Cardinal Virtues

[forgetful]

What player(s) have taken a major step forward under Wojo?

Well, Theo John for 1.  Last year he once missed a layup with the ball bouncing off the backboard to damn near the 3 point line.  This year he is a solid offensive weapon.

Then there is this guy named Sam Hauser, who came in as a 3-star.  Outperformed during his freshman year, and then improved tremendously in year 2. He's off to a slightly slower start in terms of 3-pt shooting, but is also coming off a hip surgery, and his shooting is being pulled down from a 2-10 performance in one game.

Markus Howard was good as a freshman, but improved to near all-American status in his second year.

Some thought Sacar Anim should transfer his freshman year, because he was useless.  He is now our best defender and a solid well rounded contributor.

That's on this years squad alone.

[Big Papi]

I don't think it's a bad thing that people have "already" made up their mind about Wojo.  He's been here for four years and change.  Anyone who hasn't seen enough to make up their mind one way or the other is a pretty indecisive person.

+1

This is year 5 of being a head coach.  He will improve some but he kind of is what he is right now.

[StillWarriors]

It seems pretty evident that Sam, Markus and Joey are the best 3 players and will end up being the core of this team getting big minutes as the season progresses. I think Joey has been and will continue to contribute more significantly as he gets back in the groove of game competition and adjusting to this level. We'll still get contributions from many, but I suspect things will just evolve to where it will be in more limited minutes.

[brewcity77]

At this point, it's clear there are many fans who want MU to lose, with the thought that Wojo is not the guy, and that wins prolong his tenure.

I think you're probably right, though I don't think there are many. I'm not in that camp. I would love for Wojo to finish non-con on a tear and win out. I would love for Wojo to finish top three in league and be comfortably in the tournament. I would love for him to be the guy that figures it out as the season and his career goes on, right along with his players. I would love for him to get MU back to the Final Four, a chance for a National Championship, and stay here for the next 20+ years.

But if he's not that guy, I'd rather figure it out sooner than later. Because if this roster isn't as good as we believe, if this staff can't turn them into a league contender, then it's better to get moving on the next direction than spin our wheels for 2-3 more years because Wojo has a good relationship with the administration.

[Floorslapper]

This is subjective because of whatever your definition of "major" is. JJJ showed considerable improvement. Sacar, Theo and Sam have all gotten better since they've been here.

How much of the improvement is coaching and how much is talent?

JJJ came in as a borderline 5-star talent.  Was virtually assured to become a good player.  I'd say JJJ underachieved his ability actually, and that had a lot to do with Wojo.

Sam is basically the same player he's been since arriving - a slight uptick in usage would be his "improvement."  Markus's numbers have largely gotten worse each season.  Theo shown some improvement.  Sacar is in his 4th year - modest improvement.  Matt Heldt? 

[rocket surgeon]

I don't think it's a bad thing that people have "already" made up their mind about Wojo.  He's been here for four years and change.  Anyone who hasn't seen enough to make up their mind one way or the other is a pretty indecisive person.

I don't think this is fair.  Coaches, like players, like people in their professions, always need/ want to improve if they aren't so full of themselves.  I don't think wojo is full of himself.  Coaching is not static.  Most are constantly looking for ways to improve whether it's motivating the players to trying different combinations, plays, watching other teams, coaches,  etc. an example of a coach who is at his end is McCarthy-he's still running plays from the forest Gregg era

[Vander Blue Man Group]

JJJ came in as a borderline 5-star talent.  Was virtually assured to become a good player.  I'd say JJJ underachieved his ability actually, and that had a lot to do with Wojo.

Sam is basically the same player he's been since arriving - a slight uptick in usage would be his "improvement."  Markus's numbers have largely gotten worse each season.  Theo shown some improvement.  Sacar is in his 4th year - modest improvement.  Matt Heldt?

Hilarious and predictable. 

[jutaw22mu]

That was a great win last night! Several guys stepped up at the end and it was a total team effort.  Loved Joey's tip in and free throws at the end.

[forgetful]

JJJ came in as a borderline 5-star talent.  Was virtually assured to become a good player.  I'd say JJJ underachieved his ability actually, and that had a lot to do with Wojo.

Sam is basically the same player he's been since arriving - a slight uptick in usage would be his "improvement."  Markus's numbers have largely gotten worse each season.  Theo shown some improvement.  Sacar is in his 4th year - modest improvement.  Matt Heldt?

