he's the complete embodiment of all the absurd Cardinal fan stereotypes, minus the nasty bits of racism. They are the best, most loyal, most knowledgeable fans...until they aren't. And when they aren't? Well, they have a reason for it and that reason makes them superior to other fans as well. Its precious :o
Here’s the thing though. There are good, bad, indifferent fans in all markets, all sports. All cities/metros have good, bad, indifferent things about them.
The best fans in baseball thing was never a self proclaimed thing for them. That was from people outside that area.
This myth gets repeated over and over and must be true. But it isn’t.
dgies is obviously a big Cardinal fan and but he doesn’t represent an entire fan base or more than one person of it, good, bad, or indifferent. I’ve respectfully disagreed with some of his opinions because I believe at times he equates his limited personal experience to an entire place or team or etc..without being able to separate that from other things. Glow in my opinion is similar in some ways with these recent posts.
It would be inaccurate if I said all Cubs fans are this or all Brewers fans were that, etc..or all of Milwaukee was this or all of Chicago was that.....
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Reading between the lines, it sounds like Joe and Jed will be gone.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/theo-epstein-speaks-cubs-fans-184503111.html
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I wish we all could be like St. Louis
I sure wish the Sox could be more like the Cardinals.
I also wish the Sox absurdly got a competitive balance pick like the Cards.
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Reading between the lines, it sounds like Joe and Jed will be gone.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/theo-epstein-speaks-cubs-fans-184503111.html
Yep ... as soon as the guy who runs a team starts his assessment with, "I just think our failure to play up to our ability, play up to our potential," he's saying, "Hey man, I did my job. Now if only everybody else did theirs. I need to find somebody who will."
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So is this what people do when they don’t want to discuss the numbers and facts? The topic was and is sports $, popularity, fandom, attendance, ratings other than baseball in that market. Clearly something about that market has gotten under your skin. Your previous post said you were not trying to be critical, but...proceeded to be just that. ...then again in this one you strangely did the same thing about its population, or saying another city has surpassed it in the state or comparing it to yet another smaller metro. I don’t know who hurt you in your past in St. Louis or from St. Louis, and that really doesn’t matter. I can always discuss misinformed metro areas in other pm’s aside from the baseball topic.
If anything you don’t realize you keep accidentally making the case for it as an all sports market. Multiple Universities spread out their followings. Multiple professional teams spread put their followings. Yet there they are, the numbers in various sports despite all of those factors.
One thing you seem to have a little bit in common with Cardinal fan poster is that you seem to think what you know, like, follow, is descriptive of an entire market. If it isn’t something you know, heard of like or follow, it somehow to you is not popular in that other market. Just because you may not follow insert sports team here, doesn’t mean that team doesn’t have a big following elsewhere. And that’s the topic. If you don’t to believe me, look at the numbers, speak to the people who cover these things.
Take football as a random example:
The Rams arrived in St. Louis. At the time there were many other teams with large followings within the region and nationally. Kansas City, Chicago, Green Bay, etc..and of course the National followings of teams such as Pittsburgh, Dallas, etc..not within the region. That’s what makes their economic, ticket, television ratings etc support all the more impressive. The Cardinals would of course be different from that as they have been there since the 1800’s. It doesn’t mean other things don’t have high popularity relative to other places. It isn’t that difficult to understand.
It is what it is, a top 20 tv market, 3 million metro area. (unlike many other metros, the city and county are considered separate entities, and the city is only defined as less than 60 square miles) It’s a strong baseball market. But it’s also a strong sports market in variety of other sports. You don’t seem to want to discuss attendance, television ratings, money specifically. So I can move on from the topic.
I never said it was the center of the athletic universe. You said the baseball team was the only game in town which isn’t true. The numbers show otherwise. You somehow seemed to use that to explain their success. And you seemed to equate on field success with local following, popularity, and support. If anything it is often more telling when support is shown when teams are not as successful. And of course follow the numbers when they are as well.
Notice how I didn’t and don’t have to change the subject to take shots at Milwaukee, the state of Wisconsin or any of its Universities there. I understand the Wisconsin market quite well past and present, both its changes and constants.
Pick a different place for example. Nashville Tennessee, as I do Milwaukee, Chicago, St. Louis, many other places. But I don’t personally care to spend too much time near Broadway downtown scene. I’d rather spend time in the West End, Hillsboro Village, Germantown, Midtown, maybe The Gulch, 12 South, East Nashville, etc...wherever. But I can recognize it's a nice place, the huge popularity of the Broadway scene, and its $.
I'm a Marquette grad/fan that doesn't have to hate Notre Dame (this group is getting smaller since the late 80's early 90's) or Wisconsin sports to be a Marquette fan. There are a lot of us.
I'm not here to fight with you shoot. I think STL is below average. You think STL is great. I think the Cardinals are a signature franchise and everything else is an afterthought. You don't. I'm not really interested in comparing stats. Have a great weekend.
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Anyone see the Orioles give up 2 runs on a 2 out strikeout yesterday? They are something else.
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Anyone see the Orioles give up 2 runs on a 2 out strikeout yesterday? They are something else.
I don't follow the AL much these days but I did notice that it is a league of extreme haves and have nots. Wow.
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I know there's some Sox fans that are on this board, and I wanted to post this here in case any Sox fans were interested. Full transparency, my friends in the Sox front office approached me about having my son Bradley be a part of this campaign with Michael Kopech. If you want to see my fat face and hear my deep voice on tv, I'll be on with Chuck Garfien during the September 25th broadcast of Indians/Sox.
Kopech is growing out his hair and won't cut it until SoxFest next year in support of Ronald McDonald House. For a small donation, one gets a chance to have lunch with Kopech, get Sox scout seats for a game next year. I don't know how well this has been marketed so far, so my hope is someone here wins. Having spent some time with Kopech, he's a great guy, very engaging. It'd be awesome if a MU Sox fan won this.
https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/charities/support/kopechs-big-kut
Thanks for letting me post, back to your regularly scheduled pissing match.
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I'm not here to fight with you shoot. I think STL is below average. You think STL is great. I think the Cardinals are a signature franchise and everything else is an afterthought. You don't. I'm not really interested in comparing stats. Have a great weekend.
At least you are consistent...say you aren’t going to say something negative and proceed to do just that. Three separate posts in a row. Just can’t help yourself I suppose.
Anyone can have an opinion about anything. And that’s great. Informed or under informed. But facts are facts, numbers are numbers. That’s a little bit different. After confronted with additional facts, you have decided you aren’t interested in discussing them, specifics, or the numbers which may be different from your original theory or thought. The discussion was about support, following, popularity of different sports besides baseball in a particular market.
That has somehow turned into your repeated venting negatively about a particular metro. I don’t allow personal sports fandom to overcome objectivity about a team, place, etc...and I find good things about every place I’ve lived or have visited, so I suppose we’re a bit different that way.
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I've looked at your history shoot. It's a frequent, full throated defense of your city. I'm happy that you like it there. It's why we live in a free country. I sincerely hope you have a fantastic weekend. (Well, except for being disappointed about your baseball team. :))
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The st louis inferiority complex is strong in this thread.
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The st louis inferiority complex is strong in this thread.
Show Me
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I've looked at your history shoot. It's a frequent, full throated defense of your city. I'm happy that you like it there. It's why we live in a free country. I sincerely hope you have a fantastic weekend. (Well, except for being disappointed about your baseball team. :))
Four straight posts. Still can’t help yourself.
Perhaps Marquette’s psychology department could hire you to teach a gaslighting course? The deflections, distractions, anything but the topic hand.
The topic of course was sports popularity in a particular market other than baseball, as evidenced by money, ticket sales, television ratings, etc...This isn’t a topic you seem interested in discussing in any specifics despite you being the one to bring it up. I merely responded to your post. Each time instead of discussing the topic, you instead chose to switch the topic to cities, metros, and speak negatively about the same metro in the form of gaslighting hoping for the distraction, hoping incorrectly that it would somehow bother me. None of which has anything to do with what you said in the first place, which is why I replied.
It could have been simple enough to say that perhaps the Cardinals have a larger National and International following, for reasons previously mentioned in the thread. But locally, in that market, there are other sports that also have high popularity as well. The numbers support the multiple sports popularity.
I get it. I’ve been around a little bit. I’ve lived a lot of places including Milwaukee, Chicago, as well as larger metros on both coasts, NYC, L.A, and other geographies too. There are of course good, bad, indifferent, things about every city, metro, same as they all have good, bad, indifferent sports fans. Your strategy isn’t bad because this is a Marquette board, lots of Milwaukee Chicago sports fans here. And a small percentage of them will support anything negative about a competing team or its location. And a few will jump in and support that. You were aware of that or you wouldn’t have used the strategy. It of course isn’t representative of everyone in those markets, nor even of everyone here. It doesn’t really have anything to do with the topic though.
My previous posts here show what I think about the current actual baseball season. (spoiler alert, any of 3 teams can win the NL Central for a variety of reasons) None would be a big surprise, as they are all decent or good but flawed teams. And even decent but flawed teams can win short playoff series of 5 or 7 games.
I’m happy to move on or take the discussion elsewhere so people can have the baseball thread.
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Show Me
ISWYDT
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The st louis inferiority complex is strong in this thread.
STL just told wades to hold my beer.
Sorry buddy, you get the joke though.
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I didn't think anything could beat Wades on the mlb thread. Scoop continues to prove me wrong.
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Brewers extending the netting. That’s nice to hear. I’d definitely be more likely to buy tickets in that area now.
https://twitter.com/sophiaminnaert/status/1172610605737529346?s=21
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Brewers extending the netting. That’s nice to hear. I’d definitely be more likely to buy tickets in that area now.
https://twitter.com/sophiaminnaert/status/1172610605737529346?s=21
It's the all-time no-brainer for every team. Only a matter of time.
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Brewers extending the netting. That’s nice to hear. I’d definitely be more likely to buy tickets in that area now.
https://twitter.com/sophiaminnaert/status/1172610605737529346?s=21
C’mon, Cheebs. That’s like an open invitation for chicas to carpetbomb this thread. :-[
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Cubbies outscored the effen Panthers. Easily. Damn.
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Reading between the lines, it sounds like Joe and Jed will be gone.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/theo-epstein-speaks-cubs-fans-184503111.html
Maddon likely. Don’t see any way Jed is gone.
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It's the all-time no-brainer for every team. Only a matter of time.
making a boring game (which I love) even more boring. Eliminating great plays in foul territory among other things. Will make games longer....which will lead to more boredom...baseball cannot get out of its own way. They are about to have a major RSN issue over next few years as well.
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Brewers extending the netting. That’s nice to hear. I’d definitely be more likely to buy tickets in that area now.
https://twitter.com/sophiaminnaert/status/1172610605737529346?s=21
Responses on Twitter....many not happy...do not blame them one bit
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Responses on Twitter....many not happy...do not blame them one bit
I sat behind the netting at a Sox game last month. I have to say it had zero impact on the game watching experience. Really no big deal at all.
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I sat behind the netting at a Sox game last month. I have to say it had zero impact on the game watching experience. Really no big deal at all.
I have sat behind the netting many times, I have also sat in the open areas where foul balls come, kids go to get autographs, etc. I don’t mind the nets from a viewing experience, I mind them from the POV of altering the game on the field.
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I can’t remember one single play made in Miller Park this season, by the Brewers or a road team, that the new netting will take away next year. Not one.
Maybe I just have bad timing in the games that I miss watching or the times I leave the room to go to the bathroom or grab food. But genuinely can’t remember a single play a player made in the stands at Miller Park. Can’t even come up with one example in the history of the park.
Also, has Chicos figured out what it means to be a homer yet?
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Maddon likely. Don’t see any way Jed is gone.
Sliding McLeod over is hardly a vote of confidence for Jed.
Jason's a great baseball guy; he's a fresh set of eyes. If he's around the team more, it gives a new perspective that maybe he'll say something that helps a player or helps the front office or helps Joe [Maddon] or a coach just with a new set of eyes.
We're taking a fresh look at every aspect of the organization.
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Sliding McLeod over is hardly a vote of confidence for Jed.
Jed and Theo work as a team for all decisions. Now they’ve added Jason to that team regarding decisions about the big league team.
Ultimately Theo has the final say. He’s not going to drop Jed for the choices he made, especially when there’s a good chance Theo leaves in two years when his contract is up. He has said many times 10 years is about the right amount to time to be in a place before a new voice is needed.
If I had to bet, I’d guess in two years Theo moves on, Jed becomes President, and Jason becomes GM.
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Jed and Theo work as a team for all decisions. Now they’ve added Jason to that team regarding decisions about the big league team.
Ultimately Theo has the final say. He’s not going to drop Jed for the choices he made, especially when there’s a good chance Theo leaves in two years when his contract is up. He has said many times 10 years is about the right amount to time to be in a place before a new voice is needed.
If I had to bet, I’d guess in two years Theo moves on, Jed becomes President, and Jason becomes GM.
Time will tell. Jed has spent a lot of money on bad arms. No way the Ricketts promote him in two years if the next two years trend like the last two.
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Time will tell. Jed has spent a lot of money on bad arms. No way the Ricketts promote him in two years if the next two years trend like the last two.
Jed and Theo spent a lot of money.
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Jed and Theo spent a lot of money.
Jed is redundant then.
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making a boring game (which I love) even more boring. Eliminating great plays in foul territory among other things. Will make games longer....which will lead to more boredom...baseball cannot get out of its own way. They are about to have a major RSN issue over next few years as well.
You cannot possibly think that extending the netting will prolong the game in any meaningful way.
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making a boring game (which I love) even more boring. Eliminating great plays in foul territory among other things. Will make games longer....which will lead to more boredom...baseball cannot get out of its own way. They are about to have a major RSN issue over next few years as well.
Watching baseball for plays in the stands in foul territory is like watching nascar for the crashes.
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Watching baseball for plays in the stands in foul territory is like watching nascar for the crashes.
To be fair, there's a chunk of racing fans that do exactly that
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Last Sunday was sitting a couple rows behind the Brewers dugout.
The netting is fantastic, didn’t have to worry about my 6 and 2 year olds. Nice sense of security.
My mother came with and didn’t even notice the nets compared to her last trip in these seats.
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Last Sunday was sitting a couple rows behind the Brewers dugout.
The netting is fantastic, didn’t have to worry about my 6 and 2 year olds. Nice sense of security.
My mother came with and didn’t even notice the nets compared to her last trip in these seats.
You get those sick tix from the players’ families?
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You get those sick tix from the players’ families?
No, but we did get on the field afterwards, to run the bases.
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Last Sunday was sitting a couple rows behind the Brewers dugout.
The netting is fantastic, didn’t have to worry about my 6 and 2 year olds. Nice sense of security.
My mother came with and didn’t even notice the nets compared to her last trip in these seats.
Sorry, you're not allowed to think that.
You can only think it made the game more boring by eliminating the tens of thousands of plays every year that the netting now has ruined.
Instead of putting up more netting, they should eliminate netting and screens everywhere. That'll keep all those SJW Millennials right behind the plate off their effen phones!
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Trout being shutdown...surgery tomorrow.
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Trout being shutdown...surgery tomorrow.
Hope he can bounce back quickly. Looks like Rizzo just badly sprained his ankle. Bummer seeing all these stars hurt at the end of the year.
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Braun!
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Braun!
just turned the game on, 2 down top of 9th, worked the count to 3/2 and goodnight! 7-4
then hader gives up a 2 run homer to edman 7-6 bottom of 9
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#Crew
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Our post season runs typically have some memorable Braun homers.
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Padres ... Pirates ... Reds ... Rockies ... that's who the Brew Crew get to finish with.
Pirates really put up quite the fight against the Cubbies, who I believe just hit another 3-run HR.
Could be a wild finish. Let's see if Brewers can take advantage of Cubbies and Cards having to beat up on each other.
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An important part of the Crew's winning 2-3 is that the Cards continue to have to play serious ball. No coasting the rest of the way. 7 games with the Cubs is a ton.
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Brewers have to get it done without Yelich against an easier schedule. Cubs have to get it done without Baez and now potentially Rizzo against a tougher (but not insane) schedule. Cards have the toughest schedule remaining. Should be an interesting two weeks.
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Brewers have to get it done without Yelich against an easier schedule. Cubs have to get it done without Baez and now potentially Rizzo against a tougher (but not insane) schedule. Cards have the toughest schedule remaining. Should be an interesting two weeks.
and have had to do it without their best pitcher and second best hitter for a while now.
any word on when or if keston or woodruff return this year?
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and have had to do it without their best pitcher and second best hitter for a while now.
any word on when or if keston or woodruff return this year?
I'd expect both this week. Keston will initially PH. Woody they are deciding how to maximize him down the stretch. Threw 25 simulated day or two ago.
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Keston pinch hit today and singled.
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Hope he can bounce back quickly. Looks like Rizzo just badly sprained his ankle. Bummer seeing all these stars hurt at the end of the year.
Yup, big bummer.
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The best fans in baseball cleared out VERY quickly with 4 outs left in the game today. And they had a chance to tie it up too. Would’ve been a very quiet celebration for a home game in a pennant race had they completed the comeback in the bottom of the ninth.
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The best fans in baseball cleared out VERY quickly with 4 outs left in the game today. And they had a chance to tie it up too. Would’ve been a very quiet celebration for a home game in a pennant race had they completed the comeback in the bottom of the ninth.
It’s the team’s fault for not living up to fan expectations. They really had no choice but to leave.
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These next two weeks are going to be very interesting. Frankly, if the Crew simply does their job they'll be in the post season. The Cubs and the Cards play a combined 26 games. And in those 26 exactly 7 are guaranteed to be a loss. The very best the combined tandem can go is 19-7 and obviously both will lose other games as well. So it's not unrealistic at all that one or the other could play sub .500 ball down the stretch. St Louis has a particularly challenging schedule. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them go from the division lead to out by the time this is over. Yesterday was huge for the Crew. And the Cubs should be thanking their northern neighbors as well.
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These next two weeks are going to be very interesting. Frankly, if the Crew simply does their job they'll be in the post season. The Cubs and the Cards play a combined 26 games. And in those 26 exactly 7 are guaranteed to be a loss. The very best the combined tandem can go is 19-7 and obviously both will lose other games as well. So it's not unrealistic at all that one or the other could play sub .500 ball down the stretch. St Louis has a particularly challenging schedule. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them go from the division lead to out by the time this is over. Yesterday was huge for the Crew. And the Cubs should be thanking their northern neighbors as well.
Let's not forget the Nats in this. Only a 1.5 game wildcard lead over the Cubs, 2.5 over the Brewers. Three games upcoming versus the Cards.
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So I am playing around on Fan Graphs this morning, and was surprised to see that they have the playoff odds like this:
Cardinals: 86.3%
Cubs: 72.7%
Brewers: 36.1%
They have the Brewers and Cubs going 7-6 the rest of the way, and the Cardinals 6-7. This is despite the Brewers having the easiest of the three schedules. Are they evaluating the Brewers without Yelich? Is it because of their negative run differential, saying that they have been playing inordinately "lucky" lately?
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And the Cubs should be thanking their northern neighbors as well.
If the cubs had a choice between the brewers missing the playoffs or the cards losing their 100 game. We'd choose the cards losing 100
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The Brewers had a very difficult first month and a half of the season and then the schedule lightened up quite a bit. I think they had a stretch of something like 26 straight games or maybe 26 of 29 games against sub .500 teams. The thinking was if they're .500 after the first month and a half they'll be in great position. They were 10 games over .500 at that point and then went something like 9-17 against the sub .500 teams.
This still isn't last year's team, especially without Yelich. When the Brewers won a couple series against the Cubs and then the schedule really opened up to end the season last year you knew they were going to make their run. This year? I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Brewers went 6-7 down the stretch despite the weak schedule.
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The Brewers had a very difficult first month and a half of the season and then the schedule lightened up quite a bit. I think they had a stretch of something like 26 straight games or maybe 26 of 29 games against sub .500 teams. The thinking was if they're .500 after the first month and a half they'll be in great position. They were 10 games over .500 at that point and then went something like 9-17 against the sub .500 teams.
This still isn't last year's team, especially without Yelich. When the Brewers won a couple series against the Cubs and then the schedule really opened up to end the season last year you knew they were going to make their run. This year? I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Brewers went 6-7 down the stretch despite the weak schedule.
The good news is they’ve already started taking care of business against Miami. True, they could still lay an egg the rest of the month.
I think this will be different than earlier in the year since Counsell is so good at using a September roster. He has more flexibility in the bullpen and can pull the starter or reliever a lot quicker.
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For some reason I keep forgetting they still expanded rosters this year. It's next year they go down to 26.
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So I am playing around on Fan Graphs this morning, and was surprised to see that they have the playoff odds like this:
Cardinals: 86.3%
Cubs: 72.7%
Brewers: 36.1%
They have the Brewers and Cubs going 7-6 the rest of the way, and the Cardinals 6-7. This is despite the Brewers having the easiest of the three schedules. Are they evaluating the Brewers without Yelich? Is it because of their negative run differential, saying that they have been playing inordinately "lucky" lately?
I wonder if the Fangraphs system is still overvaluing run differential. As far as I know, (which is little, admittedly), those calculations don't factor in the loss of any individual player.
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The Crew absolutely had a bad run in June when they shoulda made some hay. But the reality is they are 11-3 here in September with fully 10 of those games against playoff teams and are playing inspired ball. Moreover, every man on the roster knows that they are absolutely capable because, well, they did the exact same thing last year. They MUST avoid any letdowns but a prediction of .500 ball the rest of the way out is a bet anyone would take today. The run differential stinks, no doubt.
Fivethirtyeight has them at 48%. That feels about right.
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This race should be a close one. Nico may be a Savior for the Cubs.
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Let's not forget the Nats in this. Only a 1.5 game wildcard lead over the Cubs, 2.5 over the Brewers. Three games upcoming versus the Cards.
Yep. Especially with the inanity of Dave Martinez' decision making. Was watching some of their game on Saturday due to the WC implications. Brings Suero in during the 6th for relief, holding a 1-0 lead. He promptly gives up 2 hits and the tying run. Leaves him in to start the 7th where he walks the next 2 guys on I think 9 pitches total. Then brings in Rodney with 2 on. Now you have base runners for Acuna and Albies with only 1 out and naturally they feast and the Nats get blown out.
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The best fans in baseball cleared out VERY quickly with 4 outs left in the game today. And they had a chance to tie it up too. Would’ve been a very quiet celebration for a home game in a pennant race had they completed the comeback in the bottom of the ninth.
Lots of red seats at the end of Saturday's game too.
Must have to beat the world's best traffic.
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See attached.
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Yep. Especially with the inanity of Dave Martinez' decision making. Was watching some of their game on Saturday due to the WC implications. Brings Suero in during the 6th for relief, holding a 1-0 lead. He promptly gives up 2 hits and the tying run. Leaves him in to start the 7th where he walks the next 2 guys on I think 9 pitches total. Then brings in Rodney with 2 on. Now you have base runners for Acuna and Albies with only 1 out and naturally they feast and the Nats get blown out.
He learned all that with his years as Joe's right hand man.
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I wonder if the Fangraphs system is still overvaluing run differential. As far as I know, (which is little, admittedly), those calculations don't factor in the loss of any individual player.
That's the only explanation I can think of. To have the Cubs' odds >2x the Brewers' odds is ridiculous when you consider the remaining schedules (as Glow and Dr. B have outlined)... by the numbers, the Brewers actually control their own destiny to a postseason spot, and what's more, they get to do so against 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the NL.
Not a postseason odds matter, but Brewers also have tie-breakers over Cubs, Mets, Phillies, and Snakes, i.e. game 163 (for WC or division) will be at Miller Park unless it's against the Redbirds.
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the Brewers actually control their own destiny to a postseason spot, and what's more, they get to do so against 4 of the bottom 5 teams in the NL.
How do they control their destiny?
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How do they control their destiny?
Because with the Cubs and Cardinals playing one another 7 times, if the Brewers go 13-0, they will pass at least one of the Cubs and Cardinals. Assuming both the Cubs and Cardinals win the rest of their other games.
Cardinals go 7-0, they pass the Cubs
Cardinals go 6-1, they pass the Cubs
Cardinals go 5-2, they pass the Cubs
Cardinals go 4-3, they pass the Cubs and tie the Cardinals
Cubs go 4-3, they pass the Cubs and the Cardinals
Cubs go 5-2, they pass the Cubs and the Cardinals
Cubs go 6-1, they pass the Cardinals and tie the Cubs
Cubs go 7-0, they pass the Cardinals
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Additionally, in any scenario where the Cardinals win the rest of their games, the Brewers would, at worst, tie the Nationals.
Because with the Cubs and Cardinals playing one another 7 times, if the Brewers go 13-0, they will pass at least one of the Cubs and Cardinals. Assuming both the Cubs and Cardinals win the rest of their other games.
Cardinals go 7-0, they pass the Cubs
Cardinals go 6-1, they pass the Cubs
Cardinals go 5-2, they pass the Cubs
Cardinals go 4-3, they pass the Cubs and tie the Cardinals
Cubs go 4-3, they pass the Cubs and the Cardinals
Cubs go 5-2, they pass the Cubs and the Cardinals
Cubs go 6-1, they pass the Cardinals and tie the Cubs
Cubs go 7-0, they pass the Cardinals
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Because with the Cubs and Cardinals playing one another 7 times, if the Brewers go 13-0, they will pass at least one of the Cubs and Cardinals. Assuming both the Cubs and Cardinals win the rest of their other games.
Cardinals go 7-0, they pass the Cubs
Cardinals go 6-1, they pass the Cubs
Cardinals go 5-2, they pass the Cubs
Cardinals go 4-3, they pass the Cubs and tie the Cardinals
Cubs go 4-3, they pass the Cubs and the Cardinals
Cubs go 5-2, they pass the Cubs and the Cardinals
Cubs go 6-1, they pass the Cardinals and tie the Cubs
Cubs go 7-0, they pass the Cardinals
Except the Cubs or Cardinals could win out and no matter what the Brewers do it won’t matter.
I know it’s unlikely but that’s what controlling your destiny means. The Cubs and Cardinals actually control their destiny.
You could have said the Cubs controlled their own destiny last season with the Brewers and Cardinals playing each other at the end of the season but how did that work out? The Brewers won all of their games.
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Except the Cubs or Cardinals could win out and no matter what the Brewers do it won’t matter.
I know it’s unlikely but that’s what controlling your destiny means. The Cubs and Cardinals actually control their destiny.
You could have said the Cubs controlled their own destiny last season with the Brewers and Cardinals playing each other at the end of the season but how did that work out? The Brewers won all of their games.
The Brewers control their own destiny for a playoff spot. No matter what the Cubs and Cardinals do, if the Brewers finish the season 13-0, they are guaranteed to pass either the Cubs or Cardinals, and at least be the second wild card team.
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Except the Cubs or Cardinals could win out and no matter what the Brewers do it won’t matter.
They can't actually. As it has been pointed out they play each other 7 times. Any possible outcomes in those games give the Brewers a chance if they win out.
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Except the Cubs or Cardinals could win out and no matter what the Brewers do it won’t matter.
I know it’s unlikely but that’s what controlling your destiny means. The Cubs and Cardinals actually control their destiny.
You could have said the Cubs controlled their own destiny last season with the Brewers and Cardinals playing each other at the end of the season but how did that work out? The Brewers won all of their games.
Saddling the other with 7 losses. ::)
The Crew only has to pass one, not both.
Update: Woody gets the start tomorrow.
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Ah good call.
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Now the Crew gets to face the Pirates without Felipe Vazquez, as he was arrested on child solicitation and pornography charges. Absolutely disgusting. The Pirates could have traded him at the deadline and avoided this mess, but they must have been completely unaware.
Knowing professional sports though, the Pirates will cut him, he'll get cleared, and then he'll be pitching for the Yankees next year on the cheap.
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Now the Crew gets to face the Pirates without Felipe Vazquez, as he was arrested on child solicitation and pornography charges. Absolutely disgusting. The Pirates could have traded him at the deadline and avoided this mess, but they must have been completely unaware.
Knowing professional sports though, the Pirates will cut him, he'll get cleared, and then he'll be pitching for the Yankees next year on the cheap.
They should cut him now so the Cubs can say some strong words and plug him into their bullpen
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They should cut him now so the Cubs can say some strong words and plug him into their bullpen
Or the Patriots will pick him up.
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Why is Matt Albers pitching in a pennant race?
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Why is Matt Albers pitching in a pennant race?
He's actually had a pretty solid year. Unlike last year in the second half.
Crew wins again putting the pressure on. Couns has to be thrilled with what Woody gave him for 37 pitches.
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Keep climbing the ladder, Crew.
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He's actually had a pretty solid year. Unlike last year in the second half.
Crew wins again putting the pressure on. Couns has to be thrilled with what Woody gave him for 37 pitches.
An ERA around 5 is terrible for a 7th - 8th inning guy.
Love what Woody did tonight. Stretch him out to 4-5 innings next time.
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Cubs, at home, can't beat a bad Reds team in a critical game.
That's why I say "Kudos to the teams who win the games they're supposed to win." It's not as easy as it sounds.
So right now, the Cubs and Brewers are tied for 2nd, 2 games behind the Cards. They also are tied for the 2nd wild-card spot, 1.5 games behind the Nats.
Fun stuff!
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You get those sick tix from the players’ families?
Players families? Who said I’m not family, big Chief?
For being a big brewers fan, I don’t see why you don’t accept my offer. I think I can figure out the real reason though. Keep it real behind the keyboard, warrior.
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An ERA around 5 is terrible for a 7th - 8th inning guy.
Love what Woody did tonight. Stretch him out to 4-5 innings next time.
The Albers hate in Brewer fandom is insane. The guy has the occasional blowup game, usually in games we were already losing (like the first Cubs game two weeks ago), but between those he goes 5, 6, 7 games in a row without allowing any runs.
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Players families? Who said I’m not family, big Chief?
For being a big brewers fan, I don’t see why you don’t accept my offer. I think I can figure out the real reason though. Keep it real behind the keyboard, warrior.
I have posted who I am many times here. There’s never been any hiding. I don’t need to disable social media accounts because I got called out on MUScoop. I’ll leave you to that.
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The Albers hate in Brewer fandom is insane. The guy has the occasional blowup game, usually in games we were already losing (like the first Cubs game two weeks ago), but between those he goes 5, 6, 7 games in a row without allowing any runs.
Right. He's been fine this year. All star, of course not.
Changing the subject. Remember all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Stearns' trade deadline acquisitions? Yeah, he's damn good.
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Right. He's been fine this year. All star, of course not.
Changing the subject. Remember all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Stearns' trade deadline acquisitions? Yeah, he's damn good.
Yeah, Pomeranz was filthy last night. Quietly an extraordinary pick up.
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The Albers hate in Brewer fandom is insane. The guy has the occasional blowup game, usually in games we were already losing (like the first Cubs game two weeks ago), but between those he goes 5, 6, 7 games in a row without allowing any runs.
I don’t hate the guy. I just don’t want him in a close game. Since the all-star break his ERA is awful. Also walking almost a batter per inning.
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Cubs, at home, can't beat a bad Reds team in a critical game.
That's why I say "Kudos to the teams who win the games they're supposed to win." It's not as easy as it sounds.
So right now, the Cubs and Brewers are tied for 2nd, 2 games behind the Cards. They also are tied for the 2nd wild-card spot, 1.5 games behind the Nats.
Fun stuff!
To be fair, they'd just won 5 straight against bad teams. Sucks in the moment, but I'll take 5 out of 6. No Rizzo, no Javy, and KB has never been able to figure out Sonny Gray.
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To be fair, they'd just won 5 straight against bad teams. Sucks in the moment, but I'll take 5 out of 6. No Rizzo, no Javy, and KB has never been able to figure out Sonny Gray.
Gray has had a very good season. A great bounce back. The Reds look good in that trade/ extension.
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To be fair, they'd just won 5 straight against bad teams. Sucks in the moment, but I'll take 5 out of 6. No Rizzo, no Javy, and KB has never been able to figure out Sonny Gray.
Reasonable take, drew. Even good teams can't win every game.
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I can't help but think about how the Brewers play and roster construction will change next year when the rosters don't expand to 40 in September. Counsell is one of the most creative managers and best at using all of his depth. I get why they're doing it, but it's a hit to how the Brewers were successful these past two years
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I can't help but think about how the Brewers play and roster construction will change next year when the rosters don't expand to 40 in September. Counsell is one of the most creative managers and best at using all of his depth. I get why they're doing it, but it's a hit to how the Brewers were successful these past two years
If Couns can pull off the September charge again next season WITHOUT the 40-man roster, then I'll be really impressed. Right now, he is just taking advantage of the system.
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Everybody is using the same system though. Counsell is a smart, adaptable guy. Stearns seems like he knows what he's doing. They'll have a plan.
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Right. He's been fine this year. All star, of course not.
Changing the subject. Remember all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over Stearns' trade deadline acquisitions? Yeah, he's damn good.
Meh - for me, Pomeranz being very good for 20 innings doesn't automatically make that a great trade. IMO Ray Black vs Dubon is the real metric of how that trade should be graded, with Pomeranz's performance these last two months as a sort of tiebreaker on steroids. And the Black/Dubon judgment gets an incomplete right now.
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Gray has had a very good season. A great bounce back. The Reds look good in that trade/ extension.
Sonny Gray is good. The Vandy grad made his 32nd consecutive major league start last night giving up 6 runs or less. It is a new MLB record surpassing Nolan Ryan.
Also the list of pitchers with most consecutive starts with 4 runs or less:
Cincinnati Reds pitchers all time with:
Most Consecutive starts Allowing 4 or fewer Runs for Reds (since at least 1908)
1972-75 Gary Nolan 37
1992-93 Jose Rijo 33
1990-91 Jose Rijo 32
2019 Sonny Gray 30
1967-68 Gary Nolan 30
Gray wasn’t a great fit in New York. But he’s been good in Oakland and Cincinnati.
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Sonny Gray is good. The Vandy grad made his 32nd consecutive major league start last night giving up 6 runs or less. It is a new MLB record surpassing Nolan Ryan.
Also the list of pitchers with most consecutive starts with 4 runs or less:
Cincinnati Reds pitchers all time with:
Most Consecutive starts Allowing 4 or fewer Runs for Reds (since at least 1908)
1972-75 Gary Nolan 37
1992-93 Jose Rijo 33
1990-91 Jose Rijo 32
2019 Sonny Gray 30
1967-68 Gary Nolan 30
Gray wasn’t a great fit in New York. But he’s been good in Oakland and Cincinnati.
Gray has been very good in Oakland and Cincy. I don't think stats like you gave really mean much though since usage of pitchers is so much different that it was years ago. Just a guess, but I would bet Rijo and Nolan pitched a lot more innings when they had their streaks.
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Sonny Gray is good. The Vandy grad made his 32nd consecutive major league start last night giving up 6 runs or less. It is a new MLB record surpassing Nolan Ryan.
Also the list of pitchers with most consecutive starts with 4 runs or less:
Cincinnati Reds pitchers all time with:
Most Consecutive starts Allowing 4 or fewer Runs for Reds (since at least 1908)
1972-75 Gary Nolan 37
1992-93 Jose Rijo 33
1990-91 Jose Rijo 32
2019 Sonny Gray 30
1967-68 Gary Nolan 30
Gray wasn’t a great fit in New York. But he’s been good in Oakland and Cincinnati.
Help me: you said .... his 32nd consecutive major league start last night giving up 6 runs or less. It is a new MLB record surpassing Nolan Ryan.
It would seem that is not an MLB record ...its not even a Reds club record, right?
...Most Consecutive starts Allowing 4 or fewer Runs for Reds (since at least 1908)
1972-75 Gary Nolan 37...
Please explain
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Meh - for me, Pomeranz being very good for 20 innings doesn't automatically make that a great trade. IMO Ray Black vs Dubon is the real metric of how that trade should be graded, with Pomeranz's performance these last two months as a sort of tiebreaker on steroids. And the Black/Dubon judgment gets an incomplete right now.
Lyles for a bag o balls, Faria for Aggie who was on the cusp of a DFA if his salary wasn't so low, Pomeranz and Black for Dubon, a blocked middle infielder. That's pretty damn good in my mind. Without at least 2 of those guys the Crew wouldn't be on the brink. Plus I love the potential. Pitching isn't the horrible weakness is was only 60 days ago, even if only for the moment. That works for me.
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Help me: you said .... his 32nd consecutive major league start last night giving up 6 runs or less. It is a new MLB record surpassing Nolan Ryan.
It would seem that is not an MLB record ...its not even a Reds club record, right?
...Most Consecutive starts Allowing 4 or fewer Runs for Reds (since at least 1908)
1972-75 Gary Nolan 37...
Please explain
Whoops typo my bad. I meant HITS .....6 HITS not runs...and that is the reason for the confusion with the other run stat on my mind as well.
The MLB record Gray broke was 32 straight starts 6 hits or less. He was previously tied with Nolan Ryan.
The other Reds 4 runs or less stat/list is correct.
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To be fair, they'd just won 5 straight against bad teams. Sucks in the moment, but I'll take 5 out of 6. No Rizzo, no Javy, and KB has never been able to figure out Sonny Gray.
Well, now it's 2 home losses in a row to the Reds.
I was thinking about 2 weeks ago that if the Cardinals can take a 3-game lead into these last 10 games of the season, they would be in great shape. Go 4-3 against the Cubs, and they all but wrap up the division. Go 3-4 and they'll all but wrap up the wild card and will still have a great shot at the division (depending upon what Brewers do). And with a 3-game lead, even going 2-5 wouldn't be disastrous for the Cardinals (though it obviously wouldn't be good).
We all thought this last stretch would be interesting, and we ended up not being wrong.
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Whoops typo my bad. I meant HITS .....6 HITS not runs...and that is the reason for the confusion with the other run stat on my mind as well.
The MLB record Gray broke was 32 straight starts 6 hits or less. He was previously tied with Nolan Ryan.
The other Reds 4 runs or less stat/list is correct.
I would guess there is a significant difference in innings pitched over those 32 starts.
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Well, now it's 2 home losses in a row to the Reds.
Burn it to the ground.
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I would guess there is a significant difference in innings pitched over those 32 starts.
It’s just for fun. Baseball, similar to any sport, cannot really definitely compare eras, records, etc...because all players cannot play in all eras. And of course, circumstances are different in different eras. You can get a pretty good idea of better and best within a similar era.
Interestingly enough, Sonny Gray’s streak is 179.2 innings. Nolan Ryan? 178. Ryan was older when he did it (44) and he was pitching less innings. It’s difficult to do. .....Take strikeouts for example, if some pitchers pitched more innings in the past, some of those have less K’s per inning, compared to some of the modern era.
The overall point is that Gray is a pretty good pitcher and has been at multiple stops over periods of time.
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Well, now it's 2 home losses in a row to the Reds.
I was thinking about 2 weeks ago that if the Cardinals can take a 3-game lead into these last 10 games of the season, they would be in great shape. Go 4-3 against the Cubs, and they all but wrap up the division. Go 3-4 and they'll all but wrap up the wild card and will still have a great shot at the division (depending upon what Brewers do). And with a 3-game lead, even going 2-5 wouldn't be disastrous for the Cardinals (though it obviously wouldn't be good).
We all thought this last stretch would be interesting, and we ended up not being wrong.
Very interesting indeed. I honestly have no idea who to cheer for from the Crew's perspective. I suppose that's good. Just go out and win as many as possible. Everything else will take care of itself.
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It’s just for fun. Baseball, similar to any sport, cannot really definitely compare eras, records, etc...because all players cannot play in all eras. And of course, circumstances are different in different eras. You can get a pretty good idea of better and best within a similar era.
Interestingly enough, Sonny Gray’s streak is 179.2 innings. Nolan Ryan? 178. Ryan was older when he did it (44) and he was pitching less innings. It’s difficult to do. .....Take strikeouts for example, if some pitchers pitched more innings in the past, some of those have less K’s per inning, compared to some of the modern era.
The overall point is that Gray is a pretty good pitcher and has been at multiple stops over periods of time.
You first point is certainly true.
Your second is very surprising, obviously I would have guessed Ryan far out paced Sonny.
Your overall point is something with which I agree.
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It's possible the Cards, Cubs and Brewers all end up in the post season.
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Whoops typo my bad. I meant HITS .....6 HITS not runs...and that is the reason for the confusion with the other run stat on my mind as well.
The MLB record Gray broke was 32 straight starts 6 hits or less. He was previously tied with Nolan Ryan.
The other Reds 4 runs or less stat/list is correct.
Wow Six hits or less in every start over a season of starts is a great record I saw Nolan pitch many times He battled each hitter like no other Almost irrespective of game situations he would either strike you out or walk you but he never pitched to contact That Sonny is in the same mention is a real credit to his craft
Thanks for clarifying and yes Sonny Gray is very good
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Very interesting indeed. I honestly have no idea who to cheer for from the Crew's perspective. I suppose that's good. Just go out and win as many as possible. Everything else will take care of itself.
It depends on the day. If the Brewers win, cheer for the Cubs (puts the division in play). If the Brewers lose, cheer for the Cardinals (give up on the division and go for the WC)
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https://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/meet-the-nine-year-old-cancer-survivor-who-designed-michael-kopechs-t-shirt-6b4d19d6d9e0
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One more thought on remaining schedules. The Brewers actually do control their own destiny for a playoff spot. 8 wins and they clinch at least a tie with one of the Cubs or Cardinals.
Current Standings:
Cardinals: 85-67
Cubs: 82-70
Brewers: 82-70
Assuming the Cubs and Cardinals each win their remaining non-Cubs/Cards games, they will get to 85 and 88 wins each. From there, we can look at their records against each other to figure out their max wins possible.
Cards 7-0 -> Max # of wins: Cards 95, Cubs 85
Cards 6-1 -> Max # of wins: Cards 94, Cubs 86
Cards 5-2 -> Max # of wins: Cards 93, Cubs 87
Cards 4-3 -> Max # of wins: Cards 92, Cubs 88
Cubs 4-3 -> Max # of wins: Cards 91, Cubs 89
Cubs 5-2 -> Max # of wins: Cards 90, Cubs 90
Cubs 6-1 -> Max # of wins: Cards 89, Cubs 91
Cubs 7-0 -> Max # of wins: Cards 88, Cubs 92
The magic number is 90 wins. In no scenario can both the Cubs AND Cardinals exceed 90 wins. So if the Brewers hit 90, they force AT LEAST a tie for the wild card. That's 8 more wins needed.
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https://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/meet-the-nine-year-old-cancer-survivor-who-designed-michael-kopechs-t-shirt-6b4d19d6d9e0
Well that is just so very awesome!
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One more thought on remaining schedules. The Brewers actually do control their own destiny for a playoff spot. 8 wins and they clinch at least a tie with one of the Cubs or Cardinals.
Current Standings:
Cardinals: 85-67
Cubs: 82-70
Brewers: 82-70
Assuming the Cubs and Cardinals each win their remaining non-Cubs/Cards games, they will get to 85 and 88 wins each. From there, we can look at their records against each other to figure out their max wins possible.
Cards 7-0 -> Max # of wins: Cards 95, Cubs 85
Cards 6-1 -> Max # of wins: Cards 94, Cubs 86
Cards 5-2 -> Max # of wins: Cards 93, Cubs 87
Cards 4-3 -> Max # of wins: Cards 92, Cubs 88
Cubs 4-3 -> Max # of wins: Cards 91, Cubs 89
Cubs 5-2 -> Max # of wins: Cards 90, Cubs 90
Cubs 6-1 -> Max # of wins: Cards 89, Cubs 91
Cubs 7-0 -> Max # of wins: Cards 88, Cubs 92
The magic number is 90 wins. In no scenario can both the Cubs AND Cardinals exceed 90 wins. So if the Brewers hit 90, they force AT LEAST a tie for the wild card. That's 8 more wins needed.
We did this a few pages ago SaveO. Try to keep up kid. There's a quiz tomorrow. ;)
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Burn it to the ground.
Well, I didn't say that. But sure, I like sarcasm as much as the next guy, probably more.
My son's a big Cubbie fan so he's sure hoping not to have to get out his matches.
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Well that is just so very awesome!
Thanks!
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Thanks!
Too cool, Dish. The pics of the kids are awesome.
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Will be at the Cubs/Cards game tonight. While I’m a brewers fan (can both teams lose?), it should be a heck of atmosphere there tonight. Playoff-esque.
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https://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/meet-the-nine-year-old-cancer-survivor-who-designed-michael-kopechs-t-shirt-6b4d19d6d9e0
That is terrific. Happy for him and your family.
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It's possible the Cards, Cubs and Brewers all end up in the post season.
My vote is yes, and would take that scenario now. We are limping in.
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Ahem. Crew up to 68% to make the postseason after today's win according to fivethirtyeight.
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Ahem. Crew up to 68% to make the postseason after today's win according to fivethirtyeight.
Great series by the Crew. Did what they needed to. Now sit back and see who they gain a game on.
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I couldn't decide who to cheer for in this STL-CHC series, so I'm just cheering for both teams to have fun and play 7 18-inning games.
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I couldn't decide who to cheer for in this STL-CHC series, so I'm just cheering for both teams to have fun and play 7 18-inning games.
Maybe this will finally be the weekend that all of the code violations and latent structural defects finally catch up with the Wrigley Field clubhouses.
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Maybe this will finally be the weekend that all of the code violations and latent structural defects finally catch up with the Wrigley Field clubhouses.
Guess what little Cubbie Bear crapped in his bed tonight?
Or was it that angry redbird who crapped all over the Cubbie Bear?
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Guess what little Cubbie Bear crapped in his bed tonight?
Or was it that angry redbird who crapped all over the Cubbie Bear?
Heartbreaking loss for Cubbieland. Battled back from 3-run deficit in 9th inning only to blow it in the 10th.
Craig Kimbrel = Rick Aguilera 2.0
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Heartbreaking loss for Cubbieland. Battled back from 3-run deficit in 9th inning only to blow it in the 10th.
Craig Kimbrel = Rick Aguilera 2.0
MAKES UP FOR THE DAMN SANDBURG GAME BACK IN 1984!!!!!!!
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That was heartbreaking for the Cubs, no doubt. Frankly it would have been better for their psyche to have been simply mowed down by Flaherty. They probably need 2 out of 3 this weekend.
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Heartbreaking loss for Cubbieland. Battled back from 3-run deficit in 9th inning only to blow it in the 10th.
Craig Kimbrel = Rick Aguilera 2.0
Kimbrel has been a disaster. How many years do the Cubs have to pay him? ;D
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Interesting that on Wednesday night, all three teams fighting for the AL Wildcard spots won one-run games in extra innings. It's a good race, and quite possible that a 95-win team will miss the playoffs.*
Looks like that has only happened once in the wildcard era with the 96-win Reds missing the 1999 playoffs. It's never happened since they expanded to two wildcard teams per league.
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Well, I didn't say that. But sure, I like sarcasm as much as the next guy, probably more.
My son's a big Cubbie fan so he's sure hoping not to have to get out his matches.
Burn it to the ground.
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That was heartbreaking for the Cubs, no doubt. Frankly it would have been better for their psyche to have been simply mowed down by Flaherty. They probably need 2 out of 3 this weekend.
Disagree. I was glad to get a glimmer of hope and see them remember how to score runs and get clutch hits. Makes me more optimistic for the rest of the weekend. Need a quality start from Q today.
