Georgetown game thread

[muguru]

I asked before but I'll ask again. Vegas, KenPom, other rankings sites all had Marquette as about a 3 point favorite in this game before Markus got hurt. So your assertion that Marquette should beat Georgetown on the road even without Markus (and you don't seem to think it should even be close) means that either:

A) Vegas, KenPom, all the people who do this professionally way overrate Georgetown

B) Vegas, KenPom, all the people who do this professionally way underrate Marquette

C) Having Markus Howard is not worth at least 3 points in a game

Which is it? I'm honestly not being snarky, I'm trying to figure out if you are saying that Marquette is way undervalued by the masses or if Markus Howard isn't as good as we think so losing him isn't that big of a blow.

They are way undervalued to be honest...and you know what?? Kenpom etc, are all very useful tools in their own right, but they are simply NUMBERS...what they don't do/use is the eye test, and the #'s do sometimes lie...anyone with any knowledge of college basketball, should have known that even without Markus, Marquette has more talent then Georgetown..and if you take away all the other factors/elements..talent should/will win out a vast majority of the time...that's why I always hesitate to look at numbers like that...they don't "see" the things my own eyes see.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

They are way undervalued to be honest...and you know what?? Kenpom etc, are all very useful tools in their own right, but they are simply NUMBERS...what they don't do/use is the eye test, and the #'s do sometimes lie...anyone with any knowledge of college basketball, should have known that even without Markus, Marquette has more talent then Georgetown..and if you take away all the other factors/elements..talent should/will win out a vast majority of the time...that's why I always hesitate to look at numbers like that...they don't "see" the things my own eyes see.

So how good exactly do you think Marquette is? Are they the best team in the nation? Top ten? Top 25?

[muguru]

So how good exactly do you think Marquette is? Are they the best team in the nation? Top ten? Top 25?

I have watched a TON of college basketball this year(I always do), and my eyes tell me that they are somewhere between the 10th and 15th best team in the country..with the potential to be better..and I have always thought and told ppl I know that the key to that is Sam..last night we saw Sam at his best, but you know what?? That wasn't anything that should have made anyone go "wow, where did that come from"?? Sam is that talented....But back to my point..there are many times over the last couple of years where I wish Sam would be more assertive and take over a game when markus is struggling. We see what happens when he does. He is so smooth, savvy, and basketball smart that he will almost always make the right play, take the right shot etc.

If Sam started to "take over games" more, like he did last night, even when Markus is rolling..the potential of this team is through the roof. It really is..there aren't many CBB teams that has/have the luxury of having two guys like Sam and Markus that can absolutely dominate a game. Imagine if, Markus who is averaging 26PPG, had Sam who was averaging say 17-18 PPG as well(which is totally realistic)??

[brewcity77]

I'm hoping that this team is putting some of their struggles behind them, but I will note that some of the same flaws that Lennys noted about Xavier last year before their premature NCAA exit also plague this team. This team is gutty and tough, but they also have shown an inability to put teams away. They play really well late in the game, but when the game gets away from them, sometimes you build too big of a deficit to make that comeback.

The team we saw against Kansas State and Buffalo gives you hope that they could go to the Final Four. The team we saw against Seton Hall and Creighton, despite the wins, gives me pause that we could be a first weekend upset casualty. The tourney is always a crapshoot and matchups coupled with hot hands goes a long way, but while we could get hot and knock off one of the top seeds, we could also let an underdog stick around too long and run out of miracle finishes.

[JakeBarnes]

I'm hoping that this team is putting some of their struggles behind them, but I will note that some of the same flaws that Lennys noted about Xavier last year before their premature NCAA exit also plague this team. This team is gutty and tough, but they also have shown an inability to put teams away. They play really well late in the game, but when the game gets away from them, sometimes you build too big of a deficit to make that comeback.

The team we saw against Kansas State and Buffalo gives you hope that they could go to the Final Four. The team we saw against Seton Hall and Creighton, despite the wins, gives me pause that we could be a first weekend upset casualty. The tourney is always a crapshoot and matchups coupled with hot hands goes a long way, but while we could get hot and knock off one of the top seeds, we could also let an underdog stick around too long and run out of miracle finishes.

I will hypothesize that this game will help with that. Instead of just looking for Markus to do something, the team will do more looking for their own shot. A lot of the games I had frustration with this year involved a lot of standing around and waiting for MH to do something rather than trying to create like Sam and Sacar (and a few instances of BB) did last night.

[BCHoopster]

I hope after this game Markus can realize it is not all about him. Sure he is a great shooter but there are times when he takes to many quick or bad shots.  What happens then is his teammates stand around and just watch him.  All these kids can score, time to just let the game flow to Markus and not just play Markus ball,
they will be better in the long run.  Get the ball inside to Theo more often, it will open the outside then.  If Sam can play as he did last night more often, the team could
win the Big East.  Hope to see more Bailey get more time on the court, his D was outstanding last night.   Did not think he could stay with Akino one on one but he
did and he blocked 3 or 4 shots of his last night, impressive.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I hope after this game Markus can realize it is not all about him. Sure he is a great shooter but there are times when he takes to many quick or bad shots.  What happens then is his teammates stand around and just watch him.  All these kids can score, time to just let the game flow to Markus and not just play Markus ball,
they will be better in the long run.  Get the ball inside to Theo more often, it will open the outside then.  If Sam can play as he did last night more often, the team could
win the Big East.  Hope to see more Bailey get more time on the court, his D was outstanding last night.   Did not think he could stay with Akino one on one but he
did and he blocked 3 or 4 shots of his last night, impressive.

