Big East Conference Results/ NCAA/NIT/CBI

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Current Standings:

Marquette 12-2
Villanova 11-4
St. Johns 8-7
Seton Hall 7-8
Xavier 7-8
Georgetown 6-8
Butler 6-8
Creighton 6-9
Depaul 5-9
Providence 5-10


Projected Standings with expected results of remaining schedule via TRANK:

1. Marquette 15-3
[@Nova (L): vs. Creighton (W); @SHU (W); vs. Gtown (W)]

2. Nova 14-4
[vs. MU (W), vs. Butler (W); @SHU (W)]

3. SJU 10-8
[vs. X (W); @Depaul (W); @ X (L)]

4. Creighton 8-10
[@MU (L); vs.PC (W); vs. Depaul (W)

5. Xavier 8-10
[@SJU (L); @Butler (L); vs. SJU (W)]

6. Butler 8-10
[vs. PC (W): @Nova (L); vs. X (W); @PC (L)]

7. Georgetown 8-10
[vs. Depaul (W); vs. SHU (W); @ Depaul (L); @MU (L)]

8. Seton Hall 7-11
[@Gtown (L); vs. MU (L); vs. Nova (L)]

9. Providence 6-12
[@Butler (L); @Creighton (L); vs. Butler (W)]

10. Depaul 6-12
[@Gtown (L): vs. SJU (L); vs. Gtown (W); @ Creighton (L)]

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Current Standings:

Marquette 12-2
Villanova 11-4
St. Johns 8-7
Seton Hall 7-8
Xavier 7-8
Georgetown 6-8
Butler 6-8
Creighton 6-9
Depaul 5-9
Providence 5-10


Projected Standings with expected results of remaining schedule via TRANK:

1. Marquette 15-3
[@Nova (L): vs. Creighton (W); @SHU (W); vs. Gtown (W)]

2. Nova 14-4
[vs. MU (W), vs. Butler (W); @SHU (W)]

3. SJU 10-8
[vs. X (W); @Depaul (W); @ X (L)]

4. Creighton 8-10
[@MU (L); vs.PC (W); vs. Depaul (W)

5. Xavier 8-10
[@SJU (L); @Butler (L); vs. SJU (W)]

6. Butler 8-10
[vs. PC (W): @Nova (L); vs. X (W); @PC (L)]

7. Georgetown 8-10
[vs. Depaul (W); vs. SHU (W); @ Depaul (L); @MU (L)]

8. Seton Hall 7-11
[@Gtown (L); vs. MU (L); vs. Nova (L)]

9. Providence 6-12
[@Butler (L); @Creighton (L); vs. Butler (W)]

10. Depaul 6-12
[@Gtown (L): vs. SJU (L); vs. Gtown (W); @ Creighton (L)]

A couple comments:

I believe I got the tiebreakers correct, so if things hold serve (they won't) those will be the standings heading into the BET.  Bracket would looks as follows:

Play-in Round
Georgetown vs. Depaul
Seton Hall vs. Providence

Quarters
Marquette vs. Hall/PC Winner
Creighton vs. Xavier

Gtown/Depaul winner vs. Nova
SJU vs. Butler

The number of NCAA tourney bids in this scenario would be really interesting.  If Hall loses out, they kill any chance they have. But they have big opporuntities with both Nova and Marquette at home to finish Big East play.  Seton Hall vs. Gtown next Saturday is really a must win for both teams, but especially Hal.  Best case scenario for maximizing bids is most likely Hall beating Gtown, but Gtown sweeping Depaul (instead of splitting as Trank projects).  It would be nice for one or more of Butler, Seton Hall or Gtown to get to 9-9.

If things ends up as they do in the trank projected standings, I think one of the 8-10 teams sqeak into Dayton, but certainly not ideal.  Xavier and Depaul being decent this year has really brought down the middle. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm cheering for Providence and Xavier to win out, and for Georgetown to finish 3-1. Would basically be trading 2 Q3 wins for 2 Q1 wins.

[muguru]

Interestingly enough, IF this is the way it ended, To me, MU would have a tougher 1st game in the BE tourney(Hall/PC), then they would a 2nd game(if they advanced) vs Creighton/Xavier.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I'm cheering for Providence and Xavier to win out, and for Georgetown to finish 3-1. Would basically be trading 2 Q3 wins for 2 Q1 wins.

