NFL 2018-19 2.0

[CreightonWarrior]

So Mark Murphy will make the next hire. Has a Packers team president ever been this involved in the football operation before?

I'm not crazy about this.

[Pakuni]

Am I crazy to think it would be a great idea for the Packers to retain Mike Pettine as DC, hire Kliff Kingsburry as OC, and then find a "team manager" HC who handles the in-game decision making(but not play calling), game prep, etc and coaches the Special Teams?

I think it's much harder to find an HC who can run the offense along with everything else than to find a talent OC and a talent HC.

I think the problem with this is hiring a head coach and then 1) telling him who his coordinators are going to be and 2) giving him no say over the offensive and defensive play calling.
No coach worth having is going to want the job under that structure.

[mu03eng]

I think the problem with this is hiring a head coach and then 1) telling him who his coordinators are going to be and 2) giving him no say over the offensive and defensive play calling.
No coach worth having is going to want the job under that structure.

Yeah probably put things out of order, I absolutely want to keep Pettine, but I'm fine with the HC hiring the OC as long as it's a progressive offense. Kliff Kingsbury is an example but not necessarily required.

What I would like to avoid is an HC/OC having to learn how to call plays on the job (ala Nagy with the Bears this year).

[RJax55]

Am I crazy to think it would be a great idea for the Packers to retain Mike Pettine as DC, hire Kliff Kingsburry as OC, and then find a "team manager" HC who handles the in-game decision making(but not play calling), game prep, etc and coaches the Special Teams?

I think it's much harder to find an HC who can run the offense along with everything else than to find a talent OC and a talent HC.

I don't think its crazy to have a HC like that. That's basically John Harbaugh in Baltimore and he's been a successful coach. However, I think the HC has to hire his own coordinators and determine the style/direction of those units.

[DegenerateDish]

Why? Take the names out of it, how is an OC that runs the offense, DC that runs the defense and an HC that manages all of it + in-game decisions a unique power structure in the NFL?

This setup is just asking for trouble, especially with the the most cerebral QB perhaps ever. No worthwhile candidate for any of these positions would agree to this. The person in power (HC) is going to want to hire his own people, structure game plans, lead the culture in the locker room and off the field. Under your proposal, you'd be better off hiring Dave Toub and letting him bring in his own guys as OC and DC. I actually still firmly believe Toub would be a hell of a head coach.

[Pakuni]

I don't think its crazy to have a HC like that. That's basically John Harbaugh in Baltimore and he's been a successful coach. However, I think the HC has to hire his own coordinators and determine the style/direction of those units.

Right. Some really good coaches (Pete Carroll also comes to mind) aren't involved in the playcalling on either side of the ball, but you've got to let the HC pick his coordinators and offensive/defensive philosophies.
Certainly the Packers can tell their next head coach they want him to keep Pettine (the Bears seemed to have done that with Nagy/Fangio), but it's ultimately got to be the head man's call.

[GGGG]

Nope, the Packers essentially have a team owner for the first time ever. After Lombardi, all football roles reported to the GM with the GM reporting to the board and Team president. Once TT was ousted (2 years too late IMO) the board reworked the structure in conjunction with Murphy to make all major football roles (GM, HC, and director of football operations) report to the president.

That is not accurate.   Bart Starr and Forest Gregg reported directly to the team President who reported to the Board.  The concept of the coach, reporting to the GM, reporting to the President didn't occur until Ron Wolf made that a condition of him accepting the GM job with the Packers - total control of all football operations.

And the GM *never* reported to the Board.  The only person reporting to the Board was the President, and oftentimes the President was a part time role accepted by a board member.  (Judge Robert Parins was the first full time President in the 1980s.)

Time will tell if going back to the previous model is a good idea

[GGGG]

Right. Some really good coaches (Pete Carroll also comes to mind) aren't involved in the playcalling on either side of the ball, but you've got to let the HC pick his coordinators and offensive/defensive philosophies.
Certainly the Packers can tell their next head coach they want him to keep Pettine (the Bears seemed to have done that with Nagy/Fangio), but it's ultimately got to be the head man's call.

Yeah Pettine has been fine, but he's hardly irreplaceable. 

[GB Warrior]

If your new coach can tolerate a 3-4, maybe you ride with Pettine. He's not Fangio, though. Most of the guys under contract (Daniels, Clark, Perry, CBs) could probably convert back to a 4-3. If we even want Perry back.

[MU82]

Somebody told me they heard that Pat Fitzgerald is a candidate. Is that really possible?

[GB Warrior]

Somebody told me they heard that Pat Fitzgerald is a candidate. Is that really possible?

Murphy hired him at Northwestern. Would not be shocked if he's interviewed at minimum

[RJax55]

Somebody told me they heard that Pat Fitzgerald is a candidate. Is that really possible?

As a Bears fan, I truly hope that's the case.

[MU82]

It would be interesting.

None of us can know if he'd be a good NFL coach or a bad one, but he's always seemed like the ultimate rah-rah college type. Doesn't mean he couldn't adjust, I spose.

[GGGG]

It would be interesting.

None of us can know if he'd be a good NFL coach or a bad one, but he's always seemed like the ultimate rah-rah college type. Doesn't mean he couldn't adjust, I spose.

I really doubt that it will happen for a multitude of reasons. 

[RJax55]

It would be interesting.

None of us can know if he'd be a good NFL coach or a bad one, but he's always seemed like the ultimate rah-rah college type. Doesn't mean he couldn't adjust, I spose.

Beyond the rah-rah stuff, he would be coming from a program that has very little pressure and expectations, to the limelight of the NFL. And, not just some job, the Packers gig. Different world from Evanston.