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https://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/meet-the-nine-year-old-cancer-survivor-who-designed-michael-kopechs-t-shirt-6b4d19d6d9e0
So cool. Crazy to think it's already been four years. Love seeing these updates about the family. Congrats!
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Disagree. I was glad to get a glimmer of hope and see them remember how to score runs and get clutch hits. Makes me more optimistic for the rest of the weekend. Need a quality start from Q today.
Fair enough. Makes sense.
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So cool. Crazy to think it's already been four years. Love seeing these updates about the family. Congrats!
My favorite stories are from the kids-with-ball-players genre. Gets me every single time. Love it.
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Heartbreaking loss for Cubbieland. Battled back from 3-run deficit in 9th inning only to blow it in the 10th.
Craig Kimbrel = Rick Aguilera 2.0
more like Christina Aguilera
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https://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/meet-the-nine-year-old-cancer-survivor-who-designed-michael-kopechs-t-shirt-6b4d19d6d9e0
absolutely priceless dish. those players are doing this from the heart. as a kid, that is just so cool. the power of a pro athlete on a kid's psyche is beyond awesome
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https://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/meet-the-nine-year-old-cancer-survivor-who-designed-michael-kopechs-t-shirt-6b4d19d6d9e0
Awesome. Following Bradley's story here has been one of Scoop's finest moments. Also a big shout out to you and your wife plus your donor daughter who are also heroes.
#wineveryday
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This Cubbie Choke isn't quite as classic as the 2004 gag-a-rama, but it's still pretty impressive the ways they are finding to blow these games and the playoff spot that goes with it.
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The Brewers in #Craigtember
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/xXvIkTu08XQLC/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a526f3f94c6909692b4437f7cb5e519903ab6d444&rid=giphy.gif)
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C'mon Flubs. At least freakin' try.
#Crew ;D
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The Brewers in #Craigtember
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/xXvIkTu08XQLC/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a526f3f94c6909692b4437f7cb5e519903ab6d444&rid=giphy.gif)
+1
Couns should be allowed 40 in post season, just because. 8-)
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+1
Couns should be allowed 40 in post season, just because. 8-)
I feel that’s the part about the Brewers strategy that frustrates fans. Stearns will look for the fringe guys that perform almost as well as the main free agents. It just takes awhile for them to figure out what works and not.
ETA: for the record,love Stearns. Talking about the Brewer fans that lose it during the offseason and deadline. Granted, I was hoping for more during the deadline, and I stand corrected since he got great value this year.
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A think the strategy is fine. A lot of the “main free agents” get paid too much based on past performance and their contracts become difficult to manage.
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I feel that’s the part about the Brewers strategy that frustrates fans. Stearns will look for the fringe guys that perform almost as well as the main free agents. It just takes awhile for them to figure out what works and not.
ETA: for the record,love Stearns. Talking about the Brewer fans that lose it during the offseason and deadline. Granted, I was hoping for more during the deadline, and I stand corrected since he got great value this year.
Honestly, it's a magnificent strategy for a small market team like MKE. And Stearns seems to be particularly good at it with B- level pitchers that sometimes can't sustain forever. Let me give you 2 examples. Last year Chacin might have been the best 'value' starter in all of baseball. And he will forever go down in Brewer lore for what he contributed. But this year he couldn't do it. And he was DFAed just a few weeks before his contract expired. Also last year Anderson, one of the mainstays of the starting pool, just couldn't get it going. This year he might just be the guy that starts a wild card game. On top of that, young guys like Corbin and Freddy are going to be given every chance to get it going because they cost nothing.
Here's what the Brewers can't do. They can't go out and sign guys like Darvish, Kimbrel or even Arrieta, because a long term mistake will cripple them for years. They can do more of that with proven position players because it seems at least to me that performance is more predictable and consistent. Who honestly doesn't thing Cain will have a good year next year once he gets the knee cleaned up?
For me, that's why it's so very easy to dislike the 'big market' clubs. Ah, a $100MM mistake? No matter, we'll just sign another one.
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Honestly, it's a magnificent strategy for a small market team like MKE. And Stearns seems to be particularly good at it with B- level pitchers that sometimes can't sustain forever. Let me give you 2 examples. Last year Chacin might have been the best 'value' starter in all of baseball. And he will forever go down in Brewer lore for what he contributed. But this year he couldn't do it. And he was DFAed just a few weeks before his contract expired. Also last year Anderson, one of the mainstays of the starting pool, just couldn't get it going. This year he might just be the guy that starts a wild card game. On top of that, young guys like Corbin and Freddy are going to be given every chance to get it going because they cost nothing.
Here's what the Brewers can't do. They can't go out and sign guys like Darvish, Kimbrel or even Arrieta, because a long term mistake will cripple them for years. They can do more of that with proven position players because it seems at least to me that performance is more predictable and consistent. Who honestly doesn't thing Cain will have a good year next year once he gets the knee cleaned up?
For me, that's why it's so very easy to dislike the 'big market' clubs. Ah, a $100MM mistake? No matter, we'll just sign another one.
It’s the A’s Moneyball strategy. And it has worked well for years for Billy Beane. They key thing missing from above is you must have a very good farm system.
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https://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/meet-the-nine-year-old-cancer-survivor-who-designed-michael-kopechs-t-shirt-6b4d19d6d9e0
You guys are always in my prayers. Love stories like yours. Here is another though not as poignant as yours.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/carl-yastrzemski-mike-yastrzemski-first-pitch-giants-red-sox
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Kimbrel simply sucks. ;D
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Kimbrel simply sucks. ;D
Earning that big paycheck. He has definitely been good for the Crews hopes this year. Maybe Theo will ask Stearns to pay part of his salary.
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Kimbrel simply sucks. ;D
Absolute trash
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Earning that big paycheck. He has definitely been good for the Crews hopes this year. Maybe Theo will ask Stearns to pay part of his salary.
Naw man, he's cost us a shot at the division title. We need you guys to beat the Cardinals!
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Naw man, he's cost us a shot at the division title. We need you guys to beat the Cardinals!
While possibly true and while I have zero love for the Cards, anything that sends the Cubs fans home unhappy is all good in my book.
That's 5 straight losses. That's gonna leave a mark. ;D
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Epic choke.
Kimbrel used to be Davante Gardner. Now he's only automatic for the opponent.
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Last game ever on WGN. That doesn’t feel right.
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Joe's already packing up his things and shipping them to San Diego
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Last game ever on WGN. That doesn’t feel right.
Where are the games moving? All comcast sports?
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Last game ever on WGN. That doesn’t feel right.
Hey hey hey.
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Where are the games moving? All comcast sports?
The Cubs Network where you can pay a premium to watch this crap.
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15 days ago the brewers were 5 games back of the cubs.
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While possibly true and while I have zero love for the Cards, anything that sends the Cubs fans home unhappy is all good in my book.
That's 5 straight losses. That's gonna leave a mark. ;D
I agree with this analysis.
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The Cubs Network where you can pay a premium to watch this crap.
This ^^^^^
And they want a lot of money for the network. Will be interesting to see who carries it, especially now that Sinclair owns the rights. DISH has already dropped all Sinclair RSNs. It will be called Marquee Sports.
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Great article on the Cubs woes starting at the top...
https://chicago.suntimes.com/cubs/2019/9/21/20877470/any-reckoning-should-start-at-top-for-a-cubs-team-that-performed-as-well-as-its-roster-was-built
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(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zuG6iFFS9fE/TDNjMgw0BSI/AAAAAAAAAtQ/zpV3LHQMLxk/s1600/geoff-jenkins-ankle_443495a.jpg)
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Last game ever on WGN. That doesn’t feel right.
Rest of the country they been off WGN for years now.
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Rest of the country they been off WGN for years now.
[/quote
Yes, this.
Whenever a Cubs game is listed as on WGN, it is only shown on WGN in Chicago. The rest of the country gets reruns of old tv shows from several decades ago instead of Cubs game. It has been better for the rest of the country in recent years when their games have not been on WGN or local ABC 7. The truly old days of national WGN games were great, but it's been a while.
As for their new station, it will be interesting of DirecTV or Dish even carry it. Dodgers situation in L.A. gas been disastrous for many years. There are about 22 Fox Sports Regional and similar networks that have not been on Dish for months. First with Disney, now Sinclair. It is a better financial deal for Dish to not pay that money for months or longer than it is to lose some subscribers. This of course draws the ire of sports fans.
I've been looking for various family accounts in different markets, and right now there is a lot of uncertainty out there.
Dish had been the least expensive for me but still had many of the sought after channels. They have recently publicly stated a desire to move away from sports. DirecTV has shown on various channels sports and non that it too will go long periods without programming and deals. Now they have been coming close to losing ESPN channels, Tennis Channel etc...it gets exhausting for customers. Cable has been more expensive than either of those. Youtube TV has been good but it's now $50 without movie channels and a few others. But you can share accounts which helps for now. It's definitely a year by year or less and re-evaluate situation. It's good that most MU games are easy to find and get on various platforms.
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Rest of the country they been off WGN for years now.
[/quote
Yes, this.
Whenever a Cubs game is listed as on WGN, it is only shown on WGN in Chicago. The rest of the country gets reruns of old tv shows from several decades ago instead of Cubs game. It has been better for the rest of the country in recent years when their games have not been on WGN or local ABC 7. The truly old days of national WGN games were great, but it's been a while.
As for their new station, it will be interesting of DirecTV or Dish even carry it. Dodgers situation in L.A. gas been disastrous for many years. There are about 22 Fox Sports Regional and similar networks that have not been on Dish for months. First with Disney, now Sinclair. It is a better financial deal for Dish to not pay that money for months or longer than it is to lose some subscribers. This of course draws the ire of sports fans.
I've been looking for various family accounts in different markets, and right now there is a lot of uncertainty out there.
Dish had been the least expensive for me but still had many of the sought after channels. They have recently publicly stated a desire to move away from sports. DirecTV has shown on various channels sports and non that it too will go long periods without programming and deals. Now they have been coming close to losing ESPN channels, Tennis Channel etc...it gets exhausting for customers. Cable has been more expensive than either of those. Youtube TV has been good but it's now $50 without movie channels and a few others. But you can share accounts which helps for now. It's definitely a year by year or less and re-evaluate situation. It's good that most MU games are easy to find and get on various platforms.
The Dodgers made their own bed here. Pretty decent article explains Cubs Dodgers RSN situation below.
Customers complain about losing channels, but complain about prices going up....a distributor in an impossible situation. If they fight the programmer to hold costs, they alienate customers. If they cave, they alienate customers. This is all coming to YouTube, VUE, etc. just happens to be the contract cycle at the moment and their turn is next.
https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/2019-09-20/cubs-dodgers-tv-marquee-sinclair-comcast-spectrum
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15 days ago the brewers were 5 games back of the cubs.
Wow ... it's real eye-opening when you put it like that.
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If you saw the Bryant play today, it’s exactly why it’s okay to postpone a game with lots of rain before the game and more on the way.
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Maddon making no effort to manage his pitchers intelligently for the last few weeks. Thanks for the ring and helping a young team gel. But you’ve not had a handle on this team for the end of the season 2 years in a row. Enjoy the FO gig or retirement.
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Cubs season starts and ends in just brutal funks. Have to imagine massive changes coming.
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nelson cruz hit his 400th homer today-he was in the brewers organization 2004-2006. traded to texas with carlos lee for laynce nix, kevin mench and francisco cordero.
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LOL Cubs
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wheres the magic number countdown been from cubs fans this year? that was always a treat especially last year.
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Hey hey Cubbies what do you say, maybe a hundred years from today.
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Cubs-Brewers rivalry chirps I get. But Brewers fans making fun of ineptitude or long droughts when you haven’t won a pennant in 40 years and don’t have a WS period seems pretty moronic.
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LOL Cubs
I was thinking more "RIP Cubs."
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Rest of the country they been off WGN for years now.
My reference was for us in Chicago. Yesterday was an end of an era.
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Cubs-Brewers rivalry chirps I get. But Brewers fans making fun of ineptitude or long droughts when you haven’t won a pennant in 40 years and don’t have a WS period seems pretty moronic.
Only Cubs fans are allowed to act like their team has done something when they haven't in a century.
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Maddon making no effort to manage his pitchers intelligently for the last few weeks. Thanks for the ring and helping a young team gel. But you’ve not had a handle on this team for the end of the season 2 years in a row. Enjoy the FO gig or retirement.
This goes beyond the manager. This last week was an appropriate summary of the year, the 9th inning especially. Darvish looked to throw strike three on Goldy, but did not get the call. The next pitch was the double to give the Cards the go ahead lead. Maddon could have pulled him, but the bullpen has no confidence. Theo Epstein's moves this year, or lack of them, is what has been distressing. A team usually has a window of a few years and he didn't make many changes in my opinion to capitalize for this year.
Thank you Zobrist. Maybe he is back, but no guarantees. Strop and Hamels are likely gone.
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This goes beyond the manager. This last week was an appropriate summary of the year, the 9th inning especially. Darvish looked to throw strike three on Goldy, but did not get the call. The next pitch was the double to give the Cards the go ahead lead. Maddon could have pulled him, but the bullpen has no confidence. Theo Epstein's moves this year, or lack of them, is what has been distressing. A team usually has a window of a few years and he didn't make many changes in my opinion to capitalize for this year.
Thank you Zobrist. Maybe he is back, but no guarantees. Strop and Hamels are likely gone.
Lack of moves? In regards to what exactly?
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https://mobile.twitter.com/si_mlb/status/1175817742009737217?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1175817742009737217&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fmlb%2F2019%2F09%2F22%2Fyankees-honor-cc-sabathia-during-pregame-ceremony
This is pretty awesome. In 2008 CC had the most complete games in the AL and the most complete games in the NL.
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(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AABvlp0.img?x=1&y=1&f=PNG&h=336&w=624&m=5&q=60&b=white)
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Only Cubs fans are allowed to act like their team has done something when they haven't in a century.
There is no meaningful time period over more than a year or two where the Brewers have outperformed the Cubs in playoff appearances, or division titles, or whatever, even with all the inept cursed nonsense. But sure, just flip it back to Cubs fans being delusional cause your complex is unimpeachable.
Congrats on finishing the season on a tear for the second year in a row, Counsell is far superior to Maddon in pulling those levers. Good luck with Scherzer in the decider. Try to enjoy it without making some pathetic dig about the Cubs.
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One thing that always surprised me is how close the all time series between the Brewers and Cubs is. Currently sits at 180-189 in favor of the baby bears. Brewers held the series lead as recently as 2015.
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There is no meaningful time period over more than a year or two where the Brewers have outperformed the Cubs in playoff appearances, or division titles, or whatever, even with all the inept cursed nonsense. But sure, just flip it back to Cubs fans being delusional cause your complex is unimpeachable.
Congrats on finishing the season on a tear for the second year in a row, Counsell is far superior to Maddon in pulling those levers. Good luck with Scherzer in the decider. Try to enjoy it without making some pathetic dig about the Cubs.
I don’t think I’ve been taking many digs at the Cubs at all. I just find it funny that the Cubs win one title in 108 years and suddenly they’re so far superior to the Brewers that the Brewers should never be talking about the Cubs losing history. Especially when the Cubs were sitting 5 games up of the Brewers AGAIN with less than a month to play and a payroll of nearly $100M more than the Brewers. 2016 was supposed to be the start of a Cubs dynasty. At least last year they got it to a game 163. Would’ve been nice for the Cubs to have at least kept it competitive to game 162 so maybe the Nats would’ve had to use their full rotation through the end of the season.
But I appreciate the good luck wishes. Everything is gravy in my books. This Brewers team stinks and we’re going to the Playoffs. Pretty remarkable given over the final 2 months seasons we missed multiple weeks of our MVP, our 2nd and 4th best hitters, and our best pitcher, plus our closer missed the entire season.
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JWags, while I agree that wades can be a bit much at times, let me try to give you a perspective that might be a bit more realistic. See we Crew fans understand that sustained success will be somewhat fleeting when playing in the smallest market in the league. There is zero chance our guys can win pennants and world series every year because it's impossible for us to buy talent. This discussion came up in the NFL thread where a national TV contract and a hard salary cap make nearly perfect economic leveling possible. That will never happen in baseball.
So what we've learned to enjoy is when our rival dumps a bajillion dollars into some loser (and you have to admit that the Cubs have an awfully impressive record in that regard) and when we beat them over a game, series or year. For many Brewers fans, game 163 last year was a highlight we won't soon forget. Was that a WS win? Of course not. But it was a little like when the pretty cheerleader went to the dance with us rather than going with the star QB.
Enjoy the off season. We still have some ball to play and will relish every moment it extends into October, be it one game or an extended run.
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There is no meaningful time period over more than a year or two where the Brewers have outperformed the Cubs in playoff appearances, or division titles, or whatever, even with all the inept cursed nonsense. But sure, just flip it back to Cubs fans being delusional cause your complex is unimpeachable.
Congrats on finishing the season on a tear for the second year in a row, Counsell is far superior to Maddon in pulling those levers. Good luck with Scherzer in the decider. Try to enjoy it without making some pathetic dig about the Cubs.
Agreeing with a cardinals fan? Well crap
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we missed multiple weeks of our MVP, our 2nd and 4th best hitters, and our best pitcher, plus our closer missed the entire season.
You know this statement is doublely true for the Cubs right?
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Trash talking over who gets the right to play in a game where the winner gets trucked by the Dodgers...
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You know this statement is doublely true for the Cubs right?
Doubly true for the Cubs? Lol!
You missed Baez for 15 games. You missed Rizzo for 3 games. And now you'll miss Kris Bryant for the final 3 games of the season after you're essentially already eliminated from the Playoffs.
One team overcame much lengthier injuries. The other completely folded.
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JWags, while I agree that wades can be a bit much at times, let me try to give you a perspective that might be a bit more realistic. See we Crew fans understand that sustained success will be somewhat fleeting when playing in the smallest market in the league. There is zero chance our guys can win pennants and world series every year because it's impossible for us to buy talent. This discussion came up in the NFL thread where a national TV contract and a hard salary cap make nearly perfect economic leveling possible. That will never happen in baseball.
So what we've learned to enjoy is when our rival dumps a bajillion dollars into some loser (and you have to admit that the Cubs have an awfully impressive record in that regard) and when we beat them over a game, series or year. For many Brewers fans, game 163 last year was a highlight we won't soon forget. Was that a WS win? Of course not. But it was a little like when the pretty cheerleader went to the dance with us rather than going with the star QB.
Enjoy the off season. We still have some ball to play and will relish every moment it extends into October, be it one game or an extended run.
Glow, as a Yankee fan I get it. The Yanks spent bajillion on Stanton. He has played in about a dozen games this year, yet he'll probably be on the roster for the playoffs, taking a spot for a player who played most of the season and got them into the post season. If it happens it is just sickening to me.
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Agreeing with a cardinals fan? Well crap
I'm pretty sure JWags isn't a Cardinals fan...
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Only Cubs fans are allowed to act like their team has done something when they haven't in a century.
I have no horse in the Cubs-Brewers debate, but to be fair, wades, the Cubs HAVE done something fairly recently. Very few people made more fun of the Cubbies being losers than I did when I was living and working in Chicago from 1994-2010 ... but they DID win a championship in 2016. To claim they've done nothing in a century when just 3 years ago they won what every team in baseball wants to win is not very honest.
Doubly true for the Cubs? Lol!
You missed Baez for 15 games. You missed Rizzo for 3 games. And now you'll miss Kris Bryant for the final 3 games of the season after you're essentially already eliminated from the Playoffs.
One team overcame much lengthier injuries. The other completely folded.
That, of course, is true.
I just find it funny that the Cubs win one title in 108 years and suddenly they’re so far superior to the Brewers that the Brewers should never be talking about the Cubs losing history. Especially when the Cubs were sitting 5 games up of the Brewers AGAIN with less than a month to play and a payroll of nearly $100M more than the Brewers. 2016 was supposed to be the start of a Cubs dynasty. At least last year they got it to a game 163.
But I appreciate the good luck wishes. Everything is gravy in my books. This Brewers team stinks and we’re going to the Playoffs. Pretty remarkable given over the final 2 months seasons we missed multiple weeks of our MVP, our 2nd and 4th best hitters, and our best pitcher, plus our closer missed the entire season.
As is all of the above, especially about the coming Cubbie Dynasty. Reminds me of the Bear Dynasty that was supposed to have begun in 1985.
Crew fans understand that sustained success will be somewhat fleeting when playing in the smallest market in the league. There is zero chance our guys can win pennants and world series every year because it's impossible for us to buy talent. This discussion came up in the NFL thread where a national TV contract and a hard salary cap make nearly perfect economic leveling possible. That will never happen in baseball.
So what we've learned to enjoy is when our rival dumps a bajillion dollars into some loser (and you have to admit that the Cubs have an awfully impressive record in that regard) and when we beat them over a game, series or year. For many Brewers fans, game 163 last year was a highlight we won't soon forget. Was that a WS win? Of course not. But it was a little like when the pretty cheerleader went to the dance with us rather than going with the star QB.
Enjoy the off season. We still have some ball to play and will relish every moment it extends into October, be it one game or an extended run.
Thanks for this perspective, glow.
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Glow, as a Yankee fan I get it. The Yanks spent bajillion on Stanton. He has played in about a dozen games this year, yet he'll probably be on the roster for the playoffs, taking a spot for a player who played most of the season and got them into the post season. If it happens it is just sickening to me.
As a Red Sox fan, in the playoffs last year the Yankees had a bunch of scary hitters, but I felt relieved every time Stanton came up. He had some of the worst ABs you will ever see. You didn't need to throw a strike when he was up in a big spot.
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As is all of the above, especially about the coming Cubbie Dynasty. Reminds me of the Bear Dynasty that was supposed to have begun in 1985.
Unfortunately, this is gross.
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Unfortunately, this is gross.
Fewer teams in sports history wasted more talent for more years than the late-80s Bears did. Rarely has there been a case of a bunch of guys who became all about me-me-me to the detriment of the team, and it started at the top with the coach.
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Fewer teams in sports history wasted more talent for more years than the late-80s Bears did. Rarely has there been a case of a bunch of guys who became all about me-me-me to the detriment of the team, and it started at the top with the coach.
It's not like they were bad by any means. After their Super Bowl, they finished 14-2, 11-4 and 12-4 and had the #2, #2 and #1 seed in the NFC Playoffs. They ended up losing playoff games at home each of those years (to the Skins, Skins and Niners)
I just think dynasties are easy to predict but hard to achieve. (Packer fan here looking at both 1996 and 2010 and sighing.)
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It's not like they were bad by any means. After their Super Bowl, they finished 14-2, 11-4 and 12-4 and had the #2, #2 and #1 seed in the NFC Playoffs. They ended up losing playoff games at home each of those years (to the Skins, Skins and Niners)
I just think dynasties are easy to predict but hard to achieve. (Packer fan here looking at both 1996 and 2010 and sighing.)
They absolutely weren't bad. But when you get that level of talent - and, unlike those Packers IMHO, it was once-in-a-generation talent the Bears had - it's all about championships. And the Bears couldn't even get back to a Super Bowl, let alone win one.
Totally agree with your line about dynasties. It's why I don't hold it against Phil Jackson that he had Michael and Scottie and Kobe and Shaq, or why I don't hold it against Torre that he had all that high-price Yankee talent. Yes, those guys had great players to work with, but you still have to win year after year when everybody is gunning for you.
Jackson and Torre did. Ditka did not despite all the regular-season wins and generational talent.
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Trash talking over who gets the right to play in a game where the winner gets trucked by the Dodgers...
Yeah, that likely seems the case but Chance of Not Getting Trucked is better than Sitting at Home After Collapsing
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They absolutely weren't bad. But when you get that level of talent - and, unlike those Packers IMHO, it was once-in-a-generation talent the Bears had - it's all about championships. And the Bears couldn't even get back to a Super Bowl, let alone win one.
Totally agree with your line about dynasties. It's why I don't hold it against Phil Jackson that he had Michael and Scottie and Kobe and Shaq, or why I don't hold it against Torre that he had all that high-price Yankee talent. Yes, those guys had great players to work with, but you still have to win year after year when everybody is gunning for you.
Jackson and Torre did. Ditka did not despite all the regular-season wins and generational talent.
Which is why I think it is odd how muted Bruce Bochy's retirement has been. Three World Series championships in five years these days is an incredible accomplishment.
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Trash talking over who gets the right to play in a game where the winner gets trucked by the Dodgers...
This has been true for more than half the season, and is also probable for both of the other division winners. I'd put the over/under on Dodgers losses before the WS at like 2.5.
None of this makes the Cubs' repeated ability to shoot themselves in the dick any less funny.
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As a Red Sox fan, in the playoffs last year the Yankees had a bunch of scary hitters, but I felt relieved every time Stanton came up. He had some of the worst ABs you will ever see. You didn't need to throw a strike when he was up in a big spot.
All these injuries have really hurt his development as a hitter. His entire career to date, the more games he plays in a season, the higher his average is that year. Maybe not too unusual for guys battling injuries to have poorer results, but for a young hitter with that much power, have to think his inability to stay on the field has hurt his hit tool development.
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Which is why I think it is odd how muted Bruce Bochy's retirement has been. Three World Series championships in five years these days is an incredible accomplishment.
Not quite a dynasty, but close.
Hey, at least he got to keep his job. Joel Quenneville accomplished similar with the Blackhawks (3 titles in 6 years for a franchise that hadn't won in nearly a half-century) but was sent packing after the Hawks won less in great part because they faced a salary-cap reckoning. He didn't suddenly become a bad coach, though as Phil Jackson used to say every coach has a "shelf life."
Maddon probably hit his shelf life with the Cubbies. Ozzie certainly did with the White Sox. Eventually, the zillionaires under a leader's employ tune him out.
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There is no meaningful time period over more than a year or two where the Brewers have outperformed the Cubs in playoff appearances, or division titles, or whatever....
There are a few hundred combinations of professional sports teams you could throw into an equation like this and have it be true.
Heck... basically, all you've done is set aside the true dynasties and grossly oversimplify everyone else.
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There are a few hundred combinations of professional sports teams you could throw into an equation like this and have it be true.
Heck... basically, all you've done is set aside the true dynasties and grossly oversimplify everyone else.
That’s fine, but to me it’s relevant when one team who is lacking in success mocks the failings of their more successful rival. A Vikings fan mocking the Packers “waste” of Rodgers prime, when they won 1 playoff game and the Packers won a SB and twice as many division titles in that time, would elicit the exact same reaction from me
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That’s fine, but to me it’s relevant when one team who is lacking in success mocks the failings of their more successful rival. A Vikings fan mocking the Packers “waste” of Rodgers prime, when they won 1 playoff game and the Packers won a SB and twice as many division titles in that time, would elicit the exact same reaction from me
Or a Bears fan talking about the Packers only getting two Super Bowls out of two all time great QBs?
It's sports. If you really don't think a fanbase can have some fun at the expense of a more successful rival then you're missing out on being a sports fan. Not to mention it's not like the Cubs are some all time great franchise. We're not talking Rays fans making fun of the Yankees here. We're talking about an unsuccessful franchise's fanbase having some fun with another unsuccessful franchise's fanbase when they've went back to back years of blowing 5+ game leads in September on them. If you're going to be doing a "magic number countdown" every time your team is good don't be surprised if your *non* rival's fans ask where it is if things aren't going so great.
Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but not sorry.
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That’s fine, but to me it’s relevant when one team who is lacking in success mocks the failings of their more successful rival. A Vikings fan mocking the Packers “waste” of Rodgers prime, when they won 1 playoff game and the Packers won a SB and twice as many division titles in that time, would elicit the exact same reaction from me
So I guess it's okay for the Cubs to be mocked by the Cardinal fans? Wades seemingly had both feet inbounds here JWags. I haven't gone back to look at the history but if you've chirped (totally legitimately) about Cubs success when it happens right now the answer is 'Yeah, you got me.' It's all fun brother. :)
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Or a Bears fan talking about the Packers only getting two Super Bowls out of two all time great QBs?
It's sports. If you really don't think a fanbase can have some fun at the expense of a more successful rival then you're missing out on being a sports fan. Not to mention it's not like the Cubs are some all time great franchise. We're not talking Rays fans making fun of the Yankees here. We're talking about an unsuccessful franchise's fanbase having some fun with another unsuccessful franchise's fanbase when they've went back to back years of blowing 5+ game leads in September on them. If you're going to be doing a "magic number countdown" every time your team is good don't be surprised if your *non* rival's fans ask where it is in things aren't going so great.
Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but not sorry.
Bears fans who do that are idiots too. Same ones who hold on to 1985 like it’s the cure for cancer. It doesn’t hurt my feelings, I just think it’s dumb.
So I guess it's okay for the Cubs to be mocked by the Cardinal fans? Wades seemingly had both feet inbounds here JWags. I haven't gone back to look at the history but if you've chirped (totally legitimately) about Cubs success when it happens right now the answer is 'Yeah, you got me.' It's all fun brother. :)
How did I get framed as a Cardinals fan? :o Thats twice on that misperception now.
And i think Cardinals fans are lame cause of their “BFIB” nonsense and thinking they have some moral fan superiority. But in terms of mocking and digging the Cubs from a results standpoint, they have all the success and credibility to do so, as much as it pains me to say it.
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Bears fans who do that are idiots too. Same ones who hold on to 1985 like it’s the cure for cancer. It doesn’t hurt my feelings, I just think it’s dumb.
How did I get framed as a Cardinals fan? :o Thats twice on that misperception now.
And i think Cardinals fans are lame cause of their “BFIB” nonsense and thinking they have some moral fan superiority. But in terms of mocking and digging the Cubs from a results standpoint, they have all the success and credibility to do so, as much as it pains me to say it.
You misunderstand me, my friend. I'm thinking that by your logic some good-natured ribbing FROM a Cardinals fan would be okay because, well, they have a history a Cubs fan like you can only dream of.
Trust me. I'm going full barrel on dgies when we take 'em down in October. ;D
Shut up about '82 dgies!! >:(
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Bears fans who do that are idiots too.
News flash: all sports fans are idiots. It's in our very nature.
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You misunderstand me, my friend. I'm thinking that by your logic some good-natured ribbing FROM a Cardinals fan would be okay because, well, they have a history a Cubs fan like you can only dream of.
Trust me. I'm going full barrel on dgies when we take 'em down in October. ;D
Shut up about '82 dgies!! >:(
Fair enough. I wouldn’t like it, but they have the cache. Too often they waste it with stuff like “well, in STL, we know not to get excited about September. Us Redbird aficionados know the true talent rises in the late stages. Fans at Busch chuckle at fans of those NL foes who get stressed over playoff races”
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Lack of moves? In regards to what exactly?
This view captured it well. The team did what they were built to do and management did not build this team for bigger success this season.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/cubs/2019/9/21/20877470/any-reckoning-should-start-at-top-for-a-cubs-team-that-performed-as-well-as-its-roster-was-built
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This view captured it well. The team did what they were built to do and management did not build this team for bigger success this season.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/cubs/2019/9/21/20877470/any-reckoning-should-start-at-top-for-a-cubs-team-that-performed-as-well-as-its-roster-was-built
Lester's tough go (the numbers actually show he's probably been more unlucky than straight bad), combined with Darvish's strange season, both in the same year, really hurt the Cubs. Its hard to believe, but Darvish will finish with almost identical numbers - and arguably better underlying stats - than his 2017 season when he was worth 3.7 WAR. This year? 2.6. I'm not smart enough to know for sure, but I would guess that has something to do with his inconsisent starts (some great, some awful during his swoon)? Given the state of pitching, I would have guessed that 2017 pitching numbers are worth more in WAR now than they were then.
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Lester's tough go (the numbers actually show he's probably been more unlucky than straight bad)
Hmmm. 4.51 ERA - second worst of his career since he became a full-time big-leaguer in 2008. Career worst 1.5 WHIP, worst among NL qualifiers. Second in the NL in hits allowed. Career high HR allowed. 5.55 ERA since the ASB.
That's a lot of bad luck!
In August and September, he has a 6.45 ERA, allowing a .921 OPS and .330 BA. He might be lucky to be 4-4 in those two months.
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This view captured it well. The team did what they were built to do and management did not build this team for bigger success this season.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/cubs/2019/9/21/20877470/any-reckoning-should-start-at-top-for-a-cubs-team-that-performed-as-well-as-its-roster-was-built
Cheeky,
Thanks for following along.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=post;quote=1157544;topic=58961.550;last_msg=1157843
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Nm
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Excellent recap of the series this weekend: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-cardinals-lay-waste-to-the-cubs-2019-season/
Chances of Cubs losing 4 in a row and Brewers winning 4 in a row was 1 in 240.
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Mets lost, so the Brewers magic number over them is two.
Cubs idle, so the magic number remains at three.
Nats won so they are a half game up. They have a day / night double header today. If they lose this afternoon, the Brewers will control their destiny for home field in the Wild Card game going into this evening's game. (They own the tie-breaker.)
Cards won so the division isn't looking real probable at this point.
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Lost among the Brewers-Cubs stuff (as much as I hate to admit it) is the awesome job the Cardinals coaching staff did with that team. Their position players have been blessed with good health, but they've mixed and matched their spare parts well. And Mike Maddux remains one of the most valuable coaches/managers in all baseball. Flaherty always looked like a stud, but to get 170 IP and a chance to win just about every start along the way from each of Mikolas, Hudson, and the ghost of Wainwright is fantastic work.
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Cards won so the division isn't looking real probable at this point.
Heaven.
I'm in Heaven!!!!
The balance of the world is back to normal. Satan can take his ear muffs off, as things are getting better!
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Lost among the Brewers-Cubs stuff (as much as I hate to admit it) is the awesome job the Cardinals coaching staff did with that team. Their position players have been blessed with good health, but they've mixed and matched their spare parts well. And Mike Maddux remains one of the most valuable coaches/managers in all baseball. Flaherty always looked like a stud, but to get 170 IP and a chance to win just about every start along the way from each of Mikolas, Hudson, and the ghost of Wainwright is fantastic work.
Meh... all that is nowhere near holding a candle to the Cardinals' one true stroke of genius this year: they didn't sign Kimbrel.
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Meh... all that is nowhere near holding a candle to the Cardinals' one true stroke of genius this year: they didn't sign Kimbrel.
(http://i.redd.it/tkekcj6fk7o31.jpg)
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Brewers Cheering Guide (Sep 24):
Brewers to Win, Nats to lose, Cards to lose. (duh)
Cleveland over the White Sox and Tampa Bay over the Yankees. Why: Cleveland is a half-game behind TB for the 2nd wild card in the AL and finish the season with at Washington this weekend. TB's magic number is 6 and they have a day off on Thursday, so at least the Tribe will still be in contention at the start of Friday's game vs. the Nats, but with the Nats a half-game up on the Crew going into today, Brewer fans want CLE playing their best ball all the way through Sunday.
White Sox over Cleveland and Yankees over Tampa Bay. It probably would have been easier simply to say "whatever happens to Cleveland, hope the same thing happens to Tampa Bay."
Cubs over the Pirates. Or maybe not? At this point, it really doesn't matter what the Cubs do... if the Brewers keep winning, the only way they don't benefit is if Washington wins out (which more or less requires a Cleveland collapse).
Granted, the only way the Cardinals lose a Division Title is at the hands of the Cubs. Certainly, it would be great for the D-Backs to do their part, but with last night's loss, they're officially eliminated from the Postseason so who knows what they'll bring the next two games. And sure, the Cubs still have meaningful baseball ahead of them, but the only realistic shot the Crew has at the division probably requires them winning out, which with a magic number of 3 for the Brewers, that would mean the Cubs will be eliminated by Friday.
That being said - and this is where it gets complicated - if the Cubs can sweep the Pirates and the Nats drop four to the Phillies, the Cubs would find themselves just a game behind the Nats heading into Friday's games. That would make the Cardinals' life a little more difficult this weekend... so if you're rooting for the Brewers to win the Division, you want the Cubs in contention through the weekend, which is more likely to occur if Cleveland is also in contention through the weekend. All the while, the Brewers have to keep winning. It's a pretty tall order, and even if all of this still happens, the Brewers' Division hopes likely still come down to a Game 163 in St. Louis.
Of course, I want nothing more than for the Brewers to win the NL Central outright, but frankly, I'd rather give the division to the Cards than play a Game 163, thus putting the Brewers into the best possible position to win the Wild Card game. Albeit a home game, the prospect of having to play a Wild Card game the day after throwing everything out there in St Louis in Game 163, well, suffice to say I don't like those odds... recency bias perhaps, but look no further than what happened to the Cubs last year. Of course, all of this is predicated on the Cubs being in contention until Sunday morning, so if the Cards were forced to throw everything out there against the Cubs on Sunday, perhaps I do take my chances with Game 163. In any event, that's not a choice that's on the table under any circumstances, i.e. if the Brewers end up tied with the Cards, come hell or high water, there will still be a Game 163.
So back to the realm of the realistic... given all possible outcomes over the next few days, the most likely outcome involves the Cubs being eliminated by Saturday morning, so I don't think it's unfair to think that the Cards are pretty well set up to cake walk through Saturday and Sunday... ergo, the Cards clinch the Central with just one win (or Brewers loss) between now and Saturday morning. Nevertheless, if the Nats drop just one game to Philly and has to face a still-going-strong Cleveland this weekend, with the tiebreaker the Brewers are in position to clinch Wild Card "host" before Sunday... accordingly, if Sunday's game is meaningless, that gives CC a bit more room to line up his pitchers for the Wild Card game, although it's a double-edge sword because the Nats would have the same luxury (again, with the Cubs eliminated). So as a Brewers fan, you actually want the Cubs at the Nats' heels as long as possible.
Despite the "rule" of never looking beyond what's in front of you - stupid as it may be - forget about the Brewers clinching the Wild Card... the Cubs rattling off six straight - although not realistic in and of itself - is a prerequisite
to a) the only realistic chance the Brewers have at winning the NL Central or b) the best chance of winning the Wild Card game. In other words, if the Brewers' goal is to get to a 5-game series, two of the three ways for that to happen essentially require the Cubs to go 6-0. And since 6-0 always starts with going 3-0, Hey Hey... Let's go Cubbies!!!
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Wow. You could include that post in a book of short stories. Hopefully you copyrighted it.
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I love it when teams go out and earn spots in the playoff with good play. The Nats, Cards, and Brewers have done so - so far.
The Cubs folded like a cheap suit with no life whatsoever. The Phils and Mets did the same to a lesser extent.
Things can change dramatically in 6 days, but as of now, ALL of the teams that deserve to make it in the NL are in.
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I love it when teams go out and earn spots in the playoff with good play. The Nats, Cards, and Brewers have done so - so far.
The Cubs folded like a cheap suit with no life whatsoever. The Phils and Mets did the same to a lesser extent.
Things can change dramatically in 6 days, but as of now, ALL of the teams that deserve to make it in the NL are in.
Makes me feel bad whomever gets the short straw in the AL. Potential for a 95+ win team to be left out.
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Makes me feel bad whomever gets the short straw in the AL. Potential for a 95+ win team to be left out.
As of today my Astros will home host the winner of the one game AL wildcard playoff...
of the three pending... I most fear the A's ...they have been hot and recently came into our park , taking three out of four from us.
We will have Verlander, Cole , Grienke and all hitters healthy so ...on paper we should go to WS...my guess is though MLB wants us to actually play the games, durn it ...and in baseball anything can happen
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Going out with a whimper...........
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I wasn’t going to doubt Stearns anymore but when his moves to fix the pitching staff were Pomeranz, Black, Faria, and Lyles I thought he was punting the season. Turns out...
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oooooof thats a hell of a 7th inning
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I would say the Cubs have officially mailed it in, but that's an insult to mailing it in.
The 2004 choke was more stunning because it came in the very last week of the season and with guys like Maddux, Prior and Wood on the mound. And the 2003 NLCS Game 6 choke was the most amazing half-hour I've ever personally witnessed.
But this was a pretty impressive choke job.
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I would say the Cubs have officially mailed it in, but that's an insult to mailing it in.
The 2004 choke was more stunning because it came in the very last week of the season and with guys like Maddux, Prior and Wood on the mound. And the 2003 NLCS Game 6 choke was the most amazing half-hour I've ever personally witnessed.
But this was a pretty impressive choke job.
I’d go so far as to say this choke job has now become epic and legendary.
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(https://proimagesports.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/270x270/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/8/1/817285025327.jpg)
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I would say the Cubs have officially mailed it in, but that's an insult to mailing it in.
The 2004 choke was more stunning because it came in the very last week of the season and with guys like Maddux, Prior and Wood on the mound. And the 2003 NLCS Game 6 choke was the most amazing half-hour I've ever personally witnessed.
But this was a pretty impressive choke job.
and
I’d go so far as to say this choke job has now become epic and legendary.
Maybe...but... in Cubs history this 2019 choke is likely just in their top ten. Some have guessed that despite the Cubs' many good early season starts...the entire summers of day games causes a slowing at the end....who knows
here is another....
50 years ago this month....
My junior high teacher back in fall of '69(?) had played a year or two in the minors for the Cubs.
Poor guy....I watched him emotionally crater in September as:
first place Cubs lost 17 of last 25 games (ie 8-17), while ....
second place Mets closed out on 23-7 roll over the final 30.
Remembered as the Amazing Mets in their WS win over a great Orioles team
....for Cubs fans ....well it was just another fall spit of the bit...
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Maybe...but... in Cubs history this 2019 choke is likely just in their top ten. Some have guessed that despite the Cubs' many good early season starts...the entire summers of day games causes a slowing at the end....who knows
here is another....
50 years ago this month....
My junior high teacher back in fall of '69(?) had played a year or two in the minors for the Cubs.
Poor guy....I watched him emotionally crater in September as:
first place Cubs lost 17 of last 25 games (ie 8-17), while ....
second place Mets closed out on 23-7 roll over the final 30.
Remembered as the Amazing Mets in their WS win over a great Orioles team
....for Cubs fans ....well it was just another fall spit of the bit...
I remember the '69 collapse fairly well as my friends and I were Cubs fans up in MKE prior to our getting our own team. We were just in the right age not to be bitter about the Braves departure and the Brewers were not yet in town.
Anyway, while the Cubs collapse over the full month isn't as dramatic as '69 (.400 winning percentage vs. .320 back then), the Crew's playing of .818 ball in September so far is the second hottest month in franchise history surpassed only by April '87 when the famous 13-0 start propelled them out of the gate. By way of comparison, last year's blistering September was played at a .731 pace; top 5(ish) in team history. I'm certainly not predicting anything now but overlook them in the postseason at your own peril.
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(http://media.giphy.com/media/6KeaOjTOV55XW/giphy.gif)
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Maybe...but... in Cubs history this 2019 choke is likely just in their top ten. Some have guessed that despite the Cubs' many good early season starts...the entire summers of day games causes a slowing at the end....who knows
here is another....
50 years ago this month....
My junior high teacher back in fall of '69(?) had played a year or two in the minors for the Cubs.
Poor guy....I watched him emotionally crater in September as:
first place Cubs lost 17 of last 25 games (ie 8-17), while ....
second place Mets closed out on 23-7 roll over the final 30.
Remembered as the Amazing Mets in their WS win over a great Orioles team
....for Cubs fans ....well it was just another fall spit of the bit...
Yes, this franchise has made choking an art, that's for sure. In some ways, winning in 2016 "ruined" things - ha!
I have many, many, many Cubbie fan friends and it's amazing how many of them have such fond memories of the 1969 team. It would be like Red Sox fans saying 2003 or 1978 was their favorite team. But Cubbie fans embrace those chokers from 50 years ago; no wonder the Lovable Losers monicker came to pass.
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Maybe...but... in Cubs history this 2019 choke is likely just in their top ten. Some have guessed that despite the Cubs' many good early season starts...the entire summers of day games causes a slowing at the end....who knows
here is another....
50 years ago this month....
My junior high teacher back in fall of '69(?) had played a year or two in the minors for the Cubs.
Poor guy....I watched him emotionally crater in September as:
first place Cubs lost 17 of last 25 games (ie 8-17), while ....
second place Mets closed out on 23-7 roll over the final 30.
Remembered as the Amazing Mets in their WS win over a great Orioles team
....for Cubs fans ....well it was just another fall spit of the bit...
I agree, this year is probably a top 10 all time gag job, certainly not the Cubbies all time choke but because of this delicious losing streak it has taken on epic status.
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Brewers Cheering Guide (Sep 25):
Before we get started, let's allow Brian Griffin to set the stage for us.
https://www.youtube.com/v/9uUH6o-jdog
Just like childless adults are incapable of understanding the protective anxiety of parenthood, until you're a fan of the Cubs, you are incapable of understanding what it means to be a loser. Sure, us Cheeseheads can cry all we want about what might have been if Rollie Fingers had not been injured in 1982 or if Drake hadn't been allowed to sit courtside last year or if Brandon Bostick would have thrown a block as he was supposed to, but I understood why I could never know the gut-wrenching, heart-ripping pain that Cubs fans feel on a regular basis.
Until last night.
For 24 hours, I was a true blue Cubs fan. Being confined within a decaying mess of spalling concrete and corroding steel actually felt friendly. I was completely desensitized to navigating scores of bandwagon jumpers and homeless people just to see a baseball game. The common depiction of Harry Carrey plastered everywhere around Addison and Clark was no longer a caricature of closet racism. And of course, my heart was stripped of any hope that remained after seven runs in the seventh inning led to seven straight losses at the hands of a team upon which they hung 700 runs last week. Lucky seven, it was not. Though last night may have cured my arithmomania, I don't think I'll ever be able to look at a slot machine again.
As I watched that third out in Pittsburgh playing on the jumbotron in Washington that was on the 110" projector screen in my sunroom, I felt lower than the subgrade underneath rock bottom... that is until I realized, being a Cubs fan was a choice. And so I shed myself of the stench of stale beer and patchouli, and my gray, lifeless heart returned to a bright red as though it was stepping out of Auntie Em's house into Munchkinland. And yet, even as my spirit regained the vigor of life, I couldn't help but to look back over my shoulder at my former Cubbie brethren wallowing in their own personal seventh ring of hell and feel that tiny pin in my soul as a result of my recent acquisition of the true wisdom of knowing just how much it sucks to be a Cubs fan.
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So with that said, let's play would you rather.... a) be a Cubs fan or b) spend 7 hours in cleats blowing a lead in the 9th, blowing a lead in the 13th, and losing in the 19th? Of course, the correct answer, ironically, was popularized by the most famous Cubs fan of all, Monty Brewster: NONE OF THE ABOVE [GO CREW] (emphasis mine).
So no help last night from the Phillies against the Nats, but no immediate worries there since Cleveland and Tampa Bay did indeed walk hand-in-hand as the Crew dispensed the Cincinnati level-2 subdemon colloquially known as Sonny Gray. So keep on keeping on Tribe and Rays (or keep it off... again just keep doing the same thing).