We clearly view these things in a different lens, but I just don't see how PC, X and Gtown's minor NET movements and therefore Q1/Q2 placements are going to mean much of anything for us in terms of seeding disparity.  We're likely a 3 seed regardless.  Win out, we probably get a 2.  Slip up once in BE play and lose in the BET, still probably a 3. I just don't think those teams becoming bottom tier Q1 wins as opposed to Q2 mean anything for us.

But PC, X and Gtown winning out (besides Gtown @ MU) will be absolutely devastating for the Big East getting more than 3 bids.  The league will likely only get 3 bids in that scenario.  Maybe Gtown sneaks into Dayton at 9-9 for the 4th bid, but it would be close.  I don't think the bottom feeders winning games and effectively killing any chance for the decent bubble teams (Hall and Butler) making the dance is good for the league.

[HowardsWorld]

Interestingly enough, IF this is the way it ended, To me, MU would have a tougher 1st game in the BE tourney(Hall/PC), then they would a 2nd game(if they advanced) vs Creighton/Xavier.

Don't want to see Xavier again this season.

[Lennys Tap]

If things ends up as they do in the trank projected standings, I think one of the 8-10 teams sqeak into Dayton, but certainly not ideal.  Xavier and Depaul being decent this year has really brought down the middle.

The thing most responsible for "bring down the middle" is the fact that the teams in the middle aren't good.

We are good, Villanova is usually good and St John's is sometime times good.

The rest of the conference? Not good.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

The thing most responsible for "bring down the middle" is the fact that the teams in the middle aren't good.

We are good, Villanova is usually good and St John's is sometime times good.

The rest of the conference? Not good.

Meh.  Depends on your definition of "good".  60% of the league is the top 60 in kenpom.  Gtown, X and PC are in the top 95.  Depaul is just outside of top 100.  I think its pretty safe to say that every team in the Big East is a top 75-80 team in the nation. 

The league is pretty balance 3-10.  I don't personally consider any of those teams "bad", but certainly non of them are great.  There are a lot more "bad" teams in the ACC, SEC and Pac12 than there are in the Big East.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We clearly view these things in a different lens, but I just don't see how PC, X and Gtown's minor NET movements and therefore Q1/Q2 placements are going to mean much of anything for us in terms of seeding disparity.  We're likely a 3 seed regardless.  Win out, we probably get a 2.  Slip up once in BE play and lose in the BET, still probably a 3. I just don't think those teams becoming bottom tier Q1 wins as opposed to Q2 mean anything for us.

But PC, X and Gtown winning out (besides Gtown @ MU) will be absolutely devastating for the Big East getting more than 3 bids.  The league will likely only get 3 bids in that scenario.  Maybe Gtown sneaks into Dayton at 9-9 for the 4th bid, but it would be close.  I don't think the bottom feeders winning games and effectively killing any chance for the decent bubble teams (Hall and Butler) making the dance is good for the league.

On a small scale, it's because despite the bracket reveal show, the committee starts with a blank slate on selection Sunday. I want our resume looking as good as possible so we can get that 2 seed. Or maybe even a 1 if something crazy happens in the final weeks. Also, the only team that would be kept out of the tournament by those teams winning out is Butler who isn't in anyway. Seton Hall could still make it in by beating us or Nova or having a good BET. Plus the 3-1 finish may bump Georgetown in, so the total # of bids is likely not impacted.

On a large scale, I would burn the entire conference to the ground if it helped Marquette even the slightest bit. My loyalty to the Big East only extends as far as it helps Marquette.

[MUfanatic45]

A couple comments:

I believe I got the tiebreakers correct, so if things hold serve (they won't) those will be the standings heading into the BET.  Bracket would looks as follows:

Play-in Round
Georgetown vs. Depaul
Seton Hall vs. Providence

Quarters
Marquette vs. Hall/PC Winner
Creighton vs. Xavier

Gtown/Depaul winner vs. Nova
SJU vs. Butler

The number of NCAA tourney bids in this scenario would be really interesting.  If Hall loses out, they kill any chance they have. But they have big opporuntities with both Nova and Marquette at home to finish Big East play.  Seton Hall vs. Gtown next Saturday is really a must win for both teams, but especially Hal.  Best case scenario for maximizing bids is most likely Hall beating Gtown, but Gtown sweeping Depaul (instead of splitting as Trank projects).  It would be nice for one or more of Butler, Seton Hall or Gtown to get to 9-9.

