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Author Topic: Man do I love the Hausers  (Read 26322 times)

JakeBarnes

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #100 on: January 18, 2019, 01:53:00 PM »
Purposely avoiding the HE/Joey discussion, I do think he will benefit from a summer in the weight room. But I'll bet it is a high priority item for Todd.

I agree. I think some of the sloppiness that can occur when he takes the ball inside might be mitigated by just getting stronger through the contact. Joey is still a hell of a player as is.
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #101 on: January 18, 2019, 04:28:46 PM »
Henry’s post defense was serviceable, but he was a turnstile in space.

As most guys his size are.

Yet.....I'm not even sure how accurate that is.

I went back and looked at his synergy numbers from that season. There were 44 different times that Henry's assignment tried to take him in isolation. In those 44 attempts, Henry only surrendered 22 points for a points per possession of 0.5. That 0.5 number was in the 89th percentile of all Division One players. That would seem to indicate that he was actually pretty good at defending in space...but of course guarding against isolation and guarding in space aren't necessarily the same thing.

Defending against isolation plays was actually the strongest point of Henry's individual defense. He was average against spot up shooters (47th percentile) and average against post ups (43rd percentile). Where he struggled was where our entire team struggled that season, against pick and roll play guarding both the roll man (34th percentile) and the ball handler (6th percentile).

Now an interesting note about his isolation defense. When he would get isoed and his assignment took a jump shot, he was actually awful (26th percentile). But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.

This is the hard thing about being a fan. We are very good at identifying problems with and good things about individual offense, team offense, and team defense. In my experience, fans (myself included) have trouble picking out those same things about individual defense. It is hard to pay attention to what each individual player is doing on defense because the reality is, if they are playing good defense their opponent won't even get a shot up so it doesn't seem memorable. We remember the big steals, blocks, and shot clock violations and we also remember when a player gets embarrassed or manhandled on the defensive end. We don't remember the fundamentally sound defense that forced an opponent to pass to someone else or shoot a contested a jumpshot.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 04:30:33 PM by TAMU Eagle »
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Nukem2

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #102 on: January 18, 2019, 04:43:51 PM »
Henry was a good rebounder on the defensive boards and was good defensively in the lane when he played center when Fischer was in foul trouble.  Otherwise, he reallly struggled on his heels and laterallly on defense when playing forward.  We all noted that on the MU boards during his one season. Loved Henry, but his D was rather lacking outside of those defensive boards.

Jockey

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #103 on: January 18, 2019, 06:54:29 PM »
As most guys his size are.

Yet.....I'm not even sure how accurate that is.

I went back and looked at his synergy numbers from that season. There were 44 different times that Henry's assignment tried to take him in isolation. In those 44 attempts, Henry only surrendered 22 points for a points per possession of 0.5. That 0.5 number was in the 89th percentile of all Division One players. That would seem to indicate that he was actually pretty good at defending in space...but of course guarding against isolation and guarding in space aren't necessarily the same thing.

Defending against isolation plays was actually the strongest point of Henry's individual defense. He was average against spot up shooters (47th percentile) and average against post ups (43rd percentile). Where he struggled was where our entire team struggled that season, against pick and roll play guarding both the roll man (34th percentile) and the ball handler (6th percentile).

Now an interesting note about his isolation defense. When he would get isoed and his assignment took a jump shot, he was actually awful (26th percentile). But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.

This is the hard thing about being a fan. We are very good at identifying problems with and good things about individual offense, team offense, and team defense. In my experience, fans (myself included) have trouble picking out those same things about individual defense. It is hard to pay attention to what each individual player is doing on defense because the reality is, if they are playing good defense their opponent won't even get a shot up so it doesn't seem memorable. We remember the big steals, blocks, and shot clock violations and we also remember when a player gets embarrassed or manhandled on the defensive end. We don't remember the fundamentally sound defense that forced an opponent to pass to someone else or shoot a contested a jumpshot.

This post is a good example of why we keep you on Scoop.

real chili 83

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #104 on: January 18, 2019, 07:12:13 PM »
My BIL (a Tennessee grad) calls Marquette "A couple of albinos and Sideshow Bob".

Does your BIL drool a lot ?

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #105 on: January 18, 2019, 07:21:37 PM »
Henry was a good rebounder on the defensive boards and was good defensively in the lane when he played center when Fischer was in foul trouble.  Otherwise, he reallly struggled on his heels and laterallly on defense when playing forward.  We all noted that on the MU boards during his one season. Loved Henry, but his D was rather lacking outside of those defensive boards.

Honestly, trust the eye test of scoopers as far as I can throw it...And since you can't throw theoretical objects...
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

brewcity77

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #106 on: January 18, 2019, 07:48:03 PM »
But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.

