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Author Topic: Another millennial thread...  (Read 4750 times)

WarriorDad

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2018, 09:54:47 AM »
Ah so we haven't sacrificed financially as long as it fits your narrative?

My narrative is one of experience that stretches back far longer than yours. That is what age, wisdom and experience are.  You live in a blessed time, with relatively low crime, tremendous opportunity, full employment, never having to wait hours to fuel your car, not worrying about being drafted to go to war, technology at your finger tips that we would only dream of.

Yes, my narrative is one of being alive much longer than you have.  I was you long ago, and one day you will be me. Your experiences may be different, but as I tell my kids, you cannot believe how good you have it relative to other generations the last 50 to 75 years.  Things are pretty damn great right now and have been for quite some time. You should appreciate it because you have missed out on a lot of the crap. 

forgetful

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2018, 10:18:04 AM »
My narrative is one of experience that stretches back far longer than yours. That is what age, wisdom and experience are.  You live in a blessed time, with relatively low crime, tremendous opportunity, full employment, never having to wait hours to fuel your car, not worrying about being drafted to go to war, technology at your finger tips that we would only dream of.

Yes, my narrative is one of being alive much longer than you have.  I was you long ago, and one day you will be me. Your experiences may be different, but as I tell my kids, you cannot believe how good you have it relative to other generations the last 50 to 75 years.  Things are pretty damn great right now and have been for quite some time. You should appreciate it because you have missed out on a lot of the crap.

Your judgement is clouded by ego. These generational arguments are always, "be happy for what you have, because I had to walk up hill both ways to make a nickel, and instead of crying about it, I did it".  It is pride, that you worked hard to get where you are, and now you are in a position, where you do not realize how hard others still have it. 

When you were starting out, you could buy a home, and raise a family on 1 salary. Now, two people working struggle to accomplish that, and on top of it all people working their tail off are stuck with mortgage sized student loan debts.

The idea of starting a family before one is 30 is considered impossible to most, because in order to get a salary equivalent to the $10k one you were talking about, you need an advanced degree.

I could go on and on about what the current generation has as struggles, because I know them and interact with them daily.  I also have the experience, and intellect, to be able to recognize that although the types of struggles changed between my generation and millennials, both groups have their respective struggles.  Both have their strengths and weaknesses.  And most importantly nothing ever changes in regards to cranky old men saying "kids these days."

Galway Eagle

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2018, 10:30:55 AM »
My narrative is one of experience that stretches back far longer than yours. That is what age, wisdom and experience are.  You live in a blessed time, with relatively low crime, tremendous opportunity, full employment, never having to wait hours to fuel your car, not worrying about being drafted to go to war, technology at your finger tips that we would only dream of.

Yes, my narrative is one of being alive much longer than you have.  I was you long ago, and one day you will be me. Your experiences may be different, but as I tell my kids, you cannot believe how good you have it relative to other generations the last 50 to 75 years.  Things are pretty damn great right now and have been for quite some time. You should appreciate it because you have missed out on a lot of the crap.

For all your claimed wisdom you still know nothing about the financial sacrifice of being in your 20s or even early 30s in this era. You're right, I live in a time where I haven't had to wait in lines for ages for gas, you claim I live in a time of full employment but forget that starting salaries have not increased in years to keep up with increasing cost of living.

Low crime is entirely subjective, and I would wager everything I own that where I grew up in Chicago and even the suburb I went to High school in exposed me to much more crime than you have ever been directly exposed to.

Not worrying about being drafted, again I ask you why do you not bring this up about Gen X and only millennials?

I by no means am complaining and am certainly with you that Millennials have it very nice but your claims about not making financial sacrifices are flat out wrong. Age does not earn respect, experience and humility do. One you haven't proven yet and the later your post is laking.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 11:27:13 AM by Galway Eagle »
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Babybluejeans

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2018, 11:21:24 AM »
My starting salary was less than $10K.  When I say you haven't sacrificed financially I'm talking about in comparison to others before you.  The liquidity today, the ability to gain capital, didn't exist back in the day at the levels today.  You have never experienced interest rates at 8% in your life, try dealing with 14% to 17% as the norm for several years and then being grateful when it dropped to 12% four 3 or 4 years straight.   Inflation rates double digits late '70s, early 80's.  We haven't seen it above 4% since 1991.

You don't have the lens of experience because you haven't been alive long enough to go through the ups and downs.   You will, and then you can pass on the cranky wisdom to the next group that tells you how bad they have it.

We've had 9/11, which ushered in the age of terrorism (also called the age of anxiety), two wars that are still going on, a revival of anti-market authoritarianism across the globe, and the worst recession since the Great Depression at precisely the moment we were entering the workforce. Every generation has ups and downs. It's all sides. You're cranky, yes. Are you wise? Not remotely.

