R-E-L-A-X

[Lennys Tap]

Al came in after MU won only 5 games the year before. I doubt Al had much pressure on him.

I wasn't talking about "pressure" (nor was Slapper). We were talking about how low the program had sank when different coaches took over. When Al took over (to your point, 5 wins the previous year) the was little on the roster and nobody wanted to come to MU. He turned that ship around very quickly.

[theBabyDavid]

I wasn't talking about "pressure" (nor was Slapper). We were talking about how low the program had sank when different coaches took over. When Al took over (to your point, 5 wins the previous year) the was little on the roster and nobody wanted to come to MU. He turned that ship around very quickly.

He certainly did. I think our current experiment is proving that the same stale results are what we can expect. Frankly, the mediocrity is getting old.

I remember coming down the vator in McCormick on Tuesday mornings where the staff would post the newly released Top 25 AP and UPI rankings. We were genuinely upset to be ranked 3 or 4.

The loss to Miami of Ohio changed all of that. Damn that ref. Damn Al for pushing Hank. Goddam Denny Crum was begging for the job.

[79Warrior]

Buzz left and Wojo took over. Buzz looks like he will be on his way to a third straight NCAA tourney this season coaching the Hokies. Wojo still trying to figure it out. Big year for Wojo imo. Let's hope he has the chops to get it done.

[Cheeks]

5th year.  Made the polls for a short two days and out.  Just not even close to being good enough.  That's just me though, I'd prefer to have high expectations.  I refuse to lower my expectations.  Others may feel differently.

Last year when you were upset you said we would only win 5 Big East games.....we won almost double with 9.  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54996.msg967827#msg967827

You may be right about this team, there is plenty to be concerned with.  It's a guards game, and we have trouble at the guard position currently which leaves me concerned.  It's also very early, let's see what happens over the next few weeks.

[Babybluejeans]

Last year when you were upset you said we would only win 5 Big East games.....we won almost double with 9.  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54996.msg967827#msg967827

You may be right about this team, there is plenty to be concerned with.  It's a guards game, and we have trouble at the guard position currently which leaves me concerned.  It's also very early, let's see what happens over the next few weeks.

Chicos, go spend some time with your family and RE-LAX. All these wojo posts are a little desperate. It's just a game bub.

[Matt Heldt The Milk Man]

Chicos, go spend some time with your family and RE-LAX. All these wojo posts are a little desperate. It's just a game bub.

I agree. It's still early in the year and you just gotta believe the process. They are a good team, and every team has their lows. I would rather MU have their lows early in the year than later, so they have a bunch of momentum when they make the Turny.

[willie warrior]

Buzz left and Wojo took over. Buzz looks like he will be on his way to a third straight NCAA tourney this season coaching the Hokies. Wojo still trying to figure it out. Big year for Wojo imo. Let's hope he has the chops to get it done.

Hope he does, but reality says he likely doesn't.

[theBabyDavid]

Hope he does, but reality says he likely doesn't.

Mazos weighing in is the moral equivalent of the fat lady singing.

It's time to admit: we have now entered the Nomo Wojo Zone.

[tower912]

https://sports.yahoo.com/first-loss-coach-k-wants-duke-fans-calm-hype-criticism-172612502.html


Coach K calling out a certain subset of the Duke fanbase, telling them to lay off RJ Barrett and to accept the fact that 4 freshmen are going to need room to grow.   

[fjm]

https://sports.yahoo.com/first-loss-coach-k-wants-duke-fans-calm-hype-criticism-172612502.html


Coach K calling out a certain subset of the Duke fanbase, telling them to lay off RJ Barrett and to accept the fact that 4 freshmen are going to need room to grow.

I'm just glad MU doesn't have these types of fans.

(OH NO!! CUE "WOJO ISNT COACH K" comments... but what I'm saying is we have new moving parts also that need to get acclimated.)

[dgies9156]

Al came in after MU won only 5 games the year before. I doubt Al had much pressure on him.

Al walked into a situation where the team was on life support. We did not have one of the biggest budgets in college basketball and had only been 10 years removed from our first NCAA appearance. He basically took a mid-major program (and that's being generous) and made us an NCAA powerhouse.

