MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on November 29, 2018, 06:57:42 PM
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https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-kill-industries-because-poor-fed-report-2018-11
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I paid off my student loans in 5 years out of school, but some or most won't be as fortunate. At some point, their debt is going to be a problem for the housing market, since there is a whole generation of would-be buyers that can't afford it. This goes for many, many other industries as well
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One of the reasons my wife and I really worked to make sure our daughter graduated college with a old used-car worth of debt and not a BMW amount of debt. Starting out $100k in the hole is rough.
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One of the reasons my wife and I really worked to make sure our daughter graduated college with a old used-car worth of debt and not a BMW amount of debt. Starting out $100k in the hole is rough.
I was in a good spot financially after Marquette. Went back to grad school. That set things back. Happy with my career decision. But I'll be behind the debt 8-ball for decades
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Shouldn't this be: Another, another millennial thread...
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A few more to go. They each need one. Hey-o.
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I was in a good spot financially after Marquette. Went back to grad school. That set things back. Happy with my career decision. But I'll be behind the debt 8-ball for decades
Hoping my story doesn't mirror yours...
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I was in a good spot financially after Marquette. Went back to grad school. That set things back. Happy with my career decision. But I'll be behind the debt 8-ball for decades
Out of curiosity, why did you go back to school then?
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Out of curiosity, why did you go back to school then?
PA school.
I should have clarified that I'm much happier in my career/job now vs before grad school
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PA school.
I should have clarified that I'm much happier in my career/job now vs before grad school
Yeah ok. I wasn’t trying to be a smart ass but there had to be *some* reason why you went to graduate school. And that’s a real good reason.
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right now my payment plan has my last payment at age 61. All from grad school as my loans at MU were minimal. Opening a business has set back the idea of moving that payoff date up too.
It's amazing though, my grad school tuition topped out at $25K my final year, now it's $41K for tuition alone. MU is ranked lower and costs nearly $45K. It's no wonder more of us in that situation (Millennial or not) are living a more minimalist lifestyle. We don't have the disposable income to just buy random crap and realize that we don't need a big house. I always think back to one of my favorite footballers who when asked what he collected said "nothing. I see no reason to buy things just to have them." Wise words indeed.
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I was lucky when it came to grad school. I found a graduate assistantship that paid all of my tuition. Worked 20 hours of week and had my tuition paid in full, including fees. I even got free housing as part of the package though that is considerable rarer. Most schools offer dozens of such assistantships but I only think a very small population of grad students are even aware that they exist. Any time a student tells me they are interested in grad school I always encourage them to look for assistantships.
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Had grad school 100% paid for by my company...took an extra year going nights and weekends but easy trade to have zero tuition debt.
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Had grad school 100% paid for by my company...took an extra year going nights and weekends but easy trade to have zero tuition debt.
I wish either of those was an option
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I wish either of those was an option
Unfortunately, this is a perk that has been slashed dramatically by companies everywhere. I did my MBA courtesy of the trade association for which I worked in the 1980s. They paid 75 percent of it and the remainder was tax deductible. The amazing thing was no one other than our administrative assistants took advantage of it until I did.
After I began working on my MBA (Loyola University of Chicago), our firm paid for about three Northwestern MBAs, one University of Chicago MBA and a DePaul University math degree, almost all from the same department of our firm (mine). Even in those days, that was very expensive.
Firms themselves were in a conundrum. They spent a lot of money on MBAs. They had people who were overqualified for their positions but were not always situated to move those folks into positions appropriate to experience and education. So the folks left, meaning the company made a massive investment in a person's education but got little back for it.
That's probably the biggest reason why the tuition assistance programs died.
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https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672103209/why-arent-millennials-spending-more-they-re-poorer-than-their-parents-fed-says (https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672103209/why-arent-millennials-spending-more-they-re-poorer-than-their-parents-fed-says)
Good context in this article, a lot of stuff millennials are experiencing isn't unique to them but given the macro economic changes they are behaving differently....for how long is the ultimate question
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Unfortunately, this is a perk that has been slashed dramatically by companies everywhere. I did my MBA courtesy of the trade association for which I worked in the 1980s. They paid 75 percent of it and the remainder was tax deductible. The amazing thing was no one other than our administrative assistants took advantage of it until I did.
After I began working on my MBA (Loyola University of Chicago), our firm paid for about three Northwestern MBAs, one University of Chicago MBA and a DePaul University math degree, almost all from the same department of our firm (mine). Even in those days, that was very expensive.
Firms themselves were in a conundrum. They spent a lot of money on MBAs. They had people who were overqualified for their positions but were not always situated to move those folks into positions appropriate to experience and education. So the folks left, meaning the company made a massive investment in a person's education but got little back for it.
That's probably the biggest reason why the tuition assistance programs died.
You're probably right, but I also think universities have priced companies out of offering that perk as well.
One thing I see a long term trend with companies is acting like employees are commodities and that will impact those companies negatively long term. Yes at lower wage levels automation starts to take over but that means you have to opportunities for creating value in terms of new products and services which will require talented/educated human capital. Companies are acting very short sited right now
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Aurora Healthcare and her TA position pay all (maybe more, not recalling) of our DD's graduate Nursing education at MU. That'll likely apply all the way through her PhD.
I really feel for you guys with massive debt. A little skin in the game is all good but our kids' debt is 'used car' money.
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You're probably right, but I also think universities have priced companies out of offering that perk as well.
One thing I see a long term trend with companies is acting like employees are commodities and that will impact those companies negatively long term. Yes at lower wage levels automation starts to take over but that means you have to opportunities for creating value in terms of new products and services which will require talented/educated human capital. Companies are acting very short sited right now
I think the bigger issue is too many employees were using the opportunity to get a sham MBA from for-profit universities (with very high tuition), in order to get the MBA-raise.
So companies were paying a crap ton of money, and having to give a pay raise, for a worthless piece of paper.
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You're probably right, but I also think universities have priced companies out of offering that perk as well.
One thing I see a long term trend with companies is acting like employees are commodities and that will impact those companies negatively long term. Yes at lower wage levels automation starts to take over but that means you have to opportunities for creating value in terms of new products and services which will require talented/educated human capital. Companies are acting very short sited right now
Word.
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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/stop-blaming-millennials-killing-economy/577408/
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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/stop-blaming-millennials-killing-economy/577408/
Looks like a nice millenial wrote that article. ;)
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Looks like a nice millenial wrote that article. ;)
Yea. Facts and statistics are a real pain.
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Yea. Facts and statistics are a real pain.
I've raised a few millenials. Worked at one time with more than I can count. Patience is a virtue they lack. Most of us had to wait our turn, but I found all too often an entitlement by some. Some got it, too many didn't. They couldn't wait to tell you how they were the smartest hot shots in the room, but they lacked experience which is the great equalizer. Experience takes time, and to many didn't want to wait in my opinion. They are also part of a much more competitive world than in the past, that's a matter of timing and bad luck. Of course they could have been fighting in wars and being killed if born in an earlier generation, but that would require perspective and less whining.
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I've raised a few millenials. Worked at one time with more than I can count. Patience is a virtue they lack. Most of us had to wait our turn, but I found all too often an entitlement by some. Some got it, too many didn't. They couldn't wait to tell you how they were the smartest hot shots in the room, but they lacked experience which is the great equalizer. Experience takes time, and to many didn't want to wait in my opinion. They are also part of a much more competitive world than in the past, that's a matter of timing and bad luck. Of course they could have been fighting in wars and being killed if born in an earlier generation, but that would require perspective and less whining.
Thanks for the perfect example of cliche millennial commentary.
Also, is the irony lost on you that you are responsible for the rearing of those which you seem to have so much disdain for?
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I've raised a few millenials. Worked at one time with more than I can count. Patience is a virtue they lack. Most of us had to wait our turn, but I found all too often an entitlement by some.
Patience is virtue that all younger generations lack - and have lacked. This is nothing new.
They couldn't wait to tell you how they were the smartest hot shots in the room, but they lacked experience which is the great equalizer. Experience takes time, and to many didn't want to wait in my opinion.
No different then previous generations.
They are also part of a much more competitive world than in the past, that's a matter of timing and bad luck.
Not sure that is accurate. But really not sure if it matters.
Of course they could have been fighting in wars and being killed if born in an earlier generation, but that would require perspective and less whining.
Many of them have been "fighting wars and being killed." Have you forgotten?
Regardless, that's pretty over the top.
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Of course they could have been fighting in wars and being killed if born in an earlier generation, but that would require perspective and less whining.
1. They are, in fact, there are service members fighting in said "millennial" wars who weren't even born when the war started.
2. The millennial war experience is not that different than previous generations that aren't WWII. Wars with good intentions or not, but at the start were popular and saw that popularity erode. Service in the war is borne by 1% of the generation and largely poorer economic class. Peers who are idealistic and well intentioned but not understanding the experience of those who did serve.
3. No young generation ever has perspective, that is a function of time and experience....neither of which a young generation has. Now it seems that you are representing an example of how time and experience isn't always successful at educating someone but that doesn't invalidate the overall point
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Many of them have been "fighting wars and being killed." Have you forgotten?
Regardless, that's pretty over the top.
Not to the level of my generation, and much less so of generations older than mine. It isn't over the top when you consider the sacrifices others have made. The things people complain about today would make men and women from 50 years ago vomit. God forbid not everyone can get the latest iphone upgrade every year, or only get 3 weeks of vacation, can spend months at home with a newborn, protections at every turn. We have it pretty damn good compared to others that complained infinitely less.
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Not to the level of my generation, and much less so of generations older than mine. It isn't over the top when you consider the sacrifices others have made. The things people complain about today would make men and women from 50 years ago vomit. God forbid not everyone can get the latest iphone upgrade every year, or only get 3 weeks of vacation, can spend months at home with a newborn, protections at every turn. We have it pretty damn good compared to others that complained infinitely less.
Do you know who else used to have moronic and irrational arguments about the current generation with a very similar tone to this?
Anyone have a guess?
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Thanks for the perfect example of cliche millennial commentary.
Also, is the irony lost on you that you are responsible for the rearing of those which you seem to have so much disdain for?
I don't disdain millenials. I find them misguided and a product of the environment in which they grew up. They essentially never lacked creature comforts, which is a blessing and a curse. Mom and dad did the sacrificing for the kids, and my parents and others warned society this was not a good thing. They were right. Eventually millenials are starting to get it, with a bit more life experience, patience and eventual turning of the life cycle they have no choice. That is a good thing.
There was nothing cliche about my comment. The millenial generation as a whole has not sacrificed, be it financially, militarily, socially, health, you name it. They have had it very good, a product of an advanced society and technology that goes with it. They should be more thankful then they are, but that will come eventually.
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Not to the level of my generation, and much less so of generations older than mine. It isn't over the top when you consider the sacrifices others have made. The things people complain about today would make men and women from 50 years ago vomit. God forbid not everyone can get the latest iphone upgrade every year, or only get 3 weeks of vacation, can spend months at home with a newborn, protections at every turn. We have it pretty damn good compared to others that complained infinitely less.
Are you really crying out against spending time at home with a newborn? Wow
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I don't disdain millenials. I find them misguided and a product of the environment in which they grew up. They essentially never lacked creature comforts, which is a blessing and a curse. Mom and dad did the sacrificing for the kids, and my parents and others warned society this was not a good thing. They were right. Eventually millenials are starting to get it, with a bit more life experience, patience and eventual turning of the life cycle they have no choice. That is a good thing.
There was nothing cliche about my comment. The millenial generation as a whole has not sacrificed, be it financially, militarily, socially, health, you name it. They have had it very good, a product of an advanced society and technology that goes with it. They should be more thankful then they are, but that will come eventually.
You are judging an entire generation based on your misguided ideals of a few millennials. If you knew a lot of millennials, you would view them a lot differently.
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I don't disdain millenials. I find them misguided and a product of the environment in which they grew up. They essentially never lacked creature comforts, which is a blessing and a curse. Mom and dad did the sacrificing for the kids, and my parents and others warned society this was not a good thing. They were right. Eventually millenials are starting to get it, with a bit more life experience, patience and eventual turning of the life cycle they have no choice. That is a good thing.
There was nothing cliche about my comment. The millenial generation as a whole has not sacrificed, be it financially, militarily, socially, health, you name it. They have had it very good, a product of an advanced society and technology that goes with it. They should be more thankful then they are, but that will come eventually.
Yeah we haven't sacrificed financially. Hey wanna compare your old student loans with mine, then compare the cost of living with mine, then compare your starting salary relative to those numbers to mine?
People like you who think every millennials is sitting there at $90 brunch twice a weekend, desperate to live in fancy ultra modern apartments with no student loans making upward of 60k are completely out of touch.
And since you care so much about sacrificing militarily, tell me which war did Gen X sacrifice so much for?
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Thanks for the perfect example of cliche millennial commentary.
Also, is the irony lost on you that you are responsible for the rearing of those which you seem to have so much disdain for?
Jesus Christ. Jesmu - identifying with a meaningless label is not the same thing as being interesting or having a position.
There has to be something to better fill your time then to constantly bring posts back to “Millenials” “news” and getting butthurt when other posters share a viewpoint different from yours.
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Jesus Christ. Jesmu - identifying with a meaningless label is not the same thing as being interesting or having a position.
There has to be something to better fill your time then to constantly bring posts back to “Millenials” “news” and getting butthurt when other posters share a viewpoint different from yours.
Listening to the constant insulting of one generation by another gets tiresome.
I forgot that's acceptable and defending their mindset/position in socioeconomics is bad.
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They couldn't wait to tell you how they were the smartest hot shots in the room, but they lacked experience which is the great equalizer. Experience takes time, and to many didn't want to wait in my opinion.
The summer I was hired full time out of Marquette I worked with a guy who was there as a summer intern who was just like this. If I didn't have control over my eyes they would have permanently rolled back in my head listening to how great he was.
Of course he was from a far more detestable group of people...a Badger
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They essentially never lacked creature comforts, which is a blessing and a curse. Mom and dad did the sacrificing for the kids, and my parents and others warned society this was not a good thing. They were right... as a whole has not sacrificed, be it financially, militarily, socially, health, you name it. They have had it very good, a product of an advanced society and technology that goes with it.
This seems to describe boomers a heck of a lot more than millenials to me, and based on a much larger sample size to boot - but what do I know.
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I forgot that's acceptable and defending their mindset/position in socioeconomics is bad.
You have offered no defense of a position, other than playing a victim about a meaningless demographic trend that should not impact you directly in the least.
If you’re not the ass in the room claiming victim, or intellectual superiority, or rewards for work not done.... you’re not what anyone is complaining about.
I'll add that the article was written by authors who do not (to my knowledge) post here on MU Scoop.
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You have offered no defense of a position, other than playing a victim about a meaningless demographic trend that should not impact you directly in the least.
If you’re not the ass in the room claiming victim, or intellectual superiority, or rewards for work not done.... you’re not what anyone is complaining about.
I'll add that the article was written by authors who do not (to my knowledge) post here on MU Scoop.
Coming in hard off the top rope with the second post ever......
(https://pics.me.me/thats-a-bold-strategy-cotton-lets-see-if-it-pays-35460919.png)
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Efficient Frontier has posted more than that. The number of posts is "Hanging at the Al" only.
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And since you care so much about sacrificing militarily, tell me which war did Gen X sacrifice so much for?
Grenada? The New Coke massacre?
In all seriousness, I'm often thought about this and the fact that as GenXers we never had to face a true national conflict like WW II, Vietnam, or even upheavals domestically such as the Civil Rights movement. Even the Gulf War was relatively short and had low casualties. For good or bad, we never faced a level of sacrifice that previous generations did.
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Grenada? The New Coke massacre?
In all seriousness, I'm often thought about this and the fact that as GenXers we never had to face a true national conflict like WW II, Vietnam, or even upheavals domestically such as the Civil Rights movement. Even the Gulf War was relatively short and had low casualties. For good or bad, we never faced a level of sacrifice that previous generations did.
