UCLA

[dgies9156]

I go on what experts say, which excludes you.  Even Hall of Fame coaches like Bob Knigh, Coach K, Boeheim, Lute Olson, Izzo, etc have lost in the first round to very low seeds....did they forget to coach that day?  Nonsense.  Of course they didn't.  Coach K forgot how to beat Lehigh or Mercer?  Lol.  Yes, even the all time greats in this format get bit early by teams they shouldn't lose to.  Crapshoot.

Uhh, gee, are any of you Scoopers old enough to remember another "high" rated team  who lost to a nobody?

March 1978 -- Indianapolis, IN. A certain team we love lost to an unheralded Miami of Ohio team in a crapfest where the defending national champion lost its poise.

Yes, I know they did not seed the tournament back then, but the MOH loss very much was the 1978 equivalent of a 16 beating a 1. You never know and as Virginia found out, you cannot take an opponent lightly in tournament play.

As to the bigger question of Wojo and UCLA, I pray it's not going to happen. Coach Wojo is building something here and if we lose yet another coach at the point where we have built ourselves to national recognition -- if not prominence -- then it may be Hiroshima. With Nagasaki for good measure.

What our program has lacked since Coach McGuire discovered television has been consistency. We can argue until the cows come home (which in Wisconsin is late in the day) but each time an MU coach gets to the point where we have some prominence, we lose him to someone else. I candidly think Coach Wojo is different and somehow he likes it here, the persistent Scoop criticism notwithstanding.

I think back to Coach McGuire and while I know it was a different era, something kept him at Marquette for a long time. When Father Raynor stepped up and refused to void Coach McGuire's contract, the Coach never had a temper tantrum, never screamed that he was treated unfairly and never openly thought about leaving when his contract expired. He was a New York guy who found peace, happiness and a National Championship in Milwaukee. Here's hoping Coach  Wojo does too. 

[Lennys Tap]

I am to lazy to look. what is tony bennett's overall record in tourney games.  What is his record in regular season? What is his record in these to areas as a favorite, as an underdog?

I'm going out to play golf, but I'll get back to you later with details of his tournament record at UVA. I really like the guy, but it's awful. I was stunned.

[Galway Eagle]

Miami of OH wouldn't be equal to 16 v 1 as there were only 32 teams in the tournament... unless the argument is that the tournament was weaker back then because crap teams were still in with less tough middle teams.

[KampusFoods]

I'm going out to play golf, but I'll get back to you later with details of his tournament record at UVA. I really like the guy, but it's awful. I was stunned.

By my count he is 7-6 in tournament games at UVA. One E8 and One S16. Not great considering the good seeds they've had, but certainly not awful, as you say.

I think they are a Final 4 team this year, but I do tend to agree with Chicos' "crapshoot" mantra.

[Jon]

The league is definitely trash.  Brand is a problem, network a bigger problem.

Jams

One of my colleagues is a big U Dub donor and supporter. He is emphatic that Hopkins is brilliant and building something very special in Seattle.

Makes me wonder what if... as Hopkins was on the short list at MU when we hired Wojo.

What I heard is that Hopkins was considered the more ready candidate but MU was convinced Hopkins would bolt for Cuse as soon as the then 69 year old Boeheim hung up his Chuck Taylors.

The Twelve is down across the board but U Dub has it going in hoops and football. And Hopkins is now doing it with Romar's guys. Look at the talent he is bringing to U Dub - they will be a power for years to come. And unlike MU it is happening in year 2. 

[wadesworld]

Jams

One of my colleagues is a big U Dub donor and supporter. He is emphatic that Hopkins is brilliant and building something very special in Seattle.

Makes me wonder what if... as Hopkins was on the short list at MU when we hired Wojo.

What I heard is that Hopkins was considered the more ready candidate but MU was convinced Hopkins would bolt for Cuse as soon as the then 69 year old Boeheim hung up his Chuck Taylors.

The Twelve is down across the board but U Dub has it going in hoops and football. And Hopkins is now doing it with Romar's guys. Look at the talent he is bringing to U Dub - they will be a power for years to come. And unlike MU it is happening in year 2.

