Conference championships are won on the road.

[GGGG]

I watched those two shots and contemplated why, in the metric used by TAMU, Cain is the worst defender on the team.  And I experienced clarity.

Right.  And Markus had two fouls and Wojo was going with his length over Bailey's inexperience, but in the end it didn't work.  I think we really could have used Greg last night, and in that situation in particular.

Someone said it earlier, but for all the depth we supposedly have, this is basically a seven-man team with the occasional eighth guy soaking up spot minutes. This is why you keep adding talent and letting it sort out.

[tower912]

I thought about Greg Elliott, too.  I don't think his presence would have meant a win.  I think his absence affected Wojo's defensive options and ability to match personnel.  SJU was just better last night. 

[MU82]

Whatever...why are you and so many others always so "no big deal" after losses?? You might lead the parade in that area to be honest. It honestly makes me sick to see so many "so called fans" here after every single loss, just blowing it off like it's no big deal and "on to the next one". Where is the passion?? I guess most just aren't all that competitive, which is fine, I'm just not that way.

I can't speak for VBMG, but here's where I'm coming from ...

When I'm watching a game, I'm plenty annoyed when we struggle. I talk to the TV, occasionally yell at the TV, sometimes my poor dog has to leave the room because she can't take me yelling at the TV. When we're doing well, I stand up and lift both arms for 3-pointers, clap and cheer.

But when the game ends and we leave sports-land for real-life-land, I am able to realize what a great life I have and that as much as I love Marquette basketball game, it's just a game.

I want to win. I want to go to the NCAA tourney and celebrate a run to the Final Four. I do not like to lose. I am plenty "competitive." But whether a group of 18-22 year olds win or lose basketball games simply doesn't consume me. I have a life outside of Marquette hoops.

Plus, complaining and whining and ripping and exaggerating how bad we are by saying we "suck" ... it doesn't change anything, and it just makes me feel worse.

And finally, I really do think we have a good team and are well on our way to having a good season.

Plenty of optimistic Scoopers picked us to go 10-3 in the NC; we went 11-2. Plenty of the same folks predicted we'd lose on the road to a good St. John's team; we did. I'm just not seeing reason to lose my $hit about this team.

Look at just about every outstanding season Marquette has had, be it 1976-77, 2002-03, Buzz's Elite Eight season, any of 'em, and we had plenty of "I can't believe we played that poorly" situations. Indeed, so far, this team has had fewer of those than many past very good Marquette teams have.

Look at the college basketball landscape. We have an entire thread dedicated to good teams losing to bad ones. We have not done that. We have lost two road games to good teams and a neutral-court game to one of the best teams in the country.

We have an entertaining team filled with kids who seem to be a credit to the university. We have one of the best scorers in the country. We have played quite well most games. We are ranked.

I just don't see the point in panicking and exaggerating and flipping out about a good 11-3 team that has had a couple of bad games.

And I can only shake my head that those who do panic and flip out thinking it's a sign that somehow they are "better" fans than those of us who are more pragmatic and calm.

[Floorslapper]

What annoyed me by those Ponds' three point shots at the end of the half was that Cain did not get up into him, but just stuck up his arms.  I don't know if that is what he was told to do, but I just think you have to run the guy off the line at that point.  Those shots turned what could have been a 2 to 3 point game at half, to an 8 point game.

Cain's defense was completely fine on those possessions.  He was up into him.  Hand up on the shot.  Ponds went Markus mode.  Was in the zone.  When that is the case the O always beats good D.  Cain gets up any closer to him he fouls him, or Ponds blows by him off the dribble (as happened to Bailey later in the game.)  Nobody was shutting Ponds down last night.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Whatever...why are you and so many others always so "no big deal" after losses?? You might lead the parade in that area to be honest. It honestly makes me sick to see so many "so called fans" here after every single loss, just blowing it off like it's no big deal and "on to the next one". Where is the passion?? I guess most just aren't all that competitive, which is fine, I'm just not that way.

Again, where are you when the team wins?  Conspicuously absent. 

What you are displaying is not passion. 

I'm not going to freak out about a poorly played game on the road against a solid team because, well, that would be stupid. 

