Program trajectory and wojo

[curbina]

This is season long trend from year to year.  In this case, trend line down is a good thing because it is tied to the rating of the team.  Better than Buzz's last year by a bunch, slightly worse than Buzz's second to last year.

You must use true data NOT data from talking heads. Talking head data is just BS!

[WindyCityGoldenEagle]

As disappointing as the game was the team still came pretty damn close to meeting my expectations for the season (hit just about everything but two tourney wins) and the program is still trending towards my big picture expectations of making tourney 4 times every 5 years (so 80%) making 2nd weekend 2-3 times in that 5 year period (so 50%) and slipping into a f4 every 10-15 years.

All of that said next year is obviously a big year and anything short of 2nd weekend is a disappointment for me.

[Cheeks]

W.r.t trend lines, data used must be actual data NOT data from talking heads!

Data is from the sources I listed, the same sources that are used by the NCAA as part of their selection process. Sagarin, KenPom, RPI, NET and BPI.  Again, sorry you don't like data.  You are free to look it up yourself or just look here at the raw numbers, but in the event you believe I processed them wrong or lied....by all means the sources are all public. Knock yourself out.

[curbina]

True, I don't like your data! Your data is just BS, ratings from talking heads!

[Cheeks]

True, I don't like your data! Your data is just BS, ratings from talking heads!

LOL.

Who is the "talking head" that represents the NCAA Net Rankings?  BPI talking head?  RPI talking head?   This should be good.

[Blackhat]

We're still building folks.   Keep your hard hats on.

[curbina]

Chico, you don't know sh!t about data science! You must use true team data NOT some talking head projections!

[curbina]

LOL.

Who is the "talking head" that represents the NCAA Net Rankings?  BPI talking head?  RPI talking head?   This should be good.

Again, you don't know sh!t about data science! Dumb as a box of rocks!

[muguru]

Here's the trend line for only Wojo, still trending the right way.  Just facts.  Trend line even better.  Sorry the data doesn't fit your agenda.  Apologize when you are ready.

Note:  2019 are not final numbers as tournament still playing.  I will post final numbers when the tournament is done.

They are ONLY facts if YOU want them to be..You are using predictive measures to support your argument. That's bunk. How about you throw those out the window and look at REAL results...

Year 1- Losing record, no tournament
Year 2- No tournament with an NBA draft pick on the roster
Year 3- NCAA's as a 10 seed...got blasted by 20
Year 4- NIT(anytime you go from NCAA to NIT it's a step back)
Year 5- NCAA's as a 5 seed...blasted by 20 to a mid major. When you factor in a 1-6 end to a season, at the time the slide started were no worse than a 3 seed, needed 1 win to win a BE title(with 4 remaining), that is NOT a positive trend line. Your sgarain etc, tell us NOTHING. They are simply numbers. Look at the real results and what has occurred and the trend line is NOT good, especially the way they ended the season...if that isn't trending down..I don't know what is.

Since you want to site numbers(which you seem to love so much), tell me..what were the odds that with 4 games to go, and only needing to win one of those, with two of them at home, that a team(any team) would NOT get at least one of those wins?? I know the answer and i'm pretty sure you do to. If you don't understand how absolutely astronomical the odds were against them not winning at least one of those games to win a ttile, then there is nothing I can say. If you think accomplishing an incredibly rare feat like they did with that, is "trending in the right direction". Then all hope for you is lost...For real.

[jesmu84]

They are ONLY facts if YOU want them to be..You are using predictive measures to support your argument. That's bunk. How about you throw those out the window and look at REAL results...

Year 1- Losing record, no tournament
Year 2- No tournament with an NBA draft pick on the roster
Year 3- NCAA's as a 10 seed...got blasted by 20
Year 4- NIT(anytime you go from NCAA to NIT it's a step back)
Year 5- NCAA's as a 5 seed...blasted by 20 to a mid major. When you factor in a 1-6 end to a season, at the time the slide started were no worse than a 3 seed, needed 1 win to win a BE title(with 4 remaining), that is NOT a positive trend line. Your sgarain etc, tell us NOTHING. They are simply numbers. Look at the real results and what has occurred and the trend line is NOT good, especially the way they ended the season...if that isn't trending down..I don't know what is.