Ummm, Cold War, Panama, Grenada, Iran, countless other Latin American skirmishes that went unreported? Just because people didn't die in an active shooting war isn't a measure of sacrifice.
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You have offered no defense of a position, other than playing a victim about a meaningless demographic trend that should not impact you directly in the least.
If you’re not the ass in the room claiming victim, or intellectual superiority, or rewards for work not done.... you’re not what anyone is complaining about.
I'll add that the article was written by authors who do not (to my knowledge) post here on MU Scoop.
How do you have any idea whether or not I'm impacted by the economic realities mentioned in the article?
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There was nothing cliche about my comment. The millenial generation as a whole has not sacrificed, be it financially, militarily, socially, health, you name it.
You've brought up military service a lot in this thread, Cheekz. Remind me: which military branch did you serve in?
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Ummm, Cold War, Panama, Grenada, Iran, countless other Latin American skirmishes that went unreported? Just because people didn't die in an active shooting war isn't a measure of sacrifice.
All of those combined don't remotely add up to Vietnam or WW II. And, due to there no longer being a draft, for the vast majority of Americans there was no sacrifice required. Unless you were in the active military or had family that was, what sacrifice did one have to make?
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The things people complain about today would make men and women from 50 years ago vomit.
Says the guy complaining today.
All right already ... we'll all get off of your lawn!
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All of those combined don't remotely add up to Vietnam or WW II. And, due to there no longer being a draft, for the vast majority of Americans there was no sacrifice required. Unless you were in the active military or had family that was, what sacrifice did one have to make?
Unless you were active duty or family of one in the Vietnam era what did one have to sacrifice?
And to answer your question directly, things like the oil embargo, spending on cold war programs instead of local programs, etc.had generational impacts.
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You've brought up military service a lot in this thread, Cheekz. Remind me: which military branch did you serve in?
Maybe his daddy bought him "bone spurs."
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Yeah we haven't sacrificed financially. Hey wanna compare your old student loans with mine, then compare the cost of living with mine, then compare your starting salary relative to those numbers to mine?
People like you who think every millennials is sitting there at $90 brunch twice a weekend, desperate to live in fancy ultra modern apartments with no student loans making upward of 60k are completely out of touch.
And since you care so much about sacrificing militarily, tell me which war did Gen X sacrifice so much for?
My starting salary was less than $10K. When I say you haven't sacrificed financially I'm talking about in comparison to others before you. The liquidity today, the ability to gain capital, didn't exist back in the day at the levels today. You have never experienced interest rates at 8% in your life, try dealing with 14% to 17% as the norm for several years and then being grateful when it dropped to 12% four 3 or 4 years straight. Inflation rates double digits late '70s, early 80's. We haven't seen it above 4% since 1991.
You don't have the lens of experience because you haven't been alive long enough to go through the ups and downs. You will, and then you can pass on the cranky wisdom to the next group that tells you how bad they have it.
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My starting salary was less than $10K. When I say you haven't sacrificed financially I'm talking about in comparison to others before you. The liquidity today, the ability to gain capital, didn't exist back in the day at the levels today. You have never experienced interest rates at 8% in your life, try dealing with 14% to 17% as the norm for several years and then being grateful when it dropped to 12% four 3 or 4 years straight. Inflation rates double digits late '70s, early 80's. We haven't seen it above 4% since 1991.
You don't have the lens of experience because you haven't been alive long enough to go through the ups and downs. You will, and then you can pass on the cranky wisdom to the next group that tells you how bad they have it.
Ah so we haven't sacrificed financially as long as it fits your narrative?
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Ah so we haven't sacrificed financially as long as it fits your narrative?
My narrative is one of experience that stretches back far longer than yours. That is what age, wisdom and experience are. You live in a blessed time, with relatively low crime, tremendous opportunity, full employment, never having to wait hours to fuel your car, not worrying about being drafted to go to war, technology at your finger tips that we would only dream of.
Yes, my narrative is one of being alive much longer than you have. I was you long ago, and one day you will be me. Your experiences may be different, but as I tell my kids, you cannot believe how good you have it relative to other generations the last 50 to 75 years. Things are pretty damn great right now and have been for quite some time. You should appreciate it because you have missed out on a lot of the crap.
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My narrative is one of experience that stretches back far longer than yours. That is what age, wisdom and experience are. You live in a blessed time, with relatively low crime, tremendous opportunity, full employment, never having to wait hours to fuel your car, not worrying about being drafted to go to war, technology at your finger tips that we would only dream of.
Yes, my narrative is one of being alive much longer than you have. I was you long ago, and one day you will be me. Your experiences may be different, but as I tell my kids, you cannot believe how good you have it relative to other generations the last 50 to 75 years. Things are pretty damn great right now and have been for quite some time. You should appreciate it because you have missed out on a lot of the crap.
Your judgement is clouded by ego. These generational arguments are always, "be happy for what you have, because I had to walk up hill both ways to make a nickel, and instead of crying about it, I did it". It is pride, that you worked hard to get where you are, and now you are in a position, where you do not realize how hard others still have it.
When you were starting out, you could buy a home, and raise a family on 1 salary. Now, two people working struggle to accomplish that, and on top of it all people working their tail off are stuck with mortgage sized student loan debts.
The idea of starting a family before one is 30 is considered impossible to most, because in order to get a salary equivalent to the $10k one you were talking about, you need an advanced degree.
I could go on and on about what the current generation has as struggles, because I know them and interact with them daily. I also have the experience, and intellect, to be able to recognize that although the types of struggles changed between my generation and millennials, both groups have their respective struggles. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. And most importantly nothing ever changes in regards to cranky old men saying "kids these days."
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My narrative is one of experience that stretches back far longer than yours. That is what age, wisdom and experience are. You live in a blessed time, with relatively low crime, tremendous opportunity, full employment, never having to wait hours to fuel your car, not worrying about being drafted to go to war, technology at your finger tips that we would only dream of.
Yes, my narrative is one of being alive much longer than you have. I was you long ago, and one day you will be me. Your experiences may be different, but as I tell my kids, you cannot believe how good you have it relative to other generations the last 50 to 75 years. Things are pretty damn great right now and have been for quite some time. You should appreciate it because you have missed out on a lot of the crap.
For all your claimed wisdom you still know nothing about the financial sacrifice of being in your 20s or even early 30s in this era. You're right, I live in a time where I haven't had to wait in lines for ages for gas, you claim I live in a time of full employment but forget that starting salaries have not increased in years to keep up with increasing cost of living.
Low crime is entirely subjective, and I would wager everything I own that where I grew up in Chicago and even the suburb I went to High school in exposed me to much more crime than you have ever been directly exposed to.
Not worrying about being drafted, again I ask you why do you not bring this up about Gen X and only millennials?
I by no means am complaining and am certainly with you that Millennials have it very nice but your claims about not making financial sacrifices are flat out wrong. Age does not earn respect, experience and humility do. One you haven't proven yet and the later your post is laking.
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My starting salary was less than $10K. When I say you haven't sacrificed financially I'm talking about in comparison to others before you. The liquidity today, the ability to gain capital, didn't exist back in the day at the levels today. You have never experienced interest rates at 8% in your life, try dealing with 14% to 17% as the norm for several years and then being grateful when it dropped to 12% four 3 or 4 years straight. Inflation rates double digits late '70s, early 80's. We haven't seen it above 4% since 1991.
You don't have the lens of experience because you haven't been alive long enough to go through the ups and downs. You will, and then you can pass on the cranky wisdom to the next group that tells you how bad they have it.
We've had 9/11, which ushered in the age of terrorism (also called the age of anxiety), two wars that are still going on, a revival of anti-market authoritarianism across the globe, and the worst recession since the Great Depression at precisely the moment we were entering the workforce. Every generation has ups and downs. It's all sides. You're cranky, yes. Are you wise? Not remotely.
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For all your wisdom you still know nothing about the financial sacrifice of being in your 20s or even early 30s in this era. You're right, I live in a time where I haven't had to wait in lines for ages for gas, you claim I live in a time of full employment but forget that starting salaries have not increased in years to keep up with increasing cost of living.
Not to mention going to college basically guaranteed a job, and great business leaders got their start with notable companies with a history or philosophy degree. I had an older peer, in their 50s, tell me about how they took a lower salary in the early 80s to pursue a job they really felt passionate about while their friends took jobs for substantially higher. My starting salary, in a business position, 25 years later in 2008 was about $12K higher. And I can assure you COL increased mightily in that time.
Every generation makes things better for, and also F***s things up for latter generations, and then tells them they have no right to complain. Its been happening for centuries.
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I have two college-educated Millennial kids (31 and 30) who were raised by loving parents with decent means, and their experience/situation is far closer to what the Millennials on this board are saying than to the out-of-touch ramblings of cubbiechicos.
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Unless you were active duty or family of one in the Vietnam era what did one have to sacrifice?
And to answer your question directly, things like the oil embargo, spending on cold war programs instead of local programs, etc.had generational impacts.
YMMV, but I don't feel those things required the slightest bit of sacrifice of me. A few more cents for gas vs. getting shot and killed? Not remotely in the same ballpark.
The draft was still in place for Vietnam, unlike for the Gulf War, so the sacrifice was not voluntary. And WW II had ration books, victory gardens, etc. Sacrifice was shared by all.
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My generation had it tougher than your generation arguments never get old.
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My generation had it tougher than your generation arguments never get old.
Actually, my argument is "my generation had it incredibly easy".
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YMMV, but I don't feel those things required the slightest bit of sacrifice of me. A few more cents for gas vs. getting shot and killed? Not remotely in the same ballpark.
The draft was still in place for Vietnam, unlike for the Gulf War, so the sacrifice was not voluntary. And WW II had ration books, victory gardens, etc. Sacrifice was shared by all.
So your argument boils down to if you were born after 1972 you had it easy because there was no shooting war you were forced into?
Less than 5% of the US population served during the Vietnam era of which a third served in the Asiatic theater. Of the just over 9M active duty personnel in the Vietnam era, 25% were drafted. If WWII is the metric by which we are comparing sacrificing, the Vietnam era is significantly behind that.
Statistics aren't readily available but generally accepted is that somewhere between 1 and 2% of the US population served on active duty in the 80s and 90s. They weren't involved in one all encompassing shooting war but there was no doubt sacrifice.
Lastly, I'm simply comparing a generational experience that resulted in sacrifice by the generation in total not some aspect of it. The greatest generation not only endured WWII collectively but were raised in the Dust Bowl/Great Depression. Yes the Vietnam generation experienced Vietnam but as a "percentage" of it's experience it's significantly lower than WWII era, there were lots of other positives going on as well. The Gen Xers didn't have some big shooting war, but they experienced significant gas shortages, rampant inflation, significant expenditures in public finance to win the Cold War, etc. I'm not trying to say the Xers had it worse at all, simply saying you are dismissing that generation (and certainly the millennial generation) as some how having it easy compared to the Vietnam era is as ignorant as Chico's position that Gen X and/or Millennials are soft.
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My contention is that my generation, GenX, had it very easy. First of all, Vietnam was the Boomers, not GenX; we didn't come of age until it was well over. The Cold War? Mostly before our time, too, and the extent to which is wasn't, I don't see the big impact. Gas shortages? Mostly before our time and quite a brief period.
Personally, I don't consider any of things you listed-- public expenditures, brief inflationary periods, etc. to be anything other than brief inconveniences, and certainly not generational challenges. Heck, even the horrors of Disco were mostly before the time of any except the oldest of GenX. Again YMMV or hwo they impacted you.
But I take exceptional to you implying that I somewhere said GenXers or GenYers are soft. I didn't say or imply that. My contention is limited to saying that we GenXers faced little real adversity at a generational level.
EDIT: Sorry, I see you are pointing out that Chicos, not I, called them soft.
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My contention is that my generation, GenX, had it very easy. First of all, Vietnam was the Boomers, not GenX; we didn't come of age until it was well over. The Cold War? Mostly before our time, too, and the extent to which is wasn't, I don't see the big impact. Gas shortages? Mostly before our time and quite a brief period.
Personally, I don't consider any of things you listed-- public expenditures, brief inflationary periods, etc. to be anything other than brief inconveniences, and certainly not generational challenges. Heck, even the horrors of Disco were mostly before the time of any except the oldest of GenX. Again YMMV or hwo they impacted you.
But I take exceptional to you implying that I somewhere said GenXers or GenYers are soft. I didn't say or imply that. My contention is limited to saying that we GenXers faced little real adversity at a generational level.
EDIT: Sorry, I see you are pointing out that Chicos, not I, called them soft.
What time period are you defining Gen Xers? If I'm bounding it you are saying anyone born at best 1965 up to what 1980? I mean if you are saying anyone that was a young adult or an adult in the 80s, there was the AIDs crisis, Iran-Contra, Black Monday, the emergence of terrorism as a global issue (Pan-AM, Beirut, etc) and the Cold War carried on for the entire decade of the 80s. Inflation at the start of the 80s peaked at almost 15% which denied millions the ability to access credit and/or affordable housing in the late 70s/early 80s.
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What time period are you defining Gen Xers? If I'm bounding it you are saying anyone born at best 1965 up to what 1980? I mean if you are saying anyone that was a young adult or an adult in the 80s, there was the AIDs crisis, Iran-Contra, Black Monday, the emergence of terrorism as a global issue (Pan-AM, Beirut, etc) and the Cold War carried on for the entire decade of the 80s. Inflation at the start of the 80s peaked at almost 15% which denied millions the ability to access credit and/or affordable housing in the late 70s/early 80s.
Peak divorce rates as well. Many GenXers grew up in broken families.
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What time period are you defining Gen Xers? If I'm bounding it you are saying anyone born at best 1965 up to what 1980? I mean if you are saying anyone that was a young adult or an adult in the 80s, there was the AIDs crisis, Iran-Contra, Black Monday, the emergence of terrorism as a global issue (Pan-AM, Beirut, etc) and the Cold War carried on for the entire decade of the 80s. Inflation at the start of the 80s peaked at almost 15% which denied millions the ability to access credit and/or affordable housing in the late 70s/early 80s.
There was stuff, sure. But I think largely, Boomers had it easier than the greatest generation. Gen X ers had it easier than Boomers, and Millennials have it easier than gen x ers. And you could continue that trend back probably to the middle ages.
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What time period are you defining Gen Xers? If I'm bounding it you are saying anyone born at best 1965 up to what 1980? I mean if you are saying anyone that was a young adult or an adult in the 80s, there was the AIDs crisis, Iran-Contra, Black Monday, the emergence of terrorism as a global issue (Pan-AM, Beirut, etc) and the Cold War carried on for the entire decade of the 80s. Inflation at the start of the 80s peaked at almost 15% which denied millions the ability to access credit and/or affordable housing in the late 70s/early 80s.
Yes, generally described as 1965-1980. Not sure why it is fewer years than the definition for many other generations.
But of the issues you list, only the AIDs epidemic strikes me as particularly impactful. Iran-Contra? What was the impact?
Black Monday was barely a blip; stocks had run up very significantly and it was a correction to mean. Unless you panicked and sold, you had already recovered in two years.
Terrorism was a very minor issue during this timeframe, certainly vastly less in the public consciousness back then compared to now.
High interest rates? GenX was too young to be buying houses during that time. Maybe it affected us by having to live in apartments, but I hardly consider that a huge negative.
Cold War? I don't know, maybe. There was the fear that Reagan and a rotating cast of Russians would get into a nuke war, but that went away with Gorbachev and the fall of the Soviet Union, and before that there wasn't really much impact on day-to-day life.
I just don't see that any of those is remotely comparable to the social upheavals of the 60s when there were riots going on, and certainly not the Great Depression and WW II of the 30s and 40s.
Happily, I don't think GenXers ever had to pass tests like those.