JWags85

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2018, 11:24:57 AM »
For all your wisdom you still know nothing about the financial sacrifice of being in your 20s or even early 30s in this era. You're right, I live in a time where I haven't had to wait in lines for ages for gas, you claim I live in a time of full employment but forget that starting salaries have not increased in years to keep up with increasing cost of living.

Not to mention going to college basically guaranteed a job, and great business leaders got their start with notable companies with a history or philosophy degree.  I had an older peer, in their 50s, tell me about how they took a lower salary in the early 80s to pursue a job they really felt passionate about while their friends took jobs for substantially higher.  My starting salary, in a business position, 25 years later in 2008 was about $12K higher.  And I can assure you COL increased mightily in that time.

Every generation makes things better for, and also F***s things up for latter generations, and then tells them they have no right to complain.  Its been happening for centuries.

MU82

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #55 on: December 12, 2018, 11:35:33 AM »
I have two college-educated Millennial kids (31 and 30) who were raised by loving parents with decent means, and their experience/situation is far closer to what the Millennials on this board are saying than to the out-of-touch ramblings of cubbiechicos.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will.

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TSmith34

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #56 on: December 12, 2018, 12:34:19 PM »
Unless you were active duty or family of one in the Vietnam era what did one have to sacrifice?

And to answer your question directly, things like the oil embargo, spending on cold war programs instead of local programs, etc.had generational impacts.
YMMV, but I don't feel those things required the slightest bit of sacrifice of me.   A few more cents for gas vs. getting shot and killed?  Not remotely in the same ballpark.

The draft was still in place for Vietnam, unlike for the Gulf War, so the sacrifice was not voluntary.  And WW II had ration books, victory gardens, etc.  Sacrifice was shared by all.
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Pakuni

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #57 on: December 12, 2018, 12:39:18 PM »
My generation had it tougher than your generation arguments never get old.

TSmith34

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #58 on: December 12, 2018, 01:01:15 PM »
My generation had it tougher than your generation arguments never get old.
Actually, my argument is "my generation had it incredibly easy".
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mu03eng

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #59 on: December 12, 2018, 01:36:20 PM »
YMMV, but I don't feel those things required the slightest bit of sacrifice of me.   A few more cents for gas vs. getting shot and killed?  Not remotely in the same ballpark.

The draft was still in place for Vietnam, unlike for the Gulf War, so the sacrifice was not voluntary.  And WW II had ration books, victory gardens, etc.  Sacrifice was shared by all.

So your argument boils down to if you were born after 1972 you had it easy because there was no shooting war you were forced into?

Less than 5% of the US population served during the Vietnam era of which a third served in the Asiatic theater. Of the just over 9M active duty personnel in the Vietnam era, 25% were drafted. If WWII is the metric by which we are comparing sacrificing, the Vietnam era is significantly behind that.

Statistics aren't readily available but generally accepted is that somewhere between 1 and 2% of the US population served on active duty in the 80s and 90s. They weren't involved in one all encompassing shooting war but there was no doubt sacrifice.

Lastly, I'm simply comparing a generational experience that resulted in sacrifice by the generation in total not some aspect of it. The greatest generation not only endured WWII collectively but were raised in the Dust Bowl/Great Depression. Yes the Vietnam generation experienced Vietnam but as a "percentage" of it's experience it's significantly lower than WWII era, there were lots of other positives going on as well. The Gen Xers didn't have some big shooting war, but they experienced significant gas shortages, rampant inflation, significant expenditures in public finance to win the Cold War, etc. I'm not trying to say the Xers had it worse at all, simply saying you are dismissing that generation (and certainly the millennial generation) as some how having it easy compared to the Vietnam era is as ignorant as Chico's position that Gen X and/or Millennials are soft.
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TSmith34

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #60 on: December 12, 2018, 02:54:38 PM »
My contention is that my generation, GenX, had it very easy.  First of all, Vietnam was the Boomers, not GenX; we didn't come of age until it was well over.  The Cold War?  Mostly before our time, too, and the extent to which is wasn't, I don't see the big impact.  Gas shortages?  Mostly before our time and quite a brief period.

Personally, I don't consider any of things you listed-- public expenditures, brief inflationary periods, etc. to be anything other than brief inconveniences, and certainly not generational challenges.  Heck, even the horrors of Disco were mostly before the time of any except the oldest of GenX.  Again YMMV or hwo they impacted you.

But I take exceptional to you implying that I somewhere said GenXers or GenYers are soft.  I didn't say or imply that. My contention is limited to saying that we GenXers faced little real adversity at a generational level.