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Interesting Takeaway from Tuesday night's games:
Scherzer pitched last night, and although he wasn't his dominating self, he is now lined up to pitch Sunday on normal rest. And so it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if the Brewers didn't lock up Wild Card "host" before Sunday... even if that means not locking it up at all (or even losing it), because meaningful baseball on Sunday burns the Scherzer card from being played on Tuesday. Regardless, the Brewers need to keep winning, but if the Nat's do as well - at least for a couple days - so be it. Candidly, best case - if you're hoping to avoid Scherzer on Tuesday - is for Brewers & Nationals (as well as Cleveland & Tampa Bay) to go into Sunday all-square. While careful what you wish for Brewer fans, because the consolation prize is Strasburg on regular (or Anibal on long) rest; however, if earlier season matchups mean anything, you absolutely take either of those over Scherzer any day of the week (especially Tuesdays). That said, don't be surprised if Scherzer only is pulled early on Sunday, or even throws a few innings on short rest Saturday, thus making him available on Tuesday, if needed. Of course, if the Nats look ahead, they'll realize that using Scherzer on Tuesday essentially means they can only use him once (Game 3) in a 5-game series against the Dodgers... so let's hope that Martinez (privately) also does not subscribe to the idiocy of not looking beyond the game in front of you.
Of course, all this becomes moot if the Snakes can perhaps hand another loss to the Cards today.... although that means I may have to make a choice to become a Cubs fan again come Friday, yay.
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Last but not least, welcome to the Brewer Neighborhood Watch Party, Oakland. Do what you're doing (lose), but not too much. Whatever you do, just keep Cleveland honest for us.
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Makes me feel bad whomever gets the short straw in the AL. Potential for a 95+ win team to be left out.
The AL Wildcard race is fantastic. Five days left, and one game separates three teams seeking two spots.
Should be interesting. I really hope the Indians get one of those spots. Getting Ramirez back last night (with 2HR/7RBI in his return game) was a nice boost.
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Cleveland has three with the Nationals, who clinched last night. I hope that helps the Crew grab homefield for the WC game.
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Red Sox left Eduardo Rodriguez in yesterday when he just didn't have it to allow 7 runs in 5 innings (He had a ERA of 1 over his previous 7 starts and 2.20 over his previous 15) so he could get his 19th win with a shot at 20 Sunday at home against the Orioles. They are out of contention and took a chance on losing (they ended up holding on 12-10, so he got his win) to help a guy go for a statistical milestone. Reminds me of the old days when they would sit a guy to keep a .300 average or move him up in the lineup to get a shot at 40 HRs or 100 Rs or 100 RBIs or something. I actually liked it. What do you guys think?
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Brewers run differential is finally at 0!
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The AL Wildcard race is fantastic. Five days left, and one game separates three teams seeking two spots.
Should be interesting. I really hope the Indians get one of those spots. Getting Ramirez back last night (with 2HR/7RBI in his return game) was a nice boost.
Great race, and three fun teams too. Kind of too bad one of them has to miss out.
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Red Sox left Eduardo Rodriguez in yesterday when he just didn't have it to allow 7 runs in 5 innings (He had a ERA of 1 over his previous 7 starts and 2.20 over his previous 15) so he could get his 19th win with a shot at 20 Sunday at home against the Orioles. They are out of contention and took a chance on losing (they ended up holding on 12-10, so he got his win) to help a guy go for a statistical milestone. Reminds me of the old days when they would sit a guy to keep a .300 average or move him up in the lineup to get a shot at 40 HRs or 100 Rs or 100 RBIs or something. I actually liked it. What do you guys think?
In this case, I like it. Gives Red Sox and baseball fans in general a reason to follow his last start against Baltimore on Sunday, a contest that would otherwise be meaningless.
Not a fan of guys sitting out to protect their batting averages, though, especially when it involves a batting title. It’s a weak move and deprives the fans who paid for tickets a chance to see a good player.
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(http://media.tenor.com/images/55708257b80c8c6fabe9d2e445144733/tenor.gif)
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Keeping a guy in the game after throwing 110+ pitches, and giving up seven earned runs, just so he can reach the magic 5 inning mark pretty much shows what a useless stat "wins" are.
But it's all in good fun, and there is no harm done, so go for it!
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Back in 1988, the Twins had a pitcher named Allan Anderson. He won the AL ERA title by a fraction over the Brewers' Eddie Higuera, and he did so by sitting out his last start to protect his stats.
In private, Tom Kelly told people it was a sign of mental weakness, and a few players said the same. Anderson had another good (but not as good) season in 1989 but followed that with two bad seasons and never pitched again in the major leagues.
But I guess he'll always be able to tell his kids and grandkids that he once won the ERA title over a darn good field -- the next 4 were Higuera, Frank Viola, Mark Gubicza and Roger Clemens. Dave Stieb and Dave Stewart were also in the top 10 that season.
Viola went 24-7 with a 2.64 ERA and won the Cy Young Award. The Twins actually had a much better regular season that season than they did the year before (when they won a weak AL West and went on to win their first championship) but they finished behind the powerhouse A's -- who were starting their steroid-fueled run of success.
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Back in 1988, the Twins had a pitcher named Allan Anderson. He won the AL ERA title by a fraction over the Brewers' Eddie Higuera, and he did so by sitting out his last start to protect his stats.
In private, Tom Kelly told people it was a sign of mental weakness, and a few players said the same. Anderson had another good (but not as good) season in 1989 but followed that with two bad seasons and never pitched again in the major leagues.
But I guess he'll always be able to tell his kids and grandkids that he once won the ERA title over a darn good field -- the next 4 were Higuera, Frank Viola, Mark Gubicza and Roger Clemens. Dave Stieb and Dave Stewart were also in the top 10 that season.
Viola went 24-7 with a 2.64 ERA and won the Cy Young Award. The Twins actually had a much better regular season that season than they did the year before (when they won a weak AL West and went on to win their first championship) but they finished behind the powerhouse A's -- who were starting their steroid-fueled run of success.
Even more interesting, on either side of that ERA title, the Twins won a World Series with him on the roster, and he didn't pitch in the playoffs during either run. Truly a strange one season wonder
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Back in 1988, the Twins had a pitcher named Allan Anderson. He won the AL ERA title by a fraction over the Brewers' Eddie Higuera, and he did so by sitting out his last start to protect his stats.
I moved to So. St. Paul for a job right before the '87 playoffs. I recall trying to pay with my credit card for a new muffler @ Car-X the day playoff tickets went on sale. It took over an hour for them to run my card because of all the playoff sales jamming the CC approvals. Wish I could have paid with cash vs. CC that day!
I also remember the Corvette convertibles catching fire during the Twins ticker tape parade lol.
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Cards lose again! 'Hey Chicago whadda say? The Cubs are going to win today. Go Cubs Go!' (all weekend ;D)
#Crew
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Time for the Cubs to do their jobs.
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Time for the Cubs to do their jobs.
Feel a 3 game winning streak coming up for the cubbies.
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For those interested, top 5th inning of Sox game, tune in if you want to see my fat face on tv.
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#playoffs #Crew :)
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For those interested, top 5th inning of Sox game, tune in if you want to see my fat face on tv.
What face do we get to see if we tune in the top of the 8th?
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Didn't think I'd get to use this for the Brewers this year
(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OGC.592594ea3afa171c3c37abc9044fd6f3&pid=Api&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia.giphy.com%2fmedia%2fvv41HlvfogHAY%2fgiphy.gif&ehk=ZI40XwgmoK7g9pFNRxFNUw)
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Didn't think I'd get to use this for the Brewers this year
(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OGC.592594ea3afa171c3c37abc9044fd6f3&pid=Api&rurl=https%3a%2f%2fmedia.giphy.com%2fmedia%2fvv41HlvfogHAY%2fgiphy.gif&ehk=ZI40XwgmoK7g9pFNRxFNUw)
Me either. A very very .500 team loses their MVP candidate and then rattles off 17 wins in 19 games? Wow.
C'mon Cubs, time to wakie, wakie now.
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Me either. A very very .500 team loses their MVP candidate and then rattles off 17 wins in 19 games? Wow.
That clinches it: Yelich is the NL LVP!
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What face do we get to see if we tune in the top of the 8th?
I ended up getting to call a home run on a major league broadcast, that was pretty cool!
I told Benetti after the game, his job appears safe.
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Time for the Cubs to do their jobs.
Yeah.....
They’ve shown a lot of heart the last week or so.
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Time for the Cubs to do their jobs.
Cubbies' response: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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(http://media1.giphy.com/media/37nUNRJ0KTlg1a0Fqi/giphy.gif)
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(http://media2.giphy.com/media/gLiXpxjETyiEA1YCCK/giphy.gif)
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I love how the Reds' two-bit pitcher plunked Braun the next AB after his grand slam. So predictable and dumb.
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I love how the Reds' two-bit pitcher plunked Braun the next AB after his grand slam. So predictable and dumb.
TGFIB(tm) would approve of this action.
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Brewers Cheering Guide (Sep 26)
I've been a Cubs fan on-and-off for nearly 72 hours now. By that fact alone, not only have I satisfied the only threshold there is for being a true, blue-blooded Cubs fan, I've also been a Cubs fan for 72 hours now! But as I sort through my PM's, it's clear that my Cubs fan brethren really aren't too fond me right now, most accusing me of appropriating their fandom for my convenience. I must say that this week has really been enlightening to me now that I've essentially become the Rachel Dolezal of Cubs nation. So to all of you Cubs-fans-from-birth, even if you don't want to believe that I truly feel like a Cubs fan on the inside, I hope you'll accept my olive branch, which - appropriately - I present to Cubs nation in goat form:
Back on Sept 16th, the Cubs were in solid shape behind Washington for the second Wild Card slot and had 7 games remaining against Division leader St. Louis. Destiny was in their hands. Unfortunately, something happened on Sept 17th that could jeopardize even fate written by the Almighty.
http://events.depaul.edu/event/depaul_night_at_the_chicago_cubs#.XYzrhkZKi70
Frankly, if there's something that Brewers, Cards and Cubs fans can all agree upon, it's that in a pennant race, you stay as far away from DePaul as you possibly can. I understand the proximity challenge is very difficult for the Cubs to overcome, but human ingenuity built a wall in Berlin, we could sure as hell build one around Lake View.
So despite the efforts of Maddon, Theo, TR, and the players; rest assured, Cubs nation, that in the very end, it was likely some intern on the Cubs' promotion staff responsible for putting the season into the tank.
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Let's not get too worried about the Tribe, folks. Last night's loss hurt, but - like the Brewers - they're only one behind in the loss column as of this morning... which will make them even hungrier tomorrow especially if they can rattle off a W today. As far as Oakland and Tampa Bay, it would be nice if they would drop a game or two between now and Saturday morning, but at least we know that Cleveland is going to give Washington an honest go of things tomorrow night.
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Even if you believe in the motivation of revenge or consolation prizes or you're a fan of reversion to the mean, you have to think the Cubs will pull something out of the hat over the last three games. But let me ask you this, Brewer fans... would you rather face the Dodgers in a 5-game series or a 7-game series? If the goal is the World Series, might not the Wild Card be the easier path (at least once you get past that 1-game pitfall)?
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Brewers Cheering Guide (Sep 26)
I've been a Cubs fan on-and-off for nearly 72 hours now. By that fact alone, not only have I satisfied the only threshold there is for being a true, blue-blooded Cubs fan, I've also been a Cubs fan for 72 hours now! But as I sort through my PM's, it's clear that my Cubs fan brethren really aren't too fond me right now, most accusing me of appropriating their fandom for my convenience. I must say that this week has really been enlightening to me now that I've essentially become the Rachel Dolezal of Cubs nation. So to all of you Cubs-fans-from-birth, even if you don't want to believe that I truly feel like a Cubs fan on the inside, I hope you'll accept my olive branch, which - appropriately - I present to Cubs nation in goat form:
Back on Sept 16th, the Cubs were in solid shape behind Washington for the second Wild Card slot and had 7 games remaining against Division leader St. Louis. Destiny was in their hands. Unfortunately, something happened on Sept 17th that could jeopardize even fate written by the Almighty.
http://events.depaul.edu/event/depaul_night_at_the_chicago_cubs#.XYzrhkZKi70
Frankly, if there's something that Brewers, Cards and Cubs fans can all agree upon, it's that in a pennant race, you stay as far away from DePaul as you possibly can. I understand the proximity challenge is very difficult for the Cubs to overcome, but human ingenuity built a wall in Berlin, we could sure as hell build one around Lake View.
So despite the efforts of Maddon, Theo, TR, and the players; rest assured, Cubs nation, that in the very end, it was likely some intern on the Cubs' promotion staff responsible for putting the season into the tank.
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Let's not get too worried about the Tribe, folks. Last night's loss hurt, but - like the Brewers - they're only one behind in the loss column as of this morning... which will make them even hungrier tomorrow especially if they can rattle off a W today. As far as Oakland and Tampa Bay, it would be nice if they would drop a game or two between now and Saturday morning, but at least we know that Cleveland is going to give Washington an honest go of things tomorrow night.
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Even if you believe in the motivation of revenge or consolation prizes or you're a fan of reversion to the mean, you have to think the Cubs will pull something out of the hat over the last three games. But let me ask you this, Brewer fans... would you rather face the Dodgers in a 5-game series or a 7-game series? If the goal is the World Series, might not the Wild Card be the easier path (at least once you get past that 1-game pitfall)?
The Brewers should charter a bus from DePaul campus(es) to St Louis this weekend
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I love how the Reds' two-bit pitcher plunked Braun the next AB after his grand slam. So predictable and dumb.
There is nothing more gutless than throwing at a batter just because you can't get him out.
Someday, one of these idiotic headhunting missions is going to result in death or serious injury.
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Brewers Players Showering Themselves In Beer Unaware They Clinched Playoff Spot
https://sports.theonion.com/brewers-players-showering-themselves-in-beer-unaware-th-1838488609?utm_source=TheOnion_Daily_RSS&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=&utm_term=
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One game back!
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No Yelich, no Braun, no Cain, no Moustakis, No Thames.
No problem!
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No Yelich, no Braun, no Cain, no Moustakis, No Thames.
No problem!
Crew don't need no stinkin' players!
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Brother Benny, if you think your Cub fan friends aren’t fond of you, try being Scoop’s Official Cardinal Fan
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From Yahoo:
Cubs manager Joe Maddon went out of his way to profanely denounce any future complaints from the Brewers about the situation.
From the Chicago Tribune:
“I will put out the appropriate guys to play based on what’s good for our people, not for their people,” said Maddon, who already has ruled out All-Stars Kris Bryant and Javier Baez because of injuries.
“We’ll put a good team out there, regardless. Now, of course, (the Brewers are) going to b----. Of course they are. I get it. Quite frankly, there are certain things I don’t give a s--- about.
“That would be one of them.”
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From Yahoo:
Cubs manager Joe Maddon went out of his way to profanely denounce any future complaints from the Brewers about the situation.
From the Chicago Tribune:
“I will put out the appropriate guys to play based on what’s good for our people, not for their people,” said Maddon, who already has ruled out All-Stars Kris Bryant and Javier Baez because of injuries.
“We’ll put a good team out there, regardless. Now, of course, (the Brewers are) going to b----. Of course they are. I get it. Quite frankly, there are certain things I don’t give a s--- about.
“That would be one of them.”
Joe’s big mad.
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From Yahoo:
Cubs manager Joe Maddon went out of his way to profanely denounce any future complaints from the Brewers about the situation.
From the Chicago Tribune:
“I will put out the appropriate guys to play based on what’s good for our people, not for their people,” said Maddon, who already has ruled out All-Stars Kris Bryant and Javier Baez because of injuries.
“We’ll put a good team out there, regardless. Now, of course, (the Brewers are) going to b----. Of course they are. I get it. Quite frankly, there are certain things I don’t give a s--- about.
“That would be one of them.”
Ah the tears. So so bitter.
I mean he can put whatever lineup he wants out there. Hasn’t made much of a difference the last month anyway.
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Ah the tears. So so bitter.
I mean he can put whatever lineup he wants out there. Hasn’t made much of a difference the last month anyway.
Yup. They’ve blown 5+ game leads each of the past 2 September’s to the Brewers. He’s done his part to help us out plenty.
#notourrival
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Fook Madden and da horse he road inn on. Adios motherfooker, hey?
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Fook Madden and da horse he road inn on. Adios motherfooker, hey?
Hear hear.
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Fook Madden and da horse he road inn on. Adios motherfooker, hey?
Yep!
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Is there even a single cubbies who hasn’t quit?
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Red Sox left Eduardo Rodriguez in yesterday when he just didn't have it to allow 7 runs in 5 innings (He had a ERA of 1 over his previous 7 starts and 2.20 over his previous 15) so he could get his 19th win with a shot at 20 Sunday at home against the Orioles. They are out of contention and took a chance on losing (they ended up holding on 12-10, so he got his win) to help a guy go for a statistical milestone. Reminds me of the old days when they would sit a guy to keep a .300 average or move him up in the lineup to get a shot at 40 HRs or 100 Rs or 100 RBIs or something. I actually liked it. What do you guys think?
Then this happens.
https://deadspin.com/red-sox-and-rangers-cast-aside-all-dignity-in-battle-ov-1838506027?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&utm_source=deadspin_facebook
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Then this happens.
https://deadspin.com/red-sox-and-rangers-cast-aside-all-dignity-in-battle-ov-1838506027?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&utm_source=deadspin_facebook
Best part is that wasn’t even remotely close to a strike.
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Joe who?
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Is there even a single cubbies who hasn’t quit?
Bunch of gutless wonders and the team quit too 8-)
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Who's collapse was worse, the Cubs or Marquette?
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Bunch of gutless wonders and the team quit too 8-)
More of died then quit....
Rizzos ankle the day he came back to the lineup
(http://www.bleachernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Screen-Shot-2019-09-26-at-12.53.27-PM.jpg)
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NM. Scherzer was announced for Tuesday.
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Fook Madden and da horse he road inn on. Adios motherfooker, hey?
save da horse, ride a cu-boy
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Just the messenger here from the west coast. I think i have made it known I despise the Dodgers. Cheer Ed wildly for the Brewers or any team that takes them out. My Halos went 4-0 against the Dodgers this year, it sure why no one else can figure them out. :)
At any rate, the sports intelligentsia here is arguing the Brewers tore it up with Yellich hurt down the stretch, further showing his value is not that great. I laughed, but figured I would share. Brewers schedule down the stretch also quite easy, which helped in achieving that record.
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Brewers play any of their regulars last night?
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I'm rooting for the Brewers in the NL, and either the A's or Twins in the AL.
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Anybody but the Doyers
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Anybody but the Doyers
I'm sick of watching LAD.
Ditto for HOU.
I've never liked ATL, including the 90's teams that kept losing to the American League.
Tampa Bay doesn't deserve nice things.
I hate the St. Louis Cardinals with every fiber of my being.
I don't mind NYY, and it would also be interesting to see how dominant WSH's pitching could be.
But, the best stories, in my opinion, are Milwaukee facing either the A's or Twins.
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I hate the St. Louis Cardinals with every fiber of my being.
You don't know what you are missing. This is a good franchise and the team made great strides this year!
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This happens more often than people realize:
Cubbies, who choked away the season, relax when games get meaningless and take a good team behind the woodshed.
For example, Ian Happ batted .164 with a .530 OPS from 8/18 to 9/20. Batting .450 with a 1.526 OPS since Cubbies peed down their legs. Cardinals can't get him out.
Can Crew take advantage? They're having their own problems in Colorado.
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Can Crew take advantage? They're having their own problems in Colorado.
If they could win tonight and tie-up the division it would make for a helluva awesome finish on Sunday.
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And Lo Cain catches da ball, hey?
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This happens more often than people realize:
Cubbies, who choked away the season, relax when games get meaningless and take a good team behind the woodshed.
For example, Ian Happ batted .164 with a .530 OPS from 8/18 to 9/20. Batting .450 with a 1.526 OPS since Cubbies peed down their legs. Cardinals can't get him out.
Can Crew take advantage? They're having their own problems in Colorado.
Helps to have consistent playing time too.
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Oooffff...
One out away.
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This happens more often than people realize:
Cubbies, who choked away the season, relax when games get meaningless and take a good team behind the woodshed.
For example, Ian Happ batted .164 with a .530 OPS from 8/18 to 9/20. Batting .450 with a 1.526 OPS since Cubbies peed down their legs. Cardinals can't get him out.
Can Crew take advantage? They're having their own problems in Colorado.
This happens more then people realize: Teams with the best run differential in the division, tend to progress to the mean. So when they lose 5 one run games in a row, it eventually turns the other way and they win.
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This happens more then people realize: Teams with the best run differential in the division, tend to progress to the mean. So when they lose 5 one run games in a row, it eventually turns the other way and they win.
Sure.
Also easier to swing the bat when you're not grinding it into sawdust, and easier to pitch the ball when it doesn't matter one whit whether you win or lose.
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Sure.
Also easier to swing the bat when you're not grinding it into sawdust, and easier to pitch the ball when it doesn't matter one whit whether you win or lose.
Curious if you watched any of the Cubs Cards series last weekend?
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Curious if you watched any of the Cubs Cards series last weekend?
Only a few innings live. Saw the highlights each night, read articles/columns, looked at the box scores, talked to my son who watched them all.
Of course, the choke job started way before that.
On Aug. 8, Cubs were 63-52 and led Mil by 3.5 and StL by 4. In less than a month, they had fallen well out of first place ... but after beating Milwaukee in the opener of a 4-game series on Sept. 5, they were 76-63 and FIVE games ahead of the Brewers with 23 games to play.
They then lost the next 3 games to the Brewers, saving Milwaukee's season and starting their own official death spiral.
At first, it was a slo-mo spiral, as they were helped by getting to play the Pirates in the midst of their doldrums to stay ahead of the Brewers. On Sept. 16, they were still clinging to a 1-game lead for the wild-card spot. They then lost 2 at home to the Reds, all 4 at home to the Cardinals and 3 to a Pittsburgh team that had started mailing it in months ago.
So they went from a 5-game lead over the Brewers on Sept. 5 to a 7-game deficit to the Brewers in a matter of 21 days. This despite the Brewers having to play without the league MVP.
That's impressive choking even by Cubbian standards!
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Only a few innings live. Saw the highlights each night, read articles/columns, looked at the box scores, talked to my son who watched them all.
Of course, the choke job started way before that.
On Aug. 8, Cubs were 63-52 and led Mil by 3.5 and StL by 4. In less than a month, they had fallen well out of first place ... but after beating Milwaukee in the opener of a 4-game series on Sept. 5, they were 76-63 and FIVE games ahead of the Brewers with 23 games to play.
They then lost the next 3 games to the Brewers, saving Milwaukee's season and starting their own official death spiral.
At first, it was a slo-mo spiral, as they were helped by getting to play the Pirates in the midst of their doldrums to stay ahead of the Brewers. On Sept. 16, they were still clinging to a 1-game lead for the wild-card spot. They then lost 2 at home to the Reds, all 4 at home to the Cardinals and 3 to a Pittsburgh team that had started mailing it in months ago.
So they went from a 5-game lead over the Brewers on Sept. 5 to a 7-game deficit to the Brewers in a matter of 21 days. This despite the Brewers having to play without the league MVP.
That's impressive choking even by Cubbian standards!
Davidsonesque
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Davidsonesque
More Jean Felixesque.
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erasing a 7 1/2 game lead since september 5th or something(20-6) is a wow factor in and of itself. kind of like the gotta believe mets of '69 who went from being 10 games down as of august to going 38-11 the rest of the way. brewers have to win and cards lose to force a one game divisional playoff in st louis. loser goes to washington for another one game series. winner goes to atlanta
probably without cain as he looks a little bruised up and yellich of course. what the hell happened to jeremy jeffress and travis shaw??
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Should Joe start his injured regulars today, or will the Brewers choke up another hairball? For all the talk here still about the Cubs choking, they have done their job handing the Brewers the division, but the Crew has been too preoccupied with Dr. Heimlich.
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Should Joe start his injured regulars today, or will the Brewers choke up another hairball? For all the talk here still about the Cubs choking, they have done their job handing the Brewers the division, but the Crew has been too preoccupied with Dr. Heimlich.
I’ll take 21-6 in September over whatever the Cubs went that’s for sure.
And 8-2 over their last 10 games over the 2-8 the Cubs are.
Would’ve been nice to close out the season on a 10 game winning streak. Hard to expect that though.
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Only a few innings live. Saw the highlights each night, read articles/columns, looked at the box scores, talked to my son who watched them all.
Of course, the choke job started way before that.
On Aug. 8, Cubs were 63-52 and led Mil by 3.5 and StL by 4. In less than a month, they had fallen well out of first place ... but after beating Milwaukee in the opener of a 4-game series on Sept. 5, they were 76-63 and FIVE games ahead of the Brewers with 23 games to play.
They then lost the next 3 games to the Brewers, saving Milwaukee's season and starting their own official death spiral.
At first, it was a slo-mo spiral, as they were helped by getting to play the Pirates in the midst of their doldrums to stay ahead of the Brewers. On Sept. 16, they were still clinging to a 1-game lead for the wild-card spot. They then lost 2 at home to the Reds, all 4 at home to the Cardinals and 3 to a Pittsburgh team that had started mailing it in months ago.
So they went from a 5-game lead over the Brewers on Sept. 5 to a 7-game deficit to the Brewers in a matter of 21 days. This despite the Brewers having to play without the league MVP.
That's impressive choking even by Cubbian standards!
This opinion would be more convincing had the Cubs not lost >40% of their offensive output and essentially their entire starting infield due to injuries in September
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This opinion would be more convincing had the Cubs not lost >40% of their offensive output and essentially their entire starting infield due to injuries in September
Brewers fans feel so bad for you and are glad they cannot relate.
Oh wait...
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Maddon gone.
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Let’s hope the cubbies can win one more for their skipper. So long Maddon
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Should Joe start his injured regulars today, or will the Brewers choke up another hairball? For all the talk here still about the Cubs choking, they have done their job handing the Brewers the division, but the Crew has been too preoccupied with Dr. Heimlich.
Were any Brewer fans that upset with what the Cubs were doing? I think the only upset Brewer fans I saw were about Maddon’s comments. Which I agree were out of line, but I haven’t seen how the question was phrased to him.
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Brewers fans feel so bad for you and are glad they cannot relate.
Oh wait...
Not speaking on behalf of the Cubs nor their fans, so no sympathy needed from Brewer fans.
I'm sure Cubs fans can relate to what happened to the Blew Crew last night.
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Maddon gone.
Go west, old man
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We did our part to help Brewer fans.
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We did our part to help Brewer fans.
Thank you for your service.
Way to win 2 of 7 games against the Cards in your last 10 games. Your play really gave the Brewers a chance at a division title. I only wish the Brewers would’ve played good ball in those last 10 games and they might’ve caught the Cards.
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Maddon gone.
Come back home to where you started and spent 31 years...with the Halos. I worked with Joe for two seasons, including when he was interim manager before Scioscia and after Collins....love to have him back. Ausmus is an analytics / zero gut manager. Always by the analytics book. If you are only going to do what the analytics say, why need a manager at all.
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Come back home to where you started and spent 31 years...with the Halos. I worked with Joe for two seasons, including when he was interim manager before Scioscia and after Collins....love to have him back. Ausmus is an analytics / zero gut manager. Always by the analytics book. If you are only going to do what the analytics say, why need a manager at all.
That is awesome.
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That is awesome.
He’s hilarious, enjoyed working with him a lot. Don’t think it will happen, but would add a spark.
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He’s hilarious, enjoyed working with him a lot. Don’t think it will happen, but would add a spark.
As valuable as you were "working with Joe," I'm sure Maddon will hire you as a coach. I'd wish you good luck, hoopy, but I know that as desperate as you are to get out of Cali you wouldn't take the offer.
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This opinion would be more convincing had the Cubs not lost >40% of their offensive output and essentially their entire starting infield due to injuries in September
All right. You win. Cubbies didn't choke at all. They never have. Not in '69 or '84 or '03 or '04 or any of the other times. Just victims of a lot of bad luck.
That is awesome.
Brewers had the opening, gift-wrapped the previous 2 days. They have only themselves to blame.
I'll nonetheless be rooting for them in the playoffs; they seem to be a likable team. Though the Nats, sans Harper, also seem likable.
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All right. You win. Cubbies didn't choke at all. They never have. Not in '69 or '84 or '03 or '04 or any of the other times. Just victims of a lot of bad luck.
Brewers had the opening, gift-wrapped the previous 2 days. They have only themselves to blame.
I'll nonetheless be rooting for them in the playoffs; they seem to be a likable team. Though the Nats, sans Harper, also seem likable.
I’m fine with the Brewers going 21-6 in September. If that’s choking away a division title so be it.
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This happens more then people realize: Teams with the best run differential in the division, tend to progress to the mean. So when they lose 5 one run games in a row, it eventually turns the other way and they win.
This is gold.
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I’m fine with the Brewers going 21-6 in September. If that’s choking away a division title so be it.
I didn't say the Brewers choked away the division, and you know it.
They had a great Sept, and they did a great job of taking advantage of the Cubbie choke.
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Just the messenger here from the west coast. I think i have made it known I despise the Dodgers. Cheer Ed wildly for the Brewers or any team that takes them out. My Halos went 4-0 against the Dodgers this year, it sure why no one else can figure them out. :)
At any rate, the sports intelligentsia here is arguing the Brewers tore it up with Yellich hurt down the stretch, further showing his value is not that great. I laughed, but figured I would share. Brewers schedule down the stretch also quite easy, which helped in achieving that record.
Most Yankees fans ask why didn't we trade for Yellich instead of Stanton?
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As valuable as you were "working with Joe," I'm sure Maddon will hire you as a coach. I'd wish you good luck, hoopy, but I know that as desperate as you are to get out of Cali you wouldn't take the offer.
I didn’t say a word about my value to Joe, but enjoyed my time with him. Hope he can make a return to the org that he started with. And you are correct, I would not accept the offer. Been there, done that and new challenges are ahead outside of this place. Happy to be joining the net migrators out of the state. Less than a year now.
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https://twitter.com/MLBONFOX/status/1178427510683422720
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I would not accept the offer. Been there, done that and new challenges are ahead outside of this place.
You've been a coach for an MLB team? Who knew?
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Most Yankees fans ask why didn't we trade for Yellich instead of Stanton?
I'm sure the Brewers would be willing to take a chance and take him off the Yankees hands for a similar package as they gave up to acquire Yelich, so long as the Yankees also agree to pay his salary.
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You've been a coach for an MLB team? Who knew?
Nope, but I am sure you realize with some clubs the manager also has other positions not coaching that he influences and can even have reporting to him based on the setup of the org. That is how it was my first go around. Mike had more than just coaches reporting to him. Mike also had power to influence other hiring decisions throughout the org.
I suspect Joe will get the same.
You are right, you didn’t know and your smartassery now knows.
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Nope, but I am sure you realize with some clubs the manager also has other positions not coaching that he influences and can even have reporting to him based on the setup of the org. That is how it was my first go around. Mike had more than just coaches reporting to him. Mike also had power to influence other hiring decisions throughout the org.
I suspect Joe will get the same.
You are right, you didn’t know and your smartassery now knows.
I'm sure your best friend Mike couldn't have won the 2002 World Series without you. Well done, hoopy.
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I'm sure your best friend Mike couldn't have won the 2002 World Series without you. Well done, hoopy.
Not my best friend. Never made the claim. Organizations “win” with many many people doing their jobs well, from the most prominent to the under the radar folks.
You seem very angry of late. Prayer is a good option, give it a try.
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Not my best friend. Never made the claim. Organizations “win” with many many people doing their jobs well, from the most prominent to the under the radar folks.
You seem very angry of late. Prayer is a good option, give it a try.
I am the happiest person I know. Maybe a little frustrated at times dealing with a pathological liar who thinks he is an expert on everything, but I can deal with it.
I won't resort to prayer, though, as I have seen how well that has worked for those who kill in the name of their make-believe gods.
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I am the happiest person I know. Maybe a little frustrated at times dealing with a pathological liar who thinks he is an expert on everything, but I can deal with it.
I won't resort to prayer, though, as I have seen how well that has worked for those who kill in the name of their make-believe gods.
LOL. I don’t think you understand the meaning of the big word you tried to use. There is also some psychology out there that people are frustrated or angry at others who mirror themselves. Enjoy that one.
Incidentally, people have killed in the name of peace, as well. It is a complicated world, always has been and always will be.
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I am the happiest person I know. Maybe a little frustrated at times dealing with a pathological liar who thinks he is an expert on everything, but I can deal with it.
I won't resort to prayer, though, as I have seen how well that has worked for those who kill in the name of their make-believe gods.
This is the most baseball post of baseball posts.
Will the two of you remove yourselves before you get a 2nd baseball thread locked because of your child like bickering?
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Hey everyone look at me! I'm a dumbass trying to get another MLB thread locked!
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Only a few innings live. Saw the highlights each night, read articles/columns, looked at the box scores, talked to my son who watched them all.
Of course, the choke job started way before that.
On Aug. 8, Cubs were 63-52 and led Mil by 3.5 and StL by 4. In less than a month, they had fallen well out of first place ... but after beating Milwaukee in the opener of a 4-game series on Sept. 5, they were 76-63 and FIVE games ahead of the Brewers with 23 games to play.
They then lost the next 3 games to the Brewers, saving Milwaukee's season and starting their own official death spiral.
At first, it was a slo-mo spiral, as they were helped by getting to play the Pirates in the midst of their doldrums to stay ahead of the Brewers. On Sept. 16, they were still clinging to a 1-game lead for the wild-card spot. They then lost 2 at home to the Reds, all 4 at home to the Cardinals and 3 to a Pittsburgh team that had started mailing it in months ago.
So they went from a 5-game lead over the Brewers on Sept. 5 to a 7-game deficit to the Brewers in a matter of 21 days. This despite the Brewers having to play without the league MVP.
That's impressive choking even by Cubbian standards!
From August 8, the Cubs would have had to gone 29-18 to win the Division, which only the Dodgers, Yankees, Twins and Astros were able to do for the entire season. On September 5th, they would have had to have gone 14-9 to finish ahead of the Brewers, which only the Dodgers, Yankees and Astros were able to do for the entire season. Basically, the Cubs would have had to play like a 100 win team (which they were not) over those two periods to make the playoffs. If they had played their Pythagorean season rate for those two time periods, 26-21 to go 89-73 (tie the Brewers!) from August 8 and 13-10 to go 89-73 from September 5 (tie the Brewers!). Either way, you tip your cap to the Brewers and Cards for playing well in August/ September.
The choking thing is probably the laziest narrative in all of sports. In September, the Cubs featured 6 regular starters who played in the most intense Game 7 of the World Series in recent history (not Castellanos or Horner). They also started 4 pitchers with World Series experience, including their worst starter who was the World Series MVP. Their best starter during this time period was a guy who was known for "choking" during the 2017 World Series. Their "worst" loss in that stretch, the Saturday Cardinals game, they came back from a deficit 3 different times to take the lead. And their closer was just in the World Series last year. It didn't happen this year, but the take that the guys "peed down their leg" is just untrue. In a game where your offense is limited to the amount of opportunities it gets to score, stuff like this happens.
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LOL. I don’t think you understand the meaning of the big word you tried to use. There is also some psychology out there that people are frustrated or angry at others who mirror themselves. Enjoy that one.
Incidentally, people have killed in the name of peace, as well. It is a complicated world, always has been and always will be.
Still waiting for the new, improved hoopaloop who begged for Scoop forgiveness and vowed to change.
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From August 8, the Cubs would have had to gone 29-18 to win the Division, which only the Dodgers, Yankees, Twins and Astros were able to do for the entire season. On September 5th, they would have had to have gone 14-9 to finish ahead of the Brewers, which only the Dodgers, Yankees and Astros were able to do for the entire season. Basically, the Cubs would have had to play like a 100 win team (which they were not) over those two periods to make the playoffs. If they had played their Pythagorean season rate for those two time periods, 26-21 to go 89-73 (tie the Brewers!) from August 8 and 13-10 to go 89-73 from September 5 (tie the Brewers!). Either way, you tip your cap to the Brewers and Cards for playing well in August/ September.
The choking thing is probably the laziest narrative in all of sports. In September, the Cubs featured 6 regular starters who played in the most intense Game 7 of the World Series in recent history (not Castellanos or Horner). They also started 4 pitchers with World Series experience, including their worst starter who was the World Series MVP. Their best starter during this time period was a guy who was known for "choking" during the 2017 World Series. Their "worst" loss in that stretch, the Saturday Cardinals game, they came back from a deficit 3 different times to take the lead. And their closer was just in the World Series last year. It didn't happen this year, but the take that the guys "peed down their leg" is just untrue. In a game where your offense is limited to the amount of opportunities it gets to score, stuff like this happens.
The Cubs had opportunities to both improve their own win total and to knock down their rivals' win totals by just doing better in their games against the Brewers and the Cardinals. For example, if the $45 million reliever didn't serve up meatballs in back-to-back games, maybe it would have changed some of the narrative ... or maybe not. We'll never know.
Otherwise, MUDPT, you make many excellent points. I also do not like lazy narratives, and perhaps in this case I'm guilty as charged.
Other teams, especially the Brewers, were able to overcome some adversity to prevail, while this time the Cubs were not. You are right: That's sports, and that happens. The Cubbies certainly had a nice multi-year run before that, and if I were a fan of the team I'd be pretty damn grateful for it.
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LOL. I don’t think you understand the meaning of the big word you tried to use. There is also some psychology out there that people are frustrated or angry at others who mirror themselves. Enjoy that one.
Incidentally, people have killed in the name of peace, as well. It is a complicated world, always has been and always will be.
Still waiting for the new, improved hoopaloop who begged for Scoop forgiveness and vowed to change.
Kindly remove yourselves from scoop and find some people who actually want to hear this nonsense from the two of you. Maybe start up a youtube channel? IDK, IDC just leave.
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All right. You win. Cubbies didn't choke at all. They never have. Not in '69 or '84 or '03 or '04 or any of the other times. Just victims of a lot of bad luck.
The futility of the Cubs in late 2019 does indeed resemble what happened in the other years you have cited. The decimation of their starting lineup this year however was comparably unprecedented.
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The Cubs had opportunities to both improve their own win total and to knock down their rivals' win totals by just doing better in their games against the Brewers and the Cardinals. For example, if the $45 million reliever didn't serve up meatballs in back-to-back games, maybe it would have changed some of the narrative ... or maybe not. We'll never know.
Otherwise, MUDPT, you make many excellent points. I also do not like lazy narratives, and perhaps in this case I'm guilty as charged.
Other teams, especially the Brewers, were able to overcome some adversity to prevail, while this time the Cubs were not. You are right: That's sports, and that happens. The Cubbies certainly had a nice multi-year run before that, and if I were a fan of the team I'd be pretty damn grateful for it.
That's Ok. You already conceded to me that it wasn't a choke. "Just a lot of bad luck."
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Cheeks and Nads really clowning themselves in this thread. ::)
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From August 8, the Cubs would have had to gone 29-18 to win the Division, which only the Dodgers, Yankees, Twins and Astros were able to do for the entire season. On September 5th, they would have had to have gone 14-9 to finish ahead of the Brewers, which only the Dodgers, Yankees and Astros were able to do for the entire season. Basically, the Cubs would have had to play like a 100 win team (which they were not) over those two periods to make the playoffs. If they had played their Pythagorean season rate for those two time periods, 26-21 to go 89-73 (tie the Brewers!) from August 8 and 13-10 to go 89-73 from September 5 (tie the Brewers!). Either way, you tip your cap to the Brewers and Cards for playing well in August/ September.
The choking thing is probably the laziest narrative in all of sports. In September, the Cubs featured 6 regular starters who played in the most intense Game 7 of the World Series in recent history (not Castellanos or Horner). They also started 4 pitchers with World Series experience, including their worst starter who was the World Series MVP. Their best starter during this time period was a guy who was known for "choking" during the 2017 World Series. Their "worst" loss in that stretch, the Saturday Cardinals game, they came back from a deficit 3 different times to take the lead. And their closer was just in the World Series last year. It didn't happen this year, but the take that the guys "peed down their leg" is just untrue. In a game where your offense is limited to the amount of opportunities it gets to score, stuff like this happens.
I assume you refer to Darvish against Astros in 2017 series.
Astros smiled and would not admit to announcers in the postgame, but it was said Carlos Beltran alerted his fellow astros to the way Darvish was tipping his pitches....this was never proven or admitted, but Astros hit him around quite well... tipping ones pitches is not really choking....just a poor pitching habit
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I assume you refer to Darvish against Astros in 2017 series.
Astros smiled and would not admit to announcers in the postgame, but it was said Carlos Beltran alerted his fellow astros to the way Darvish was tipping his pitches....this was never proven or admitted, but Astros hit him around quite well... tipping ones pitches is not really choking....just a poor pitching habit
Darvish was a 4x All Star at that point, was in Cy Young discussions a few years prior, after a very accomplished career in Japan. Tipping pitches is inexperienced/sloppy stuff for a pitcher. For someone of Darvish's pedigree to that point, it was absolutely a result of nerves, the magnitude of the stage he was on...and symptomatic of a choke. It would be like a guy like Yelich or Bregman, guys with great eyes and the plate and tremendous discipline, wildly waving at chase pitches and having repeated terrible at bats at key points in the game. Mental errors due to stress and situation than bad habits.
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Darvish was a 4x All Star at that point, was in Cy Young discussions a few years prior, after a very accomplished career in Japan. Tipping pitches is inexperienced/sloppy stuff for a pitcher. For someone of Darvish's pedigree to that point, it was absolutely a result of nerves, the magnitude of the stage he was on...and symptomatic of a choke. It would be like a guy like Yelich or Bregman, guys with great eyes and the plate and tremendous discipline, wildly waving at chase pitches and having repeated terrible at bats at key points in the game. Mental errors due to stress and situation than bad habits.
Wow ...this is an odd way of claiming something could not have happened...but it did...
They waited until the series was over, but then admitted (widely published here in Houston)2017 Astro Carlos Beltran was with Darvish while at Rangers and he alerted his Astro teammates to watch for Darvish's regrip which is absent on his fastball, and which subtly tipped his breaking stuff...against which 'stros hit .556
See:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/12/11/dodgers-yu-darvish-tipped-pitches-world-series-astros
or:
https://www.businessinsider.com/yu-darvish-tipping-pitches-world-series-loss-2017-11
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Did the Cubs choke or did the Cardinals and Brewers play to their potential? That's the beauty of baseball and a 162 game schedule. Over time, your weaknesses are exposed.
St. Louis has an excellent pitching staff and found ways to win. In the second half of the season, the team gelled around young pitching -- notably Flaherty, Hudson and Mikolas. The Cubs, by contrast, relied on a comparatively aged pitching staff that, by September, had worked an awful lot of innings. It would be akin to St. Louis relying on Wainwright or bringing Chris Carpenter back from the retired list.
The Cardinals played a lot like the Dodgers of the mid-1960s. A couple of runs and some good pitching!
The Cubs were a good ball club with notable pitching weaknesses. Those weaknesses sooner or later are going to cost you, as they did in the Cardinal series. There just wasn't a stopper in the bullpen. Period. It's not choking if you don't have what you need.
Milwaukee just played gutsy baseball down the stretch. You have to tip your hat to them because they squeezed everything out of what they had. When Yelich went down, I thought they were done. Put a fork in 'em. But Counsell deserves Manager of the Year for what he did with this team.
All in all an entertaining year.
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Wow ...this is an odd way of claiming something could not have happened...but it did...
They waited until the series was over, but then admitted (widely published here in Houston)2017 Astro Carlos Beltran was with Darvish while at Rangers and he alerted his Astro teammates to watch for Darvish's regrip which is absent on his fastball, and which subtly tipped his breaking stuff...against which 'stros hit .556
See:
https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/12/11/dodgers-yu-darvish-tipped-pitches-world-series-astros
or:
https://www.businessinsider.com/yu-darvish-tipping-pitches-world-series-loss-2017-11
You misunderstood me. I never said he didn’t tip pitches. Stop throwing articles at me. You claim he didn’t choke, rather choose to think the Astros were just so smart and clever they saw something nobody ever else did in 12 years of professional pitching, 6 in MLB. Im saying if he had “poor pitching habits” which lead to him tipping pitches, it wouldn’t have taken till game 7 of a World Series to figure it out, especially not for someone that accomplished and successful. One of his calling cards coming into the league was how his motion was nearly identical for 5-6 pitches.
So clearly something broke down, which lead to him fiddling his glove, or his pre pitch motions, etc... like the moment being too big for him and him not performing...aka choking.
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Did the Cubs choke or did the Cardinals and Brewers play to their potential? That's the beauty of baseball and a 162 game schedule. Over time, your weaknesses are exposed.
St. Louis has an excellent pitching staff and found ways to win. In the second half of the season, the team gelled around young pitching -- notably Flaherty, Hudson and Mikolas. The Cubs, by contrast, relied on a comparatively aged pitching staff that, by September, had worked an awful lot of innings. It would be akin to St. Louis relying on Wainwright or bringing Chris Carpenter back from the retired list.
The Cardinals played a lot like the Dodgers of the mid-1960s. A couple of runs and some good pitching!
The Cubs were a good ball club with notable pitching weaknesses. Those weaknesses sooner or later are going to cost you, as they did in the Cardinal series. There just wasn't a stopper in the bullpen. Period. It's not choking if you don't have what you need.
Milwaukee just played gutsy baseball down the stretch. You have to tip your hat to them because they squeezed everything out of what they had. When Yelich went down, I thought they were done. Put a fork in 'em. But Counsell deserves Manager of the Year for what he did with this team.
All in all an entertaining year.
IDK what's gonna happen tonight but all of Brewer nation ought to be proud of this team and anxious for next year when October inevitably ends. Couns is absolutely fantastic, they have great veteran leadership on the field and some very promising youngsters, and Stearns is a magician who bats .750+ on his wheelings and dealings.
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Tonight's WC game could be a good one. The Nats only have 9 pitchers on their Wild Card Game Roster, and 4 of them are starters. Scherzer is obviously starting, but I would guess the bring in Strasburg and Corbin as #2 and #3.
The Crew may not have a pitcher bat, (maybe Woodruff). But if you get Woodruff for 3 innings, Suter for 2-3, Lyles for 2-3, Pomeranz for 1 and Hader for 1, Milwaukee's looking good.
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You misunderstood me. I never said he didn’t tip pitches. Stop throwing articles at me. You claim he didn’t choke, rather choose to think the Astros were just so smart and clever they saw something nobody ever else did in 12 years of professional pitching, 6 in MLB. Im saying if he had “poor pitching habits” which lead to him tipping pitches, it wouldn’t have taken till game 7 of a World Series to figure it out, especially not for someone that accomplished and successful. One of his calling cards coming into the league was how his motion was nearly identical for 5-6 pitches.
So clearly something broke down, which lead to him fiddling his glove, or his pre pitch motions, etc... like the moment being too big for him and him not performing...aka choking.
Sorry I did misunderstand, and I did think you doubted the tipping occurred. I apologize.Totally my fault and misread
Also...I Wasnt trying to push anything with the articles and Astros surely didnt claim clever or even close . Beltran simply knew of Darvish tipping while both were at Rangers.
I am also fine with you sourcing his tipping to a WS choke ... clearly pressure can surface a recurring bad habit.
The WS was not isolated, ....As one article noted he got nailed by also tipping during a regular season game, too , to wit: ..."Though Darvish is one of the better pitchers in baseball, Wednesday night wasn't his first time giving away too much with his body language. He made a similar mistake over the summer when he was still with the Texas Rangers, pausing slightly before his fastballs during a 22-10 loss to the Miami Marlins. The 31-year-old said he was able to correct the problem after being made aware of it, but as in the World Series, it was too little, too late...."