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There was stuff, sure. But I think largely, Boomers had it easier than the greatest generation. Gen X ers had it easier than Boomers, and Millennials have it easier than gen x ers. And you could continue that trend back probably to the middle ages.
I agree and I’m thankful that is the case — the average persons life continues to get better/easier to fulfill our basic needs with every generation.
This by the way doesn’t mean life hasn’t gotten more complex or adversity is gone—it just changes.
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Useta trap around bearfoot in da snow at 5 am deliverin' da fookin' Sentinel befour school in da winter and den sweat and roast my jewels loadin' 40 ft. semis bye hand all sommer long. Chit, y'all don't no watt hard work is. Kids taday are two soft and cuddled, hey?
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High interest rates? GenX was too young to be buying houses during that time. Maybe it affected us by having to live in apartments, but I hardly consider that a huge negative.
Also bear in mind that when interest rates were hanging out in the low double digits, it wasn't unusual for average wages to jump 6%-8% per year. So while inflation was objectively a problem, that was to some extent balanced out by income increases and the benefits of those same interest rates on deposits and bonds, which are some of the most accessible investments. Again, I don't want to say it wasn't a problem, but I would argue that today's rock bottom interest rates actually reflect a much worse economic reality than 1980's inflation did.
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Useta trap around bearfoot in da snow at 5 am deliverin' da fookin' Sentinel befour school in da winter and den sweat and roast my jewels loadin' 40 ft. semis bye hand all sommer long. Chit, y'all don't no watt hard work is. Kids taday are two soft and cuddled, hey?
glad that you can now afford shoes eh?
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It was said back up in the thread, but the greatest part of all these millennial takes are that the older generation complains about the generation that they raised. The number 1 factor on how somebody turns out is their parents.
I work in education in a very economically diverse area, and deal with parents on a daily basis. The correlation between bad attitude students and their parents is nearly 1 to 1, and has very little to do with means.
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There was stuff, sure. But I think largely, Boomers had it easier than the greatest generation. Gen X ers had it easier than Boomers, and Millennials have it easier than gen x ers. And you could continue that trend back probably to the middle ages.
I think, physically, each generation has it easier than the one before it. But technology is the driver of everything now. Growing up now is much harder in every other aspect.
Politics rachets up fear. People want hope and change, but there is too much money to be made in the fear business. Our kids now grow up knowing that any day could be their last because that is what they are taught.
When I was a kid, we never had to worry about any of that. At 15, the only worries were what park is the next ball game at, and girls.
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Our kids now grow up knowing that any day could be their last because that is what they are taught.
When I was a kid, we never had to worry about any of that. At 15, the only worries were what park is the next ball game at, and girls.
This is a good point.
We live at the end of a cul de sac in suburbia ... and the woman across the street won't let her kids go out to play in the front yard because she thinks they'll be abducted.
That's extreme, of course, but it's not all that much from the norm.
Growing up, I had an idyllic life. As you said, brand, I'd leave the house after breakfast and often didn't come home till dinner; it was all about basketball or baseball or whatever. My kids (Millennials) growing up in Chicago much less freedom to come and go (although we gave them more freedom than a lot of their friends had). And when they have kids ... fuggettabout it. Everybody is afraid of everything now; danger lurks around every corner.
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danger lurks around every corner.
Yes I have a lot of skunks in my neighborhood too.
When I was a kid, we never had to worry about any of that. At 15, the only worries were what park is the next ball game at, and girls.
I don't know how old you are, Jock, but The Day After miniseries scared the ever-loving sh!t out of 12-year-old Barf.
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Politics rachets up fear. People want hope and change, but there is too much money political gain to be made in the fear business.
FIFY.
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I love these threads because there is nothing more useful than labeling an entire group of people.
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It was said back up in the thread, but the greatest part of all these millennial takes are that the older generation complains about the generation that they raised. The number 1 factor on how somebody turns out is their parents.
I work in education in a very economically diverse area, and deal with parents on a daily basis. The correlation between bad attitude students and their parents is nearly 1 to 1, and has very little to do with means.
I completely agree. The apple rarely falls far from the tree. Parents with poor morals and character tend to pass those behaviors onto their kids.
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My narrative is one of experience that stretches back far longer than yours. That is what age, wisdom and experience are. You live in a blessed time, with relatively low crime, tremendous opportunity, full employment, never having to wait hours to fuel your car, not worrying about being drafted to go to war, technology at your finger tips that we would only dream of.
Yes, my narrative is one of being alive much longer than you have. I was you long ago, and one day you will be me. Your experiences may be different, but as I tell my kids, you cannot believe how good you have it relative to other generations the last 50 to 75 years. Things are pretty damn great right now and have been for quite some time. You should appreciate it because you have missed out on a lot of the crap.
1. You assume that because you are old and have experience that you are wise. False.
2. A goal of every generation should be that the next one has an easier path. Why be resentful about it? And a computer and iPhone doesn't make life "easy". No matter their circumstances, young people (because they're young, not lazy or ungrateful) will struggle.
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Useta trap around bearfoot in da snow at 5 am deliverin' da fookin' Sentinel befour school in da winter and den sweat and roast my jewels loadin' 40 ft. semis bye hand all sommer long. Chit, y'all don't no watt hard work is. Kids taday are two soft and cuddled, hey?
Yeah?
Yeah.
So what?
So what? Let's dance.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/33ffa1dea5bb4f374b535edff271a409/tenor.gif)
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1. You assume that because you are old and have experience that you are wise. False.
2. A goal of every generation should be that the next one has an easier path. Why be resentful about it? And a computer and iPhone doesn't make life "easy". No matter their circumstances, young people (because they're young, not lazy or ungrateful) will struggle.
Very well said.
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Useta trap around bearfoot in da snow at 5 am deliverin' da fookin' Sentinel befour school in da winter and den sweat and roast my jewels loadin' 40 ft. semis bye hand all sommer long. Chit, y'all don't no watt hard work is. Kids taday are two soft and cuddled, hey?
You had it too easy, semi trailers are now 52 ft.
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1. You assume that because you are old and have experience that you are wise. False.
2. A goal of every generation should be that the next one has an easier path. Why be resentful about it? And a computer and iPhone doesn't make life "easy". No matter their circumstances, young people (because they're young, not lazy or ungrateful) will struggle.
You are right on number 1, it doesn't automatically mean that you become wise because of age. That is true.
We disagree on number two. Because of technology, there are young people today that are mega millionaires that never would have had that opportunity in the old days. We've always had child stars, but not self made YouTube stars of today. Recently read an article listing 40 kids that are millionaires under the age of 20. Or kids in college making billionaire companies up in their dorms like Zuckerberg, or Kalanick, and so many others.
And life is easier with today's technology, again we disagree. My daughter can apply for 50 Summer jobs on her iPhone in a few hours. Ten years ago, certain 25 years ago that would have taken a week, at least. Driving in the car, filling out applications, going to each business. Not any more. She has all the world's encyclopedias in the palm of her hand, at any moment of time. Yes, life is a lot easier with technology, if you use it right. She doesn't have to carry cash. She always has directions on her. Doesn't need a dime in her pocket to make a call. I can send her money and seconds later she has it. Do you remember the days of sending a check and it took a week to clear. Do people on this forum understand what I just said? It took a week when you got a check, you went to the bank and you had to wait 7 days for the money to clear. That is not a joke.
Stop the whining. The world is a great place to live right now. Low crime, jobs everywhere, low inflation, access to capital, technology unheard of. Go do something with it and stop complaining!
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You are right on number 1, it doesn't automatically mean that you become wise because of age. That is true.
We disagree on number two. Because of technology, there are young people today that are mega millionaires that never would have had that opportunity in the old days. We've always had child stars, but not self made YouTube stars of today. Recently read an article listing 40 kids that are millionaires under the age of 20. Or kids in college making billionaire companies up in their dorms like Zuckerberg, or Kalanick, and so many others.
And life is easier with today's technology, again we disagree. My daughter can apply for 50 Summer jobs on her iPhone in a few hours. Ten years ago, certain 25 years ago that would have taken a week, at least. Driving in the car, filling out applications, going to each business. Not any more. She has all the world's encyclopedias in the palm of her hand, at any moment of time. Yes, life is a lot easier with technology, if you use it right. She doesn't have to carry cash. She always has directions on her. Doesn't need a dime in her pocket to make a call. I can send her money and seconds later she has it. Do you remember the days of sending a check and it took a week to clear. Do people on this forum understand what I just said? It took a week when you got a check, you went to the bank and you had to wait 7 days for the money to clear. That is not a joke.
Stop the whining. The world is a great place to live right now. Low crime, jobs everywhere, low inflation, access to capital, technology unheard of. Go do something with it and stop complaining!
You do realize just like your daughter 100's of other applicants can do the same thing, making it exponentially harder to get an interview, even harder to get the job itself. So while it may have taken more manual work on the front end, your probability of it paying off was much higher. A person today may have to apply for an exponential number of jobs compared to previous generations to actually get hired. Technology is a blessing and a curse.
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Stop the whining. The world is a great place to live right now. Low crime, jobs everywhere, low inflation, access to capital, technology unheard of. Go do something with it and stop complaining!
3 day check clearance was the longest I remembered, but maybe it was longer.
Lower crime? Maybe where you live, but our experiment here has gone exactly how most of us here said it would....poorly. Crime up 12%, reported today by the Times. At my wife’s store they don’t even bother calling the cops any longer because it is such a waste of time, they won’t go through the effort.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-california-reforms-crime-20181220-story.html
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::)
3 day check clearance was the longest I remembered, but maybe it was longer.
Lower crime? Maybe where you live, but our experiment here has gone exactly how most of us here said it would....poorly. Crime up 12%, reported today by the Times. At my wife’s store they don’t even bother calling the cops any longer because it is such a waste of time, they won’t go through the effort.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-california-reforms-crime-20181220-story.html
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Everybody my age had it rough.
Every Millennial has had it so easy.
Generalizations are fun!
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You do realize just like your daughter 100's of other applicants can do the same thing, making it exponentially harder to get an interview, even harder to get the job itself. So while it may have taken more manual work on the front end, your probability of it paying off was much higher. A person today may have to apply for an exponential number of jobs compared to previous generations to actually get hired. Technology is a blessing and a curse.
With the opportunities today, if you are a good candidate your ability to show that to hundreds of employers with ease is a good thing and the cream will rise to the top.
The only curse I see, and it is real, are the workload products employers expect. Financial models expected to be turned around in hours, not days, but the tools are there to make it happen assuming the brains behind the logic in building them are done correctly.
Millenials have it pretty damn good, the complaining needs to stop.
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3 day check clearance was the longest I remembered, but maybe it was longer.
Lower crime? Maybe where you live, but our experiment here has gone exactly how most of us here said it would....poorly. Crime up 12%, reported today by the Times. At my wife’s store they don’t even bother calling the cops any longer because it is such a waste of time, they won’t go through the effort.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-california-reforms-crime-20181220-story.html
Generally speaking, lower crime than the 70's or 80's. The article says that though crime is up out there by 12%, it is still generally low. That is the comparison that I was making.
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3 day check clearance was the longest I remembered, but maybe it was longer.
Lower crime? Maybe where you live, but our experiment here has gone exactly how most of us here said it would....poorly. Crime up 12%, reported today by the Times. At my wife’s store they don’t even bother calling the cops any longer because it is such a waste of time, they won’t go through the effort.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-california-reforms-crime-20181220-story.html
Crime has lowered across the country. You continue to use your personal experience to extrapolate how things are across the country. And you are usually mistaken.
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With the opportunities today, if you are a good candidate your ability to show that to hundreds of employers with ease is a good thing and the cream will rise to the top.
The only curse I see, and it is real, are the workload products employers expect. Financial models expected to be turned around in hours, not days, but the tools are there to make it happen assuming the brains behind the logic in building them are done correctly.
Millenials have it pretty damn good, the complaining needs to stop.
All any Millennial has to do is show up and he or she will get millions of dollars thrown at them. Such an easy life!
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Inthe medical field if you are smart, ethical, conscientious, and have an outstanding work ethic you will succeed, however, my friends in corporate America that have these same qualifies complain about getting passed over for promotions by those that are better at “playing the game”. I have never had to deal with this corporate game. Is it real or are my friends feeding me a line of bs?
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Inthe medical field if you are smart, ethical, conscientious, and have an outstanding work ethic you will succeed, however, my friends in corporate America that have these same qualifies complain about getting passed over for promotions by those that are better at “playing the game”. I have never had to deal with this corporate game. Is it real or are my friends feeding me a line of bs?
I disagree with this. Not that you don't succeed with those qualities in medicine, but there is an equal number of providers "playing the game."
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Inthe medical field if you are smart, ethical, conscientious, and have an outstanding work ethic you will succeed, however, my friends in corporate America that have these same qualifies complain about getting passed over for promotions by those that are better at “playing the game”. I have never had to deal with this corporate game. Is it real or are my friends feeding me a line of bs?
I don't really even know what "playing the game" means. If it means going beyond just doing your job and making connections with others at the company, creatively solving problems by thinking outside your normal duties, etc. then yes...you are going to move ahead faster.
And it's been my experience those who *think* they are doing a really good job, oftentimes are simply average. They are working hard, getting their tasks completed, but aren't showing vision or creativity in their work.
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Millennials, like, suck.
I mean, man, they really, really suck.
Only old people know stuff because, ya know, we're really old.
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Crime has lowered across the country. You continue to use your personal experience to extrapolate how things are across the country. And you are usually mistaken.
Read what I said please. I said it may be lower where he lived, but here it is not. Could not h ave been clearer about what I wrote and the applicability to my location, not anyone else. 100% clear
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Millennials, like, suck.
I mean, man, they really, really suck.
Only old people know stuff because, ya know, we're really old.
Millenials don't suck. Smart people (book smart), a little short on the common sense part but that will come. Old people don't have all the answers, but old people have lived more life and have more experiences than younger people. That is a fact. I have great belief in millenials and their future, but they need to stop complaining. As sure as day follows night, millenials will screw over (to use their complaint) the generations that follow theirs. The patience people have is very short now. Promote me now. Give me my raise now. I want 50 days off vacation, and work from home, and and and and and. Good luck with that.
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Millenials don't suck. Smart people (book smart), a little short on the common sense part but that will come. Old people don't have all the answers, but old people have lived more life and have more experiences than younger people. That is a fact. I have great belief in millenials and their future, but they need to stop complaining. As sure as day follows night, millenials will screw over (to use their complaint) the generations that follow theirs. The patience people have is very short now. Promote me now. Give me my raise now. I want 50 days off vacation, and work from home, and and and and and. Good luck with that.
If only they had your wisdom ... they might even be able to spell Millennials.
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Inthe medical field if you are smart, ethical, conscientious, and have an outstanding work ethic you will succeed, however, my friends in corporate America that have these same qualifies complain about getting passed over for promotions by those that are better at “playing the game”. I have never had to deal with this corporate game. Is it real or are my friends feeding me a line of bs?
It's going to vary company to company but in my experience the higher someone climbs in Fortune 500 companies the better they are at managing up and much less likely to manage down.
Corporate America hasn't really figured out how to resolve the conflict between necessary hierarchy and the desire to be more egalitarian with the work force.
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1. You assume that because you are old and have experience that you are wise. False.
2. A goal of every generation should be that the next one has an easier path. Why be resentful about it? And a computer and iPhone doesn't make life "easy". No matter their circumstances, young people (because they're young, not lazy or ungrateful) will struggle.
WE ARE SOUNDING LIKE OUR PARENTS!!!
OK, all you boomers out there. We were just as obnoxious to the past generation. To some degree, we're getting our comeupance for what we did to the generation before us. Remember boomers, "Don't trust anyone over 30?" It wasn't a Millennial who said that.