JJJ sucked under Buzz.  Wojo turned a dreadfully bad shooter into a solid 3-pt threat by spending time and completely reworking his shot.  Something Buzz wouldn't have done.  That doesn't happen and he wouldn't have been assured of anything. 

The rest is you shifting goalposts and redefining improvements.  If these players were playing for Buzz or another team you would be arguing that we need to see improvement from players like that.  You have zero ability to rationally evaluate anything.  Haters gonna hate, I guess.

[Floorslapper]

JJJ sucked under Buzz.  Wojo turned a dreadfully bad shooter into a solid 3-pt threat by spending time and completely reworking his shot.  Something Buzz wouldn't have done.  That doesn't happen and he wouldn't have been assured of anything. 

The rest is you shifting goalposts and redefining improvements.  If these players were playing for Buzz or another team you would be arguing that we need to see improvement from players like that.  You have zero ability to rationally evaluate anything.  Haters gonna hate, I guess.

Fixed - Brett Nelson.

As for JJJ under Buzz - he played 1-year.  Most freshman aren't finished products.  "JJJ sucked under Buzz."  What a dumb point.

There's no goalpost shifting taking place. 

Your statement about not being able rationally evaluate anything is especially humorous coming on the heels of your post in the other thread:  Jamal can't execute a jump stop/shot fake.  LOL.

I'm sorry the numbers don't work out for you, but the player development under Wojo has been stagnant or resulted in transfers out.  This is the reason the program is never taking any steps forward over the last 3 years.

[Lennys Tap]

I think you're probably right, though I don't think there are many. I'm not in that camp. I would love for Wojo to finish non-con on a tear and win out. I would love for Wojo to finish top three in league and be comfortably in the tournament. I would love for him to be the guy that figures it out as the season and his career goes on, right along with his players. I would love for him to get MU back to the Final Four, a chance for a National Championship, and stay here for the next 20+ years.

But if he's not that guy, I'd rather figure it out sooner than later. Because if this roster isn't as good as we believe, if this staff can't turn them into a league contender, then it's better to get moving on the next direction than spin our wheels for 2-3 more years because Wojo has a good relationship with the administration.

I'm with you, Brew.

[BM1090]

Hilarious and predictable.

I want to say his response is unbelievable, but....

Theo is the best example this year. He's very improved especially defensively. Sam has clearly gotten better despite what Ners wants to believe. JJJ is a good example, "but it was Nelson who improved him". Wojo had nothing to do with one of his assistants drastically changing the way a player shoots and plays.

Markus has clearly improved as a ball handler and passer. His shooting has regressed mostly because he's taking far harder shots.

[Its DJOver]

I want to say his response is unbelievable, but....

Theo is the best example this year. He's very improved especially defensively. Sam has clearly gotten better despite what Ners wants to believe. JJJ is a good example, "but it was Nelson who improved him". Wojo had nothing to do with one of his assistants drastically changing the way a player shoots and plays.

Markus has clearly improved as a ball handler and passer. His shooting has regressed mostly because he's taking far harder shots.

Throw in Rowsey too. Almost nobody saw him developing the PG skills that he accumulated.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I want to say his response is unbelievable, but....

Theo is the best example this year. He's very improved especially defensively. Sam has clearly gotten better despite what Ners wants to believe. JJJ is a good example, "but it was Nelson who improved him". Wojo had nothing to do with one of his assistants drastically changing the way a player shoots and plays.

Markus has clearly improved as a ball handler and passer. His shooting has regressed mostly because he's taking far harder shots.

Exactly.  For the guys that have clearly improved there's always some kind of caveat. 

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Well, Theo John for 1.  Last year he once missed a layup with the ball bouncing off the backboard to damn near the 3 point line.  This year he is a solid offensive weapon.

Then there is this guy named Sam Hauser, who came in as a 3-star.  Outperformed during his freshman year, and then improved tremendously in year 2. He's off to a slightly slower start in terms of 3-pt shooting, but is also coming off a hip surgery, and his shooting is being pulled down from a 2-10 performance in one game.

Markus Howard was good as a freshman, but improved to near all-American status in his second year.

Some thought Sacar Anim should transfer his freshman year, because he was useless.  He is now our best defender and a solid well rounded contributor.

That's on this years squad alone.

I disagree with the entire premise.  I think pretty much every player has improved.  However To call Theo a "solid" offensive weapon us a majir stretch.  Hopefully by next year we can consider him solid.  Still a major work in progress.  Sacar is not our best defender.  He is often times our best athlete in the floor, which is part if our problem.

