Big East Conference Results/ NCAA/NIT/CBI

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Big East Tournament Seeding Tiebreakers:

1. Head to Head (MU/NOVA 1-1) TIED
2. Record against team or group of tied teams occupying the highest position in the standings. If an advantage is not determined, proceed to the next team or group of tied teams in the standings for comparison. Continue down through the standings until one team gains an advantage. If J5's projections play out:
2a. MU/NOVA 3-1 against CU/X TIED
2b. MU/NOVA 2-2 against GTWN/SJU TIED
2c. MU/NOVA 4-0 against PROV/BUT/DEP/HALL TIED
3. Conference road record (MU 6-2, NOVA 5-4) MU WINS TIEBREAKER

[MUDPT]

Looking at the scenarios, besides our games, the X St. John's game next important for the 1 seed.  X at 9-9 keeps them in the third and gives us the tiebreaker at 9-9.  St. John's win moves them to 9-9 with Creighton, making MU 1-3 against those teams.

[muguru]

It's just crazy that with 8 BE games remaining, not a single seed has been determined yet.

[copious1218]

Big East Tournament Seeding Tiebreakers:

1. Head to Head (MU/NOVA 1-1) TIED
2. Record against team or group of tied teams occupying the highest position in the standings. If an advantage is not determined, proceed to the next team or group of tied teams in the standings for comparison. Continue down through the standings until one team gains an advantage. If J5's projections play out:
2a. MU/NOVA 3-1 against CU/X TIED
2b. MU/NOVA 2-2 against GTWN/SJU TIED
2c. MU/NOVA 4-0 against PROV/BUT/DEP/HALL TIED
3. Conference road record (MU 6-2, NOVA 5-4) MU WINS TIEBREAKER

I missed the Georgetown/STJ tie. thanks

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

JJJ, this is great stuff thanks..But I'm curious...I'm sure you are correct, but IF this scenario unfolds, where Creighton and X are tied for 3rd..Creighton gets the third seed because of the win over MU...so..does that then make Creighton the 3rd place team for TIEBREAKER purposes only?? I know the tie breaker says "the team or group of teams that occupy the highest spot in the standings", so I'm assuming that since TECHNICALLY Xavier and Creighton both tie for third place, that's why MU wins the road record tiebreaker, rather then for seeding purposes only, using Creighton as the "third place team", since they win the tiebreaker with X??

Presumably, MU then also wins a tiebreaker if the three teams tied at 9-9 are X, GT and Creighton correct?? MU has more wins over that group then Nova would.

It is record against the next highest seeded team.  Since the seeding goes from 1-10, it would be record against the "mini-conference" tied for 3rd place.  So if 2 or more teams are tied for 3rd place, it would be MU and Nova's record against those particular teams.

I admittedly may be misremembering tiebreaker rules, but I thought after the 3-1 tie in the miniconference between MU and Nova that it keeps moving down the standings (I don't think it goes to road games unless the teams are tied all the way through the standings).  In this scenario it would move down to STJ and Nova would get the 1 seed.  Am I wrong? 

Looks like TAMU has addressed since this question was posed, but it goes from H2H, to record against next highest seeded team all the way down the standings, and then to conference road record.

[GooooMarquette]

It's just crazy that with 8 BE games remaining, not a single seed has been determined yet.

It's also pretty amazing that 3rd through 10th place are currently separated by only 2 games. The closest anything is to being settled is that MU and Nova both know they'll be 1 or 2.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Providence ends the 2nd half on a 25-9 run to force overtime at Creighton. Game on CBSSN.

[Billy Hoyle]

Providence ends the 2nd half on a 25-9 run to force overtime at Creighton. Game on CBSSN.

Time to fire McDermott, right?

[Mr. Nielsen]

DePaul puts 101 points on Georgetown.

[Herman Cain]

McDermott wins two this year against his buddy Cooley.

Leitao will get a few votes for a Big East coach of the year . DePaul now guaranteed at least a .500 season overall.

[muguru]

It doesn't appear that the tiebreakers are going to go MU's way now...first of all I think it's moot, you know after an emotional win like tonight, there is NO WAY Hall beats Nova Saturday...this was their Super Bowl. Anyway, for giggles, let's say Hall does win..you have to assume Creighton wins, and let's say Xavier beats SJU. That means : Creighton, Hall and Xavier are all 9-9. In this scenario, both MU and Nova would have the same record against that group of teams...that means you go to the next group which would be..Georgetown, SJU and possibly Butler, but that is irrelevant as both MU and Nova swept Butler..That would also be tied as Nova and MU both have two losses in that "group. So actually unless I'm missing something(which is entirely possible I am), then I guess MU would actually win the tiebreaker due to road record. If things fall just right..MU's BEST case scenario(and the league office's for not having to work down so many tiebreakers...LOL) is if somehow, DePaul beats Creighton, Hall beats Nova, and Xavier beats SJU. Then Hall and Xavier both tie for 3rd at 9-9 and MU actually wins that tiebreaker. Guess we see how it plays out Saturday.