In year two he has a whopping 0 wins over teams projected to be at large NCAA Tournament teams!

Romar never had issues bringing in talent.

[oldwarrior81]

back in 1978, heading into the tournament Marquette was ranked #8 and Miami (Ohio) was ranked #19.

or the rankings equivalent of a low 2-seed playing in the home territory of a 5-seed.  For the opportunity of playing #1 overall Kentucky.

I was still shocked by the loss.

[Jon]

In year two he has a whopping 0 wins over teams projected to be at large NCAA Tournament teams!

In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team which was 9-22 and has already won 20 games.

In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team that finished dead last in conference, 2-16, and running away with the Pac 12.

In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team to the NCAA for the first time in a decade.

In Year 1 he signed three 4 stars and one 5 star for the 3rd best recruiting class in the nation

In Year 2 he has already signed two 5 stars and a 4 star which will be another Top 5 national recruiting class

I expect that once he has his players U Dub will be a force to be reckoned with. He is building something big.

Hopkins was very nearly the MU coach. For a reason.

[wadesworld]

In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team which was 9-22 and has already won 20 games.

In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team that finished dead last in conference, 2-16, and running away with the Pac 12.

In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team to the NCAA for the first time in a decade.

In Year 1 he signed three 4 stars and one 5 star for the 3rd best recruiting class in the nation

In Year 2 he has already signed two 5 stars and a 4 star which will be another Top 5 national recruiting class

I expect that once he has his players U Dub will be a force to be reckoned with. He is building something big.

Hopkins was very nearly the MU coach. For a reason.

And yet, 0 wins over teams projected to be at large NCAA Tournament teams.  There are a lot of teams out there that would run through the Pac12 this season.  It's quite literally the worst a power 6 conference has ever been in the history of college basketball.  If the BE was as bad in 2016 as the P12 is in 2019, Wojo would've had MU in the Tournament and running through their conference as well.

8 years = a decade nowadays.

Not sure what source you're using, but 247 had his 2018 class ranked 41st, which is outside of the top 3.  (Wojo's first recruiting class was ranked 12th)

Not sure what source you're using, but 247 has his 2019 class ranked 20th at the moment, which is outside of the top 5.  (Wojo's second class was ranked 22nd)

And Wojo IS the MU coach.  For a reason.

[mu03eng]

Of course the worst dysfunction was Fr. Pilarz, but I'm way off topic.  Nothing else was even close.  Da*n the Board for holding to their 'Jesuit only' rule one iteration too long.  BTW, Owen Sullivan is a rock star.  We are in very capable hands these days.  IDK if any of you have interacted with him but what a pro.

Yeah, Pilarz is the one thing I look back on in my 20 year association with the university and ask myself "what the f&ck were they thinking"

[Jon]

Yeah, Pilarz is the one thing I look back on in my 20 year association with the university and ask myself "what the f&ck were they thinking"

As an alum of Georgetown Prep (an "elite east coast prep school" according to one woman) I can state there is a lot more to the Scotty Story.

That is one f#cking creepy individual.

The Roman Church needs to allow married priests. The priesthood is an unmitigated disaster - a haven for creeps and bastion of psychosexual degenerates.

[Cheeks]

Uhh, gee, are any of you Scoopers old enough to remember another "high" rated team  who lost to a nobody?

March 1978 -- Indianapolis, IN. A certain team we love lost to an unheralded Miami of Ohio team in a crapfest where the defending national champion lost its poise.

Yup, in fact I posted that earlier today about our Warriors in '78.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=57899.msg1092824#msg1092824

[Cheeks]

Any shots Cheeks we'll ever see the Pac 10 Network on DirecTV?

Considering the same company just dropped Pac 12 Network from U-verse in the last few months......

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/27/att-walks-away-and-takes-u-verse-with-it-what-it-means-for-the-pac-12-networks/

[Cheeks]

UCLA can't afford Brad Stevens. The Celtics extended his six-year, $22 million contract after just three seasons. Terms weren't disclosed. But based on other NBA coaching deals signed at the time, chances are Stevens earns somewhere in the neighborhood of $7 to $10 million a year.