The fact is, when you're young you're impatient. We all came out of college filled with knowledge and confident we can conquer the world. We knew better, or so we thought. The Millennials are us on steroids. They have more and better technology than most of us boomers ever dreamed of. They have access to information in seconds that it took weeks for us to fully gather and, to their credit, their decisions are better informed.
What they don't have, in many cases, is life lessons associated with everything from projects or investments gone bad to lost jobs or mergers and acquisitions. Too many do not understand that there is a view other than their own and that multiple constituencies within a firm can have accurate but conflicting views based on multiple perspectices to the same problem.
They'll get there and when they do, look out. The best of them will be far better leaders than our generation ever was.
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Inthe medical field if you are smart, ethical, conscientious, and have an outstanding work ethic you will succeed, however, my friends in corporate America that have these same qualifies complain about getting passed over for promotions by those that are better at “playing the game”. I have never had to deal with this corporate game. Is it real or are my friends feeding me a line of bs?
Started and still in the pharma field. Similar career trajectory with colleague and friend for a few years. Then the mergers come. Half the original company laid off. Business my job is in gets sold off to new company. Friend perseveres and all who remained are given considerable title and pay bumps. His boss leaves and they have no alternative in the chaotic merger structure and immediately promote him again. I myself persevere with new company at a pace I would deem acceptable but lagging far behind this friend. Right place right time is a thing in all business for sure. Sometimes things work out that way, especially if you do good work. (Also seen daughter of cfo hired out of college as a senior hr manager but that’s a different story)
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WE ARE SOUNDING LIKE OUR PARENTS!!!
OK, all you boomers out there. We were just as obnoxious to the past generation. To some degree, we're getting our comeupance for what we did to the generation before us. Remember boomers, "Don't trust anyone over 30?" It wasn't a Millennial who said that.
The fact is, when you're young you're impatient. We all came out of college filled with knowledge and confident we can conquer the world. We knew better, or so we thought. The Millennials are us on steroids. They have more and better technology than most of us boomers ever dreamed of. They have access to information in seconds that it took weeks for us to fully gather and, to their credit, their decisions are better informed.
What they don't have, in many cases, is life lessons associated with everything from projects or investments gone bad to lost jobs or mergers and acquisitions. Too many do not understand that there is a view other than their own and that multiple constituencies within a firm can have accurate but conflicting views based on multiple perspectices to the same problem.
They'll get there and when they do, look out. The best of them will be far better leaders than our generation ever was.
Yes, yes, and yes. The worst of them, hopefully do not crash and burn because they do have all these benefits we never had, but that doesn't guarantee success.
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Many comments here touch on the topics...
Millennials have no unions. Have no pensions. Have no houses that cost 20k. Have lagging wages. Etc.
Economically/financially, they are worse off.
I'll give up every technological advancement I have vs boomers at the same age for the financial stability they had.
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Crean sucks
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Many comments here touch on the topics...
Millennials have no unions. Have no pensions. Have no houses that cost 20k. Have lagging wages. Etc.
Economically/financially, they are worse off.
I'll give up every technological advancement I have vs boomers at the same age for the financial stability they had.
Financial stability is alive and well with segments of the millennial generation but it certainly isn't universal. It wasn't universal for boomers either, but I dont have a sense of whether the balance of stable vs unstable has changed considerably. I don't think it has but I don't have any stats around it
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Many comments here touch on the topics...
Millennials have no unions. Have no pensions. Have no houses that cost 20k. Have lagging wages. Etc.
Economically/financially, they are worse off.
I'll give up every technological advancement I have vs boomers at the same age for the financial stability they had.
How short people’s memories are. It’s as though no one remembers once upon a time where for several weeks we had almost 30 warships off the coast of Cuba, two dozen B-52’s just outside Soviet airspace, and over 100 ICBM’s prepped for immediate launch. And that was just the early 60’s.
Boy, I’d love to have the “financial” stability of the Boomers.
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How short people’s memories are. It’s as though no one remembers once upon a time where for several weeks we had almost 30 warships off the coast of Cuba, two dozen B-52’s just outside Soviet airspace, and over 100 ICBM’s prepped for immediate launch. And that was just the early 60’s.
Boy, I’d love to have the “financial” stability of the Boomers.
Yep. And then came that pesky Viet Nam thingy - with a military draft, no less.
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And I'd still make the trade.
Technology for solid wages, pensions, cheap education and affordable housing
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As a millennial I do think our generation is much more impatient than older generations when it comes to career advancement and buying homes that are too expensive for their income level.
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As a millennial I do think our generation is much more impatient than older generations when it comes to career advancement and buying homes that are too expensive for their income level.
Hasn’t been my experience nor that of my friends, colleagues, and acquaintances at all. You may just have irresponsible friends, which is a different problem than a generational one. GenX is certainly a problematic generation—they’ve been whining since the 80s and they’re still whining now that Millenials are passing them by!
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My 31-year-old son and his 31-year-old wife are visiting us now.
I have told them repeatedly that they are lazy, entitled losers because ... well ... Millennials.
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And I'd still make the trade.
Technology for solid wages, pensions, cheap education and affordable housing
You think housing was affordable back then? Relativity. You live in a world where cancer is cured at a much higher rate. Your life expectancy when you were born much higher than mine when I was born.
Pensions are gone, but we didn't have 401ks when I was growing up, and less than 20% even owned stocks back then. There is affordable housing out there, but it might not be in the location you want. We can't all live by the water and downtown. Guess what, we couldn't back in the day either.
Lower crime, better health, cleaner air, more job opportunities, better technology, you can get laid with a swipe of an app, better educated, but less patience.
That is it in a nutshell.
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You think housing was affordable back then? Relativity. You live in a world where cancer is cured at a much higher rate. Your life expectancy when you were born much higher than mine when I was born.
Pensions are gone, but we didn't have 401ks when I was growing up, and less than 20% even owned stocks back then. There is affordable housing out there, but it might not be in the location you want. We can't all live by the water and downtown. Guess what, we couldn't back in the day either.
Lower crime, better health, cleaner air, more job opportunities, better technology, you can get laid with a swipe of an app, better educated, but less patience.
That is it in a nutshell.
Got it. We're living in a utopia. I need to learn my place. There are zero cons to being under the age of 35 compared to previous generations.
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You think housing was affordable back then? Relativity. You live in a world where cancer is cured at a much higher rate. Your life expectancy when you were born much higher than mine when I was born.
Pensions are gone, but we didn't have 401ks when I was growing up, and less than 20% even owned stocks back then. There is affordable housing out there, but it might not be in the location you want. We can't all live by the water and downtown. Guess what, we couldn't back in the day either.
Lower crime, better health, cleaner air, more job opportunities, better technology, you can get laid with a swipe of an app, better educated, but less patience.
That is it in a nutshell.
Cheers to your generation who can be this drunk at 10:23 AM EST
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It's going to vary company to company but in my experience the higher someone climbs in Fortune 500 companies the better they are at managing up and much less likely to manage down.
Corporate America hasn't really figured out how to resolve the conflict between necessary hierarchy and the desire to be more egalitarian with the work force.
This is very accurate in my experience. "Playing the game" pretty much a synonym for "managing up".
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Maybe his daddy bought him "bone spurs."
^^^ ban dis gf individual
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And I'd still make the trade.
Technology for solid wages, pensions, cheap education and affordable housing
Nothing says financial stability like a 20% interest rate on a mortgage.
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Nothing says financial stability like a 20% interest rate on a mortgage.
:) These kids have no idea what it was like with unemployment double digits, interest rates in the high teens, standing in lines for several hours to get gasoline, worrying about being drafted. Yeah, it was awesome baby.
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nm
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Cheers to your generation who can be this drunk at 10:23 AM EST
Was not drunk, didn't even have a sip. What was inaccurate about my comments?
Air quality better now than then. Environment in general better.
You live longer now than then. Did you even get vaccinated for Polio like we did? No, because it was eradicated. Cancer survival rates infinitely better now than when I grew up.
Unemployment much better now than then
Inflation better now than then
Interest rates categorically better now than then
Technology categorically better now than then
Housing costs are market driven and relative to what people can pay. Yes, that may mean you have to wait to have all the bells and whistles where you live. The same thing we had to do, wait.
I wasn't drunk, nor were my comments incorrect. I'm sorry that you have all grown up in a world where a lot of things were handed to you and as parents we failed in that regard. You wanted a PS3, you got it. Smartphone, you got it. Not only did you get the smartphone, we demanded you have it for safety reasons. A new car when you were 16 years old, you got it (I refused on that one, not even a used car, but my kids friends were given that stuff).
A number of you grew up in a world where you click a button, swipe an app, and it was done. Mom and dad wanted to give you the best, and they tried and often did, much to the detriment of their children. My wife and I guilty of this, too. Pressure to do what all the other parents were doing. I'm sorry that patience was not taught.
You have it infinitely better today than your predecessors. Low crime. Solid economy. Better environment. Better technology. Low cost travel. Opportunities abound if you are willing to look for them and do the work, oh and be patient for your turn. Pretend it is a union and you don't have seniority if you wish to get your head around it.
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Maybe his daddy bought him "bone spurs."
You simply cannot help yourself, can you?
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Got it. We're living in a utopia. I need to learn my place. There are zero cons to being under the age of 35 compared to previous generations.
There are some cons, no generation lives in utopia nor did I or anyone say that. It doesn't change that your opportunities and the world you live in today is better than the one I grew up in. If you are a minority, much better. You can't appreciate it because you never lived it, which is why age, experience are important because we did live it. Though our memories may be faded at times, we can remember experiences that you have never dreamed of going through and pray don't resurface. By the same token my parents lived through WWII and I cannot imagine the horror they went through.
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:) These kids have no idea what it was like with unemployment double digits, interest rates in the high teens, standing in lines for several hours to get gasoline, worrying about being drafted. Yeah, it was awesome baby.
Have to say, I don't either. Except what I have heard from my parents.
But I have appreciation for all the things my parents and grandparents struggled through that I don't have to worry about or really even consider. It is great that I can complain that a 4.6% interest rate is high. And I hope that the world continues in this trajectory and my kids lives are easier in every way than mine has been.
My first house was more expensive than my parents, by quite a bit. But my first job out of MU paid me quite a bit more than what my parents made out of college.
Things aren't perfect now, but especially if you live in the US, and have the time and means to be posting on a basketball message board, well your life is better than 99.99999% of all the humanity that has lived before we have. Now, I understand that doesn't make you feel any better when you can't find a job, or the housing that you want. Struggling is part of the human experience. In my experience, the struggles we face now, on an overarching level, aren't the same as those who came before we did.
That, however, does not change the fact that the struggles that individuals face on a daily basis of reaching their goals, having their home and family, or whatever they want still aren't difficult. I'm just glad I don't have to face those struggles against the backdrop of complete economic turmoil or world wars. I'm glad that when I do have to face adversity, I have more resources available to me that those who came before I did probably couldn't even dream about.
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Have to say, I don't either. Except what I have heard from my parents.
But I have appreciation for all the things my parents and grandparents struggled through that I don't have to worry about or really even consider. It is great that I can complain that a 4.6% interest rate is high. And I hope that the world continues in this trajectory and my kids lives are easier in every way than mine has been.
My first house was more expensive than my parents, by quite a bit. But my first job out of MU paid me quite a bit more than what my parents made out of college.
Things aren't perfect now, but especially if you live in the US, and have the time and means to be posting on a basketball message board, well your life is better than 99.99999% of all the humanity that has lived before we have. Now, I understand that doesn't make you feel any better when you can't find a job, or the housing that you want. Struggling is part of the human experience. In my experience, the struggles we face now, on an overarching level, aren't the same as those who came before we did.
That, however, does not change the fact that the struggles that individuals face on a daily basis of reaching their goals, having their home and family, or whatever they want still aren't difficult. I'm just glad I don't have to face those struggles against the backdrop of complete economic turmoil or world wars. I'm glad that when I do have to face adversity, I have more resources available to me that those who came before I did probably couldn't even dream about.
That is fair, but those same struggles often existed before, too. I was in my mid 30's before buying our first house and it took the death of a parent leaving some money to us for it to happen.
I promise you all, it will happen. Practice patience. The fact that we old farts are living longer means we have to work longer, so the cycle has changed some, but this is also a country of amazing opportunity, especially if you are willing to move away from the comforts of your home town, even home state. Explore the opportunities, you will get yours, too. Keep at it. Stay positive.
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You simply cannot help yourself, can you?
1. It was from 16 days ago. Did you just hear about the Lindburgh baby, too?
2. A Millennial made me do it. They're all so lazy and enabled that they dig up old stuff and just re-post it. Oh wait ... you did that and you're not even a Millennial.
3. Don't take your cues from the worst poster on Scoop.
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I'll give up every technological advancement I have vs boomers at the same age for the financial stability they had.
Who is kidding whom?
I'd be happy to trade you the late 1970s! Interest rates were at third world levels and the highest they'd been since the industrial revolution in the United States. Fresh out of college, we had no money to invest and either paid cash or did without. We rented because we had no choice. Incidentally, just a few years later, my first mortgage had an interest rate of 12.75 percent -- and we thought that was a bargain.
Inflation bordering on hyperinflation. That was back when a 6 percent raise didn't keep pace with inflation!
Add to that the fact that 80 million of us were born between 1946 and 1964. We entered an economy that had not expanded enough to absorb us and would not expand until the tech boom began in the mid-1980s.
A dude named the Ayatollah (forgive my spelling) in Iran had held the country hostage and in the process sent petroleum prices through the roof. You ransomed your first-born for a tank of gasoline.
What that meant in plain english: when I was graduated from the Marquette University College of Journalism, there was like eight or nine grads for every open entry-level job in the field of communications. Guess who had the leverage in those salary negotiations? And, if you did not please someone, there was confidence in the employer that there were eight more of you piled up in a resume file in a hiring officer's drawer.
And I won't even talk about my parents, who were born in the heart of the Depression. My mother's extended family lived with her parents in a small bungalow in Northern Wisconsin because my grandparents were among the blessed in their hometown with good paying jobs.
We all face our challenges and the best of us are better and more compassionate people because of how we faced our environment.
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What that meant in plain english: when I was graduated from the Marquette University College of Journalism, there was like eight or nine grads for every open entry-level job in the field of communications. Guess who had the leverage in those salary negotiations? And, if you did not please someone, there was confidence in the employer that there were eight more of you piled up in a resume file in a hiring officer's drawer.
Not for nothing, how is that changed? Thats still an issue and worse as college costs have skyrocketed. The economy had room to expand to absorb all those educated new grads eventually. We have a substantial oversupply now and I don't know if the expansion to handle them will come.
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Not for nothing, how is that changed? Thats still an issue and worse as college costs have skyrocketed. The economy had room to expand to absorb all those educated new grads eventually. We have a substantial oversupply now and I don't know if the expansion to handle them will come.
Wags, in 1979, I doubt any of us could have predicted the information age that was coming. Ditto for the early 1980s. I can't predict what will happen across the next decade, but this country has a lot of ingenuity and we'll figure out something. We always do.
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Who is kidding whom?
I'd be happy to trade you the late 1970s! Interest rates were at third world levels and the highest they'd been since the industrial revolution in the United States. Fresh out of college, we had no money to invest and either paid cash or did without. We rented because we had no choice. Incidentally, just a few years later, my first mortgage had an interest rate of 12.75 percent -- and we thought that was a bargain.
Inflation bordering on hyperinflation. That was back when a 6 percent raise didn't keep pace with inflation!
Add to that the fact that 80 million of us were born between 1946 and 1964. We entered an economy that had not expanded enough to absorb us and would not expand until the tech boom began in the mid-1980s.
A dude named the Ayatollah (forgive my spelling) in Iran had held the country hostage and in the process sent petroleum prices through the roof. You ransomed your first-born for a tank of gasoline.
