California Wild fires

[tower912]

Now, THIS deserves thoughts and prayers.       Thoughts and prayers to those displaced.    And to those who have lost family and friends out there.    And prayers for some rain to help the overwhelmed firefighters.    Good luck, brothers. 

[MU82]

Nasty effen situation. Feel very badly for those folks, and I hope the firefighters and other emergency personnel get through their days of hard work unscathed.

[forgetful]

Now, THIS deserves thoughts and prayers.       Thoughts and prayers to those displaced.    And to those who have lost family and friends out there.    And prayers for some rain to help the overwhelmed firefighters.    Good luck, brothers.

Agreed on all counts. 

The people risking their lives fighting these fires are true heroes.

[Benny B]

Should we also withhold thoughts & prayers for victims of the fire who burnt only their upper extremities, i.e. those injured by fire-arms?

[tower912]

A reach, but well done.

[Benny B]

A reach, but well done.

Well done, yourself... x2.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Should we also withhold thoughts & prayers for victims of the fire who burnt only their upper extremities, i.e. those injured by fire-arms?

Wacka, wacka, wacka!

[Cheeks]

It has been horrific.  I grew up in Thousand Oaks, tough two weeks.  Family evacuated , etc.  None of it surprising really, big rains last year meant vegetation growth.  Then it dries out, fire when Santa Ana winds hit.  Next part of cycle is mudslides when the rains start back.

Up north really bad.  May end up being 150 dead when all said and done.  Prayers for sure.

[jsglow]

It has been horrific.  I grew up in Thousand Oaks, tough two weeks.  Family evacuated , etc.  None of it surprising really, big rains last year meant vegetation growth.  Then it dries out, fire when Santa Ana winds hit.  Next part of cycle is mudslides when the rains start back.

Up north really bad.  May end up being 150 dead when all said and done.  Prayers for sure.

Prayers for your family.  I sensed that when Oroville dam became a problem that this would be the net result down the road.

[Cheeks]

Prayers for your family.  I sensed that when Oroville dam became a problem that this would be the net result down the road.

Thanks, and to be clear when I say family I don’t mean my immediate family.  We are fine.  However nephews, in-laws, etc have been evacuated.  Fortunately as of yesterday their homes were still standing,  but with smoke damage.

[Cheeks]

If you have 5 minutes, worth the read.  For the firemen here, this will not be surprising.  For the layperson, the speed at which this went from grass fire to apocalyptic event is staggering.

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-camp-fire-tictoc-20181118-story.html

[tower912]

6 months without rain.  The whole area was nothing but kindling.

[forgetful]

6 months without rain.  The whole area was nothing but kindling.

I don't know why we don't just send in the national guard, or 15,000 troops with a bunch of rakes.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Another interesting article:

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2017/12/a-century-of-fire-suppression-is-why-california-is-in-flames/

[Archies Bat]

Another interesting article:

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2017/12/a-century-of-fire-suppression-is-why-california-is-in-flames/

This issue really isn't new.  The major wildfires in Yellowstone about 10-15 years ago were attributed to essentially the same cause.  I think it is easier to suppress than prevent, but when prevention doesn't work the impact is far worse.

We are dealing with similar stuff in my area with sea level rise.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/rising-seas-threaten-norfolk-naval-shipyard-raising-fears-catastrophic-damage-n937396

[brewcity77]

If you have 5 minutes, worth the read.  For the firemen here, this will not be surprising.  For the layperson, the speed at which this went from grass fire to apocalyptic event is staggering.

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-camp-fire-tictoc-20181118-story.html

Personally, I think wildland firefighters must have a bit of a crazy streak, and that comes from someone that works in a field full of people with crazy streaks. I'll go into just about any burning building that's viable, but those wildfires are a whole terrifyingly different animal.

[forgetful]

6 months without rain.  The whole area was nothing but kindling.

In a more serious note.  I wonder how much opportunity there is for more controlled burns to allow the natural growth, burn, rebirth process to occur out there. 

Fires are a natural part of those forest reproductive cycles.  They have evolved to take advantage of that for millennia.  We just need to find a way to introduce the fires in a way that does not impact populated areas.  Obviously way easier said than done.

[Benny B]

In a more serious note.  I wonder how much opportunity there is for more controlled burns to allow the natural growth, burn, rebirth process to occur out there. 