EDIT: Sorry, I see you are pointing out that Chicos, not I, called them soft.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 02:56:36 PM by TSmith34 »
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mu03eng

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #61 on: December 12, 2018, 03:50:32 PM »
My contention is that my generation, GenX, had it very easy.  First of all, Vietnam was the Boomers, not GenX; we didn't come of age until it was well over.  The Cold War?  Mostly before our time, too, and the extent to which is wasn't, I don't see the big impact.  Gas shortages?  Mostly before our time and quite a brief period.

Personally, I don't consider any of things you listed-- public expenditures, brief inflationary periods, etc. to be anything other than brief inconveniences, and certainly not generational challenges.  Heck, even the horrors of Disco were mostly before the time of any except the oldest of GenX.  Again YMMV or hwo they impacted you.

But I take exceptional to you implying that I somewhere said GenXers or GenYers are soft.  I didn't say or imply that. My contention is limited to saying that we GenXers faced little real adversity at a generational level.

EDIT: Sorry, I see you are pointing out that Chicos, not I, called them soft.

What time period are you defining Gen Xers? If I'm bounding it you are saying anyone born at best 1965 up to what 1980? I mean if you are saying anyone that was a young adult or an adult in the 80s, there was the AIDs crisis, Iran-Contra, Black Monday, the emergence of terrorism as a global issue (Pan-AM, Beirut, etc) and the Cold War carried on for the entire decade of the 80s. Inflation at the start of the 80s peaked at almost 15% which denied millions the ability to access credit and/or affordable housing in the late 70s/early 80s.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #62 on: December 12, 2018, 04:09:54 PM »
What time period are you defining Gen Xers? If I'm bounding it you are saying anyone born at best 1965 up to what 1980? I mean if you are saying anyone that was a young adult or an adult in the 80s, there was the AIDs crisis, Iran-Contra, Black Monday, the emergence of terrorism as a global issue (Pan-AM, Beirut, etc) and the Cold War carried on for the entire decade of the 80s. Inflation at the start of the 80s peaked at almost 15% which denied millions the ability to access credit and/or affordable housing in the late 70s/early 80s.


Peak divorce rates as well.  Many GenXers grew up in broken families.

buckchuckler

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #63 on: December 12, 2018, 04:13:01 PM »
What time period are you defining Gen Xers? If I'm bounding it you are saying anyone born at best 1965 up to what 1980? I mean if you are saying anyone that was a young adult or an adult in the 80s, there was the AIDs crisis, Iran-Contra, Black Monday, the emergence of terrorism as a global issue (Pan-AM, Beirut, etc) and the Cold War carried on for the entire decade of the 80s. Inflation at the start of the 80s peaked at almost 15% which denied millions the ability to access credit and/or affordable housing in the late 70s/early 80s.

There was stuff, sure.  But I think largely, Boomers had it easier than the greatest generation.  Gen X ers had it easier than Boomers, and Millennials have it easier than gen x ers.  And you could continue that trend back probably to the middle ages. 
Their= possessive of they
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There= the opposite of here

TSmith34

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #64 on: December 12, 2018, 06:07:51 PM »
What time period are you defining Gen Xers? If I'm bounding it you are saying anyone born at best 1965 up to what 1980? I mean if you are saying anyone that was a young adult or an adult in the 80s, there was the AIDs crisis, Iran-Contra, Black Monday, the emergence of terrorism as a global issue (Pan-AM, Beirut, etc) and the Cold War carried on for the entire decade of the 80s. Inflation at the start of the 80s peaked at almost 15% which denied millions the ability to access credit and/or affordable housing in the late 70s/early 80s.

Yes, generally described as 1965-1980.  Not sure why it is fewer years than the definition for many other generations. 

But of the issues you list, only the AIDs epidemic strikes me as particularly impactful.  Iran-Contra?  What was the impact? 

Black Monday was barely a blip; stocks had run up very significantly and it was a correction to mean.  Unless you panicked and sold, you had already recovered in two years.

Terrorism was a very minor issue during this timeframe, certainly vastly less in the public consciousness back then compared to now.

High interest rates?  GenX was too young to be buying houses during that time.  Maybe it affected us by having to live in apartments, but I hardly consider that a huge negative.

Cold War?  I don't know, maybe.  There was the fear that Reagan and a rotating cast of Russians would get into a nuke war, but that went away with Gorbachev and the fall of the Soviet Union, and before that there wasn't really much impact on day-to-day life.

I just don't see that any of those is remotely comparable to the social upheavals of the 60s when there were riots going on, and certainly not the Great Depression and WW II of the 30s and 40s.

Happily, I don't think GenXers ever had to pass tests like those.
"Bigly mentally unstable, believe me.  Sad, unbelievably sad."

