Conspiracy Theories--Are you a Buff or are they Bunk?

[The Sultan]

I think he got the guards to ignore his cell for awhile so he could kill himself.  Read up on that prison.  It's not a nice place especially when you are in solitary like he was.

[dgies9156]

Don't think he was killed. There was too much interest in this country in a show trial to achieve certain political objectives. And, while I think there has been more than a few problems with law enforcement in recent years, I doubt anyone would overtly and openly stoop to this level, even if the powerful were involved. I just don't see it.

As to my FBI comments, I don't doubt there are many fine FBI agents doing the nation's work on things like eradicating organized crime, solving espionage rings, assisting local police departments when the crimes are large-scale and sophisticated. But the leadership of the FBI has been overtly political ever since Edgar Hoover first ran the FBI. Mr. Comey's tenure and his bizarre behavior during the 2016 election is Peoples' Exhibit Number 1.

[Lennys Tap]

I firmly believe Epstein was killed.....too many powerful people on both sides with too much to lose for him to have lived longer.

I firmly believe that firmly believing either way at this point is jumping to conclusions.

[mu03eng]

Maybe, but his close associate who supposedly put most of the hookups together is very much alive....plenty of evidence around if needed.

If I was her, I would sleep with at least one eye open. I'm 100% serious. She will either compensated significantly to fall on the sword or she will be disappeared.

[HouWarrior]

I firmly believe that firmly believing either way at this point is jumping to conclusions.

I agree. Still way too many blanks to qualify as a conspiracy.

In my original OP here I listed popular conspiracies. Each had to marinate for a while, ...

.this one doesn't qualify in only a 2-3 day news cycle as a killing conspiracy simply because we read "sex" and some famous names. 

[jsglow]

I firmly believe Epstein was killed.....too many powerful people on both sides with too much to lose for him to have lived longer.

Here's where I am Eng.  At a minimum, his suicide was 'facilitated'.

[Cheeks]

Occam's Razer

[Jockey]

Here's where I am Eng.  At a minimum, his suicide was 'facilitated'.

I agree. There is no conspiracy.

There was neglect and incompetence all the way up the chain.

[Cheeks]

I agree. There is no conspiracy.

There was neglect and incompetence all the way up the chain.

And you know this how?  How about we get some answers first, so far much of the early reporting has been false with corrections now coming out.  Rush to get a story, facts be damned, correct later mentality. 

[wadesworld]

And you know this how?  How about we get some answers first, so far much of the early reporting has been false with corrections now coming out.  Rush to get a story, facts be damned, correct later mentality.

Kind of like the NCAA's rush to get a new rule out regarding agents just to change something, correct very shortly after when there's egg all over your face because the rule was an absolute joke.

[Cheeks]

Kind of like the NCAA's rush to get a new rule out regarding agents just to change something, correct very shortly after when there's egg all over your face because the rule was an absolute joke.

Fail to see the analogy.  One is speculating on an event that very few have any information on, or how high it goes.

The other was a rule the NBA had....No need to buckle...would have been a non issue in a few days.  They should have stuck to their guns, but at least it blew up some of the other favorite canards of people and the NCAA.

[Hards Alumni]

I firmly believe that firmly believing either way at this point is jumping to conclusions.

Its hard, because if you believe either side, the evidence has already been destroyed, and they have gotten away with it!

[mu03eng]

I agree. There is no conspiracy.

There was neglect and incompetence all the way up the chain.

There is a conspiracy in some capacity, whether it's a full blown hit or just Epstein paying people to look the other way so he could off himself, this is not a series of unfortunate events.

Dude was the most important federal prisoner at this time and the following things had to happen IN COMBINATION for him to be able to off himself:
-guards not following procedure for a suicide risk and going longer than 30 min without direct observation
-surveillance cameras turned off
-cellmate transferred
-suicide restrictions removed

I could see one or two of those things happening but not all of them

[tower912]

Inadequate staffing

[Cheeks]

There is a conspiracy in some capacity, whether it's a full blown hit or just Epstein paying people to look the other way so he could off himself, this is not a series of unfortunate events.

Dude was the most important federal prisoner at this time and the following things had to happen IN COMBINATION for him to be able to off himself:
-guards not following procedure for a suicide risk and going longer than 30 min without direct observation
-surveillance cameras turned off
-cellmate transferred
-suicide restrictions removed

I could see one or two of those things happening but not all of them

You sure cameras were turned off?  Where are you hearing or reading that? 