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An interesting Cubs offseason off to a rough start with the family losing $500 million today. They leveraged like crazy to buy the team and the other assets around Wrigley, be interesting to see if Ameritrade’s plunge hits the baseball organization. I said it before, I expect the Cubs to be on the selling block in the next 5 years, if not sooner.
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Tonight's WC game could be a good one. The Nats only have 9 pitchers on their Wild Card Game Roster, and 4 of them are starters. Scherzer is obviously starting, but I would guess the bring in Strasburg and Corbin as #2 and #3.
The Crew may not have a pitcher bat, (maybe Woodruff). But if you get Woodruff for 3 innings, Suter for 2-3, Lyles for 2-3, Pomeranz for 1 and Hader for 1, Milwaukee's looking good.
Because the Brewers are on the road, it's entirely possible Woody's spot will come up in the 2nd before he pitches. If it does, he'll hit. If not till the 3rd, he might not.
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Because the Brewers are on the road, it's entirely possible Woody's spot will come up in the 2nd before he pitches. If it does, he'll hit. If not till the 3rd, he might not.
Would be pretty surprised if he went more than 2. That’s what he’s been doing since returning. I don’t think they have any interest in Woody getting an AB.
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I think they’ll stretch him tonight. They used those first couple as rehab type starts in preparation for a day like today.
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Yup I was wrong. I did think there was a slight chance he goes up there and just takes pitches if nobody is on. Obviously he came up in a bunt situation so that worked out.
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This is a fun game.
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Hader for 2 innings terrifies me
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Hader for 2 innings terrifies me
Oof
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Unbelievable.
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That was a brutal error.
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The HBP was absolute BS. Why have reviews?
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Rookies have been awful today. Experience matters
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Hader for 2 innings terrifies me
I’ve said that many times.
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Doggone it. Was rootin' for the Crew.
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Hey he didn’t have to pitch 2 innings ai’nna?
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Doggone it. Was rootin' for the Crew.
Can you give us a detailed analysis on how the Crew lost their last four games?
(https://www.catholic.org/files/images/saints/28.jpg)
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Rookies have been awful today. Experience matters
Yeah. Two runs are scoring there. Just make the right decision and go from there.
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All kidding aside, I hate these one game playoffs after 162 games.
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All kidding aside, I hate these one game playoffs after 162 games.
True, but Brewers at home already without it.
That hit by pitch call is going to sting. But Hader wasn’t even close on a lot of pitches.
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Hader for 2 innings terrifies me
Shoulda kept Pomeranz in for one more inning.
Sigh.
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Can you give us a detailed analysis on how the Crew lost their last four games?
(https://www.catholic.org/files/images/saints/28.jpg)
No, but I was thinking about my favorite Gary Gaetti quote when Grisham muffed that play:
"It's hard to field the ball when you have both hands around your throat."
fielder Trent Grisham. 4-3 Nats
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No, but I was thinking about my favorite Gary Gaetti quote when Grisham muffed that play:
"It's hard to field the ball when you have both hands around your throat."
fielder Trent Grisham. 4-3 Nats
Really? Not the HBP that was a foul ball? How about the Zimmerman single? How about Gamel’s flyout in the 9th had the same exit velocity as the Soto single?
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Really? Not the HBP that was a foul ball? How about the Zimmerman single? How about Gamel’s flyout in the 9th had the same exit velocity as the Soto single?
You thought the ball hit the bat first? I thought it hit hand first, or maybe simultaneously. Some people see it differently.
https://twitter.com/zachsilver/status/1179226630943846400
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Blaming Grisham is wrong. The dude was in AA much of the year and not on the 40 man. And he was a key contributor to an awesome September run.
The Crew, and notably Hader, ran out of gas. I had given them a one in three chance to win last night. Personally I'd have given Pom one more inning but I'm not going to second guess Couns.
See you next Spring. They're positioned for long term success.
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If I was to guess, the ball hit the bat first and should have been a foul ball. But I don't think they had enough evidence to overturn. I don't mind it not being overturned. Hader should have never gotten into that position.
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I don't mind the HBP call, even if it hit the bat. That's a bogus deal .. 95 mph ball comes at you and by accident hits a piece of wood before skin? Take your base.
Hader was bad. In a normal game, you let that pitcher try to settle down because he's your guy. In a sudden-death game ...after his 10th crappy pitch you yank him, hope someone else can get an out.
That being said .. there was a tweet last night: Josh Hader faced 66 LH hitters this year. He gave up a single to one of them. He hadn’t allowed 2 singles in the same appearance since May 27.
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You thought the ball hit the bat first? I thought it hit hand first, or maybe simultaneously. Some people see it differently.
https://twitter.com/zachsilver/status/1179226630943846400
Brewers lost the game because Hader couldn't locate pitches, but that absolutely hit the bat first. One if someone takes a 99 mph fastball off the wrist, they are usually writhing in pain. Taylor just ran to first like nothing happened and stayed in the game. And two, the ball jumps up after hitting the bat/wrist and nearly hits him in the face. If it hit his wrist first, there is no way the ball jumps at that velocity and at that direction.
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Brewers lost the game because Hader couldn't locate pitches, but that absolutely hit the bat first. One if someone takes a 99 mph fastball off the wrist, they are usually writhing in pain. Taylor just ran to first like nothing happened and stayed in the game. And two, the ball jumps up after hitting the bat/wrist and nearly hits him in the face. If it hit his wrist first, there is no way the ball jumps at that velocity and at that direction.
Maybe, but I don’t see how anyone can say absolutely or clearly. Look how many people in that twitter link alone see it differently...some say bat, some say hand. Could be some optical illusions going on.
First, I don’t think it hit the wrist, but the fatty tissue at the bottom of the hand. As for the ball jumping up, in my view it was hand, bat, jumps up to face. Not sure any of us have physics degrees to determine how much kinetic energy is absorbed at that moment and where the ball goes...we’re talking about a round ball hitting tissue and a round knob, predicting where it goes is anyone’s guess. I can understand both points of view, but just don’t see how it is clear as a bell with so many people disagreeing.
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You could tell by the vibration of the bat in his hands that the pitch hit the bat first. A Hader fastball to the hand is a broken 5th metacarpal.
Robles had stronger reactions than Taylor did. ;D
But. End of the day, Hader didnt have it, the Brewers were getting some lucky ball strike calls when pitching and the Nats grindes one out. It was a great baseball game to watch.
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Brewers’ fans: It hit the bat first.
Everyone else in America: It hit the wrist first.
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Blaming Grisham is wrong. The dude was in AA much of the year and not on the 40 man. And he was a key contributor to an awesome September run.
The Crew, and notably Hader, ran out of gas. I had given them a one in three chance to win last night. Personally I'd have given Pom one more inning but I'm not going to second guess Couns.
See you next Spring. They're positioned for long term success.
Be careful. I've heard Cub fans talk like this.
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Brewers’ fans: It hit the bat first.
Everyone else in America: It hit the wrist first.
more like:
brewers fans: It hit the bat first.
cubs and cardinals fans: take the blue and gold glasses off it clearly hit only his hand (which is clearly the only alternative given that it wouldn't hit the hand and bounce DOWN into the bat to then bounce UP to hit him in the shoulder). given the sound of the play this clearly isnt what happened.
everyone else in america: it hit the bat first but you certainly cant say theres clear, concise, indisputable video evidence so how it was called, either way, has to stand.
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I don't mind the HBP call, even if it hit the bat. That's a bogus deal .. 95 mph ball comes at you and by accident hits a piece of wood before skin? Take your base.
Hader was bad. In a normal game, you let that pitcher try to settle down because he's your guy. In a sudden-death game ...after his 10th crappy pitch you yank him, hope someone else can get an out.
That being said .. there was a tweet last night: Josh Hader faced 66 LH hitters this year. He gave up a single to one of them. He hadn’t allowed 2 singles in the same appearance since May 27.
This is pretty much how I feel all around. Even if it did hit the bat first, having it called a hbp isn't going to keep me up at night. It'd be like having a stolen base overturned on replay due to an overslide or something. In my messed up brain of equities, he effectively hit him, just like if you beat the throw you're effectively safe.
As for the suggestions that Pomeranz throw another inning, was that a possibility? I know that sounds dumb for a guy that was starting games in July, but he hadn't thrown more than 27 pitches since August 7, and he was at 30 at the end of the 7th. I know its the playoffs, but I wonder if CC didn't think he could be effective past 30.
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Be careful. I've heard Cub fans talk like this.
For the Brewers, "long term success" is different than "we have a dynasty that is going to win multiple World Series titles" like Cubs fans thought in 2016. The Brewers didn't make a single Playoffs in my first 20 years of life. They've been there 4 times in the last 10 years, including each of the last 2. They should be able to compete for a spot in the Playoffs for the next 3 years with Yelich, Hiura, Woodruff, and Hader to build around, so long as Yelich takes his time and gets back to fully healthy. That's not a common injury in baseball so you just never know.
Woodruff has me the most excited. Getting a true ace is the hardest thing for a small market team to do. I think he's on his way to just that.
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Really? Not the HBP that was a foul ball? How about the Zimmerman single? How about Gamel’s flyout in the 9th had the same exit velocity as the Soto single?
Blaming Grisham is wrong. The dude was in AA much of the year and not on the 40 man. And he was a key contributor to an awesome September run.
The Crew, and notably Hader, ran out of gas. I had given them a one in three chance to win last night. Personally I'd have given Pom one more inning but I'm not going to second guess Couns.
See you next Spring. They're positioned for long term success.
I wasn't "blaming" Grisham for anything. I simply thought of the Gaetti quote and it made me chuckle.
There were many, many reasons the Brewers lost the game; Grisham's error was just one of them, and not close the biggest one. Mostly, had Hader been anywhere near his best, the Brewers would have won. And even that: Just as Grisham had helped the Crew get to the playoffs, obviously they don't sniff the WC game without Hader. That doesn't mean he was blameless last night, though.
Gaetti admitted he choked in the 1984 game that produced his quote. After Kerry Wood lost Game 7 against the Marlins in 2003, he said: "I choked. That's the bottom line - I choked." And, to his credit, Grisham admitted that he felt the pressure of the situation last night (though he didn't think the pressure had contributed to the error).
It happens. I wasn't making a statement about the Brewers' season, Grisham's contribution to it, Grisham's character, etc.
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Maybe, but I don’t see how anyone can say absolutely or clearly. Look how many people in that twitter link alone see it differently...some say bat, some say hand. Could be some optical illusions going on.
First, I don’t think it hit the wrist, but the fatty tissue at the bottom of the hand. As for the ball jumping up, in my view it was hand, bat, jumps up to face. Not sure any of us have physics degrees to determine how much kinetic energy is absorbed at that moment and where the ball goes...we’re talking about a round ball hitting tissue and a round knob, predicting where it goes is anyone’s guess. I can understand both points of view, but just don’t see how it is clear as a bell with so many people disagreeing.
everyone on twitter is looking at it on a 6 inch phone screen. If you didn't see it on TV then there's no point debating. You watching it on a normal tv screen with better resolution and size and it unquestionably hit the bat first. You can also hear it when they replayed the audio on tv.
That being said, I'm not surprised they didn't overturn it.
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everyone on twitter is looking at it on a 6 inch phone screen. If you didn't see it on TV then there's no point debating. You watching it on a normal tv screen with better resolution and size and it unquestionably hit the bat first. You can also hear it when they replayed the audio on tv.
That being said, I'm not surprised they didn't overturn it.
I watched on my television and it was hardly unquestionable.
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everyone on twitter is looking at it on a 6 inch phone screen. If you didn't see it on TV then there's no point debating. You watching it on a normal tv screen with better resolution and size and it unquestionably hit the bat first. You can also hear it when they replayed the audio on tv.
That being said, I'm not surprised they didn't overturn it.
Almost 50% of MLB calls are overturned using slow motion, digital replay where you can zoom in and lose resolution. The Live Eye Test isn’t very accurate in these close calls, even amongst trained professionals.
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more like:
brewers fans: It hit the bat first.
cubs and cardinals fans: take the blue and gold glasses off it clearly hit only his hand (which is clearly the only alternative given that it wouldn't hit the hand and bounce DOWN into the bat to then bounce UP to hit him in the shoulder). given the sound of the play this clearly isnt what happened.
everyone else in america: it hit the bat first but you certainly cant say theres clear, concise, indisputable video evidence so how it was called, either way, has to stand.
Yes, it’s an intra-divisional conspiracy to screw Brewers’ fans. We meet once a year in Aspen to chart out our plans with the MLB Umpiring staff to set the world order.
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Bummed with the result, but honestly they way exceeded my expectations.
They gambled that they would hit on Woodruff, Peralta, and Burnes in the rotation, they hit blackjack on one, and busted on the other two. Take 40% of the rotation out of the picture two weeks into April, follow that up with injuries, makeshift starters, and scotch tape and acquisitions and to still even be in the contention in September is more than I could have asked for. With other injuries (Yelich, Braun, Cain), underperformances (general nightmare seasons from Aguilar and Shaw), then stealing the second wild card becomes even more miraculous.
Looking ahead to next year I'm interested to see how the roster shakes out.
I hope Grandal and Milwaukee both exercise the mutual option on his contract for next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he opted out and tried to find a longer-term deal. Similarly, I'd like to see Moustakas back on a short-term deal, because it's hard to roll into a season hoping for a bounceback from Shaw and no other contingency at 3rd.
Pomeranz and Lyles are free agents (I think), but they were both exceptional. I wonder what offers they get on the market. Same with Ray Black, who was hit or miss but can throw the absolute sin out of a baseball. I'd like him back on an incentive-laden deal if he could be had. Gio Gonzalez was a plus, and would be a 35 year old UFA, so who knows if he's back.
I'd love to see Jimmy Nelson back in the rotation and mowing guys down like he was two years ago.
I wonder if Stearns and co. will try to bring in more veteran pitching.
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edited, sorry double post.
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Maybe, but I don’t see how anyone can say absolutely or clearly. Look how many people in that twitter link alone see it differently...some say bat, some say hand. Could be some optical illusions going on.
First, I don’t think it hit the wrist, but the fatty tissue at the bottom of the hand. As for the ball jumping up, in my view it was hand, bat, jumps up to face. Not sure any of us have physics degrees to determine how much kinetic energy is absorbed at that moment and where the ball goes...we’re talking about a round ball hitting tissue and a round knob, predicting where it goes is anyone’s guess. I can understand both points of view, but just don’t see how it is clear as a bell with so many people disagreeing.
That is because you are incapable of changing your mind on anything. To do so would admit defeat.
The rest of us see that sort of thing as personal growth.
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Yes, it’s an intra-divisional conspiracy to screw Brewers’ fans. We meet once a year in Aspen to chart out our plans with the MLB Umpiring staff to set the world order.
You made that call last night?
Do you think they would've overturned the call had they originally called it a foul ball?
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Hader for 2 innings terrifies me
His managing in playoff games is suspect to me.
HBP foul ball play, could not tell. Simultaneous is my best guess. Need to go with play called on field. If they had said foul ball, would not be overturned either. Evidence not conclusive.
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HBP foul ball play, could not tell. Simultaneous is my best guess. Need to go with play called on field. If they had said foul ball, would not be overturned either. Evidence not conclusive.
I agree with this. It was very close and if I had to guess I'd say probably hit bat first, but I have zero certainty.
Sorry to you Brewers fans, that was a gut punch loss. Biggest contributor, IMO, was inability to drum up any offense after the lead off homer in second. We've seen it ton over the years, team gets early lead but does not tack on runs and pays for it in the end.
EDIT: Don't know why I said hand, I meant bat.
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You made that call last night?
Do you think they would've overturned the call had they originally called it a foul ball?
I know you weren't asking me, but I don't think they would have. I think this is one of those cases, that happen in the NBA and NFL, too, in which they stick with the original call barring conclusive evidence to the contrary.
Having said that, as a baseball fan who really didn't have a horse in the race, it sure seemed like it hit the bat first to me.
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You made that call last night?
Do you think they would've overturned the call had they originally called it a foul ball?
This is what it comes down to for me. I don't think they could have changed it either way and had to stick with the original call.
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Yeah, was bummed the HBP/Foul Ball didn't go the other way, but just like Bartman, there were other opportunities to get out of that frame. It's a bummer, but beyond exacerbating the board's weird fascination with needling Chicos and then letting Chicos needle it back, nothing to be gained from dwelling on it at this point.
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You made that call last night?
Do you think they would've overturned the call had they originally called it a foul ball?
Sorry I took me a while to respond as dgies and I are deep in our Aspen redoubt.
First blush, I knew Hader has been wild and overused so I thought he hit him. Replay: It is really close but it clearly hits his hand first in super slow motion zoom...and then slides down the knob. Zapruder approves.
End of the day, the Brewers wilted down the stretch losing their last four after an incredible run. As it turns out, Yeti was missed more for his glove than his bat and Couns had to overuse his closer. The crapshoot had run its course.
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FYI - From Joe Posnanski on the Athletic about the HBP:
Taylor worked to a 3-2 count. Hader’s payoff pitch buzzed way inside and, pinball-machine style, hit various Taylor body parts. The umpire sent Taylor to first base.
This turned out to be a controversial play, one that Brewers fans will undoubtedly gripe about forever, because super-slow-motion replay showed that the ball may have skimmed the bat before it hit Taylor. The umpires went to look at it, couldn’t make a definitive judgment, and the hit-by-pitch stood as called. Of this I have to say two things:
It is possible that the ball hit the bat first. It kind of looked that way from the side angle.
I’m entirely unsympathetic to the argument. On a full count, Hader threw a terrible pitch a foot high and a foot inside. It was, at the very least, ball four, and it was definitively headed for Taylor’s body. The fact that Hader and the Brewers might have gotten lucky and the ball might have ticked Taylor’s bat seems a flimsy argument to me. This cuts to the heart of the problem I have with instant replay; it’s built on technicalities and loopholes rather than the big picture. In the big picture, Hader got exactly what he deserved.
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FYI - From Joe Posnanski on the Athletic about the HBP:
Taylor worked to a 3-2 count. Hader’s payoff pitch buzzed way inside and, pinball-machine style, hit various Taylor body parts. The umpire sent Taylor to first base.
This turned out to be a controversial play, one that Brewers fans will undoubtedly gripe about forever, because super-slow-motion replay showed that the ball may have skimmed the bat before it hit Taylor. The umpires went to look at it, couldn’t make a definitive judgment, and the hit-by-pitch stood as called. Of this I have to say two things:
It is possible that the ball hit the bat first. It kind of looked that way from the side angle.
I’m entirely unsympathetic to the argument. On a full count, Hader threw a terrible pitch a foot high and a foot inside. It was, at the very least, ball four, and it was definitively headed for Taylor’s body. The fact that Hader and the Brewers might have gotten lucky and the ball might have ticked Taylor’s bat seems a flimsy argument to me. This cuts to the heart of the problem I have with instant replay; it’s built on technicalities and loopholes rather than the big picture. In the big picture, Hader got exactly what he deserved.
See this is the kind of stuff I don't like. BY RULE if it hit the bat first, it's a foul ball. That isn't a technicality. That isn't a loophole. That is actually the rule.
I am perfectly comfortable with idea that MLB couldn't make a definitive decision so they stuck with the original call. That is completely defensible. But saying that Hader got what he deserved is a statement without relevance. It doesn't matter what he deserved. It mattered what actually happened. I mean did Hader "get exactly what he deserved" when Zimmerman broke his bat and got a weak ass single to center in the process?
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FYI - From Joe Posnanski on the Athletic about the HBP:
Taylor worked to a 3-2 count. Hader’s payoff pitch buzzed way inside and, pinball-machine style, hit various Taylor body parts. The umpire sent Taylor to first base.
This turned out to be a controversial play, one that Brewers fans will undoubtedly gripe about forever, because super-slow-motion replay showed that the ball may have skimmed the bat before it hit Taylor. The umpires went to look at it, couldn’t make a definitive judgment, and the hit-by-pitch stood as called. Of this I have to say two things:
It is possible that the ball hit the bat first. It kind of looked that way from the side angle.
I’m entirely unsympathetic to the argument. On a full count, Hader threw a terrible pitch a foot high and a foot inside. It was, at the very least, ball four, and it was definitively headed for Taylor’s body. The fact that Hader and the Brewers might have gotten lucky and the ball might have ticked Taylor’s bat seems a flimsy argument to me. This cuts to the heart of the problem I have with instant replay; it’s built on technicalities and loopholes rather than the big picture. In the big picture, Hader got exactly what he deserved.
A bit harsh.
I believe Josh hasn’t given up two singles to lefties since May 23?
He’s not even close to being compensated for what he’s worth, came from a lower middle class upbringing, had a .143 era against lefties, donates his time to camp hometown hero’s, and is truly one of the “good guys”. Got what he deserved wouldn’t be the term I’d use for Josh.
Very proud Brewers fan, even though that loss stings. Excited for the upcoming years, especially with Stearns in office.
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You're over thinking it. He's saying he didn't come close to throwing a strike and would have been a walk if it wasn't for the controversial HBP.
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You're over thinking it.
Well this is scoop
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Well this is scoop
Usually lack of thought is more scoopish.
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That is because you are incapable of changing your mind on anything. To do so would admit defeat.
The rest of us see that sort of thing as personal growth.
Or I just don’t see it hitting the bat first just as so many other people don’t either while others do.
I’ve changed my mind often and adapted where necessary, but “progress” for the sake of progress which sometimes based on unhinged emotional blather...your kind of logic...isn’t what I do. And for you to say you adapt is pretty damn funny. If a 1000 climatologists came out tomorrow to say climate data is trumped up like several did last week, you would fight to the death to destroy their findings. So give it a rest...you know that is exactly what you would do because otherwise you would have to admit you were wrong.
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This is what it comes down to for me. I don't think they could have changed it either way and had to stick with the original call.
I think you are right.
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Or I just don’t see it hitting the bat first just as so many other people don’t either while others do.
I’ve changed my mind often and adapted where necessary, but “progress” for the sake of progress which sometimes based on unhinged emotional blather...your kind of logic...isn’t what I do. And for you to say you adapt is pretty damn funny. If a 1000 climatologists came out tomorrow to say climate data is trumped up like several did last week, you would fight to the death to destroy their findings. So give it a rest...you know that is exactly what you would do because otherwise you would have to admit you were wrong.
Politics.
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Or I just don’t see it hitting the bat first just as so many other people don’t either while others do.
I’ve changed my mind often and adapted where necessary, but “progress” for the sake of progress which sometimes based on unhinged emotional blather...your kind of logic...isn’t what I do. And for you to say you adapt is pretty damn funny. If a 1000 climatologists came out tomorrow to say climate data is trumped up like several did last week, you would fight to the death to destroy their findings. So give it a rest...you know that is exactly what you would do because otherwise you would have to admit you were wrong.
I'm not sure if this is satire, but this is actually hilarious. I should have added a trigger warning to my original post.
my bad.
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Politics.
The climate is politics? I thought it was a topic to save the world and transcended everything.
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In Game 7 of the 2001 World Series, a Diamondback was HBP to load the bases with one out before Luis Gonzalez hit the blooper off Mariano Rivera to win it. The HBP could have hit the knob--but before video replay--the ump awarded the batter his base and the matter quickly moved on.
The Diamondback who was hit, of course, was Craig Counsell.
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Game 163 in 2009, Brandon Inge was HBP, could clearly see his jersey move, no call. Ah, well.
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In Game 7 of the 2001 World Series, a Diamondback was HBP to load the bases with one out before Luis Gonzalez hit the blooper off Mariano Rivera to win it. The HBP could have hit the knob--but before video replay--the ump awarded the batter his base and the matter quickly moved on.
The Diamondback who was hit, of course, was Craig Counsell.
If it hit Counsell's bat, the pitch was 2 feet above his head. ;D
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After last night 9 straights losses in winner-take-all postseason games for the A's since 2002. Last night on the broadcast they mentioned that their two season total of 194 wins was the most in MLB history for a team that did not win a league or division in either year. Then they got snuffed out easily both times in the playoffs.
Should be an excellent postseason this year, with 4 100+ win teams, and the balance with 97, 96, 93 and 91 wins. That is solid mix of good to great teams.
Something tells me this will be the Dodgers year, though I think the Astros are the most well-rounded (and best) team. I'll be rooting for a Nats-Rays series. With nothing left to root for (I was on the Brewers bandwagon for 9 whole innings), I'd like to see a team who hasn't won before win one. The Yankees, Astros and Cardinals each have won in the last 10 years, so will be rooting against them.
But really and always, please anybody but the Yankees!
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After last night 9 straights losses in winner-take-all postseason games for the A's since 2002. Last night on the broadcast they mentioned that their two season total of 194 wins was the most in MLB history for a team that did not win a league or division in either year. Then they got snuffed out easily both times in the playoffs.
Should be an excellent postseason this year, with 4 100+ win teams, and the balance with 97, 96, 93 and 91 wins. That is solid mix of good to great teams.
Something tells me this will be the Dodgers year, though I think the Astros are the most well-rounded (and best) team. I'll be rooting for a Nats-Rays series. With nothing left to root for (I was on the Brewers bandwagon for 9 whole innings), I'd like to see a team who hasn't won before win one. The Yankees, Astros and Cardinals each have won in the last 10 years, so will be rooting against them.
But really and always, please anybody but the Yankees!
I'm in no way disappointed the Ray's won, but I would have loved to see the A's advance. I love to watch that team and wish they got to play a bit more. I would have loved a series with the Rays.
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I'm rooting for Nats vs. Twins.
Which means it'll probably be Dodgers vs. Yankees.
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nm
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Does an actual Cherokee Indian, who also happens to pitch for the Cardinals, have a "right" to be offended by Braves fans doing the chop (with the team actively urging on those fans by playing the accompanying music)?
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/cards-helsley-a-member-of-cherokee-nation-calls-chop-chant/article_4150156e-89ae-5e55-8e0d-7936eeef8ded.html
Should the Braves care if Ryan Helsley and other Indians are offended? After all, in the past, teams have hidden behind polls that have shown that most Indians theoretically don't care about this stuff.
I could give all kinds of "what-ifs" -- what if they were the Atlanta Catholics and fans were encouraged to depict priests raping little boys -- but really, there is no such equivalent. Same with blacks or Jews or whatever. So I guess it's just A-OK that even in 2019 Indians are allowed to be mocked as scalpin' savages even if it offends 20% or 30% or whatever % of them?
Seriously, find another way to cry out for attention.
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Wow, the Yankees continue to just down the Twins in the playoffs.
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Does an actual Cherokee Indian, who also happens to pitch for the Cardinals, have a "right" to be offended by Braves fans doing the chop (with the team actively urging on those fans by playing the accompanying music)?
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/cards-helsley-a-member-of-cherokee-nation-calls-chop-chant/article_4150156e-89ae-5e55-8e0d-7936eeef8ded.html
Should the Braves care if Ryan Helsley and other Indians are offended? After all, in the past, teams have hidden behind polls that have shown that most Indians theoretically don't care about this stuff.
I could give all kinds of "what-ifs" -- what if they were the Atlanta Catholics and fans were encouraged to depict priests raping little boys -- but really, there is no such equivalent. Same with blacks or Jews or whatever. So I guess it's just A-OK that even in 2019 Indians are allowed to be mocked as scalpin' savages even if it offends 20% or 30% or whatever % of them?
You threw out a poll the other day and because you said a majority of folks approved it, that’s all that matters. Now you argue the exact opposite as polls overwhelmingly show this kind of thing is a nothing burger.
So which is it....do polls matter or only matter for the stuff you decide it matters for?
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This FS1 broadcast is great.
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You threw out a poll the other day and because you said a majority of folks approved it, that’s all that matters. Now you argue the exact opposite as polls overwhelmingly show this kind of thing is a nothing burger.
So which is it....do polls matter or only matter for the stuff you decide it matters for?
Any of us could ask the same question of your cherry-picking of polls you choose to embrace and ignore.
I'm talking about a real Indian who really pitches in the majors being really offended by the Atlanta Scalpin' Savages imagery. I happen to think this one doesn't need a poll, but others are allowed to disagree.
Seriously, find another way to cry out for attention.
Well, it is an actual situation that is very much in the news.
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Well, it is an actual situation that is very much in the news.
The situation is sure. Your editorializing wasn't.
And it seems pretty obvious that you just threw it out to start a fight with Chico's. And a fight you've had a million times at that.
Don't you two have enough threads in which to fight?
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The situation is sure. Your editorializing wasn't.
And it seems pretty obvious that you just threw it out to start a fight with Chico's. And a fight you've had a million times at that.
Don't you two have enough threads in which to fight?
Editorializing? It was an opinion. We all have them -- even you, buck.
This is an interesting topic that many have discussed. I was going to promise not to respond to anything hoopaloop says about it ... but after reflection, given what you have said, I instead have decided to delete my comment.
I don't want to muck up the MLB thread. It can be another conversation for another day in a different thread.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend, my friend.
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Any of us could ask the same question of your cherry-picking of polls you choose to embrace and ignore.
I'm talking about a real Indian who really pitches in the majors being really offended by the Atlanta Scalpin' Savages imagery. I happen to think this one doesn't need a poll, but others are allowed to disagree.
Well, it is an actual situation that is very much in the news.
Why of course you move the goalposts and have a different standard. And when “real Indians” (Your words) say Indian mascots, names, etc are ok in polling, interviews, etc, we ignore those b3cause they don’t align with your views...got it. So the real Indian matters when you want it to matter, but their views don’t matter when you don’t want it to matter. How awesome is that!!! I can think of a faux Indian we could ask the question that no doubt would give you the answer and support you want.
Hell, even the mechanical sponsorship cows are in on it
https://youtu.be/F2K5VftaByU
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If Nationals can get deep with their starting pitching, they have a shot to know off Los Angeles. Their bullpen is not good, but Scherzer tonight gives them an excellent chance to move up 2-1.
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If Nationals can get deep with their starting pitching, they have a shot to know off Los Angeles. Their bullpen is not good, but Scherzer tonight gives them an excellent chance to move up 2-1.
Max Scherzer isn’t pitching tonight
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This FS1 broadcast is great.
Both Pierzynski and Girardi name-drop a lot. Who cares if Adam Dunn or a retired umpire is texting you?
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Both Pierzynski and Girardi name-drop a lot. Who cares if Adam Dunn or a retired umpire is texting you?
Cheeks does!
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Cheeks does!
I want you to know how much I admire and love you.
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Max Scherzer isn’t pitching tonight
I love what you did there.
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The Yankees have some sort of crazy voodoo over the Twins.
Including the playoffs, since 2002 the Twins are 37-103 (.264 43-119 over 162 game season pace) against the Yankees, including 2-16 in the postseason (losing all five playoff series and one wild card game).
When not playing the Yankees the Twins have a winning record over that time, with a 1,443 - 1,365 record, including the postseason (.514 83-79 pace).
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The Twins went 47-16 against the White Sox, Royals, Tigers, and Orioles en route to their 101 win season. I was rooting for them, but they would've probably been a fourth place team in the AL East or NL Central., and had no chance against the Yankees.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/SouthsideZo/status/1181353567195668480?s=19
The Cardinal Way. The unwritten rule book the Cards wrote allow for this.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/SouthsideZo/status/1181353567195668480?s=19
The Cardinal Way. The unwritten rule book the Cards wrote allow for this.
Molina is such a massive hypocrite, cause he'd have a conniption of this was done to them. Speaking of, has anyone check to see if Brian McCann is alive? I imagine he must have spontaneously combusted.
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Molina is such a massive hypocrite, cause he'd have a conniption of this was done to them. Speaking of, has anyone check to see if Brian McCann is alive? I imagine he must have spontaneously combusted.
I thought the same when I saw it.
That being said, I really, really like and respect Yadier Molina. He's been a hell of a ballplayer and a gamer for nearly two decades now.
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I thought the same when I saw it.
That being said, I really, really like and respect Yadier Molina. He's been a hell of a ballplayer and a gamer for nearly two decades now.
I would never say like or respect, other than respect for his ability as a player. He's an incredible catcher and has been a consistent force for a long time. But he's also been a magnificent tool and outright douche for most of those years as well. Beloved by Cardinals fans, but reviled otherwise in my experience.
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Molina was obviously mocking what the opposing team’s players had been doing in the series.
He’s been pretty consistent for 16 seasons that he will stick up for his teammates, community when approached first. He’s actually pretty popular around the league with players, managers, umpires etc...except to some opposing team fans and that can happen in those situations, as well as having a lot of success over that time.
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Molina was obviously mocking what the opposing team’s players had been doing in the series.
He’s been pretty consistent for 16 seasons that he will stick up for his teammates, community when approached first. He’s actually pretty popular around the league with players, managers, umpires etc...except to some opposing team fans and that can happen in those situations, as well as having a lot of success over that time.
That was a lot of words for someone who could be described via one:
Douche
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Molina was obviously mocking what the opposing team’s players had been doing in the series.
He’s been pretty consistent for 16 seasons that he will stick up for his teammates, community when approached first. He’s actually pretty popular around the league with players, managers, umpires etc...except to some opposing team fans and that can happen in those situations, as well as having a lot of success over that time.
Seriously, shoot?
I'm totally sick of these self-righteous old grumps. Do guys like him realize baseball is a "game"? Something kids do for "fun?
If you want to be dead serious all the time, fine - I have no problem with that. But, Yadier, shut the h*ll up about how others play and enjoy the "game".
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Molina was obviously mocking what the opposing team’s players had been doing in the series.
He’s been pretty consistent for 16 seasons that he will stick up for his teammates, community when approached first. He’s actually pretty popular around the league with players, managers, umpires etc...except to some opposing team fans and that can happen in those situations, as well as having a lot of success over that time.
Is that why Pujols posed after home runs? To mock the players the Cardinals called out and beaned for doing the same thing? C’mon.
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Seriously, shoot?
I'm totally sick of these self-righteous old grumps. Do guys like him realize baseball is a "game"? Something kids do for "fun?
If you want to be dead serious all the time, fine - I have no problem with that. But, Yadier, shut the h*ll up about how others play and enjoy the "game".
I believe he was clearly having fun and celebrating yesterday. What I’m saying is he doesn’t often go around doing things unless it is in response to something/someone else. But yes he has a willingness to be the guy to stick his neck out for a teammate or someone else in response to some thing or someone else, often times it is in response to something someone says. There were some off camera things going on prior to what you saw where some things were said and done. If you also watched, he played the games without getting into it with the other team. It was only in the moment of celebrating that he had some fun. My point was and is that he isn’t an instigator. He will respond sometimes if pushed, yes. Think of that whatever you wish. Much of the time his default demeanor is pretty relaxed, generous, and positive with everyone.
He really doesn’t get into very many disputes. I can think of two others in 16 years with individual opposing players that provoked something. He’s actually one of the biggest playful peacemakers out there. That’s pretty well known around the league.
As I mentioned before, things such as Best Fans in Baseball or Cardinal Way are not things that originated with the Cardinals or in St. Louis. Many St. Louis fans aren’t really interested in any of that kind of stuff. As for particular fans, every fan base has good, bad, indifferent fans.
And, some fans need a scapegoat or enemy of some kind. (See jilted MU fans re: Tom Crean, Buzz Williams, leaving, or whenever Notre Dame or Wisconsin is mentioned)...and I understand that. I’m guessing some of the people with the comments here for Molina or the Cardinals, are Cubs fans and Brewer fans etc...and the Cards have had some success over the years.
Molina’s been successful, 10 playoffs in 16 years. And he’s played a long time, starting young in the majors. I’m sure some would get tired of that.
Take Marquette for example, I just don’t have the animosity for the Badgers or Notre Dame etc...that some others do. I’m not oblivious or inexperienced to it. I’m a Marquette grad, been a season ticket holder, hope Marquette wins almost every game. I’ve been to games of various sports including and not including MU in those places etc...I know there are good, bad, indifferent fans, players etc...
With regards to Yadi, I just mentioned what I knew. I don’t get into too much of the outside things outside of the games themselves. I’m more interested in why the Cardinals didn’t pitch to McCann Sunday, or what exactly Randy Arozarena has to do for the manager play him a little more. Or being Surprised Paul Goldschmidt has the highest OPS in MLB history for those with 50 or more AB’s. Or why Martinez was still throwing changeups that were clearly spinning and backing up, when the fastball was working. Things like that.
With regards to the photo I was simply explaining the context. But I’m aware some don’t like the Cardinals because of their success or because of a National Media portrayal of them. Or whatever the reason.
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Is that why Pujols posed after home runs? To mock the players the Cardinals called out and beaned for doing the same thing? C’mon.
Every person is an individual. We were discussing Molina. Take beaning for example. Tony LaRussa had one simple rule when it came to that. Don’t throw intentionally at a guy’s head. If you throw at him, gotta be in the backside or leg. That of course is common with some managers. Or if you pitcher lacks so much command, that he nearly beans someone multiple times. he’d probably freak out about that too if you didn’t take him out.
So any opinion I have would have to depend on the individual person or situation or even season etc..
There are definitely some interesting stories out there, behind the scenes things.
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I believe he was clearly having fun and celebrating yesterday. What I’m saying is he doesn’t often go around doing things unless it is in response to something/someone else.
.........
I'll admit I'm a Cards hater, but I'm guessin' I didn't need to tell you that.
I appreciate the response.
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Lol!
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I'll admit I'm a Cards hater, but I'm guessin' I didn't need to tell you that.
I appreciate the response.
No worries 👍
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I would never say like or respect, other than respect for his ability as a player. He's an incredible catcher and has been a consistent force for a long time. But he's also been a magnificent tool and outright douche for most of those years as well. Beloved by Cardinals fans, but reviled otherwise in my experience.
I am neither a Cards fan nor a Cards hater. I simply appreciate his skill and the passion he plays with.
All the extracurricular stuff, whether he's doing it or somebody else is doing it ... that crud never bothers me.
I will say that if one is an over-the-top celebrator, though, one must be prepared to be mocked sometimes.
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I was surprised to hear that Verlander had only pitched on 3 days rest one time in his career before today. And once I heard that, I was surprised the Astros trotted him out there.
Let him get his normal rest and use the future Hall of Famer in Game 5 if necessary. As a bonus, if you win Game 4 without him, you can start him in Game 1 of the ALCS.
I guess it was easier to do with Garret Cole rested and ready for Game 5, but I still didn't like the decision.
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As the senior resident Cardinals fan in this blog, I really think Yadier Molina is someone special. Defensively he is about as good as it comes and he's a dream at handling pitchers. His average is way up from where it was when he broke into the majors.
Telling a Cubs fan today (who incidentally, wished Molina was in Cub red rather than enemy colors) that among catchers I've seen in my life, about the only ones better were Johnny Bench, maybe Thurman Munson and possibly Manny Sanguillen. I'm partial on the third one only because Sanguillen was the best bad ball hitter in the history of baseball.
Molina is one of the best ever and deserving of the HOF someday.
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As the senior resident Cardinals fan in this blog, I really think Yadier Molina is someone special. Defensively he is about as good as it comes and he's a dream at handling pitchers. His average is way up from where it was when he broke into the majors.
Telling a Cubs fan today (who incidentally, wished Molina was in Cub red rather than enemy colors) that among catchers I've seen in my life, about the only ones better were Johnny Bench, maybe Thurman Munson and possibly Manny Sanguillen. I'm partial on the third one only because Sanguillen was the best bad ball hitter in the history of baseball.
Molina is one of the best ever and deserving of the HOF someday.
I was a huge Yankees fan as a kid and loved Munson. But as an objective adult and observer of the game, Molina is a WAAAAY better ballplayer than Munson was. Munson was tough, and was a somewhat better hitter, but Yadi's defense changes games. Munson was a mediocre receiver.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/MLB/status/850081762889916417?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-42181659011252783946.ampproject.net%2F1910071803120%2Fframe.html
Really hard to figure out how Yadier is so good defensively. Not the only time this has happened with him.
Let me guess. The Cards saw the opponent’s catcher, in full gear, bathing in a tub of super glue so he retaliated in kind. He’d never cheat without someone instigating it.
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As the senior resident Cardinals fan in this blog, I really think Yadier Molina is someone special. Defensively he is about as good as it comes and he's a dream at handling pitchers. His average is way up from where it was when he broke into the majors.
Telling a Cubs fan today (who incidentally, wished Molina was in Cub red rather than enemy colors) that among catchers I've seen in my life, about the only ones better were Johnny Bench, maybe Thurman Munson and possibly Manny Sanguillen. I'm partial on the third one only because Sanguillen was the best bad ball hitter in the history of baseball.
Molina is one of the best ever and deserving of the HOF someday.
Vlad Guerrero best bad ball hitter I ever saw.
Munson...I feel his death put him higher in ability than reality...JFK syndrome. Angels had the other two Molina catchers and we won a WS with Bengie. That family has that position down to a science.
I’m partial to Pudge, Bench, Fisk, Molina and Carter. Piazza had his moments, Simmons, and maybe Posey. Too young to see Yogi and Campanella play
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Vlad Guerrero best bad ball hitter I ever saw.
Munson...I feel his death put him higher in ability than reality...JFK syndrome. Angels had the other two Molina catchers and we won a WS with Bengie. That family has that position down to a science.
I’m partial to Pudge, Bench, Fisk, Molina and Carter. Piazza had his moments, Simmons, and maybe Posey. Too young to see Yogi and Campanella play
Agree about Munson ... except for the unnecessary political reference.
Pudge Rodriguez was probably the best catcher I've seen, followed by Bench. Yadi is way up there, though several you named were better hitters.
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My Ted Simmons story:
When I was a kid reporter, just out of MU, it was the summer of '82 and the Brewers were on their way to winning the pennant. I was working on a national article about the difference between the NL and AL strike zones, and the first player I tried to interview was Simmons. I figured here's a guy who had caught in both leagues and who was a very good hitter, too. And he had the reputation of having the gift of gab. Perfect guy to talk to.
Unbeknownst to me, though, he had a beef with one of the Journal reporters that started a few days before I got to the ballpark. So when I approached him in the clubhouse, he looked at me and said, "Sorry ... nothing personal ... but I'm not talking to the media." I stood there stunned as he turned his back to me at his locker. It took me another hour to get the guts to interview somebody else, but I did finally get all I needed to write the piece.
Whatever his beef was, it apparently got settled, and Simmons was back talking again a week or so later. And when I went to another game to do an article on Charlie Moore -- the catcher turned right-fielder, Simmons saw me, recognized me, apologized for having not talked the previous time, and gave me a great interview about Moore. I also covered the game later that season in which Rickey Henderson set the single-season steals record, and Simmons was the catcher who couldn't throw him out (which put him in good company). Simmons was eloquent that day, too.
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My Ted Simmons story:
When I was a kid reporter, just out of MU, it was the summer of '82 and the Brewers were on their way to winning the pennant. I was working on a national article about the difference between the NL and AL strike zones, and the first player I tried to interview was Simmons. I figured here's a guy who had caught in both leagues and who was a very good hitter, too. And he had the reputation of having the gift of gab. Perfect guy to talk to.
Unbeknownst to me, though, he had a beef with one of the Journal reporters that started a few days before I got to the ballpark. So when I approached him in the clubhouse, he looked at me and said, "Sorry ... nothing personal ... but I'm not talking to the media." I stood there stunned as he turned his back to me at his locker. It took me another hour to get the guts to interview somebody else, but I did finally get all I needed to write the piece.
Whatever his beef was, it apparently got settled, and Simmons was back talking again a week or so later. And when I went to another game to do an article on Charlie Moore -- the catcher turned right-fielder, Simmons saw me, recognized me, apologized for having not talked the previous time, and gave me a great interview about Moore. I also covered the game later that season in which Rickey Henderson set the single-season steals record, and Simmons was the catcher who couldn't throw him out (which put him in good company). Simmons was eloquent that day, too.
Cool story. Glad he apologized and gave you the time of day ultimately.
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I think you are both underating Munson. Not saying he is as good as Bench or Pudge, but I think he has actually been overlooked with the passage of time. Earlier in his career, when the Yankees weren't very good, he won rookie of the year and was one of the best fielding catchers in the game. He was AL MVP when the Yankees got back to the Series.
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I don’t have a lot of individual award interest, but... Two things that have hurt the Hall of fame chances of Ted Simmons:
1) Didn’t play on a lot of great teams.
2) Didn’t have a great relationship with the media.
3) You could add a third that he didn’t play in a large media market.
He’s one of the more deserving candidates not in the MLB HOF.
It’s one of many reasons to not take Halls of Fame very seriously.
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My Ted Simmons story:
I also covered the game later that season in which Rickey Henderson set the single-season steals record, and Simmons was the catcher who couldn't throw him out (which put him in good company). Simmons was eloquent that day, too.
At that point in his career, Ted Simmons couldn't throw my cocker spaniel out, much less a major league baseball player. That's why Whitey Herzog traded Simmons from the Cardinals to the Brewers in favor of Darryl Porter.
Simmons is no more a Hall of Famer than the aforementioned Charlie Moore is. He was a good ballplayer and very active in the St. Louis area. The fans loved him. But he is not up there with Molina, Fisk, Bench, Campenella etc.
Ted Simmons also isn't going into the HOF anytime soon because of his role in free agency. Early in his career, he held out on the basis that an automatic one-year renewal of his contract meant one year, versus the owners' Reserve Clause perspective that it was a perpetual renewal. Simmons had one heck of a year that hold-out year (I think it was 1971 or 1972) and hit the ball like the world was coming to an end. MLB Owners pushed and pushed until Gussie Busch signed him.
Stopping Simmons from testing the Reserve Clause saved the owners about two years.
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Interesting discussion on catchers.
Just a few years into his career, he had arm troubles and had trouble throwing to second. He tried to compensate by getting rid of the ball quickly but the ball tended to tail away and his errors increased significantly. He did win Gold Gloves in 73, 74 and 75 based on the other things he brought to the table.
Munson was a good hitter, albeit with little power. He had three straight 100-RBI seasons once the Yankees got good but otherwise wasn't a great run-producer. His Baseball Reference similars: Terry Steinbach, Tim McCarver, Manny Sanguillen. The only reason he got serious Hall consideration is because he was from NY and he died. (And again, I was a huge Yankees/Munson fan back then.)
Simmons probably should have gotten more Hall consideration than he did -- he was eliminated on his first ballot. That one year (1994) came 2 years before I started voting, so don't blame me -- ha! Seriously, he hit well enough that he was a borderline HoFer. I know dgies was being hyperbolic, but he definitely was a better candidate than Charlie Moore. And believe it or not, he actually had a better caught-stealing pct than the overall league many of his years.
I seriously doubt that his role in the Reserve Clause thing hurt him on the BBWAA ballot; if anything, that would have helped his case with the electorate. It might hurt his case with the Veterans' Committee, but I doubt it; many of them are ex-players who benefited from the strong union.
Also, his relationship with the media was fine. He had a few dust-ups, like many did, but he generally was considered approachable and a good quote. So many St. Louis players have made the Hall that I doubt it was because of the market he played in; he was hardly an unknown quantity.
The fact that he didn't play on many teams that reached the postseason certainly could have been a factor. In his only couple of appearances, he had a .635 OPS and .186 average, so he didn't stand out on the big stage.