Steve Alford was in his sixth year at UCLA with a seven-year, $18.2 million contract ($2.6 million per year). Plus, he's due $3.6 million as a buyout.

Stevens to Duke, not UCLA

[Cheeks]

I'm going out to play golf, but I'll get back to you later with details of his tournament record at UVA. I really like the guy, but it's awful. I was stunned.

10-8 overall at UVA and Wazzu.   7-6 at UVA.  One Elite 8, two Sweet 16s.   

As illustrated time and again, Knight, Coach K (multiple times), Izzo, Boeheim, Olson, Huggins, Self, Massamino, etc, etc, all elite and some HOF coaches....have lost in the first round to double digit seeds when they were a 3 or better seed.  Go down to a 4 seed, and it really opens up further.  Did they forget how to coach that day?  Of course not.  One game situations a lot can happen, including bad matchups or simply having a bad day.  The tournament is littered with those teams having losses.  How is it possible considering how elite they are as coaches?  Because games are played, and stuff happens called sports....nerves, off days, glorious days for the other team, etc.  That's why.

[Cheeks]

Jams

One of my colleagues is a big U Dub donor and supporter. He is emphatic that Hopkins is brilliant and building something very special in Seattle.

Makes me wonder what if... as Hopkins was on the short list at MU when we hired Wojo.

What I heard is that Hopkins was considered the more ready candidate but MU was convinced Hopkins would bolt for Cuse as soon as the then 69 year old Boeheim hung up his Chuck Taylors.

The Twelve is down across the board but U Dub has it going in hoops and football. And Hopkins is now doing it with Romar's guys. Look at the talent he is bringing to U Dub - they will be a power for years to come. And unlike MU it is happening in year 2.

Power in what...the Pac 12?  The conference ranks 7th in basketball, behind the Big East and AAC (both non P5 conferences).  In football ranked 5th of the P5 conferences.  I think a lot of Peterson and Hopkins is off to a good start largely because he has brought in the Syracuse zone that the other Pac 12 schools haven't figured out yet, but the conference is really struggling right now in the two main sports. 

[Its DJOver]

10-8 overall at UVA and Wazzu.   7-6 at UVA.  One Elite 8, two Sweet 16s.   

As illustrated time and again, Knight, Coach K (multiple times), Izzo, Boeheim, Olson, Huggins, Self, Massamino, etc, etc, all elite and some HOF coaches....have lost in the first round to double digit seeds when they were a 3 or better seed.  Go down to a 4 seed, and it really opens up further.  Did they forget how to coach that day?  Of course not.  One game situations a lot can happen, including bad matchups or simply having a bad day.  The tournament is littered with those teams having losses.  How is it possible considering how elite they are as coaches?  Because games are played, and stuff happens called sports....nerves, off days, glorious days for the other team, etc.  That's why.

Yea, all the coaches that you listed have had bad tourney appearances, but they have also had more tourney success than Bennett.  Bennett is a great coach, but there comes a time when regular season success isn't enough (BTW if he continues to have the regular season success that he has, that point is a long ways off IMO).  How many 1 seeds without a FF would it take for higher ups to be unsatisfied.  Even before the whole FBI thing, there were grumblings that Miller couldn't get the job done at Zona.  For all the talent that has come through there in his tenure, the postseason results are sorely lacking.  It's a tough balance, Pitt and UT made the wrong choice getting rid of their coaches that had great regular seasons but poor post season.  For being a HOF coach, I would have thought that Bo would have won more than 2 games against higher seeds, UW-Madison was clearly content with the success that he was having, stuck with him, and the partnership worked out great.  It's similar to the point I like to make when people bring up the Buzz versus Wojo debate.  Yes Buzz's rebuild went faster, and has had more tourney appearances to date, but they have the same amount of tourney wins, and to a lot of people, (even if it is unfair) that's all that matters.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team which was 9-22 and has already won 20 games.

In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team that finished dead last in conference, 2-16, and running away with the Pac 12.

