Real MLB Thread

[tower912]

Trout is amazing.   However, it is a completely rational and acceptable argument to vote for a player from a team that is involved in a pennant race.     Also, it is perfectly acceptable to vote for a triple crown winner, though Chico argued against it.   He likes Trout.  Nobody denies he is phenomenal.    But the MVP is not his birthright.

[jsglow]

It's kinda the same way I think about Yeli's candidacy this year.  He actually performed better but the team squeaked into the playoffs.  I have no trouble with the fact that he wasn't named.  Next year.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

There should be a Player of the Year award which goes to the best stats and MVP for who played phenomenal and helped bring their team to the next level.

[MU82]

There should be a Player of the Year award which goes to the best stats and MVP for who played phenomenal and helped bring their team to the next level.

Absolutely agree. This has been proposed many times but it never has gained traction with either MLB, the BBWAA or both.

It makes sense to have a non-pitcher equivalent to the Cy Young Award, which was established to honor the "most outstanding" -- not most valuable -- pitcher in baseball.

It could be called the Willie Mays Award or the Babe Ruth Award or whatever.

The fact that a pitcher can win (and has won) MVP, underscores how silly it is to have an award specifically for pitchers but not one specifically for non-pitchers.

The Cy Young is all about stats. The MVP, on the other hand, specifically asks voters to determine "value" to a team as it relates to the overall picture of each league.

I actually have less of a problem with a dominant starting pitcher for an outstanding team winning MVP than I do with a dominant non-pitcher for a terrible team winning it.

When a good team can count on a victory every fifth day, it takes pressure off the entire team, especially the rest of the pitching staff. It lets a very good pitcher settle into the No. 2 role without facing the pressure of being "the guy," and there's a domino effect all the way down the rotation. Plus, a truly dominant starter is an innings-eater who saves the bullpen every fifth day -- which is incredibly valuable for a manager. In this way, one can argue (and voters have argued) that a truly dominant, MVP-caliber pitcher has value that goes well beyond what he does in his 33-35 starts.

For me, it's more difficult to go with a starter now because even the few "iron men" out there are on pitch counts and average only about 7 innings per start. I'm obviously not saying it's wrong to have them on pitch counts; I'm just stating a fact.

When Verlander won the 2011 AL MVP, he averaged 7.4 innings per start. When Kershaw won the 2014 NL MVP, he averaged 7.3 innings.

When Bob Gibson won MVP in 1968, he averaged 8.9 innings per start.

8.9 innings! Basically, a complete game every time out. That's value!

In 2018, DeGrom averaged 6.8 IP and had 10 wins all season for a Mets team that went 77-85 and didn't play a game that mattered for 4+ months. Because he just about never pitched into even the 8th inning, the weak Mets bullpen blew several of his starts. His ERA, Ks and advanced stats were such that I can understand why he won Cy. But 5th in MVP voting? Really?

Obviously, all of these are opinions. It's a discussion I find interesting ... until some people (OK, one low-character people) takes it personally and starts hurling insults.

[Lennys Tap]

Simple question...who is the best player in baseball....Mike Trout...glad to see baseball’s writers agree.

Has anyone said that Mike Trout isn't the best player in baseball? But of course that has nothing to do with who was the AL Most Valuable Player in 2019. So your question is irrelevant and immaterial.

Here's a simple relevant question: What do Phil Rizzuto, Bobby Shantz, Joe Gordon,Jackie Jensen, Nellie Fox, Elston Howard (twice), Zoilo Versalles, Boog Powell, Jeff Burroughs, Don Baylor, Roger Maris (twice), Rollie Fingers, Willie Hernandez, Jose Canseco, Dennis Eckersly, Dustin Pedroia, Josh Hamilton, Josh Donaldson, Justin Verlander, Jose Altuve and Joe Mauer (and many more) have in common?

Answer: 1.They won one (or more) MVP awards and 2. They were never the best player in baseball.

Conclusion? The two have virtually nothing to do with each other.

[GB Warrior]

I think the emergence of advanced analytics explain most of the divergence on Trout. The argument against Trout (who likely goes down as a Top 10 player of all time, and HAS been the best player in the AL every year while healthy) is the exact same argument FOR Aaron Rodgers if they get a #1 seed.

In this age where we're able to flesh out and evaluate individual performances independent of ultimate team success, I don't find the argument that the MVP is the best player on the best team particularly compelling.

[Cheeks]

We need a new award apparently


The not best player in the league but is most “valuable” on a playoff team. (NBITLBIMVPT)


Glad they got it right.  Also won Hank Aaron Award, Silver Slugger and finalist for Gold Glove in Center Field. 

[MU82]

We need a new award apparently

We agree!

[Pakuni]

C'mon guys, let the Angels fans have their distraction from the dumpster fire that franchise is these days.
They have the unquestioned best player in the game and a top 10 payroll, yet haven't won a playoff game in a decade or sniffed a playoff appearance in five seasons. Oh, and they have one of the worst farm systems in the majors and apparently some clubhouse culture issues.
Ouch.

[MU82]

C'mon guys, let the Angels fans have their distraction from the dumpster fire that franchise is these days.

Yeah, you're right, Pak. Still, it's fun to have fun ...