Simmons' Hall candidacy was similar to a few more recent players: Kenny Lofton, Jim Edmonds, Lance Berkman, Nomar, etc -- very good ballplayers who, for one reason or another, didn't get traction on the ballot and fell off it after one year of not receiving at least 5% of the vote.
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Interesting discussion on catchers.
Just a few years into his career, he had arm troubles and had trouble throwing to second. He tried to compensate by getting rid of the ball quickly but the ball tended to tail away and his errors increased significantly. He did win Gold Gloves in 73, 74 and 75 based on the other things he brought to the table.
Munson was a good hitter, albeit with little power. He had three straight 100-RBI seasons once the Yankees got good but otherwise wasn't a great run-producer. His Baseball Reference similars: Terry Steinbach, Tim McCarver, Manny Sanguillen. The only reason he got serious Hall consideration is because he was from NY and he died. (And again, I was a huge Yankees/Munson fan back then.)
Simmons probably should have gotten more Hall consideration than he did -- he was eliminated on his first ballot. That one year (1994) came 2 years before I started voting, so don't blame me -- ha! Seriously, he hit well enough that he was a borderline HoFer. I know dgies was being hyperbolic, but he definitely was a better candidate than Charlie Moore. And believe it or not, he actually had a better caught-stealing pct than the overall league many of his years.
I seriously doubt that his role in the Reserve Clause thing hurt him on the BBWAA ballot; if anything, that would have helped his case with the electorate. It might hurt his case with the Veterans' Committee, but I doubt it; many of them are ex-players who benefited from the strong union.
Also, his relationship with the media was fine. He had a few dust-ups, like many did, but he generally was considered approachable and a good quote. So many St. Louis players have made the Hall that I doubt it was because of the market he played in; he was hardly an unknown quantity.
The fact that he didn't play on many teams that reached the postseason certainly could have been a factor. In his only couple of appearances, he had a .635 OPS and .186 average, so he didn't stand out on the big stage.
Simmons' Hall candidacy was similar to a few more recent players: Kenny Lofton, Jim Edmonds, Lance Berkman, Nomar, etc -- very good ballplayers who, for one reason or another, didn't get traction on the ballot and fell off it after one year of not receiving at least 5% of the vote.
Excellent Analysis Brother MU.
My point about Charlie Moore is that I respectfully believe neither belong in the HOF. It's a binary decision and not a relative worth estimation.
You are right about Simmons' bat and I suspect the reserve clause issue may be helpful with today's voters (for anyone who remembers it). I just suspect that if you let Simmons in, you're diminishing the definition of "fame." He probably should be in the Cardinals HOF, if he's not already there, but that's about it.
Otherwise, you take on baseball is interesting and good.
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Hey this Charlie Moore highlight happened 37 years ago tomorrow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4sUPspVhig
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Interesting discussion on catchers.
Just a few years into his career, he had arm troubles and had trouble throwing to second. He tried to compensate by getting rid of the ball quickly but the ball tended to tail away and his errors increased significantly. He did win Gold Gloves in 73, 74 and 75 based on the other things he brought to the table.
Munson was a good hitter, albeit with little power. He had three straight 100-RBI seasons once the Yankees got good but otherwise wasn't a great run-producer. His Baseball Reference similars: Terry Steinbach, Tim McCarver, Manny Sanguillen. The only reason he got serious Hall consideration is because he was from NY and he died. (And again, I was a huge Yankees/Munson fan back then.)
Simmons probably should have gotten more Hall consideration than he did -- he was eliminated on his first ballot. That one year (1994) came 2 years before I started voting, so don't blame me -- ha! Seriously, he hit well enough that he was a borderline HoFer. I know dgies was being hyperbolic, but he definitely was a better candidate than Charlie Moore. And believe it or not, he actually had a better caught-stealing pct than the overall league many of his years.
I seriously doubt that his role in the Reserve Clause thing hurt him on the BBWAA ballot; if anything, that would have helped his case with the electorate. It might hurt his case with the Veterans' Committee, but I doubt it; many of them are ex-players who benefited from the strong union.
Also, his relationship with the media was fine. He had a few dust-ups, like many did, but he generally was considered approachable and a good quote. So many St. Louis players have made the Hall that I doubt it was because of the market he played in; he was hardly an unknown quantity.
The fact that he didn't play on many teams that reached the postseason certainly could have been a factor. In his only couple of appearances, he had a .635 OPS and .186 average, so he didn't stand out on the big stage.
Simmons' Hall candidacy was similar to a few more recent players: Kenny Lofton, Jim Edmonds, Lance Berkman, Nomar, etc -- very good ballplayers who, for one reason or another, didn't get traction on the ballot and fell off it after one year of not receiving at least 5% of the vote.
Simmons is top ten all time WAR for catchers (all other eligible catchers in top ten are in HOF) He is 2nd all time for catchers in hits and RBI’s...etc...He’s a good candidate.
With regards to the other things, yes it does matter with regards to media markets and popularity with media. A borderline candidate will have more challenges. A close friend of mine has been a long time MLB and NFL HOF voter. So I have a little bit of an idea of what their experience is with the process and players.
Guys like Jim Edmonds, Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright etc...are Hall of the very good type players not HOF. Or more simply put they are or will be in the Cardinals team HOF which has a handful of candidates annually.
Simmons did suffer from playing at a similar time with a few of the all time catching greats.
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I was surprised to hear that Verlander had only pitched on 3 days rest one time in his career before today. And once I heard that, I was surprised the Astros trotted him out there.
Let him get his normal rest and use the future Hall of Famer in Game 5 if necessary. As a bonus, if you win Game 4 without him, you can start him in Game 1 of the ALCS.
I guess it was easier to do with Garret Cole rested and ready for Game 5, but I still didn't like the decision.
Ditto
As Hinch was pulling Grienke in game 3 the dugout cam showed him talking to Verlander...Im guessing he was asking if he would Pitch Tuesday.
Yet previously...In local Hinch behind the scenes stuff he explained that his analytics use allows him to preplan all in game decisions against the data....b/c , he said...in game decisions in the heat of the battle are usually bad....
Then....Violative of his personal discipline...and
In the heat/excitement over Grienke getting blasted, Hinch panicked and made a poor on the spot in game choice to use Verlander....without the data that he had NEVER done so before. Dumb mistake
Over many decades of my watching playoff baseball, my guess is that short rest starts succeed less than half the time.
We will overcome Hinch's error...Cole should be fine back home here in Houston...Astros in 5...but...
Hinch's in the moment panic may have screwed up the ALCS rotation
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Simmons is top ten all time WAR for catchers (all other eligible catchers in top ten are in HOF) He is 2nd all time for catchers in hits and RBI’s...etc...He’s a good candidate.
With regards to the other things, yes it does matter with regards to media markets and popularity with media. A borderline candidate will have more challenges. A close friend of mine has been a long time MLB and NFL HOF voter. So I have a little bit of an idea of what their experience is with the process and players.
Guys like Jim Edmonds, Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright etc...are Hall of the very good type players not HOF. Or more simply put they are or will be in the Cardinals team HOF which has a handful of candidates annually.
Simmons did suffer from playing at a similar time with a few of the all time catching greats.
Not bragging (because it's really nothing to brag about), just stating fact: I have been a Baseball HOF voter since 1996. Just FYI, the process is considerably different from the way football chooses its HOFers.
Hundreds and hundreds of BBWAA members select for baseball. Each is allowed to choose up to 10 per year (can choose anywhere from 0 to 10). Otherwise, as long as they are on the official ballot, there are no rules.
In football, a committee chooses the candidates and a small committee then votes and selects each year's HoFers. Lobbying takes place. Football, unlike baseball, wants to elect X number of HoFers every year.
Baseball's veterans committee is more like football's regular committee. They elect guys who were passed over for one reason or another. It's always been a little suspect to me. Players who were vetted for years by hundreds of longtime baseball observers, most of whom had little to no ulterior motive, get rejected over and over again ... and then a small panel steps in and puts those players in the Hall. I guess some guys could have fallen through the cracks for one reason or another ... but otherwise that's how you get the likes of Harold Baines in the Hall. So yes, maybe Simmons still has a shot.
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Yep. Much different processes. With NFL, My friend was asked to be the presenter for a certain candidate, successfully. It was a ton of work and lobbying for him. But when you present a good case, it can really open some eyes in some situations. I’ll ask him once in a while ahead of time if this is the year for such and such a player. There are often logjams at positions. (wide receiver comes to mind) It can be pretty interesting. I know that there are some voters that take the process more seriously and objectively than others. (Like any other walk of life)
Overall, as I said it isn’t a big interest of mine. Once in a while something may stand out such as a specific candidate for some reason that interests me. But much of the time it comes and goes without too much interest from me.
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Not bragging (because it's really nothing to brag about), just stating fact: I have been a Baseball HOF voter since 1996. Just FYI, the process is considerably different from the way football chooses its HOFers.
Hundreds and hundreds of BBWAA members select for baseball. Each is allowed to choose up to 10 per year (can choose anywhere from 0 to 10). Otherwise, as long as they are on the official ballot, there are no rules.
In football, a committee chooses the candidates and a small committee then votes and selects each year's HoFers. Lobbying takes place. Football, unlike baseball, wants to elect X number of HoFers every year.
Baseball's veterans committee is more like football's regular committee. They elect guys who were passed over for one reason or another. It's always been a little suspect to me. Players who were vetted for years by hundreds of longtime baseball observers, most of whom had little to no ulterior motive, get rejected over and over again ... and then a small panel steps in and puts those players in the Hall. I guess some guys could have fallen through the cracks for one reason or another ... but otherwise that's how you get the likes of Harold Baines in the Hall. So yes, maybe Simmons still has a shot.
Overheard at BBWAA HQ once a year for the past 30 years:
"Dammit, will someone please call the bald guy and tell him to stop writing in Eddie Gaedel."
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Not bragging (because it's really nothing to brag about), just stating fact: I have been a Baseball HOF voter since 1996. Just FYI, the process is considerably different from the way football chooses its HOFers.
Hundreds and hundreds of BBWAA members select for baseball. Each is allowed to choose up to 10 per year (can choose anywhere from 0 to 10). Otherwise, as long as they are on the official ballot, there are no rules.
In football, a committee chooses the candidates and a small committee then votes and selects each year's HoFers. Lobbying takes place. Football, unlike baseball, wants to elect X number of HoFers every year.
Baseball's veterans committee is more like football's regular committee. They elect guys who were passed over for one reason or another. It's always been a little suspect to me. Players who were vetted for years by hundreds of longtime baseball observers, most of whom had little to no ulterior motive, get rejected over and over again ... and then a small panel steps in and puts those players in the Hall. I guess some guys could have fallen through the cracks for one reason or another ... but otherwise that's how you get the likes of Harold Baines in the Hall. So yes, maybe Simmons still has a shot.
I think the Veteran's Committee serves a purpose. Some legitimately great players (Arky Vaughan, for example) were missed by the writers. Harold Baines was really bad selection greatly influenced by having a committee makeup of his friends and well wishers, and may change the Veteran's Committee process the way Bill Mazeroski did, but I doubt it. There are many worse players than Ted Simmons in the HOF and many voted in by the writers.
Simmons was hurt by being a contemporary of Bench so you never thought of him as the best catcher at any time, and that kept him from resonating with a lot of voters, and he played prominently for the Brewers at the end of his career when he wasn't so good so I get the feeling that is how voters remembered him when it was time to vote on him. Not a travesty that he is not in, but I think he probably deserves it.
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Overheard at BBWAA HQ once a year for the past 30 years:
"Dammit, will someone please call the bald guy and tell him to stop writing in Eddie Gaedel."
That's Mr. Bald Guy to you, pal.
And I only wrote in the little guy once, after I had been out celebrating our EE win over Kentucky.
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@mu82
Yes or no to Rose
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So the Cardinals-Braves game is certainly something...
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@mu82
Yes or no to Rose
First of all, he was not on the ballot. A few voters wrote him in but not many, and I was not one of them.
Otherwise ...
In the fairly distant past, my position was that he should be in the Hall as a player but should not be allowed anywhere near the game -- not as GM, manager, coach, "ambassador," nothing. The thought process was that he didn't bet on baseball as a player -- so he should be allowed in for his playing exploits -- but he did bet on his own games when he was a manager, so that is a lifetime ban away from the game.
However, more recently, credible evidence surfaced that he indeed did bet on his games when he was an active player. For me (and obviously for the Hall), that is absolutely disqualifying.
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First of all, he was not on the ballot. A few voters wrote him in but not many, and I was not one of them.
Otherwise ...
In the fairly distant past, my position was that he should be in the Hall as a player but should not be allowed anywhere near the game -- not as GM, manager, coach, "ambassador," nothing. The thought process was that he didn't bet on baseball as a player -- so he should be allowed in for his playing exploits -- but he did bet on his own games when he was a manager, so that is a lifetime ban away from the game.
However, more recently, credible evidence surfaced that he indeed did bet on his games when he was an active player. For me (and obviously for the Hall), that is absolutely disqualifying.
What about the Juicers?
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@mu82
Yes or no to Rose
No.
When I worked for the Angels we had in the clubhouse in huge letters about betting. The team had to go through detailed training from MLB on no betting. Every MLB team got the same training, same notice. It was so crystal clear. You bet on baseball you are done. Period. No exceptions. People were so damn scared to even do NCAA pools.
Factor in Pete lies about it again and again.
NO
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What about the Juicers?
The cream and the clear weren't on the banned substance list.
Traditionalists will still side w/ the No's. The strict constructionalists will side with the Yes's.
(Not using those terms in a political way at all. GBA!)
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The cream and the clear weren't on the banned substance list.
Traditionalists will still side w/ the No's. The strict constructionalists will side with the Yes's.
(Not using those terms in a political way at all. GBA!)
I’d be curious why you say that if the rules were plain as day at what is and isn’t allowed. Doesn’t that feed into the constructionist mindset?
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I’d be curious why you say that if the rules were plain as day at what is and isn’t allowed. Doesn’t that feed into the constructionist mindset?
Baseball traditionalists still think that the game is a gentleman's affair in the 1900s. Honor and the rules are everything. (Prob could put TGFIBs here, but one of their own was a user.)
The strict constructionalists would say "hey, the weren't banned substances in the late 90s, early 2000s, so the game allowed it, so their stats and records count.
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Oh playoff Kershaw...happened again.
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What about the Juicers?
A lot of nuance there. Some were proven to have done it, but some only innuendo. Some very good evidence, some less so. Some didn't start juicing (allegedly) until well after they had established themselves as Hall-worthy, some wouldn't have sniffed Hall-worthy stats without roids.
Interestingly, neither the Hall of Fame nor the commissioner's office nor the BBWAA gives voters any guidelines on juicing. They leave it to us to come to our own conclusions.
Of course, well down on the list of rules, it says:
Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
Obviously, one could instantly DQ any juicer based on lack of integrity, sportsmanship and character. Then again, there are racists, wife-beaters, adulterers, drunks and other assorted miscreants in the Hall. (And that's just the media wing - ha!)
Over the years, most voters have not given the integrity/character part of the rule anywhere near the weight of the stats/contributions part.
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Holy $hit.
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Holy $hit.
Bye Felicia.
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Bananas, yo!
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Dave Roberts: great, great teacher of the game. Turrible, turrible manager.
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Biggest choke job in NL history? Go Natty's.
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Biggest choke job in NL history? Go Natty's.
Nah. Dodgers weren’t that great to begin with. Otherwise it wouldn’t have went to 5.
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Anybody but the Doyers....wish granted and a Doyers vanquished by long time Halo...HOWIE!!!
Going to be a tough day tomorrow for Angelinos here.
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@mu82
Yes or no to Rose
YES
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Good morning Cub Fans. And assorted other fans as well.
It's a great day in the neighborhood.
How many of you on June 15th would have predicted the NLCS would begin in St. Louis and include the Washington Nationals?
And that the Cubs would be hibernating and the Dodgers would be thinking about firing their manager?
Give the Cardinals a lot of credit. They played well in the second half of the season. And their pitching is young and, well, really good. The biggest questions: Can they hit and will Carlos Martinez become the latter day version of Joaquin Andjuar?
In the meantime, this is fun because it was soooooo unexpected!
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I wonder what Dodgers fans think of Clayton Kershaw. As great as he has been in his career, he has come up small in a ton of big spots in the postseason.
As good as Roger Clemens was in his prime with the Red Sox, Red Sox fans never had confidence in him pitch well in a big postseason game. I only know one big Dodgers fan, and he feels the same way about Kershaw. Going into this series, he told me he was glad they didn't start him in game 1, so he'd only have a chance to blow one game.
Cheeks, is that the feeling in LA?
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Give me the all-Montreal series. Ex-Expos vs. Future Expos.
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Give me the all-Montreal series. Ex-Expos vs. Future Expos.
OK, I like that one! A lot.
Aint gonna happen but it's a hilarious thought!
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I wonder what Dodgers fans think of Clayton Kershaw. As great as he has been in his career, he has come up small in a ton of big spots in the postseason.
As good as Roger Clemens was in his prime with the Red Sox, Red Sox fans never had confidence in him pitch well in a big postseason game. I only know one big Dodgers fan, and he feels the same way about Kershaw. Going into this series, he told me he was glad they didn't start him in game 1, so he'd only have a chance to blow one game.
Cheeks, is that the feeling in LA?
Clemons only pitched good in the postseason in pinstripes.
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Good morning Cub Fans. And assorted other fans as well.
It's a great day in the neighborhood.
How many of you on June 15th would have predicted the NLCS would begin in St. Louis and include the Washington Nationals?
And that the Cubs would be hibernating and the Dodgers would be thinking about firing their manager?
Give the Cardinals a lot of credit. They played well in the second half of the season. And their pitching is young and, well, really good. The biggest questions: Can they hit and will Carlos Martinez become the latter day version of Joaquin Andjuar?
In the meantime, this is fun because it was soooooo unexpected!
We are all at Murphy's drinking to avian flu and Davey Martinez.
As to unexpected, PECOTA was pretty close in February on the Cubs. Good luck. Don't fall off your perch.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/people-want-answers-after-bay-area-tv-station-uses-racist-headline-to-cover-braves-nlds-loss-033047397.html
I saw the headline, and I immediately thought this was going to be some TV station from either the deep south or Madison. But seriously? KTVU... as in the Bay Area's own KTVU... as in the Bay Area of San Francisco/San Jose/Oakland.
How TF did someone in California - in San Francisco, no less - get it through their head that this was a clever idea? Nothing like a few brownouts to bring out the cultural insensitivity in people, I guess.
(Of course, I ask this rhetorically... my guess is the producer that put this graphic up isn't your stereotypical racist white male; although I could be wrong, methinks were about to get a Jameela Jamil-style "I had no idea/didn't study American History" excuse within the next day or two.)
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Good morning Cub Fans. And assorted other fans as well.
It's a great day in the neighborhood.
How many of you on June 15th would have predicted the NLCS would begin in St. Louis and include the Washington Nationals?
And that the Cubs would be hibernating and the Dodgers would be thinking about firing their manager?
Give the Cardinals a lot of credit. They played well in the second half of the season. And their pitching is young and, well, really good. The biggest questions: Can they hit and will Carlos Martinez become the latter day version of Joaquin Andjuar?
In the meantime, this is fun because it was soooooo unexpected!
Completely on brand.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/people-want-answers-after-bay-area-tv-station-uses-racist-headline-to-cover-braves-nlds-loss-033047397.html
I saw the headline, and I immediately thought this was going to be some TV station from either the deep south or Madison. But seriously? KTVU... as in the Bay Area's own KTVU... as in the Bay Area of San Francisco/San Jose/Oakland.
How TF did someone in California - in San Francisco, no less - get it through their head that this was a clever idea? Nothing like a few brownouts to bring out the cultural insensitivity in people, I guess.
(Of course, I ask this rhetorically... my guess is the producer that put this graphic up isn't your stereotypical racist white male; although I could be wrong, methinks were about to get a Jameela Jamil-style "I had no idea/didn't study American History" excuse within the next day or two.)
Not the first time this news station has done something like this.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/KTVU-producers-fired-over-Asiana-pilots-fake-4685627.php (https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/KTVU-producers-fired-over-Asiana-pilots-fake-4685627.php)
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https://sports.yahoo.com/people-want-answers-after-bay-area-tv-station-uses-racist-headline-to-cover-braves-nlds-loss-033047397.html
I saw the headline, and I immediately thought this was going to be some TV station from either the deep south or Madison. But seriously? KTVU... as in the Bay Area's own KTVU... as in the Bay Area of San Francisco/San Jose/Oakland.
How TF did someone in California - in San Francisco, no less - get it through their head that this was a clever idea? Nothing like a few brownouts to bring out the cultural insensitivity in people, I guess.
(Of course, I ask this rhetorically... my guess is the producer that put this graphic up isn't your stereotypical racist white male; although I could be wrong, methinks were about to get a Jameela Jamil-style "I had no idea/didn't study American History" excuse within the next day or two.)
Gaming reference? (Teal Train]
https://runescape.wiki/w/Wyrm_scalp
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There are no restrictions on stupid. Not location, gender, ethnicity, political affiliation. This is stupid.
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There are no restrictions on stupid. Not location, gender, ethnicity, political affiliation. This is stupid.
Right? Shockingly to some, liberal coastal residents can be just as racist as backwoods, rural gun toting Southerners can be tolerant and accepting.
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Probably get less of that if they dropped the native imagery.
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How many of you on June 15th would have predicted the NLCS would begin in St. Louis and include the Washington Nationals?
On June 15, the Cubs were tied for 1st with the Brewers, and 3.5 games in front of the Cardinals. Many, many predicted the Cards would be ahead of the Cubs.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D074XZSWwAEvxfm?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7915/40517340803_1b65fc30e9_c.jpg)
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I wonder what Dodgers fans think of Clayton Kershaw. As great as he has been in his career, he has come up small in a ton of big spots in the postseason.
As good as Roger Clemens was in his prime with the Red Sox, Red Sox fans never had confidence in him pitch well in a big postseason game. I only know one big Dodgers fan, and he feels the same way about Kershaw. Going into this series, he told me he was glad they didn't start him in game 1, so he'd only have a chance to blow one game.
Cheeks, is that the feeling in LA?
It has been a crazy day here today. Much of the town is sad for Kershaw, but a healthy dose are angry. They are spending a lot on him, but he continues to struggle in big games. The morning sports shows were teeing off on him.
But mostly they were attacking Roberts for putting him into the situation in the first place. I would say 70% to 80% of calls want Roberts gone after the last few years decisions coupled with last night’s loss.
Mike Scioscia back in the fold? Joe Maddon?
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Probably get less of that if they dropped the native imagery.
Why, native Americans overwhelmingly support the imagery.
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I don’t know why pitching Verlander on short rest is a mistake. You have Cole waiting to go game 5. I would do the same thing. You’re more likely to win one of the next 2 games when the pitchers are Verlander (even on short rest) and Cole vs. going Miley and Verlander with Cole available out of the pen. I think it was the smart move.
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Right? Shockingly to some, liberal coastal residents can be just as racist as backwoods, rural gun toting Southerners can be tolerant and accepting.
It can be causal or correlation, but still, there’s a big difference between racist and stupid.
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Right? Shockingly to some, liberal coastal residents can be just as racist as backwoods, rural gun toting Southerners can be tolerant and accepting.
Just to add a bit of humor ...
https://crooksandliars.com/2019/10/georgia-republicans-blame-baseball-loss
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Just to add a bit of humor ...
https://crooksandliars.com/2019/10/georgia-republicans-blame-baseball-loss
Reminds me of this
https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/girl-gets-offended-at-braves-game-because-of-a-kkk-sign-recording-the-number-of-strike-outs
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/11/this-is-an-excellent-social-justice-warrior-tweet.html
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Reminds me of this
https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/girl-gets-offended-at-braves-game-because-of-a-kkk-sign-recording-the-number-of-strike-outs
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/11/this-is-an-excellent-social-justice-warrior-tweet.html
They aren't really similar whatsoever, actually.
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I saw Rob Arthur's tweet explanation before I read the article, but he presents some really convincing evidence that MLB is using an "unjuiced" baseball for the playoffs - https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/54306/moonshot-the-rocket-ball-has-disappeared-in-october/ (https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/54306/moonshot-the-rocket-ball-has-disappeared-in-october/)
Manfred's response, which can't really be taken at more than face value at this point on the baseball issue, seems to deny the ball is different but does leave some wiggle room to change his position later imho:
The baseballs used in Major League Baseball are manufactured in batches. Balls that are used in the Postseason are pulled from the same batches as balls used in the regular season. Regular season and Postseason balls are manufactured with the same materials and under the same processes. The only difference is the Postseason stamp that is placed on the ball. As has been previously acknowledged, however, the drag of the baseball can very over different time periods.
Of course the small playoff sample size will always make this impossible to prove, but what a mess.
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They aren't really similar whatsoever, actually.
Oh sure they are. Both related to baseball. Both showing how stupid people can be from both sides. Lots of similarities.
Have a great day.
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I saw Rob Arthur's tweet explanation before I read the article, but he presents some really convincing evidence that MLB is using an "unjuiced" baseball for the playoffs - https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/54306/moonshot-the-rocket-ball-has-disappeared-in-october/ (https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/54306/moonshot-the-rocket-ball-has-disappeared-in-october/)
Manfred's response, which can't really be taken at more than face value at this point on the baseball issue, seems to deny the ball is different but does leave some wiggle room to change his position later imho:
Of course the small playoff sample size will always make this impossible to prove, but what a mess.
Playoffs will have better teams with better pitching. Weather starts to cool down and balls don’t travel as far then in the heat. Lots of variables, but I would add those two to the discussion.
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Ball didnt look dead last for Brantley and Altuve. Especially Altuve, that dude is an amazing batter.
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I saw Rob Arthur's tweet explanation before I read the article, but he presents some really convincing evidence that MLB is using an "unjuiced" baseball for the playoffs - https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/54306/moonshot-the-rocket-ball-has-disappeared-in-october/ (https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/54306/moonshot-the-rocket-ball-has-disappeared-in-october/)
Manfred's response, which can't really be taken at more than face value at this point on the baseball issue, seems to deny the ball is different but does leave some wiggle room to change his position later imho:
Of course the small playoff sample size will always make this impossible to prove, but what a mess.
I’ll ignore the “deep” responses to your post.
But AAA pitchers noticed that the ball chaned in August - both the texture and the height of the seams. The belief that the ball has been deadened is based on evidence of the distance a ball should normally travel when hit at a particular angle at a particular speed. Not because there are better pitchers come playoff time. That is a given.
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Playoffs will have better teams with better pitching. Weather starts to cool down and balls don’t travel as far then in the heat. Lots of variables, but I would add those two to the discussion.
Definitely two good points - though Arthur tries to address the temp issue. The average game tempoerature in the playoffs has oddly been warmer than the average regular season game temp. Though my read is that the sample size monster creeps in there, too. Its surely been cooler than the July, August, September temps, plus the two sluggiest teams in the playoffs played the only northern series (Min and NYY).
I'd love to see him get into the pitching issue - I'm honestly not sure of the impact (if any, to Jockey's point) of RPs pitching such short durations that they always have their best stuff (particulalry breaking stuff). Arthur's analysis uses only batted ball data (velocity, launch angle, park factor) to calculate drag, and the reduction in drag is canary in the coalmine for the juiced ball conlcusion (which Manfred had to be dragged kicking and screaming to admit in June). So if you've got RPs only throwing nasty breaking balls, I'm not sure if that impacts drag calcluations. FWIW, Arthur says that the chances of him pulling a random sample from regular season stats that are in line with the playoff numbers are literally 1 in 1,000, but that only factors in the hard numbers - not if there are underlying causes to why playoff numbers would be different.
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Oh sure they are. Both related to baseball. Both showing how stupid people can be from both sides. Lots of similarities.
Have a great day.
Nope.
One example is a woman who doesn't know that "K" is the notation for swinging strikeout. The other is a bunch of white people whining that they can't use a racist gesture. The very fact that you tried to pretend that these are equivalent is so very, very chicosesque.
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Nope.
One example is a woman who doesn't know that "K" is the notation for swinging strikeout. The other is a bunch of white people whining that they can't use a racist gesture. The very fact that you tried to pretend that these are equivalent is so very, very chicosesque.
Actually I posted multiple examples of SJW’s not knowing what K is in baseball and rushing to judgment of racism as a result. Dumb. Meanwhile, with the Braves game equally dumb that they lost because of a styrofoam tomahawk not being used.
Dumb people on both sides, each on opposite sides of the spectrum commenting about baseball.
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I’ll ignore the “deep” responses to your post.
But AAA pitchers noticed that the ball chaned in August - both the texture and the height of the seams. The belief that the ball has been deadened is based on evidence of the distance a ball should normally travel when hit at a particular angle at a particular speed. Not because there are better pitchers come playoff time. That is a given.
Actually pitchers are better, and the reasoning is simple.
In the regular season you face 5 man rotations. Thus far through the playoffs teams are facing top 3 in the rotation. The elimination of the 4th and 5th starter means the best pitchers are pitching. The same is true for the bullpens where relievers are asked to go two innings, whereas in the regular season would be one inning.
Straight forward, very easy logic. Sorry it escapes you.
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Actually I posted multiple examples of SJW’s not knowing what K is in baseball and rushing to judgment of racism as a result. Dumb. Meanwhile, with the Braves game equally dumb that they lost because of a styrofoam tomahawk not being used.
Dumb people on both sides, each on opposite sides of the spectrum commenting about baseball.
Oh boy...you have officially jumped the shark.
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Oh boy...you have officially jumped the shark.
Jockey, trying to be clever and smart, posts an article to bash a group he hates from a website that supports his view points ideologically. Of course, most people with a brain who haven’t jumped the shark knew exactly what he was doing and call him out by posting links doing the same thing exposing idiots from the opposite side. Both baseball related. Really not hard. Everyone knew what Jockey was doing.
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Actually pitchers are better, and the reasoning is simple.
In the regular season you face 5 man rotations. Thus far through the playoffs teams are facing top 3 in the rotation. The elimination of the 4th and 5th starter means the best pitchers are pitching. The same is true for the bullpens where relievers are asked to go two innings, whereas in the regular season would be one inning.
Straight forward, very easy logic. Sorry it escapes you.
Huh? We just saw the #4 pitcher for the Nats go 7 2/3 innings of 1 hit ball.
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Huh? We just saw the #4 pitcher for the Nats go 7 2/3 innings of 1 hit ball.
Yeah, and an "opener" started game 4 for the Rays against Verlander and the Astros - and the Rays won!
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Huh? We just saw the #4 pitcher for the Nats go 7 2/3 innings of 1 hit ball.
Sigh. The article was written before the ALCS or NLCS even started...yes or no? I believe only one or two starts were done by a 4th starter in all the games pitched in the wild card or DS. There is a reason why a Scherzer and Strasborg were brought in to relieve rather than the normal guys...they are better pitchers. This is what I said, better pitchers are pitching now.
Are you really going to suggest at this time of year the rotations aren’t shortened and the bullpens as well?
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Sigh. The article was written before the ALCS or NLCS even started...yes or no? I believe only one or two starts were done by a 4th starter in all the games pitched in the wild card or DS. There is a reason why a Scherzer and Strasborg were brought in to relieve rather than the normal guys...they are better pitchers. This is what I said, better pitchers are pitching now.
Are you really going to suggest at this time of year the rotations aren’t shortened and the bullpens as well?
So you’re flipping your (obviously correct, because you know how to handle a team you’ve never worked with better than a manager who’s been nothing but incredible) decision from last year and now think that Counsell SHOULD have been throwing his best reliever more innings in the Playoffs?
And I don’t know when the article was written. I know when your post stating we have seen the elimination of the #4 and #5 starters from Playoff rotations, right after a number 4 starter was flirting with a Playoff no-no.
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So you’re flipping your (obviously correct, because you know how to handle a team you’ve never worked with better than a manager who’s been nothing but incredible) decision from last year and now think that Counsell SHOULD have been throwing his best reliever more innings in the Playoffs?
And I don’t know when the article was written. I know when your post stating we have seen the elimination of the #4 and #5 starters from Playoff rotations, right after a number 4 starter was flirting with a Playoff no-no.
When did I say anything about Counsell? The article was posted here a few days ago, before the CS started. If you had bothered to click on it you would see the date was Oct 10th the article was written.
Yes or no, are pitching rotations shortened this time of year? Yes or no, do #5 starters ever start in the playoffs? Yes or no, are #4 starters used less than they are in the reg season? This isn’t hard...better pitchers are used now than in regular season, thus that is one reason fewer home runs.
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When did I say anything about Counsell? The article was posted here a few days ago, before the CS started. If you had bothered to click on it you would see the date was Oct 10th the article was written.
Yes or no, are pitching rotations shortened this time of year? Yes or no, do #5 starters ever start in the playoffs? Yes or no, are #4 starters used less than they are in the reg season? This isn’t hard...better pitchers are used now than in regular season, thus that is one reason fewer home runs.
Got it, #4s aren’t eliminated like you claimed.
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Got it, #4s aren’t eliminated like you claimed.
I’m glad we agree that better pitchers are pitching now, and Jockey can go back to MLB playing with the balls theory. Also glad to see your claim I said anything about Counsell and pitching was BS and your silence confirms it. Got it.
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I’m glad we agree that better pitchers are pitching now, and Jockey can go back to MLB playing with the balls theory. Also glad to see your claim I said anything about Counsell and pitching was BS and your silence confirms it. Got it.
Yeah, you definitely couldn’t stop talking about Counsell’s mismanagement of his bullpen as he led his team 1 game from the World Series. Battles and wars ring a bell? Or did hoopaloop get your phone again?
Anyways, the pretzels are twisting again. Numbers 4 and 5 in the rotations disappear, Cheeks says. Anibal Sanchez waves hello, and another pretzel is made!
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Yeah, you definitely couldn’t stop talking about Counsell’s mismanagement of his bullpen as he led his team 1 game from the World Series. Battles and wars ring a bell? Or did hoopaloop get your phone again?
Source? Couldn’t stop talking about it? Source?
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Chico’s is trying to destroy another baseball thread. I said I would end this thread before he made it unreadable again. We are getting close o that point.
Just get back on your meds and go away.
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Chico’s is trying to destroy another baseball thread. I said I would end this thread before he made it unreadable again. We are getting close o that point.
Just get back on your meds and go away.
I’m not ending or destroying anything. Whenever someone disagrees with you, this is the mode you get into. Then the name calling, the meds nonsense, etc.
Jockey, from a baseball perspective...do you think it is at all possible that as the weather cools in October, the pitchers hitters face, the pressure, etc, probably has an impact on dingers...or is it simply the ball?
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https://twitter.com/TJQuinnESPN/status/1183099369144360963?s=19
Oof
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https://twitter.com/TJQuinnESPN/status/1183099369144360963?s=19
Oof
That's a freakin' shame.
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I’m not ending or destroying anything. Whenever someone disagrees with you, this is the mode you get into. Then the name calling, the meds nonsense, etc.
Jockey, from a baseball perspective...do you think it is at all possible that as the weather cools in October, the pitchers hitters face, the pressure, etc, probably has an impact on dingers...or is it simply the ball?
#1. The average temp in the playoffs is warmer than the average temp during the regular season.
#2. The quality of pitching is irrelevant. This is Not about the quantity of HRs hit. It is about how far batted balls travel at certain launch angles at a certain velocity off of the bat. A ball hit at a 27 degree angle coming off the bat at 105mph is not traveling as far as it did during the regular season.
The manager of the Cardinals stated yesterday that the ball is deader than what was used all year. Pitchers and hitters in AAA both noticed, starting in August that their ball was deadened. AAA used the same ball as MLB this year until it changed in August.
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dgies still post heer, hey?
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#1. The average temp in the playoffs is warmer than the average temp during the regular season.
#2. The quality of pitching is irrelevant. This is Not about the quantity of HRs hit. It is about how far batted balls travel at certain launch angles at a certain velocity off of the bat. A ball hit at a 27 degree angle coming off the bat at 105mph is not traveling as far as it did during the regular season.
The manager of the Cardinals stated yesterday that the ball is deader than what was used all year. Pitchers and hitters in AAA both noticed, starting in August that their ball was deadened. AAA used the same ball as MLB this year until it changed in August.
#1 Extremely small sample size for the playoffs vs the regular season. Let's also not forget stadiums are not uniform distance for home runs. So you also need to look at the ballparks in all of this. And it's not just about temperature. In So. Cal we have the marine layer, you have winds to deal with, etc...temperature is one variable, but as well all know it can be 80 degrees and wind blowing in, 80 degrees and win blowing out....that makes a difference...right? Etc, etc.
The ball is "supposedly" traveling 4.5 feet shorter in the playoffs...based on analytics done by one team. The quality of the pitching is irrelevant? How on earth can you say this. There's a reason why certain pitchers only give up a handful of home runs or deep fly balls are not the norm vs majority ground ball outs, strike outs. The quality makes a huge difference. Staggering that you would suggest otherwise.
Every few years this conspiracy stuff comes up. Between launch angles, steroids, HGH, weather, closing the roof on stadiums, there is always all kinds of people making claims...including the mud on the balls, the stitch height, how tightly wound the core is, etc, etc. Yet in all this time, I have yet to ever (correct me if I am wrong) hear of some factory employee at Rawlings or some exec say things are changed. Seems like a disgruntled employee would come clean on this at some point. Baseballs are made in batches, they try to make them uniform. Are some batches different than others...yes. Is it done purposely? Where's the evidence?
The manager of the Cardinals might want to get his guys even to try getting a hit of any kind, let alone a home run at this point.
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#1 Extremely small sample size for the playoffs vs the regular season. Let's also not forget stadiums are not uniform distance for home runs. So you also need to look at the ballparks in all of this. And it's not just about temperature. In So. Cal we have the marine layer, you have winds to deal with, etc...temperature is one variable, but as well all know it can be 80 degrees and wind blowing in, 80 degrees and win blowing out....that makes a difference...right? Etc, etc.
The ball is "supposedly" traveling 4.5 feet shorter in the playoffs...based on analytics done by one team. The quality of the pitching is irrelevant? How on earth can you say this. There's a reason why certain pitchers only give up a handful of home runs or deep fly balls are not the norm vs majority ground ball outs, strike outs. The quality makes a huge difference. Staggering that you would suggest otherwise.
NM
I won’t argue just for the sake of arguing.
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2019 Ballparks yielding home runs (per Park Factors on ESPN). 10 of the playoff games thus far have been in parks that favor the pitcher and gave up fewer home runs than the average park. Including 4 of the bottom 7 teams. Conversely only 2 of the top 7 ballparks hosted games.
Nationals 2nd most (2 games)
Astros 6th most (3 games)
Dodgers 9th most (3 games)
Rays 19th most (2 games)
Twins 24th most (1 game)
Yankees 25th most (2 games)
A's 26th most (1 game)
Cardinals 27th most (4 games)
http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor
Pitching. Walker Bueller pitched 2 of the 5 Dodger games, Cole and Verlander pitched 4 of the 5 Astros games. Scherzer and Strasburg pitched 4 of 6 games (Wild card and NLDS), etc, etc. It makes a difference. In the regular season, Bueller would have pitched 1, Cole and Verlander 2 and same for Scherzer.
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#1 Extremely small sample size for the playoffs vs the regular season. Let's also not forget stadiums are not uniform distance for home runs. So you also need to look at the ballparks in all of this. And it's not just about temperature. In So. Cal we have the marine layer, you have winds to deal with, etc...temperature is one variable, but as well all know it can be 80 degrees and wind blowing in, 80 degrees and win blowing out....that makes a difference...right? Etc, etc.
The ball is "supposedly" traveling 4.5 feet shorter in the playoffs...based on analytics done by one team. The quality of the pitching is irrelevant? How on earth can you say this. There's a reason why certain pitchers only give up a handful of home runs or deep fly balls are not the norm vs majority ground ball outs, strike outs. The quality makes a huge difference. Staggering that you would suggest otherwise.
Every few years this conspiracy stuff comes up. Between launch angles, steroids, HGH, weather, closing the roof on stadiums, there is always all kinds of people making claims...including the mud on the balls, the stitch height, how tightly wound the core is, etc, etc. Yet in all this time, I have yet to ever (correct me if I am wrong) hear of some factory employee at Rawlings or some exec say things are changed. Seems like a disgruntled employee would come clean on this at some point. Baseballs are made in batches, they try to make them uniform. Are some batches different than others...yes. Is it done purposely? Where's the evidence?
The manager of the Cardinals might want to get his guys even to try getting a hit of any kind, let alone a home run at this point.
2019 Ballparks yielding home runs (per Park Factors on ESPN). 10 of the playoff games thus far have been in parks that favor the pitcher and gave up fewer home runs than the average park. Including 4 of the bottom 7 teams. Conversely only 2 of the top 7 ballparks hosted games.
Nationals 2nd most (2 games)
Astros 6th most (3 games)
Dodgers 9th most (3 games)
Rays 19th most (2 games)
Twins 24th most (1 game)
Yankees 25th most (2 games)
A's 26th most (1 game)
Cardinals 27th most (4 games)
http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor
Pitching. Walker Bueller pitched 2 of the 5 Dodger games, Cole and Verlander pitched 4 of the 5 Astros games. Scherzer and Strasburg pitched 4 of 6 games (Wild card and NLDS), etc, etc. It makes a difference. In the regular season, Bueller would have pitched 1, Cole and Verlander 2 and same for Scherzer.
#mathishard
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#mathishard
So is coming up with all of those Counsell posts I didn't make you claimed I did.
Be sure to explain where I got it wrong on the "mathishard" part.
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NM
I won’t argue just for the sake of arguing.
[/quote
It's ok. I took my wife to dinner tonight, we had ESPN on in the car listening to the Yankees broadcast...she's a huge baseball fan. They were talking about this topic and the broadcasters were poking holes in it regarding the pitching as well as weather. It made me smile. The one guy was saying he did think the balls were falling a little flat, the very next batter for the Yankees hit a homerun which caused the play by play guy to rib him.
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So is coming up with all of those Counsell posts I didn't make you claimed I did.
Be sure to explain where I got it wrong on the "mathishard" part.
He explained it. You don’t understand. I’ll try to explain it. You won’t understand. Math is very hard for you.
Every piece of contact has an angle the ball is launched at and an exit velocity the ball exits off the bat at. Balls with the same exit velocity and launch angle are traveling shorter in the post season, despite warmer temperatures (which you incorrectly claimed was colder weather’s fault) than they were in the regular season. Quality of pitcher/pitch, ballpark dimensions, etc. don’t matter one iota to the discussion. Distance traveled compared to launch angle and exit velocity. It’s simple math. Which you don’t understand. It’s okay.
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He explained it. You don’t understand. I’ll try to explain it. You won’t understand. Math is very hard for you.
Every piece of contact has an angle the ball is launched at and an exit velocity the ball exits off the bat at. Balls with the same exit velocity and launch angle are traveling shorter in the post season, despite warmer temperatures (which you incorrectly claimed was colder weather’s fault) than they were in the regular season. Quality of pitcher/pitch, ballpark dimensions, etc. don’t matter one iota to the discussion. Distance traveled compared to launch angle and exit velocity. It’s simple math. Which you don’t understand. It’s okay.
No, it really isn’t. Weather Temperature, humidity, wind), etc all influence. Night games, day games, velocity of pitch, spin rate of pitch. Some great counter arguments all over Internet today, including a few PhDs that properly argue the tools to determine bay speed, launch angle, etc are error prone just as radar guns measuring speed have a +/- of several mph. With every variable comes less certainty.
Math isn’t hard, believing that the data is iron clad to come up with these results without factoring in error rates, weather, etc...is. Thanks.
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No, it really isn’t. Weather Temperature, humidity, wind), etc all influence. Night games, day games, velocity of pitch, spin rate of pitch. Some great counter arguments all over Internet today, including a few PhDs that properly argue the tools to determine bay speed, launch angle, etc are error prone just as radar guns measuring speed have a +/- of several mph. With every variable comes less certainty.
Math isn’t hard, believing that the data is iron clad to come up with these results without factoring in error rates, weather, etc...is. Thanks.
Spin rate, velocity, etc. all contribute to...you guessed it, the exit velocity and launch angle. Those are the two factors that matter here.
Weather has been...warmer. So when you believed the weather would help your argument it was an all important factor. When you found out the fact that the weather hurt your argument it became too small of a sample size to take into consideration. Weird how that works.
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Chico’s is trying to destroy another baseball thread. I said I would end this thread before he made it unreadable again. We are getting close o that point.
Just get back on your meds and go away.
Not quite. He's actually trying to destroy Scoop (along with a few others). I come here far less often. I'm sure others are the same. It's a shame really.
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Not quite. He's actually trying to destroy Scoop (along with a few others). I come here far less often. I'm sure others are the same. It's a shame really.
Yep, it’s beyond ignore at this point.
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OK, I will no longer reply to him nor will I call him out. Completely ignore is what I will do.
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OK, I will no longer reply to him nor will I call him out. Completely ignore is what I will do.
For the love of ones higher ppwer, posters need to stop quoting him as well.
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Lots of "Chico obsession" here. Where is Fluffy to call all of you guys out and claiming Chico is inhabiting a large part of your brains?
FWIW, Wades, Jockey, Glow and others are 100% correct on substance (math) here. Doesn't matter, of course. Chico will do what he always does - move the goal posts, obfuscate, change the argument, etc. - anything to not admit the obvious - that he is provably wrong. Sorry, there I go again. Fluffy will say I'm "obsessed" and that Chico inhabits a large place in my brain. Sorry.
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Lots of "Chico obsession" here. Where is Fluffy to call all of you guys out and claiming Chico is inhabiting a large part of your brains?
FWIW, Wades, Jockey, Glow and others are 100% correct on substance (math) here. Doesn't matter, of course. Chico will do what he always does - move the goal posts, obfuscate, change the argument, etc. - anything to not admit the obvious - that he is provably wrong. Sorry, there I go again. Fluffy will say I'm "obsessed" and that Chico inhabits a large place in my brain. Sorry.
He does. It’s obvious. Stop responding to his every post
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Not quite. He's actually trying to destroy Scoop (along with a few others). I come here far less often. I'm sure others are the same. It's a shame really.
It’s too bad. There are some really good discussions here before he destroys them.
At least he hasn’t destroyed your recruiting thread. That’s the first thing I check every day on Scoop.
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Not quite. He's actually trying to destroy Scoop (along with a few others). I come here far less often. I'm sure others are the same. It's a shame really.
I agree with this analysis.
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A Statistician weighed in on the thread on Twitter and MLB reddit.
Comparing 2430 MLB regular season games vs only 16 playoff games (when the article was released) is statistically laughable. He / she used more appropriate words. Statistical significance to compare the two cohorts is not appropriate and would require wild extrapolations.
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Not quite. He's actually trying to destroy Scoop (along with a few others). I come here far less often. I'm sure others are the same. It's a shame really.
Care to expand? What makes you think he's trying to destroy the board? That seems to imply intent, rather than just unknowingly doing it. Who are the others?
Most importantly, is there another online community you frequent more?
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A Statistician weighed in on the thread on Twitter and MLB reddit.
Comparing 2430 MLB regular season games vs only 16 playoff games (when the article was released) is statistically laughable. He / she used more appropriate words. Statistical significance to compare the two cohorts is not appropriate and would require wild extrapolations.
