Free Cain

[Windyplayer]

Cain needs to play 10-15 minutes if only to pull down some much needed boards while providing serviceable defense and offense. He has by the far the best instincts after the ball clangs off the rim. Defensive rebounding is becoming a major major issue; I believe he's worthy of strong consideration to mitigate it.

[muguru]

Cain needs to play 10-15 minutes if only to pull down some much needed boards while providing serviceable defense and offense. He has by the far the best instincts after the ball clangs off the rim. Defensive rebounding is becoming a major major issue; I believe he's worthy of strong consideration to mitigate it.

Why, so he can turn it over 8 times in those 15 minutes like everyone else??

[skianth16]

After a rough game or two, there's always a search form fans for some kind of silver bullet that would have saved the day. This year there have been a number of posts about Jamal and Brendan (even Greg), saying that if they just got their minutes, the game could have been different. With Jamal and Brendan, we've seen enough of them this year to know that there are more downs than ups. They have their moments, but they also have weaknesses that limit their effectiveness.

Rebounding has been an issue, but I think turnovers have been a bigger problem. Jamal may help with the rebounds, but his TO rate shows that he's still got some work to do on the offensive side before he can earn those extra minutes. I respect the way he's handled his diminished playing time this year, but I also understand Wojo's reasoning for making that decision. For now, the bad outweighs the good a little too much.

[tower912]

At the expense of whom?   Some from Sam, some from Sacar, some from Joey, some from Markus?   Don't get me wrong, in theory, I would prefer more balanced minutes.   But how do you reconcile more minutes for Jamal when teams attack him as soon as he comes in the game, both defensively and when he touches the ball?  And so far, he only occasionally steps up.

[FrennA]

Why, so he can turn it over 8 times in those 15 minutes like everyone else??

Haven't you watched this year?  You're allowed to turn it over as many times as you want provided your name is not Cain.  If it is, you get benched after your first TO. 

We've had these TO spouts all year round.  I am pissed for Cain.  I assume I'm missing something like effort in practice or something.  I don't know.  But especially when he was a serviceable Freshman last year to seeing all his minutes taken by two Freshman this year.  I don't get it. 

[4everwarriors]

Free Tyler Herro, hey?

[nyg]

At the expense of whom?   Some from Sam, some from Sacar, some from Joey, some from Markus?   Don't get me wrong, in theory, I would prefer more balanced minutes.   But how do you reconcile more minutes for Jamal when teams attack him as soon as he comes in the game, both defensively and when he touches the ball?  And so far, he only occasionally steps up.

And next year, add the some from McEwen, some from Elliott?, who will more than likely be ahead of Cain in playing time.
In BE play, Cain has played a total of 69 minutes, 14 of which were against Butler and has 5 DNPs.  Thats an average of 4 minutes per game.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out. 

[#UnleashSean]

Yes please.

[Herman Cain]

Cain will get some opportunities down the stretch. I am confident he will perform well when given the opportunity. The kid is a real team player and is working hard in practice to get back into the rotation. He has a common problem in college athletics, the kid in front of him (Sacar) is  consistently doing well and has the coaches confidence. Until he is consistently better than Sacar in practice nothing is going to change.

[Norm]

Cain will get some opportunities down the stretch. I am confident he will perform well when given the opportunity. The kid is a real team player and is working hard in practice to get back into the rotation. He has a common problem in college athletics, the kid in front of him (Sacar) is  consistently doing well and has the coaches confidence. Until he is consistently better than Sacar in practice nothing is going to change.

I doubt we see much of Cain at all down the stretch. Wojo does not trust him this year and will not play him unless forced to with an injury. Since his back to back good performances against DePaul and Butler he's gotten 5, 2 and 1 minutes played in the last 3 games, two of which were losses with plenty of starters stinking up the joint.

[1SE]

Cain's role on this team is such a mind-bend. It's hard to see how a kid as highly rated (and with as much upside as he had/has) stomach's DNPs in his 2nd season. But it's a testament to his character that it doesn't appear (externally) to get him down.

That said, maybe that's all well and good when you're winning.

When you drop one you should win where your teammates are struggling, and you only see 1 minute of action, maybe it gets a bit tougher.

I've always felt you need a minimum of 3 or 4 minutes of run to get into a game. I don't like this "we'll pull him after 40 seconds if his first touch is a bad one" - when kids know that's going to happen they get tight and making a mistake becomes more likely.

[MU82]

I'm not saying it wouldn't have been worth a shot to play Cain a little more tonight. When things aren't working, try something different.

However, we did win 12 of 13 games over nearly 2 months to take over first place place in the BEast even though Cain averaged only 4.5 mpg.