One of the things Henry got really good at was forcing his man wide when defending the drive. It wasn't always a strength, but as the season went on he used his length better and forced drivers to try to go around him, which didn't work well because his 7+ foot wingspan would force them into awkward angles.

Cheeks

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #107 on: January 18, 2019, 07:50:20 PM »
As most guys his size are.

Yet.....I'm not even sure how accurate that is.

I went back and looked at his synergy numbers from that season. There were 44 different times that Henry's assignment tried to take him in isolation. In those 44 attempts, Henry only surrendered 22 points for a points per possession of 0.5. That 0.5 number was in the 89th percentile of all Division One players. That would seem to indicate that he was actually pretty good at defending in space...but of course guarding against isolation and guarding in space aren't necessarily the same thing.

Defending against isolation plays was actually the strongest point of Henry's individual defense. He was average against spot up shooters (47th percentile) and average against post ups (43rd percentile). Where he struggled was where our entire team struggled that season, against pick and roll play guarding both the roll man (34th percentile) and the ball handler (6th percentile).

Now an interesting note about his isolation defense. When he would get isoed and his assignment took a jump shot, he was actually awful (26th percentile). But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.

This is the hard thing about being a fan. We are very good at identifying problems with and good things about individual offense, team offense, and team defense. In my experience, fans (myself included) have trouble picking out those same things about individual defense. It is hard to pay attention to what each individual player is doing on defense because the reality is, if they are playing good defense their opponent won't even get a shot up so it doesn't seem memorable. We remember the big steals, blocks, and shot clock violations and we also remember when a player gets embarrassed or manhandled on the defensive end. We don't remember the fundamentally sound defense that forced an opponent to pass to someone else or shoot a contested a jumpshot.

What is source of data out of curiosity?
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #108 on: January 18, 2019, 08:17:08 PM »
What is source of data out of curiosity?

Synergy
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Nukem2

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #109 on: January 18, 2019, 08:43:26 PM »
Honestly, trust the eye test of scoopers as far as I can throw it...And since you can't throw theoretical objects...
[/quote Henry was a decent defender as a center...at forward, not really.  Those theoreticals are really biased by rebounds, blocks and steals.  Chartouneys #s from the past don’t look so good now. 

brewcity77

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #110 on: January 18, 2019, 08:47:40 PM »
Those theoreticals are really biased by rebounds, blocks and steals.

I'm pretty sure that's not how Synergy works at all.

MU82

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #111 on: January 18, 2019, 09:34:20 PM »
As most guys his size are.

Yet.....I'm not even sure how accurate that is.

I went back and looked at his synergy numbers from that season. There were 44 different times that Henry's assignment tried to take him in isolation. In those 44 attempts, Henry only surrendered 22 points for a points per possession of 0.5. That 0.5 number was in the 89th percentile of all Division One players. That would seem to indicate that he was actually pretty good at defending in space...but of course guarding against isolation and guarding in space aren't necessarily the same thing.

Defending against isolation plays was actually the strongest point of Henry's individual defense. He was average against spot up shooters (47th percentile) and average against post ups (43rd percentile). Where he struggled was where our entire team struggled that season, against pick and roll play guarding both the roll man (34th percentile) and the ball handler (6th percentile).

Now an interesting note about his isolation defense. When he would get isoed and his assignment took a jump shot, he was actually awful (26th percentile). But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.

This is the hard thing about being a fan. We are very good at identifying problems with and good things about individual offense, team offense, and team defense. In my experience, fans (myself included) have trouble picking out those same things about individual defense. It is hard to pay attention to what each individual player is doing on defense because the reality is, if they are playing good defense their opponent won't even get a shot up so it doesn't seem memorable. We remember the big steals, blocks, and shot clock violations and we also remember when a player gets embarrassed or manhandled on the defensive end. We don't remember the fundamentally sound defense that forced an opponent to pass to someone else or shoot a contested a jumpshot.

This is incredible, TAMU. I honestly didn't even know that any of this data existed.

As for "what if Henry was on this team" ... he and Markus would have some interesting rock-paper-scissors contests to see who got the ball.
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TAMU Eagle

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #112 on: January 18, 2019, 09:53:21 PM »
Honestly, trust the eye test of scoopers as far as I can throw it...And since you can't throw theoretical objects...
[/quote Henry was a decent defender as a center...at forward, not really.  Those theoreticals are really biased by rebounds, blocks and steals.  Chartouneys #s from the past don’t look so good now.

I'm not sure what happened here.