So you were willing to argue your point despite the too small sample size...until you realized everyone knew you had it wrong. So now the argument is inconclusive due to the insignificant sample size.
Never change Cheeks (but please change usernames when this one, like 4 or 5 others of yours, get permabanned).
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Not quite. He's actually trying to destroy Scoop (along with a few others). I come here far less often. I'm sure others are the same. It's a shame really.
I'm trying to destroy Scoop, give me a break Glow. Absolutely not the case.
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Lots of "Chico obsession" here. Where is Fluffy to call all of you guys out and claiming Chico is inhabiting a large part of your brains?
FWIW, Wades, Jockey, Glow and others are 100% correct on substance (math) here. Doesn't matter, of course. Chico will do what he always does - move the goal posts, obfuscate, change the argument, etc. - anything to not admit the obvious - that he is provably wrong. Sorry, there I go again. Fluffy will say I'm "obsessed" and that Chico inhabits a large place in my brain. Sorry.
Statisticians, in fact, saying you are wrong on the math.
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So you were willing to argue your point despite the too small sample size...until you realized everyone knew you had it wrong. So now the argument is inconclusive due to the insignificant sample size.
Never change Cheeks (but please change usernames when this one, like 4 or 5 others of yours, get permabanned).
My point remains and from the beginning, I said the small sample size was an issue...and so were the other issues. It's been fun watching real statisticians, etc, take these ridiculous arguments to the woodshed on the internet. Enough where the author has actually conceded on some points. But in having a discussion, that isn't allowed? To question those results, or is it because of who is questioning them?
Where are all those Counsell posts you mentioned? See, you were wrong, they don't exist...I call you out on it like you call me, and nothing. Interesting.
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My point remains and from the beginning, I said the small sample size was an issue...and so were the other issues. It's been fun watching real statisticians, etc, take these ridiculous arguments to the woodshed on the internet. Enough where the author has actually conceded on some points. But in having a discussion, that isn't allowed? To question those results, or is it because of who is questioning them?
Where are all those Counsell posts you mentioned? See, you were wrong, they don't exist...I call you out on it like you call me, and nothing. Interesting.
See the 2018 MLB thread. You're not this stupid. But you would rather appear to be this stupid than admit, "Hey, I don't know what I'm talking about, that's my bad."
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See the 2018 MLB thread. You're not this stupid. But you would rather appear to be this stupid than admit, "Hey, I don't know what I'm talking about, that's my bad."
Can you provide a link for me, that would be great. I am not going to search for it and since it was constant weighing in, shouldn’t take you long. Much appreciated.
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Can you provide a link for me, that would be great. I am not going to search for it and since it was constant weighing in, shouldn’t take you long. Much appreciated.
Lol shouldn’t take long but you don’t want to put in the work. You don’t have time for Scoop, you’re going to limit your appearances like you’ve said you’d be doing since your first post as “Cheeks.”
5,000 posts later...
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I am again going to try to ignore this irritant who has been permanently banned multiple times.
It isn't easy, as he is constantly quoted, and he lies and/or misrepresents what so many say that we feel compelled to set the record straight. But I am going to try.
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I am again going to try to ignore this irritant who has been permanently banned multiple times.
It isn't easy, as he is constantly quoted, and he lies and/or misrepresents what so many say that we feel compelled to set the record straight. But I am going to try.
See Wades, this was a simple thing to do.
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So, Correa had himself a game. Will St. Louis be able to take the curse off their bats on the road? You know, baseball.
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So, Correa had himself a game. Will St. Louis be able to take the curse off their bats on the road? You know, baseball.
St. Louis couldn't ask for much more from Mikolas or Wainwright. Before leaving Wainwright in the game a batter too long and not guarding the line in a one run 8th inning game, he had gone 15 playoff innings, 1 run, 19 K's. In their 3 Atlanta wins their team provided offense and in the two losses they did not. The bad news for Flaherty today is he received top 5 worst league run supoort this year. The good news for him s he had 13 his last start. .....Baseball. Stl native Scherzer was lit up for 5 runs in 6 plus innings v Stl a few weeks ago but he was great the other day. Same for Strasburg. St. Louis will have to take 2 of 3 to keep it going. We'll see.
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I had to go to bed. These 5 hours games are too much.
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Kapler is one of the 2 finalists for the Cubs job. Astros bench coach Espada is the other finalist and is interviewing today. As a Brewers fan, I may break a finger crossing them so hard hoping they hire Kapler.
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Kapler is one of the 2 finalists for the Cubs job. Astros bench coach Espada is the other finalist and is interviewing today. As a Brewers fan, I may break a finger crossing them so hard hoping they hire Kapler.
Reread the ESPN article, kin. Those 2 are last of the 6 finalists to interview.
Ross, Loretta, girardi and 1 other dude already interviewed.
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Reread the ESPN article, kin. Those 2 are last of the 6 finalists to interview.
Ross, Loretta, girardi and 1 other dude already interviewed.
Misread the meaning of final two candidates in the tweet. I appreciate the correction.
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I would be a little bit surprised if the Cubs did not hire Ross or Loretta.
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I would be a little bit surprised if the Cubs did not hire Ross or Loretta.
Majority of fans seem to want Ross.
He might be an excellent manager. Or not. We'll see!
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Misread the meaning of final two candidates in the tweet. I appreciate the correction.
TBF, ESPN's wording was poor.
But still....sucka! Lol
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St. Louis couldn't ask for much more from Mikolas or Wainwright. Before leaving Wainwright in the game a batter too long and not guarding the line in a one run 8th inning game, he had gone 15 playoff innings, 1 run, 19 K's. In their 3 Atlanta wins their team provided offense and in the two losses they did not. The bad news for Flaherty today is he received top 5 worst league run supoort this year. The good news for him s he had 13 his last start. .....Baseball. Stl native Scherzer was lit up for 5 runs in 6 plus innings v Stl a few weeks ago but he was great the other day. Same for Strasburg. St. Louis will have to take 2 of 3 to keep it going. We'll see.
Yeah, nothing against him personally, but I'll be glad when he finally retires.
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Congrats to the Nats.
I really like their "story" -- very good team for several years that kept finding ways to lose in the postseason (or even to miss it entirely). Their franchise player doesn't just leave, but he goes to a division rival. The rival misses the playoffs while the Nats go to the World Series without him. That's pretty cool.
They now will be able to line up their pitching, and they will not be an easy team for the Astros or Yankees to beat.
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Long layoffs in the playoffs are not your friend. Tiger fan.
Scherzer versus Verlander? I may swear a few times. Also Tiger fan.
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Congrats to the Nats. They were an inning or so from being eliminated by Milwaukee and L.A. They didn’t make many mistakes.
Poorly played series from Stl. 44% of their outs were K’s, often expanding the zone swinging. Some missed opportunities, especially game one, a bit of bad luck (some of the AB’s v Flaherty) .....they scored 26 runs in 5 games v Atlanta, but only a fraction of that v Wash.
The Cardinals have publicly admitted a rare missed opportunity not signing Scherzer in his last contract. It wasn’t a secret he was open to pitching there but it was a big contract at the time. He has outperformed his contract in terms of baseball $.
Any team can and does win in the playoffs. Anything can and does happen. No surprises if any of the 3 remaining teams win it.
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Maddon officially to Angels.
Like all managers, he needs to have talented players to win. But if the Angels give him enough to work with, I'd be surprised if he doesn't do a very good job.
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Pretty funny.
https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1184312387144441856
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Happy to see the Cardinals go out.
I saw a tweet that had Counsell as the fifth longest tenured manager in MLB. I was shocked.
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Maddon officially to Angels.
Like all managers, he needs to have talented players to win. But if the Angels give him enough to work with, I'd be surprised if he doesn't do a very good job.
If the MLB has any integrity, Joe will be dealing with organizational punishment.
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If the MLB has any integrity, Joe will be dealing with organizational punishment.
True enough. Some bad stuff going on in Anaheim.
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True enough. Some bad stuff going on in Anaheim.
Good to see judge and jury have weighed in. Maybe we can wait on how the investigation completes itself.
Kay was there when I was, and he is not exactly the best witness, with reasons to potentially protect himself who is also an addict.
Tim Mead, also there when I was, now President of the Hall of Fame, I honestly have NEVER heard anyone, EVER question his integrity, honesty, etc. Mead said no such conversations happened about Skaggs with Kay.
So let’s see how the investigation plays out. If the org did know, they should be punished. If they didn’t then they shouldn’t...so before we hang them let’s get all the info.
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Joe Girardi just stepped down as manager of USA Baseball. I think the Cubs may have just upgraded their manager.
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Joe Girardi just stepped down as manager of USA Baseball. I think the Cubs may have just upgraded their manager.
Could be the Mets or Phillies too.
Anyway, the Phillies are also interested in Buck Showalter? I mean come on...
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Good to see judge and jury have weighed in. Maybe we can wait on how the investigation completes itself.
Kay was there when I was, and he is not exactly the best witness, with reasons to potentially protect himself who is also an addict.
Tim Mead, also there when I was, now President of the Hall of Fame, I honestly have NEVER heard anyone, EVER question his integrity, honesty, etc. Mead said no such conversations happened about Skaggs with Kay.
So let’s see how the investigation plays out. If the org did know, they should be punished. If they didn’t then they shouldn’t...so before we hang them let’s get all the info.
Is Kay not an employee of the LAA? So if he knew about Skagg's drug use then apparently people within the organization knew of Skagg's drug use, given that he's in the organization, no?
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We'll just wait for the other shoe to drop. Squirmy.
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Five years to judge, guys.
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Is Kay not an employee of the LAA? So if he knew about Skagg's drug use then apparently people within the organization knew of Skagg's drug use, given that he's in the organization, no?
He is currently on leave, and yes an employee. The remarks he and his mother made were others in the organization knew. Maybe they did. If they did, they will have to pay a price.
What I struggle with is Tim Mead is one of those shirt of their back guys. Ironically, he helped out Kay to try and get sober. If he was told by Kay that Skaggs was using, Mead had not only an ethical but fiduciary responsibility to the organization to do something about it. Why on earth would he keep it to himself...not his style at all and not indicative in how he has acted for decades. He would attempt to get him help, as well as protect the club's investment among other things. Now, I could be completely wrong on this and something may come out that nails Mead or others, but for now this is where I struggle because I know Mead and his history. If it were someone else, sure, but doesn't add up. Could be that Kay is feeling the heat and trying to deflect for his role and his own continued addiction problems. I don't know.
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He is currently on leave, and yes an employee. The remarks he and his mother made were others in the organization knew. Maybe they did. If they did, they will have to pay a price.
What I struggle with is Tim Mead is one of those shirt of their back guys. Ironically, he helped out Kay to try and get sober. If he was told by Kay that Skaggs was using, Mead had not only an ethical but fiduciary responsibility to the organization to do something about it. Why on earth would he keep it to himself...not his style at all and not indicative in how he has acted for decades. He would attempt to get him help, as well as protect the club's investment among other things. Now, I could be completely wrong on this and something may come out that nails Mead or others, but for now this is where I struggle because I know Mead and his history. If it were someone else, sure, but doesn't add up. Could be that Kay is feeling the heat and trying to deflect for his role and his own continued addiction problems. I don't know.
I haven’t read everything about the situation, but didn’t Kay admit that he abused oxycodone with Skaggs? That doesn’t seem like he’s deflecting his role or addiction problems to me.
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I haven’t read everything about the situation, but didn’t Kay admit that he abused oxycodone with Skaggs? That doesn’t seem like he’s deflecting his role or addiction problems to me.
He is "coming clean" now. He is claiming the organization knew, and his mother is claiming that she and/or Kay told Mead about Skaggs addiction. That somehow there was a cover-up...or "bad things are happening in Anaheim" which is what I was responding to. It's the word of an addict who could be in serious legal trouble saying this, vs the word of someone that has historically had a very sterling reputation. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, very well could have. To early to judge, let the investigation play out. Both sides could be doing things in their own self interests.
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Good to see judge and jury have weighed in. Maybe we can wait on how the investigation completes itself.
Kay was there when I was, and he is not exactly the best witness, with reasons to potentially protect himself who is also an addict.
Tim Mead, also there when I was, now President of the Hall of Fame, I honestly have NEVER heard anyone, EVER question his integrity, honesty, etc. Mead said no such conversations happened about Skaggs with Kay.
So let’s see how the investigation plays out. If the org did know, they should be punished. If they didn’t then they shouldn’t...so before we hang them let’s get all the info.
Totally agree. Rushing to judgement based on an allegation or something written in the newspaper is patently unfair. Wish you wouldn't have abandoned those principles years ago regarding your school and its successful (too successful for your liking) head coach.
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You guys can blame whomever you want.
I put the blame on the guy who was a user for years.
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MLB looking to shrink the minor leagues by getting rid of 42 teams in rookie and short-season A ball, and reorganizing the leagues entirely.
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/mlb-floats-proposal-that-would-eliminate-42-minor-league-teams/
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That is quite large.
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Totally agree. Rushing to judgement based on an allegation or something written in the newspaper is patently unfair. Wish you wouldn't have abandoned those principles years ago regarding your school and its successful (too successful for your liking) head coach.
Except the police and public safety reports were online for those to read, except for high ranking people fired because of it, except for people at the university sharing info, except for players no longer on the team, except for the head coach in the press stating sexual assault can never be tolerated, and on and on.....so similar... ::)
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Except the police and public safety reports were online for those to read, except for high ranking people fired because of it, except for people at the university sharing info, except for players no longer on the team, except for the head coach in the press stating sexual assault can never be tolerated, and on and on.....so similar... ::)
Your hypocrisy on this issue is well known. You've advocated for the rights of the accused in sexual assault cases here on an ongoing basis. Except when the accused (though never indicted or even charged) happen to play basketball for a Buzz Williams coached Marquette. Then unproven accusations (not believed by the public safety people you mention) become tantamount to guilt in your hypocritical eyes.
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I don't think you guys understand what an MLB Thread, (or the necessary, "Real MLB Thread" or the forthcoming, "Real, Real MLB Thread) is designated to be.
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You guys can blame whomever you want.
I put the blame on the guy who was a user for years.
I do as well....but addiction....disease...or something.
Occurred after his Tommy John surgery?
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Your hypocrisy on this issue is well known. You've advocated for the rights of the accused in sexual assault cases here on an ongoing basis. Except when the accused (though never indicted or even charged) happen to play basketball for a Buzz Williams coached Marquette. Then unproven accusations (not believed by the public safety people you mention) become tantamount to guilt in your hypocritical eyes.
I’ve advocated for those wrongfully accused or with flim flam evidence. I don’t recall advocating for anyone in which the coach tried to chat up the victim, university settlement, relying on the long history of high level investigative prowess of MU Public Safety, etc.
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I’ve advocated for those wrongfully accused or with flim flam evidence. I don’t recall advocating for anyone in which the coach tried to chat up the victim, university settlement, relying on the long history of high level investigative prowess of MU Public Safety, etc.
Remind me about the arrests, indictments and convictions of any of the coaches or players. Or don't those things matter to you anymore?
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Harden and Westbrook at game wearing Rockets jerseys with Harden and Westbrook on the back. WTH. Support the Astros!! They doing it all wrong.
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Harden and Westbrook at game wearing Rockets jerseys with Harden and Westbrook on the back. WTH. Support the Astros!! They doing it all wrong.
Pretty sure they are wearing Astros jerseys
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Pretty sure they are wearing Astros jerseys
Correct you. Incorrect I am.
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That was an incredible (and long) game.
The wife beater throws a meatball to Altuve with Marisnik on deck. Oops.
Altuve reacted as if that was a Spring Training home run. Love it.
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100 mph is great and all ..., but the great hitters will kill it if the location isn’t there and they are sitting dead red.
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Good for the little guy. Well done!!
Chapman can throw 103 and he throws 84 mph ball that is crushed.
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100 mph is great and all ..., but the great hitters will kill it if the location isn’t there and they are sitting dead red.
Especially when he throws it only 84mph
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Blown innings really couldn't happen to two nicer guys
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The wife beater throws a meatball
x2
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Baez is saying he wants David Ross to be the Cubs' next skipper.
So in addition to the best slider and the best tagger, he also is the best manager-judger.
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Baez is saying he wants David Ross to be the Cubs' next skipper.
So in addition to the best slider and the best tagger, he also is the best manager-judger.
I could be wrong, but I think it is probably not good when your manager has a history as being one of the guys on the team where he is now managing those guys.
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Words I thought I would never hear. The Astros have beaten the Yankees in the Playoffs for the 3rd time in 5 years. wow
The Nats matchup will be great if you enjoy watching elite power starting pitching at its finest . ESPN noted... Over the last three year period 6 of the top 10 pitchers in all MLB are in this series...Verlander, Cole, Grienke, Strasbourg Sherzer Corbin....wow
I would give pitching edge to Nats, Offense, defense edge to Astros. This one will go 6 or 7. My guess is Astros in 6
After three years of 100 plus losses earlier in this decade, the last 3, with 100 plus wins have been sheer pleasure.
I am stuck in Spain to 10/31 so my challenge is to get live game feeds at 2am local, in a baseball wasteland,
I hope you enjoy this series.
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The only bet I would make on this World Series is that it sets a record for strikeouts.
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It is only the 3rd decade in franchise history that the New York Yankees will not be World Series Champions.
They did not win one in 1910's. They did not win one in the 1980’s. They also did not win one in the 2010 decade.
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I could be wrong, but I think it is probably not good when your manager has a history as being one of the guys on the team where he is now managing those guys.
Craig Counsell made the transition pretty well.
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Craig Counsell made the transition pretty well.
Team had pretty much completely turned over (Lucroy, Braun, Gomez maybe?) from his last player season until he took over as manager, no?
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It is only the 3rd decade in franchise history that the New York Yankees will not be World Series Champions.
They did not win one in 1910's. They did not win one in the 1980’s. They also did not win one in the 2010 decade.
Technically, its four decades since they did not appear in or win one in the 1900's (which had 6 World Series). They did not play in the World Series in the 2010's, which makes it the first decade they did not appear in the World Series since the 1910s. Despite not appearing in the World Series, they had the most wins in MLB in those 10 years, with 921. The Dodgers, another team that did not win the World Series in the decade, was a close second with 919.
They are really consistent. They've had the most wins in the AL every decade since the 1920s with the exception of the 1960s and 1970s, when they were second to Baltimore. Besides the 1960s and 1970s, the only other decade they did not lead the majors in wins since the 1920s was the 1940s, when the Cardinals did (mostly due the Cards dominance during WW2).
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Technically, its four decades since they did not appear in or win one in the 1900's (which had 6 World Series). They did not play in the World Series in the 2010's, which makes it the first decade they did not appear in the World Series since the 1910s. Despite not appearing in the World Series, they had the most wins in MLB in those 10 years, with 921. The Dodgers, another team that did not win the World Series in the decade, was a close second with 919.
They are really consistent. They've had the most wins in the AL every decade since the 1920s with the exception of the 1960s and 1970s, when they were second to Baltimore. Besides the 1960s and 1970s, the only other decade they did not lead the majors in wins since the 1920s was the 1940s, when the Cardinals did (mostly due the Cards dominance during WW2).
Technically as I'm sure you know, they began as the New York Yankees in 1913. Hence why I said Yankees from that time to present.
(Prior to that they were the New York Highlanders and Baltimore Orioles at the beginning of that century.)
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Technically as I'm sure you know, they began as the New York Yankees in 1913. Hence why I said Yankees from that time to present.
(Prior to that they were the New York Highlanders and Baltimore Orioles at the beginning of that century.)
Fair enough. Franchise is a Franchise to me, but you are right.
My overall point was that as much as I hate them, their consistency is admirable.
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Fair enough. Franchise is a Franchise to me, but you are right.
My overall point was that as much as I hate them, their consistency is admirable.
Fair enough. Part of my reference was also because the average person might not know about the previous team names/identities. All three at least were in New York, as opposed to...say...the Dodgers. Would you separate those or keep the same. I'm a bit less quick to say the same for that as I would the Yankees franchise.
The Cardinals for example began as the in 1881 and they won 4 championships prior to the team being renamed the Cardinals in 1900. Then of course they won 11 more titles, 19 pennants and so on. Many don't discuss the 4 in the 1800's.
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Originally, in 1901, for one year, they were the MILWAUKEE BREWERS.....then for over 50 years the St Louis Browns....and ever since....the Baltimore Orioles
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It is only the 3rd decade in franchise history that the New York Yankees will not be World Series Champions.
They did not win one in 1910's. They did not win one in the 1980’s. They also did not win one in the 2010 decade.
They spent $2billion this decade..most
Won the most games in decade
Went to playoffs more than any other team
But no Ships.
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They spent $2billion this decade..most
Won the most games in decade
Went to playoffs more than any other team
But no Ships.
crapshoot, ai'na?
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https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/10/17/report-yankees-fans-taunted-zack-greinke-about-his-mother-battles-with-anxiety-and-depression/?fbclid=IwAR0teU_tZPFIjQb4SYP5Y7cPlrttAge216coGOXVnhJOU72Jf-WqhsbLNjs
I'm all for sports fans having some fun at the expense of an opposing team's on field play. We should be past making fun of mental health issues in this country by now. Just when you start thinking "What is wrong with people, go Astros" you get this...
https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10/22/houston-astros-roberto-osuna-suspension?fbclid=IwAR2AS3NpK9law5Ze89YtmAj2hcdkkwZpgbeN9hVHUXFZqejzuoWDiAxpJT0
Seriously, what the flying eff?
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https://mlb.nbcsports.com/…/report-yankees-fans-taunted-za…/
I'm all for sports fans having some fun at the expense of an opposing team's on field play. We should be past making fun of mental health issues in this country by now. Just when you start thinking "What is wrong with people, go Astros" you get this...
https://www.si.com/…/houston-astros-roberto-osuna-suspension
Seriously, what the flying eff?
Probably an ex assistant GM by now. What an absolute tool.
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Probably an ex assistant GM by now. What an absolute tool.
Doubt it. The Astros have shown they don't care. They even threw out a fan with a sign because it had a domestic abuse support hotline number on it.
Go Nats.
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crapshoot, ai'na?
Not as much as ncaa basketball, but as I showed you months ago with data...it is up there. Ncaa hoops 1st, Hockey 2nd, baseball third, NFL 4th, and NBA the most predictive.
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https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/10/17/report-yankees-fans-taunted-zack-greinke-about-his-mother-battles-with-anxiety-and-depression/?fbclid=IwAR0teU_tZPFIjQb4SYP5Y7cPlrttAge216coGOXVnhJOU72Jf-WqhsbLNjs
I'm all for sports fans having some fun at the expense of an opposing team's on field play. We should be past making fun of mental health issues in this country by now. Just when you start thinking "What is wrong with people, go Astros" you get this...
https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10/22/houston-astros-roberto-osuna-suspension?fbclid=IwAR2AS3NpK9law5Ze89YtmAj2hcdkkwZpgbeN9hVHUXFZqejzuoWDiAxpJT0
Seriously, what the flying eff?
Yeah, I read that earlier today. What a d-bag. And his organization, after supporting a woman-beater, now lying in his defense.
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Yeah, I read that earlier today. What a d-bag. And his organization, after supporting a woman-beater, now lying in his defense.
He was the first comparison I thought of, but I don't think Charles played with the same sort of violent explosiveness as Zion.
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Yeah, I read that earlier today. What a d-bag. And his organization, after supporting a woman-beater, now lying in his defense.
For those merely taking MU82’s word for it, on whether the team is lying or not, which he wasn’t there but of course of course the journalists are always right....here was the response by the team....who is right, who is wrong...no idea....but this was their response....decide for yourself.
The Astros statement read, "The story posted by Sports Illustrated is misleading and completely irresponsible. An Astros player was being asked questions about a difficult outing. Our executive was supporting the player during a difficult time. His comments had everything to do about the game situation that just occurred and nothing else -- they were also not directed toward any specific reporters. We are extremely disappointed in Sports Illustrated's attempt to fabricate a story where one does not exist."
Other reporters backing SI. Trying to provide full picture here.
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For those merely taking MU82’s word for it, on whether the team is lying or not, which he wasn’t there but of course of course the journalists are always right....here was the response by the team....who is right, who is wrong...no idea....but this was their response....decide for yourself.
The Astros statement read, "The story posted by Sports Illustrated is misleading and completely irresponsible. An Astros player was being asked questions about a difficult outing. Our executive was supporting the player during a difficult time. His comments had everything to do about the game situation that just occurred and nothing else -- they were also not directed toward any specific reporters. We are extremely disappointed in Sports Illustrated's attempt to fabricate a story where one does not exist."
So let's pretend the Astros are 100% truthful in this situation and it played out exactly as they state.
1) Your player is so self centered that he's so down on himself after his team hit a walk-off home run to send themselves to the World Series that the assistant GM needed to step in and defend the player?
2) Is that the proper way to step in and support your player? "I'm so happy we have Osuna. So phucking happy!" A half dozen times? Trying to intimidate the reporters? There doesn't seem much for reporters to mislead about. The assistant GM was acting like an assclown and that's what was reported. There's a reason the Astros did not make him available for comment.
3) Even if you find nothing wrong with numbers 1 and 2, there's probably a much better way to word it than to blame Sports Illustrated for "fabricat[ing] a story where one doesn't exist." Maybe something along the lines of, "We disagree with how the Sports Illustrated article describes the situation and our assistant general manager was supporting a pitcher who had a difficult outing. We apologize for any discomfort that resulted in what was an attempt to keep the player's spirits high" (as he's celebrating winning a pennant).
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Yeah, we Yankee fans are crying crocodile tears that we didn't make the World Series this decade. From 1921 to 1962 we won nearly every other World Series. Since 1921 we have been in the post season more than half the time.
On an another note:
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/yankees-domingo-german-wont-pitch-again-in-2019-following-domestic-violence-ban-report-says/
If he pitched, the AL championship outcome could have been different, but the Yanks did the right thing.
If the yanks can get some decent starting pitching, not great just decent, in the off season we could be looking at #28.
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Yeah, we Yankee fans are crying crocodile tears that we didn't make the World Series this decade. From 1921 to 1962 we won nearly every other World Series. Since 1921 we have been in the post season more than half the time.
On an another note:
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/yankees-domingo-german-wont-pitch-again-in-2019-following-domestic-violence-ban-report-says/
If he pitched, the AL championship outcome could have been different, but the Yanks did the right thing.
If the yanks can get some decent starting pitching, not great just decent, in the off season we could be looking at #28.
That was only 47-26 years before I was born. Very relatable.
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So let's pretend the Astros are 100% truthful in this situation and it played out exactly as they state.
1) Your player is so self centered that he's so down on himself after his team hit a walk-off home run to send themselves to the World Series that the assistant GM needed to step in and defend the player?
2) Is that the proper way to step in and support your player? "I'm so happy we have Osuna. So phucking happy!" A half dozen times? Trying to intimidate the reporters? There doesn't seem much for reporters to mislead about. The assistant GM was acting like an assclown and that's what was reported. There's a reason the Astros did not make him available for comment.
3) Even if you find nothing wrong with numbers 1 and 2, there's probably a much better way to word it than to blame Sports Illustrated for "fabricat[ing] a story where one doesn't exist." Maybe something along the lines of, "We disagree with how the Sports Illustrated article describes the situation and our assistant general manager was supporting a pitcher who had a difficult outing. We apologize for any discomfort that resulted in what was an attempt to keep the player's spirits high" (as he's celebrating winning a pennant).
Yep.
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What is more of a believable story:
1. The reporters are "attempting to fabricate a story," at this point in time. And enlisted other reporters to verify it. Or...
2. The Astros exec, elated by the victory and possibly slightly under the influence of something, uses this opportunity to direct his frustration at reporters about the Osuna situation.
I'm going to believe #2 pretty much every time. Because it usually ends up being accurate.
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That was only 47-26 years before I was born. Very relatable.
I was in NYC all weekend. There was an argument between some HS kids about baseball and one kept saying "27 rings baby, 27 rings"...as if he was alive for 26 of them, and probably has hazy memories of the last one.
Chirping about a franchise's per-internet success as a trump card is a pretty good indicator that recent history has not been to your liking.
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What is more of a believable story:
1. The reporters are "attempting to fabricate a story," at this point in time. And enlisted other reporters to verify it. Or...
2. The Astros exec, elated by the victory and possibly slightly under the influence of something, uses this opportunity to direct his frustration at reporters about the Osuna situation.
I'm going to believe #2 pretty much every time. Because it usually ends up being accurate.
Yes, it couldn’t be a middle ground where intent matters and people jump to conclusions of what was meant and misinterpreted in today’s society...nope, that cannot be it. I mean when has that ever happened...cough..cough.
Here was his response today...intent matters....for some, for others it never does and autoguilty.
“This past Saturday, during our clubhouse celebration, I used inappropriate language for which I am deeply sorry and embarrassed. In retrospect, I realize that my comments were unprofessional and inappropriate. My overexuberance in support of a player has been misrepresented as a demonstration of a regressive attitude about an important social issue. Those that know me know that I am a progressive member of the community, and a loving and committed husband and father. I hope that those who do know me understand that the Sports Illustrated article does not reflect who I am or my values. I am sorry if anyone was offended by my actions."
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Yes, it couldn’t be a middle ground where intent matters and people jump to conclusions of what was meant and misinterpreted in today’s society...nope, that cannot be it. I mean when has that ever happened...cough..cough.
Here was his response today...intent matters....for some, for others it never does and autoguilty.
“This past Saturday, during our clubhouse celebration, I used inappropriate language for which I am deeply sorry and embarrassed. In retrospect, I realize that my comments were unprofessional and inappropriate. My overexuberance in support of a player has been misrepresented as a demonstration of a regressive attitude about an important social issue. Those that know me know that I am a progressive member of the community, and a loving and committed husband and father. I hope that those who do know me understand that the Sports Illustrated article does not reflect who I am or my values. I am sorry if anyone was offended by my actions."
This portion of the "apology" is a pile of horsesh*t:
My overexuberance in support of a player has been misrepresented as a demonstration of a regressive attitude about an important social issue. Those that know me know that I am a progressive member of the community, and a loving and committed husband and father. I hope that those who do know me understand that the Sports Illustrated article does not reflect who I am or my values. I am sorry if anyone was offended by my actions.
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Yes, it couldn’t be a middle ground where intent matters and people jump to conclusions of what was meant and misinterpreted in today’s society...nope, that cannot be it. I mean when has that ever happened...cough..cough.
Here was his response today...intent matters....for some, for others it never does and autoguilty.
“This past Saturday, during our clubhouse celebration, I used inappropriate language for which I am deeply sorry and embarrassed. In retrospect, I realize that my comments were unprofessional and inappropriate. My overexuberance in support of a player has been misrepresented as a demonstration of a regressive attitude about an important social issue. Those that know me know that I am a progressive member of the community, and a loving and committed husband and father. I hope that those who do know me understand that the Sports Illustrated article does not reflect who I am or my values. I am sorry if anyone was offended by my actions."
He's only "so phucking happy" that the Astros have Osuna, hey? Seems very...odd. If I were the assistant GM I'd be "very phucking happy" I had Correa...and Altuve...and Cole...and Verlander...and Greinke...and Bregman...
Weird.
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Yeah, what does being a "loving and committed husband and father" have anything to do with this? God I hate when people put that crap in these types of statements.
Anyway, this is pretty much an admission, validates the original story, and makes the Astros initial statement look ridiculous. All will be forgotten though since the WS starts tonight.
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This portion of the "apology" is a pile of horsesh*t:
My overexuberance in support of a player has been misrepresented as a demonstration of a regressive attitude about an important social issue. Those that know me know that I am a progressive member of the community, and a loving and committed husband and father. I hope that those who do know me understand that the Sports Illustrated article does not reflect who I am or my values. I am sorry if anyone was offended by my actions.
If he went out before the press and simply said " I am sorry. I was 100% wrong. My comments were insensitive", I would be fully accepting.
Hiding behind a lawyer's written apology means nothing to me.
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If he went out before the press and simply said " I am sorry. I was 100% wrong. My comments were insensitive", I would be fully accepting.
Hiding behind a lawyer's written apology means nothing to me.
Especially when it includes the old "if anyone was offended" line.
Yeah, what does being a "loving and committed husband and father" have anything to do with this? God I hate when people put that crap in these types of statements.
Anyway, this is pretty much an admission, validates the original story, and makes the Astros initial statement look ridiculous. All will be forgotten though since the WS starts tonight.
Yep yep.
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He's only "so phucking happy" that the Astros have Osuna, hey? Seems very...odd. If I were the assistant GM I'd be "very phucking happy" I had Correa...and Altuve...and Cole...and Verlander...and Greinke...and Bregman...
Weird.
I’m sure he is happy they have all of them...in fact he has said as much about some of those other players at different times.
I just want to make sure I have yours and other stories correct....he purposely said this because he wanted to offend several female reporters and he supports sexual assault? Is that what some of you are saying?
Or is there middle ground where the guy is phucking happy they signed a great closer (who is a d bag and I wouldn’t sign him from the start, but that’s another story) and he said it, said it loud, with no intent at all to offend anyone? Why is it one and not the other? What is dictating that response? Did he hate these reporters? Is he pro sexual assault? Is he anti woman? Or was he caught up in the moment of victory and said something stupid and totally misinterpreted? I get why in today’s world it always defaults to the worst....why?
As for the response, most of these things are lawyerly these days. That is no surprise. Astros are protecting themselves against doing anything against him, as well. That’s the deal with labor law today.
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I’m sure he is happy they have all of them...in fact he has said as much about some of those other players at different times.
I just want to make sure I have yours and other stories correct....he purposely said this because he wanted to offend several female reporters and he supports sexual assault? Is that what some of you are saying?
Or is there middle ground where the guy is phucking happy they signed a great closer (who is a d bag and I wouldn’t sign him from the start, but that’s another story) and he said it, said it loud, with no intent at all to offend anyone? Why is it one and not the other? What is dictating that response? Did he hate these reporters? Is he pro sexual assault? Is he anti woman? Or was he caught up in the moment of victory and said something stupid and totally misinterpreted? I get why in today’s world it always defaults to the worst....why?
As for the response, most of these things are lawyerly these days. That is no surprise. Astros are protecting themselves against doing anything against him, as well. That’s the deal with labor law today.
I think you might want to hit the brakes defending this guy. I’m sure more will come out, but this isn’t a great look.
https://twitter.com/davidfolkenflik/status/1186755725969809408?s=21
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I’m sure he is happy they have all of them...in fact he has said as much about some of those other players at different times.
I just want to make sure I have yours and other stories correct....he purposely said this because he wanted to offend several female reporters and he supports sexual assault? Is that what some of you are saying?
Or is there middle ground where the guy is phucking happy they signed a great closer (who is a d bag and I wouldn’t sign him from the start, but that’s another story) and he said it, said it loud, with no intent at all to offend anyone? Why is it one and not the other? What is dictating that response? Did he hate these reporters? Is he pro sexual assault? Is he anti woman? Or was he caught up in the moment of victory and said something stupid and totally misinterpreted? I get why in today’s world it always defaults to the worst....why?
As for the response, most of these things are lawyerly these days. That is no surprise. Astros are protecting themselves against doing anything against him, as well. That’s the deal with labor law today.
Why is it one and not the other? Common f'n sense, that's why.
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I’m sure he is happy they have all of them...in fact he has said as much about some of those other players at different times.
I just want to make sure I have yours and other stories correct....he purposely said this because he wanted to offend several female reporters and he supports sexual assault? Is that what some of you are saying?
Or is there middle ground where the guy is phucking happy they signed a great closer (who is a d bag and I wouldn’t sign him from the start, but that’s another story) and he said it, said it loud, with no intent at all to offend anyone? Why is it one and not the other? What is dictating that response? Did he hate these reporters? Is he pro sexual assault? Is he anti woman? Or was he caught up in the moment of victory and said something stupid and totally misinterpreted? I get why in today’s world it always defaults to the worst....why?
As for the response, most of these things are lawyerly these days. That is no surprise. Astros are protecting themselves against doing anything against him, as well. That’s the deal with labor law today.
Lol. You're as bad as the Astros cheeks. But he's a rich white male so people are out to get him, that's all. He did nothing wrong. Not what is said, just who says it, hey?
I'm very phucking happy you continue to out yourself as a moron. But I'm not directing that at you at all! Don't be offended you SJW!
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Or is there middle ground where the guy is phucking happy they signed a great closer (who is a d bag and I wouldn’t sign him from the start, but that’s another story) and he said it, said it loud, with no intent at all to offend anyone? Why is it one and not the other? What is dictating that response? Did he hate these reporters? Is he pro sexual assault? Is he anti woman? Or was he caught up in the moment of victory and said something stupid and totally misinterpreted? I get why in today’s world it always defaults to the worst....why?
It just seems like an odd thing to say at the time considering Osuna blew the save just a few minutes prior and hadn't been stellar in his closer role during the post season in either series.
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hoopaloop is not only quick to defend the overdog, but he is quick to attack the evil, enemy-of-the-people media.
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Hey! Anyone know the Series started tonight? Nats in 6.
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Hey! Anyone know the Series started tonight? Nats in 6.
Great start for the Nats. If they win tonight (good chance with Strasburg going) they have a stranglehold on the series. Great to see a guy like Zimmerman hit a homer in the World Series and Soto is something else. Bryce who?
I almost always root for the American League team (Yankees are the exception), but I really like the idea of Washington getting a championship.
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5-4 game. Game Time: 3:43
We need to speed up the game.
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Scherzer vs Cole ... all the makings of a 1-0 classic.
Except, as so often happens, that's not what happened.
If Nats can win tonight -- defeating both Cole and Verlander on the road -- wow!
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David phuccking ross is back
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Scherzer vs Cole ... all the makings of a 1-0 classic.
Except, as so often happens, that's not what happened.
If Nats can win tonight -- defeating both Cole and Verlander on the road -- wow!
My brother-in-law is from the DC area, big Nats fan obviously. Talking about the game he was super nervous and I said the silver lining was Cole had been so magnificent, he was due for a shaky outing. And there it was. Steal one on the road for both swinging home field and momentum/confidence. Amazing.
Also, Juan Soto is unreal at 20.
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Also, Juan Soto is unreal at 20.
So much of this.
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My brother-in-law is from the DC area, big Nats fan obviously. Talking about the game he was super nervous and I said the silver lining was Cole had been so magnificent, he was due for a shaky outing. And there it was. Steal one on the road for both swinging home field and momentum/confidence. Amazing.
Also, Juan Soto is unreal at 20.
Totally agree about Soto. Wow!
Nats are a very compelling story, and I was rooting for them even before the Astros asst GM lost his shyte. I just love that they lost their all-time franchise player to a division rival and got off to a terrible start, but are now in the World Series. That's the kind of thing that makes sports fun.
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David phuccking ross is back
Meh. I have no judgement.
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David phuccking ross is back
Seems like a bright man, and he was a manager-on-the-field kind of guy as a player for two franchises that won a lot. It's quite rare for a guy to go to the manager's office having absolutely no previous coaching or managing experience, but maybe he'll be great.
Maybe a little like Glenn Rivers, who did only OK in his first NBA head-coaching stop, got fired by the Magic, but went on to become a highly respected coach with the Celtics.
Maybe Ross will get there quicker, in part because of the Cubs' resources. Or maybe he'll suck. We'll see!
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David phuccking ross is back
Theo wants to manage the team so this move makes it easier.
More significantly, one could argue, for the Cubs were the front office moves to beef up analytics. The Brewers and Cards have blown by the Cubs in the last few years in this area.
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Saw a tweet saying one thing that set him apart was his mock spring training speech that the Cubs asked each candidate to do as part of their second interview.
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Saw a tweet saying one thing that set him apart was his mock spring training speech that the Cubs asked each candidate to do as part of their second interview.
Dear lord. Acting is a skill set needed now?
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Seems like a bright man, and he was a manager-on-the-field kind of guy as a player for two franchises that won a lot. It's quite rare for a guy to go to the manager's office having absolutely no previous coaching or managing experience, but maybe he'll be great.
Maybe a little like Glenn Rivers, who did only OK in his first NBA head-coaching stop, got fired by the Magic, but went on to become a highly respected coach with the Celtics.
Maybe Ross will get there quicker, in part because of the Cubs' resources. Or maybe he'll suck. We'll see!
I think its more common in baseball. With varying degrees of success, Brad Ausmus, Gabe Kapler, and Craig Counsell all went into managing positions without any experience. Alex Cora in Boston was a bench couch for just a year. Joe Giradi got his job with the Marlins without any experience managing, same with Aaron Boone and the Yankees.
I think there is a lot less dynamic in-game tinkering that needs to be done, so you can get a pretty good feel for it as a player and there isn't a huge learning curve to handle the core of it after. Similar to soccer where you see a number of players move right to managing after. Football and basketball have tons of play calling and strategy on the fly that can take time to get the hang of.
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I usually shy away from criticizing players for not hustling, but Springer could have been on 3rd with one out in the 8th inning, right? Maybe it would've changed things, maybe not.
Anyway, it was a great game.
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Theo wants to manage the team so this move makes it easier.
More significantly, one could argue, for the Cubs were the front office moves to beef up analytics. The Brewers and Cards have blown by the Cubs in the last few years in this area.
Nailed it!
In the old days (5-10 years ago), managers took care of on field concerns. That was their province. That has changed. With the advanced analytics of the last 5 years, the manager needs to work with the front office as well.
This is a different game than it was even 5 years ago. Advancements in player development demand that it be so. There was basically no player development as recently as 7-8 yeas ago. What teams called player development was the same in 2010 as it was in 1910. And the best players in the minor leagues received the least instruction. No coach wanted to have a 1st rounder make a major change in his approach at the plate or in a pitcher's delivery cuz they would be blamed if the player was then a bust. Instead, they relied on the old "truisms" that had been around forever.
Pitchers were told to keep the ball down. Spin rate was an unknown concept. The idea that pitchers who can best control the 3 true outcomes (Walk, strikeout, HR) are going to be the best pitchers was unheard of.
Hitters were told keep the ball down. Instead, we now know that the opposite is true. Simple physics was ignored. Since the ball is coming on a downward plane to the hitter, it would seem obvious that the best path to success would be to have a slight uppercut swing to have the most surface area of the bat to meet the ball.
The hires this off-season show that most teams get it now. For example, Kyle Boddy was hired by the Reds. 5 years ago, no GM would even talk to the guy.
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I think its more common in baseball. With varying degrees of success, Brad Ausmus, Gabe Kapler, and Craig Counsell all went into managing positions without any experience. Alex Cora in Boston was a bench couch for just a year. Joe Giradi got his job with the Marlins without any experience managing, same with Aaron Boone and the Yankees.
I think there is a lot less dynamic in-game tinkering that needs to be done, so you can get a pretty good feel for it as a player and there isn't a huge learning curve to handle the core of it after. Similar to soccer where you see a number of players move right to managing after. Football and basketball have tons of play calling and strategy on the fly that can take time to get the hang of.
I disagree with the one statement that I bolded. The guys you named were all considered students of the game. I expect Ross will hire an experienced bench coach to help him with the learning curve.
Your inference that the job of the manager is changing is spot on, though. He needs to have the skills of working hand-in-hand with the front office and working with analytics for player development. Heck, some teams are starting to want their coaches versed in SQL so they can run some of the analytics on their own.
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https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/1187019049349406721
Where have I heard about this before...
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/10/29/bruce-arians-was-bothered-by-several-developments-in-2013-interview-with-bears/
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https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/1187019049349406721
Where have I heard about this before...
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/10/29/bruce-arians-was-bothered-by-several-developments-in-2013-interview-with-bears/
I get that motivation is part if it, but that seems like a ridiculous thing to have in an interview.
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Any sports executive who doesn't realize the difference between giving a pretend speech to executives and giving a real speech to the men that you are going into battle with is simply a dim-witted buffoon who is in the wrong business.
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Any sports executive who doesn't realize the difference between giving a pretend speech to executives and giving a real speech to the men that you are going into battle with is simply a dim-witted buffoon who is in the wrong business.
Baseball’s form of Cuddles.
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The double-switch isn't rocket science.
The two most important things for a manager these days IMHO are ego management and ability to make good bullpen decisions. And the latter will be influenced strongly by the mix the GM gives him.
Without knowing squat about the depth of Ross' knowledge, the fact that he's been something of a bench coach and a TV analyst, as well as a catcher for a long time leads me to believe he'll do OK figuring out the bullpen as well as most others would.
Agree he would benefit from a savvy bench coach. Is Jerry Wainwright available?
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Any sports executive who doesn't realize the difference between giving a pretend speech to executives and giving a real speech to the men that you are going into battle with is simply a dim-witted buffoon who is in the wrong business.
Keefe? That you?
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This was my comment the last few days...what was the intent. Looks like their GM is saying the same thing. We get it, some people assume auto-guilt. I just don't. He might be, but I would want to know why he did it and what the intent was.
Astros GM Jeff Luhnow Breaks Silence On Taubman Incident
Astros President of Baseball Operations & GM Jeff Luhnow today "apologized for the actions" of Assistant GM Brandon Taubman but "intimated 'we may never know' Taubman's intent with his expletive-filled tirade." In a previously scheduled radio interview with Houston based KBME-AM, Luhnow offered his first public comments on the issue, saying, "Brandon has apologized [for] inappropriate behavior and I think, from my perspective, clearly something happened that he regrets. What we really don’t know is the intent behind the inappropriate comments he made. We may never know that because the person who said them and the people who heard them, at least up to this point, have different perspectives." Luhnow fielded "only one question about the allegations during the 12-minute interview" (HOUSTON CHRONICLE, 10/23).
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This was my comment the last few days...what was the intent. Looks like their GM is saying the same thing. We get it, some people assume auto-guilt. I just don't. He might be, but I would want to know why he did it and what the intent was.
Astros GM Jeff Luhnow Breaks Silence On Taubman Incident
Astros President of Baseball Operations & GM Jeff Luhnow today "apologized for the actions" of Assistant GM Brandon Taubman but "intimated 'we may never know' Taubman's intent with his expletive-filled tirade." In a previously scheduled radio interview with Houston based KBME-AM, Luhnow offered his first public comments on the issue, saying, "Brandon has apologized [for] inappropriate behavior and I think, from my perspective, clearly something happened that he regrets. What we really don’t know is the intent behind the inappropriate comments he made. We may never know that because the person who said them and the people who heard them, at least up to this point, have different perspectives." Luhnow fielded "only one question about the allegations during the 12-minute interview" (HOUSTON CHRONICLE, 10/23).
Very cool.
So we should not pass judgement or be critical of anyone unless they explicitly state their intent to do harm or damage.
Somebody shoots up a school? Don’t pass judgment unless the shooter is stating their intent to have hurt and killed as many people as possible.
Someone sexually assaults another person? Unless the assaulter states they meant to ruin a person’s life let’s leave them alone.
After all, how can we ever know the intent of a person who hasn’t told us?
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I love the whole "we may never know his intent" line.
He's alive and he works for you. Why don't you ask him?
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Verlander is 0-4 with an ERA over 5 in World Series games.
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But, 1/2 inning later, all square. See which pitcher rights the ship first.
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But, 1/2 inning later, all square. See which pitcher rights the ship first.
They're both dealing right now.