Also, our 8-game winning streak to close out non-conference play just so happened to start when Wojo stopped playing Cain double-digit minutes. (Cain had played 15-18 minutes in each of the first 5 games, when we went 3-2; he averaged 5.3 mpg over the next 6 and we won 'em all.)

Not blaming Cain for the mediocre start to the season or saying him getting lots of pine time is the reason we became the best team in the BEast. Just suggesting that he might not be some kind of magic solution.

[GooooMarquette]

IMHO he could have gotten 2-3 of Joey's minutes and maybe 2-3 of Sam's. Neither was playing well today, and both looked tired.

And for those saying or implying Jamal is a TO machine...he has played 31 minutes over the last five games, and has 2 TOs during that stretch. Given how we were handing the ball to Creighton all afternoon, it seems like it would have been worth a shot to see if he could have helped.

[MU82]

IMHO he could have gotten 2-3 of Joey's minutes and maybe 2-3 of Sam's. Neither was playing well today, and both looked tired.

And for those saying or implying Jamal is a TO machine...he has played 31 minutes over the last five games, and has 2 TOs during that stretch. Given how we were handing the ball to Creighton all afternoon, it seems like it would have been worth a shot to see if he could have helped.

Reasonable.

[Don_Kojis]

Bench Joey.  He looks like he is stuck in cement.   It might be he is a freshmen.  But start Cain.  Put Joey in a little later.  Joey is so slow.  Every player he covers takes him to the basket. Cain is quicker.  It is worth a chance.

[TheGym]

Why, so he can turn it over 8 times in those 15 minutes like everyone else??

That would be a step up from what Joey Hauser has been putting together as of late.

[tower912]

'Free Cain'.  Isn't that every druggies dream?

[burger]

I thought a Cain Bailey Hauser Hauser Howard line up would take them out of what they were doing.....

And tell Cain and Bailey not to shoot unless left completely wide open.....

[Benny B]

https://www.youtube.com/v/y-PG5VgR5Ro

[Warrior1969]

Cain was absolutely BRUTAL in the non conference.  Had a couple decent games a few games back.  If he was killing it in practice you think Wojo wouldn't be playing him more?  Remember all the conversations on which freshman last year had a higher ceiling?  lots thought Cain.  He has just had an awful season period.

[rocky_warrior]

Elliott and Cain seem to play well together.  I expect Cain will play better when he buddy is back on the floor again.

[Norm]

Cain was absolutely BRUTAL in the non conference.  Had a couple decent games a few games back.  If he was killing it in practice you think Wojo wouldn't be playing him more?  Remember all the conversations on which freshman last year had a higher ceiling?  lots thought Cain.  He has just had an awful season period.

Really? Cain was absolutely brutal in the non-conference? Or just a game or two in non-conference?

In the season's first 3 games where he played 15, 18 and 16 minutes, he was 6-15 from the field, including 4-10 from 3, had 18 rebounds, 2 steals, 3 blocks and zero turnovers. The 4th game against Presbyterian was pretty bad shooting wise, where he was 0-5, 0-4 from 3, and grabbed 3 rebounds with no turnovers, steals or blocks.

The 5th game against Kansas was the first game he had any turnovers, where he was credited with 3. He played 15 minutes and was 2-4 from the field, with 4 rebounds and an assist. The following 6th game against Louisville was the first game he did not play at least 10 minutes, where he had 2 rebounds and 2 turnovers. He did not take a shot that game. These are the only two games this season where Cain had more than 1 turnover in back-to-back games. They account for 30% of his turnovers for the entire season.

After Louisville, he got 9 minutes against Charleston Southern in the 7th game and made the only shot he took, with 1 rebound and 1 block.

In games 8, 9 and 10 against Kansas State, UTEP and Wisconsin, he played 1, 2 and 2 minutes for a grand total of 5 minutes, with no stats except for an assist, a turnover and a steal against UTEP.

In game 11 against North Dakota, he got 9 minutes where he was 2-2 from the field, with 1 rebound and 1 turnover. In game 12 against Buffalo, he played 18 minutes and went 3-3 from the field, with 5 rebounds, 1 turnover and 2 blocks.

In game 13, the last non-conference game against Southern, he got the most minutes of the season with 27, but struggled shooting going 0-6, including 0-2 from 3, and 1-4 from the line. However, he played great D and grabbed 8 rebounds, had 4 steals to go with 1 turnover.

So, his stats for the non-conference were:

14-36 from the field (39%)
4-17 from 3 (24%)
42 rebounds
2 assists
9 turnovers
7 steals
6 blocks

He had two bad shooting games where he went 0-11. In the other games he shot 14-25 for 56%. He had two games where he had more than 1 turnover, and he didn't have a turnover in 5 games where he played more than 9 minutes each.

