Zags

[Jon]

And how many of those were working their first head coaching job? Self didn't even have a NCAA appearance in his first 5 seasons as a head coach. Cal didn't get to the Elite 8 until year 7. Calhoun didn't make it out of the first weekend until his 18th season as a head coach.

I know you fancy yourself some Renaissance man, but you should've stopped right here:

You are wrong. Admit it.

Cal got to a Final Four in Year 2 at UK. Calhoun got to an Elite 8 in Year 4 at UConn.

You are moving the goalposts. Admit your shame. It's ok. You were wrong.

Many coaches have arrived at a school and taken the team to at least an Elite 8 within the first 5 years. That is the hallmark of skill, talent, and expertise.

Unfortunately, our current coach has delivered very modest results in his first five years. Very modest indeed.

And frankly, I am very tired of seeing the "Wojo in the headlights" look of fear, despair, and bewilderment as yet another opponent humiliates us.

Renaissance Man? Well, if being part of a team of incredibly talented engineers solving real problems in power generation on 5 continents is being a Renaissance Man then I guess I am guilty. Some people make an impact. Others stand at the window.

[Goose]

brew is getting knocked around today.

[WarriorDad]

I don't know the average length of time but here is a sample of coaches who have gotten to at least an Elite 8 within five years of being at a school.And this is not comprehensive by any means:

Self, Cal, Roy Williams, Stevens, Pearl, Lefty, Harrick, Shaka, Sean Miller, Denny Crum, Pitino, Knight, Lute, Calhoun, Donovan, Jack Gardner, Joe B., Tark, Phog, Fred Taylor, Bartow, Holland, Guthridge, Hugh Durham, Lou Henson, Ted Owens, Lee Rose, Tex Winter...etc...

I think this puts to rest the notion that a coach needs 12 years (or whatever ridiculous number you threw out) to get superior results at a school.

Your list includes a significant number of coaches that put their programs in trouble with the NCAA.  Self, Cal, Pearl, Harrick, Miller, Crum, Pitino, Calhoun, Tark, Durham, Henson, Joe B Hall, Lute Olson.

Roy Williams, not in trouble with the NCAA, but terrible academic scandal while he was coach.

[🏀]

Your list includes a significant number of coaches that put their programs in trouble with the NCAA.  Self, Cal, Pearl, Harrick, Miller, Crum, Pitino, Calhoun, Tark, Durham, Henson, Joe B Hall, Lute Olson.

Roy Williams, not in trouble with the NCAA, but terrible academic scandal while he was coach.

While Keefe is correct, this also needs to be noted.

The goal is a sustainable, clean, competitive program. Imagine if McDermott coached here, cheating and lackluster results.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The goal is a sustainable, clean, competitive program.

Has anyone achieved this?

[🏀]

Has anyone achieved this?

Wright. Beilein. Painter. Ryan. McCaffery. Brey. Few. Matta. Altman. Krueger. Hamilton. Dixon. Cronin.

Just coaches off the top of my head with sustainable success without major issues.

[brewcity77]

You are wrong. Admit it.

Cal got to a Final Four in Year 2 at UK. Calhoun got to an Elite 8 in Year 4 at UConn.

You are moving the goalposts. Admit your shame. It's ok. You were wrong.

No goalposts moved. I just don't ignore years of work as a head coach like you want to do. My takes are consistent and I research them rather than just inaccurately using my gut. Yours are just being a whiner because that's what you always do best. ❄️❄️❄️

[Dr. Blackheart]

Wright. Beilein. Painter. Ryan. McCaffery. Brey. Few. Matta. Altman. Krueger. Hamilton. Dixon. Cronin.

Just coaches off the top of my head with sustainable success without major issues.

You might want to fact check that list.

[WarriorDad]

Has anyone achieved this?

Do you believe it cannot be done, or that we should not aspire to play within the rules because you believe no on one else is?

[Jon]

No goalposts moved. I just don't ignore years of work as a head coach like you want to do. My takes are consistent and I research them rather than just inaccurately using my gut. Yours are just being a whiner because that's what you always do best. ❄️❄️❄️

You mean...like you are whining right now??

A guy takes over a program he is usually involved in a rebuild. Not always but usually. And solid coaches have delivered results within 5 years.

Your assertion of 12 years is absurd. No business would ever accept such a bizarre time line.

So let's face the fact that you moved the goalposts. You are wrong.  Admit it, Brew. There is no shame in making a mistake. In fact, it can be liberating in certain ways.

[Herman Cain]

You mean...like you are whining right now??

A guy takes over a program he is usually involved in a rebuild. Not always but usually. And solid coaches have delivered results within 5 years.

Your assertion of 12 years is absurd. No business would ever accept such a bizarre time line.