Yes

[GGGG]

I'm hoping that this team is putting some of their struggles behind them, but I will note that some of the same flaws that Lennys noted about Xavier last year before their premature NCAA exit also plague this team. This team is gutty and tough, but they also have shown an inability to put teams away. They play really well late in the game, but when the game gets away from them, sometimes you build too big of a deficit to make that comeback.

The team we saw against Kansas State and Buffalo gives you hope that they could go to the Final Four. The team we saw against Seton Hall and Creighton, despite the wins, gives me pause that we could be a first weekend upset casualty. The tourney is always a crapshoot and matchups coupled with hot hands goes a long way, but while we could get hot and knock off one of the top seeds, we could also let an underdog stick around too long and run out of miracle finishes.

Yep.  Mentioned this to my wife after the game last night.  Marquette is the exact type of team that can end up a four seed and lose in the first round to a team like Georgia State. 

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Bottom line is we won two games that we were 99% sure to lose with seconds left yet won in overtime.
We also have won 2-3 that looked like very possible losses and we trailed late.
So we have definitely won a few we could have lost.  Five losses puts us middle of the pack with everyone else, and we could have had more, kudos to the kids for sticking with it, kudos to luck.  Im not complaining but to think we can hang with the big boys or not lose to a bottom of the pack BE team or a first round NCCA game is foolhardy.  We are not balanced enuff offensively and tend to turn the  ball over too much to be a really really good team.  We are a good team tho.

[muwarrior69]

So how good exactly do you think Marquette is? Are they the best team in the nation? Top ten? Top 25?

We are one of the best teams in the nation; in turnovers! If we can solve that we could be a pretty tough out come March.

[Its DJOver]

Bottom line is we won two games that we were 99% sure to lose with seconds left yet won in overtime.
We also have won 2-3 that looked like very possible losses and we trailed late.
So we have definitely won a few we could have lost.  Five losses puts us middle of the pack with everyone else, and we could have had more, kudos to the kids for sticking with it, kudos to luck.  Im not complaining but to think we can hang with the big boys or not lose to a bottom of the pack BE team or a first round NCCA game is foolhardy.  We are not balanced enuff offensively and tend to turn the  ball over too much to be a really really good team.  We are a good team tho.

We have 4 players averaging double digit scoring in conference.  That's a pretty good balance if you ask me.  Any one of those 4 have the potential to go off for a 20 point game, we also have 4 others that can put up a respectable 7 to 11 in any game.  We have more balance than we've had in quite a while, it just doesn't always seem that way because we have one player that can go off for 50+.

[muguru]

The one thing that was obvious to me last night without Markus, is how much better they were at NOT turning it over. Maybe too, this game was a precursor of sorts for Wojo..Why couldn't he now "springboard" off this game and run different sets during games with Sacar, or Joey or Sam out top as the primary ball handler?? Throw constant different looks at teams, let them figure out how to defend it.

[BCHoopster]

Yes, the coaches learned that Chartouny can not play and the other 3 players on the court can start the offense. Let's see how the coaches figure out what to do even with Markus on the court.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I thought joe was great at creighton, but his last two games have been simply terrible.  Last night the stage was set for him yet Wojo could not afford to play him.  I think his defense is exceptional and he could help the team in that area, however his offense has been so bad that its not worth his defense.  He completely stagnates the offense when he is in the game these last few and if that is not bad enuff has literally thrown the ball to the defense for run outs every 2-3 times down the court. 
After last night his opportunities may be becoming fewer and fewer if he canot get his confidence up.  Im sure they want to keep trying to give him chances to build that confidence, but half way thru the season how many more can they continue to give him and at what cost?

[Lighthouse 84]

I completely agree that JC was not good last night, and Wojo must have thought the same, giving him limited minutes when we lacked another true point.  But for those on this board who piss and moan about how horrible he's been all season and he's not a D-1 guard?How many of you voted him SOTG this year? Twice! 

As bad as he was last night, he obviously has some ability and has shown it this year.  Hopefully, he doesn't cost us a game but I still think we need him this year and he'll contribute to more wins.

[Cheeks]

I'm sorry...but it has to be asked...why are you putting the ball in Sacar's hands in that situation?? Just puzzling to say the least.

He got to the rim, put a good shot that I don't know how it didn't fall. He is our best creator.  I don't think it was that puzzling, he was getting to the basket all day.

[Cheeks]

Any questions boys?? In the end, talent wins out a majority of the time...always remember that.

Yes, but to say Howard out wasn't an excuse was....inexcusable.

[Jockey]

If Sam started to "take over games" more, like he did last night, even when Markus is rolling..the potential of this team is through the roof. It really is..there aren't many CBB teams that has/have the luxury of having two guys like Sam and Markus that can absolutely dominate a game. Imagine if, Markus who is averaging 26PPG, had Sam who was averaging say 17-18 PPG as well(which is totally realistic)??

If only Sam could have taken over the Creighton game and gotten the ball out of Howard's hands......

[tower912]

Well, that was bad coaching.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Well, that was bad coaching.

It is a damn shame that PersecutedRebelAlphaMan can't post about how, despite winning on the road without Markus, Wojo did it all wrong.