So, looking at these stats, I would not say he was "absolutely brutal" in non-conference play. He got benched for his mistakes for sure. And he lost Wojo's confidence for sure in the Kansas and Louisville games.

But I would also note that in the limited playing time he's gotten in conference play he has only missed 2 shots, where he's 6-8 from the field, 2-3 from 3. He's grabbed 16 rebounds in 71 minutes of conference action, has 8 turnovers, 3 assists and 4 steals. He also has 5 DNPs in conference games.

[MU82]

Really? Cain was absolutely brutal in the non-conference? Or just a game or two in non-conference?

In the season's first 3 games where he played 15, 18 and 16 minutes, he was 6-15 from the field, including 4-10 from 3, had 18 rebounds, 2 steals, 3 blocks and zero turnovers. The 4th game against Presbyterian was pretty bad shooting wise, where he was 0-5, 0-4 from 3, and grabbed 3 rebounds with no turnovers, steals or blocks.

The 5th game against Kansas was the first game he had any turnovers, where he was credited with 3. He played 15 minutes and was 2-4 from the field, with 4 rebounds and an assist. The following 6th game against Louisville was the first game he did not play at least 10 minutes, where he had 2 rebounds and 2 turnovers. He did not take a shot that game. These are the only two games this season where Cain had more than 1 turnover in back-to-back games. They account for 30% of his turnovers for the entire season.

After Louisville, he got 9 minutes against Charleston Southern in the 7th game and made the only shot he took, with 1 rebound and 1 block.

In games 8, 9 and 10 against Kansas State, UTEP and Wisconsin, he played 1, 2 and 2 minutes for a grand total of 5 minutes, with no stats except for an assist, a turnover and a steal against UTEP.

In game 11 against North Dakota, he got 9 minutes where he was 2-2 from the field, with 1 rebound and 1 turnover. In game 12 against Buffalo, he played 18 minutes and went 3-3 from the field, with 5 rebounds, 1 turnover and 2 blocks.

In game 13, the last non-conference game against Southern, he got the most minutes of the season with 27, but struggled shooting going 0-6, including 0-2 from 3, and 1-4 from the line. However, he played great D and grabbed 8 rebounds, had 4 steals to go with 1 turnover.

So, his stats for the non-conference were:

14-36 from the field (39%)
4-17 from 3 (24%)
42 rebounds
2 assists
9 turnovers
7 steals
6 blocks

He had two bad shooting games where he went 0-11. In the other games he shot 14-25 for 56%. He had two games where he had more than 1 turnover, and he didn't have a turnover in 5 games where he played more than 9 minutes each.

So, looking at these stats, I would not say he was "absolutely brutal" in non-conference play. He got benched for his mistakes for sure. And he lost Wojo's confidence for sure in the Kansas and Louisville games.

But I would also note that in the limited playing time he's gotten in conference play he has only missed 2 shots, where he's 6-8 from the field, 2-3 from 3. He's grabbed 16 rebounds in 71 minutes of conference action, has 8 turnovers, 3 assists and 4 steals. He also has 5 DNPs in conference games.

All reasonable points.

I'll still side with the coach who sees every player every day in practice, the coach who has led us to a 23-6 record.

[Windyplayer]

After a rough game or two, there's always a search form fans for some kind of silver bullet that would have saved the day. This year there have been a number of posts about Jamal and Brendan (even Greg), saying that if they just got their minutes, the game could have been different. With Jamal and Brendan, we've seen enough of them this year to know that there are more downs than ups. They have their moments, but they also have weaknesses that limit their effectiveness.

Rebounding has been an issue, but I think turnovers have been a bigger problem. Jamal may help with the rebounds, but his TO rate shows that he's still got some work to do on the offensive side before he can earn those extra minutes. I respect the way he's handled his diminished playing time this year, but I also understand Wojo's reasoning for making that decision. For now, the bad outweighs the good a little too much.

Good points. And I am not looking for Cain to be a savior, only to impose his will on the glass for a few stretches. Love those rebounds where he skies from nowhere - can be pretty demoralizing for the opposition as well.

[Billy Hoyle]

All reasonable points.

I'll still side with the coach who sees every player every day in practice, the coach who has led us to a 23-6 record.

My thoughts exactly.  I'm always amused by fans who aren't at practice every day thinking they know more than the coaches, whose job it is to win, as to who should play.

Wojo (and every coach for that matter) is going to put out the lineup he thinks will get him the W in that particular game.  I remember Crean starting Chris Grimm against Bucky and people wondering what the hell he was doing. Grimm shut down Alondo Tucker. If Cain has earned minutes in Wojo's eyes he'd get them.