Johnnie Fan Ignorance

[JWags85]

Made my way to Carnesecca for the game tonight, my first time there. Wild that a Big East team plays there as it's a glorified HS gym. It's as rinky dink of a game day operation as you'll see, but it's a band box and gets LOUD.

That being said, grabbed pretty amazing seats in the 4th row across from the MU bench, presumably around season ticket holders. The chatter about Marquette I heard around me was hilarious.

Chartouney: "This guy wouldn't be the 3rd string point guard for us, he can't dribble." Then later "he can't dribble how does he have 11!" Honestly thought JC personally insulted this man's family as he mentioned how bad a dribbler he was almost as much as he cheered SJ 3s.

Howard: "gotta be the most overrated player in the county. Watch Ponds, that's a true talent. Howard probably scores 12 a game max against good teams"

Theo: "go at him, he's soft. Popcorn muscles, guy has no toughness, none!" Also called him a classless thug who tried to injury Ponds. The reaction to the scuffle in the building, you would have thought Theo uppercut him

Also heard that Marquette hadn't beat anyone good yet (rich coming from SJ's schedule), there wasn't a single athletic guy on MU's team, and my favorite...."you can tell Marquette is really undisciplined, they get up against a disciplined, right team like us and they fall apart".

I don't expect people to be well versed in the intricacies of the Marquette team, but we aren't some no name buy game. 5-6 diff seemingly avid CBB fans at the game we're spouting this drivel. The only accurate thing I heard all night was one of them yell a McEnroe impression after halftime that actually got him to look up and smirk on his way back to his seat.

[Mike Deane's Seat Belt]

He was at least on point about tooney.  The rest nah

[Herman Cain]

Made my way to Carnesecca for the game tonight, my first time there. Wild that a Big East team plays there as it's a glorified HS gym. It's as rinky dink of a game day operation as you'll see, but it's a band box and gets LOUD.

That being said, grabbed pretty amazing seats in the 4th row across from the MU bench, presumably around season ticket holders. The chatter about Marquette I heard around me was hilarious.

Chartouney: "This guy wouldn't be the 3rd string point guard for us, he can't dribble." Then later "he can't dribble how does he have 11!" Honestly thought JC personally insulted this man's family as he mentioned how bad a dribbler he was almost as much as he cheered SJ 3s.

Howard: "gotta be the most overrated player in the county. Watch Ponds, that's a true talent. Howard probably scores 12 a game max against good teams"

Theo: "go at him, he's soft. Popcorn muscles, guy has no toughness, none!" Also called him a classless thug who tried to injury Ponds. The reaction to the scuffle in the building, you would have thought Theo uppercut him

Also heard that Marquette hadn't beat anyone good yet (rich coming from SJ's schedule), there wasn't a single athletic guy on MU's team, and my favorite...."you can tell Marquette is really undisciplined, they get up against a disciplined, right team like us and they fall apart".

I don't expect people to be well versed in the intricacies of the Marquette team, but we aren't some no name buy game. 5-6 diff seemingly avid CBB fans at the game we're spouting this drivel. The only accurate thing I heard all night was one of them yell a McEnroe impression after halftime that actually got him to look up and smirk on his way back to his seat.

The typical Johnnie fan is the last vestige of the old time Queens mentality . That is why I get a kick out of following their team and its never ending foibles. McEnroe,  a Queens native,  was their Demi God.

[MUfan12]

This was their Super Bowl.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

He was at least on point about tooney.  The rest nah

One of the only players to get off the bus tonight.

[Its DJOver]

He was at least on point about tooney.  The rest nah

Seriously, what do you have against Chartouney?  His biggest problem has been lack of scoring, and excessive TO's. 31 min, 1 TO 11 points, about as good as you're going to get out of him.  Don't know why you have this grudge against him.  He was far from our biggest problem tonight. 

[MU82]

He was at least on point about tooney.  The rest nah

He probably was our best player in this game. Very solid on both ends. Glad we have him.

[Doo]

This was their Super Bowl.

Now that's funny but I'm guessing most missed the bucky sarcasm you meant it with.

[tower912]

New Yorkers making obnoxious and wrong statements about opponents?   The hell you say. 

[frozena pizza]

Based on this game alone I wouldn't really argue with a lot of this.  They smoked us and were the better team on both ends.