In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team to the NCAA for the first time in a decade.

In Year 1 he signed three 4 stars and one 5 star for the 3rd best recruiting class in the nation

In Year 2 he has already signed two 5 stars and a 4 star which will be another Top 5 national recruiting class

I expect that once he has his players U Dub will be a force to be reckoned with. He is building something big.

Hopkins was very nearly the MU coach. For a reason.

Crash, I was also intrigued by Hopkins when Buzz left. Not sure who would have been the better hire. The concern about him bolting for Syracuse is definitely a real one. One of my good friends is a big time Syracuse booster and he still holds that the second Jimmy B retires, Hopkins is coming back home. IIRC, this was also before Boeheim announced he was sticking around for a few more years, there was a lot of speculation back then that he was a year or two away from retirement.

I liked Hopkins as a candidate, was near the top of my personal list. That being said there's a lot of misinformation in this post. In year 1 he signed 1 4-star and 4 3-stars for the 41st best class in the nation per 247. And that 4-star wasn't a borderline 5-star, he was ranked #109. In year 2, he has signed 1 5-star, 1-4 star, and 1 3-star so far. And again, that 4-star isn't a borderline 5-star, he's ranked #82, so I'm not sure what second 5-star you are thinking of. The class is currently ranked #20 though he may still add onto it. And as Wades pointed out, Washington was in the tournament 8 years ago, still a very long time, but not a decade.

It's hard to tell how good Washington is this season, most services put them in the 30s to 50s. I did watch their matchup with Gonzaga and they gave the Zags all they could handle, I came away impressed. They definitely looked like a tourney team to me. I think they may take a step backwards next season. They will lose four starters to graduation and I've also seen Nowell's name pop up on some mock drafts (though all as a 2nd rounder). If Hopkins loses his entire starting lineup (or even 4/5) that would be hard for any coach to recover from in a single offseason.

[BCHoopster]

UCLA can't afford someone? You're joking, right?

State school, no they will not pay a coach as much as you think, never has

[The Sultan]

State school, no they will not pay a coach as much as you think, never has

https://www.thestreet.com/lifestyle/sports/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches-14774331

Of the top 20 highest paid college basketball coaches, 18 are working at public universities.

[Cheeks]

Yea, all the coaches that you listed have had bad tourney appearances, but they have also had more tourney success than Bennett.  Bennett is a great coach, but there comes a time when regular season success isn't enough (BTW if he continues to have the regular season success that he has, that point is a long ways off IMO).  How many 1 seeds without a FF would it take for higher ups to be unsatisfied.  Even before the whole FBI thing, there were grumblings that Miller couldn't get the job done at Zona.  For all the talent that has come through there in his tenure, the postseason results are sorely lacking.  It's a tough balance, Pitt and UT made the wrong choice getting rid of their coaches that had great regular seasons but poor post season.  For being a HOF coach, I would have thought that Bo would have won more than 2 games against higher seeds, UW-Madison was clearly content with the success that he was having, stuck with him, and the partnership worked out great.  It's similar to the point I like to make when people bring up the Buzz versus Wojo debate.  Yes Buzz's rebuild went faster, and has had more tourney appearances to date, but they have the same amount of tourney wins, and to a lot of people, (even if it is unfair) that's all that matters.

Yes, but the greater point is if even a HOF coach can go out in the first round, why is it hard to understand the nature of the NCAA tournament?  Most of those guys have also coached LONGER than Bennett.  The other side of the argument, to hear some people here tell it Bennett is a horrible NCAA tournament coach while another guy those same guys love has a Final Four, but would anyone say the other guy currently at UGA is a better coach than Bennett?  Of course not, but their logic leads them there because all they care about or talk about is the NCAA tournament portion. Some delicious irony there IMO.

[Cheeks]

State school, no they will not pay a coach as much as you think, never has

The funding will come from Wasserman and others, same way Chip Kelly is being paid.