[BM1090]

Cain's defense was completely fine on those possessions.  He was up into him.  Hand up on the shot.  Ponds went Markus mode.  Was in the zone.  When that is the case the O always beats good D.  Cain gets up any closer to him he fouls him, or Ponds blows by him off the dribble (as happened to Bailey later in the game.)  Nobody was shutting Ponds down last night.

I wouldn't say it was completely fine on the 2nd one but I have no real issue with what Cain did there. A 35% 3P shooter was hitting NBA 3s. He's a good player, it happens. Only other option was to get up into him more and like you said he probably blows by him and gets an open look for another shooter when help comes. Is that the better option? I don't know. Sometimes great players make tough shots.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Whatever...why are you and so many others always so "no big deal" after losses?? You might lead the parade in that area to be honest. It honestly makes me sick to see so many "so called fans" here after every single loss, just blowing it off like it's no big deal and "on to the next one".

Perhaps because the results of teenagers playing a game really is no big deal.  Certainly nothing to let ruin your mental health or relationships.

Where is the passion?? I guess most just aren't all that competitive, which is fine, I'm just not that way.

How can "you" be "competitive" when you have literally zero effect on the outcome?  You aren't the one playing, and unless you are part of the coaching staff or administration nothing you do has any effect whatsoever.  YOU aren't COMPETING for anything.

[mu03eng]

What annoyed me by those Ponds' three point shots at the end of the half was that Cain did not get up into him, but just stuck up his arms.  I don't know if that is what he was told to do, but I just think you have to run the guy off the line at that point.  Those shots turned what could have been a 2 to 3 point game at half, to an 8 point game.

Defense was fine on those two, you get up in his grill and he blows right by for easy buckets or worse and 1s when the help comes late. Much like other teams with Howard, if Ponds is gonna jack 3s 2 feet behind the NBA 3 point line with a hand near his face and make them there isn't much you can do.

[Cheeks]

Whatever...why are you and so many others always so "no big deal" after losses?? You might lead the parade in that area to be honest. It honestly makes me sick to see so many "so called fans" here after every single loss, just blowing it off like it's no big deal and "on to the next one". Where is the passion?? I guess most just aren't all that competitive, which is fine, I'm just not that way.

Years ago when we blew a huge lead and lost a game we should have won I blew up on our blog and here, called us choking dogs, said we peed down our leg which I borrowed from Buzz.  After reflection, I apologized.  Was I a passionate fan for erupting like I did?  Sounds like you would say yes.

My passion hasn't changed, how I deal with it has.  Doesn't make me any less of a fan.....Basketball especially with the kind of game it is depends on whether shots are falling.  If they aren't, better teams lose all the time to lesser teams.  That's the way it goes.  I also don't think putting my emotional well being in a danger zone is productive, but I still want to win and cheer wildly for that outcome.

[GGGG]

Cain's defense was completely fine on those possessions.  He was up into him.  Hand up on the shot.  Ponds went Markus mode.  Was in the zone.  When that is the case the O always beats good D.  Cain gets up any closer to him he fouls him, or Ponds blows by him off the dribble (as happened to Bailey later in the game.)  Nobody was shutting Ponds down last night.

Defense was fine on those two, you get up in his grill and he blows right by for easy buckets or worse and 1s when the help comes late. Much like other teams with Howard, if Ponds is gonna jack 3s 2 feet behind the NBA 3 point line with a hand near his face and make them there isn't much you can do.

As I said, maybe that's what Wojo wants him to do.  I would rather chase a hot shooter off the line and take my chances.

[MUfan12]

As I said, maybe that's what Wojo wants him to do.  I would rather chase a hot shooter off the line and take my chances.

Yup. Try to funnel the driver into help and take your chances. That's what they did 2H against Buffalo with good success.

[tower912]

Getting into a 'who is a bigger fan' debate is unproductive.    Try to find some balance in your life.   

[Cheeks]

My thoughts after tonight:


- There was one guy politely complaining about Markus trying to do too much after the Buffalo win when his first half was awful, and got roasted by other posters.  I understood where he was coming from.  Yes, he can go into NBA Jam mode at any point, but when he doesn't have it, he does NOT do a good job of finding other ways to contribute, get other people shots, etc.  I think he needs to grow the most in this area.  Ponds scores almost as much as him but also leads the conference in assists.  Markus seems so one-dimensional.  It's an amazing dimension when he's on, but if we are literally going to win or lose as Markus goes, then we will not go far in the BE tournament or the NCAA tournament, because against good competition, he's just not going to be able to single-handily carry us for the multiple wins in a row required to win a tournament on a neutral floor.

