Cardinal Virtues

[Floorslapper]

Ners

I never thought Buzz could coach, but he got players and they played hard for him. Big fan of his time here, but being a coaching guru is not something I buy into. I loved the type of player and the style played during his time here.

Hi Goose - Agree Buzz brought a great type of player to MU and played a great style.  I feel a large part of coaching is being able to reach a guy, and extract his best.  Buzz was generally great in that sense.  X's and O's may not have been elite level coaching, BUT, he had a very clear and consistent philosophy:  Paint Touches.  Make more free throws than the opposition attempts.  Physicality.  He told the guys to F with Wisconsin athletically - junkyard dog mentality. 

[GGGG]

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is just that - an opinion.

Mine is an informed opinion supported by a great deal of evidence.  It is a good opinion.

Yours is based on conjecture.  It is nonsense.  And it devalues your other, oftentimes very good opinions that you post here.

[Goose]

Ners

We agree on Buzz.

[Floorslapper]

Mine is an informed opinion supported by a great deal of evidence.  It is a good opinion.

Yours is based on conjecture.  It is nonsense.  And it devalues your other, oftentimes very good opinions that you post here.

Agree to disagree Sultan.  Though I'm not sure your three points furnish a great deal of evidence, and offer much more than conjecture as well.

[WhiteTrash]

Topper

I hope no one is hoping for the team to fail this season. While I am not confident that Wojo makes the program a year in year and year out top 20 team, I am less confident on hiring someone better. Would far prefer Wojo up the program than axe him and start over again.
I do find disturbing that some on here bash anyone not 100% sold on Wojo. I believe Wojo has met the expectations that MU brass has for the program.

While I think your comments on the whole are fair and level headed, there is no chance MU would not make a move with Wojo because they are afraid they can't find someone better. The member's of the BoT down to the AD would be derelict in their job duties. (or maybe your implying you don't trust MU's ability to find a better coach if they do fire Wojo).

I know it's only your 'belief', not knowledge, that Wojo has met MU's expectations but why do you think so? Other than not being fired, he has not been given a raise or offered a second extension. FWIW, it is my understanding that MU is taking a wait and see approach to extending Wojo as he has not really met nor severely missed expectations. I think everyone will agree he has not exceeded expectations.

[Goose]

White Trash

No one can argue that Wojo has not recruited really good kids. They definitely represent the school well.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Buzz' issues with the administration started long before Larry and Pilarz

[brewcity77]

Certainly can look at it this way, and as a result, at best:  Two bubble teams of 5 NCAA teams under Buzz, one of those "bubble" teams earned a 6 seed, and did win 9 of 10 in the real Big East.  (Meanwhile, through 4 seasons with Wojo, we are still waiting for our coach to led us to 3 regular season Big East wins in a row, in the watered down Big East.)

Buzz could flat out coach and that is proven out.  One year stands out as a major outlier where Buzz massively underperformed expectations. Some of you see it as a coincidence - I don't.

It's not a question of "certainly can look at it this way", that's the exact way it was. Don't take my word for it, either:

Lunardi on MU
               

Just got off a teleconference with Joe Lunardi, ESPN's Bracketologist, and was able to ask him about MU -- more specifically how much last night's convincing 69-48 victory over Louisville helped the Golden Eagles, and what they need to do from this point forward.

"I don't know if the margin of victory is a big deal as much as they're on a pretty good winning streak here," he said. "Part of that is the way the Big East schedule fell, with the Villanova double early on and all those close games. Now all the close games are going their way, and they're evening out.

"I think Marquette is just short of the lock board at this point. I think Saturday would finish the job. Right now they're No. 32 on my S-curve, which is as high as they've been since the pre-season. That's an 8 for a team that two or three weeks ago was out of the field. They could go up another couple lines, I think."
               

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/86254197.html

Joe Lunardi had us right on the bubble even after the Louisville win. Said we would maybe go up another couple lines from the 8-seed he slotted us at, which we did when we won two at MSG.

Warriors clobber Louisville to punch dance ticket

Written by: noreply@blogger.com (Tim Blair)

With tonight's dominant 69-48 victory over Louisville the Marquette Warriors moved to 20-9 on the season and 11-6 in BIG EAST play.