[mu03eng]

You sure cameras were turned off?  Where are you hearing or reading that?

Seems I misheard, he was placed in a cell in which the cameras don't show the cell itself(not that the cameras were off like I thought)....another break in protocol for a suicide watch

https://nypost.com/2019/08/11/theres-no-video-of-jeffrey-epsteins-apparent-suicide-sources/

[Cheeks]

Seems I misheard, he was placed in a cell in which the cameras don't show the cell itself(not that the cameras were off like I thought)....another break in protocol for a suicide watch

https://nypost.com/2019/08/11/theres-no-video-of-jeffrey-epsteins-apparent-suicide-sources/

But if he wasn't on suicide watch, which has also been reported, then it would not be a break in protocol...right?

End of the day, very early and tons of misinformation reported at the moment so hard to know what is accurate in reporting.

[4everwarriors]

Wuz Vince Foster rubbed out, hey?

[MUBurrow]

Occam's Razer

I keep going back to this too, but at some point, doesn't the level of incompetence it would take for there to be no "conspiracy" rise to be a more complicated explanation? When you look at the timeline of when and how he was put on then taken off suicide watch, my lord.  I understand that given the state of our prisons and jails, you can find issues anywhere you look for them, but this is beyond the pale.

For the record, if my life depended on giving an explanation of what I think happened, with the info available today, I would go with the "facilitated suicide" explanation - i.e. folks with influence, for one reason or another, reduced the protections typically allocated to someone with his recent track record of suicidal intentions and the value of his testimony against others.

[MU82]

Maybe to avenge all the teenage girls that were victimized, Eleven didn't defend him from the Demogorgon.

[forgetful]

I keep going back to this too, but at some point, doesn't the level of incompetence it would take for there to be no "conspiracy" rise to be a more complicated explanation? When you look at the timeline of when and how he was put on then taken off suicide watch, my lord.  I understand that given the state of our prisons and jails, you can find issues anywhere you look for them, but this is beyond the pale.

For the record, if my life depended on giving an explanation of what I think happened, with the info available today, I would go with the "facilitated suicide" explanation - i.e. folks with influence, for one reason or another, reduced the protections typically allocated to someone with his recent track record of suicidal intentions and the value of his testimony against others.

In many arguments, I tend to see both sides claiming Occam's Razor supports their side.

It is a go to logical "victory point," everyone knows what "Occam's Razor" means, most can't actually look at data in an unbiased way to determine what theory requires the least speculation.

[Lennys Tap]

For the record, if my life depended on giving an explanation of what I think happened, with the info available today, I would go with the "facilitated suicide" explanation - i.e. folks with influence, for one reason or another, reduced the protections typically allocated to someone with his recent track record of suicidal intentions and the value of his testimony against others.

I keep thinking of that scene in Godfather II - ex mafioso all set to spill the beans on the Corleone family. First, Michael shows up in the courtroom escorting the guy's Mother. He gets a sudden case of amnesia and after a visit from the Consiglieri assuring him his family will be taken care of IF - he dutifully kills himself. Does Epstein have anyone he wants "taken care of"? The Maxwell woman? A lot of powerful people are high fiving this suicide, that's for sure.

[Benny B]

I keep thinking of that scene in Godfather II - ex mafioso all set to spill the beans on the Corleone family. First, Michael shows up in the courtroom escorting the guy's Mother. He gets a sudden case of amnesia and after a visit from the Consiglieri assuring him his family will be taken care of IF - he dutifully kills himself. Does Epstein have anyone he wants "taken care of"? The Maxwell woman? A lot of powerful people are high fiving this suicide, that's for sure.

I don't know of anyone Epstein wanted taken care of, but if you're looking for known, high-profile American acquaintances of Epstein with the means to help advance a conspiracy theory, look no further than 42 and 45.

[forgetful]

I don't know of anyone Epstein wanted taken care of, but if you're looking for known, high-profile American acquaintances of Epstein with the means to help advance a conspiracy theory, look no further than 42 and 45.

Don't forget non-American's like the British Royal Family.

[MU82]

I think that maybe Horshak, Barbarino and Washington did it.

Oh wait ... I thought we were talkin' about Juan Epstein.