By contrast, Wojo came into a situation with three distinct fanbases -- one that wanted a return to the Al days; a second that had a taste of success in either Tom Crean or the Hillbilly and saw no reason for us not to be very good; and, an apathetic base schooled in the experiences of Coaches Dean and Dukiet. Given that Coach Wojo is a Dukie and knew what it meant to win on a big-stage, two of those three fan bases were excited and expected far more than we have experienced.

Wojo needs to figure this year out and fast. K-State will be a huge game for this team. At home against a quality opponent, we'll see if we can get there. If we stumble now and throughout the season, many of us who care will, as others have said, be lighting a fire under his seat. But that's in April, not now.

[Lennys Tap]

https://sports.yahoo.com/first-loss-coach-k-wants-duke-fans-calm-hype-criticism-172612502.html


Coach K calling out a certain subset of the Duke fanbase, telling them to lay off RJ Barrett and to accept the fact that 4 freshmen are going to need room to grow.

Good for him. Showing a freshman who will be a key player in your march to the National Championship that the coach has your back is smart. If we were #1 this board would (justifiably) ostracize anyone coming down on a freshman 5 games in - as K says, they're spoiled. We're (sadly) not. Still, I agree that with a transfer and two freshmen being among our keys a little patience with the 2018-19 Warriors is appropriate. OTOH, it's year 5, so the natives are understandably a little restless.

[wadesworld]

Good for him. Showing a freshman who will be a key player in your march to the National Championship that the coach has your back is smart. If we were #1 this board would (justifiably) ostracize anyone coming down on a freshman 5 games in - as K says, they're spoiled. We're (sadly) not. Still, I agree that with a transfer and two freshmen being among our keys a little patience with the 2018-19 Warriors is appropriate. OTOH, it's year 5, so the natives are understandably a little restless.

Must've missed the new rankings.

[Cheeks]

Al walked into a situation where the team was on life support. We did not have one of the biggest budgets in college basketball and had only been 10 years removed from our first NCAA appearance. He basically took a mid-major program (and that's being generous) and made us an NCAA powerhouse.

By contrast, Wojo came into a situation with three distinct fanbases -- one that wanted a return to the Al days; a second that had a taste of success in either Tom Crean or the Hillbilly and saw no reason for us not to be very good; and, an apathetic base schooled in the experiences of Coaches Dean and Dukiet. Given that Coach Wojo is a Dukie and knew what it meant to win on a big-stage, two of those three fan bases were excited and expected far more than we have experienced.

Wojo needs to figure this year out and fast. K-State will be a huge game for this team. At home against a quality opponent, we'll see if we can get there. If we stumble now and throughout the season, many of us who care will, as others have said, be lighting a fire under his seat. But that's in April, not now.

Al also walked in with only 150 D1 schools, no Big East, very little television, players rarely transferred, a Wisconsin program that wasn't very good, 15 scholarships, etc  I loved the guy... worked with him for several years.  Best coach we ever had.

350 D1 schools now, television has made also rans into power programs, kids move from schools at breakneck frequency, Wisconsin is a major player for regional talent, independents don't exist any longer, scholarship limits have spread the talent around, etc.

Eras are totally different now.  Al saw that and one of the reasons he got out when he did.

[Lennys Tap]

Must've missed the new rankings.

Go ahead and use the writers or the coaches. I'll stick with Pomeroy - they saw what I saw last year and knew Xavier was a fraud as a #1 seed. Some here couldn't see past the almighty polls. LOL.

[wadesworld]

Go ahead and use the writers or the coaches. I'll stick with Pomeroy - they saw what I saw last year and knew Xavier was a fraud as a #1 seed. Some here couldn't see past the almighty polls. LOL.

A fraud #1 seed? Uhh. They were 28-5 and won the Big East. Talk about LOL. Where would you have seeded Xavier then? Was UVA a fraud #1 seed?

And you'll go with Duke over the undefeated team that beat them on a neutral court while missing their leading returning scorer from last season/second best player? Got it. Don't need an almighty poll. It literally played out on a basketball court. LOL.

[Lennys Tap]

Al also walked in with only 150 D1 schools.