If things ends up as they do in the trank projected standings, I think one of the 8-10 teams sqeak into Dayton, but certainly not ideal.  Xavier and Depaul being decent this year has really brought down the middle.

That would be a pretty great way for the BET bracket to shape up.

A potential first game vs Seton Hall wouldn't be the most ideal but not terrible. A Creighton or X semi final is great.

Nova and SJU on the other side together and they have Butler and Gtown(who has played them to a 2-2 record with competitive losses) on their side as well.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

On a small scale, it's because despite the bracket reveal show, the committee starts with a blank slate on selection Sunday. I want our resume looking as good as possible so we can get that 2 seed. Or maybe even a 1 if something crazy happens in the final weeks. Also, the only team that would be kept out of the tournament by those teams winning out is Butler who isn't in anyway. Seton Hall could still make it in by beating us or Nova or having a good BET. Plus the 3-1 finish may bump Georgetown in, so the total # of bids is likely not impacted.

On a large scale, I would burn the entire conference to the ground if it helped Marquette even the slightest bit. My loyalty to the Big East only extends as far as it helps Marquette.

To each their own, I just don't think the Big East getting 3 bids is good for anyone, and its definitely not good for league prestige/notoriety, which means a fair bit IMO. At the end of the day, obviously our rooting interests and opinions don't matter and what happens will happen, but if MU takes care of their own business, they don't need to be concerned about what quadrant X, PC and Gtown land in.

Hall really needs to beat Gtown next Saturday to get in.  They are 7-8 currently, and they aren't going to sweep to MU and Nova last 2 games of the season.  Maybe they sneak in at 8-10 (their resume would certainly still look better than their peers, IMO), but that is obviously dicey.  A loss to Gtown would be devastating to their chances.

And PC beating Butler twice would kill them.  Butler still has a decent shot to get in.  So yah, killing 2 BE bubble teams and replacing them with a superduper iffy at large candidate in Gtown at 9-9 is less than ideal. 

[muguru]

On a small scale, it's because despite the bracket reveal show, the committee starts with a blank slate on selection Sunday. I want our resume looking as good as possible so we can get that 2 seed. Or maybe even a 1 if something crazy happens in the final weeks. Also, the only team that would be kept out of the tournament by those teams winning out is Butler who isn't in anyway. Seton Hall could still make it in by beating us or Nova or having a good BET. Plus the 3-1 finish may bump Georgetown in, so the total # of bids is likely not impacted.

On a large scale, I would burn the entire conference to the ground if it helped Marquette even the slightest bit. My loyalty to the Big East only extends as far as it helps Marquette.

Thank You! This is exactly how I feel, always have. You and I might be on this island alone. I couldn't care less how many BE teams make it to the dance, and the one's that do..I hope they get eliminated early. I care ONLY about Marquette's success, and their success alone. If no one else from the BE made the tourney...fine with me. I want MU to be the class of the conference, every single year. Whatever MOST helps MU, I am all for. I have ZERO loyalty to any of the other BE teams and will only "root" for any other BE teams, if it somehow helps MU. It has always been weird to me how other people want other teams in the conference to do good in the tourney because it helps make the conference look better...That's flawed logic to me. I want MU to look good, so they look good, regardless of how the rest of the conference is viewed. Conferences don't get bids, teams do.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

To each their own, I just don't think the Big East getting 3 bids is good for anyone, and its definitely not good for league prestige/notoriety, which means a fair bit IMO. At the end of the day, obviously our rooting interests and opinions don't matter and what happens will happen, but if MU takes care of their own business, they don't need to be concerned about what quadrant X, PC and Gtown land in.

Hall really needs to beat Gtown next Saturday to get in.  They are 7-8 currently, and they aren't going to sweep to MU and Nova last 2 games of the season.  Maybe they sneak in at 8-10 (their resume would certainly still look better than their peers, IMO), but that is obviously dicey.  A loss to Gtown would be devastating to their chances.

And PC beating Butler twice would kill them.  Butler still has a decent shot to get in.  So yah, killing 2 BE bubble teams and replacing them with a superduper iffy at large candidate in Gtown at 9-9 is less than ideal.

