Program trajectory and wojo

[WarriorDad]

I would say our two best wins were home vs K- State and Buffalo. Howard was hot in both so its very hard to judge. Of the teams that played yesterday I could only see us beating Florida. Everyone else would have out physicaled us.

I could see us beating MMinnesota, Villanova (we already have) and today Iowa, Buffalo (already have), Ohio State, Oklahoma, Irvine. 

Louisville was one of our better wins, Wisconsin, too. 

[willie warrior]

Perhaps.

But don't you want to give him the chance to build on his already positive trend to find out?

He does not have near a positive trend as you imagine.

[Cheeks]

Is it possible that we need to spend that much to get even to this level? Not saying that Wojo is the best coach in America (he's not). But, unless we get a top 10/5/3 coach, perhaps a school like Marquette is required to commit this many resources to get to the level currently.

Correct, we spend this much just to be in the conversation.

Also correct that these expenditures are not accurate in how they are portrayed and I and others have outlined this for years here.  Because some cute list shows up on the internet without context is what is missing.  Been rehashed many times.

[Cheeks]

There's a big difference between the program Wojo inherited and the team he inherited. He inherited a sub-par team but a very solid program. Referring to the team in 2014 as indicative of the MU program doesn't work for me. The program at the point was strong despite one less than stellar team.

Like I said before, the pro-Wojo camp downplays the MU program on purpose to make Wojo seem more accomplished. And that's a big reason why I have a hard time buying those arguments.

We had a coach leave for a craphole in Va Tech for less money...that doesn't scream strong program.  It screams NCAA infractions coming and I'm getting out of dodge, or it screams something else.  Buzzard crapped on the conference and the school as he left, also not indicative of a strong program....for some reason you are letting him off the hook for that.

It also amazes me how quickly we value how strong a program is on sometimes on seconds of an outcome.  If Davidson didn't shat their pants, that would have been us as a 3 seed knocked out in the first round...literally seconds away from changing that entire mantra.  Which is why Obsessing over what happens for two weeks in March can be dangerous.  Davidson makes their free throws, or doesn't piss themselves, we have the worst loss in our history in the NCAAs from a seeding perspective and there goes your claim.  That's how fragile, knife's edge this stuff can be.

[djvern414]

Not defending, but I remember Davidson making almost all their free throws except one, just Blue & Wilson raining tres.

[4everwarriors]

Why are peeps so willin' ta extend another year. Watt's gonna change? Rip da bandage off and let's get started, hey?

[SERocks]

You know what programs don't make it there? The ones who churn through coaches every couple years because their fans are whining that they didn't win enough first round NCAA games. The administration knows this and that is what they are trying to build at Marquette.

This.  Wojo deserves another three to four years to see if we can get where we want to be. 

[jesmu84]

He does not have near a positive trend as you imagine.

So you admit it is positive. And you don't want to see how high that trend can go?

[Silent Verbal]

It also amazes me how quickly we value how strong a program is on sometimes one seconds of an outcome.  If Davidson didn't shat their pants, that would have been us as a 3 seed knocked out in the first round...literally seconds away from changing that entire mantra.  Which is why Obsessing over what happens for two weeks in March can be dangerous.  Davidson makes their free throws, or doesn't piss themselves, we have the worst loss in our history in the NCAAs from a seeding perspective and there goes your claim.  That's how fragile, knife's edge this stuff can be.

Yeah, and if Louisville doesn't miss a wide open layup at the end of regulation, Creighton doesn't crap their pants on that inbounds play, and Nova actually executes their last possession in MKE, we'd have three more losses this season.  And if Uncle Joe had lady parts, he'd be Aunt Josephine. 

[Cheeks]

He does not have near a positive trend as you imagine.

Yes he does, right there in the data.  There is a reason why we keep score for every game, why we have a regular season, etc.  Deny it all if you wish.  You haven't been happy in decades, and your posts here during Buzz, Crean, Wojo, all prove it out.  Sad.  Really sad for you.

[willie warrior]

So you admit it is positive. And you don't want to see how high that trend can go?

Reading is fundamental. "Near a positive trend" as I stated does not mean as near a positive trend which you implied. He has not shown a positive trend as evidenced by the late season meltdown including a severe ass kicking in the dsnce.

[jesmu84]

Reading is fundamental. "Near a positive trend" as I stated does not mean as near a positive trend which you implied. He has not shown a positive trend as evidenced by the late season meltdown including a severe ass kicking in the dsnce.

My apologies for misinterpreting.

So, in your opinion, this team and the results are no better after this season than they were after wojos first season?