If you are saying my numbers are biased by steals, blocks and rebounds, no they are not. Synergy does not look at blocks, steals, or rebounds. There are stats such as d-rating which are biased to blocks, steals, and rebounds. That's one of the reasons I don't put a lot of stock in d-rating when judging individual defense. I also think eye tests are biased by blocks, steals and rebounds.

I'm not sure what you are saying about Chartouny. His defense has been fantastic for us. Its his offense that is the problem and that was always a question with with him.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

Nukem2

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #113 on: January 18, 2019, 10:13:17 PM »
I'm not sure what happened here.

If you are saying my numbers are biased by steals, blocks and rebounds, no they are not. Synergy does not look at blocks, steals, or rebounds. There are stats such as d-rating which are biased to blocks, steals, and rebounds. That's one of the reasons I don't put a lot of stock in d-rating when judging individual defense. I also think eye tests are biased by blocks, steals and rebounds.

I'm not sure what you are saying about Chartouny. His defense has been fantastic for us. Its his offense that is the problem and that was always a question with with him.
I was not addressing Synergy.  But, big problem with Synergy is that it measures what happens, not why it happened.  Guys are out of position or make mistakes that result in others being “blamed”.   No system will ever measure that.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #114 on: January 18, 2019, 11:44:23 PM »
I was not addressing Synergy.  But, big problem with Synergy is that it measures what happens, not why it happened.  Guys are out of position or make mistakes that result in others being “blamed”.   No system will ever measure that.

This is true. But it goes both ways. There is just as much chance that other guys were out of position and Henry got "blamed" for other's mistakes. In fact, I know that happened a lot that season since our guards had very poor containment ability.

Services like synergy don't paint a perfect picture but over the course of a season, they can paint a pretty accurate one. In a single game, there is a small enough sample size that a few "flukes" (for lack of a better word) could drastically alter the accuracy of a tool like this. But over the course of an entire season? Not so much.

What's more likely? That with thousands of points of data, Henry got so many "flukes" with no regression to the mean, that it gave him the numbers of a very good defender when he was actually a very poor one? Or is it more likely that in a bad season, Scoopers' eye tests picked up on and remembered more bad moments than good moments, even if there were more good moments? It's not a bad thing, its just part of being a sports fan. We remember the very good, and we remember the bad. We don't remember the regular good.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper

wadesworld

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #115 on: January 20, 2019, 02:06:52 PM »
Winning plays at winning time.

Eldon

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #116 on: January 20, 2019, 03:05:03 PM »
AVERAGE(Sam, Joey) > AVERAGE(Henry, Wally)

Bocephys

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #117 on: January 20, 2019, 04:35:06 PM »
AVERAGE(Sam, Joey) > AVERAGE(Henry, Wally)

MIN, MAX, and MODE as well

MuMark

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #118 on: January 26, 2019, 04:10:16 PM »
Bump........could we just pin this thread?

Stretchdeltsig

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #119 on: January 26, 2019, 04:12:46 PM »
Sam and Joey would overwhelm the Ellenson brothers.

Archies Bat

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #120 on: January 27, 2019, 06:34:36 AM »
Nice write up from Dauster.

Also a nice discussion of the Big Ten mediocrity (that could probable apply to the BE also).

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/01/27/saturdays-things-to-know-the-big-12-rolls-kentuckys-back-justin-robinson-breaks-out/

MU82

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #121 on: February 09, 2019, 04:58:59 PM »
Still love the Hausers.

But that's two horrible games in a row for Joey, and 4 points and 3 turnovers combined from the Hausers against Nova -- and we still won.

If Markus had done anything close to that, the pitchforks and torches would have come out.

Hell, he had a bad turnover today and some Scoopers are willing to throw his 38 points into the toilet. Sometimes I wonder.
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Ellenson Family Reunion

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #122 on: February 09, 2019, 05:02:50 PM »
Still love the Hausers.

But that's two horrible games in a row for Joey, and 4 points and 3 turnovers combined from the Hausers against Nova -- and we still won.

If Markus had done anything close to that, the pitchforks and torches would have come out.

Hell, he had a bad turnover today and some Scoopers are willing to throw his 38 points into the toilet. Sometimes I wonder.

Co-sign!

Johnny B

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #123 on: February 09, 2019, 05:03:45 PM »
Yeah idk what the deal is. They both were abysmal this week. We need them to play well if we wanna make a run in March

willie warrior

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Re: Man do I love the Hausers
« Reply #124 on: February 09, 2019, 05:05:05 PM »
I agree. I think some of the sloppiness that can occur when he takes the ball inside might be mitigated by just getting stronger through the contact. Joey is still a hell of a player as is.
He has already been in the program. Has he not already been in the weight room the past year?