What that meant in plain english: when I was graduated from the Marquette University College of Journalism, there was like eight or nine grads for every open entry-level job in the field of communications. Guess who had the leverage in those salary negotiations? And, if you did not please someone, there was confidence in the employer that there were eight more of you piled up in a resume file in a hiring officer's drawer.
And I won't even talk about my parents, who were born in the heart of the Depression. My mother's extended family lived with her parents in a small bungalow in Northern Wisconsin because my grandparents were among the blessed in their hometown with good paying jobs.
We all face our challenges and the best of us are better and more compassionate people because of how we faced our environment.
Misery index. Off the charts. I was a young lad, but watched my parents struggle through it...both had their masters, my dad a scientist and it was not good. My kids are younger than millennials, but I work with many millennials. Most are pretty good, and I dare say some are even becoming somewhat like their parents now. Haha
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If life was so miserable for those my age and older, why do tens of millions of Americans my age and older say they want to turn back the clock to all those "great" days when life was simpler? What
white might be the answer to that one?
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If life was so miserable for those my age and older, why do tens of millions of Americans my age and older say they want to turn back the clock to all those "great" days when life was simpler? What white might be the answer to that one?
I think simpler times, when you could leave the front door unlocked, let the kids play until 10pm and not worry, when neighbors you actually knew their names, and the like. People often don’t like change, and simpler life attracts some. I miss those days. But it also depends when you want to go back to. My fondest memories were growing up in the 80’s and I loved it as did many.....just as many didn’t. I don’t hear a clamoring to go back to the 70’s, but I do hear the 50’s. So it depends. Your last comment, please explain what you mean by that.
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From my refrigerator magnet in year I was born.
(http://a63.tinypic.com/2z5w2rl.jpg)
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Not for nothing, how is that changed? Thats still an issue and worse as college costs have skyrocketed. The economy had room to expand to absorb all those educated new grads eventually. We have a substantial oversupply now and I don't know if the expansion to handle them will come.
Boomers retiring will resolve a lot of the oversupply problem. Boomers have been squatting on all the leadership roles for the last 10 years. When they retire, Gen X and old Millennials will move up creating the space for average millennials and such to move in etcetera
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I think simpler times, when you could leave the front door unlocked, let the kids play until 10pm and not worry, when neighbors you actually knew their names, and the like. People often don’t like change, and simpler life attracts some. I miss those days. But it also depends when you want to go back to. My fondest memories were growing up in the 80’s and I loved it as did many.....just as many didn’t. I don’t hear a clamoring to go back to the 70’s, but I do hear the 50’s. So it depends. Your last comment, please explain what you mean by that.
You know exactly what I mean, hoopy.
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Boomers retiring will resolve a lot of the oversupply problem. Boomers have been squatting on all the leadership roles for the last 10 years. When they retire, Gen X and old Millennials will move up creating the space for average millennials and such to move in etcetera
This. And once were in charge, we should send their sorry arses to Carrousel.
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Was not drunk, didn't even have a sip. What was inaccurate about my comments?
Air quality better now than then. Environment in general better.
You live longer now than then. Did you even get vaccinated for Polio like we did? No, because it was eradicated. Cancer survival rates infinitely better now than when I grew up.
Unemployment much better now than then
Inflation better now than then
Interest rates categorically better now than then
Technology categorically better now than then
Housing costs are market driven and relative to what people can pay. Yes, that may mean you have to wait to have all the bells and whistles where you live. The same thing we had to do, wait.
I wasn't drunk, nor were my comments incorrect. I'm sorry that you have all grown up in a world where a lot of things were handed to you and as parents we failed in that regard. You wanted a PS3, you got it. Smartphone, you got it. Not only did you get the smartphone, we demanded you have it for safety reasons. A new car when you were 16 years old, you got it (I refused on that one, not even a used car, but my kids friends were given that stuff).
A number of you grew up in a world where you click a button, swipe an app, and it was done. Mom and dad wanted to give you the best, and they tried and often did, much to the detriment of their children. My wife and I guilty of this, too. Pressure to do what all the other parents were doing. I'm sorry that patience was not taught.
You have it infinitely better today than your predecessors. Low crime. Solid economy. Better environment. Better technology. Low cost travel. Opportunities abound if you are willing to look for them and do the work, oh and be patient for your turn. Pretend it is a union and you don't have seniority if you wish to get your head around it.
Um...
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Um...
Not many of us have any idea about history. Technocrats, medical specialists, "communication" professionals, accountant/financial gurus, in other words, most M.U. grads of whatever age haven't a clue.
Our false God is technology. Technology creates the problems that technology then trys to solve with technology. It is a merry-go-round.
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If life was so miserable for those my age and older, why do tens of millions of Americans my age and older say they want to turn back the clock to all those "great" days when life was simpler? What white might be the answer to that one?
Because they see the world as they want it to be, not as it was.
I'd love to weigh a "few" pounds less than I do now. And, I'd like my hair back. I'd like the energy I had years ago too. But that's not the way we were made and being alive and kicking today beats the next best option.
Actually, I kinda like being where I am at today. My children are in their 20s and have grown into people with taste, feelings and opinions that are well-thought-out. We're having more fun than we deserve and one of the joys of being my age is that money woes are less a concern than they were in my 20s.
And, NO, Millennials you are not getting my job -- just yet. I'm earning my keep, so why should I surrender it to you!
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Air quality better now than then. Environment in general better.
You live longer now than then. Did you even get vaccinated for Polio like we did? No, because it was eradicated. Cancer survival rates infinitely better now than when I grew up.
Unemployment much better now than then
Inflation better now than then
Interest rates categorically better now than then
Technology categorically better now than then
Housing costs are market driven and relative to what people can pay. Yes, that may mean you have to wait to have all the bells and whistles where you live. The same thing we had to do, wait.
I wasn't drunk, nor were my comments incorrect. I'm sorry that you have all grown up in a world where a lot of things were handed to you and as parents we failed in that regard. You wanted a PS3, you got it. Smartphone, you got it. Not only did you get the smartphone, we demanded you have it for safety reasons. A new car when you were 16 years old, you got it (I refused on that one, not even a used car, but my kids friends were given that stuff).
A number of you grew up in a world where you click a button, swipe an app, and it was done. Mom and dad wanted to give you the best, and they tried and often did, much to the detriment of their children. My wife and I guilty of this, too. Pressure to do what all the other parents were doing. I'm sorry that patience was not taught.
You have it infinitely better today than your predecessors. Low crime. Solid economy. Better environment. Better technology. Low cost travel. Opportunities abound if you are willing to look for them and do the work, oh and be patient for your turn. Pretend it is a union and you don't have seniority if you wish to get your head around it.
First two lines, airquality and environment. Air quality is extremely comparable to where is was when you were a kid. And was actually worse for millennials growing up. It is now considerably better.
Age expectation. How does that have any reflection on how difficult it is to grow up? You realistically don't feel the effects of that till the age you're approaching now.
Vaccines, are you an idiot? Outside of the psycho contingent of course we're still vaccinated, eradicated doesn't mean it's no longer a thing it means that it's statistically so low that it's eradicated.
Interest and inflation you win.
Technology is relative, the microwave and TV were no less mind blowing and revolutionary than smart phones. But you win
Housing, I'm looking at houses to flip when I return to Chicago and still looking at nearly 200k unless I want to flip in Austin or lawndale. So don't go on about bells and whistles, the mean price has skyrocketed for general crap
Regarding all wants and needs, if you're upset about this then you have to acknowledge a few things. First, it was your generations wish to spoil your kids and general lack of understanding how to tell a kid no.
I was in high school for the original iPhone release, they were not common place till I was halfway through college, and the concept of swiping for everything another year after that. Your criticism would be better served against Gen Z as they would've been the group truly growing up with all this crap you mentioned.
Regarding crime, where did you grow up? Because I've heard my friends parents and uncles of mine from places like Naperville and Lauderdale Lakes respectively mention this. Honestly if you weren't in a place where there actually was crime then it's not relevant to you. It's like someone from those places talking about the CTA being better now, it wasn't something that effected you anyways.
I'm not claiming that we've had it hard only that you like to use a lot of arguments that don't actually have any relevance to the way you grew up and like to stereotype millennials. Finally, I think that your biggest frustrations are actually those of Gen Z which started in the mid 90s. Those are the kids that actually grew up with smart phones, fancy game systems, apps everywhere, etc. millennials had dial up, flip phones and n64.
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From my refrigerator magnet in year I was born.
(http://a63.tinypic.com/2z5w2rl.jpg)
This illustrates how much harder things have gotten. Back then, the average NEW home price was less than 2x the average income.
In the US today, the average income is about $60k and the average home is about $200k, more than 3x the cost of average income. Wage growth has not kept up with costs.
Add that to health care costs and student loans, you can see how much harder it is for a worker in their 20s and 30s to achieve the middle class dream of home ownership.
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I think simpler times, when you could leave the front door unlocked, let the kids play until 10pm and not worry, when neighbors you actually knew their names, and the like. People often don’t like change, and simpler life attracts some. I miss those days. But it also depends when you want to go back to. My fondest memories were growing up in the 80’s and I loved it as did many.....just as many didn’t. I don’t hear a clamoring to go back to the 70’s, but I do hear the 50’s. So it depends. Your last comment, please explain what you mean by that.
Ugh.
Chicos is back to pining for the good ole days that never actually existed mode.
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Not many of us have any idea about history. Technocrats, medical specialists, "communication" professionals, accountant/financial gurus, in other words, most M.U. grads of whatever age haven't a clue.
Our false God is technology. Technology creates the problems that technology then trys to solve with technology. It is a merry-go-round.
"Technology" is, and always has been, merely a tool. No more than that.
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I'm not claiming that we've had it hard only that you like to use a lot of arguments that don't actually have any relevance to the way you grew up and like to stereotype millennials. Finally, I think that your biggest frustrations are actually those of Gen Z which started in the mid 90s. Those are the kids that actually grew up with smart phones, fancy game systems, apps everywhere, etc. millennials had dial up, flip phones and n64.
Superb point.
I think lots of older folks pile everybody younger than 40 in the same (inaccurate) generalization.
My kids, 32 and 31, were not coddled, did not get their first smartphones until long after they had left our nest, read books, did not have video game systems, did not have TVs in their bedrooms, had to get themselves to school, didn't get driver's licenses until they were 18+, were not given cars (or even use of cars very often), did not get allowance (they were expected to do chores), did not receive mountains of Xmas gifts, didn't take luxury vacations with us, etc, etc, etc. My kids grew up in a 1,200-square-foot house with 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. The only AC unit was in the master BR, so on the really hot nights, we'd pull their mattresses onto our floor so we could all sleep in comfort.
We did pay for their college educations; rather than give them all kinds of crap they didn't need, we put our extra money toward assuring they wouldn't face piles of student-loan debt. But then again, my parents paid for my college education, too.
That was the lavish upbringing our Millennials had. It was quite similar to the one I had decades earlier. I was a happy kid. So were they.
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Sounds like y'all had it damn nice compared to many others.
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If life was so miserable for those my age and older, why do tens of millions of Americans my age and older say they want to turn back the clock to all those "great" days when life was simpler? What white might be the answer to that one?
Mike - IMO comparing "life" generation to generation is a fool's errand. Obviously there has been progress, especially for those marginalized and discriminated against - and that's good.
But in most cases people choose happiness or misery. Once they make their choice there are plenty of circumstances they can use to justify it.
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Superb point.
I think lots of older folks pile everybody younger than 40 in the same (inaccurate) generalization.
My kids, 32 and 31, were not coddled, did not get their first smartphones until long after they had left our nest, read books, did not have video game systems, did not have TVs in their bedrooms, had to get themselves to school, didn't get driver's licenses until they were 18+, were not given cars (or even use of cars very often), did not get allowance (they were expected to do chores), did not receive mountains of Xmas gifts, didn't take luxury vacations with us, etc, etc, etc. My kids grew up in a 1,200-square-foot house with 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. The only AC unit was in the master BR, so on the really hot nights, we'd pull their mattresses onto our floor so we could all sleep in comfort.
We did pay for their college educations; rather than give them all kinds of crap they didn't need, we put our extra money toward assuring they wouldn't face piles of student-loan debt. But then again, my parents paid for my college education, too.
That was the lavish upbringing our Millennials had. It was quite similar to the one I had decades earlier. I was a happy kid. So were they.
I'm 32, and while we had a bigger house (4 bed 2 bath), this sounds pretty similar to my upbringing with my younger sister. We did get an original Nintendo (the one that originally came out in the mid 80s) for Christmas one year, but that was in like 1996 after the Nintendo 64 had come out. We were 2 video game generations behind, but I didn't care.
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But in most cases people choose happiness or misery. Once they make their choice there are plenty of circumstances they can use to justify it.
+1,000
I think this should be in huge, massive flashing letters. I have friends who are very well off and comfortable but do nothing but complain about what they don't have or what others get. They did a study that found most people would be happier if their neighbors made less than they do than if they got a raise that left them below what their neighbors make. That's just ridiculous.
Happiness doesn't come from what you have, it comes from the life you live. I was happy when I was scraping by on $17,000 per year out of college and I'm don't think I'm any happier now making 5x that. I don't think about what my neighbors, friends, or family have that I don't.
I think the vast majority of unhappy people I've met have decided to be that way.
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You know exactly what I mean, hoopy.
No, I don't. Please explain.
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Ugh.
Chicos is back to pining for the good ole days that never actually existed mode.
Depends on the topic. In some cases, better. Some cases worse. People have brought up both examples here. I tend to agree that housing was cheaper back then than it is today, one of the reasons why I posted the magnet of stats. Education spending was lower, taxes were lower, etc. But when you start to create a state with lots more goodies, it drives up costs in taxes, fees, etc. That's the tradeoff.
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"Technology" is, and always has been, merely a tool. No more than that.
Don't tools advance society? The wheel, the printing press, the microchip, sword, gun power, fish hook, pencil, eyeglasses, etc? Feels like you are underselling it. Advancement in tools have meant people no longer die in their 30's, can solve difficult problems, protect and feed themselves, share information, provide light to work at night, all simple stuff that we take for granted....that's not even the high end stuff.
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Pick a career you enjoy and then you won’t worry about retirement so much. Stop chasing money, and find your passion.
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Not many of us have any idea about history. Technocrats, medical specialists, "communication" professionals, accountant/financial gurus, in other words, most M.U. grads of whatever age haven't a clue.
Our false God is technology. Technology creates the problems that technology then trys to solve with technology. It is a merry-go-round.
I'm not sure why you quoted me.
I was simply pointing out the craziness that apparently thinks we don't still vaccinate for polio.
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And, NO, Millennials you are not getting my job -- just yet. I'm earning my keep, so why should I surrender it to you!
Until you are deemed to expensive to do a job someone else will do for 2/3 the salary. As you see now in the Chicago area with McDonalds and Kraft moving their offices.
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I'm not sure why you quoted me.
I was simply pointing out the craziness that apparently thinks we don't still vaccinate for polio.
I'm guessing he meant small pox or something else as polio vaccine still given. My kids are in their teens, but received it as do most US citizens to this day. Small Pox vaccines was stopped when I was a kid, but because I lived on and off in Central and South America, I recall we had to get those and maybe boosters....can't recall.
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+1,000
I think this should be in huge, massive flashing letters. I have friends who are very well off and comfortable but do nothing but complain about what they don't have or what others get. They did a study that found most people would be happier if their neighbors made less than they do than if they got a raise that left them below what their neighbors make. That's just ridiculous.
Happiness doesn't come from what you have, it comes from the life you live. I was happy when I was scraping by on $17,000 per year out of college and I'm don't think I'm any happier now making 5x that. I don't think about what my neighbors, friends, or family have that I don't.
I think the vast majority of unhappy people I've met have decided to be that way.
Brew - you have discovered this most important truth as a young man. This is rare - I couldn't be happier for you!