[Cheeks]

Not defending, but I remember Davidson making almost all their free throws except one, just Blue & Wilson raining tres.

Davidson was 14 of 22 from the free throw line, 64%.  As a team they shot 80% that year, they choked hard that game from the line...it was due to our free throw defense apparently.  They were the number one free throw shooting team in the country that year.

And they threw the ball away to win the game.  It was a gift.

We got damn lucky, which is exactly what Buzzard said.  On that day, it was better be lucky than good...thankfully.

[RJax55]

This is reasonable, but also goes both ways. Some here fail to recognize the challenges of the MU program. Some of these people are stuck in 1977, but more of them view Buzz's three-year run - which if, we're being honest, saw a lot of breaks fall our way - not as a high-water mark, but as a baseline.
That Davidson NCAA games is one of the highlights of my NCAA fandom ... but it's very interesting to think of how much the Buzz narrative changes if Davidson were able to complete a simple pass in the last 10 seconds of that game. Then he's the guy who lost a 3 vs 14 game, and was thoroughly outcoached in doing so.

I agree, but Buzz and his teams took advantage of the breaks. Wojo has not. Programs and coaches don't get endless opportunities.

I know others will disagree, but to me the horrible collapse rendered this season a huge missed opportunity. Nothing is given in the future.

[WarriorDad]

Why are peeps so willin' ta extend another year. Watt's gonna change? Rip da bandage off and let's get started, hey?

Not ready to do that yet.  It will just put us back starting all over again in my view.

[Jon]

So you admit it is positive. And you don't want to see how high that trend can go?

If I were to plot out Wojo's tenure from Day 1 there would be upward slope until this past February when the trend is now decidedly negative.

So, the trend line is negative. This fact is indisputable.

[willie warrior]

My apologies for misinterpreting.

So, in your opinion, this team and the results are no better after this season than they were after wojos first season?

Did not say that. In my opinion  the last 7 games of this season,  with the alleged talent we have, demonstrates that the team under Wojo fell flat on their ass, and spinning that we are trending positively is not realistic. It is spin.

[Pakuni]

I know others will disagree, but to me the horrible collapse rendered this season a huge missed opportunity. Nothing is given in the future.

I think everyone agrees with this.

[Cheeks]

Reading is fundamental. "Near a positive trend" as I stated does not mean as near a positive trend which you implied. He has not shown a positive trend as evidenced by the late season meltdown including a severe ass kicking in the dsnce.

You need to try again.  Woefully bad at this.

[jutaw22mu]

This.  Wojo deserves another three to four years to see if we can get where we want to be.

Lol what the heck how bout another 10?  Maybe by then we will win one tourney game.

[Cheeks]

Yeah, and if Louisville doesn't miss a wide open layup at the end of regulation, Creighton doesn't crap their pants on that inbounds play, and Nova actually executes their last possession in MKE, we'd have three more losses this season.  And if Uncle Joe had lady parts, he'd be Aunt Josephine.

All true, but that's exactly my point.  We are saying how good a coach is based on what could be defined as one play.  Or in some cases, by another team sharif the bed when our coach has nothing to do with it....the number one FT shooting team in the country at 80% making only 64% in a tournament game they lose by 1 point, was not caused by anything our coahes did....but we still benefited.  Crapshoot.  March Madness.

Mark Few said it best.

[Eldon]

I agree, but Buzz and his teams took advantage of the breaks. Wojo has not. Programs and coaches don't get endless opportunities.

I know others will disagree, but to me the horrible collapse rendered this season a huge missed opportunity. Nothing is given in the future.

As the old saying goes "luck is when preparation meets opportunity."

[Pakuni]

If I were to plot out Wojo's tenure from Day 1 there would be upward slope until this past February when the trend is now decidedly negative.

So, the trend line is negative. This fact is indisputable.

That's a bit like taking a look at a historical chart of the Dow Jones that ends in October 2008 and declaring that stocks are a losing investment.

[Cheeks]

If I were to plot out Wojo's tenure from Day 1 there would be upward slope until this past February when the trend is now decidedly negative.

So, the trend line is negative. This fact is indisputable.

The overall trend line is positive....thus far.  Doesn't mean he is the ultimate answer, but trend line overall is positives

Every team in the tournament sans one loses their last game and thus a downward result.

[WarriorDad]

I agree, but Buzz and his teams took advantage of the breaks. Wojo has not. Programs and coaches don't get endless opportunities.

I know others will disagree, but to me the horrible collapse rendered this season a huge missed opportunity. Nothing is given in the future.

I agree with this.  I also believe change should be strategic and measured, or your future will be worse than the present we currently live in.  Change for sake of change is not a good strategy.