It wouldn't be killing 2 Big East bids. It would kill 1. Seton Hall could still get in without beating Georgetown. And it would replace one shaky resume (Butler) with another (Georgetown).

Plus, Prov, X, and Georgetown being Q1/Q2 wins/losses benefits the entire conference, not just Marquette.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Thank You! This is exactly how I feel, always have. You and I might be on this island alone. I couldn't care less how many BE teams make it to the dance, and the one's that do..I hope they get eliminated early. I care ONLY about Marquette's success, and their success alone. If no one else from the BE made the tourney...fine with me. I want MU to be the class of the conference, every single year. Whatever MOST helps MU, I am all for. I have ZERO loyalty to any of the other BE teams and will only "root" for any other BE teams, if it somehow helps MU. It has always been weird to me how other people want other teams in the conference to do good in the tourney because it helps make the conference look better...That's flawed logic to me. I want MU to look good, so they look good, regardless of how the rest of the conference is viewed. Conferences don't get bids, teams do.

To be clear, you and I aren't on the same page if you couldn't care less. I want more Big East bids than less. I want the Big East to do well in non-conference play and in the tournament. I just don't cheer for it if I think it could keep Marquette from moving up on the s-curve.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

That would be a pretty great way for the BET bracket to shape up.

A potential first game vs Seton Hall wouldn't be the most ideal but not terrible. A Creighton or X semi final is great.

Nova and SJU on the other side together and they have Butler and Gtown(who has played them to a 2-2 record with competitive losses) on their side as well.

Yah, its pretty ideal. I wouldn't really want to play Hall first game after they just played the night before if I had my choice, but its not awful.

Best case scenario for BET seeding (for MU) and NCAA bids IMO would be:

1. Marquette 16-2
2. Nova 12-6
3. SJU 11-7
4. Seton Hall 9-9
5. Butler 9-9
6. Creighton 8-10
7. Gtown 8-10
8. X 7-11
9. Depaul 5-13
10. PC 5-13


1. Marquette 16-2
[@Nova (W): vs. Creighton (W); @SHU (W); vs. Gtown (W)]

2. Nova 12-6
[vs. MU (L), vs. Butler (W); @SHU (L)]

3. SJU 11-7
[vs. X (W); @Depaul (W); @ X (W)]

4. Seton Hall 9-9
[@Gtown (W); vs. MU (L); vs. Nova (W)]

5. Butler 9-9
[vs. PC (W): @Nova (L); vs. X (W); @PC (W)]

6. Creighton 8-10
[@MU (L); vs.PC (W); vs. Depaul (W)

7. Georgetown 8-10
[vs. Depaul (W); vs. SHU (L); @ Depaul (W); @MU (L)]

8. Xavier 7-11
[@SJU (L); @Butler (L); vs. SJU (L)]

9. Depaul 5-13
[@Gtown (L): vs. SJU (L); vs. Gtown (; @ Creighton (L)]

10. Providence 5-13
[@Butler (L); @Creighton (L); vs. Butler (L)]

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

It wouldn't be killing 2 Big East bids. It would kill 1. Seton Hall could still get in without beating Georgetown. And it would replace one shaky resume (Butler) with another (Georgetown).

Plus, Prov, X, and Georgetown being Q1/Q2 wins/losses benefits the entire conference, not just Marquette.

Butler has a better resume than Georgetown today.

And it effectively kills 2 Big East bids, unless you think Seton Hall is going to lose to Gtown, and then turn around and beat Marquette and Villanova.  Possible?  I guess.  But highly unlikely.  Hall will have a much better chance if they beat Gtown, and try to steal of of the 2 against MU/Nova.  Honestly, if Hall beats one of MU/Nova and loses their other 2 BE games, they should get in at 8-10.  Their resume will be significantly better than anyone else around the bubble.  But I wouldn't feel very good on selection sunday if I were them with a sub .500 league record. 

[UWW2MU]

To be clear, you and I aren't on the same page if you couldn't care less. I want more Big East bids than less. I want the Big East to do well in non-conference play and in the tournament. I just don't cheer for it if I think it could keep Marquette from moving up on the s-curve.