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Happiness doesn't come from what you have, it comes from the life you live. I was happy when I was scraping by on $17,000 per year out of college and I'm don't think I'm any happier now making 5x that.
Dang, u need a raise (nh)
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+1,000
I think this should be in huge, massive flashing letters. I have friends who are very well off and comfortable but do nothing but complain about what they don't have or what others get. They did a study that found most people would be happier if their neighbors made less than they do than if they got a raise that left them below what their neighbors make. That's just ridiculous.
Happiness doesn't come from what you have, it comes from the life you live. I was happy when I was scraping by on $17,000 per year out of college and I'm don't think I'm any happier now making 5x that. I don't think about what my neighbors, friends, or family have that I don't.
I think the vast majority of unhappy people I've met have decided to be that way.
My wife and I speak of this often. We were sometimes happiest when I made $18K from Marquette with zero benefits and worked 80 hours a week, no weekends off, almost three months in a row. Of course after that came kids, mortgages, nice things but also many insane pressures, too.
Your words are strong here. The trap can be that you get used to the nice things, and it is hard to go back if jobs take a turn, or what have you. A strong family can help there, and a support system.
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+1,000
I think this should be in huge, massive flashing letters. I have friends who are very well off and comfortable but do nothing but complain about what they don't have or what others get. They did a study that found most people would be happier if their neighbors made less than they do than if they got a raise that left them below what their neighbors make. That's just ridiculous.
Happiness doesn't come from what you have, it comes from the life you live. I was happy when I was scraping by on $17,000 per year out of college and I'm don't think I'm any happier now making 5x that. I don't think about what my neighbors, friends, or family have that I don't.
I think the vast majority of unhappy people I've met have decided to be that way.
Just another underpaid civil servant. And I agree, a significant number of unhappy people choose it.
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I'm guessing he meant small pox or something else as polio vaccine still given. My kids are in their teens, but received it as do most US citizens to this day. Small Pox vaccines was stopped when I was a kid, but because I lived on and off in Central and South America, I recall we had to get those and maybe boosters....can't recall.
Chicos is "guessing" what WarriorDad means...
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gwTCtGv_dkg/hqdefault.jpg)
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Chicos is "guessing" what WarriorDad....
Can’t read his mind, but laugh heartily at your conspiracy notions.
Happy New Year
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Until you are deemed to expensive to do a job someone else will do for 2/3 the salary. As you see now in the Chicago area with McDonalds and Kraft moving their offices.
LOL!
Let's just say there are reasons why that's not going to happen. It's not that I'm so damn good or my Millennials don't measure up. It's just not going to happen. Trust me.
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But in most cases people choose happiness or misery. Once they make their choice there are plenty of circumstances they can use to justify it.
This is spot on. I always say that if I ever write my memoirs, the word "lucky" will be in the title. I know I've been lucky, and my kids have been, too.
I have friends who are very well off and comfortable but do nothing but complain about what they don't have or what others get. Happiness doesn't come from what you have, it comes from the life you live. I was happy when I was scraping by on $17,000 per year out of college and I'm don't think I'm any happier now making 5x that. I don't think about what my neighbors, friends, or family have that I don't. I think the vast majority of unhappy people I've met have decided to be that way.
Love this post, brew. It kinda goes to why I occasionally express frustration at the obviously joyless attitude Scoopers like muguru and willie have. To me, being happy and optimistic is so much better than the alternative.
Every once in awhile, my wife and I look back at the pittance we made in our first year or two out of college and recall fondly how happy we were then. Maybe it's because we didn't have real responsibilities -- i.e. kids!
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Sounds like y'all had it damn nice compared to many others.
I did. And I wasn't complaining.
I was a lucky kid, I was a lucky young adult, and now I'm a lucky almost-60-year-old guy.
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From my refrigerator magnet in year I was born.
(http://a63.tinypic.com/2z5w2rl.jpg)
Your car lasted about four years before it fell apart from poor design. It was extremely unsafe compared to what we have today and probably rusted out in two years. Oh, and besides being a gas hog, it probably emitted 100x the level of noxious gases that today's car does.
The 35 cent per gallon gas was priced higher on an inflation adjusted basis than it is today.
Same for that 23 cent a loaf bread.
That new house probably was a mid-century modern without granite countertops, hardwood floors or jetted tubs. Worse yet, the plumbing fixtures might have been earth tone -- or worse, pink!
We had a war going on, in case you forgot, in Vietnam. One of the biggest years during that war for casualties.
We made a Mickey Mouse watch with our Vice President's face on it because he was such a joke. And, that's the vice president who was forced to resign for taking bribes from roadbuilders seeking contracts in the State of Maryland just a few short years later.
President Nixon went on to conspire to commit burglary and obstruct justice. He had a secret plan to end the war in Vietnam which was so secret that it took President Nixon four years to remember it!
As I said earlier, people remember things the way they want to remember them. We did land men on the moon for the first time that year. And I did sit next to the best-looking redhead in my class that fall! Aaahh, the memories!
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Dgies
Correct, which is why I said my favorite time was the 80’s, I was a baby in 69. Doesn’t matter what decade one pulls out, someone somewhere will be outraged by something that happened. Lots of miserable people out there. Trade offs exist throughout, adapt or die. So great things about today, some not so great things about today. Same can be said of the past.
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First two lines, airquality and environment. Air quality is extremely comparable to where is was when you were a kid. And was actually worse for millennials growing up. It is now considerably better.
Age expectation. How does that have any reflection on how difficult it is to grow up? You realistically don't feel the effects of that till the age you're approaching now.
Vaccines, are you an idiot? Outside of the psycho contingent of course we're still vaccinated, eradicated doesn't mean it's no longer a thing it means that it's statistically so low that it's eradicated.
Interest and inflation you win.
Technology is relative, the microwave and TV were no less mind blowing and revolutionary than smart phones. But you win
Housing, I'm looking at houses to flip when I return to Chicago and still looking at nearly 200k unless I want to flip in Austin or lawndale. So don't go on about bells and whistles, the mean price has skyrocketed for general crap
Regarding all wants and needs, if you're upset about this then you have to acknowledge a few things. First, it was your generations wish to spoil your kids and general lack of understanding how to tell a kid no.
I was in high school for the original iPhone release, they were not common place till I was halfway through college, and the concept of swiping for everything another year after that. Your criticism would be better served against Gen Z as they would've been the group truly growing up with all this crap you mentioned.
Regarding crime, where did you grow up? Because I've heard my friends parents and uncles of mine from places like Naperville and Lauderdale Lakes respectively mention this. Honestly if you weren't in a place where there actually was crime then it's not relevant to you. It's like someone from those places talking about the CTA being better now, it wasn't something that effected you anyways.
I'm not claiming that we've had it hard only that you like to use a lot of arguments that don't actually have any relevance to the way you grew up and like to stereotype millennials. Finally, I think that your biggest frustrations are actually those of Gen Z which started in the mid 90s. Those are the kids that actually grew up with smart phones, fancy game systems, apps everywhere, etc. millennials had dial up, flip phones and n64.
Air quality and water quality are demonstrably better today than I was a kid. It is not close. Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, name the city. 98% better per the EPA and NOAA.
Vaccines, I am all for them. But we don't do some we used to because the disease has been wiped out. I said Polio, which was a mistake. The polio vaccine is not done like it use to which left a bad scar on the arm, but the right example is small pox. All of us kids were vaccinated for small pox, but I recall in the late 1970's when the public announcement was made they were stopping. The virus was gone.
Microwave and TV may have been mindblowing, but heating a Swanson's frozen dinner vs having the world at your finger tips and the power to do so much is exponentially different.
The pricing of houses has gone up, because people are willing to pay for them and because they have the assets to do so. If they didn't, the market couldn't sustain itself.
I agree, we gave our kids too much and didn't say no. We were guilted into giving them everything and saying it would be wonderful for them. We created a generation of entitlement.
Crime, all you have to do is look at the FBI crime reports for the 1960's and 1970's compared to today. 2010 to 2017, on average in this country 15,000 murders per year with over 320 million people In the 1970's, the murder average was 19,000 a year with a population average of 215 million people. Do the math. http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
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I'm guessing he meant small pox or something else as polio vaccine still given. My kids are in their teens, but received it as do most US citizens to this day. Small Pox vaccines was stopped when I was a kid, but because I lived on and off in Central and South America, I recall we had to get those and maybe boosters....can't recall.
Yes, meant small pox. Ended in the late 1970's, it was a huge global story. No more vaccinations because the disease was eliminated. People my age were vaccinated for the disease, but for 40 years no kids in this country have been.
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Air quality and water quality are demonstrably better today than I was a kid. It is not close. Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, name the city. 98% better per the EPA and NOAA.
Vaccines, I am all for them. But we don't do some we used to because the disease has been wiped out. I said Polio, which was a mistake. The polio vaccine is not done like it use to which left a bad scar on the arm, but the right example is small pox. All of us kids were vaccinated for small pox, but I recall in the late 1970's when the public announcement was made they were stopping. The virus was gone.
Microwave and TV may have been mindblowing, but heating a Swanson's frozen dinner vs having the world at your finger tips and the power to do so much is exponentially different.
The pricing of houses has gone up, because people are willing to pay for them and because they have the assets to do so. If they didn't, the market couldn't sustain itself.
I agree, we gave our kids too much and didn't say no. We were guilted into giving them everything and saying it would be wonderful for them. We created a generation of entitlement.
Crime, all you have to do is look at the FBI crime reports for the 1960's and 1970's compared to today. 2010 to 2017, on average in this country 15,000 murders per year with over 320 million people In the 1970's, the murder average was 19,000 a year with a population average of 215 million people. Do the math. http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
Today has just as much baring to "growing up" for millenials which ended in 96 as it does to your generation. now to be fair, the reference point is purely SO2 that I am pointing to as opposed to older more traditional pollutants. But again you fail to realize that millenials aren't "growing up" today they're adults now so you're hating the wrong generation.
https://ourworldindata.org/air-pollution
Next, re the polio vaccine, my dad and mum both were vaccinated and both lack any scars, you may want to see a doctor if you have keloid scaring or you had a poor injector. I'm sure getting that extra shot really effected your life drastically though as opposed to the millennials that do not. This is a weak argument and just another talking point for you to hate the generation.
Again, you aren't quite understanding what millenial is vs what Generation Z is. I was born in 1991, my family had one computer with dial up till I was a junior in High School. Note, no smart phone, no laptops for all, and iPads were still years away yet. Your argument about millenials having the world at their finger tips seems to be again focused more toward Gen Z.
I can do the math just fine regarding crime, but you didn't answer my question about your specifically. If you had classmates shot and killed in your high schools, like I did, or have asked a mutual friend how someones doing and found out classmates have joined gangs, or have a classmate doing time in Bali for stuffing his girlfriend's mum in a suitcase after killing her then I'll respect your claim about crime back then but otherwise crime is a subjective measure. Ask yourself if growing up where there was no crime when the country had higher rates vs growing up where there's even medium crime when there's lower rates effects which individual from respective generations more.
Again, I reiterate my point that you don't seem to grasp which generation you actually disdain. I don't claim that we had it harder (minus cost of living and loans) but only that you have given a very poor argument.
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I agree, we gave our kids too much and didn't say no. We were guilted into giving them everything and saying it would be wonderful for them. We created a generation of entitlement.
Nope, that’s just your crappy parenting. Don’t project it on a whole generation because you screwed up.
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Nope, that’s just your crappy parenting. Don’t project it on a whole generation because you screwed up.
+1
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Anybody who doesn't know how to say no to their kid is a crappy parent.
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Again, I reiterate my point that you don't seem to grasp which generation you actually disdain. I don't claim that we had it harder (minus cost of living and loans) but only that you have given a very poor argument.
I don't disdain any generation. I'm saying Millenials, Gen Z, have it much better than we did. I'm not one to go back and say how great life was back in my day. If anything, I wish I was starting out 25 years ago, or today. The complaining about how bad it is, you don't know what you are talking about because you didn't live back then. How can someone that has lived the last 65 to 70 years not have a better grasp of those 65 to 70 years than someone who has only lived half that time? Let's use common sense. Yes, I am lumping Gen Z along with Millenials and others. You do not have any idea how much better you have it.
Crime
Economy
Technology
Environment
Opportunities
Travel
Disease prevention
Healthcare improvements
No draft or wars killing or maiming our citizens with massive casualties
The list is endless. No disdain, but have some awareness of how great you have it. Want to know why my generation and generations older than mine shake our heads at some of the comments coming out of those that came after? It is because we have lived life, we have experiences you don't have, and we shake our heads at how good you have it and don't realize. No patience. Constant whinging and blaming. Suck it up, we'll be dead soon enough and you can unnatural carnal knowledge over the country as you accused us of doing and then the next generation that has it even better can tell you how evil you were.
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Nope, that’s just your crappy parenting. Don’t project it on a whole generation because you screwed up.
Didn't say no enough as a generation would be a better way of stating it. As a society, we enabled a generation.
http://time.com/3154186/millennials-selfish-entitled-helicopter-parenting/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jmaureenhenderson/2013/01/07/why-entitled-millennials-and-their-enabling-boomer-parents-just-cant-quit-each-other/#49186098264e
https://www.chronicle.com/article/Managing-Millennial-Parents/130146
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lol.
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I don't disdain any generation. I'm saying Millenials, Gen Z, have it much better than we did. I'm not one to go back and say how great life was back in my day. If anything, I wish I was starting out 25 years ago, or today. The complaining about how bad it is, you don't know what you are talking about because you didn't live back then. How can someone that has lived the last 65 to 70 years not have a better grasp of those 65 to 70 years than someone who has only lived half that time? Let's use common sense. Yes, I am lumping Gen Z along with Millenials and others. You do not have any idea how much better you have it.
Crime
Economy
Technology
Environment
Opportunities
Travel
Disease prevention
Healthcare improvements
No draft or wars killing or maiming our citizens with massive casualties
The list is endless. No disdain, but have some awareness of how great you have it. Want to know why my generation and generations older than mine shake our heads at some of the comments coming out of those that came after? It is because we have lived life, we have experiences you don't have, and we shake our heads at how good you have it and don't realize. No patience. Constant whinging and blaming. Suck it up, we'll be dead soon enough and you can unnatural carnal knowledge over the country as you accused us of doing and then the next generation that has it even better can tell you how evil you were.
You don't disdain any generation? Could have fooled me.
You're right regarding life experience. But if it is true, then so is the fact that everything you perceive about growing up in latter generations is not from experience. You've never had 200K in loans, college degrees mattered exponentially more back then than today, you've never " had to go to college" in order to be successful. These are things that you can observe but for all your observation cannot experience.
You consistently think that I am claiming my generation had it as hard or harder than yours. I am not, I am defending against some of your more outlandish claims.
At least you admit you just lump everybody together who was born after 1980. Next step is seeing how stupid it is to combine someone's childhood then with a kid who's in jr high right now.
Way to gloss over crime again mr experience. I'd like to know all about your first hand experience with it growing up because again so many of your generation are quick to mention that argument and yet never had any experience with it near them.
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Didn't say no enough as a generation would be a better way of stating it. As a society, we enabled a generation.
Oh, stop.
The Millennials are and will be fine.
Just like Gen X and the Baby Boomers and every other generation needlessly overgeneralized, stereotyped and besmirched by cranks from prior generations.
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Didn't say no enough as a generation would be a better way of stating it. As a society, we enabled a generation.
Highly unlikely that they will be more narcissistic and self righteous than their parents.
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If things are so much better now, why do we need to make America great again?
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If things are so much better now, why do we need to make America great again?
Great America is still going strong, but overall, it has been on something of a decline. I blame Wisconsin Dells.
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Things aren't better or worse, they're different.
We had less stuff/technology in our youth, for sure. I don't know if that's a bad thing. I think kids today are able to do amazing things because of the technology, but have lost some ability to meaningfully connect with other people, which may make them less happy in the long run. When we were young, you had to seek out other people, and you were more accepting of other people, because you needed other people just to not be bored out of your mind, if nothing else. I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of people who really dislike each other on this board would be very friendly with each other if they had met and talked and argued like we did a long time ago.