Darius Johnson-Odom turned in a career-high 22 points to lead the charge for Buzz Williams' crew. Maurice Acker finished with 15 points and super-sub Joseph Fulce chipped in with 11 points.  Marquette held Louisville to a season-low 48 points on 37% shooting from the field.  No Cardinal scored in double figures tonight.  Marquette's effort was simply outstanding.

More later this week but hey -- this team is dancing.  Great job, fellas.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2010/03/warriors-clobber-louisville-to-punch.html

According to Cracked Sidewalks, that win was the game that punched our ticket.

Goodman: Marquette is in
               

FoxSports.com's Jeff Goodman filed a late-night Bubble Watch and right at the top of his "Buy" list is Marquette.

And forget that bubble, Goodman has Marquette penciled inked in.

He writes: "The Golden Eagles punched their ticket with the home win against Louisville and are now playing with house money in the regular-season finale. This is a team that has overachieved as much as any in the country."
               

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/86112637.html

Jeff Goodman said the Louisville win was the one that got us over the hump.

Marquette (20-9, 11-6, RPI: 47, SOS: 51): The Golden Eagles are probably one win away from security after getting to 11-6 in the Big East with a thrashing of Louisville. If they either beat Notre Dame this weekend or win their Big East tournament opener, they're likely good to go. Marquette beat Xavier and Georgetown and have looked the part all season, even when in defeat.

https://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/03/04/bubble-update

This was AFTER the Louisville win, saying we were still one win away from security.

No one is trying to diminish Buzz's accomplishments by saying we were on the bubble most of the 2010 season or that the Team Bubble Watch moniker was accurate for quite awhile (the better part of 2+ years) and was revived in 2012-13 when we got hammered at Florida and lost to Green Bay when the entire site was ready to burn the program to the ground.

[WhiteTrash]

White Trash

No one can argue that Wojo has not recruited really good kids. They definitely represent the school well.

I agree. And no one can argue that Wojo has not acted with class and as a complete professional as MU head coach.

If really good kids and a class act coach are the only expectations of MU's brass then Wojo will be here for the next 30 years. Also, I think they should let the fans and donners know so everyone can adjust expectations.

[Goose]

White Trash
They assume that we all figured that out. Wojo has a job for long as he wants it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

White Trash
They assume that we all figured that out. Wojo has a job for long as he wants it.

Cmom Goose, there is zero truth to this

[Floorslapper]

It's not a question of "certainly can look at it this way", that's the exact way it was. Don't take my word for it, either:

No one is trying to diminish Buzz's accomplishments by saying we were on the bubble most of the 2010 season or that the Team Bubble Watch moniker was accurate for quite awhile (the better part of 2+ years) and was revived in 2012-13 when we got hammered at Florida and lost to Green Bay when the entire site was ready to burn the program to the ground.

As I said, at best the Team Bubble watch moniker could be applied to 2 of Buzz's 5 NCAA teams.  Forgetful made the forgettable point that implied we were a Bubble Team during Buzz's tenure.

Yet in spite of all of the talking heads calling us a bubble team in 2010, in one of the two year's referenced - we earned a 6-seed.  Far from actually being a bubble team.  Buzz's legacy is what it is:

6, 6, 11, 3, 3.

[Goose]

TAMU
Zero truth that MU has high desire to run an extremely clean program? If you do not believe that is highest priority of the school regarding the program, I think you are kidding yourself.
What do you think would need to happen for Wojo to lose his job over next 2-3 seasons? Barring a scandal, bubble team keeps his seat very cool, not hot.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU
Zero truth that MU has high desire to run an extremely clean program? If you do not believe that is highest priority of the school regarding the program, I think you are kidding yourself.
What do you think would need to happen for Wojo to lose his job over next 2-3 seasons? Barring a scandal, bubble team keeps his seat very cool, not hot.

You're changing your argument.  Wojo will win or he will be gone. Saying he has a job as long as he wants,  implying that his performance on the court doesn't matter is incorrect

[Goose]

TAMU
My point is based off of Wojo having a top fifty program, which is not real hard. By accident he can be a bubble team for next five seasons. He does not need March wins to keep his job over next few seasons.

[WhiteTrash]

TAMU
My point is based off of Wojo having a top fifty program, which is not real hard. By accident he can be a bubble team for next five seasons. He does not need March wins to keep his job over next few seasons.

Goose, I am not MU's AD so I don't know what the expectation of the Marquette head coach is, you obviously do know; do tell your sources, please.
I do know KO was brought in to win at a high level, Deane was brought into win at a high level and won but not enough, Crean was brought in to win at a high level and Buzz was hired to win at a high level. Why the change after 25 years?