[Goose]

Topper

I hope no one is hoping for the team to fail this season. While I am not confident that Wojo makes the program a year in year and year out top 20 team, I am less confident on hiring someone better. Would far prefer Wojo up the program than axe him and start over again.
I do find disturbing that some on here bash anyone not 100% sold on Wojo. I believe Wojo has met the expectations that MU brass has for the program.

[muwarrior69]

He's not a savior he's a key piece that can contribute nightly tho.

And unlike Froling....we've seen Greg in a MU Jersey.

If Greg can get back healthy this year, he's absolutely going to be an added boost

I would absolutely like to see Greg back. It would be interesting to see how the team plays with Chartouny and Greg as the guards while Markus is on the bench.

[muwarrior69]

Topper

I hope no one is hoping for the team to fail this season. While I am not confident that Wojo makes the program a year in year and year out top 20 team, I am less confident on hiring someone better. Would far prefer Wojo up the program than axe him and start over again.
I do find disturbing that some on here bash anyone not 100% sold on Wojo. I believe Wojo has met the expectations that MU brass has for the program.

Why do we assume the whole team is going to transfer. Louisville did not loose much when Mack come aboard. Though I agree we should see what Wojo does the rest of the season.

[tower912]

+1

This is year 5 of being a head coach.  He will improve some but he kind of is what he is right now.

We are all kind of what we are right now.   

[Loose Cannon]

Maybe. I really expected Jamal to take a big step forward this year too, but so far that hasn't seem to come to pass.

A lot more time for him to take that step this season.

[mu_hilltopper]

I think you're probably right, though I don't think there are many. I'm not in that camp. I would love for Wojo to finish non-con on a tear and win out. ...

But if he's not that guy, I'd rather figure it out sooner than later. ... then it's better to get moving on the next direction than spin our wheels for 2-3 more years because Wojo has a good relationship with the administration.

I agree with all of this .. though "finding out sooner than later" == losing enough to light the torches and gather pitchforks. 

The amount of "I want to be proven wrong" is at an all time high in 2018.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

JJJ came in as a borderline 5-star talent.  Was virtually assured to become a good player.  I'd say JJJ underachieved his ability actually, and that had a lot to do with Wojo.

LOL!  JJJ doesn't count because he was a freshman and a 5-star. LMAO.

There used to be poster around here that would strongly--you might even say incessantly-- disagree with you on this point.  Of course, you weren't around to see him because he was banned from this board an other boards multiple times for literally being too obnoxious to be allowed to stay.

Anyway, he would scream continuously--and I mean, scream, like in every single thread, no matter what the actually topic was--about Buzz nailing JJJ to the bench.  Everybody else, with the exception of this poster's BFF, could see that JJJ was a complete liability on floor, but that didn't stop the poster from making this argument to the point of polluting every thread and making the board unreadable.

But Buzz left, and wouldn't you know it?  JJJ became a productive player his final two seasons under Wojo.  But those don't count, because...reasons.

[Silent Verbal]

I've always been of the mind that JJJ was vastly overrated coming out of high school.  He was probably closer to a 3 star than a 5 star.  As a freshman, he looked like he was 15 years old and his shot was broken.  If you want to make a case for high school rankings not mattering, he'd be example 1A.

[CountryRoads]

I've always been of the mind that JJJ was vastly overrated coming out of high school.  He was probably closer to a 3 star than a 5 star.  As a freshman, he looked like he was 15 years old and his shot was broken.  If you want to make a case for high school rankings not mattering, he'd be example 1A.

I think JJJ's game really is suited for the less structured AAU style of play. I'm sure he looked amazing in some of those tournaments which is the reason for his high rating. Although, when the game slowed down he was obviously less effective at the high major D1 level.

[mu03eng]

About that defense.   Other than defensive rebounding, the defense was really solid.    Which makes 4 3/4 games this year.    IU is the only real stinker.     Giving up 77 to Kansas isn't a crime.    That 22-0 run was more about missed shots and stagnant offense than really poor defense. 


So few threads tonight.   A rarely mentioned benefit of a win.

One thing I've noticed, the defense is at its worst when the opponent is coming downhill. When MU turns it over or takes a bad shot, that's when the defense struggles. That may be an obvious statement but its heartening to think that the defense may get even more adequate as the offense improves resulting if fewer downhill possessions