The millennials face challenges, just like we did, they're just different challenges. Whether they're better or worse depends on your POV. I think if you dropped millennials into a time machine and forced them to live like we did 40-50 years ago they would not think it was better at all. I also think if you pushed our 18 year old selves suddenly 40-50 years ahead we wouldn't like it much, either.
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I don't disdain any generation. I'm saying Millenials, Gen Z, have it much better than we did. I'm not one to go back and say how great life was back in my day. If anything, I wish I was starting out 25 years ago, or today. The complaining about how bad it is, you don't know what you are talking about because you didn't live back then. How can someone that has lived the last 65 to 70 years not have a better grasp of those 65 to 70 years than someone who has only lived half that time? Let's use common sense. Yes, I am lumping Gen Z along with Millenials and others. You do not have any idea how much better you have it.
Crime
Economy
Technology
Environment
Opportunities
Travel
Disease prevention
Healthcare improvements
No draft or wars killing or maiming our citizens with massive casualties
The list is endless. No disdain, but have some awareness of how great you have it. Want to know why my generation and generations older than mine shake our heads at some of the comments coming out of those that came after? It is because we have lived life, we have experiences you don't have, and we shake our heads at how good you have it and don't realize. No patience. Constant whinging and blaming. Suck it up, we'll be dead soon enough and you can unnatural carnal knowledge over the country as you accused us of doing and then the next generation that has it even better can tell you how evil you were.
Although I agree with a lot of what you've said here, I've got to disagree on the economy/opportunities part. Post-WWII, we and others had thoroughly decimated many competing industrial economies, Europe was in shambles, and when the rules were rewritten we had basically ensured a couple of booming decades for US manufacturing and jobs. That wasn't because people generally were better then, smarter, worked harder, or anything like that (though this is still what we hear today - the generation now doesn't know how to work hard and support their family).
One was blessed to be born in or around that time frame. You could get a job doing menial manufacturing work and support an entire family, plus receive a pension. You didn't necessarily need an education or knowledge to support an entire family. While this can still happen today, it's more of something that might be a feel good story on the news or a movie, as opposed to something that defined a generation.
One could work at McDonald's (or the like) over a short summer break and pay for an entire year's worth of tuition. I still hear this from that generation today, kids just don't want to work to pay for it. Find me a summer job that pays $60+ per hour and is easily gotten. I don't know many. You couldn't even earn enough at McDonald's over a year of full time work to pay the cost of tuition alone, let alone all the other expenses...
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If things are so much better now, why do we need to make America great again?
They aren't better now, we should make them better. :) If they were great, wouldn't you still want to make them better if you could? Progress, baby, progress.
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I don't disdain any generation. I'm saying Millenials, Gen Z, have it much better than we did. I'm not one to go back and say how great life was back in my day. If anything, I wish I was starting out 25 years ago, or today. The complaining about how bad it is, you don't know what you are talking about because you didn't live back then. How can someone that has lived the last 65 to 70 years not have a better grasp of those 65 to 70 years than someone who has only lived half that time? Let's use common sense. Yes, I am lumping Gen Z along with Millenials and others. You do not have any idea how much better you have it.
Crime
Economy
Technology
Environment
Opportunities
Travel
Disease prevention
Healthcare improvements
No draft or wars killing or maiming our citizens with massive casualties
The list is endless. No disdain, but have some awareness of how great you have it. Want to know why my generation and generations older than mine shake our heads at some of the comments coming out of those that came after? It is because we have lived life, we have experiences you don't have, and we shake our heads at how good you have it and don't realize. No patience. Constant whinging and blaming. Suck it up, we'll be dead soon enough and you can unnatural carnal knowledge over the country as you accused us of doing and then the next generation that has it even better can tell you how evil you were.
Define the age group you are talking about. Others have a point in that you may be defining people other than millenials. However, even the definition of what a millenial is changes depending on whom you talk to.
Just today there is an article about millenials and debt. CNBC says a millenial is age 18 to 37. Link below. Meaning kids born in 2000 and beyond.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/1-in-5-millennials-with-debt-expect-to-die-without-ever-paying-it-off.html
If using that definition, you may be right as certainly 18 year olds have been swiping their existence for more than half of their life. Other sources say 1995 is the cutoff. http://www.millennialmarketing.com/2018/03/the-birth-years-of-millennials-and-generation-z/
This may be causing some of the arguing back and forth because not everyone is aligned on what a definition is. Born in 1995 vs 2000 is actually a HUGE difference technologically and the life these people have experienced. In 1994-95, Katie Couric was asking what the Internet was. By 2000 it was already well underway. If you were born in '95, the iPhone launched when you were 12, but you were only 7 if you were born in 2000. The timing and definitions matter.
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They aren't better now, we should make them better. :) If they were great, wouldn't you still want to make them better if you could? Progress, baby, progress.
You sound like one of those never satisfied reformists.
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They aren't better now, we should make them better. :) If they were great, wouldn't you still want to make them better if you could? Progress, baby, progress.
That's not what I've been told ad nauseam in this thread.
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That's not what I've been told ad nauseam in this thread.
Different people have different points of view, right? Aren't there a bunch of folks here saying our parents (boomers) had it great and ruined it for you guys? I'm a Gen X, don't fit into any of these categories.
Personally, I miss the days of not locking the doors at night, knowing my neighbors, listening to Randy Newman's Short People Got No Reason to live and not losing my crap like people would today, Don Martin's book of jokes, MAD magazine, New Years Day for football, the NBA short shorts and travels were called, hockey had great fights, Atari 2600, hand held Mattel electronic football, staying out until 10:00pm and parents wouldn't dream of calling the cops because nothing wrong was happening.
Yes yes, please don't bother with all of the bad injustices. So stipulated. There were plenty. I was lucky, lived a great childhood.
We're all a product of how we grew up and our life's experiences. There were also so great things back then. Times change.
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Millennials are awful. All of them should be shot by the guns they think should be controlled. Would serve 'em right. They've had it so easy, they'd probably even die easy. Losers.
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You sound like one of those never satisfied reformists.
Yup, once an activist always an activist.
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Millennials are awful. All of them should be shot by the guns they think should be controlled. Would serve 'em right. They've had it so easy, they'd probably even die easy. Losers.
I'll keep looking here for even Elizabeth Warren Native American levels of ancestry to be correct in you statement. So far I come up with 0% of what you said was said here, which means Warren by a smidge.
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Define the age group you are talking about. Others have a point in that you may be defining people other than millenials. However, even the definition of what a millenial is changes depending on whom you talk to.
Just today there is an article about millenials and debt. CNBC says a millenial is age 18 to 37. Link below. Meaning kids born in 2000 and beyond.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/1-in-5-millennials-with-debt-expect-to-die-without-ever-paying-it-off.html
If using that definition, you may be right as certainly 18 year olds have been swiping their existence for more than half of their life. Other sources say 1995 is the cutoff. http://www.millennialmarketing.com/2018/03/the-birth-years-of-millennials-and-generation-z/
This may be causing some of the arguing back and forth because not everyone is aligned on what a definition is. Born in 1995 vs 2000 is actually a HUGE difference technologically and the life these people have experienced. In 1994-95, Katie Couric was asking what the Internet was. By 2000 it was already well underway. If you were born in '95, the iPhone launched when you were 12, but you were only 7 if you were born in 2000. The timing and definitions matter.
Extending it to 2000 is ridiculous. There is nothing in common between a 19yr old today, a person who was 19 in 2009 and a person who was 19 in 1999. Heck I'd argue the 19yr old in 09 may have more in common with the one from 99
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I'll keep looking here for even Elizabeth Warren Native American levels of ancestry to be correct in you statement. So far I come up with 0% of what you said was said here, which means Warren by a smidge.
Huh? Why are you bringing up politics here? I didn't. Must be that mature, non-Millennial brain of yours working overtime.
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I'll keep looking here for even Elizabeth Warren Native American levels of ancestry to be correct in you statement. So far I come up with 0% of what you said was said here, which means Warren by a smidge.
(http://www.animalslook.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/13.jpg)
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Extending it to 2000 is ridiculous. There is nothing in common between a 19yr old today, a person who was 19 in 2009 and a person who was 19 in 1999. Heck I'd argue the 19yr old in 09 may have more in common with the one from 99
Strongly disagree. The challenges of the young are similar across generations. You've finished college, you're getting married, you're starting a career and you are building a life for yourself. You get frustrated because throse old folks in the way don't see things the way you do.
Young folks are bombarded with options and face the same challenges across generations. What's best? What's right and wrong? How do I fit? There are certain positive moral values (channeling my inner Dr. Beach here) that transcend generations. The situations certainly are different. The ethics, morality and challenges facing people are not.
"Don't trust anyone over 30?" That's certainly not new!
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Strongly disagree. The challenges of the young are similar across generations. You've finished college, you're getting married, you're starting a career and you are building a life for yourself. You get frustrated because throse old folks in the way don't see things the way you do.
Young folks are bombarded with options and face the same challenges across generations. What's best? What's right and wrong? How do I fit? There are certain positive moral values (channeling my inner Dr. Beach here) that transcend generations. The situations certainly are different. The ethics, morality and challenges facing people are not.
"Don't trust anyone over 30?" That's certainly not new!
In that context sure, but that was not what I was referring to. Pointing more towards similar childhood experiences, due to technology, freedom parents gave their kids, etc.
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Define the age group you are talking about. Others have a point in that you may be defining people other than millenials. However, even the definition of what a millenial is changes depending on whom you talk to.
Just today there is an article about millenials and debt. CNBC says a millenial is age 18 to 37. Link below. Meaning kids born in 2000 and beyond.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/1-in-5-millennials-with-debt-expect-to-die-without-ever-paying-it-off.html
If using that definition, you may be right as certainly 18 year olds have been swiping their existence for more than half of their life. Other sources say 1995 is the cutoff. http://www.millennialmarketing.com/2018/03/the-birth-years-of-millennials-and-generation-z/
This may be causing some of the arguing back and forth because not everyone is aligned on what a definition is. Born in 1995 vs 2000 is actually a HUGE difference technologically and the life these people have experienced. In 1994-95, Katie Couric was asking what the Internet was. By 2000 it was already well underway. If you were born in '95, the iPhone launched when you were 12, but you were only 7 if you were born in 2000. The timing and definitions matter.
This is a great question. Here I have been told the wrong generation has been included, but the definitions you gave show that may not the case. My youngest is 20, my oldest in their 30's. According to some of these definitions, what I have said fit. That may be the problem, we are not all using the same definitions to define these generations.
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Extending it to 2000 is ridiculous. There is nothing in common between a 19yr old today, a person who was 19 in 2009 and a person who was 19 in 1999. Heck I'd argue the 19yr old in 09 may have more in common with the one from 99
As a father of a 20 year old and a father of another in their late 20's and one in their early 30's, that statement you made is not true. NOTHING IN COMMON? Wholly untrue, especially if they grew up in the same household. They may not have much in common or in some cases nothing, but that isn't going to be true in every case. Blanket statement not correct.
Earlier one of your messages said crime may not be better because you grew up in an area where someone what shot. I am speaking of averages, and crime is down on average across this country. You seem to be making the error of extrapolating your experience and saying it applies to all.
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A general note. The current youngest generation (Generation Z) is sometimes referred to as the "Delta Generation," as they have been part of constant change. Some in this generation indicate they cannot remember a time of stability.
They've witnessed, 9/11, endless wars, the Great Recession, and now the most combative and unstable political system in a long long time.
Their parents have lost jobs, lost homes, been sent overseas to fight endless wars, etc. All while having to face global environmental catastrophes that are supposed to come to a head in their lifetime.
To say these people have had it easy is ignorant or reality. Maybe it is because many on these boards come from lives of privilege, that they do not have a clue what life is like for the majority of Americans.
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Strongly disagree. The challenges of the young are similar across generations. You've finished college, you're getting married, you're starting a career and you are building a life for yourself. You get frustrated because throse old folks in the way don't see things the way you do.
Young folks are bombarded with options and face the same challenges across generations. What's best? What's right and wrong? How do I fit? There are certain positive moral values (channeling my inner Dr. Beach here) that transcend generations. The situations certainly are different. The ethics, morality and challenges facing people are not.
"Don't trust anyone over 30?" That's certainly not new!
This is sound from my experience. You and I are probably in a similar age group. The opportunities right now are amazing for people. Social media is one area that I believe causes younger people to feel like the world is on fire, and it isn't. 24 hours a day, bombarding your brain with stuff may not be a good deal. World news events, skirmishes, natural disasters have always happened, but now they are delivered to people in minutes or seconds, often straight from the source without vetting by media. That's the one area that I believe can have a corrupting influence on younger people today. Group think is the worst I have ever seen in my life. Tribal.
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A general note. The current youngest generation (Generation Z) is sometimes referred to as the "Delta Generation," as they have been part of constant change. Some in this generation indicate they cannot remember a time of stability.
They've witnessed, 9/11, endless wars, the Great Recession, and now the most combative and unstable political system in a long long time.
Their parents have lost jobs, lost homes, been sent overseas to fight endless wars, etc. All while having to face global environmental catastrophes that are supposed to come to a head in their lifetime.
To say these people have had it easy is ignorant or reality. Maybe it is because many on these boards come from lives of privilege, that they do not have a clue what life is like for the majority of Americans.
Your point is well taken, but I'm not sure where people are saying they have it easy. Not to my reading. Easier, doesn't mean easy.
More opportunities, better crime stats, better environment, doesn't mean easy. Life is hard.
There were endless wars in my day where Americans lost lives at an alarming rate, we had the draft. Nothing like today's endless wars. The news doesn't even cover these endless wars with rare exception when some Americans are killed, which isn't often.
Unemployment during the great recession never hit what it was in the early 1980's here. 1960's politics was incredibly unstable with riots. We had a president resign in the 1970's. We had a bunch of students hold the USA hostage at the end of the 1970's in Iran. Each generation goes through these things. The difference is the informational bombardment of today, the availability in pictures and video, that didn't exist in the past.
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Boy is cubbiechicos ever working OT to keep repeating versions of his generalizations over and over and over again.
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Boy is cubbiechicos ever working OT to keep repeating versions of his generalizations over and over and over again.
CubbieChicos? Is this a new one?
Living rent free in Miguel’s head (with Erin) for all these years.
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CubbieChicos? Is this a new one?
It's WarriorDad. Or you.
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It's WarriorDad. Or you.
Are they the same person?
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Are they the same person?
Only he/they/she/it knows.
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It's WarriorDad. Or you.
From what I've read, I would guess we only align on about 30% of his views, but keep on going with it. Don't forget Billy Hoyle and all the others. Make sure to include the big tent.
My kids aren't millenials, at least based on one of those definitions, though by one of them they are. I have mostly millenials working for me, and most work hard, smart and do things the right way. I have no problem with millenials, despite your accusations.
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I have no problem with millenials, despite your accusations.
Good.
I must have you confused with somebody else.
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Good.
I must have you confused with somebody else.
I do think they lack patience, does that make me anti-millenial?
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As a father of a 20 year old and a father of another in their late 20's and one in their early 30's, that statement you made is not true. NOTHING IN COMMON? Wholly untrue, especially if they grew up in the same household. They may not have much in common or in some cases nothing, but that isn't going to be true in every case. Blanket statement not correct.
Earlier one of your messages said crime may not be better because you grew up in an area where someone what shot. I am speaking of averages, and crime is down on average across this country. You seem to be making the error of extrapolating your experience and saying it applies to all.
You realise your first statement is extrapolating your experience and saying it applies to all then your second statement you criticise me for doing the same thing. Look as an average you can claim a lot of things about millennials, but don't expect every millennial on here to bend over as you express insult us when we've had very different lives than your blanket statements claim.
