Anonymous eagle hits em where it stings

[rocket surgeon]

If I had the energy, I'd mosey on over to the vermin version of hangin at the herbie and see their heads explode over this article on MOST of the top  Wisconsin ballers saying nyet to them and either coming to MU or going elsewhere...the eagle shoots down "professional reporter" Jeff Goodwin who states for a "fact" that most of the good wisco ballers shun MU for the kohl hole??


https://www.anonymouseagle.com/platform/amp/2018/11/2/18056486/marquette-golden-eagles-wisconsin-state-high-school-recruiting-prospects-jeff-goodman-big-east

[We R Final Four]

Great job Sam!

[jsglow]

I hate it when the math blows up a crap argument!   

[StillAWarrior]

That is outstanding.

[brewcity77]

Thought the same when I read the article. Glad someone took time to debunk the BS.

[TedBaxter]

If I had the energy, I'd mosey on over to the vermin version of hangin at the herbie and see their heads explode over this article on MOST of the top  Wisconsin ballers saying nyet to them and either coming to MU or going elsewhere...the eagle shoots down "professional reporter" Jeff Goodwin who states for a "fact" that most of the good wisco ballers shun MU for the kohl hole??


https://www.anonymouseagle.com/platform/amp/2018/11/2/18056486/marquette-golden-eagles-wisconsin-state-high-school-recruiting-prospects-jeff-goodman-big-east

The problem you have is that Jeff Goodman was polling Big East coaches and administrators on the Big East schools positives and negatives and the quote below was from a Big East assistant and not Jeff Goodman.

The knock: "Not a ton of kids in Wisconsin, and the ones that do come out of there want to go to Wisconsin and not Marquette. Other than that, it's one of the more underrated jobs in the league ... and maybe in the entire country." – Big East assistant

[Loose Cannon]

The problem you have is that Jeff Goodman was polling Big East coaches and administrators on the Big East schools positives and negatives and the quote below was from a Big East assistant and not Jeff Goodman.

The knock: "Not a ton of kids in Wisconsin, and the ones that do come out of there want to go to Wisconsin and not Marquette. Other than that, it's one of the more underrated jobs in the league ... and maybe in the entire country." – Big East assistant

Thanks for Clarifying.

[barfolomew]

I love me some AE but that article was a WHOLE lot of words to debunk the incorrect opinion of one dude.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

The problem you have is that Jeff Goodman was polling Big East coaches and administrators on the Big East schools positives and negatives and the quote below was from a Big East assistant and not Jeff Goodman.

The knock: "Not a ton of kids in Wisconsin, and the ones that do come out of there want to go to Wisconsin and not Marquette. Other than that, it's one of the more underrated jobs in the league ... and maybe in the entire country." – Big East assistant

IIRC the B1G version had a B1G assistant basically said the same thing about all the best players wanting to go to Wisconsin.  So there is a disconnect between perception and reality.

Also, recruiting base seems to be narrowly defined as "in state."  Marquette is closer to Chicago than it is to much of Wisconsin.

The current Marquette roster has 3 WI kids and 6 more from neighboring states.  That tells me Marquette does a fine job recruiting in the Midwest, and can sprinkle in kids from outside of the Midwest. 

[GGGG]

I love me some AE but that article was a WHOLE lot of words to debunk the incorrect opinion of one dude.

And makes Marquette fans seem extra sensitive.

[brewcity77]

And makes Marquette fans seem extra sensitive.

Personally, it irritates me because it's both false and often-repeated. As I mentioned in the other thread, the reality is most elite kids don't dream of Marquette or Wisconsin, they dream of Duke or Kentucky. But when those options aren't available, they dream of the NBA and look at the best avenues of getting there.

The reality is that Marquette has proven to be a better avenue than UW-Madison and thus attracted more of the top in-state recruits. Another reality is schools like Oregon, Michigan State, Maryland, and Iowa State are better avenues than UW-Madison and have also attracted top recruits over the state school.

Wisconsin has done a great job of building a system and program. But for the most part, Bo (and now Gard) did that not by landing the top recruits in the state, they did it by identifying players who best fit their system and letting them get old. The majority of kids that grow up "dreaming of Wisconsin" are the kids that are non-D1 scholarship players and end up walking on. It isn't the top-100 kids that the article indicates.

[Osiris]

The problem you have is that Jeff Goodman was polling Big East coaches and administrators on the Big East schools positives and negatives and the quote below was from a Big East assistant and not Jeff Goodman.

The knock: "Not a ton of kids in Wisconsin, and the ones that do come out of there want to go to Wisconsin and not Marquette. Other than that, it's one of the more underrated jobs in the league ... and maybe in the entire country." – Big East assistant

It's still a problem for Goodman.  He didn't say it, but he used it without vetting the veracity of the statement.  Good journalism is hard, that's why virtually no one practices it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It's still a problem for Goodman.  He didn't say it, but he used it without vetting the veracity of the statement.  Good journalism is hard, that's why virtually no one practices it.

It's a survey. Goodman's job here is to record the results. There is nothing wrong with Goodman's reporting here.

[Pakuni]

It's a survey. Goodman's job here is to record the results. There is nothing wrong with Goodman's reporting here.

Well, there sort of is, though. At least if you want to label what Goodman has done here as "reporting."
If he were reporting here, Goodman's job wouldn't simply be regurgitating what others tell him, especially when what he's being told can easily be proved false. His job would be to discern the truth as best he can and publish it.
Certainly we wouldn't find it acceptable if some news reporter simply transcribed incorrect statements from a political figure without checking into the veracity of it. And if said news reporter did that, we wouldn't be saying there's nothing wrong with it.
But really, Goodman isn't reporting here. He's just doing his best to fill his daily quota of content.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Well, there sort of is, though. At least if you want to label what Goodman has done here as "reporting."
If he were reporting here, Goodman's job wouldn't simply be regurgitating what others tell him, especially when what he's being told can easily be proved false. His job would be to discern the truth as best he can and publish it.
Certainly we wouldn't find it acceptable if some news reporter simply transcribed incorrect statements from a political figure without checking into the veracity of it. And if said news reporter did that, we wouldn't be saying there's nothing wrong with it.
But really, Goodman isn't reporting here. He's just doing his best to fill his daily quota of content.