Since you want to site numbers(which you seem to love so much), tell me..what were the odds that with 4 games to go, and only needing to win one of those, with two of them at home, that a team(any team) would NOT get at least one of those wins?? I know the answer and i'm pretty sure you do to. If you don't understand how absolutely astronomical the odds were against them not winning at least one of those games to win a ttile, then there is nothing I can say. If you think accomplishing an incredibly rare feat like they did with that, is "trending in the right direction". Then all hope for you is lost...For real.

Uh. Even by your own "data", that's 100% a positive trend.

[Dr. Blackheart]

When Scoop breaks into a Data Pissing Match...

[Goose]

Fxxk the data. Watch other teams play and see how we stack up. Frankly, I did and we don't. In reality, we played a sh1t schedule and the data looks good. Don't blame MU on sh1t schedule, it just ended up played 30 games against teams were not elite this year.

[Blackhat]

Wojo should make a banner out of that chart.   Get the banner ball rolling again at MU......

[Boston Warrior]

From the eye test...

I think beat UCI and Ohio State...

I am not sure we beat anyone else that's left in the tournament.

No guarantees that the uci and Ohio State make the sweet 16

[Goose]

Boston

Agreed. What does that say about the data trend? It was a crap year in college ball, outside of 8-12 teams, and we won a bunch of close games against similar talent levels. Not a bad thing, just reality.

[muguru]

Uh. Even by your own "data", that's 100% a positive trend.

Okay so they went from NIT to the NCAAS as a 5 seed...you say that's good..you are welcome to that. HOWEVER when you consider the fact that on February 27th, they were absolutely no worse then a 3 seed and finished with a 1-6 ending and DROPPED all the way down to a 5 seed, how is that a positive trend?? I will tell you what..I will say this...from the end of last season until February 27th this year...they were definitely trending up...but from February 27th until the end of this season, they weren't just trending down, they were trending down off a cliff.

[jesmu84]

Okay so they went from NIT to the NCAAS as a 5 seed...you say that's good..you are welcome to that. HOWEVER when you consider the fact that on February 27th, they were absolutely no worse then a 3 seed and finished with a 1-6 ending and DROPPED all the way down to a 5 seed, how is that a positive trend?? I will tell you what..I will say this...from the end of last season until February 27th this year...they were definitely trending up...but from February 27th until the end of this season, they weren't just trending down, they were trending down off a cliff.

Actually, i said it was a positive trend. Which it is. Thanks for agreeing

[jesmu84]

Boston

Agreed. What does that say about the data trend? It was a crap year in college ball, outside of 8-12 teams, and we won a bunch of close games against similar talent levels. Not a bad thing, just reality.

Yup. Reality. Just like the positive trend is reality.

[Goose]

jesmu

The data is not lying, just not telling the whole story. College basketball was down this year. Big gap between the really good teams and everyone else. That is not MU's fault and they did well against similar teams. I am not disputing facts, they are correct.

There are plenty of examples of data being misleading. Golf equipment has changed the game, steroids changed baseball, new D rules in NFL and list goes on. My only point, you still have to use your head in digesting data.

I will concede that MU was on the upper end of about 40 teams that were light years behind the good teams. My concession is based off record, which cannot be disputed by me.

[muguru]

Yup. Reality. Just like the positive trend is reality.

1-6 to end the season from February 27th on and failing to win one of 4 games(two at home), and NOT winning a Big east title when it was essentially a done deal based on probability/odds is a positive trend?? If you were okay with how the season ended, so be it...I would think that would be weird, but whatever.