[muguru]

McDermott wins two this year against his buddy Cooley.

Leitao will get a few votes for a Big East coach of the year . DePaul now guaranteed at least a .500 season.

Overall yes, but not in the BE.

[Herman Cain]

Overall yes, but not in the BE.

Clarification noted and amended.

[BM1090]

The tiebreakers do not matter. If we tie Nova, we are co big east champs. Tiebreakers are for one seed only which isn't all that important.

I don't expect Nova to lose Saturday, though.

[muguru]

The tiebreakers do not matter. If we tie Nova, we are co big east champs. Tiebreakers are for one seed only which isn't all that important.

I don't expect Nova to lose Saturday, though.

I know what they are for..and I know for the most part they are irrelevant..and I agree with you..you just know Hall is going to have a massive let down Sat

[BM1090]

I know what they are for..and I know for the most part they are irrelevant..and I agree with you..you just know Hall is going to have a massive let down Sat

I don't disagree that Hall is going to lose. I would guess they do too.

But on the other hand, they have momentum and a win locks up a bid. I'd love them to beat Nova but in reality I just want MU to win and the other results can fall as they may. This team needs something good to happen in the worst way.

[DoctorV]

I know what they are for..and I know for the most part they are irrelevant..and I agree with you..you just know Hall is going to have a massive let down Sat

Nah don't expect a letdown. Expect a close game but I think nova shows their championship moxie and pulls it off, giving MUs game less luster.

SH needed one win in last two and one in BET. Sat win will likely punch their ticket but even if they don't get it they should get in if they win their first game in conf tourney, which is no gimme

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Nah don't expect a letdown. Expect a close game but I think nova shows their championship moxie and pulls it off, giving MUs game less luster.

SH needed one win in last two and one in BET. Sat win will likely punch their ticket but even if they don't get it they should get in if they win their first game in conf tourney, which is no gimme

Pretty sure Hall is in regardless.  Their wins are a clear step above the rest of the bubble.

[drewm88]

It doesn't appear that the tiebreakers are going to go MU's way now...

... then I guess MU would actually win the tiebreaker

... MU actually wins that tiebreaker. Guess we see how it plays out Saturday.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Final update before the end of the regular season. 

Current Standings (with current tie breakers):

Villanova 13-4
Marquette 12-5
Seton Hall 8-9 (5-3 in 3rd place mini conf)
St. Johns 8-9 (4-3 in 3rd place mini conf; wins tie breaker w MU sweep; both SJU and X split with Nova)
Xavier 8-9 (4-3 in 3rd place mini conf)
Georgetown 8-9 (3-5 in 3rd place mini conf; swept Creighton)
Creighton 8-9 (3-5 place in mini conf)
Butler 7-10 (swept Depaul)
Depaul 7-10
Providence 6-11

Projected Standings with expected results of remaining schedule via TRANK:

1. Nova 14-4
[@SHU (W)]

2. Marquette 13-5
[vs. Gtown (W)]

3. Xavier 9-9 (Xavier wins tie breaker with W over Nova)
[vs. SJU (W)]

4. Creighton 9-9
[vs. Depaul (W)

5. SJU 8-10 (All teams 2-2 in 5th place mini conf; SJU 1-1 against Nova; 2-0 against MU)
[@ X (L)]

6. Georgetown 8-10 (2-2 in 5th place mini conf; Gtown 1-1 vs Nova; 0-2 against MU)
[@MU (L)]

7. Seton Hall 8-10 (2-2 in 5th place mini conf; Hall 0-2 against Nova)
[vs. Nova (L)]

8. Providence 7-11 (PC 3-1 in 8th place mini conf)
[vs. Butler (W)]

9. Butler 7-11 (Butler 2-2 in 8th place mini conf)
[@PC (L)]

10. Depaul 7-11 (Depaul 1-3 in 8th place mini conf)
[@ Creighton (L)]


Big East Tourney Bracket (based on above results):

Seton Hall (7) vs. Depaul (10)
Providence (8) vs. Butler (9)

Villanova (1) vs. PC/Butler Winner
Creighton (4) vs. St. Johns (5)

Marquette (2) vs. Seton Hall / Depaul Winner
Xavier (3) vs. Georgetown (6)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Silver lining, I like the Hall/GTWN/DPL/X side of the bracket a lot more than the CU/SJU/PC/BUT side.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Remaining Games with TRANK's expected rounded lines:

Butler @ Providence (PC -2)
Villanova @ Seton Hall (Nova -1)
Georgetown @ Marquette (Marquette -11)
St. John's @ Xavier (Xavier -3)
Depaul @ Creighton (Creighton -9)

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

For MU to get a share of the Big East title, the following definitely needs to happen.