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Both managers are probably grateful to not have to worry about when to pitch hit for these guys.
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The double-switch isn't rocket science.
The two most important things for a manager these days IMHO are ego management and ability to make good bullpen decisions. And the latter will be influenced strongly by the mix the GM gives him.
Without knowing squat about the depth of Ross' knowledge, the fact that he's been something of a bench coach and a TV analyst, as well as a catcher for a long time leads me to believe he'll do OK figuring out the bullpen as well as most others would.
Agree he would benefit from a savvy bench coach. Is Jerry Wainwright available?
What I think you are seeing here with the Cubs, like Counsell with the Brewers, is a shift in how teams are now managed. At first, I didn't quite understand why Counsell moved from the front office to the manager role with no coaching experience in between. But now I get it. You want your manager to be in sync more with the front office on how players are deployed. Making in game switches and pitching changes are likely laid out well ahead of time given the scenarios in play. The era of a manager being an "independent decision maker" is ending.
So I'm not saying the role of the manager is diminished, but it is now more in sync with what the organization is trying to accomplish from top to bottom.
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What I think you are seeing here with the Cubs, like Counsell with the Brewers, is a shift in how teams are now managed. At first, I didn't quite understand why Counsell moved from the front office to the manager role with no coaching experience in between. But now I get it. You want your manager to be in sync more with the front office on how players are deployed. Making in game switches and pitching changes are likely laid out well ahead of time given the scenarios in play. The era of a manager being an "independent decision maker" is ending.
So I'm not saying the role of the manager is diminished, but it is now more in sync with what the organization is trying to accomplish from top to bottom.
The days of Art Howe are dead.
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What I think you are seeing here with the Cubs, like Counsell with the Brewers, is a shift in how teams are now managed. At first, I didn't quite understand why Counsell moved from the front office to the manager role with no coaching experience in between. But now I get it. You want your manager to be in sync more with the front office on how players are deployed. Making in game switches and pitching changes are likely laid out well ahead of time given the scenarios in play. The era of a manager being an "independent decision maker" is ending.
So I'm not saying the role of the manager is diminished, but it is now more in sync with what the organization is trying to accomplish from top to bottom.
OK. I'm not disputing any of that. I actually agree that Ross probably will have little problem whatsoever with the in-game decision-making stuff. You probably could do pretty well in that regard, too. I'm talking more about the personal-relationship side of it.
Counsell, Boone, Kapler, Ausmus, etc, did not go from teammate to manager in a short period of time.
Many of the guys Ross considered buddies are still playing for the Cubs: Rizzo, Hayward, Baez, Bryant, Lester, etc. For some, it's a difficult enough transition to go from assistant coach to coach or manager -- as Majerus and many others would attest. To go from peer to boss can be really tough, especially given that ego management is probably the single most important job for a manager. How will Ross handle it if, say, Contreras, a buddy, short-circuits? How will he deal with it if Lester becomes a cruddy pitcher? We can't know that kind of stuff yet.
Maybe I'm overstating all of this and it will be a super-easy transition for the guy his pals call "Rossy." We'll see!
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OK. I'm not disputing any of that. I actually agree that Ross probably will have little problem whatsoever with the in-game decision-making stuff. You probably could do pretty well in that regard, too. I'm talking more about the personal-relationship side of it.
Counsell, Boone, Kapler, Ausmus, etc, did not go from teammate to manager in a short period of time.
Many of the guys Ross considered buddies are still playing for the Cubs: Rizzo, Hayward, Baez, Bryant, Lester, etc. For some, it's a difficult enough transition to go from assistant coach to coach or manager -- as Majerus and many others would attest. To go from peer to boss can be really tough, especially given that ego management is probably the single most important job for a manager. How will Ross handle it if, say, Contreras, a buddy, short-circuits? How will he deal with it if Lester becomes a cruddy pitcher? We can't know that kind of stuff yet.
Maybe I'm overstating all of this and it will be a super-easy transition for the guy his pals call "Rossy." We'll see!
He killed his mock Spring Training pep talk. I'm certain he'll have the respect of the locker room.
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OK. I'm not disputing any of that. I actually agree that Ross probably will have little problem whatsoever with the in-game decision-making stuff. You probably could do pretty well in that regard, too. I'm talking more about the personal-relationship side of it.
Counsell, Boone, Kapler, Ausmus, etc, did not go from teammate to manager in a short period of time.
Many of the guys Ross considered buddies are still playing for the Cubs: Rizzo, Hayward, Baez, Bryant, Lester, etc. For some, it's a difficult enough transition to go from assistant coach to coach or manager -- as Majerus and many others would attest. To go from peer to boss can be really tough, especially given that ego management is probably the single most important job for a manager. How will Ross handle it if, say, Contreras, a buddy, short-circuits? How will he deal with it if Lester becomes a cruddy pitcher? We can't know that kind of stuff yet.
Maybe I'm overstating all of this and it will be a super-easy transition for the guy his pals call "Rossy." We'll see!
We will see. I think it depends on the clubhouse culture he can build. If everyone buys in and appreciates their roles, I don't think the move would be as difficult as you think. Workplaces are changing. Baseball is no different. Of course someone has to be in charge, but IMO these days culture and mutual accountability are more of a factor than anything else.
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We will see. I think it depends on the clubhouse culture he can build. If everyone buys in and appreciates their roles, I don't think the move would be as difficult as you think. Workplaces are changing. Baseball is no different. Of course someone has to be in charge, but IMO these days culture and mutual accountability are more of a factor than anything else.
Agreed.
Based on what we know, he seems like a decent guy. I wish him well.
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Manager no 'matta (did I do that right?).
The last time the White Sox were above .500, Robin Ventura was their manager.
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MLB has another PR problem:
Major league umpire Rob Drake tweeted “I will be buying an AR-15 tomorrow, because if you impeach MY PRESIDENT this way, YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER CIVAL WAR!!! #MAGA2020”,
Time to fire his ignorant a$$.
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MLB has another PR problem:
Major league umpire Rob Drake tweeted “I will be buying an AR-15 tomorrow, because if you impeach MY PRESIDENT this way, YOU WILL HAVE ANOTHER CIVAL WAR!!! #MAGA2020”,
Time to fire his ignorant a$$.
We don't know his intent though.
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"Cival"
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"Cival"
:) obviously the guy isn’t the brightest bulb in the ump’s locker room.
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I usually shy away from criticizing players for not hustling, but Springer could have been on 3rd with one out in the 8th inning, right? Maybe it would've changed things, maybe not.
Anyway, it was a great game.
It was a great game, but I've given up expecting hustle from players. 3rd inning of same game, Brantley on first with two outs and Gurriel pops up a ball in no man's land between SS, LF and CF. Brantley jogs into second and realizes a step or two before he gets there it has a chance to drop and then busts it to third and takes a big turn and has to hold up. If he is running hard from contact with two outs he scores. No one even mentions it.
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It was a great game, but I've given up expecting hustle from players. 3rd inning of same game, Brantley on first with two outs and Gurriel pops up a ball in no man's land between SS, LF and CF. Brantley jogs into second and realizes a step or two before he gets there it has a chance to drop and then busts it to third and takes a big turn and has to hold up. If he is running hard from contact with two outs he scores. No one even mentions it.
If you are an Astros fan it wasn't a great game.
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So, the Astros just fired Brandon Taubman and apologized to Stephanie Apstein.
Not a banner week for that franchise.
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So, the Astros just fired Brandon Taubman and apologized to Stephanie Apstein.
Yeah their entire response to that episode ranged from flat out lies to ridiculous tone-deafness.
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I’ll save Cheeks the time.
Another innocent man’s career ruined by SJWs and the PC society we live in today.
The guy never even stated the intent of those comments.
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Another scalp
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Yeah their entire response to that episode ranged from flat out lies to ridiculous tone-deafness.
I think my favorite one was the reporter was wearing a bracelet as if anyone notices what bracelets people are wearing.
He will have an interesting lawsuit against the team.
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I think my favorite one was the reporter was wearing a bracelet as if anyone notices what bracelets people are wearing.
He will have an interesting lawsuit against the team.
Lol. The persecuted rich white male falls again.
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Lol. The persecuted rich white male falls again.
And she wasn't just wearing a bracelet. She had specifically written articles cricial of the Astro's handling of the Osuna situation. He knew what he was doing.
He shouldn't sue because it will end badly for him.
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Lol. The persecuted rich white male falls again.
The predicted response...by the way, I have no idea the person’s age, ethnicity, sexual preference, etc, but will take your word for it.
I’m guessing a large parting gift his heading his way, or a lawsuit will come from him especially based on the GM’a comments yesterday about intent. Easier for them to part ways with him, pay him off or pay in the end.
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And she wasn't just wearing a bracelet. She had specifically written articles cricial of the Astro's handling of the Osuna situation. He knew what he was doing.
He shouldn't sue because it will end badly for him.
He won't sue because if he had a contract the whole thing has already been discussed, and the Astros lawyers would have gone over everything already to make sure their asses are covered. I love it when the tort reform crowd yells "sue the bastards" when one of their own is affected.
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And she wasn't just wearing a bracelet. She had specifically written articles cricial of the Astro's handling of the Osuna situation. He knew what he was doing.
He shouldn't sue because it will end badly for him.
Interesting for someone to prove that in court if that is the case. Intent will have to be proved. Didn’t we have a whole discussion about intent here last month?
He may not have to if he gets a severance upon exit. If the bracelet didn’t matter, why is it continued to be mentioned? As if people notice bracelets? Talk about an absolutely ridiculous inclusion in the story. Nobody notices that stuff, let alone how many people even know what these things mean when there are thousands of different causes, various colors, etc. This isn’t the days of live strong yellow bracelets that everyone knew, now there are literally thousands with every cause under the Sun. Apparently it was brought up by people as “further proof” and I believe any competent attorney would have that laughed out of the equation as ridiculous.
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He won't sue because if he had a contract the whole thing has already been discussed, and the Astros lawyers would have gone over everything already to make sure their asses are covered. I love it when the tort reform crowd yells "sue the bastards" when one of their own is affected.
Lawyers often think things are covered, doesn’t mean other lawyers on the opposite side think differently. Lawyers agreeing with each other?? LOL
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The predicted response...by the way, I have no idea the person’s age, ethnicity, sexual preference, etc, but will take your word for it.
I’m guessing a large parting gift his heading his way, or a lawsuit will come from him especially based on the GM’a comments yesterday about intent. Easier for them to part ways with him, pay him off or pay in the end.
Brandon Taubman. Definitely sounds like a latina woman to me! Not to mention his picture has been connected to almost every article about it. Way to add in age and sexual preference to make extra sure you show how "unbiased" and naive you are to it all, you're speaking just to generalities of the poor scapegoat here, naturally.
Maybe the bracelet matters cause she wasn't just a woman. She was a woman who had reported on the Osauna domestic violence issues and was involved enough with the cause that she wears a bracelet in support. Aka he knew his target. If you made a crack about cancer to someone wearing a Livestrong bracelet because they had lost a parent to cancer and you knew it, that speaks to a more targeted action than "i made a broad comment, sorry to offend".
Hope you send him an edible arrangement to show your support. Its more trendy than flowers these days!
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Waiting for Chico to defend the racist, white supremicist umpire who has threatened to murder people who disagree with him.
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Brandon Taubman. Definitely sounds like a latina woman to me! Not to mention his picture has been connected to almost every article about it. Way to add in age and sexual preference to make extra sure you show how "unbiased" and naive you are to it all, you're speaking just to generalities of the poor scapegoat here, naturally.
Maybe the bracelet matters cause she wasn't just a woman. She was a woman who had reported on the Osauna domestic violence issues and was involved enough with the cause that she wears a bracelet in support. Aka he knew his target. If you made a crack about cancer to someone wearing a Livestrong bracelet because they had lost a parent to cancer and you knew it, that speaks to a more targeted action than "i made a broad comment, sorry to offend".
Hope you send him an edible arrangement to show your support. Its more trendy than flowers these days!
I hear fruits and plants are hurt when they are eaten, so I will avoid that damage to Mother Nature.
The GM’s comments yesterday are going to go in his favor, unless they found something else. I think if you read my initial response you will also notice i presented both sides...someone in particular decided the club was lying because that’s his default response. He had no idea then and not now, but again that is his default. I provided the other side of the story, something journalists used to do. Happy to oblige and provide the missing pieces from the “lying” club, etc.
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Waiting for Chico to defend the racist, white supremicist umpire who has threatened to murder people who disagree with him.
BrandX doesn’t want me to respond to him, but puts a message out like this. And he says I have psychological issues. LOL.
Wish I knew what you were talking about with your reference above. Sorry, I don’t. Maybe you can provide a link or back story. Thanks.
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Just so everybody's clear, what Cheeks is doing here has nothing to do with Brandon Taubman, Brandon Taubman's race or gender, or anything Brandon Taubman did.
This is just about Cheeks' pathological inability to admit when he's wrong or back down one centimeter from whatever recent hot take he's offered.
Imagine your ego being that fragile and you might just conjure up some empathy for the man.
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I hear fruits and plants are hurt when they are eaten, so I will avoid that damage to Mother Nature.
The GM’s comments yesterday are going to go in his favor, unless they found something else. I think if you read my initial response you will also notice i presented both sides...someone in particular decided the club was lying because that’s his default response. He had no idea then and not now, but again that is his default. I provided the other side of the story, something journalists used to do. Happy to oblige and provide the missing pieces from the “lying” club, etc.
the guy knew who he was yelling at. Why say that about a guy who blew the save just a few minutes prior (and was shaky in previous playoff outings) without having a reason behind it.
According to three eyewitnesses interviewed by NPR, Taubman appeared to be responding to the presence of a female reporter who was wearing a purple rubber bracelet to heighten awareness about domestic violence.
That reporter has tweeted repeatedly about the issue over the years. Taubman complained last year that some of the reporter's informational tweets — promoting domestic violence hotline telephone numbers, for example — appeared moments after Osuna entered several Astros games in relief.
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/22/772368868/astros-executives-rant-at-reporters-draws-firestorm-on-eve-of-series
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Just so everybody's clear, what Cheeks is doing here has nothing to do with Brandon Taubman, Brandon Taubman's race or gender, or anything Brandon Taubman did.
This is just about Cheeks' pathological inability to admit when he's wrong or back down one centimeter from whatever recent hot take he's offered.
Imagine your ego being that fragile and you might just conjure up some empathy for the man.
Exactly. A rich white male whose team traded for a guy serving a suspension for domestic violence, who was considered damaged goods because of said domestic violence, sees a female reporter who had written and Tweeted about the Astros and their trading for a player who beats women and has complained about her Tweeting about domestic violence just happens to see this reporter, along with 2 other female reporters, standing near, but not even addressing, said wife beater, and starts screaming about how "phucking happy" he is to have this wife beater on his team...immediately after the wife beater had blown a 2 run lead in the 9th inning. But it was all coincidental, there was no intent behind it, let's not draw conclusions about the guy. Heck, even the Astros themselves say relax, we don't know the intent.
Then when the Astros fire the guy a day later, Cheeks yells "SUE!"
Lol.
What a freaking nut. Defend the guy defending a wife beater over admitting he had something wrong. Truly unbelievable, but this is a guy who will just make a new username to defend himself.
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BrandX doesn’t want me to respond to him, but puts a message out like this. And he says I have psychological issues. LOL.
Wish I knew what you were talking about with your reference above. Sorry, I don’t. Maybe you can provide a link or back story. Thanks.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27913518/mlb-looking-long-umpire-rob-drake-tweet
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Anyone else think its a bit funny that the domestic abuser still has a job, but the guy that yelled about it doesn't?
edit: Not saying they shouldn't have fired him.
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Anyone else think its a bit funny that the domestic abuser still has a job, but the guy that yelled about it doesn't?
edit: Not saying they shouldn't have fired him.
Domestic abuser who throws upper 90s is more valuable to an MLB franchise than a dime-a-dozen Ivy leaguer who fancies himself the next Theo Epstein.
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In the "and now for something completely different" category...
MLB is preparing to hear Kris Bryant's service time manipulation grievance against the Cubs. This could have tremendous implications for MLB. Personally, I hope Bryant wins, and it blows up the service time games.
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I don't know. It's pretty hard to determine when it is manipulation, when it is legit, and when it is a little of both.
What needs to happen is a little more clarification in the CBA. Players should get shorter service time to free agency too but that's not likely going to happen.
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I don't know. It's pretty hard to determine when it is manipulation, when it is legit, and when it is a little of both.
What needs to happen is a little more clarification in the CBA. Players should get shorter service time to free agency too but that's not likely going to happen.
Oh, I agree. He will have a very difficult time proving it, even if it seems very obvious (I think this applies to Bryant. Obviously it is what they did, but incredibly hard to prove it.). Honestly, I don't think he will win, I just don't like how the system works right now. It is better for baseball to have the best players with their teams, not wasting time in AAA.
I understand why teams do it, and it would almost be frivolous not to do it, especially for a team not in contention. That doesn't make it any less crappy.
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Oh, I agree. He will have a very difficult time proving it, even if it seems very obvious (I think this applies to Bryant. Obviously it is what they did, but incredibly hard to prove it.). Honestly, I don't think he will win, I just don't like how the system works right now. It is better for baseball to have the best players with their teams, not wasting time in AAA.
I understand why teams do it, and it would almost be frivolous not to do it, especially for a team not in contention. That doesn't make it any less crappy.
It will be fixed in the next CBA. Meantime, da rules are da rules.
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Exactly. A rich white male whose team traded for a guy serving a suspension for domestic violence, who was considered damaged goods because of said domestic violence, sees a female reporter who had written and Tweeted about the Astros and their trading for a player who beats women and has complained about her Tweeting about domestic violence just happens to see this reporter, along with 2 other female reporters, standing near, but not even addressing, said wife beater, and starts screaming about how "phucking happy" he is to have this wife beater on his team...immediately after the wife beater had blown a 2 run lead in the 9th inning. But it was all coincidental, there was no intent behind it, let's not draw conclusions about the guy. Heck, even the Astros themselves say relax, we don't know the intent.
Then when the Astros fire the guy a day later, Cheeks yells "SUE!"
Lol.
What a freaking nut. Defend the guy defending a wife beater over admitting he had something wrong. Truly unbelievable, but this is a guy who will just make a new username to defend himself.
Why are you surprised? In another thread today, hoopaloop claims he would be fine with it if an authority figure punched his son in the face.
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Why are you surprised? In another thread today, hoopaloop claims he would be fine with it if an authority figure punched his son in the face.
On 5th Avenue?
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Oh behave.
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Lots of rumors of the Brewers retiring the Miller-script M logo. Is there any possibility that the 'new' logo is not simply a return of the ball and glove full time? (this is the correct choice)
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Lots of rumors of the Brewers retiring the Miller-script M logo. Is there any possibility that the 'new' logo is not simply a return of the ball and glove full time? (this is the correct choice)
Word on the street is it is going to be a "Brewers" script under the Amfam roofline.
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Witch street, hey?
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https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10/25/brandon-taubman-facing-suspension-astros
Dude should lawyer up and call Cheeks. Sue the Astros. Sue the MLB. They can't take these actions, we don't know this guy's intent! He's going to be a very, very rich man.
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Uh-oh.
WASHINGTON — In a startling development that vastly alters the complexion of the World Series at its most pivotal moment, Washington Nationals ace Max Scherzer will not start Sunday night’s Game 5 after suffering severe irritation in a neck nerve and right trapezius, manager Dave Martinez announced.
Joe Ross will start in place of Scherzer, who started and won Game 1. While Martinez said Scherzer may return later in the series, either in relief of Stephen Strasburg in Game 6 or starting a potential Game 7, the nature of this injury makes that scenario unlikely at best.
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Rough night for balls and strikes.
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Maybe astros just wanted to clinch at home.
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I liked the Nationals fan blocking the home run with his chest so he didn't spill his two fisted beers.
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I liked the Nationals fan blocking the home run with his chest so he didn't spill his two fisted beers.
That was amazing.
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Uh-oh.
WASHINGTON — In a startling development that vastly alters the complexion of the World Series at its most pivotal moment, Washington Nationals ace Max Scherzer will not start Sunday night’s Game 5 after suffering severe irritation in a neck nerve and right trapezius, manager Dave Martinez announced.
Joe Ross will start in place of Scherzer, who started and won Game 1. While Martinez said Scherzer may return later in the series, either in relief of Stephen Strasburg in Game 6 or starting a potential Game 7, the nature of this injury makes that scenario unlikely at best.
Strangely, this may have worked out for the Nats, especially if Scherzer is available for game 7. The Nats were held to one run yet again, so even if Scherzer pitched, very good chance they lose anyway. I think Strasburg matches up well with Verlander, and if Scherzer can go, I like him against Greinke or anybody who will be available for the Astros in game 7 (Cole could probably give them an inning or two or three). Doesn't look great for the Nats, but they are not dead yet.
This has been a very uneventful/uninteresting World Series, unless of course you are invested in one of the teams. Other than game 1, the games have been rather dull. Game 3 was the only other decent game, as the Nationals threatened often but couldn't get a big hit.
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Strangely, this may have worked out for the Nats, especially if Scherzer is available for game 7. The Nats were held to one run yet again, so even if Scherzer pitched, very good chance they lose anyway. I think Strasburg matches up well with Verlander, and if Scherzer can go, I like him against Greinke or anybody who will be available for the Astros in game 7 (Cole could probably give them an inning or two or three). Doesn't look great for the Nats, but they are not dead yet.
This has been a very uneventful/uninteresting World Series, unless of course you are invested in one of the teams. Other than game 1, the games have been rather dull. Game 3 was the only other decent game, as the Nationals threatened often but couldn't get a big hit.
Agree on all of that. Will be rooting for a good game tomorrow night, hopefully with Strasburg besting Verlander.
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Astros owner writing an apology to the SI reporter who wrote about the assistant GM incident. Says they got it wrong and they shouldn't have written the response they did. The assistant GM should be suing the Astros for firing him, the MLB for suspending him, and the Astros owner for defamation. The guy was simply excited about his closer who gave up a game tying 2 run home run in the 9th inning. These people don't know his real intent. The assistant GM is about to be rolling in cash.
Maybe we need to not allow female reporters into the locker rooms and this would've never happened, hey?
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Astros owner writing an apology to the SI reporter who wrote about the assistant GM incident. Says they got it wrong and they shouldn't have written the response they did. The assistant GM should be suing the Astros for firing him, the MLB for suspending him, and the Astros owner for defamation. The guy was simply excited about his closer who gave up a game tying 2 run home run in the 9th inning. These people don't know his real intent. The assistant GM is about to be rolling in cash.
Maybe we need to not allow female reporters into the locker rooms and this would've never happened, hey?
At least we would get locker room talk back.
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Anyone catch the flashers last night? Behind home plate? LOL. This guy with the commentary.
https://youtu.be/QOsx6Yola6A
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Anyone catch the flashers last night? Behind home plate? LOL. This guy with the commentary.
https://youtu.be/QOsx6Yola6A
https://www.barstoolsports.com/baseball/ig-model-julia-rose-has-taken-credit-as-the-world-series-flasher
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/baseball/ig-model-julia-rose-has-taken-credit-as-the-world-series-flasher
God Bless America
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I can't believe I missed that last night. Must have been reading scoop.
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Must have been chanting "Lift them up"
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Must have been chanting "Lift them up"
Easy to get confused with what people are saying was the loudest applause in the history of baseball still echoing throughout the stadium.
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God Bless America
Cheeks,
They don’t do that in Montana.
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Must have been chanting "Lift them up"
Just spit out my Coke Zero...good one.
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Using her constitutional rights.
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Using her constitutional rights.
And left, apparently.
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Lots of boobs in attendance Sunday night, eh?
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Easy to get confused with what people are saying was the loudest applause in the history of baseball still echoing throughout the stadium.
People were saying...LOL
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Word on the street is it is going to be a "Brewers" script under the Amfam roofline.
There's a chance it was leaked.
(http://content.sportslogos.net/news/2019/10/milwaukee-brewers-new-logo-2020-leak-compare-with-old-590x466.jpg)
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Wow. What a game. Game 7. Two former Cy Young winners. Cool.
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I am not a baseball purist (except the DH - that's bullcrap), so I have no problem with robot umps. That said, they should have a fallback plan for when the robots develop egos that affect their calls too
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I am not a baseball purist (except the DH - that's bullcrap), so I have no problem with robot umps. That said, they should have a fallback plan for when the robots develop egos that affect their calls too
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NjH0fgbnxk4/XHcllEqUyLI/AAAAAAAATeg/8eKJKKgCBOAPqbXiLiJxIFJBwVxRW5y-gCLcBGAs/s1600/plateump-c3po.JPG)
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Managers and players might not like the robot ump as much as they think they will, but it would cut down on the whining.
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Managers and players might not like the robot ump as much as they think they will, but it would cut down on the whining.
I think the biggest gripe isn't so much "missing" balls and strikes, its inconsistency. A robo ump would cut down on that.
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I think the biggest gripe isn't so much "missing" balls and strikes, its inconsistency. A robo ump would cut down on that.
Agreed. I'd have absolutely no problem with using technology to call pitches.
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What if we allow each ump to have a custom bot so they can call their own distinct zone. It'd be fun until you see what Angel Hernandez's bot is calling.
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(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NjH0fgbnxk4/XHcllEqUyLI/AAAAAAAATeg/8eKJKKgCBOAPqbXiLiJxIFJBwVxRW5y-gCLcBGAs/s1600/plateump-c3po.JPG)
Honestly, this picture has made me laugh about a half dozen times today.
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There's a chance it was leaked.
(http://content.sportslogos.net/news/2019/10/milwaukee-brewers-new-logo-2020-leak-compare-with-old-590x466.jpg)
YUCK YUCK YUCK
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Agreed. I'd have absolutely no problem with using technology to call pitches.
I mean, there’s so many calls leading to ejections this year that were correct. There’s been ball and strike ejections still in the Atlantic league where this has been implemented. There will be some eyes opening when the robo ump calls a true strike zone. There will still be ejections
It’s a 162 game season played in freezing cold and scorching heat. Managers will always find something to complain about.
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There will be some eyes opening when the robo ump calls a true strike zone.
Yeah, that was the point I was making earlier. We'll see if the players want anything close to what the rule-book definition of the strike zone is.
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Too much thinking by Hinch.
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Great game tonight
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Too much thinking by Hinch.
That was a tough call. If he made the move immediately after the HR, I would agree.
After the walk I think a lot of managers would do what Hinch did.
But as good as Zack was pitching, I think there will be a lot of 2nd guessing.
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I’d have Strasburg start to get loose.
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That was a tough call. If he made the move immediately after the HR, I would agree.
After the walk I think a lot of managers would do what Hinch did.
But as good as Zack was pitching, I think there will be a lot of 2nd guessing.
Yeah, I know he really couldn't win there. Ifvge leaves Greinke in and Hendrick homers, it's "Why didn't he get him out of there?"
Before the inning, I said I'd have had Cole ready to go, and he's the one I'd have trusted if Greinke had to come out.
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Yeah, I know he really couldn't win there. Ifvge leaves Greinke in and Hendrick homers, it's "Why didn't he get him out of there?"
Before the inning, I said I'd have had Cole ready to go, and he's the one I'd have trusted if Greinke had to come out.
My thinking has definitely changed over the last couple of years. Three years ago, I would have been in favor of sticking with Greinke after the walk.
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I’d have Strasburg start to get loose.
They won’t risk it after so many pitches last night.
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They won’t risk it after so many pitches last night.
I understand it, but I’d still do it. This is it, no tomorrow.
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Not AJ Hinch’s greatest night.
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How 'bout Soto? How effen good is he gonna be?
And FWIW, I wouldn't use Statsburg.
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If I’m Martinez, I stick with Corbin in the 8th.
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If I’m Martinez, I stick with Corbin in the 8th.
Me too
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Correa victimized by Little League strike call.
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Correa victimized by Little League strike call.
Bring on the robot umps!
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Maybe Martinez was the mastermind behind the 2016 Cubs.
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Bring on the robot umps!
Eh ... next guy woulda hit into DP anyway.
I'd stick with Corbin for 9th. He's dealing and he's only thrown 43 pitches. And I don't trust any of their relievers.
It looks like Hinch will have lost this without using arguably the best pitcher in baseball, who was rested and ready to go.
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I'd stick with Corbin for 9th. He's dealing and he's only thrown 43 pitches.
The identical words I was going to type
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It looks like Hinch will have lost this without using arguably the best pitcher in baseball, who was rested and ready to go.
Got pre-game advice from Showalter.
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Not to sound like an anti-analytics codger but ... that incredible Morris-Smoltz war of 1991 couldn't happen today. They'd have both been taken out after 7 innings.
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It’d be a real shame if the Astros scored one run in the bottom and lost by the one insurance run Osuna gave up. A real shame.
(Greinke deserved better.)
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Sometimes I hate living in the Eastern time zone.
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Not to sound like an anti-analytics codger but ... that incredible Morris-Smoltz war of 1991 couldn't happen today. They'd have both been taken out after 7 innings.
The analytic departments are making a lot of the decisions that used to be strictly managerial decisions.
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Sox four consecutive complete games in the ‘05 ALCS will never happen again.
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300 game winner may never happen again.
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Nice work by Hudson finishing it off. I really like the Nats' "story." Glad they won.
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Sox four consecutive complete games in the ‘05 ALCS will never happen again.
True dat, Dish. And Contreras threw 8 1/3 innings in G1 before all the complete games started. Amazing
Numerous pitching records will never come close to getting broken. That's ok. Change happens.
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Good tallkin’ with you guys.
Be well.
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Seven game series...the home team was 0-7.
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Amazing that Nats were 19-31. I remember around Memorial Day wondering if they were gonna trade Strasburg and Rendon. I really enjoyed this series, cool to see a team that was close the last few years get over the hump. Party on to any Nats fans out there.
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Congrats to the Nats. Went to their home opener this season with my family. The return of Bryce Harper with the Phillies. Trea Turner broke his hand. Phillies won. National fans were pretty despondent about the rest of the season. But, their team survived Harpershima.
Side note: Now the entire starting rotation of the 2014 Tigers have won rings. Verlander, Scherzer, Price, Porcello, Sanchez. Not that I am bitter or anything.
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Good morning and congrats to the Nats and their fans. The team earned a World Championship. It truly did.
Has there ever been a World Series where the road team won every game? Incredible!
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Congrats to the Nats and to my cousin who is a Marquette grad who works for the team!
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So I wonder who will acquire Cole next season. My Yanks sure need starting pitching, but I'm not so sure they'll go after him.
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So I wonder who will acquire Cole next season. My Yanks sure need starting pitching, but I'm not so sure they'll go after him.
I will be shocked if he is not wearing an Angels or Dodgers jersey next season.
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I recall hearing often on sport's talk out here that he's a lifelong Yankees fan until he joined professional baseball.
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Yet another example that you don't need to open the vaults to sign big name free agents to succeed in the MLB.
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300 game winner may never happen again.
The way the games are trending now, you could have a 5th inning guy who completes the 5th inning 60 times a year when you have the lead and win 40-50 games like the best save guy gets 40-50 saves. You could end up with some strange things as strategy changes, so you can never say never.
In the old days you could average 18 wins a year 17-18 years and get to 300. Now you have to average 15 wins for 20 years, because wins are harder to come by when you are only pitching 6 or 7 innings for 32 or 33 starts.
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Good morning and congrats to the Nats and their fans. The team earned a World Championship. It truly did.
Has there ever been a World Series where the road team won every game? Incredible!
No, the Nats are the first team to lose three games at home and win a World Series and are the first team to win a World Series without winning a game at home.
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Congrats to the Nats. Went to their home opener this season with my family. The return of Bryce Harper with the Phillies. Trea Turner broke his hand. Phillies won. National fans were pretty despondent about the rest of the season. But, their team survived Harpershima.
Side note: Now the entire starting rotation of the 2014 Tigers have won rings. Verlander, Scherzer, Price, Porcello, Sanchez. Not that I am bitter or anything.
I feel for you Tower, those were some good teams in Detroit the first half of this decade. You have to be a little lucky as well as good to win the World Series.
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I feel for you Tower, those were some good teams in Detroit the first half of this decade. You have to be a little lucky as well as good to win the World Series.
Team speed and defense help, too. And keep Dombrowski away from your bullpen. And farm system.
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Yet another example that you don't need to open the vaults to sign big name free agents to succeed in the MLB.
What??? The Nats regularly spend in free agency. Scherzer and Corbin seem like glaring examples of pretty huge contracts.
They also have the 5th highest payroll.
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The way the games are trending now, you could have a 5th inning guy who completes the 5th inning 60 times a year when you have the lead and win 40-50 games like the best save guy gets 40-50 saves. You could end up with some strange things as strategy changes, so you can never say never.
In the old days you could average 18 wins a year 17-18 years and get to 300. Now you have to average 15 wins for 20 years, because wins are harder to come by when you are only pitching 6 or 7 innings for 32 or 33 starts.
It still boggles my mind that Cy Young won 511 games. Yes, I know that it was a very different time, but still...511 games?!! Take your pick: 25 wins per year for 20 years or 20 wins per year for 25 years; with another half-season worth of wins thrown in.
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Wins are not really relevant, so it's OK that it is deemphasized more. It should even be removed from boxscores IMO.
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Yet another example that you don't need to open the vaults to sign big name free agents to succeed in the MLB.
????? I guess it depends on what you define as big name and opening the vault.
Nationals had third highest payroll in baseball this year.
Bottom 10, two made the playoffs.
Top 10, five made the playoffs.
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What??? The Nats regularly spend in free agency. Scherzer and Corbin seem like glaring examples of pretty huge contracts.
They also have the 5th highest payroll.
Actually 3rd highest. https://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/salaries/2019/team/all/
Strasborg was highest paid player to start year. Scherzer second highest.
https://www.thestreet.com/lifestyle/sports/highest-paid-mlb-players-14880433
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I can't sit through 3 1/2-hour or 4-hour games, but I did watch the last 5 innings last night. (Though I did flip around to the NBA during commercials and I did do some cellphone chatting -- including on Scoop -- during the game.)
Entertaining, tense sports theater, with just enough decisions being made that it gave fans like us plenty to second guess.
It's still hard for me to believe that Hinch was willing to keep the best pitcher in baseball on the bench as he lost the game.
Although I would have kept Greinke in the game even after the walk, I do accept that there was a logical case to remove him. In that case, I go with Cole; there was no reason to not have him warming up as that inning started. And if I don't go with Cole for some reason, I have to go with Osuna (which I think Smoltz also said). Harris had been solid but had given up a huge HR the night before and Hinch himself had voiced concern that Harris was out of gas. Ugh.
But hey, at least Cole will be well-rested for his next outing!
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Maybe Martinez was the mastermind behind the 2016 Cubs.
And the Rays...
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Ewing theory
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Ewing theory
Except that Harper wasn't their best player last year. Or the year before that, or the year before that... and certainly wouldn't have been their best player this year.
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If anyone finds a .wav or .mp3 of the foul pole sound from Kendrick's HR, please post a link. I want to change the default sound effect on my PC from "Ding" to "Clung"
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Sometimes I hate living in the Eastern time zone.
Got rough staying up for the central time zone as well.
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Yet another example that you don't need to open the vaults to sign big name free agents to succeed in the MLB.
Maybe short term.
But if they don’t open the vault for Rendon & Strasburg, it’s just a one year blip.
3 out of 4 teams in the League Championship Series were 3 of the four biggest spenders. It’s ALWAYSA short window for the smaller money teams as Minnesota, Milwaukee, and Tampa Bay will find out
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Side note: Now the entire starting rotation of the 2014 Tigers have won rings. Verlander, Scherzer, Price, Porcello, Sanchez. Not that I am bitter or anything.
The point remains the same, but Drew Smyly, (who started that season as the #5 starter, and started 18 games to Price's 11 GS), is still without a ring.
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"@joe_sheehan
The team that hit more homers was 7-0 in the World Series, and 26-6 in the playoffs. Please take your smallball talk for a long walk off a short pier."
Just thought that was interesting.
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"@joe_sheehan
The team that hit more homers was 7-0 in the World Series, and 26-6 in the playoffs. Please take your smallball talk for a long walk off a short pier."
Just thought that was interesting.
The analytics guys knew this several years ago. The rising HR counts every year have happened for a reason. The interesting thing will be if MLB goes back to the ball they used several years ago and a lot of the HRs end up as flyouts on the warning track.
But for now, it is uppercut swings for hitters. For pitchers, it is the ability to best control the 3 true outcomes - strikeouts, walks, and HRs.
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How the Sox run their organization is embarrassing.
They traded an actual asset to save 500k. Ridiculous.
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The analytics guys knew this several years ago. The rising HR counts every year have happened for a reason. The interesting thing will be if MLB goes back to the ball they used several years ago and a lot of the HRs end up as flyouts on the warning track.
But for now, it is uppercut swings for hitters. For pitchers, it is the ability to best control the 3 true outcomes - strikeouts, walks, and HRs.
The best hitters dont have an uppercut swing. They just get on plane much sooner. It's the ted Williams style of swing.
This is in on contrast to the Charlie Lau school, which was taught in the 70s-90s that you would swing down to the ball, hit it on top to create backspin.
Advanced analytics and slo-mo video have proven the on plate swing is a better eay to hot. Thus launch angle, exit velocity, etc are the key factors now.
The days of squish the bug are done.
MLB will either change the ball, either how tightly it is wound or the height of the stitching, to "correct" the huge advantage hitters have over pitchers now. That is, if MLB wants to. More home runs=ratings and butts in the seats.
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MLB will either change the ball, either how tightly it is wound or the height of the stitching, to "correct" the huge advantage hitters have over pitchers now. That is, if MLB wants to. More home runs=ratings and butts in the seats.
I'm not sure that's true anymore. This season featured an all-time record of homers hit, but TV ratings and attendance continued to fall.
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The best hitters dont have an uppercut swing. They just get on plane much sooner. It's the ted Williams style of swing.
You are right and wrong.
Yes, they get on the plane much sooner. But. the ball is moving downward on any pitch in the strike zone, so to get on the plane means a slight uppercut since optimum launch angle is around 27 degrees. A completely level swing gives a smaller area on the bat with which to make solid contact with the ball.
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I'm not sure that's true anymore. This season featured an all-time record of homers hit, but TV ratings and attendance continued to fall.
I think they’d fall even further without the home run being so prominent. Length and pace of game, and regionalization of the broadcasting IMO are the biggest problems.
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I think they’d fall even further without the home run being so prominent. Length and pace of game, and regionalization of the broadcasting IMO are the biggest problems.
Agreed, I find it impossible to dedicate 3-4 hours to a game when they are playing 6 games a week. They really need to find a way to cut the games to 2.5 hours on average.
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LoCain finally wins the Gold Glove.
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Mike Leake wins the Gold Glove for the AL, but finishes the season in the NL.
Zak Grienke wins the Gold Glove for the NL, but finishes the season in the AL.
Without looking it up, I'd assume there's no way that has happened before.
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How do they play defense with gold gloves? I would think those gloves would have very poor flexibility.
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How do they play defense with gold gloves? I would think those gloves would have very poor flexibility.
probable easier than with Golden Gloves.
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How do they play defense with gold gloves? I would think those gloves would have very poor flexibility.
Gold is soft and malleable. Probably easier to break in than a new piece of leather from Dick's.
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Guess the Brewers are doing the "young pitchers will definitely take a step forward" thing again, huh?
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Gold is soft and malleable. Probably easier to break in than a new piece of leather from Dick's.
Dick's sporting goods will steam the glove and make the leather soft and malleable. For a price.
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Mike Leake wins the Gold Glove for the AL, but finishes the season in the NL.
Zak Grienke wins the Gold Glove for the NL, but finishes the season in the AL.
Without looking it up, I'd assume there's no way that has happened before.
And Peralta was so great , he won while playing 1/2 season.
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Brewers not picking up the $7.5 million option on Thames, who is a now a free agent. Going to be a busy off season.
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Guess the Brewers are doing the "young pitchers will definitely take a step forward" thing again, huh?
I’m hoping this is to shed salary to be active in the FA and trade market. However, that may go to Grandal and Moose.
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I’m hoping this is to shed salary to be active in the FA and trade market. However, that may go to Grandal and Moose.
This is what it looks like to me. Neither Anderson or Thames is dramatically overpriced at $8.5 and $7.5, particulalry if you're planning for them to be, say, your #4 starter and 70% of your first base ABs. I think Stearns is preparing to make some bigger plays.
My bet would be on Moose being a part of that, but I think Grandal walks.
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This is what it looks like to me. Neither Anderson or Thames is dramatically overpriced at $8.5 and $7.5, particulalry if you're planning for them to be, say, your #4 starter and 70% of your first base ABs. I think Stearns is preparing to make some bigger plays.
My bet would be on Moose being a part of that, but I think Grandal walks.
Those were my thoughts as well.
Anderson had become a 4-5 inning starter. And .240 hitters with 25 HRs are almost a dime a dozen. I, too, expect Moose back on a 2or 3 year deal.
I expect they”ll also sign 2-3 pitchers.
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You guys think the sign Moose for 3rd and give Shaw a shot at 1st, maybe as part of a platoon?
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You guys think the sign Moose for 3rd and give Shaw a shot at 1st, maybe as part of a platoon?
Hopefully Shaw doesn't need to play. Ever. But I'm hoping Braun moves to 1B full time and Grisham gets a shot in LF. I'd love to see Grandal back and playing 1B against righties on days we want Braun sitting.
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Brewers making room for Cole and Strasburg.
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A couple of interesting names getting qualifying offers. Jose Abreu, though its kind of been a foregone conclusion he works something out with CWS, so probably not too big of a surprise. Was suprised to see Will Smith get one. That will make him the third highest paid reliever by AAV next year.
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Hopefully Shaw doesn't need to play. Ever. But I'm hoping Braun moves to 1B full time and Grisham gets a shot in LF. I'd love to see Grandal back and playing 1B against righties on days we want Braun sitting.
I like the plan. Grish has some real potential I think and the Crew always needs some young, low cost guys.
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Hopefully Shaw doesn't need to play. Ever. But I'm hoping Braun moves to 1B full time and Grisham gets a shot in LF. I'd love to see Grandal back and playing 1B against righties on days we want Braun sitting.
This. Who knows what Stearns has planned, but it's hard to foresee considering this offseason a success if we don't retain Yaz. Value above replacement for that position is too high.
I saw MLB trade rumors projected him to get 4/68M (from the Reds). I do that AAV in a heartbeat.
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Happy for some of the Nats old vets like Zimmerman, Suzuki (local Cal State Fullerton player), Javvy...likely their only championship and got it just before Father Time ran out the clock on their playing career.
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Wait a doggone second ...
I just realized we had a Gold Glove discussion earlier ... and Javy Baez didn't win? And then I looked at the list of finalists, and he wasn't even one of those?
The greatest tagger since the game of tag was invented by Taggar T. Taggart?
Really? How is that possible?
Yeah, he missed the last month, but he had 5 months filled with the taggiest tags ever! And is it really true that he has never won a GG?
I demand a recount, not just for this season but for his entire career! Heck, I can't believe he didn't win the 1979 Gold Glove in anticipation of all the tags he eventually would make!!
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Wait a doggone second ...
I just realized we had a Gold Glove discussion earlier ... and Javy Baez didn't win? And then I looked at the list of finalists, and he wasn't even one of those?
The greatest tagger since the game of tag was invented by Taggar T. Taggart?
Really? How is that possible?
Yeah, he missed the last month, but he had 5 months filled with the taggiest tags ever! And is it really true that he has never won a GG?
I demand a recount, not just for this season but for his entire career! Heck, I can't believe he didn't win the 1979 Gold Glove in anticipation of all the tags he eventually would make!!
There was a special ceremony in Chicago where Baez accepted his award with Adam Engel (I hope I spelled that correctly).
They played highlights of Adam's two catches against the Rays or whatever the hell everyone was excited about that one day.
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Wait a doggone second ...
I just realized we had a Gold Glove discussion earlier ... and Javy Baez didn't win? And then I looked at the list of finalists, and he wasn't even one of those?
The greatest tagger since the game of tag was invented by Taggar T. Taggart?
Really? How is that possible?
Yeah, he missed the last month, but he had 5 months filled with the taggiest tags ever! And is it really true that he has never won a GG?
I demand a recount, not just for this season but for his entire career! Heck, I can't believe he didn't win the 1979 Gold Glove in anticipation of all the tags he eventually would make!!
Mike, I'd like to believe you were better than weak trolls that were barely amusing the first time, but I guess I'm wrong. Pander to low hanging fruit i suppose.
Chapman and Arenado win again at 3B. Short of some absolutely transcendent young talent appearing or injury, hard to see anyone else winning GGs at 3rd over the next 4-5 years.
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Mike, I'd like to believe you were better than weak trolls that were barely amusing the first time, but I guess I'm wrong. Pander to low hanging fruit i suppose.
Chapman and Arenado win again at 3B. Short of some absolutely transcendent young talent appearing or injury, hard to see anyone else winning GGs at 3rd over the next 4-5 years.
C'mon Wags ... just having some fun.
Agree about 3B GGs.
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Ryan M. Spaeder
@theaceofspaeder
Two ballplayers who will be on the Hall of Fame Ballot:
Derek Jeter (1st):
.310/.377/.440
72.4 rWAR | 73.0 fWAR
115 OPS+
119 wRC+
.360 wOBA
5 Gold Gloves (-243.3 DRS)
Larry Walker (10th):
.313/.400./565
72.7 rWAR | 68.7 fWAR
141 OPS+
140 wRC+
.412 wOBA
7 Gold Gloves (93.9 DRS)
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Ryan M. Spaeder
@theaceofspaeder
Two ballplayers who will be on the Hall of Fame Ballot:
Derek Jeter (1st):
.310/.377/.440
72.4 rWAR | 73.0 fWAR
115 OPS+
119 wRC+
.360 wOBA
5 Gold Gloves (-243.3 DRS)
Larry Walker (10th):
.313/.400./565
72.7 rWAR | 68.7 fWAR
141 OPS+
140 wRC+
.412 wOBA
7 Gold Gloves (93.9 DRS)
So, I think Walker should get in, but this comparison is ridiculous. In what world are a SS, and a corner OF who played 10 seasons in Colorado legitimate comps? Also only showing the ratios is only part of the picture. I believe that Jeter was the youngest player ever to reach 3000 hits.
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Jeter is a no-brainer. Walker is borderline, which is why he can't get 75% of the vote.
Agree with buck that they are not comparable players.
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So, I think Walker should get in, but this comparison is ridiculous. In what world are a SS, and a corner OF who played 10 seasons in Colorado legitimate comps? Also only showing the ratios is only part of the picture. I believe that Jeter was the youngest player ever to reach 3000 hits.
It just came on my Twitter feed, and I thought it was interesting. I think Jeter is a HOF because he's extremely famous, and that is what the "Hall is of."
For the sake of argument, Jeter is the 4th youngest to get to 3k, (two weeks older than Yount was; 8 days younger than Pete Rose was) and OPS+ is supposed to factor in the ballpark, (the Rockies have been around for 25 years now; somebody's going to have to make it in).
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It just came on my Twitter feed, and I thought it was interesting. I think Jeter is a HOF because he's extremely famous, and that is what the "Hall is of."