[🏀]

New Yorkers making obnoxious and wrong statements about opponents?   The hell you say. 

Stereotypes exist for a reason.

[JoeSmith1721]

Sounds like New York sports fans that haven't left Queens in over 20 years.

[MU82]

Based on this game alone I wouldn't really argue with a lot of this.  They smoked us and were the better team on both ends.

You agree that Markus is the most overrated player in the entire nation, that Chartouny wouldn't play a minute for St. John's, that Theo has "no toughness," and that we haven't beaten anybody good yet?

All righty then.

[shoothoops]

This happens in every market with every team. Yes including Marquette. There are good, bad, and indifferent fans everywhere. There are knowledgeable and not so knowledgeable fans in every market with every team. 

You sat near some less informed outspoken fans in a small loud gym where the opposing home team played well and the road team didn't.

I wouldn't really label all or most fans of St. John's or New York based off of your bad experience.

If Marquette lit it up and won going away, I am sure they would have sounded a bit different. Opportunity will knock Wednesday night February 5th.

[frozena pizza]

You agree that Markus is the most overrated player in the entire nation, that Chartouny wouldn't play a minute for St. John's, that Theo has "no toughness," and that we haven't beaten anybody good yet?

All righty then.

Not that I agree, but based on that game, what would you argue?  Markus had a really bad night and was completely shut down.  Theo had 0 FGs, 3 turnovers and nearly fouled out in 15 minutes.  Chartouny played pretty well but honestly how many minutes would he get ahead of Ponds, Heron, Simon and Figueroa if he were on St. John's?  We took our lumps, learn from it and move on.

[MU82]

Not that I agree, but based on that game, what would you argue?  Markus had a really bad night and was completely shut down.  Theo had 0 FGs, 3 turnovers and nearly fouled out in 15 minutes.  Chartouny played pretty well but honestly how many minutes would he get ahead of Ponds, Heron, Simon and Figueroa if he were on St. John's?  We took our lumps, learn from it and move on.

I understand, but I think the point of the thread was that the obnoxious Johnnies fan was ignorant about other BEast basketball programs, including Marquette.

Which, as others have pointed out, doesn't make him unusual.

Ponds didn't have a good game against Seton Hall, so it would have been like a Hall fan watching only that game and knowing nothing about St. John's concluding that Ponds isn't very good. That would have been wrong, too, even though I understand how a tunnel-vision fan might conclude it.

[StillAWarrior]

Not that I agree, but based on that game, what would you argue?  Markus had a really bad night and was completely shut down.  Theo had 0 FGs, 3 turnovers and nearly fouled out in 15 minutes.  Chartouny played pretty well but honestly how many minutes would he get ahead of Ponds, Heron, Simon and Figueroa if he were on St. John's?  We took our lumps, learn from it and move on.

I think that's the point -- any opinion that is solely "based on that game" is, by definition, ignorant.

[MU82]

I think that's the point -- any opinion that is solely "based on that game" is, by definition, ignorant.

Exactly.

I mean, based on his first few Super Bowls, John Elway was one of the worst QBs ever.

[Cheeks]

Exactly.

I mean, based on his first few Super Bowls, John Elway was one of the worst QBs ever.

Except he got to the Super Bowl, which by definition would mean he couldn't be One of the worst QBs ever.

I think there are better comps.

[StillAWarrior]

Except he got to the Super Bowl, which by definition would mean he couldn't be One of the worst QBs ever.

I think there are better comps.

Again, that's the point.  Basing an opinion on an extremely limited snapshot (e.g., the SJU game and/or a couple of Super Bowls) without considering any other data or context tends to lead to ignorant opinions.

[buckchuckler]

Made my way to Carnesecca for the game tonight, my first time there. Wild that a Big East team plays there as it's a glorified HS gym. It's as rinky dink of a game day operation as you'll see, but it's a band box and gets LOUD.

That being said, grabbed pretty amazing seats in the 4th row across from the MU bench, presumably around season ticket holders. The chatter about Marquette I heard around me was hilarious.

Chartouney: "This guy wouldn't be the 3rd string point guard for us, he can't dribble." Then later "he can't dribble how does he have 11!" Honestly thought JC personally insulted this man's family as he mentioned how bad a dribbler he was almost as much as he cheered SJ 3s.