Fires are a natural part of those forest reproductive cycles.  They have evolved to take advantage of that for millennia.  We just need to find a way to introduce the fires in a way that does not impact populated areas.  Obviously way easier said than done.

For starters, how about moving the populated areas out of the forests? 

California is just one big crescent shaped middle finger to Mother Nature.  The very fact that LA exists is criminal, environmentally speaking.   

[buckchuckler]

For starters, how about moving the populated areas out of the forests? 

California is just one big crescent shaped middle finger to Mother Nature.  The very fact that LA exists is criminal, environmentally speaking.

Not as bad as Phoenix... 

[GooooMarquette]

Not as bad as Phoenix...

Lush green golf courses in places like Phoenix and Vegas are an appalling waste of water....

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

In a more serious note.  I wonder how much opportunity there is for more controlled burns to allow the natural growth, burn, rebirth process to occur out there. 

Fires are a natural part of those forest reproductive cycles.  They have evolved to take advantage of that for millennia.  We just need to find a way to introduce the fires in a way that does not impact populated areas.  Obviously way easier said than done.

What Benny B said.  I had read they want to do controlled burns but the problem with controlled burns is that it's too populated so it's too risky.

[D'Lo Brown]

How about we let the experts (scientists, firefighters, forest service, etc) do their jobs, do their research, and then provide the funding and support they need for the next steps? The politicization of the environment is just sick. The story does not need to be shifted around so that the end result goes in the politically preferred direction. Too many brainless fools gumming up the whole process, focusing on coming out ahead today and plundering the future of the planet in the process.

Note: I both live in California and am also completely clueless on the solutions. We need to support the real experts, and not just the windbags.

[tower912]

Both/and, not either/or.

[Benny B]

How about we let the experts (scientists, firefighters, forest service, etc) do their jobs, do their research, and then provide the funding and support they need for the next steps? The politicization of the environment is just sick. The story does not need to be shifted around so that the end result goes in the politically preferred direction. Too many brainless fools gumming up the whole process, focusing on coming out ahead today and plundering the future of the planet in the process.

Note: I both live in California and am also completely clueless on the solutions. We need to support the real experts, and not just the windbags.

Is it really politicized?  Pro-environmental issues are usually associated with left-leaning politics, yet one of our most left-leaning states, if not the most, is perhaps the greatest environmental offender in North America.  California is more than eager to tell you they're the 2nd lowest state in CO2 emissions per capita, but when it comes to CO2 emissions per square mile, they rank 28th, just behind Michigan and Missouri (for reference, Wisconsin is 23rd, Illinois 41st, Minnesota 18th).  Apparently, their answer to being a carbon rock star is to cram more people into smaller areas; probably not a coincidence then that all the environmentalist posers out west will tell you that a dense population is actually good for the environment, all the while ignoring the data on heat islands and urban sprawl which speak otherwise.

And hypocrisy knows not the boundaries of political divides... Texas is an even worse offender than California by just about every measure.  Moreover, what does it say when the primary adversary to conservation call themselves conservatives?!?  I'm no etymologist, but pretty sure the old Roman explanation is bvllvs shiitvs (or ano intra cranium for the Latin scholars).

Then again, politics is all about hypocrisy, so maybe you are correct.  Environment is politicized.


Moral of Story: Mother Nature is getting raped by both sides of the aisle... the only difference is one side has no regard for the victim and the other side simply forgets there was ever a victim at all.

[Jockey]

Is it really politicized?  Pro-environmental issues are usually associated with left-leaning politics, yet one of our most left-leaning states, if not the most, is perhaps the greatest environmental offender in North America.  California is more than eager to tell you they're the 2nd lowest state in CO2 emissions per capita, but when it comes to CO2 emissions per square mile, they rank 28th, just behind Michigan and Missouri (for reference, Wisconsin is 23rd, Illinois 41st, Minnesota 18th).  Apparently, their answer to being a carbon rock star is to cram more people into smaller areas; probably not a coincidence then that all the environmentalist posers out west will tell you that a dense population is actually good for the environment, all the while ignoring the data on heat islands and urban sprawl which speak otherwise.

This post is utter nonsense.

Whoopie - California - with 40 MILLION people - does more damage to the environment than Wyoming - which has as many people as Milwaukee.

Must've been a real learned genius to figure that one out.