For the sake of argument, Jeter is the 4th youngest to get to 3k, (two weeks older than Yount was; 8 days younger than Pete Rose was) and OPS+ is supposed to factor in the ballpark, (the Rockies have been around for 25 years now; somebody's going to have to make it in).
The fact that Jeter played in NY and is "extremely famous" no doubt helps him.
But he also had outstanding career stats, especially for a shortstop. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 8 times. And he was an instrumental contributor to 5 championship teams.
A no-brainer.
If you feel that Larry Walker also deserves HoF status, that's cool. A strong argument certainly could be made for him. But it doesn't really help his case to compare him to Jeter IMHO.
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The fact that Jeter played in NY and is "extremely famous" no doubt helps him.
But he also had outstanding career stats, especially for a shortstop. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 8 times. And he was an instrumental contributor to 5 championship teams.
A no-brainer.
If you feel that Larry Walker also deserves HoF status, that's cool. A strong argument certainly could be made for him. But it doesn't really help his case to compare him to Jeter IMHO.
Just my opinion, but Walker would already be in the HoF if he had never played in Colorado.
First 5 years of careers?
Jeter 23.5 WAR
Walker 22.2 WAR as an Expo (no Coors inflated stats)
Yankee stadium is also a better hitters park than Olympic stadium in Montreal.
Walker was an outstanding defender his entire career. Jeter was a bad defender the latter half of his career.
Playing in Coors has kept voters from electing Walker.
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Just my opinion, but Walker would already be in the HoF if he had never played in Colorado.
First 5 years of careers?
Jeter 23.5 WAR
Walker 22.2 WAR as an Expo (no Coors inflated stats)
Yankee stadium is also a better hitters park than Olympic stadium in Montreal.
Walker was an outstanding defender his entire career. Jeter was a bad defender the latter half of his career.
Playing in Coors has kept voters from electing Walker.
That could be true.
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That could be true.
Just my opinion. Baseball is the most fun of any sport to argue about due to its long history and myriad of stats.
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Just my opinion. Baseball is the most fun of any sport to argue about due to its long history and myriad of stats.
When we were in college, one of the many reasons my buddies and I used to go to Midget Tap was because the owner, Frank, kept a Baseball Encyclopedia behind the bar. Settled many arguments in the era looooong before the googles existed.
But yeah, I agree. One can imagine Lou Gehrig, Bob Feller and Willie Mays still being superstars today. Harder to imagine Hopalong Cassidy and Bill Bradley being superstars today in their respective sports.
When discussing best ballplayer ever, if it comes down to, say, Ruth, Aaron, Williams, Mays and Bonds, I usually counter with ... "Oh, how many consecutive scoreless innings in the World Series did Aaron, Williams, Mays and Bonds pitch?" It's incredible to think that Babe was considered more valuable as a pitcher early in his career!
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The fact that Jeter played in NY and is "extremely famous" no doubt helps him.
But he also had outstanding career stats, especially for a shortstop. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 8 times. And he was an instrumental contributor to 5 championship teams.
A no-brainer.
If you feel that Larry Walker also deserves HoF status, that's cool. A strong argument certainly could be made for him. But it doesn't really help his case to compare him to Jeter IMHO.
The only time Top 10 MVP finishes are discussed is when the player never won the award. Larry Walker was an actual MVP in 1997.
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Walker played parts of 17 seasons in the bigs. Only 4 times did he play more than 140 games. Old stats, newer “advanced” stats, whatever. You need to be an everyday player more than 4 times in your career to make it into the HOF.
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Walker played parts of 17 seasons in the bigs. Only 4 times did he play more than 140 games. Old stats, newer “advanced” stats, whatever. You need to be an everyday player more than 4 times in your career to make it into the HOF.
He had 6 more seasons with at least 130 games.
Should we kick Koufax out of the HoF. He only had 4 seasons with 28 or more starts.
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The only time Top 10 MVP finishes are discussed is when the player never won the award.
That is absolutely not true.
I clearly remember one of the arguments for Jim Rice was "He finished in the top 5 in MVP voting 6 times, including winning the MVP in 1978." Similar arguments for Frank Thomas, who won the award twice.
That a shortstop finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 8 times is effen amazing. It goes to a consistency of excellent play, compared to his peers, over a long stretch of time. Add in his play in helping his team win championships, as well as his accumulated stats ... again, it's a no-brainer. He will be a first-ballot HoFer, and he should be.
Again, I'm not arguing against Walker. He's a borderline case, and arguments can be made for him. He and Jeter simply aren't comps. You might as well be comparing Walker to a pitcher.
He had 6 more seasons with at least 130 games.
Should we kick Koufax out of the HoF. He only had 4 seasons with 28 or more starts.
I understand what you're saying here, but there are many HoF hitters who consider Koufax the greatest pitcher who ever lived. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many HoF pitchers who consider Larry Walker the greatest hitter who ever lived.
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I didn’t mean to compare Walker to Koufax. Sandy was surely the greatest pitcher that I ever saw. I was just making a point.
Incidentally, all those complainers about “soft” pitchers of today only need to look at Koufax / Drysdale to see what happens when pitchers are abused.
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The only time Top 10 MVP finishes are discussed is when the player never won the award. Larry Walker was an actual MVP in 1997.
1 time MVP is a ticket to the HOF? Someone should tell Dale Murphy.
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I didn’t mean to compare Walker to Koufax. Sandy was surely the greatest pitcher that I ever saw. I was just making a point.
Incidentally, all those complainers about “soft” pitchers of today only need to look at Koufax / Drysdale to see what happens when pitchers are abused.
Yeah, I know you weren't comparing them, brand. Sorry if it appears I suggest you were.
Good point about the "soft" pitchers. The thing that gets some of us is when even the coddled pitchers break down. There is probably some happy medium, but I obviously don't know what it is. In the end, each pitcher is different. Some, for whatever reason, can be "workhorses," while some will never be more than 5-inning guys who need extra days of rest.
I will say that it's a lot harder to whine about the Nats' coddling of Strasburg early in his career after what he did this past October. He was everything they dreamed he would be the day they drafted him. Strasburg probably didn't like it way back when, but he is now a WS champion and is about to become one of the highest paid athletes in sports history.
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1 time MVP is a ticket to the HOF? Someone should tell Dale Murphy.
Of course not, (unless they want to open up a "Justin Morneau Wing" of Cooperstown).
Again, I absolutely think Jeter is a HOfer. However, I disagree with the idea he is head-and-shoulders above Walker. Merely pointing out Jeter was never deemed the best player in the league, (and Walker was once).
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Of course not, (unless they want to open up a "Justin Morneau Wing" of Cooperstown).
Again, I absolutely think Jeter is a HOfer. However, I disagree with the idea he is head-and-shoulders above Walker. Merely pointing out Jeter was never deemed the best player in the league, (and Walker was once).
Jeter is the most overrated “great” player of my lifetime, IMO. A really good player who never had serious injury and played for the most iconic team in the biggest market during their best stretch since the 50s, which made him iconic. He doesn’t win a single Silver Slugger if A Rod doesn’t come to the Yankees and move positions, IMO. He hit for gold average but not much else. There is also a good chance that he’s the only SS (besides A Rod) of that late 90s-2000s era to make the HOF, especially from the AL. Just wasn’t a lot of transcendent talent at the position during the time, which made him elevate in comparisons. If Jeter has his career (stats, not rings) for the Royals or the Padres, it’s a diff narrative IMO
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Jeter is the most overrated “great” player of my lifetime, IMO. A really good player who never had serious injury and played for the most iconic team in the biggest market during their best stretch since the 50s, which made him iconic. He doesn’t win a single Silver Slugger if A Rod doesn’t come to the Yankees and move positions, IMO. He hit for gold average but not much else. There is also a good chance that he’s the only SS (besides A Rod) of that late 90s-2000s era to make the HOF, especially from the AL. Just wasn’t a lot of transcendent talent at the position during the time, which made him elevate in comparisons. If Jeter has his career (stats, not rings) for the Royals or the Padres, it’s a diff narrative IMO
Here's some interesting Jeter stats/numbers/accomplishments: https://www.espn.com/blog/jayson-stark/post/_/id/952/ten-astounding-derek-jeter-numbers
I'm torn on Jeter. I agree with you, that playing in the NYC spotlight and on those 90s Yankee teams was a significant advantage. That said, the guy did put up some amazing numbers, in company with the all-time greats of the game.
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Jeter is the most overrated “great” player of my lifetime, IMO. A really good player who never had serious injury and played for the most iconic team in the biggest market during their best stretch since the 50s, which made him iconic. He doesn’t win a single Silver Slugger if A Rod doesn’t come to the Yankees and move positions, IMO. He hit for gold average but not much else. There is also a good chance that he’s the only SS (besides A Rod) of that late 90s-2000s era to make the HOF, especially from the AL. Just wasn’t a lot of transcendent talent at the position during the time, which made him elevate in comparisons. If Jeter has his career (stats, not rings) for the Royals or the Padres, it’s a diff narrative IMO
OF course it is a different narrative, but he is still a first ballot HOFer.
He is 6th all time in hits. 6th. In baseball history. This is a silly discussion. Only 5 guys in history have more hits and people think he is only good becuase he was a Yankee? What planet is this. The 5 guys with more hits are Rose, Cobb, Aaron, Musial and Speaker.
If anything the stupid Yankee narrative makes people overlook what a tremendous hitter he was. Over a 20 year career he averaged more than 200 hits per 162. And he hit some HRs, and drove in runs, and stole bases, and walked and hit doubles. He was a great hitter, and a very complete offensive player at the most important defensive position in the game.
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OF course it is a different narrative, but he is still a first ballot HOFer.
He is 6th all time in hits. 6th. In baseball history. This is a silly discussion. Only 5 guys in history have more hits and people think he is only good becuase he was a Yankee? What planet is this. The 5 guys with more hits are Rose, Cobb, Aaron, Musial and Speaker.
If anything the stupid Yankee narrative makes people overlook what a tremendous hitter he was. Over a 20 year career he averaged more than 200 hits per 162. And he hit some HRs, and drove in runs, and stole bases, and walked and hit doubles. He was a great hitter, and a very complete offensive player at the most important defensive position in the game.
Where did I ever say he was only good cause he was a Yankee? Or that he wasn't a HOF player?
Paul Molitor has 100ish less hits than him, but had 400 less ABs. Also hit 50 more doubles and 50 more triples over his career and stole way more bases. Of course Molitor is a first ballot HOF as well, but he's not talked about in the hushed tones Jeter is.
And you wanna talk defense? Look up Jeter in any advanced metric for defense and he ranged from average to pretty bad. His UZR and Defensive WAR are terrible, even for a SS. He won Gold Gloves cause he was the shortstop for the mighty Yankees and cause he wasn't a habitual ground ball booter. But his range and arm were always mediocre.
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I didn't mean to start anything. I actually really like Derek Jeter.
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I didn't mean to start anything. I actually really like Derek Jeter.
I appreciate that you brought up the subject. It’s been a very good discussion.
Baseball is always fun to talk/argue about.
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Where did I ever say he was only good cause he was a Yankee? Or that he wasn't a HOF player?
Paul Molitor has 100ish less hits than him, but had 400 less ABs. Also hit 50 more doubles and 50 more triples over his career and stole way more bases. Of course Molitor is a first ballot HOF as well, but he's not talked about in the hust tones Jeter is.
And you wanna talk defense? Look up Jeter in any advanced metric for defense and he ranged from average to pretty bad. His UZR and Defensive WAR are terrible, even for a SS. He won Gold Gloves cause he was the shortstop for the mighty Yankees and cause he wasn't a habitual ground ball booter. But his range and arm were always mediocre.
Ok, so is the problem with Jeter that he is more famous because he was on the Yankees? That is certainly true.
Molitor is an interesting comparison. Another first ballot HOF player, and a great hitter, and a long and distinguished career. He also had the exact same career OPS as Jeter. And if you want to talk defense, the plurality of Molitor's games were played as DH. So Jeter had basically the same offensive output as a guy that played almost 1200 of his games as a DH. Even if he was a below average SS, that is still adding more value than a guy playing DH and putting up the same numbers. To me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to compare guys that aren't middle infielders to the middle infielders. Molitor player a little middle infield, but was quickly moved to 3rd, then of, then DH. That doesn't scream plus defender to me.
Jeter is also likely more revered because he was the catalyst to a team that played in 7 World Series and won 5 of them. That certainly adds to his legend and the reverence he is given.
It is completely true that being on MLB's marquee franchise adds to his legend. But he is a legend regardless.
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OF course it is a different narrative, but he is still a first ballot HOFer.
He is 6th all time in hits. 6th. In baseball history. This is a silly discussion. Only 5 guys in history have more hits and people think he is only good becuase he was a Yankee? What planet is this. The 5 guys with more hits are Rose, Cobb, Aaron, Musial and Speaker.
If anything the stupid Yankee narrative makes people overlook what a tremendous hitter he was. Over a 20 year career he averaged more than 200 hits per 162. And he hit some HRs, and drove in runs, and stole bases, and walked and hit doubles. He was a great hitter, and a very complete offensive player at the most important defensive position in the game.
You beat me to it.
In a weird way, he actually is underrated because so many think he is overrated.
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Ok, so is the problem with Jeter that he is more famous because he was on the Yankees? That is certainly true.
Molitor is an interesting comparison. Another first ballot HOF player, and a great hitter, and a long and distinguished career. He also had the exact same career OPS as Jeter. And if you want to talk defense, the plurality of Molitor's games were played as DH. So Jeter had basically the same offensive output as a guy that played almost 1200 of his games as a DH. Even if he was a below average SS, that is still adding more value than a guy playing DH and putting up the same numbers. To me, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to compare guys that aren't middle infielders to the middle infielders. Molitor player a little middle infield, but was quickly moved to 3rd, then of, then DH. That doesn't scream plus defender to me.
Jeter is also likely more revered because he was the catalyst to a team that played in 7 World Series and won 5 of them. That certainly adds to his legend and the reverence he is given.
It is completely true that being on MLB's marquee franchise adds to his legend. But he is a legend regardless.
I think we ALL agree that Jeter is a HoF’er.
Many also think he would not be a legend if he had played for KC, Miami, SD, etc.
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I think we ALL agree that Jeter is a HoF’er.
Many also think he would not be a legend if he had played for KC, Miami, SD, etc.
Maybe my issue comes from mis-remembering. I was a kid, but I remember guys like Molitor, Yount, Brett and Gwynn being completely revered for their hitting prowess. At the time they played, and after. I think their legends have dissipated a little, but it is probably just because they are more removed from their playing careers. Gwynn may be a little more of an exception as his legend still seems to loom pretty largely. But those guys, along with Wade Boggs, were the elite names of guys that held that "pure hitter" mantle through out the 80s and early 90's ( I know Brett was also in the 70s, but I wasn't alive so I can't attest to anything there).
Maybe another reason why their aura's are fading a bit is the trend in baseball and stats away from batting average. For all those guys above, hitting was their strength. Just pure hitting ability. Now, it seems that no one cares if a guys hits .315, all that matters in walking 80+ times, regardless of how many hits a guy accumulates.
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Ruh-roh.
Astros used an outfield camera in 2017 to steal signs.
https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019/11/12/the-astros-stole-signs-electronically-in-2017-part-of-a-much-broader-issue-for-major-league-baseball/
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Ruh-roh.
Astros used an outfield camera in 2017 to steal signs.
https://theathletic.com/1363451/2019/11/12/the-astros-stole-signs-electronically-in-2017-part-of-a-much-broader-issue-for-major-league-baseball/
...and nobody was surprised. It was so blatant in one game that Danny Farquhar (pitcher for the White Sox at the time) had to step off the mound to switch signs with his catcher. Pretty good breakdown of it here:
https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1194348775965437952
Imagine having to steal signs from the 2017 White Sox.
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It was commented on during the playoff broadcasts that opposing catchers were going through their routines with no one on base the same way they would if there was a runner on second.
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Astros are a sham and should have their world series stripped.
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Astros are a sham and should have their world series stripped.
The Red Sox were caught doing something similar a couple years ago, and if I remember correctly, Manfred promised real consequences if it happened again.
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No one is getting their Series stripped.
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Astros are a sham and should have their world series stripped.
Correct. And the only just thing to do is to award the '17 Series Championship to the winners the previous season. So, congratulations to the back-to-back World Series Champion 2017 Chicago Cubs!
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Correct. And the only just thing to do is to award the '17 Series Championship to the winners the previous season. So, congratulations to the back-to-back World Series Champion 2017 Chicago Cubs!
Most logical.
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Doesn't sound like the Giants are too thrilled about their new manager.
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Doesn't sound like the Giants are too thrilled about their new manager.
Maybe they know some guys on the Phillies.
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As expectected, Bellinger and Trout win MVPs
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As expectected, Bellinger and Trout win MVPs
It's bad enough giving MVP to a guy on a team that never sniffs being in contention all season, but now he gets it even if he can't play the last month of another lost season?
I appreciate how supremely talented Trout is. Who knows? Maybe by the time he's done he's one of the top 5 players in the history of baseball. But if you're gonna give it to a guy who plays 5 months for a crap team, change the name of the award to something like the Willie Mays Player of the Year Award.
Because these last few years, Trout has been no more "valuable" in helping his team contend for anything that matters than you or I have been.
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It's bad enough giving MVP to a guy on a team that never sniffs being in contention all season, but now he gets it even if he can't play the last month of another lost season?
I appreciate how supremely talented Trout is. Who knows? Maybe by the time he's done he's one of the top 5 players in the history of baseball. But if you're gonna give it to a guy who plays 5 months for a crap team, change the name of the award to something like the Willie Mays Player of the Year Award.
Because these last few years, Trout has been no more "valuable" in helping his team contend for anything that matters than you or I have been.
LOL.
Mike Trout, best player on planet. Period.
Turn in your Erin Andrews card with the drivel above you wrote.
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LOL.
Mike Trout, best player on planet. Period.
Turn in your Erin Andrews cars with the drivel above you wrote.
Your second sentence ... huh?
As for Trout's status of greatness, I said nothing different. In fact, I said he could end up being one of the 5 best players of all-time.
But he is so "valuable" to the Angels that they might never be able to contend without him. Oh wait ...
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Your second sentence ... huh?
As for Trout's status of greatness, I said nothing different. In fact, I said he could end up being one of the 5 best players of all-time.
But he is so "valuable" to the Angels that they might never be able to contend without him. Oh wait ...
Allegedly you were a baseball writer at one point in time.
Tell me, how much one position player can do if the pitching staff is horrible and the surrounding position players are mostly average?
Have you seen the number lately of MVPs in baseball that didn’t make the playoffs? I realize back in your day it was sacrilege to have someone be MVP and not be on a contending team until Dawson. That has changed...as it should.
Did you ever take a moment to think without him how much worse that team would be? If you were to start a team today, who is the first pick? That’s your MVP...glad I am 10 minutes away to see him play so often. Hopefully the team shores up the pitching to help him out, and yes he is the most valuable player in baseball bar none.
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Allegedly you were a baseball writer at one point in time.
Tell me, how much one position player can do if the pitching staff is horrible and the surrounding position players are mostly average?
Have you seen the number lately of MVPs in baseball that didn’t make the playoffs? I realize back in your day it was sacrilege to have someone be MVP and not be on a contending team until Dawson. That has changed...as it should.
Did you ever take a moment to think without him how much worse that team would be? If you were to start a team today, who is the first pick? That’s your MVP...glad I am 10 minutes away to see him play so often. Hopefully the team shores up the pitching to help him out, and yes he is the most valuable player in baseball bar none.
I happen to disagree that the MVP should come from a team that is 1,000 games out of first place at the end of April.
It goes to how I define value. Others obviously define it differently, because the star of a team that finishes 1,000 games out of first place every year keeps winning it. Voters are given great latitude in how they define "valuable," and I wouldn't have it any other way. I just happen to disagree with them.
When was the last time Mike Trout played a "pressure game"? When was the last time he had to come through in the clutch to keep his team in the pennant race? I think it matters that for years not a single at-bat Trout has had after the All-Star break has mattered for the Angels in the standings. It is "easier" to hit when facing zero pressure.
I know it's not his fault that he hasn't had a pressure game in 5 years. I happen to think he is a transcendent player and I would love to see how he would do when the pressure's on. In the very small sample size we have so far -- the 2014 ALDS -- he was 1-for-12 for a team that got swept. I don't think that "defines" him any more than Ted Williams' poor postseason numbers define him; I just wish we got to see how he'd perform when everything's on the line.
Obviously, MVP voters don't think it makes a difference. This year, he barely even played in September and he still got the award. Thinking about it now, I guess that makes sense given that he hasn't had an important September at-bat in years and years.
Finally, I haven't insulted you at all in this discussion but you revealed your character yet again. You even brought out your weird and tired Erin Andrews compulsion with a totally nonsensical statement.
Have a lovely evening.
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Your second sentence ... huh?
As for Trout's status of greatness, I said nothing different. In fact, I said he could end up being one of the 5 best players of all-time.
But he is so "valuable" to the Angels that they might never be able to contend without him. Oh wait ...
I love saber metrics, advanced stats, etc. They're generally much better at determining a player's value than traditional (batting average, rbis, wins, etc.) statistics. That said, I think just giving the MVP to the player with the highest WAR is ridiculous. I think there is real value (and pressure) involved in being the leader of a team that actually accomplishes something. Most valuable is not synonymous with "best". But arguing with people who don't understand that is fruitless.
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I love saber metrics, advanced stats, etc. They're generally much better at determining a player's value than traditional (batting average, rbis, wins, etc.) statistics. That said, I think just giving the MVP to the player with the highest WAR is ridiculous. I think there is real value (and pressure) involved in being the leader of a team that actually accomplishes something. Most valuable is not synonymous with "best". But arguing with people who don't understand that is fruitless.
If Trout (or anybody) is head and shoulders above everybody else I could see voting for him even though he is on a bad team. This year the difference between Trout and Bregman was small enough that I would have given it to the guy who finished the season and made the playoffs. Not going to lose any sleep over it, however, as Trout was tremendous this year.
Most valuable is tough to quantify because I think the Astros still would have won the division with an average third baseman.
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If Trout (or anybody) is head and shoulders above everybody else I could see voting for him even though he is on a bad team. This year the difference between Trout and Bregman was small enough that I would have given it to the guy who finished the season and made the playoffs. Not going to lose any sleep over it, however, as Trout was tremendous this year.
Most valuable is tough to quantify because I think the Astros still would have won the division with an average third baseman.
Well, and you have to account for Bregman's numbers being artificially inflated because he knew what pitches were coming.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristianYelich/status/1195462269594812417
Yeli just absolutely owned Yu.
Also, the person who originally made the claim needs to learn positions on a baseball field before he makes claims of Yeli stealing signs.
1) Yeli looks out to right field.
2) The camera immediately changes to the wide view and Yu is already off the rubber, so clearly he didn’t step off as a result of seeing Yeli’s eyes look for a signal from...
3) The Cubs, not Brewers, bullpen is in right field. So the Cubs bullpen is giving Yeli signals? Awesome. No wonder they stunk this year.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristianYelich/status/1195462269594812417
Yeli just absolutely owned Yu.
Also, the person who originally made the claim needs to learn positions on a baseball field before he makes claims of Yeli stealing signs.
1) Yeli looks out to right field.
2) The camera immediately changes to the wide view and Yu is already off the rubber, so clearly he didn’t step off as a result of seeing Yeli’s eyes look for a signal from...
3) The Cubs, not Brewers, bullpen is in right field. So the Cubs bullpen is giving Yeli signals? Awesome. No wonder they stunk this year.
To be fair, this is Bleacher Nation and this Spencer clown trying to start something. Yeli focused on the wrong tweet, cause Darvish literally says it doesnt mean the Brewers are stealing signs. Just explained why he stepped off. Was ready to groan at Darvish being salty, but at worst it comes off as clumsily worded from an ESL tweeter.
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To be fair, this is Bleacher Nation and this Spencer clown trying to start something. Yeli focused on the wrong tweet, cause Darvish literally says it doesnt mean the Brewers are stealing signs. Just explained why he stepped off. Was ready to groan at Darvish being salty, but at worst it comes off as clumsily worded from an ESL tweeter.
Ny problem is more with the original Tweet. But really to Yu’s response? So you were looking into Yeli’s eyes rather than at your catcher’s signs? It’s not like Yeli cranked his head around. And by the time the camera angle switches back, which is a millisecond after Yeli’s eyes shift to RIGHT field, Yu’s already off the rubber. I find it impossibly hard to believe 1) Yu saw Yeli’s eyes shift and 2) Yu stepped off at the exact same time as a result. But maybe.
The whole thing is hilarious. Every team at least tries to steal signs. But one thing I know for sure is teams aren’t stealing signs by looking into their opponent’s bullpen. I’m very confident saying that.
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Ny problem is more with the original Tweet. But really to Yu’s response? So you were looking into Yeli’s eyes rather than at your catcher’s signs? It’s not like Yeli cranked his head around. And by the time the camera angle switches back, which is a millisecond after Yeli’s eyes shift to RIGHT field, Yu’s already off the rubber. I find it impossibly hard to believe 1) Yu saw Yeli’s eyes shift and 2) Yu stepped off at the exact same time as a result. But maybe.
The whole thing is hilarious. Every team at least tries to steal signs. But one thing I know for sure is teams aren’t stealing signs by looking into their opponent’s bullpen. I’m very confident saying that.
Agree with the second point. I get the scrutiny on it and looking for more examples, but do your HW on something that simple.
As for Darvish, he's also a well known headcase. So it wouldn't surprise me. You could sense he would have a bad start cause he was bothered pregame by wind or sun conditions. Doesn't make it some super savvy observant pitcher skill, just means he's skittish and can be distracted.
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The Astros didn't even need to steal signs in 2017 because he was tipping his pitches (it should be noted that one of those games was in Houston and should be looked upon a bit differently in hindsight)
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https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristianYelich/status/1195462269594812417
Yeli just absolutely owned Yu.
Also, the person who originally made the claim needs to learn positions on a baseball field before he makes claims of Yeli stealing signs.
1) Yeli looks out to right field.
2) The camera immediately changes to the wide view and Yu is already off the rubber, so clearly he didn’t step off as a result of seeing Yeli’s eyes look for a signal from...
3) The Cubs, not Brewers, bullpen is in right field. So the Cubs bullpen is giving Yeli signals? Awesome. No wonder they stunk this year.
LOL
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LOL
Agreed.
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The Astros didn't even need to steal signs in 2017 because he was tipping his pitches (it should be noted that one of those games was in Houston and should be looked upon a bit differently in hindsight)
Any team that was obviously stealing signs from the 2017 White Sox is inherently pathetic.
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Astros culture of cheating spreading out to Boston and Milwaukee too? Maybe Brauny can be a character witness for Yeli? Will Fiers flip on the Brew Crew too and spill the beans?
This will be fun, Wades.
https://sportsmockery.com/2019/11/brewers-also-accused-of-cheating-like-the-astros/
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Astros culture of cheating spreading out to Boston and Milwaukee too? Maybe Brauny can be a character witness for Yeli? Will Fiers flip on the Brew Crew too and spill the beans?
This will be fun, Wades.
https://sportsmockery.com/2019/11/brewers-also-accused-of-cheating-like-the-astros/
Agreed. You know who else was better against Quintana in 2019 than they were against Quintana in 2018? Just about every team. Looking at numbers against a single pitcher in baseball. No other explanation than the Brewers cheat.
The Brewers have had no problem winning in Wrigley the last 2 years. Maybe the Cubs bullpen is giving Yeli their signs at Wrigley as well as at home?
Also, I’m certain that there GM is the one heading it all. 😂
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As a hitter, you never took a quick glance at the fielders' positioning? Especually with all of the shifts that are played now.
This "scandal" is showing who did and didnt play baseball growing up.
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Agreed.
Yelich doth protest too much. What a massive overreaction. He's a stud so his response sure is interesting.
Donaldson's tweet was the perfect response.
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Yelich doth protest too much. What a massive overreaction. He's a stud so his response sure is interesting.
Donaldson's tweet was the perfect response.
Protest too much? What was interesting about it?
Every team in the MLB must be stealing the Cubs pitches when Yu’s on the mound.
But yeah Yeli’s getting those signals from right field. Let me guess. Stearns has season tickets out there and is holding up signs for Yeli to see. 😂😂😂😂
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Remember when Whitey Herzog accused Bernie Brewer of stealing signs?
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I am certain the Brewers try to steal signs. And are probably successful doing so sometimes.
I’m also certain that was not Yeli stealing signs. But if it helps Cubs fans sleep have at it. Blatant proof! ::)
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I wish the Tigers stole signs.
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I am certain the Brewers try to steal signs. And are probably successful doing so sometimes.
I’m also certain that was not Yeli stealing signs. But if it helps Cubs fans sleep have at it. Blatant proof! ::)
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/c0cb0r/yelichs_home_vs_away_stats_are_insane_which/
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https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/c0cb0r/yelichs_home_vs_away_stats_are_insane_which/
Did he stop stealing signs after the first 50 games of the season? Yeli was the only one getting signs relayed to him on the team?
Sounds fishy to me.
The guy had an OPS over 1.000 on the road this year...
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Did he stop stealing signs after the first 50 games of the season? Yeli was the only one getting signs relayed to him on the team?
Sounds fishy to me.
The guy had an OPS over 1.000 on the road this year...
I want to go back to the days of you saying Arrieta was a cheater.
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I want to go back to the days of you saying Arrieta was a cheater.
Roids are awesome.
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Roids are awesome.
Not as good as digital cameras, hey?
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Protest too much? What was interesting about it?
Every team in the MLB must be stealing the Cubs pitches when Yu’s on the mound.
But yeah Yeli’s getting those signals from right field. Let me guess. Stearns has season tickets out there and is holding up signs for Yeli to see. 😂😂😂😂
Why does he give so much of a sh*t about a tweet that didn't accuse him of anything?
You might want to look at Yu's stats once he got healthy last year, including those against your Brewers.
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Why does he give so much of a sh*t about a tweet that didn't accuse him of anything?
You might want to look at Yu's stats once he got healthy last year, including those against your Brewers.
Read the entire Twitter thread. It’s literally a Tweet claiming they looked into sign stealing by the Brewers and he’s looking out to left center (when he’s clearly looking out to right), the Brewers bullpen is in left center (at least they got that correct), and Yu is stepping off because he saw Yeli stealing signs. The next Tweet provides the video. It literally accuses him of stealing signs. Spelled out.
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One of my MU roommates once stole a Wisconsin Ave sign. Who knew he coulda been an Astro?!?!
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Read the entire Twitter thread. It’s literally a Tweet claiming they looked into sign stealing by the Brewers and he’s looking out to left center (when he’s clearly looking out to right), the Brewers bullpen is in left center (at least they got that correct), and Yu is stepping off because he saw Yeli stealing signs. The next Tweet provides the video. It literally accuses him of stealing signs. Spelled out.
No, it doesn't.
Also, did you actually take a look at Yu's stats last season as the year progressed or are you comfortable with looking stupid? Weird how you ignored that.
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I happen to disagree that the MVP should come from a team that is 1,000 games out of first place at the end of April.
It goes to how I define value. Others obviously define it differently, because the star of a team that finishes 1,000 games out of first place every year keeps winning it. Voters are given great latitude in how they define "valuable," and I wouldn't have it any other way. I just happen to disagree with them.
When was the last time Mike Trout played a "pressure game"? When was the last time he had to come through in the clutch to keep his team in the pennant race? I think it matters that for years not a single at-bat Trout has had after the All-Star break has mattered for the Angels in the standings. It is "easier" to hit when facing zero pressure.
I know it's not his fault that he hasn't had a pressure game in 5 years. I happen to think he is a transcendent player and I would love to see how he would do when the pressure's on. In the very small sample size we have so far -- the 2014 ALDS -- he was 1-for-12 for a team that got swept. I don't think that "defines" him any more than Ted Williams' poor postseason numbers define him; I just wish we got to see how he'd perform when everything's on the line.
Obviously, MVP voters don't think it makes a difference. This year, he barely even played in September and he still got the award. Thinking about it now, I guess that makes sense given that he hasn't had an important September at-bat in years and years.
Finally, I haven't insulted you at all in this discussion but you revealed your character yet again. You even brought out your weird and tired Erin Andrews compulsion with a totally nonsensical statement.
Have a lovely evening.
LOL. Absolutely comical.
Simple question...who is the best player in baseball....Mike Trout...glad to see baseball’s writers agree.
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Read the entire Twitter thread. It’s literally a Tweet claiming they looked into sign stealing by the Brewers and he’s looking out to left center (when he’s clearly looking out to right), the Brewers bullpen is in left center (at least they got that correct), and Yu is stepping off because he saw Yeli stealing signs. The next Tweet provides the video. It literally accuses him of stealing signs. Spelled out.
Just one more reason to hate the "Loveable losers".
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LOL. Absolutely comical.
Simple question...who is the best player in baseball....Mike Trout...glad to see baseball’s writers agree.
First, that isn't a question. Or is a misused ellipsis now a question mark, too?
As for your boy, he is unquestionably the best loser in baseball, yessir. No player in recent baseball history has compiled more stats playing pressure-free games for hopeless teams.
Given that you're a guy who likes to talk about athletes "peeing down their legs" in clutch situations, I would have thought you'd appreciate how much more difficult it is to produce in games that matter -- something your boy hasn't done in 5 years.
But I'm glad you've finally found one cause that leads you to stick up for journalists. So I'll call it a win.
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Trout is amazing. However, it is a completely rational and acceptable argument to vote for a player from a team that is involved in a pennant race. Also, it is perfectly acceptable to vote for a triple crown winner, though Chico argued against it. He likes Trout. Nobody denies he is phenomenal. But the MVP is not his birthright.
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It's kinda the same way I think about Yeli's candidacy this year. He actually performed better but the team squeaked into the playoffs. I have no trouble with the fact that he wasn't named. Next year.
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There should be a Player of the Year award which goes to the best stats and MVP for who played phenomenal and helped bring their team to the next level.
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There should be a Player of the Year award which goes to the best stats and MVP for who played phenomenal and helped bring their team to the next level.
Absolutely agree. This has been proposed many times but it never has gained traction with either MLB, the BBWAA or both.
It makes sense to have a non-pitcher equivalent to the Cy Young Award, which was established to honor the "most outstanding" -- not most valuable -- pitcher in baseball.
It could be called the Willie Mays Award or the Babe Ruth Award or whatever.
The fact that a pitcher can win (and has won) MVP, underscores how silly it is to have an award specifically for pitchers but not one specifically for non-pitchers.
The Cy Young is all about stats. The MVP, on the other hand, specifically asks voters to determine "value" to a team as it relates to the overall picture of each league.
I actually have less of a problem with a dominant starting pitcher for an outstanding team winning MVP than I do with a dominant non-pitcher for a terrible team winning it.
When a good team can count on a victory every fifth day, it takes pressure off the entire team, especially the rest of the pitching staff. It lets a very good pitcher settle into the No. 2 role without facing the pressure of being "the guy," and there's a domino effect all the way down the rotation. Plus, a truly dominant starter is an innings-eater who saves the bullpen every fifth day -- which is incredibly valuable for a manager. In this way, one can argue (and voters have argued) that a truly dominant, MVP-caliber pitcher has value that goes well beyond what he does in his 33-35 starts.
For me, it's more difficult to go with a starter now because even the few "iron men" out there are on pitch counts and average only about 7 innings per start. I'm obviously not saying it's wrong to have them on pitch counts; I'm just stating a fact.
When Verlander won the 2011 AL MVP, he averaged 7.4 innings per start. When Kershaw won the 2014 NL MVP, he averaged 7.3 innings.
When Bob Gibson won MVP in 1968, he averaged 8.9 innings per start.
8.9 innings! Basically, a complete game every time out. That's value!
In 2018, DeGrom averaged 6.8 IP and had 10 wins all season for a Mets team that went 77-85 and didn't play a game that mattered for 4+ months. Because he just about never pitched into even the 8th inning, the weak Mets bullpen blew several of his starts. His ERA, Ks and advanced stats were such that I can understand why he won Cy. But 5th in MVP voting? Really?
Obviously, all of these are opinions. It's a discussion I find interesting ... until some people (OK, one low-character people) takes it personally and starts hurling insults.
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Simple question...who is the best player in baseball....Mike Trout...glad to see baseball’s writers agree.
Has anyone said that Mike Trout isn't the best player in baseball? But of course that has nothing to do with who was the AL Most Valuable Player in 2019. So your question is irrelevant and immaterial.
Here's a simple relevant question: What do Phil Rizzuto, Bobby Shantz, Joe Gordon,Jackie Jensen, Nellie Fox, Elston Howard (twice), Zoilo Versalles, Boog Powell, Jeff Burroughs, Don Baylor, Roger Maris (twice), Rollie Fingers, Willie Hernandez, Jose Canseco, Dennis Eckersly, Dustin Pedroia, Josh Hamilton, Josh Donaldson, Justin Verlander, Jose Altuve and Joe Mauer (and many more) have in common?
Answer: 1.They won one (or more) MVP awards and 2. They were never the best player in baseball.
Conclusion? The two have virtually nothing to do with each other.
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I think the emergence of advanced analytics explain most of the divergence on Trout. The argument against Trout (who likely goes down as a Top 10 player of all time, and HAS been the best player in the AL every year while healthy) is the exact same argument FOR Aaron Rodgers if they get a #1 seed.
In this age where we're able to flesh out and evaluate individual performances independent of ultimate team success, I don't find the argument that the MVP is the best player on the best team particularly compelling.
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We need a new award apparently
The not best player in the league but is most “valuable” on a playoff team. (NBITLBIMVPT)
Glad they got it right. Also won Hank Aaron Award, Silver Slugger and finalist for Gold Glove in Center Field.
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We need a new award apparently
We agree!
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C'mon guys, let the Angels fans have their distraction from the dumpster fire that franchise is these days.
They have the unquestioned best player in the game and a top 10 payroll, yet haven't won a playoff game in a decade or sniffed a playoff appearance in five seasons. Oh, and they have one of the worst farm systems in the majors and apparently some clubhouse culture issues.
Ouch.
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C'mon guys, let the Angels fans have their distraction from the dumpster fire that franchise is these days.
Yeah, you're right, Pak. Still, it's fun to have fun ...
Trout by the numbers:
3: MVP Awards won.
2: Seasons in which his Angels won more than 86 games.
1: Hits during the 2014 ALDS.
0: Career postseason victories.
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Trout is amazing. However, it is a completely rational and acceptable argument to vote for a player from a team that is involved in a pennant race. Also, it is perfectly acceptable to vote for a triple crown winner, though Chico argued against it. He likes Trout. Nobody denies he is phenomenal. But the MVP is not his birthright.
No one said it is his birthright, though he got jobbed out of at least one more....my problem with Miguel winning it that year is his defense is average, doesn’t steal bases, etc, etc. There is a reason why one player is more “valuable”...he does more.
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There should be a Player of the Year award which goes to the best stats and MVP for who played phenomenal and helped bring their team to the next level.
But it is baseball, one player doesn’t do that....we all know this. NBA, sure. Baseball..not a chance. Pitching is every bit as important as hitting. Baseball is more of a team game when it comes to success, but I would argue to degree if you have three stud pitchers, that can take you very far...that’s how much of an advantage that side of the ball has. You can be a great hitting team with crap pitching and you aren’t going to win a championship.
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C'mon guys, let the Angels fans have their distraction from the dumpster fire that franchise is these days.
They have the unquestioned best player in the game and a top 10 payroll, yet haven't won a playoff game in a decade or sniffed a playoff appearance in five seasons. Oh, and they have one of the worst farm systems in the majors and apparently some clubhouse culture issues.
Ouch.
Yup, a lot of bad bad bad payroll decisions. Farm system was dead last for awhile, up to 22nd before the trade deadline, dropped back down because we brought a bunch of guys up to the big club.
More Tommy John injuries by a mile over any other team the last 8 years had huge impacts. Glad Joe is back home with the club.
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Yup, a lot of bad bad bad payroll decisions. Farm system was dead last for awhile, up to 22nd before the trade deadline, dropped back down because we brought a bunch of guys up to the big club.
More Tommy John injuries by a mile over any other team the last 8 years had huge impacts. Glad Joe is back home with the club.
Jo Adell is the one to be excited about. That guy has star written all over him. He may finally be the running mate Trout deserves.
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No one said it is his birthright, though he got jobbed out of at least one more....my problem with Miguel winning it that year is his defense is average, doesn’t steal bases, etc, etc. There is a reason why one player is more “valuable”...he does more.
Triple crown trumps perceived defensive liability. Shake your fist at the sky all you want.
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Baseball America does Player if the Year award...not AL or NL, one overall award.
2019 winner. Mike Trout
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Sporting News does MLB Player if the Year...one award, not broken up by league.
2019 winner...Mike Trout
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And? Everyone has literally said he is the POY. Just not the most valuable. Not that hard
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Sporting News does MLB Player if the Year...one award, not broken up by league.
2019 winner...Mike Trout
Agreed. MLB Player of the Year. No doubt
And he was so valuable that the Angels finished only 5,000 games out of first.place. Without him, it would have been at least 5,010!
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Sporting News does MLB Player if the Year...one award, not broken up by league.
2019 winner...Mike Trout
Holy Crap! He won a couple awards! He must be good. And here I didn't believe it.
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Are you his agent? Do you get to move to nowhere Idaho sooner if he gets awards? No one is arguing he is anything less than great.
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Jo Adell is the one to be excited about. That guy has star written all over him. He may finally be the running mate Trout deserves.
I watched him get hurt in Spring Training this year....he was out for a good period of time. We think he is going to be good along with Brandon Marsh, another OF. With Calhoun not coming back and freeing up $14M, one of those two will be in the OF this year.
Our issue is healthy pitching...is Garritt Cole coming home to the OC? That will be interesting.
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Triple crown trumps perceived defensive liability. Shake your fist at the sky all you want.
Trout won player of the year in those years....from what I read here that is the more important award. I’ve also been told endlessly here that RBIs don’t matter....now they do? Wish people here would stop moving goal posts.
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And? Everyone has literally said he is the POY. Just not the most valuable. Not that hard
Both....really really not that hard. End of the day, that’s what the record books say....not that hard. Thought I just read player of the year matters...good thing he won those, too. Glad we all agree. Lol
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Are you his agent? Do you get to move to nowhere Idaho sooner if he gets awards? No one is arguing he is anything less than great.
Nowhere Idaho....never heard of it. If you mean Beautiful part of Idaho with a lake, no one pissed off that I own a gun, drive a truck or light a fire, people minding their own business, plenty close to an airport, shopping, all the comforts of life ....yes, that sounds like the place.
Not his agent, do get to work with him and many others, great dude. Boring, doesn’t drink, smoke, humble...married his high school sweetheart...down to earth...bug family guy...doesn’t give two flying shats what people want him to do, he’s going to live his life how he lives it. Old school.
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Idaho also was the birthplace of the Aryan Nation and is still a hotbed of white supremacist groups.
You'll be happy that the very, very dangerous Josina Anderson will not try to join you there, lest she be gunned down, set on fire or dragged behind a truck.
What the fukk dude?
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What the fukk dude?
hoopaloop was clearly threatened by both Kaepernick's Kunta Kinte shirt and by Josina Anderson's dopey view on the Garrett fiasco.
I figured one big reason he'd feel at home in Idaho is because they don't suffer "their kind" easily.
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Who’s starting the third MLB thread?
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I apologize for my role in turning this away from baseball and will attempt to steer it back now.
Where besides Cali are said to be possible landing spots for Cole?
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I apologize for my role in turning this away from baseball and will attempt to steer it back now.
Where besides Cali are said to be possible landing spots for Cole?
My feelings are that it would not be a wise move for the Angels to sign Cole (or Strasburg). They are too desperate for pitching. Be better of signing two of the next tier of starters for about the same as it would cost for Cole.
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Idaho also was the birthplace of the Aryan Nation and is still a hotbed of white supremacist groups.
You'll be happy that the very, very dangerous Josina Anderson will not try to join you there, lest she be gunned down, set on fire or dragged behind a truck.
W.T.F.
Nads going all EA again.
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Pine tar, domestic abuse and sign stealing: The Houston Astros Story.
Coming soon to a theater near you.
Just keeps looking worse and worse for the stros.
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Idaho also was the birthplace of the Aryan Nation and is still a hotbed of white supremacist groups.
You'll be happy that the very, very dangerous Josina Anderson will not try to join you there, lest she be gunned down, set on fire or dragged behind a truck.
Settle down 82. Nothing cheeks said was directed as a slight toward you. Idaho is beautiful. You just don't like him, or his views. And he feels the same way about you. Leave it at that.
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Settle down 82. Nothing cheeks said was directed as a slight toward you. Idaho is beautiful. You just don't like him, or his views. And he feels the same way about you. Leave it at that.
Actually, earlier in the thread, he responded to my simple, fact-based discussion about Trout and the MVP with a series of personal insults. But you're right, I should be above it and to not subject our fellow Scoopers to this stuff. As Lenny and others have discovered, we can try to just ignore him, but when the lies and intellectual dishonesty and superiority reach a certain level, it's not easy.
I always appreciate your tone and your intentions, glow.
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Actually, earlier in the thread, he responded to my simple, fact-based discussion about Trout and the MVP with a series of personal insults. But you're right, I should be above it and to not subject our fellow Scoopers to this stuff. As Lenny and others have discovered, we can try to just ignore him, but when the lies and intellectual dishonesty and superiority reach a certain level, it's not easy.
I always appreciate your tone and your intentions, glow.
I get it 82. Let's all work to make scoop a better place. :)
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Idaho also was the birthplace of the Aryan Nation and is still a hotbed of white supremacist groups.
You'll be happy that the very, very dangerous Josina Anderson will not try to join you there, lest she be gunned down, set on fire or dragged behind a truck.
It was? Or are you just lying again...as usual and playing race card as usual. Source to back up your claims. You may be right, I don’t know nor do I care. That’s not the reason I am moving out of California.
Meanwhile, parts of Europe that you love so much and want to emulate killed tens of millions of people...oh that’s right...you don’t want to talk about that since you are labeling geography and how some people might have acted. Classic.
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What the fukk dude?
It’s who he is
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hoopaloop was clearly threatened by both Kaepernick's Kunta Kinte shirt and by Josina Anderson's dopey view on the Garrett fiasco.
I figured one big reason he'd feel at home in Idaho is because they don't suffer "their kind" easily.
I wasn’t threatened one bit by the shirt, I found it amazing with the opportunity he had that he would wear it. But you know, lies and stuff from you....as expected.
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Actually, earlier in the thread, he responded to my simple, fact-based discussion about Trout and the MVP with a series of personal insults. But you're right, I should be above it and to not subject our fellow Scoopers to this stuff. As Lenny and others have discovered, we can try to just ignore him, but when the lies and intellectual dishonesty and superiority reach a certain level, it's not easy.
I always appreciate your tone and your intentions, glow.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58961.msg1171687#msg1171687
This was your “facts based” post I responded to which was littered with insults...and you wonder why you got insulted back. What a piece of work, and your display about Aryans and Idaho, dragging people behind a truck and implying I would fit in and supports that....what a grotesque human being you are Mike. Simply grotesque.
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You may now discuss MLB stuff with your local Arby's cashier until pitchers and catchers report.