[Its DJOver]

Yes, but the greater point is if even a HOF coach can go out in the first round, why is it hard to understand the nature of the NCAA tournament?  Most of those guys have also coached LONGER than Bennett.  The other side of the argument, to hear some people here tell it Bennett is a horrible NCAA tournament coach while another guy those same guys love has a Final Four, but would anyone say the other guy currently at UGA is a better coach than Bennett?  Of course not, but their logic leads them there because all they care about or talk about is the NCAA tournament portion. Some delicious irony there IMO.

Like most things in life, there should be a balance.  Bennett is significantly better than TC, everyone should be acknowledging this.  But the point still remains that Bennett's postseason record is not up to the level that it should be based on his regular season record.  His regular season record gives him and INCREDIBLY long leash, but there is a point where it won't be enough.  5 top 2 seeds without a FF? 7? 10?  There is a point where the line will be drawn despite the regular season success. 

The same can be said about any P6 program in the country.  Wojo has had a great regular season and he has changed a lot of peoples mind because of it, and he deserves (and will get) a raise/extension.  But, if Markus, Sam, Sacar, and Ed all graduate without a second weekend appearance I will be disappointed and not convinced that Wojo can get the job done.  A conference championship, or conference tourney championship would lessen the blow, and give him a longer postseason leash, but it would still hurt.  Is it fair?  Probably not, but fans will always demand more, it's the nature of fandom.

[Herman Cain]

Uhh, gee, are any of you Scoopers old enough to remember another "high" rated team  who lost to a nobody?

March 1978 -- Indianapolis, IN. A certain team we love lost to an unheralded Miami of Ohio team in a crapfest where the defending national champion lost its poise.

Yes, I know they did not seed the tournament back then, but the MOH loss very much was the 1978 equivalent of a 16 beating a 1. You never know and as Virginia found out, you cannot take an opponent lightly in tournament play.

As to the bigger question of Wojo and UCLA, I pray it's not going to happen. Coach Wojo is building something here and if we lose yet another coach at the point where we have built ourselves to national recognition -- if not prominence -- then it may be Hiroshima. With Nagasaki for good measure.

What our program has lacked since Coach McGuire discovered television has been consistency. We can argue until the cows come home (which in Wisconsin is late in the day) but each time an MU coach gets to the point where we have some prominence, we lose him to someone else. I candidly think Coach Wojo is different and somehow he likes it here, the persistent Scoop criticism notwithstanding.

I think back to Coach McGuire and while I know it was a different era, something kept him at Marquette for a long time. When Father Raynor stepped up and refused to void Coach McGuire's contract, the Coach never had a temper tantrum, never screamed that he was treated unfairly and never openly thought about leaving when his contract expired. He was a New York guy who found peace, happiness and a National Championship in Milwaukee. Here's hoping Coach  Wojo does too.

Never forget being in the stands at Market Square in disbelief that fateful day. We were so well positioned to win a second title ....

[Cheeks]

Like most things in life, there should be a balance.  Bennett is significantly better than TC, everyone should be acknowledging this.  But the point still remains that Bennett's postseason record is not up to the level that it should be based on his regular season record.  His regular season record gives him and INCREDIBLY long leash, but there is a point where it won't be enough.  5 top 2 seeds without a FF? 7? 10?  There is a point where the line will be drawn despite the regular season success. 

The same can be said about any P6 program in the country.  Wojo has had a great regular season and he has changed a lot of peoples mind because of it, and he deserves (and will get) a raise/extension.  But, if Markus, Sam, Sacar, and Ed all graduate without a second weekend appearance I will be disappointed and not convinced that Wojo can get the job done.  A conference championship, or conference tourney championship would lessen the blow, and give him a longer postseason leash, but it would still hurt.  Is it fair?  Probably not, but fans will always demand more, it's the nature of fandom.

Some fans, yes.  I find it unhealthy and a lot of good coaches kicked to the curb as a result.  The results over the longer haul show the true capabilities of a coach who can teach, get them to improve, etc over 5 to 6 months, not 40 minutes in one game.  In my opinion if Bennett were to stay and continue with these results, an occasional Elite 8 and Sweet 16's, he would be just fine.  Duke and UNC wouldn't accept it.