Yup, that would be me. 

A few things,

1) thank you
2) you will now be accused of being me and creating an account to respond to yourself...get the tinfoil out
3) it's not what is said here, but who says the what. (People sometimes don't care here about the substance, they only care who wrote it so the knives come out)
4) Markus has to recognize when he doesn't have it he can be a great asset still as a decoy, a distributor, etc.  He has to make his defenders still work their tail off because of his threat.  My worry then, my worry now, and moving forward is he will try to shoot his way out of it....in some cases it has worked...but it tends to speed up his processing, leads to wild shots, breaks down flow, too.
5) Markus is a great player, I enjoy watching him. Wonderful attitude, grounded.  Hopefully one of those games, but every Big East opponent will be going after him.

Hope you don't get too roasted.....Happy New Year

[tower912]

Markus did not force many shots last night.   And he has earned the right to shoot his way hot.   

[Cheeks]

Markus did not force many shots last night.   And he has earned the right to shoot his way hot.

Agree, but the ones he did force were really bad.  Len Elmore was trying to bite his tongue and be nice about it.

[mu03eng]

Yup. Try to funnel the driver into help and take your chances. That's what they did 2H against Buffalo with good success.

Yeah but Buffalo doesn't play 5 out. Take a look at those two specific plays, there was no one near the paint so the help has to come from far away and from someone that is also a good 3 point shooter. In terms of priority of shots I'm willing to give up it goes:

Lightly contested long distance 3 > late contest on a driving 2(possible and 1) > corner 3 on the kick

[Floorslapper]

As I said, maybe that's what Wojo wants him to do.  I would rather chase a hot shooter off the line and take my chances.

Usually "chasing a guy off the line" is the result of ball reversal and forcing the D into rotation.  Cain was iso'd one on one with Ponds 22' from the bucket.  Cain barely gave him any space as it was.

For those who want to point to those two possessions as proof positive of Cain being a poor defender, well, that's some pretty shoddy analysis.  Ponds was en fuego and hit two bombs with Cain virtually as close and contesting as much as you can without fouling.

His D on those two possessions was virtually perfect.

[GGGG]

Usually "chasing a guy off the line" is the result of ball reversal and forcing the D into rotation.  Cain was iso'd one on one with Ponds 22' from the bucket.  Cain barely gave him any space as it was.

For those who want to point to those two possessions as proof positive of Cain being a poor defender, well, that's some pretty shoddy analysis.  Ponds was en fuego and hit two bombs with Cain virtually as close and contesting as much as you can without fouling.

His D on those two possessions was virtually perfect.

I'm not suggesting that it was an example of Cain being a poor defender.  There have been a number of other examples of that.

[tower912]

Usually "chasing a guy off the line" is the result of ball reversal and forcing the D into rotation.  Cain was iso'd one on one with Ponds 22' from the bucket.  Cain barely gave him any space as it was.

For those who want to point to those two possessions as proof positive of Cain being a poor defender, well, that's some pretty shoddy analysis.  Ponds was en fuego and hit two bombs with Cain virtually as close and contesting as much as you can without fouling.

His D on those two possessions was virtually perfect.

Floorslapper, you are correct that those two possessions do not make Cain a poor defender.    There are other examples of that.   I did not say what I was thinking clearly, so shame on me.   Not for the first time this year, Cain was matched on a good offensive player, was in 'position A' defensively, and gave up a contested 3.    I forget which game, but he got bumped by the rolling screener, did a fly-by on a shooter while pulling his arms back to avoid contact, missed the shooter by about an inch, and gave up a made 3.     He has played some poor defense but also had the fate of having opponents make contested 3's while he is playing good defense.     Luck doesn't show up in stats, but he is also having some bad luck. 