Trout by the numbers:

3: MVP Awards won.

2: Seasons in which his Angels won more than 86 games.

1: Hits during the 2014 ALDS.

0: Career postseason victories.

[Cheeks]

Trout is amazing.   However, it is a completely rational and acceptable argument to vote for a player from a team that is involved in a pennant race.     Also, it is perfectly acceptable to vote for a triple crown winner, though Chico argued against it.   He likes Trout.  Nobody denies he is phenomenal.    But the MVP is not his birthright.

No one said it is his birthright, though he got jobbed out of at least one more....my problem with Miguel winning it that year is his defense is average, doesn’t steal bases, etc, etc.  There is a reason why one player is more “valuable”...he does more.

[Cheeks]

There should be a Player of the Year award which goes to the best stats and MVP for who played phenomenal and helped bring their team to the next level.

But it is baseball, one player doesn’t do that....we all know this.  NBA, sure.  Baseball..not a chance.  Pitching is every bit as important as hitting.  Baseball is more of a team game when it comes to success, but I would argue to degree if you have three stud pitchers, that can take you very far...that’s how much of an advantage that side of the ball has.  You can be a great hitting team with crap pitching and you aren’t going to win a championship. 

[Cheeks]

C'mon guys, let the Angels fans have their distraction from the dumpster fire that franchise is these days.
They have the unquestioned best player in the game and a top 10 payroll, yet haven't won a playoff game in a decade or sniffed a playoff appearance in five seasons. Oh, and they have one of the worst farm systems in the majors and apparently some clubhouse culture issues.
Ouch.

Yup, a lot of bad bad bad payroll decisions.  Farm system was dead last for awhile, up to 22nd before the trade deadline, dropped back down because we brought a bunch of guys up to the big club.

More Tommy John injuries by a mile over any other team the last 8 years had huge impacts.  Glad Joe is back home with the club.

[buckchuckler]

Yup, a lot of bad bad bad payroll decisions.  Farm system was dead last for awhile, up to 22nd before the trade deadline, dropped back down because we brought a bunch of guys up to the big club.

More Tommy John injuries by a mile over any other team the last 8 years had huge impacts.  Glad Joe is back home with the club.

Jo Adell is the one to be excited about.  That guy has star written all over him.  He may finally be the running mate Trout deserves.

[tower912]

No one said it is his birthright, though he got jobbed out of at least one more....my problem with Miguel winning it that year is his defense is average, doesn’t steal bases, etc, etc.  There is a reason why one player is more “valuable”...he does more.

Triple crown trumps perceived defensive liability.  Shake your fist at the sky all you want.

[Cheeks]

Baseball America does Player if the Year award...not AL or NL, one overall award.


2019 winner.  Mike Trout

[Cheeks]

Sporting News does MLB Player if the Year...one award, not broken up by league.

2019 winner...Mike Trout

[JWags85]

And? Everyone has literally said he is the POY. Just not the most valuable. Not that hard

[MU82]

Sporting News does MLB Player if the Year...one award, not broken up by league.

2019 winner...Mike Trout

Agreed. MLB Player of the Year. No doubt

And he was so valuable that the Angels finished only 5,000 games out of first.place. Without him, it would have been at least 5,010!

[buckchuckler]

Sporting News does MLB Player if the Year...one award, not broken up by league.

2019 winner...Mike Trout

Holy Crap!  He won a couple awards!   He must be good.  And here I didn't believe it.

[tower912]

Are you his agent?  Do you get to move to nowhere Idaho sooner if he gets awards?  No one is arguing he is anything less than great.

[Cheeks]

Jo Adell is the one to be excited about.  That guy has star written all over him.  He may finally be the running mate Trout deserves.

I watched him get hurt in Spring Training this year....he was out for a good period of time.  We think he is going to be good along with Brandon Marsh, another OF.  With Calhoun not coming back and freeing up $14M, one of those two will be in the OF this year.

Our issue is healthy pitching...is Garritt Cole coming home to the OC?  That will be interesting.

[Cheeks]

Triple crown trumps perceived defensive liability.  Shake your fist at the sky all you want.

Trout won player of the year in those years....from what I read here that is the more important award.  I’ve also been told endlessly here that RBIs don’t matter....now they do?  Wish people here would stop moving goal posts.

[Cheeks]

And? Everyone has literally said he is the POY. Just not the most valuable. Not that hard

Both....really really not that hard.  End of the day, that’s what the record books say....not that hard.  Thought I just read player of the year matters...good thing he won those, too.  Glad we all agree.  Lol

[Cheeks]

Are you his agent?  Do you get to move to nowhere Idaho sooner if he gets awards?  No one is arguing he is anything less than great.

Nowhere Idaho....never heard of it.  If you mean Beautiful part of Idaho with a lake, no one pissed off that I own a gun, drive a truck or light a fire, people minding their own business, plenty close to an airport, shopping, all the comforts of life ....yes, that sounds like the place.


Not his agent, do get to work with him and many others, great dude.  Boring, doesn’t drink, smoke, humble...married his high school sweetheart...down to earth...bug family guy...doesn’t give two flying shats what people want him to do, he’s going to live his life how he lives it.  Old school.