[Lennys Tap]

None of us can know if he'd be a good NFL coach or a bad one, but he's always seemed like the ultimate rah-rah college type.

Pete Carroll?

[JWags85]

Pete Carroll?

USC is as close to an NFL job as you can get in college. Bright lights of a major market, media attention and pressure that is not completely biased like a college town, distractions and big budgets, win now or you’re done mentality.  (Well it was before they got complacent with a joke like Helton).

Beyond the rah-rah stuff, he would be coming from a program that has very little pressure and expectations, to the limelight of the NFL. And, not just some job, the Packers gig. Different world from Evanston.

Totally agree. It’s one thing to grab a coach from a top tier program with pressure, getting one from somewhere like NW is a diff story. I think Fitz is a good coach, but he’s never been better than 10-3 and is essentially a 7-5 career coach, yet is revered and has the job as long as he wants provided he doesn’t start stringing together sub .500 seasons. He can stay on this track and they will build a statue of him. Other places 10-3 gets you fired. That’s the kind of pressure cooker than resembles the NFL mentality.

[GGGG]

USC is as close to an NFL job as you can get in college. Bright lights of a major market, media attention and pressure that is not completely biased like a college town, distractions and big budgets, win now or you’re done mentality.  (Well it was before they got complacent with a joke like Helton).

Not only that but Pete Carroll was an NFL coordinator (very successful one at that) and a head coach (somewhat successful) before he even went to USC.  He was an "NFL guy" who went to coach in college.

(Carroll was head coach of the Jets but was fired after one season and replaced with Rich Kotite because the owner was old and wanted to win now.  Update: he did not win now and he died.)

[Lennys Tap]

Agree on all that was said, but the fact remains that Pete Carroll went from being one of the most rah rah coaches in college football to being the most rah rah coach in the NFL. And was very successful in both. If "rah rah" is your legit personality (as with Carroll) it can work in college or the pros.

[MU82]

Agree on all that was said, but the fact remains that Pete Carroll went from being one of the most rah rah coaches in college football to being the most rah rah coach in the NFL. And was very successful in both. If "rah rah" is your legit personality (as with Carroll) it can work in college or the pros.

This is legit ... but so is what JWags and RJax said about it being an incredible leap from the relatively care-free life as the coach at Northwestern and the pressure-cooker of Green Bay.

Northwestern is more of a national school than Chicago school; most Chicago sports fans I knew -- and I knew a LOT of them -- didn't give a rat's rump about football or basketball there. Have a winning record and make a bowl game, and everybody who actually does care is happy.

Plus, LeBron Aaron has to really like the next guy.

[wadesworld]

Is Green Bay really that much of a "pressure cooker?"  It's about as far from it as you can get in professional sports, from what I've witnessed.  Mac hung around for about 4 seasons too long.  Dom Capers same story.  I liked Ted, but most people thought he was around for 3 seasons too long.  It's Green Bay, Wisconsin, which is about as far from NYC, NY as you can possibly come.  I'm sure Aaron Rodgers can be tough to coach.  I'm also sure he's played for one coach in his 13 seasons in the NFL and made the guy look like a genius for about 12 of those seasons.  Coach killer?  More like made his coach a crap ton of money for him.

[mu03eng]

Pat Fitzgerald is Urban Meyer without the success, I want nothing to do with him as HC in Green Bay.

[Pakuni]

Pat Fitzgerald is Urban Meyer without the success, I want nothing to do with him as HC in Green Bay.

I can't think of much more different guys, at least among college football coaches.
Urban has a long history of recruiting/protecting shady kids (and assistant coaches, it seems). I can't recall any significant off-field issues at Northwestern under Fitzgerald's tenure.
Urban is on offensive guy. Fitzgerald comes from the defensive side of the ball.
Urban pulls four- and five-star recruits seemingly at will. Has Fitzgerald ever landed a top 100 kid?
Urban's been a bit of a vagabond, working as HC at four schools since 2001 and numerous stops as an assistant before that. Fitzgerald has been at Northwestern since 2001 and, by all accounts, declined multiple interview opportunities elsewhere.

I don't think Fitzgerald is an NFL coach. But he's nothing like Urban Meyer.

[GGGG]

Is Green Bay really that much of a "pressure cooker?"  It's about as far from it as you can get in professional sports, from what I've witnessed.  Mac hung around for about 4 seasons too long.  Dom Capers same story.  I liked Ted, but most people thought he was around for 3 seasons too long.  It's Green Bay, Wisconsin, which is about as far from NYC, NY as you can possibly come.  I'm sure Aaron Rodgers can be tough to coach.  I'm also sure he's played for one coach in his 13 seasons in the NFL and made the guy look like a genius for about 12 of those seasons.  Coach killer?  More like made his coach a crap ton of money for him.

Saying that Mac stuck around for four seasons too long, which means you think he should have been let go after getting to a conference championship game and prior to another championship game appearance, is nonsensical.  No NFL team is going to do that.

[GGGG]

Agree on all that was said, but the fact remains that Pete Carroll went from being one of the most rah rah coaches in college football to being the most rah rah coach in the NFL. And was very successful in both. If "rah rah" is your legit personality (as with Carroll) it can work in college or the pros.

The only way it would work with Fitzgerald is if he lays out a very compelling case for who would be his offensive coordinator and how that would work in the NFL. 

And I think Fitzgerald has accomplished *a lot* at Northwestern considering the history and limitations of the program.  I like Urban Meyer, but I think Fitzgerald has been just as accomplished.