1) MU win over Gtown.

2) Seton Hall win over Villanova.

Both completely conceivable results. At that point it comes down to tiebreakers on the seeding.  As others have said, the seeding isn't really all that important...moreso who ends up on MU's side of the bracket.  But, let's see how the tie breakers would shake out if all expected results on Saturday occurred, except for Hall over Villanova. 

1. Marquette 13-5 (MU and Nova both 4-2 against 3rd place mini conference; MU and Nova both 2-2 against 6th place mini-conference; MU and Nova both 6-0 against 8th place mini conference; next tie breaker is BE road record, which MU wins)
[vs. Gtown (W)]

2. Villanova 13-5
[@SHU (L)]

3. Seton Hall 9-9 (Hall wins mini conference with 3-1 record)
[vs. Villanova (W)]

4. Xavier 9-9 (X 2-2 in mini conference)
[vs. SJU (W)]

5. Creighton 9-9 (CU 1-3 in mini conference)
[vs. Depaul (W)]

6. SJU 8-10 (SJU and GTown both 1-1 vs. Nova; SJU wins ties breaker with 2-0 record against MU)
[@ X (L)]

7. Georgetown 8-10
[@MU (L)]

8. Providence 7-11 (PC 3-1 in 8th place mini conf)
[vs. Butler (W)]

9. Butler 7-11 (Butler 2-2 in 8th place mini conf)
[@PC (L)]

10. Depaul 7-11 (Depaul 1-3 in 8th place mini conf)
[@ Creighton (L)]

So, if all expected results hold, except for Hall beating Nova on Saturday, MU gets the #1 seed.  But that all gets thrown out the window if say...SJU beats X on Saturday as well.   

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

For MU to get a share of the Big East title, the following definitely needs to happen.

1) MU win over Gtown.

2) Seton Hall win over Villanova.

Both completely conceivable results. At that point it comes down to tiebreakers on the seeding.  As others have said, the seeding isn't really all that important...moreso who ends up on MU's side of the bracket.  But, let's see how the tie breakers would shake out if all expected results on Saturday occurred, except for Hall over Villanova. 

1. Marquette 13-5 (MU and Nova both 4-2 against 3rd place mini conference; MU and Nova both 2-2 against 6th place mini-conference; MU and Nova both 6-0 against 8th place mini conference; next tie breaker is BE road record, which MU wins)
[vs. Gtown (W)]

2. Villanova 13-5
[@SHU (L)]

3. Seton Hall 9-9 (Hall wins mini conference with 3-1 record)
[vs. Villanova (W)]

4. Xavier 9-9 (X 2-2 in mini conference)
[vs. SJU (W)]

5. Creighton 9-9 (CU 1-3 in mini conference)
[vs. Depaul (W)]

6. SJU 8-10 (All teams 2-2 in 5th place mini conf; SJU 1-1 against Nova; 2-0 against MU)
[@ X (L)]

7. Georgetown 8-10 (2-2 in 5th place mini conf; Gtown 1-1 vs Nova; 0-2 against MU)
[@MU (L)]

8. Providence 7-11 (PC 3-1 in 8th place mini conf)
[vs. Butler (W)]

9. Butler 7-11 (Butler 2-2 in 8th place mini conf)
[@PC (L)]

10. Depaul 7-11 (Depaul 1-3 in 8th place mini conf)
[@ Creighton (L)]

So, if all expected results hold, but Hall beats Nova on Saturday, MU gets the #1 seed.  But that all gets thrown out the window if say...SJU beats X on Saturday as well.

That bracket would shake out as follows, which is pretty much the absolute best case scenario for MU.

Georgetown (7) vs. Depaul (10)
Providence (8) vs. Butler (9)

Marquette (1) vs. PC/Butler Winner
Xavier (4) vs. Creighton (5)

Villanova (2) vs. Georgetown / Depaul Winner
Seton Hall (3) vs. St. Johns (6)

[drewm88]

For MU to get a share of the Big East title...

You mean 1 seed. Share of the title just requires a win and a Nova loss.