Howard: "gotta be the most overrated player in the county. Watch Ponds, that's a true talent. Howard probably scores 12 a game max against good teams"

Theo: "go at him, he's soft. Popcorn muscles, guy has no toughness, none!" Also called him a classless thug who tried to injury Ponds. The reaction to the scuffle in the building, you would have thought Theo uppercut him

Also heard that Marquette hadn't beat anyone good yet (rich coming from SJ's schedule), there wasn't a single athletic guy on MU's team, and my favorite...."you can tell Marquette is really undisciplined, they get up against a disciplined, right team like us and they fall apart".

I don't expect people to be well versed in the intricacies of the Marquette team, but we aren't some no name buy game. 5-6 diff seemingly avid CBB fans at the game we're spouting this drivel. The only accurate thing I heard all night was one of them yell a McEnroe impression after halftime that actually got him to look up and smirk on his way back to his seat.

Isn't this basically the same stuff that gets said here pretty regularly?

[MU82]

Again, that's the point.  Basing an opinion on an extremely limited snapshot (e.g., the SJU game and/or a couple of Super Bowls) without considering any other data or context tends to lead to ignorant opinions.

Thank you.

[JWags85]

This happens in every market with every team. Yes including Marquette. There are good, bad, and indifferent fans everywhere. There are knowledgeable and not so knowledgeable fans in every market with every team. 

You sat near some less informed outspoken fans in a small loud gym where the opposing home team played well and the road team didn't.

I wouldn't really label all or most fans of St. John's or New York based off of your bad experience.

If Marquette lit it up and won going away, I am sure they would have sounded a bit different. Opportunity will knock Wednesday night February 5th.

I understand, but I think the point of the thread was that the obnoxious Johnnies fan was ignorant about other BEast basketball programs, including Marquette.

Which, as others have pointed out, doesn't make him unusual.

Ponds didn't have a good game against Seton Hall, so it would have been like a Hall fan watching only that game and knowing nothing about St. John's concluding that Ponds isn't very good. That would have been wrong, too, even though I understand how a tunnel-vision fan might conclude it.

FWIW, the comments about Howard and Marquette started from the opening tip.  The gorgeous behind the back dribble to escape from a defender into a step back 3 he hit was called "a complete prayer".  Comments about Theo and Tooney are whatever, but Howard is on preseason AA watch lists, BE first team lists, theyve seen him play SJ multiple times already, hes a known commodity, not some flash in the pan.  To say all that in the first half while the teams were neck and neck is what made it absurd.  I totally get crapping on Marquette during the second half debacle.

And no, its not an indictment of ALL SJ fans, but I was in the midst of their core fans, not in the rafters with casual fans who grabbed a ticket cause a ranked team was in town, so I found it amusing.  Dude likely would say that same things about players on Xavier, Butler, and Creighton.

[skianth16]

Again, that's the point.  Basing an opinion on an extremely limited snapshot (e.g., the SJU game and/or a couple of Super Bowls) without considering any other data or context tends to lead to ignorant opinions.

Ironically, attending one SJU game is a strong enough data point to confirm Jonnies fans' ignorance, yet many are willing to agree that Johnnie fans are ignorant because they're over-weighting a single game when evaluating MU. Hmmm.....

It's all super subjective. No one is watching every game played, and very few fans track conference opponents game in and game out. If the SJU fans saw a couple of our nationally televised games like KU, and UW and then watched the SJU game, they would feel pretty confident in saying Markus is overrated.

I'm a firm believer that we tend to find what we're looking for. So if a fan wants to think that Theo is soft, they'll be able to point to enough specific instances to "prove" this. If they think Joe C is weak with the ball, they'll have tape for that too. Same thing goes for players or teams being over-rated. It's true in many aspects of life but sports especially.

[brewcity77]

To be fair, it's definitely NOT one game against St John's. He missed the home game last year, but now in 4 appearances, these are Markus' stats against SJU:

9.5 ppg
3.0 rpg
2.3 apg
3.0 tpg
16.0% 2PFG (4/25)
34.8% 3PFG (8/23)
33.3% eFG

He's never posted a single game over 100 ORtg against SJU. We are 1-3 against them when Markus plays and the only win came in a 3 point/3 turnover performance. If the only MU games they watch are against St John's, then calling him overrated isn't a stretch, it's actually pretty darn accurate.