The Ponds' shots at the end of the half were examples of being the guy guarding a hot shooter.   Ponds was 23 feet out and frozen.  Cain was in the appropriate position to take away the drive to the left as well as contest the shot.    Ponds, after a couple of second delay, rises and shoots with Cain getting his hand up.    They went, the momentum went SJU's way, and it was the beginning of the end..    But Cain really did nothing wrong.    But, on the stats, it looks like he is a poor defender, as the guy he is guarding has a high PPP.   

Similar to the starting pitcher who pitches well but gets no run support and therefore has a terrible W/L record.     I don't think Cain is as bad a defender as his stats make it appear.    I think he has made some mistakes and needs to be stronger, but I think he has had the fate of guarding hot shooters. 

[Cheeks]

Wojo I am not sure agrees.  In his comments post game he said when Ponds starts playing with ball, he is going to shoot and our guys forgot that in the scouting report.


He had specificity on that and it seemed that he was irked that Ponds was going to shoot, not drive, because he was tipping his hand with what he does playing around with the ball.

[tower912]

Good find on the Wojo quote regarding Ponds.    So, apparently, Cain did not play to the scout.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Yup, that would be me. 

A few things,

1) thank you
2) you will now be accused of being me and creating an account to respond to yourself...get the tinfoil out
3) it's not what is said here, but who says the what. (People sometimes don't care here about the substance, they only care who wrote it so the knives come out)
4) Markus has to recognize when he doesn't have it he can be a great asset still as a decoy, a distributor, etc.  He has to make his defenders still work their tail off because of his threat.  My worry then, my worry now, and moving forward is he will try to shoot his way out of it....in some cases it has worked...but it tends to speed up his processing, leads to wild shots, breaks down flow, too.
5) Markus is a great player, I enjoy watching him. Wonderful attitude, grounded.  Hopefully one of those games, but every Big East opponent will be going after him.

Hope you don't get too roasted.....Happy New Year

In regards to point number 4, Markus "didn't have it" in the first half against Buffalo.  We all know what happened next.

Against Kansas, Wisconsin,  and St. John's he had off nights.

Yes, Markus is a shot hunter.  Sometimes he gets hot, sometimes he's ice cold.  You take the good with the bad.

This team is missing a couple guards that can slash, score, dish, and shoot.  Hopefully McEwen and Elliott add that element next year.

[Floorslapper]

Wojo I am not sure agrees.  In his comments post game he said when Ponds starts playing with ball, he is going to shoot and our guys forgot that in the scouting report.


He had specificity on that and it seemed that he was irked that Ponds was going to shoot, not drive, because he was tipping his hand with what he does playing around with the ball.

Can you link the presser/quotes?  Ponds broke us down off the dribble and got to the rack about 4 times prior to launching the bombs against Cain too.  He was effective going to the rack, so that strategy wasn't exactly effective.

3 of 4 of Ponds' first FG were made layups within the first 4 minutes of the game.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/playbyplay?gameId=401083254

I'm not criticizing Wojo here.  We got beat by a talented player who went off, just like Markus beat Buffalo, K-State, and Providence last season.  Great coaching cannot beat great offensive talent/output.

The delta between Ponds and Markus was as stark as it possibly could have been last night, and as a result the blowout loss shouldn't come as a surprise.  It happens.

[GGGG]

In regards to point number 4, Markus "didn't have it" in the first half against Buffalo.  We all know what happened next.

Against Kansas, Wisconsin,  and St. John's he had off nights.

Yes, Markus is a shot hunter.  Sometimes he gets hot, sometimes he's ice cold.  You take the good with the bad.

This team is missing a couple guards that can slash, score, dish, and shoot.  Hopefully McEwen and Elliott add that element next year.

Not only that, but Howard is fifth in the conference in assist percentage.  So let's not write him off as a black hole.

[MU82]

Not only that, but Howard is fifth in the conference in assist percentage.  So let's not write him off as a black hole.

Markus is not a "black hole," but he also is not a create-for-others PG. I love having him on the Warriors, but he simply does not see the court the way good PGs do, IMHO.

Once he starts taking the ball into the lane, he almost always is going to shoot. He rarely looks for open teammates.

Fortunately, he is usually a very good finisher who, at the very least, draws fouls. He didn't finish or draw fouls last night. It happens.

He'll get a few assists, but he's not really a PG, not in the way most basketball observers think of PGs.