Which of the "new 200" D1 teams are the powerhouses? How are they standing in our way? During Al's era we were surpassed only by UCLA and on equal footing with UNC. We were better than Duke, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas and every other D1 program. Why? Because Al was head and shoulders better than the guys he was going up against. I'll grant you there are more challenges for little catholic schools today than there were in the late 60s and the 70s, but Al (like Jay Wright today) would have been up to the task. No doubt in my mind.

[Lennys Tap]

A fraud #1 seed? Uhh. They were 28-5 and won the Big East. Talk about LOL. Where would you have seeded Xavier then? Was UVA a fraud #1 seed?

I would have given them a #2 because their record demanded it. But as I told you repeatedly as you sang their praises, they were an obvious short in the tournament. Pomeroy and Sagerin's numbers confirmed what I saw with my own 2 eyes - they were a 4 or 5 seed who had lots of luck during the season.

UVA? They've been a fraud seed just about every year under Bennett. Maybe he gets them too tight, maybe they're short athletes, maybe their style doesn't translate to the tournament in 2018 - but anytime as a #1 you get embarrassed by 20 (I guess they would have lost by 60+ if they played at Duke's pace, LOL) by a #16 in your season's most important game - yeah, you're a fraud.

[Lennys Tap]

And you'll go with Duke over the undefeated team that beat them on a neutral court while missing their leading returning scorer from last season/second best player? Got it. Don't need an almighty poll. It literally played out on a basketball court. LOL.

I think Duke would beat Gonzaga 6 times out of 10 now. When those 4 freshmen get 30+ games under their belts in March when the game really matter my guess is that number is more like 8 of 10.

Just my opinion, of course - but that team that was up 25 at halftime vs IU and beat Kentucky by 40+ is (by a pretty wide margin) the most talented team around. Pomeroy and Las Vegas concur.

[wadesworld]

I think Duke would beat Gonzaga 6 times out of 10 now. When those 4 freshmen get 30+ games under their belts in March when the game really matter my guess is that number is more like 8 of 10.

Just my opinion, of course - but that team that was up 25 at halftime vs IU and beat Kentucky by 40+ is (by a pretty wide margin) the most talented team around. Pomeroy and Las Vegas concur.

Fair enough.  If we can ignore actual results and talk about a hypothetical 9 other games two teams will never play, I think we'd beat Indiana 9 out of 10 times and Kansas 9 out of 10 times, so to me Marquette is really the #2 in the country right now.

[Galway Eagle]

Fair enough.  If we can ignore actual results and talk about a hypothetical 9 other games two teams will never play, I think we'd beat Indiana 9 out of 10 times and Kansas 9 out of 10 times, so to me Marquette is really the #2 in the country right now.

SO if 9/10 we beat Depaul last year does that mean that I can say we went to the NCAA tournament last year too?

[wadesworld]

SO if 9/10 we beat Depaul last year does that mean that I can say we went to the NCAA tournament last year too?

I think that's how it works.

But keep in mind, we actually went 1-3 at best, most likely 0-4, against Creighton and Xavier because they didn't have their starting PGs the year we went to the NCAA Tournament, so we actually missed the NCAA Tournament that year.

[Galway Eagle]

I think that's how it works.

But keep in mind, we actually went 1-3 at best, most likely 0-4, against Creighton and Xavier because they didn't have their starting PGs the year we went to the NCAA Tournament, so we actually missed the NCAA Tournament that year.

Not to mention we also lose to villanova now.

But that begs the question do our now wins against depaul and belmont three years ago get us into the tournament?

[skianth16]

I think Duke would beat Gonzaga 6 times out of 10 now. When those 4 freshmen get 30+ games under their belts in March when the game really matter my guess is that number is more like 8 of 10.

Just my opinion, of course - but that team that was up 25 at halftime vs IU and beat Kentucky by 40+ is (by a pretty wide margin) the most talented team around. Pomeroy and Las Vegas concur.

I'm surprised anyone would argue with this. Watching Duke play, it's hard to imagine anyone being able to hang with them by March, even if they have some hiccups along the way.

[wadesworld]

I'm surprised anyone would argue with this. Watching Duke play, it's hard to imagine anyone being able to hang with them by March, even if they have some hiccups along the way.

Well I guess one way someone could argue with it is they saw the (actual) #1 team in the country actually play Duke in a basketball game without their 2nd best player and beat Duke.  That could be one way?