[jesmu84]

jesmu

The data is not lying, just not telling the whole story. College basketball was down this year. Big gap between the really good teams and everyone else. That is not MU's fault and they did well against similar teams. I am not disputing facts, they are correct.

There are plenty of examples of data being misleading. Golf equipment has changed the game, steroids changed baseball, new D rules in NFL and list goes on. My only point, you still have to use your head in digesting data.

I will concede that MU was on the upper end of about 40 teams that were light years behind the good teams. My concession is based off record, which cannot be disputed by me.

Understood and agreed Goose. As I've mentioned, for me, Wojo/team/program/whatever, are trending upward over last 5 years (wojos tenure). Let's see how far he can take them. Maybe this is it. Maybe it's not. I want to find out.

[jesmu84]

1-6 to end the season from February 27th on and failing to win one of 4 games(two at home), and NOT winning a Big east title when it was essentially a done deal based on probability/odds is a positive trend?? If you were okay with how the season ended, so be it...I would think that would be weird, but whatever.

NIT to NCAA 5 seed. Positive trend. Keep deflecting though

[Silent Verbal]

NIT to NCAA 5 seed. Positive trend. Keep deflecting though

NCAA 3 seed to NCAA 5 seed in final three weeks of the season, and then ass kicking in the tournament by a 12 seed.  Negative trend.

[curbina]

If MU basketball was trending upward and Wojo was fulfilling all expectations then this board would not be in such turmoil! I think Wojo is a losing One-And-Done coach!

[RushmoreAcademy]

He earned the 5th highest seed in 40 years, and did what with it exactly?? Getting the 5th highest seed in 40 years is 100% meaningless, if you don't do a thing with it. I mean do you get to hang a banner for something like that?? Do you not even understand that Coaching at any level from college and above is about results, and winning?? Any Coach will tell you that.

Would getting to the Round of 32 mean anything?? Maybe not on the surface, but it at least shows people you can get to the tournament and win when you do get there. Look how much Buzz won when he got to the tournament. I think the biggest problem is now that the administration doesn't really give a F, how good the program is. They really don't. They don't care if they win at the highest level or not. Bring in good kids, that stay out of trouble, produce mid major results on the court..they are fine with that.

2 tournament appearances in 5 years..don't give me this "look what he started with" nonsense. Even if you cut him some slack for the first four years...this was year 5...he had the best team he has ever had..and it's not close. What did that result in?? A monumental collapse at the end of the year, no BE title(when all they had to do was win 1 game out of 4), no Big East tournament title, and a loss to a mid major as a higher seed. The administration is okay with that now?? Apparently so, and that's really really pathetic with the resources they put into the BB program. Nothing like acting mid major ish...at Marquette, the MINIMUM expectation should be going to the tourney every single year..bare minimum. Apparently it's an "honor" now to be chosen for the NCAA tournament. Is this Wofford or something?? There's a place where they should celebrate getting an invite every so often. And...they won a game too! As a higher seed. Imagine that!

You don't think it wouldn't be good for the program?? I assume because you THINK there would be mass transfers?? Well, Sam wouldn't leave(he's a Senior that would make ZERO sense), which means Joey would stay(he'd lose a year of eligibility if he left), and Markus will be back(I'm pretty sure). Keep those 3 and bring in someone that can actually do something with that kind of talent. Someone that can make in game adjustments. That has a bag of tricks for when it's needed. And most of all, someone that doesn't say "well examine that and see if we can figure out what happened", in regards to the late season collapse. That's the one that pushed me over the edge and told me he was absolutely in over his head. You wait until the end of the year to "figure it out"?

No, you damn well should have figured it out and corrected it after the second straight loss. That's what a good Coach does. Yet we saw NOTHING different during that stretch. Not even something as small as a starting line up change. Nothing like showing you have no idea what happened, or how to fix it and not even trying something(anything) to help the team snap out of it.

Pro-tip: You have to hit the caps lock a second time to turn it off.