Look at the article. Other than the introduction Goodman doesn't have any of his own words here. The point of the article is to survey coaches in the conference and get their perspectives. That perspective is real. Reporting on a real perspective in the context of this article is accurate reporting.

[skianth16]

It's a survey. Goodman's job here is to record the results. There is nothing wrong with Goodman's reporting here.

Agreed. Repeating a quote is just that. Nothing to see here.

[Pakuni]

Look at the article. Other than the introduction Goodman doesn't have any of his own words here. The point of the article is to survey coaches in the conference and get their perspectives. That perspective is real. Reporting on a real perspective in the context of this article is accurate reporting.

I suppose we're defining "reporting" differently.
A favorite journalism quote:
"If someone says it's raining and another person says it's dry, it's not your job as a journalist to quote them both. Your job is to look out the window. find out which is true, and report THAT."

In this case, Goodman didn't bother to look out the window. If you want to call what Goodman did generating content, that's fine. No complaints. In today's environment, and especially with an upstart like Stadium, that's necessary.
But it definitely wasn't reporting.

[Nukem2]

Yeah, it's just a puff piece re the BE.

[MU82]

It's a survey. Goodman's job here is to record the results. There is nothing wrong with Goodman's reporting here.

I understand what you're saying here, TAMU. But I do think that even in a piece like this, if something is offered up that is clearly untrue, better reporting would include pointing it out. It wouldn't have taken much for Goodman to add, perhaps even parenthetically something like:

(In fact, few of the state's top players of the past decade ended up at Wisconsin, and far more ended up at Marquette.)

Of course, Goodman would have had to have either known that or had reason to suspect that the assistant coach didn't know what he was talking about.

So I'm not "mad" at Goodman for not pointing out the coach's BS, but truly good reporting would have meant not just taking a coach at his word for a "fact" that's fairly easy to verify.

I mean, if the same assistant coach had said, "DePaul's the Big East program that's really been doing well," should the reporter just let that slide because an assistant coach said it?

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Isn't Goodman a Buzz cronie? Or am I thinking of someone else.

[wadesworld]

The article is about how coaches view programs. If a coach views MU's struggle as UW being the destination school for WI kids, there is absolutely nothing wrong in reporting what that coach thinks.

If we want to talk about quoting people's thoughts on the weather it'd be like writing an article about how Wisconsinites feel about the fall weather and quoting one person who says it's been a great fall and another who says it's a terrible fall. That's not bad reporting. It's reporting what someone is writing on.

The coach feels that UW makes it more difficult for MU to land the top in state talent. Goodman isn't writing on what the reality is. He's writing on what coaches think of the program.

[Pakuni]

Isn't Goodman a Buzz cronie? Or am I thinking of someone else.

He was the author of the prescient "Buzz left Marquette because the new Big East will be bad" article.
Nice call, guys.

[Osiris]

Well, there sort of is, though. At least if you want to label what Goodman has done here as "reporting."
If he were reporting here, Goodman's job wouldn't simply be regurgitating what others tell him, especially when what he's being told can easily be proved false. His job would be to discern the truth as best he can and publish it.
Certainly we wouldn't find it acceptable if some news reporter simply transcribed incorrect statements from a political figure without checking into the veracity of it. And if said news reporter did that, we wouldn't be saying there's nothing wrong with it.
But really, Goodman isn't reporting here. He's just doing his best to fill his daily quota of content.

Precisely.  Completely appropriate to include quotes on subjective matters even if they aren't widely held opinions.  If the source had said, "I think MU's recruiting is dreadful."  Fair game.  I don't agree with that but it's not Goodman's job to weigh in on that opinion.  However if the quote is a measurable statement of fact asserted by the source it's still ok to include the quote but including data demonstrating its lack of veracity would be better reporting.  Best practice would have been to talk to other sources and find a more substantiated "knock" to include in the story.   Admittedly that's more work and why I stand by my 'good journalism is hard' comment.

[THRILLHO]

The article is about how coaches view programs. If a coach views MU's struggle as UW being the destination school for WI kids, there is absolutely nothing wrong in reporting what that coach thinks.

If we want to talk about quoting people's thoughts on the weather it'd be like writing an article about how Wisconsinites feel about the fall weather and quoting one person who says it's been a great fall and another who says it's a terrible fall. That's not bad reporting. It's reporting what someone is writing on.

The coach feels that UW makes it more difficult for MU to land the top in state talent. Goodman isn't writing on what the reality is. He's writing on what coaches think of the program.

And yet, if an opposing coach said something like, "Marquette is not a top tier job because of the low gravity of their Moon-based home arena," it would be irresponsible of a journalist to run that quote without clarifying that it's not true. Even if it's just to say "Marquette must deal with the perception that it plays home games on the moon." Didn't we learn anything from the run-up to the Iraq war?

[wadesworld]

And yet, if an opposing coach said something like, "Marquette is not a top tier job because of the low gravity of their Moon-based home arena," it would be irresponsible of a journalist to run that quote without clarifying that it's not true. Even if it's just to say "Marquette must deal with the perception that it plays home games on the moon." Didn't we learn anything from the run-up to the Iraq war?

The piece isn't for accuracy. It's to share the opinion of coaches in the league. You don't go and enter your own comments on a coach's thoughts.