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #65 on: December 12, 2018, 07:02:14 PM »
There was stuff, sure.  But I think largely, Boomers had it easier than the greatest generation.  Gen X ers had it easier than Boomers, and Millennials have it easier than gen x ers.  And you could continue that trend back probably to the middle ages.

I agree and I’m thankful that is the case — the average persons life continues to get better/easier to fulfill our basic needs with every generation. 

This by the way doesn’t mean life hasn’t gotten more complex or adversity is gone—it just changes. 

4everwarriors

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #66 on: December 12, 2018, 08:27:05 PM »
Useta trap around bearfoot in da snow at 5 am deliverin' da fookin' Sentinel befour school in da winter and den sweat and roast my jewels loadin' 40 ft. semis bye hand all sommer long. Chit, y'all don't no watt hard work is. Kids taday are two soft and cuddled, hey?
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MUBurrow

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #67 on: December 13, 2018, 09:10:43 AM »
High interest rates?  GenX was too young to be buying houses during that time.  Maybe it affected us by having to live in apartments, but I hardly consider that a huge negative.


Also bear in mind that when interest rates were hanging out in the low double digits, it wasn't unusual for average wages to jump 6%-8% per year. So while inflation was objectively a problem, that was to some extent balanced out by income increases and the benefits of those same interest rates on deposits and bonds, which are some of the most accessible investments. Again, I don't want to say it wasn't a problem, but I would argue that today's rock bottom interest rates actually reflect a much worse economic reality than 1980's inflation did.

Waldo Jeffers

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #68 on: December 13, 2018, 09:26:27 AM »
Useta trap around bearfoot in da snow at 5 am deliverin' da fookin' Sentinel befour school in da winter and den sweat and roast my jewels loadin' 40 ft. semis bye hand all sommer long. Chit, y'all don't no watt hard work is. Kids taday are two soft and cuddled, hey?

glad that you can now afford shoes eh?

RushmoreAcademy

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2018, 09:56:13 AM »
It was said back up in the thread, but the greatest part of all these millennial takes are that the older generation complains about the generation that they raised.  The number 1 factor on how somebody turns out is their parents.
I work in education in a very economically diverse area, and deal with parents on a daily basis. The correlation between bad attitude students and their parents is nearly 1 to 1, and has very little to do with means.

Jockey

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #70 on: December 13, 2018, 10:05:48 AM »
There was stuff, sure.  But I think largely, Boomers had it easier than the greatest generation.  Gen X ers had it easier than Boomers, and Millennials have it easier than gen x ers.  And you could continue that trend back probably to the middle ages.

I think, physically, each generation has it easier than the one before it. But technology is the driver of everything now. Growing up now is much harder in every other aspect.

Politics rachets up fear. People want hope and change, but there is too much money to be made in the fear business. Our kids now grow up knowing that any day could be their last because that is what they are taught.

When I was a kid, we never had to worry about any of that. At 15, the only worries were what park is the next ball game at, and girls.

MU82

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #71 on: December 13, 2018, 12:08:20 PM »
Our kids now grow up knowing that any day could be their last because that is what they are taught.

When I was a kid, we never had to worry about any of that. At 15, the only worries were what park is the next ball game at, and girls.

This is a good point.

We live at the end of a cul de sac in suburbia ... and the woman across the street won't let her kids go out to play in the front yard because she thinks they'll be abducted.

That's extreme, of course, but it's not all that much from the norm.

Growing up, I had an idyllic life. As you said, brand, I'd leave the house after breakfast and often didn't come home till dinner; it was all about basketball or baseball or whatever. My kids (Millennials) growing up in Chicago much less freedom to come and go (although we gave them more freedom than a lot of their friends had). And when they have kids ... fuggettabout it. Everybody is afraid of everything now; danger lurks around every corner.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will.

-- Frederick Douglass

barfolomew

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #72 on: December 13, 2018, 01:23:24 PM »
danger lurks around every corner.

Yes I have a lot of skunks in my neighborhood too.


When I was a kid, we never had to worry about any of that. At 15, the only worries were what park is the next ball game at, and girls.

I don't know how old you are, Jock, but The Day After miniseries scared the ever-loving sh!t out of 12-year-old Barf.
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Benny B

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #73 on: December 13, 2018, 01:31:31 PM »
Politics rachets up fear. People want hope and change, but there is too much money political gain to be made in the fear business.

FIFY.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

MU82

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Re: Another millennial thread...
« Reply #74 on: December 13, 2018, 01:32:22 PM »
I love these threads because there is nothing more useful than labeling an entire group of people.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did, and it never will.

-- Frederick Douglass