Decide if you're ok with blanket statements or using personal experience arguments because you've done both in this thread and then criticised me for the same.
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I do think they lack patience, does that make me anti-millenial?
I can't possibly know if you are anti-Millennial. However, it does make you a guy who too often falls back on generalizations and stereotypes.
I mean, I hear all Jews are good with money, too.
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I can't possibly know if you are anti-Millennial. However, it does make you a guy who too often falls back on generalizations and stereotypes.
I mean, I hear all Jews are good with money, too.
Like female reporters and what they wear and who they hug? Come on, give it a rest.....we all do it to an extent.
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Like female reporters and what they wear and who they hug? Come on, give it a rest.....we all do it to an extent.
gibberish
Just PMed you.
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Like female reporters and what they wear and who they hug? Come on, give it a rest.....we all do it to an extent.
And boom goes the dynamite
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Only he/they/she/it knows.
To be fair, he identifies as two different people......
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Are they the same person?
With posts like this, I'll never be able to forget the existence of Alanis Morrisette.
As an aside, my browser wants to auto-correct "Alanis Morrisette" to "Alan is Terrorist" and all my brain is telling me right now is somehow I've got to put that to use.
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With posts like this, I'll never be able to forget the existence of Alanis Morrisette.
As an aside, my browser wants to auto-correct "Alanis Morrisette" to "Alan is Terrorist" and all my brain is telling me right now is somehow I've got to put that to use.
Is Brewcity77 on a list after poll attacking Gary Parrish?
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With posts like this, I'll never be able to forget the existence of Alanis Morrisette.
As an aside, my browser wants to auto-correct "Alanis Morrisette" to "Alan is Terrorist" and all my brain is telling me right now is somehow I've got to put that to use.
It probably wants to auto-correct because you indeed spelled it wrong.
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Like female reporters and what they wear and who they hug? Come on, give it a rest.....we all do it to an extent.
Speekin' of witch, hoo heer tinks Katie George is hot, hey?
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Your judgement is clouded by ego. These generational arguments are always, "be happy for what you have, because I had to walk up hill both ways to make a nickel, and instead of crying about it, I did it". It is pride, that you worked hard to get where you are, and now you are in a position, where you do not realize how hard others still have it.
When you were starting out, you could buy a home, and raise a family on 1 salary. Now, two people working struggle to accomplish that, and on top of it all people working their tail off are stuck with mortgage sized student loan debts.
The idea of starting a family before one is 30 is considered impossible to most, because in order to get a salary equivalent to the $10k one you were talking about, you need an advanced degree.
I could go on and on about what the current generation has as struggles, because I know them and interact with them daily. I also have the experience, and intellect, to be able to recognize that although the types of struggles changed between my generation and millennials, both groups have their respective struggles. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. And most importantly nothing ever changes in regards to cranky old men saying "kids these days."
Whoops...
https://youtu.be/rEENNfD7PR0
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Whoops...
https://youtu.be/rEENNfD7PR0
This video in no way responds to the post you quoted.
[edit]
To elaborate, using this video this way is in tremendously bad faith. "We found that increased liquidity lead to an approximately 0.5% to 1% increase in homeownership" is the most important line of the whole thing (1:28 in).
So in other words, we took a group of people that needed to spend or borrow a tremendous amount of money just to make it through college. Then we pumped another $7,500k in loans to them per year. Turns out, they spent that money on stuff! Conclusion, let's pump them full of more loans then they'll buy more houses and all kinds of other stuff faster!
This is how really stupid economic policy demonizes entire groups of people. The same groups saying "hey look at that, student loans help you buy houses!" will be decrying idiot millennials for taking out money to buy things they can't afford
- but only after an idiot millenial bails them out by buying their house.
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This video in no way responds to the post you quoted.
[edit]
To elaborate, using this video this way is in tremendously bad faith. "We found that increased liquidity lead to an approximately 0.5% to 1% increase in homeownership" is the most important line of the whole thing (1:28 in).
So in other words, we took a group of people that needed to spend or borrow a tremendous amount of money just to make it through college. Then we pumped another $7,500k in loans to them per year. Turns out, they spent that money on stuff! Conclusion, let's pump them full of more loans then they'll buy more houses and all kinds of other stuff faster!
This is how really stupid economic policy demonizes entire groups of people. The same groups saying "hey look at that, student loans help you buy houses!" will be decrying idiot millennials for taking out money to buy things they can't afford
- but only after an idiot millenial bails them out by buying their house.
I’ll leave it to readers to evaluate the irony of your accusation that I read the video content in bad faith.
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This video in no way responds to the post you quoted.
[edit]
To elaborate, using this video this way is in tremendously bad faith. "We found that increased liquidity lead to an approximately 0.5% to 1% increase in homeownership" is the most important line of the whole thing (1:28 in).
So in other words, we took a group of people that needed to spend or borrow a tremendous amount of money just to make it through college. Then we pumped another $7,500k in loans to them per year. Turns out, they spent that money on stuff! Conclusion, let's pump them full of more loans then they'll buy more houses and all kinds of other stuff faster!
This is how really stupid economic policy demonizes entire groups of people. The same groups saying "hey look at that, student loans help you buy houses!" will be decrying idiot millennials for taking out money to buy things they can't afford
- but only after an idiot millenial bails them out by buying their house.
This poster appears to have had a "vacation" of sorts for a few months... Immediately upon return resurrecting a thread that may have caused said vacation. So I'd be careful to jump into much of a debate with them.
I entirely agree with you, by the way. I have been blessed in my own journey past crushing student loan debt, but I still identify with people that are perplexed by some of the antiquated stereotypes and inability to default to empathy that seems to dominate public discourse... and especially the anonymous internet.
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Very stressed apparently
Slow WiFi and broken phones, having to sit in traffic
https://www.studyfinds.org/survey-millennials-life-more-stressful-than-ever-before/
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This is sound from my experience. You and I are probably in a similar age group. The opportunities right now are amazing for people. Social media is one area that I believe causes younger people to feel like the world is on fire, and it isn't. 24 hours a day, bombarding your brain with stuff may not be a good deal. World news events, skirmishes, natural disasters have always happened, but now they are delivered to people in minutes or seconds, often straight from the source without vetting by media. That's the one area that I believe can have a corrupting influence on younger people today. Group think is the worst I have ever seen in my life. Tribal.
Our parents said the same thing about our television watching habits. They saw this new technology limiting our imagination, freedom and creativity by tying us to what was called the "idiot box."
Granted, technology has boosted the number, frequency and immediacy of communications available to Millennials. But, if you had gone back to 1965 and queried our 30-something parents about the "new" technology in our homes, chances their attitudes would have been about the same as our's is toward the Millennials.
Bottom line: The lesson my wife taught me will stick with me as I deal with the frustrations caused by the Millennials who work for me. "Just remember what you were like when you started out," she said.
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Our parents said the same thing about our television watching habits. They saw this new technology limiting our imagination, freedom and creativity by tying us to what was called the "idiot box."
Granted, technology has boosted the number, frequency and immediacy of communications available to Millennials. But, if you had gone back to 1965 and queried our 30-something parents about the "new" technology in our homes, chances their attitudes would have been about the same as our's is toward the Millennials.
Bottom line: The lesson my wife taught me will stick with me as I deal with the frustrations caused by the Millennials who work for me. "Just remember what you were like when you started out," she said.
Great points. And not only that ...
Look around at who is attached to their phones -- not just Millennials. I see oldsters texting constantly, taking photos of their food and posting on Facebook, etc. Hell, many (most?) Millennials and younger won't even look at FB any more because the oldsters have taken it over.
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Just flew for 7 hours over the atlantic, my seat mate, a millennial, said, "hi".
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Just flew for 7 hours over the atlantic, my seat mate, a millennial, said, "hi".
Because there are no other anti-social people in any other generation? This is not a generational feature, this is an individual characteristic. Some people just do not like to start up conversations with random people. I was on a flight from Seattle to Milwaukee, sat next to a Millennial and had a great conversation the whole flight (which is uncharacteristic for me as I tend to be one of those people who would just like to read or listen to a podcast)
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Went out to dinner 2 weeks ago with another couple. They were in their early-60s. We pull out of their subdivision and the woman is in a panic because she can't find her phone. She insists her husband goes back to get it. She comes back out of the house with it, gets in the car and says, "Thank God!" It makes a chirping noise about 20 times during dinner -- various texts (which she answers each time) and notifications about posts she's getting on FB, "breaking news," etc.
After we get home, we notice that we've been tagged, along with photos of what she had for dinner.
Damn Millennials.
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Just flew for 7 hours over the atlantic, my seat mate, a millennial, said, "hi".
That is so cool. Insanely jealous. I hope you enjoyed the peace and tranquility and used the time to rest and ponder life's big questions.
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That is so cool. Insanely jealous. I hope you enjoyed the peace and tranquility and used the time to rest and ponder life's big questions.
He spent 7 hours playing video games and he was in his early 20's. My wife speaks Italian, I don't, all I do is eat real food without additives, ponder life's big questions and listen to the bell's tolling.
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Just flew for 7 hours over the atlantic, my seat mate, a millennial, said, "hi".
Consider yoself lucky, hey?
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He spent 7 hours playing video games and he was in his early 20's. My wife speaks Italian, I don't, all I do is eat real food without additives, ponder life's big questions and listen to the bell's tolling.
We're the video games in Italian? If so, does Mario speak with a heavy English accent in the Italian version?
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Very stressed apparently
Slow WiFi and broken phones, having to sit in traffic
https://www.studyfinds.org/survey-millennials-life-more-stressful-than-ever-before/
You mock. But life is tough out there.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/sorority-sisters-raise-money-for-poor-friend-to-upgrade-to-coachella-vip-passes
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You mock. But life is tough out there.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/sorority-sisters-raise-money-for-poor-friend-to-upgrade-to-coachella-vip-passes
LOL. Thanks for sharing.
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Nice crossover between the generational thread, the Kap/Nike thread, and the investing thread.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/what-s-gen-z-and-how-can-you-invest-cannabis-influencers-key
(https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-05/what-s-gen-z-and-how-can-you-invest-cannabis-influencers-key)
Investors’ Guide to Gen Z: Weed, Social Justice and Kylie Jenner
<snip>
Apparel brands looking to connect with younger shoppers have tried embracing edgier brand ambassadors, a departure from the days when consumer companies went to great pains to avoid politics. That's because Gen Z actually wants corporations to take a stand on issues, with 40 percent saying they’d pay more for a product if they knew the company was promoting gender equality issues and 42 percent for racial justice initiatives.
Nike understands. Last year, it released an ad featuring Colin Kaepernick, and while the inclusion of the controversial quarterback-turned-activist initially spooked investors, the shares have since rebounded. And there are indications that ads have helped boost sales.
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Breaking news: Maslow's Hierarchy has been updated:
(https://capitalogix.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/6a00e5502e47b2883301b8d10d4f5c970c-800wi.png)
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Ha ha, excellent.
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Breaking news: Maslow's Hierarchy has been updated:
(https://capitalogix.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/6a00e5502e47b2883301b8d10d4f5c970c-800wi.png)
To be fair this is something that is for everyone, not just gen y and gen z. Heck last summer I had to tell my mom to stop texting during a wedding ceremony.
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To be fair this is something that is for everyone, not just gen y and gen z. Heck last summer I had to tell my mom to stop texting during a wedding ceremony.
Exactly, its funny to see phone obsession be chalked up to a millennial thing when they certainly aren't the ones posting endless mobile updates to Facebook and charging stations in public areas/restaurants/airports/etc... are certainly not catering to a singular age demo.
Can also guarantee that when you heard a phone beeping or ringing in a quiet area where it should be not, odds are its not a millennial or younger.
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Exactly, its funny to see phone obsession be chalked up to a millennial thing when they certainly aren't the ones posting endless mobile updates to Facebook and charging stations in public areas/restaurants/airports/etc... are certainly not catering to a singular age demo.
Can also guarantee that when you heard a phone beeping or ringing in a quiet area where it should be not, odds are its not a millennial or younger.
To what extent is the mirroring of Millennial "interests/obsessions" by older generations potentially the result of the "middle-age crisis" or related phenomenon?
In other words, to what extent is a 50 year-old's Facebook/Instagram obsession being triggered as a coping mechanism vs. being an actual interest? When I used to hang out at Aladdin's Castle in my teens, I never recall seeing anyone in there over 30... but walk into a Starbucks, and half the people in there hashtagging are just a few years away from being hooked up to a catheter.
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To be fair this is something that is for everyone, not just gen y and gen z. Heck last summer I had to tell my mom to stop texting during a wedding ceremony.
Yeah my mom is on Facebook wayyyyy more than I am. I actually think the peak demographic for activity (not necessarily members, just those who are on like every day) is ages 40-60, conservative males and suburban moms (at least in the USA)
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Nike understands. Last year, it released an ad featuring Colin Kaepernick, and while the inclusion of the controversial quarterback-turned-activist initially spooked investors, the shares have since rebounded. And there are indications that ads have helped boost sales.
This was an example of two things in investing:
1. Noise. As is almost always the case, it's best ignored.
2. An investing opportunity. Thanks to those who couldn't ignore noise, the price was temporarily driven down by knee-jerk yahoos spooked by the relative small number of angry consumers screaming, "I'll never buy another Nike product!"
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...spooked by the relative small number of angry consumers screaming, "I'll never buy another Nike product!"
Who, six months later, quietly replaced the Nike shoes they had burned in protest, thus boosting Nike’s sales.
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To what extent is the mirroring of Millennial "interests/obsessions" by older generations potentially the result of the "middle-age crisis" or related phenomenon?
In other words, to what extent is a 50 year-old's Facebook/Instagram obsession being triggered as a coping mechanism vs. being an actual interest? When I used to hang out at Aladdin's Castle in my teens, I never recall seeing anyone in there over 30... but walk into a Starbucks, and half the people in there hashtagging are just a few years away from being hooked up to a catheter.
IMO. The universality of the connected lifestyle is the primary culprit. We are only still a matter of years into most citizens having access to high speed internet and optimized content on their smartphones - a device through which a person consumes most of their advertising and learns most about what interest them. The lifestyle of a typical elderly person used to be quite different than their younger counterparts, and now, not as much. I wouldn't say it has to do with a lust for "mellenial lifestyle".
All of the primary tech players research and invest heavily across all age demographics. This wasn't always the case as computer literacy used to be highly focused among younger people.
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Who, six months later, quietly replaced the Nike shoes they had burned in protest, thus boosting Nike’s sales.
Or, in my case, made Nike the first place I looked when I needed new shoes/polo/etc before moving on to other places if I couldn't find what I wanted through Nike. Just to tick off the people I knew it would tick off.
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IMO. The universality of the connected lifestyle is the primary culprit. We are only still a matter of years into most citizens having access to high speed internet and optimized content on their smartphones - a device through which a person consumes most of their advertising and learns most about what interest them. The lifestyle of a typical elderly person used to be quite different than their younger counterparts, and now, not as much. I wouldn't say it has to do with a lust for "mellenial lifestyle".
All of the primary tech players research and invest heavily across all age demographics. This wasn't always the case as computer literacy used to be highly focused among younger people.
I actually agree with this a lot. Younger people/millennials are always the early adopters, so it became a hallmark of their age group. But as technology, connectivity, smartphone power grew more commonplace, adoption of those devices and similar habits expanded rapidly.
My 90 year old Grandmother used both a smartphone and an iPad for any number of activities and is quite attached to both. I can assure you it has nothing to do with lusting for a younger lifestyle.
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Or, in my case, made Nike the first place I looked when I needed new shoes/polo/etc before moving on to other places if I couldn't find what I wanted through Nike. Just to tick off the people I knew it would tick off.
I love their child sweat labor workforce....that’s why I go to Nike first.....teal not necessary