Yes, exactly this.  There have been multiple examples of people commenting that what the big east as a whole doesn't matter, that only MU performance matters.  They fail to realize that we want the BE to do as well as possible (as long as it doesn't negatively impact MU) because more teams in the tourney = more tournament money to MU, more prestige for the league which thus prestige for MU, better future tv contract for league and thus again more money for MU, etc. 

What is good for the league is good for MU.  But in all this, I don't believe anyone wants the BE success to come at the expense of any accomplishments MU may get.  If anything, it would only enhance the triumph of those accomplishments.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Yes, exactly this.  There have been multiple examples of people commenting that what the big east as a whole doesn't matter, that only MU performance matters.  They fail to realize that we want the BE to do as well as possible (as long as it doesn't negatively impact MU) because more teams in the tourney = more tournament money to MU, more prestige for the league which thus prestige for MU, better future tv contract for league and thus again more money for MU, etc. 

What is good for the league is good for MU.  But in all this, I don't believe anyone wants the BE success to come at the expense of any accomplishments MU may get.  If anything, it would only enhance the triumph of those accomplishments.

This guy gets it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This guy gets it.

To be clear, I'm saying the same thing as UWW2MU. I want the Big East to do well but not at Marquette's expense.

Put another way, if the choice is between an MU 3 seed/6 BE bids & an MU 3 seed/3 BE bids, I would choose option A.

But if the choice is between an MU 2 seed/3 BE bids & an MU 3 seed/6 BE bids, I would take the MU 2 seed all day every day. Hell, I would take the MU 2 seed even if meant zero other bids from the Big East.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

To be clear, I'm saying the same thing as UWW2MU. I want the Big East to do well but not at Marquette's expense.

Put another way, if the choice is between an MU 3 seed/6 BE bids & an MU 3 seed/3 BE bids, I would choose option A.

But if the choice is between an MU 2 seed/3 BE bids & an MU 3 seed/6 BE bids, I would take the MU 2 seed all day every day. Hell, I would take the MU 2 seed even if meant zero other bids from the Big East.

I know, it wasn't a jab at you.  I think 5 or 6 BE bids is pretty important tho, so I am certainly rooting for that.  I also rooting for MU to win every game they play.  Marquette's seeding will take care of itself.  Providence, Gtown and X winning games the next 2 weeks isn't going to make MU a 2 seed.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I know, it wasn't a jab at you.  I think 5 or 6 BE bids is pretty important tho, so I am certainly rooting for that.  I also rooting for MU to win every game they play.  Marquette's seeding will take care of itself.  Providence, Gtown and X winning games the next 2 weeks isn't going to make MU a 2 seed.   

And I guess that's where we disagree. I value giving Marquette a better shot at a 2 seed over how many bids the Big East gets.

[Carl]

Yet you can't ignore that if the BE had more high quality, bid-worthy teams, Marquette would probably already be solidly on the 2 line with their conference record.  Better conference = better wins and less damaging losses.  What's good for the BE is good for Marquette.

[Its DJOver]

Yet you can't ignore that if the BE had more high quality, bid-worthy teams, Marquette would probably already be solidly on the 2 line with their conference record.  Better conference = better wins and less damaging losses.  What's good for the BE is good for Marquette.

You also can't ignore that if all the other teams were better, we probably wouldn't have the same record.  We aren't 12-2 with the quality that the conference had last year.  Part of the reason that we've only lost twice since Thanksgiving is that we haven't played as many really good teams that other's on the 1-3 line have.  It's not our fault, we can only play who's on the schedule, but if we think we deserve a 2 and get knocked to a 3 because of the strength of the conference, we'll get no sympathy from Gonzaga or Nevada.

[muguru]

Yet you can't ignore that if the BE had more high quality, bid-worthy teams, Marquette would probably already be solidly on the 2 line with their conference record.  Better conference = better wins and less damaging losses.  What's good for the BE is good for Marquette.

Actually, I don't agree, if MU had beaten Indiana, and/or SJU even once(especially at home), I think they would be locked into a #2 seed right now, and a chance at a #1 seed. Heck beating just IU may have been enough.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Actually, I don't agree, if MU had beaten Indiana, and/or SJU even once(especially at home), I think they would be locked into a #2 seed right now, and a chance at a #1 seed. Heck beating just IU may have been enough.

Have to agree besting sju at home puts us a 13 game? Winning streak and prolly 4-5 in the country?
Oh for sacars wide open finger roll layup from 6 inches that went 3"