[tower912]

MU wanted the anti-Buzz.   The powers that be did not like the off court actions and rumored actions.    They did not like having a basketball star with no chance of graduating due to the JUCO he came from.  Messed with happy. 
     So, they got the anti-Buzz.   High schoolers and grad transfers, not JUCO's.     Eagle scout public persona, not dancing on WVU's logo.    Duke pedigree, not a vagabond. 
    There has not been a whiff of scandal since Steve came on board.    Closest thing is probably Katin rumored to have stopped attending classes after the season ended.   
     

[Goose]

Tower
Well said.

[brewcity77]

As I said, at best the Team Bubble watch moniker could be applied to 2 of Buzz's 5 NCAA teams.  Forgetful made the forgettable point that implied we were a Bubble Team during Buzz's tenure.

Yet in spite of all of the talking heads calling us a bubble team in 2010, in one of the two year's referenced - we earned a 6-seed.  Far from actually being a bubble team.  Buzz's legacy is what it is:

6, 6, 11, 3, 3.

3-1/2 seasons:

2009-10: On the bubble into March.
2010-11: On the bubble until Selection Sunday.
2012-13: On the bubble into January
2013-14: On the bubble into late February, missed NCAAs.

Team Bubble Watch was accurate for more than half his tenure here.

Buzz was still a great coach. If anything, his ability to have his teams better by March almost every year (which completely erased two bubble watches in 2010 & 2013) was a testament to the work he did. But there's a reason for TBW and a reason Chiclets' checklist was broken out every year.

[WhiteTrash]

MU wanted the anti-Buzz.   The powers that be did not like the off court actions and rumored actions.    They did not like having a basketball star with no chance of graduating due to the JUCO he came from.  Messed with happy. 
     So, they got the anti-Buzz.   High schoolers and grad transfers, not JUCO's.     Eagle scout public persona, not dancing on WVU's logo.    Duke pedigree, not a vagabond. 
    There has not been a whiff of scandal since Steve came on board.    Closest thing is probably Katin rumored to have stopped attending classes after the season ended.   

Tower, I follow the logic but this does not prove MU's brass' expectations are good players and a class act coach and not winning games at a high level. I can't prove my assertion that MU also expect winning basketball and your post does not prove your belief stated above. The original post asserted that MU is happy with the status quo with Wojo; I proposed that the lack off an extension or raise are evidence of MU's "wait and see" position on Wojo. (I would stand corrected if someone proved otherwise)

A good clean program and winning are not mutually exclusive; see last years Final Four, 3/4 were class coaches, good players and clean programs. (KU being the exception)

[tower912]

I agree that MU powers also want to win.  In my opinion, Wojo has a longer leash because of the perception of the character of the coach and the players.  So, right now, I believe that Wojo's seat is glacially cool according to the decision makers.    I could be wrong.

[Goose]

White Trash
Of course they want to win. That said, they want to do it the right way. There is nothing wrong with their thought process. Bottom line, they do not want to risk scandal to win at high level. I have no gripe with that and have tempered my expectations.

[WhiteTrash]

I agree that MU powers also want to win.  In my opinion, Wojo has a longer leash because of the perception of the character of the coach and the players.  So, right now, I believe that Wojo's seat is glacially cool according to the decision makers.    I could be wrong.

I would agree with giving Wojo a longer leash and MU did with the original extension (hardly earned by on the court wins). It was a good decision at the time; top level players and assistant coaches want to come to a program where the head coach has long term job security.
So why not give Wojo a longer leash if MU's expectations have been reached? Is there any doubt if Wojo had 3 straight Tourney teams he would have been given a raise and extension by now? I have none and MU would be right to do so. My only conclusion is that he has not reached expectations, yet.
Recruiting players that will be at MU past the end of his contract may not be a negative (I disagree) but it certainly is not a positive.

[pbiflyer]

Watching the game in Nashville with all of my UT alum family and my Domer BIL

Very glad that we won after 45 minutes of them calling our team "a bunch of albinos and Sideshow Bob".

UT fans have little room to talk, when their team color can best be described as Uringe.

[WarriorDad]

White Trash
They assume that we all figured that out. Wojo has a job for long as he wants it.

This is not accurate, why do you keep saying this?