So let's face the fact that you moved the goalposts. You are wrong.  Admit it, Brew. There is no shame in making a mistake. In fact, it can be liberating in certain ways.

Exhibit A:
Tom Izzo hired 1995-96 season. First head coaching job. Age 40

Tom Izzo delivered National Championship 1999-2000 Season 5

[brewcity77]

Exhibit A:
Tom Izzo hired 1995-96 season. First head coaching job. Age 40

Tom Izzo delivered National Championship 1999-2000 Season 5

There's only one guy this millennium that won a title faster. Anyone want to hire Kevin Ollie? He's available. Average first Final Four of the champions since 2000 is more than a decade. First title average is more than 15 years. Izzo is by far the exception, not the rule.

[forgetful]

There's only one guy this millennium that won a title faster. Anyone want to hire Kevin Ollie? He's available. Average first Final Four of the champions since 2000 is more than a decade. First title average is more than 15 years. Izzo is by far the exception, not the rule.

And Izzo was handed a team that was a 3-seed the year prior, and was coaching a program he had been part of for 12 years.

[Herman Cain]

There's only one guy this millennium that won a title faster. Anyone want to hire Kevin Ollie? He's available. Average first Final Four of the champions since 2000 is more than a decade. First title average is more than 15 years. Izzo is by far the exception, not the rule.

Yes I agree Izzo  is the exception which is why he is a Hall of Fame coach. Izzo and Ollie's case show things can be achieved quickly.

And Izzo was handed a team that was a 3-seed the year prior, and was coaching a program he had been part of for 12 years.

That Prior year Michigan State team graduated two phenomal players Sean Respert and Eric Snow. What returned was a hodge podge of lead footed players much worse than what Wojo inherited .

[Billy Hoyle]

Yes I agree Izzo  is the exception which is why he is a Hall of Fame coach. Izzo and Ollie's case show things can be achieved quickly.
That Prior year Michigan State team graduated two phenomal players Sean Respert and Eric Snow. What returned was a hodge podge of lead footed players much worse than what Wojo inherited .

Izzo had been named coach in waiting. He could start recruiting for his program immediately and step in from day one. Ollie moved up the bench to replace Calhoun. Pretty much no transition needed.

People wanted to run Izzo during his third season. He couldn't be Michigan, let alone Detroit. I'd say patience was warranted.

[StillAWarrior]

The solution is staring us in the face:  reach out and see if Izzo is interested in the job. If so, hire him. If not, let Wojo coach the team next year and reassess after the season.

[WarriorDad]

Exhibit A:
Tom Izzo hired 1995-96 season. First head coaching job. Age 40

Tom Izzo delivered National Championship 1999-2000 Season 5

And no national titles from 2001 to 2018.  Winning this thing is hard.  He is an exception to the rule.  It reminds me of Dean Smith who would take the Heels to the Final Four so many times (11), but only two championships.  Hard thing to do in sports.

[Jon]

The solution is staring us in the face:  reach out and see if Izzo is interested in the job. If so, hire him. If not, let Wojo coach the team next year and reassess after the season.

The solution is staring us in the face:  reach out and see if Izzo is interested in the job. If so, hire him. If not, let Wojo coach the team next year and reassess after the season offer the job to pretty much anyone because Wojo ain't getting it done and another season is a waste of money.

[wadesworld]

The solution is staring us in the face:  reach out and see if Izzo is interested in the job. If so, hire him. If not, let Wojo coach the team next year and reassess after the season offer the job to pretty much anyone because Wojo ain't getting it done and another season is a waste of money.

Let's hire Crash. He can show the boys what a real workout is, schedule back to backs cross country because 18 year olds fly to Afghanistan so why can't they play basketball after lush flights, motivate the boys with stories and pictures of good looking females, etc. He'd no doubt do better than Wojo.

[Goose]

wades

You worried Wojo leaves for Va Tech this year?

[Jon]

wades

You worried Wojo leaves for Va Tech this year?

Mother Goose,

In the grand scheme of things the opinion of wades on anything is meaningless.

God, I hope Wojo gets offered and leaves. What a reprieve. Lovell and our BoT need to grow a pair.

[Goose]

Crash

I wanted to see how rattled wades is about his boy. Sadly, there is no story at the moment.

[wadesworld]

Crash

I wanted to see how rattled wades is about his boy. Sadly, there is no story at the moment.

Rattled? Seems like the only things rattled around Scoop are the flying obvjects.

❄️❄️❄️

Was hoping spring was here to stay, but things are frigid around Scoop.

[Jon]

Joe

Dave and I might grab a beer today on Mercer Island. Roanoke Inn.

We'll take you there on a visit to Seattle.

[Goose]

Crash

Give my best to Dave. Tell him I want chance to get my c note back.